:00:00. > :00:07.The new bridge across the Forth won't be ready until next summer.
:00:08. > :00:30.Back in January, Nicola Sturgeon told the Scottish Parliament
:00:31. > :00:33.the Queensferry crossing would be complete by the end of this year.
:00:34. > :00:37.But it seems bad weather has blown that timetable apart.
:00:38. > :00:42.And how long has the Government known this inconvenient fact?
:00:43. > :00:45.Scotland's health service is target-driven.
:00:46. > :00:50.The aim of course - to improve patient care.
:00:51. > :00:52.But do those targets hinder and not help treatment in our hospitals?
:00:53. > :00:57.And does membership of the European Union stop this
:00:58. > :00:59.country from playing a full role in the world?
:01:00. > :01:14.So, now we know, it's going to open six months later than promised.
:01:15. > :01:16.The Queensferry Crossing was supposed to be carrying traffic
:01:17. > :01:23.The latest estimate for cutting the ribbon is now May 2017.
:01:24. > :01:27.The Cabinet Secretary for the economy, Keith Brown,
:01:28. > :01:30.told MSPs today the six-month delay is caused by just over three
:01:31. > :01:32.weeks of bad weather last month and in April.
:01:33. > :01:45.First, this report from Huw Williams.
:01:46. > :01:57.It is an engineering marvel. It will promote Scotland's economic growth.
:01:58. > :02:03.And it is beautiful. Up until today it was going to be delivered on time
:02:04. > :02:09.and on budget, open by December this year. The First Minister said so in
:02:10. > :02:14.Parliament. We will continue strong investment in infrastructure. By the
:02:15. > :02:19.end of this year the new Queensbury Crossing will be completed. The SNP
:02:20. > :02:23.manifesto said so at the time of the Scottish elections. Mind you, that
:02:24. > :02:30.was because the project team were saying so as well. We have had a
:02:31. > :02:35.period similar to last year in September and October meaning that
:02:36. > :02:39.we can get going on the dead lifting very effectively and I think we will
:02:40. > :02:46.be able to complete on time, the end of 2016. But not any more. The
:02:47. > :02:52.impact of the weather in April and May was severe. The bridge will not
:02:53. > :03:00.be open before December. -- by December. Due to the combined effect
:03:01. > :03:07.of the time lost in these two months it can no longer delivered the
:03:08. > :03:12.target of the end of 2016. The contractual date for completion of
:03:13. > :03:18.the bridge is June 20 17. December 2016 was a target date that would
:03:19. > :03:21.have been six months early. Confirmation came after a
:03:22. > :03:29.conservative MSP asked about the project. What guarantee can he give
:03:30. > :03:35.for the completion in mid-May? Is this weather dependent, can we have
:03:36. > :03:43.more confidence about this than the last guarantee? How on earth does 25
:03:44. > :03:50.days lost to weather in April and May equate to a 180 delay in opening
:03:51. > :03:56.the bridge? Does he take us for fools? From the contractor 's
:03:57. > :04:00.disappointment and determination. A large number of people working on
:04:01. > :04:05.the bridge are local to the area. It is very close to our hearts, we
:04:06. > :04:10.appreciate how important it is and every effort has gone into achieving
:04:11. > :04:16.our target of the end of the year and every effort will go into
:04:17. > :04:20.ensuring we get the bridge opens soon as we can. It turns out the
:04:21. > :04:25.timescale all depends on what date you count, the ambition to open the
:04:26. > :04:38.bridge early or what is written in the contract? The original date was
:04:39. > :04:42.June 2017. They were able to bring forward the proposed opening date to
:04:43. > :04:51.December. Because of time lost to the weather they have had to push
:04:52. > :04:57.that back to May 2017. It may be of course that delays now we'll all be
:04:58. > :05:08.forgiven and forgotten once this bridge is open. -- will all.
