05/09/2016

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:00:00. > :00:00.The UK Government says it wants a "national consensus" on how

:00:07. > :00:35.Back from our summer break and it's still all about Brexit.

:00:36. > :00:38.The First Minister says she'll try to work with like-minded

:00:39. > :00:44.politicians across the UK to try to stay in the single market.

:00:45. > :00:47.As the Commons gets back down to business, the new Minister

:00:48. > :00:51.for Brexit says he wants better trade deals but that should come

:00:52. > :00:59.So just how much influence will Scotland have?

:01:00. > :01:02.We hear from the new minister whose job it will be to negotiate

:01:03. > :01:17.But are we any closer to figuring out what exactly that means?

:01:18. > :01:19.Anyone hoping for more clarity from the Prime Minister might

:01:20. > :01:27.There won't be any attempt to backtrack on leaving the EU,

:01:28. > :01:33.And there won't be a points-based system for controlling EU migration.

:01:34. > :01:35.Well, Nicola Sturgeon has been talking to our political editor,

:01:36. > :01:39.Brian Taylor, about her hopes for the negotiation process.

:01:40. > :01:42.He asked her whether, if the UK remained a member

:01:43. > :01:45.of the single market, she would accept there might need

:01:46. > :02:00.I think freedom of movement is really important. We talk about it

:02:01. > :02:05.as being one of the four pillars of the EU but in a Scottish context it

:02:06. > :02:09.is important for more tangible reasons than the founding

:02:10. > :02:14.constitution of the EU. We are a country that has an imperative to

:02:15. > :02:19.grow our working age population in order to deal with skills gaps and

:02:20. > :02:24.keep our economy growing, so any moves that choke off our ability to

:02:25. > :02:28.get the best skills and talent from across the EU will be damaging to

:02:29. > :02:33.our economy. And that is a really important part of the wider economic

:02:34. > :02:37.debate. But can you understand the argument from the other side?

:02:38. > :02:40.Britain voted to leave the EU and you are trying to replicate the EU.

:02:41. > :02:46.You don't want to give away anything. Forgive me but I'm the

:02:47. > :02:50.first minister for Scotland and most people voted to stay in the EU.

:02:51. > :02:55.Anybody that thinks as first minister I turn my back on that and

:02:56. > :03:00.say, regardless of... You know, it's not just the democratic argument,

:03:01. > :03:03.but regardless of the damage having that decision ignored will do to our

:03:04. > :03:10.economy and I'm just going to shrug my shoulders, that's not the kind of

:03:11. > :03:14.minister I am. But going into the UK negotiations saying, we want to be

:03:15. > :03:18.in the single market, that's not going to happen. I don't think the

:03:19. > :03:23.UK position is particularly realistic and I don't think it ever

:03:24. > :03:27.has been. One of those key choices will be, is membership of the single

:03:28. > :03:33.market for hard economic reasons more important to us, for reasons

:03:34. > :03:39.that I think in many respects are not well founded, they are just the

:03:40. > :03:43.right of free movement? That's one of the things the UK Government will

:03:44. > :03:48.have to decide which side of that fence it is on. All the signals are

:03:49. > :03:52.it will prioritise restricting free movement and I think that's a

:03:53. > :03:59.mistake, and I have to honestly argue that case. You've put those

:04:00. > :04:05.two points firmly forward. I respect that Scotland didn't vote this way.

:04:06. > :04:10.Theresa May has a mandate in the UK to remove the UK from the EU. I

:04:11. > :04:13.disagree with it but I don't argue with it. It is much more

:04:14. > :04:19.questionable that she has a clear mandate to take the EU out of the

:04:20. > :04:22.single market, because both in the Remain campaigned and League

:04:23. > :04:27.campaign, key figures made the case that voting to leave the EU did not

:04:28. > :04:34.automatically mean leaving the single market. -- Leave. I think

:04:35. > :04:37.doing that will have long-term and permanent, deep damaging effect on

:04:38. > :04:40.our economy and I think I will be joined in that argument by many

:04:41. > :04:44.across the political spectrum probably in England and Wales, who

:04:45. > :04:49.will say, OK, we understand your mandate to take is out of the EU,

:04:50. > :04:50.but let's not take us out of the single market, because that I think

:04:51. > :04:54.is much more questionable. The First Minister speaking to our

:04:55. > :04:56.political editor, Brian Taylor. Well, as the two leaders begin

:04:57. > :04:59.to set out their priorities, where's the wriggle room -

:05:00. > :05:02.if any - to negotiate a bespoke Andrew Black has been looking

:05:03. > :05:14.at some of the key issues. The UK may have voted to leave the

:05:15. > :05:23.EU, but not everyone is ready to accept the result or alternatives to

:05:24. > :05:27.a hardline Brexit. None of those is as good as beneficial -- or is

:05:28. > :05:31.beneficial to us as full membership of the European Union.

:05:32. > :05:35.APPLAUSE These voters gathered in Edinburgh

:05:36. > :05:40.at the weekend, to send a message to the Prime Minister that Scotland

:05:41. > :05:44.wants to stay. But, as Theresa May arrived in China for the Jeep 20

:05:45. > :05:51.summit of world leaders, she made her views pretty clear. -- Jeet 20.

:05:52. > :05:56.There will be no second referendum, no attempt to turn the clock back or

:05:57. > :06:04.get out of this - the UK will be leaving the EU. An Australian

:06:05. > :06:08.points-based system has been rejected the UK, as she prepares to

:06:09. > :06:11.go it alone as a leader. Back in Scotland, there have been calls for

:06:12. > :06:17.an immigration policy separate from the rest of Britain, so is that

:06:18. > :06:23.possible? There has been president for having separate immigration laws

:06:24. > :06:28.within Scotland with the Fresh Talent Initiative, which was

:06:29. > :06:32.introduced in the 2000s. There were separate rules for international

:06:33. > :06:36.students who came to study and work. Many things are unclear. For

:06:37. > :06:41.example, we don't know if the UK would have a position similar Norway

:06:42. > :06:45.in the European Economic Area, which would appear to involve full free

:06:46. > :06:53.movement, which Theresa May seems to have said she wouldn't want to see

:06:54. > :06:58.happening. But if a more bespoke approach to the UK were to be taken,

:06:59. > :07:04.then the extent to which Scotland could have a different approach from

:07:05. > :07:10.the rest of the UK would depend on these negotiations that would take

:07:11. > :07:15.place in the future. The Nicola Sturgeon, migration is important,

:07:16. > :07:19.but so is her desire to keep Britain inside the European single market.

:07:20. > :07:23.-- for Nicola Sturgeon. That's because there might be consequences

:07:24. > :07:31.if that doesn't happen. You end up with a deal that imposes tariffs

:07:32. > :07:38.and, more importantly than that, we have to pretty much abide by

:07:39. > :07:46.whatever regulations any country we are hoping to export to imposes, so

:07:47. > :07:49.we will still have to meet European safety regulations, environmental

:07:50. > :07:53.regulations, labour regulations and so on. Otherwise we won't get access

:07:54. > :07:57.to the market. But others argue differently. We have to ask

:07:58. > :08:01.ourselves whether this changes the rules of the game. Whether there are

:08:02. > :08:06.new opportunities opened up by Brexit. And I think there. It gives

:08:07. > :08:10.Scotland an opportunity to take an even wider role inside the United

:08:11. > :08:14.Kingdom and maybe Wales and Northern Ireland, too, and maybe that would

:08:15. > :08:22.enable us to reflect that we do things bit differently to our

:08:23. > :08:27.European cousins. Despite the referendum result, some voters are

:08:28. > :08:31.trying to remain upbeat. But in reality, there is still far too much

:08:32. > :08:34.uncertainty at this stage to say what might eventually happen.