:05:09. > :05:10.Well, just before we came on air, Keith Brown came
:05:11. > :05:15.I began by asking him how 25 days of bad weather have caused a four
:05:16. > :05:26.There are number of reasons, first of all those 25 days themselves can
:05:27. > :05:32.have knock-on effects. If you can't do a deck left on a particular day
:05:33. > :05:35.that can add two more days of delay because there are things you have to
:05:36. > :05:40.do to see through a deck lift. The deck lifting process was be -- was
:05:41. > :05:47.meant to be from September until September. If you move that to the
:05:48. > :05:52.autumn to winter months that causes further delays. The tarmac king and
:05:53. > :05:59.waterproofing during the winter months takes longer. If the
:06:00. > :06:03.timetable was so fluid and weather dependent, why did Nicola Sturgeon
:06:04. > :06:07.tell the Scottish Parliament on the 5th of January, by the end of this
:06:08. > :06:16.year the new Queensbury Crossing will be completed? You say it was
:06:17. > :06:22.fluid, I would say it was a built-in contingency, 25% of the time, a full
:06:23. > :06:32.year, which was largely used up last year in the prolonged wet weather.
:06:33. > :06:35.The contingency came into this year and to have the period of bad
:06:36. > :06:40.weather in April and May, it might not be obvious to the public but
:06:41. > :06:46.when you are the top of 200 foot bridge... Nicola Sturgeon didn't
:06:47. > :06:52.spell out any contingency, it was, this will be completed. That was
:06:53. > :06:56.exactly the message we had from the contractor, they believed it was
:06:57. > :07:04.possible up until May to finish by the end of the year. In April and
:07:05. > :07:07.May we had the 12 and the 13 days lost which had the knock-on effect.
:07:08. > :07:12.This will be finished by its contracted date and will not cost
:07:13. > :07:18.the Scottish taxpayer a penny more because of the additional time
:07:19. > :07:22.taking to complete it. It certainly won't be finished by the date Nicola
:07:23. > :07:27.Sturgeon said it would be finished on. When did you know first that
:07:28. > :07:35.this timescale would not be met, was it before the election? No. We were
:07:36. > :07:39.advised at the end of May by transport Scotland, they had a worry
:07:40. > :07:43.it might not be possible to finish by the end of the year. The
:07:44. > :07:48.contractor finished a report that came back to ministers on the 1st of
:07:49. > :07:52.June, when we got the official confirmation that this would take
:07:53. > :07:56.longer than the end of the year. It is very important that in all of the
:07:57. > :08:01.things we have done to get this done as quickly as possible we have
:08:02. > :08:05.regard to safety and that has been factored into the contract. This is
:08:06. > :08:10.a huge contract, more than ?1 billion, you have a huge team of
:08:11. > :08:15.civil servants, transport Scotland talking to the contractors to keep
:08:16. > :08:20.track of progress, the key questions that you work, was it on-time and on
:08:21. > :08:28.budget? Word then no discussions in to give any indications there would
:08:29. > :08:34.be a problem? -- were there no. Not only were the conversations right
:08:35. > :08:38.through this process with transport Scotland and the contractors, this
:08:39. > :08:43.had been reported to Parliament and the media. It was fairly clear last
:08:44. > :08:48.year that they would be a substantial trial because of the
:08:49. > :08:53.weather. This year, we have had far more days lost in April and May, and
:08:54. > :08:57.with the less contingency left to do this it is not possible to complete
:08:58. > :09:04.by the end of the year. It is ?1 billion project, it it is well below
:09:05. > :09:09.budget, and that remains the case even with this later than expected
:09:10. > :09:14.delivery. Are you in barrister at how this looks? The delay occurs, it
:09:15. > :09:20.is announced after the Scottish election. You put it in the SNP
:09:21. > :09:31.manifesto on page three, the Queensbury Crossing is on time and
:09:32. > :09:44.on budget. Not the game, shot and the leg, RUSI barrister? -- I am not
:09:45. > :09:50.embarrassed, I am disappointed. If we remember why that target was
:09:51. > :09:58.first put in place, back in 2005-6, people were expecting because of the
:09:59. > :10:12.deteriorating impact of the cables on the Forth Road Bridge... In
:10:13. > :10:18.September 2017... We have had the de Hu eyes Asian of the cables despite
:10:19. > :10:27.that we maintained we wanted to get this finished by the end of this
:10:28. > :10:30.year. -- we have had the dehumidisation.
:10:31. > :10:33.Is an obsession with targets giving the health service a headache?