:08:35. > :08:36.The UK's Brexit Secretary David Davis says the Government will seek

:08:37. > :08:40.a "national consensus" on leaving the EU.

:08:41. > :08:44.In his first Commons statement in his new job,

:08:45. > :08:49.Mr Davis spelled out a little of what he thinks Brexit means.

:08:50. > :09:00.Naturally people want to know what Brexit will mean. Simply...

:09:01. > :09:11.Simply... Simply it means leaving the European Union. So we... We will

:09:12. > :09:17.decide on our borders our laws and the tax payers' money. It means

:09:18. > :09:22.getting the best deal for Britain. One that is unique to Britain. Not

:09:23. > :09:26.an off-the-shelf solution. This must mean controls on the numbers of

:09:27. > :09:31.people who come to Britain from Europe. But also a positive outcome

:09:32. > :09:33.for those who wish to trade in goods and services.

:09:34. > :09:35.Mr Davis also confirmed that he'll be visiting Scotland soon.

:09:36. > :09:38.Shortly before we came on air I spoke to Michael Russell,

:09:39. > :09:41.who's due to become Minister for UK Negotiations on Scotland's Place

:09:42. > :09:48.in Europe, the man presumably Mr Davis will do business with.

:09:49. > :09:56.I asked if they had a date in the diary to me yet. I have lots of

:09:57. > :10:00.dates in my diary available to me with David Davis. I think he is due

:10:01. > :10:03.to be in Scotland to appear before one of the Parliamentary committees.

:10:04. > :10:09.But we have to get on with the process. And will he meet you, do

:10:10. > :10:12.you think? I would hope so! There would be much point if he doesn't

:10:13. > :10:16.meet me because we have to start this dialogue. Scotland has to start

:10:17. > :10:21.talking to the UK Government in detail. Background discussions have

:10:22. > :10:26.been undertaken and Nicola Sturgeon has met with the new prime minister,

:10:27. > :10:30.but now there has to be real, substantive, detailed discussion. We

:10:31. > :10:34.have to discuss how we take forward a situation we did not ask to be in,

:10:35. > :10:38.and how we take forward the issues, and there are many important issues,

:10:39. > :10:41.many of which are devolved to the Scottish Parliament, and I think it

:10:42. > :10:46.would be think -- unthinkable that we weren't at the very heart of that

:10:47. > :10:50.discussion. Do you think you will have some real influence in all of

:10:51. > :10:55.this, then? At the weekend, Theresa May said Scotland would be fully

:10:56. > :10:59.engaged and fully involved. If she means those words, then that means

:11:00. > :11:01.there has to be a full, Frank, detailed discussion between all the

:11:02. > :11:06.devolved nations in the UK Government. And this is a

:11:07. > :11:12.touchstone, really, in terms of trusting the UK. If the UK means

:11:13. > :11:15.anything in these circumstances, it has to mean making sure Scotland and

:11:16. > :11:19.Northern Ireland and Wales and London are at the heart of this, and

:11:20. > :11:24.of course Scotland did not vote to leave the EU. So that is a very,

:11:25. > :11:29.very important part of these discussions. And there's been a lot

:11:30. > :11:32.of talk about talking, listening, and David Davis said he will listen

:11:33. > :11:37.to all the devolved nations, but he's also going to listen to the

:11:38. > :11:45.universities, corporations. In the end, Brexit means Britain leaving

:11:46. > :11:49.the UK, sorry, the EU. Well, Brexit now means Britain leaving the EU,

:11:50. > :11:53.and that's more than we knew this morning, because the lack of

:11:54. > :11:58.definition and clarity was great. I think it is important not to lay out

:11:59. > :12:02.or you have on the table in terms of negotiations straightaway. But the

:12:03. > :12:07.very heart of this is who we are. Brexit is not about curved bananas

:12:08. > :12:12.or fish. It is about our vision of ourselves. It's what we want to

:12:13. > :12:15.achieve. The Scots, for example, welcome people from elsewhere. We

:12:16. > :12:19.are not full up. There is a whole range of things that might not be

:12:20. > :12:22.important to others but they are important to us and at the heart of

:12:23. > :12:27.us -- that is the single market and being involved in the single market.