:10:34. > :10:35.Hospital staff across the country are required to meet
:10:36. > :10:37.dozens of targets, on everything from A waiting times
:10:38. > :10:40.But there are growing calls for a rethink,
:10:41. > :10:43.for a more mature approach to NHS targets.
:10:44. > :10:45.Among those calling for change is the Royal
:10:46. > :10:51.Their director, Theresa Fyffe, is with me now.
:10:52. > :10:59.What is wrong with the targets culture and the targets we have in
:11:00. > :11:02.the health service? In our discussions with stakeholders
:11:03. > :11:08.everybody told us the new landscape of targets on outcomes, frameworks,
:11:09. > :11:12.priorities are actually cluttering up the work and die looting the
:11:13. > :11:17.effort they want to bring. When targets came in they were a reaction
:11:18. > :11:26.to people being concerned about for example waiting times for treatment.
:11:27. > :11:30.But they are very blunt tools and they are processed targets, many of
:11:31. > :11:34.them, and many of them are in the acute services that we have moved to
:11:35. > :11:42.a different way of working within Health and Social Care Act. Targets
:11:43. > :11:54.are designed to make sure the health service works. -- within health and
:11:55. > :11:58.social care. Outcomes will not give you a tangible measure of how you
:11:59. > :12:02.are getting there. You will need indicators and measures that help
:12:03. > :12:08.you determine whether the success of what you are trying to achieve,
:12:09. > :12:13.whether the investment has been right. Too many of those targets are
:12:14. > :12:18.processed targets so for example waiting time targets or about access
:12:19. > :12:22.to health care they don't underpin your right to health, they only said
:12:23. > :12:27.you will get access to health care, so it doesn't tell you anything
:12:28. > :12:32.about the quality of your care... Maybe not but we know that before
:12:33. > :12:36.they were introduced people were waiting months and months, some much
:12:37. > :12:44.longer than others. Our report is not recommending to go back to those
:12:45. > :12:47.bad old days, it is about the need for measurement and accountability,
:12:48. > :12:51.we need a way to measure where we are going, a third of the Scottish
:12:52. > :12:55.budget is spent on health so it is right to know that we said it is
:12:56. > :13:01.time for a new way of doing measurement. Some of those measures
:13:02. > :13:10.could be more to look that programme will towards local communities,
:13:11. > :13:13.empowering people to do this. -- could be more towards local
:13:14. > :13:17.communities. We know it will not be easy and we know the Scottish
:13:18. > :13:26.Government announced they want to do that and we hope that our principles
:13:27. > :13:29.will shape that work. We have considerable expertise out there, we
:13:30. > :13:33.have expertise among the professionals and we have a user
:13:34. > :13:39.experience we should tap into. I believe it is not within our gift to
:13:40. > :13:43.deliver a new set of measures for our health and well-being services.
:13:44. > :13:50.Targets were perhaps the right thing to do at the time but now is the
:13:51. > :13:53.time to stop and look and think, de clutter the landscape and get much
:13:54. > :13:57.more about where people need to be as well as where we need
:13:58. > :14:07.accountability and other measures. How do we shift to an NHS that fixes
:14:08. > :14:10.problems in the first case? And that is the reason we need to
:14:11. > :14:15.move from the targets which are processed, access target because
:14:16. > :14:19.they are based on acute care and they don't reflect the shift we are
:14:20. > :14:26.trying to go towards- or community care, enabling people to not get ill
:14:27. > :14:30.in the first race. That is exactly where we need to go and those
:14:31. > :14:37.measures need to reflect those measures and not the measures that
:14:38. > :14:42.take us back to, had I have had access to the treatment, that would
:14:43. > :14:47.have improved my health and well-being. Thank you rematch. --
:14:48. > :14:50.thank you very much. Well, another day, another
:14:51. > :14:51.EU referendum debate. Today the focus was on workers
:14:52. > :14:54.rights and the international case for leaving what one
:14:55. > :14:56.Brexiteer has called - Here's the Labour MSP
:14:57. > :15:15.Elaine Smith and the former SNP Elaine Smith, you talk of the
:15:16. > :15:20.internationalist taste for leaving. Spell it out for us? The EU is a
:15:21. > :15:26.capitalist trade club so by leaving the club it doesn't mean we are no
:15:27. > :15:30.longer part of Europe and I think if you look to what the Labour movement
:15:31. > :15:35.has achieved over many years then that is a fight for workers' rights
:15:36. > :15:41.across borders to actually by staying within that capitalist club,
:15:42. > :15:45.that actually can stress -- constrict the fight for workers'
:15:46. > :15:49.rights. Has she got a point, that Europe
:15:50. > :15:52.holds back the struggle for workers' rights?
:15:53. > :15:56.I have no idea what Elaine Smith is talking about when she talks about a
:15:57. > :16:02.capitalist club. The EU is something very different. It is a union of
:16:03. > :16:05.people first and foremost and a lot of the people are working across
:16:06. > :16:11.borders and we need social protection and I think the EU has
:16:12. > :16:15.provided that in the last 40 years. It is a benefit for us all. Elaine
:16:16. > :16:19.Smith, spell it out. What do you mean?
:16:20. > :16:25.It is a trade club and a lock of what the EU imposes on as through
:16:26. > :16:28.directives mean that we face privatisation of services. One
:16:29. > :16:36.example is the Scottish Government telling us recently they had to put
:16:37. > :16:45.Cammack out to tender. Thankfully it won the tender but we may face that
:16:46. > :16:49.again. Privatisation. A lock of the rights that have come for workers
:16:50. > :16:54.are actually because of struggles by trade unions. Some of the rights
:16:55. > :17:00.that have come through the EU for workers, they have come through a
:17:01. > :17:06.reaction to thing is imposed by the EU. Take compulsive competitive
:17:07. > :17:16.tendering, put out by the EU and therefore did he rights came into
:17:17. > :17:22.play but only because we refused T PC. There was a left-wing argument
:17:23. > :17:29.for leaving the EU club but it took me some time to weigh up the
:17:30. > :17:34.argument and decide I was willing to put the left-wing Case for leaving
:17:35. > :17:39.the EU. Address the European Union
:17:40. > :17:42.tendering, the mechanism which the Scottish Government felt it had to
:17:43. > :17:51.fulfil when it looked at tendering for the contract on the West Coast
:17:52. > :17:55.that Cammack fulfils. Why is that something that fulfils workers'
:17:56. > :17:57.rights? Does it drive down the cost of the service that is being
:17:58. > :18:07.provided? You just have to see what happened.
:18:08. > :18:12.Cammack managed to get the tender. There are many ways to go about it.
:18:13. > :18:16.Other countries haven't got the same system we have in Britain and there
:18:17. > :18:21.is a loss of scaremongering. One of them was trying to think Cammack
:18:22. > :18:28.would not get the contract and it did get it. It got it. There is a
:18:29. > :18:34.loss of worry at the start and scaremongering to start with but we
:18:35. > :18:42.have seen it with Cammack. It worked perfectly well and it worked for the
:18:43. > :18:47.workers. The union, the European Union is first and foremost a union
:18:48. > :18:53.of people and many of the people are workers. Whatever we are we are all
:18:54. > :18:57.EU citizens and whatever we are from this country or from other
:18:58. > :19:02.countries, I would expect the Labour movement to look after them all,
:19:03. > :19:09.whether we are living here or in other countries in the EU. I would
:19:10. > :19:13.ask them to respect their rights. On that point, how does allowing
:19:14. > :19:17.unlimited free movement of workers from Bulgaria and Romania improve
:19:18. > :19:23.the rights of workers here in this country and improve their wages?
:19:24. > :19:33.You know, it is an international movement. The right of European
:19:34. > :19:36.Union workers are as right? -- are as important as the rights of
:19:37. > :19:40.Scottish workers and we need to make sure we stand for them all and I
:19:41. > :19:46.think the EU is the best place to do that. Why on earth would we try to
:19:47. > :19:53.sacrifice some of our workers across the continent just because we think
:19:54. > :19:58.that British workers should have an open end? I don't agree should. A
:19:59. > :20:03.British worker that wants to work across the EU can do that under
:20:04. > :20:10.present legislation and we are all EU citizens. The EU workers from all
:20:11. > :20:15.EU countries that want to work you can do that.