:12:28. > :12:32.What are your red line issues? I know you don't want to put all your

:12:33. > :12:37.negotiating cards on the table, but access to the single market, is that

:12:38. > :12:40.a red line? I don't think you talk about redline issues, you talk about

:12:41. > :12:48.the things that are important to you. We start off saying of course a

:12:49. > :12:51.single market is tremendously important. It is not just because of

:12:52. > :12:55.goods and services. It is important because it expresses certain things.

:12:56. > :13:00.It is a membership, not just access, and the membership is based on fair

:13:01. > :13:03.treatment of one nation by another, and that includes free movement of

:13:04. > :13:07.people. You cannot just go and knock on the door and say, I want to buy

:13:08. > :13:11.something, as if it were a shop. You have to be involved in the process

:13:12. > :13:16.of setting and regulating it. Much of that appear to be what was being

:13:17. > :13:22.said today and that's a very serious situation for Scotland and the UK,

:13:23. > :13:25.and we need to make that point about the single market. What about

:13:26. > :13:30.immigration? Might you accept stricter border controls as a price

:13:31. > :13:34.to pay for actually retaining access to the single market? Is not a

:13:35. > :13:40.question of accepting stricter border controls. A single market is

:13:41. > :13:44.built upon the four freedoms. That is in goods, services, capital and

:13:45. > :13:48.people. And the reason for that is that there is a level playing field.

:13:49. > :13:55.One of the worries is when you hear this debate being about a discussion

:13:56. > :13:59.of us as a great trading nation, we are a great trading nation. Scotland

:14:00. > :14:02.is as well. Does it mean abandoning the social protections people of

:14:03. > :14:07.Scotland have earned as being part of the EU? These are the five

:14:08. > :14:11.conditions the first minister laid down over a month ago and they are

:14:12. > :14:14.very important. The social, economic, democratic, so we are not

:14:15. > :14:21.trading away the rights of workers, for example. But you've heard the

:14:22. > :14:25.mood music. Theresa May and David Davis have made it clear they want

:14:26. > :14:28.stricter border controls. You are not going to keep access to the

:14:29. > :14:35.single market and freedom of movement. That's not realistic, is

:14:36. > :14:39.it? That is the conundrum and it's difficult. Scotland must articulate

:14:40. > :14:42.the importance, to say, these things vital to our future. The best deal

:14:43. > :14:47.for Scotland is to remain within the EU. That's what the people of

:14:48. > :14:52.Scotland said overwhelmingly. That's not what the UK Government will do.

:14:53. > :14:57.That's clear. That's not as good, then. That's completely obvious, I'm

:14:58. > :15:06.afraid. If this is a meaningful negotiation, you will have to give

:15:07. > :15:08.ground? But we must articulate what is important in that negotiation at

:15:09. > :15:11.the start of the negotiation. You don't start giving things away. You

:15:12. > :15:17.start a meaningful negotiation by saying, this is what we want, this

:15:18. > :15:21.is who we are, and that's the type of discussion we must have. So is

:15:22. > :15:28.maintaining influence important alongside access to the single

:15:29. > :15:32.market? Is it non-negotiable? Again, another red Line issue? You keep

:15:33. > :15:36.putting down lots of red lines! There are none of these on the first

:15:37. > :15:40.day of discussion. But there are principles that are very important

:15:41. > :15:44.which you don't want to depart from. The first minister laid out

:15:45. > :15:47.conditions... You are holding onto all of the conditions that the

:15:48. > :15:52.status quo but that's not going to be the situation moving forward? You

:15:53. > :15:56.are expressing them as principles rather than things we wouldn't trade

:15:57. > :16:00.away and the principles are how we should approach this. The principle

:16:01. > :16:06.is that the people of Scotland voted to stay. We should recognise that

:16:07. > :16:10.democracy exists in Scotland. Social protection is important, influence

:16:11. > :16:14.is important, and solidarity as well is very important. We don't want

:16:15. > :16:17.Scotland to regress having got to this stage. We don't want people to

:16:18. > :16:22.start giving things up because decisions have been made elsewhere.