:20:16. > :20:22.Elaine Smith, just on that point, you know, workers' rights are and EU
:20:23. > :20:25.wide issue. All European countries are addressing the same point and
:20:26. > :20:31.Britain can fight for workers within the European Union set up.
:20:32. > :20:35.Why leave on that basis? We would still be European if we leave. Just
:20:36. > :20:42.because we are not part of the EU trade body construct doesn't mean we
:20:43. > :20:46.are not Europeans. The public is, of course, I am all for immigration and
:20:47. > :20:52.I'm for people moving around and helping refugees and not stopping
:20:53. > :20:57.them at European borders. The problem is, for example, the posted
:20:58. > :21:01.workers direct it so if people came here from another country, they are
:21:02. > :21:04.paid at the rates in that country so unfortunately that means those
:21:05. > :21:15.workers will be doing the same jobs as workers here but they would be
:21:16. > :21:21.paid less wages. That is a big attraction for capitalist systems. I
:21:22. > :21:24.think that an acceptable. To be clear, Elaine Smith, do you
:21:25. > :21:30.see this as a way of reducing immigration into this country?
:21:31. > :21:40.I am getting a wee bit fed up of this being put down to immigration.
:21:41. > :21:43.It has been the far right, Bollington boys debating against
:21:44. > :21:47.each other. I don't think that is the case. I think we can actually
:21:48. > :21:54.look to other countries and the Commonwealth to see why leaving the
:21:55. > :21:57.EU might increase workers coming to the country, the free movement of
:21:58. > :22:03.people doesn't have to stop just because we leave the EU. I am all
:22:04. > :22:08.for that. I am not for workers being exploited and I do not think for a
:22:09. > :22:12.minute the EU can be reformed. I understand there are people on the
:22:13. > :22:18.left to take that view and I appreciate why they do that. A lots
:22:19. > :22:23.of people on the left are holding their noses and voting to remain
:22:24. > :22:27.when they don't think it is the perfect institution and far from it.
:22:28. > :22:28.There we must leave it. Thank you both very much indeed.
:22:29. > :22:32.And joining me now to discuss some of today's other news stories
:22:33. > :22:42.and the former Daily Express journalist Paul Gilbride.
:22:43. > :22:49.Thanks very much for joining us. Let's talk about BHS. It has
:22:50. > :22:53.collapsed with the loss of thousands of jobs. The former owner of the
:22:54. > :22:58.company, Malik Chappelle, has been accused today of having his fingers
:22:59. > :23:03.in the till -- Dominic Chappell. During a hearing into the collapse
:23:04. > :23:09.of the company. Here is what Darren Topp had to say.
:23:10. > :23:15.I said to him, that is theft. If I take out all of the expletives, he
:23:16. > :23:19.basically said, do not kick off about this. I have had enough of you
:23:20. > :23:23.telling me what to do over the last few months. It is my business, I can
:23:24. > :23:27.do what I want and if you kick off about it I am going to come down
:23:28. > :23:32.there and kill you. He threatened to kill me again and I know it sounds
:23:33. > :23:38.silly but, you know, apparently he says he was in the helicopter squad
:23:39. > :23:42.of the SAS and I know he has got a gun so there was a bit of me
:23:43. > :23:48.thought, and I said to him, threaten me again and I will call the police.
:23:49. > :23:51.What do you make of that, Andy? I think it is beyond surreal that we
:23:52. > :23:55.have this incredible situation where people at the top of corporate
:23:56. > :24:00.Britain are threatening to kill each other. The whole thing has been
:24:01. > :24:06.frankly disgraceful and what we need to remember, although it is like a
:24:07. > :24:11.bizarre London gangster movie unfolding in front of us, there are
:24:12. > :24:14.real people affected by this. 11,000 people will lose their jobs as a
:24:15. > :24:21.result of what has happened to BHS and some of the bounds of retail
:24:22. > :24:24.engaging in this behaviour... We say we are shocked very often but I
:24:25. > :24:28.think people will be genuinely shocked.
:24:29. > :24:33.It was on television. What do you make of people fighting like ferrets
:24:34. > :24:45.in a sack? It is like something from a Guy
:24:46. > :24:48.Ritchie movie. I don't think Dominic Chappell and Darren Topp... I don't
:24:49. > :24:53.think it is typical of corporate Britain. Dominic Chappell has a
:24:54. > :25:01.dubious past and he comes across as a bit of a asset stripper if nothing
:25:02. > :25:09.else. At the end of the day it is like the Sopranos dicky over Marks
:25:10. > :25:14.and Spencers and it is farcical but 11,000 people have lost their jobs.
:25:15. > :25:19.-- taking over Marks and Spencers. This produces gripping television
:25:20. > :25:24.and you don't see that in Scotland, do you?
:25:25. > :25:27.The Commons committees work in a forensic way, which perhaps they
:25:28. > :25:32.don't do at Holyrood and perhaps Holyrood can take a lesson from
:25:33. > :25:36.that. Commons committees can really drill down properly into things.
:25:37. > :25:42.This was more than forensic examination. This was theatre. But
:25:43. > :25:48.we can't sit and smile at this in Scotland, the country which brought
:25:49. > :25:52.you the scandal of RBS and the entrepreneur formerly known as Sir
:25:53. > :25:57.Fred Goodwin so we are not looking at high principles here.
:25:58. > :26:02.Into the Scottish parliament. A conservative motion for a pause into
:26:03. > :26:07.the introduction of the named person policy. Defeated in Parliament. The
:26:08. > :26:13.Scottish Government position was refreshing the guidance to
:26:14. > :26:17.professionals. Let's hear a couple of the arguments.
:26:18. > :26:22.It is quite frankly a bureaucratic nightmare and it serves to
:26:23. > :26:25.illustrate one of the fundamental flaws about the work ability of the
:26:26. > :26:29.policy. The Conservatives are not after
:26:30. > :26:35.reflection, they want repeal. That is what they screamed at us during
:26:36. > :26:38.the election and Parliament, do not be fooled today by the temporary
:26:39. > :26:44.change in tone. Sweeney looking like he is about to
:26:45. > :26:49.be beamed up. Are the Conservatives backtracking am not calling for it
:26:50. > :26:52.to be scrapped. Calling for a pause. They felt they would use in a
:26:53. > :26:59.straight fight? I don't think it is like they are backtracking. There
:27:00. > :27:07.are perhaps ideological reasons why the Tories oppose this named person
:27:08. > :27:16.provision. I think today was about a bit of realpolitik, trying to water
:27:17. > :27:22.down... Not watered down. Trying to gain the support of Labour and the
:27:23. > :27:28.Lib Dems because Labour the past suggested they should have time for
:27:29. > :27:30.reflection. Yes, I think it was more about gaining parliamentary support
:27:31. > :27:36.from the opposition parties. Van watering it down. I think the Tories
:27:37. > :27:40.are fundamentally opposed to this idea.
:27:41. > :27:44.Andy, the SNP were offering concessions, acknowledging
:27:45. > :27:50.difficulties with it. If is becoming a headache for them?
:27:51. > :27:55.I think it is, yes. My own view is there is very little wrong with the
:27:56. > :27:59.policy. It has been piloted and is considered to be a success so if you
:28:00. > :28:02.talk to people who deal with families and children they think
:28:03. > :28:06.this is a good idea and it will work well. The problem has been with the
:28:07. > :28:12.presentation, which has been appalling. Even the name, named
:28:13. > :28:16.person, these Orwellian and sinister. A friend said to me
:28:17. > :28:23.yesterday, why didn't they call it something more acceptable like care.
:28:24. > :28:28.A lot of this is in the perception and in fact the policy I think is
:28:29. > :28:31.sound but they have a lot of explaining to do.
:28:32. > :28:37.Very briefly, how difficult is it going to be for the Tories to make
:28:38. > :28:42.an impact at Holyrood? On this issue? Anything? I don't
:28:43. > :28:46.think it will be particularly difficult. I think their tails are
:28:47. > :28:48.up in the air. They are the second largest party and they feel
:28:49. > :28:51.confident. Thank you very much indeed.
:28:52. > :28:55.Shelley will be back again tomorrow night, usual time.
:28:56. > :29:24...consumes tens of millions of meals,
:29:25. > :29:28.burns around ?150 billion worth of jet fuel...
:29:29. > :29:32...and handles over three billion pieces of luggage a year.
:29:33. > :29:39.discover there's more than the air beneath the wings