:16:23. > :16:26.So we have a complex set of negotiations to go into but I'm very

:16:27. > :16:30.strongly of the view that we go in with our beliefs and our principles

:16:31. > :16:34.underpinning what we are discussing. And don't you see any opportunity

:16:35. > :16:41.for tour for Scotland in actually leaving the EU? Fishing, farming?

:16:42. > :16:46.The Scottish government has done substantial work and published it on

:16:47. > :16:50.that. I am very happy to listen to those who say we are going to be

:16:51. > :16:55.better, but we need to see the evidence of that. There was a great

:16:56. > :16:59.deal of talk today by David Davis in the House of Commons but precious

:17:00. > :17:02.little evidence. If people say they have evidence of a major benefit, as

:17:03. > :17:09.the fishing community is saying, and I represent it constituency with

:17:10. > :17:13.fishing interests. Members are saying these opportunities, are they

:17:14. > :17:17.wrong? We need to listen to those who voted to leave, we need to

:17:18. > :17:21.listen to that. But I think the evidence that things can and will

:17:22. > :17:26.improve and there will be some magical new dawn, the evidence is

:17:27. > :17:30.not only thin, but nonexistent. The First Minister talked about working

:17:31. > :17:35.with other UK political leaders who might be of a similar view,, that

:17:36. > :17:38.any early signs that might happen? She talked about this at the

:17:39. > :17:43.weekend. It is perhaps a little early to look for early signs. Has

:17:44. > :17:47.anybody been in touch? That would be a matter and would not talk about

:17:48. > :17:52.here with you. The reality of the situation is, a lot of people said

:17:53. > :17:55.they wanted to remain, a lot of people campaigned vigorously for it.

:17:56. > :17:59.A lot of people believed the evidence of their own eyes that this

:18:00. > :18:03.is going to be difficult, the Prime Minister herself said at the weekend

:18:04. > :18:07.there would be difficulty ahead. It could be painful. I think that is

:18:08. > :18:12.code for, this is not all plain sailing. And we haven't left. We are

:18:13. > :18:16.not even in the foot hells of this as yet, there is a one way to go and

:18:17. > :18:19.we need to make sure those who believe in things like the single

:18:20. > :18:23.market and how important they are and look at the evidence working

:18:24. > :18:28.together -- foothills. Some people will wonder whether in your heart

:18:29. > :18:33.you are really wanting these negotiations to succeed. To get the

:18:34. > :18:36.best possible Brexit deal. And because that would torpedo hopes and

:18:37. > :18:41.dreams for independence. I do not believe that is the case. We want to

:18:42. > :18:44.make sure Scotland gets the very best. The First Minister at the

:18:45. > :18:48.start of this process, immediately after the vote when she spoke to the

:18:49. > :18:52.Scottish Parliament, said that she wanted to look at all the options

:18:53. > :18:56.and the convent and labours options in front of the Scottish Parliament.

:18:57. > :19:03.I am very pleased to take on a role in that to get that best deal but we

:19:04. > :19:07.have to be very hard-headed and realistic about the interests of

:19:08. > :19:13.Scotland. Finally, do you have a view on whether there should be a

:19:14. > :19:17.second referendum on the outcome of the negotiations? Well, not as yet.

:19:18. > :19:21.I think there is a lot of discussion about what the constitutional future

:19:22. > :19:26.is going to be. You are not ruling it out? What I am very focused on

:19:27. > :19:29.now is to get these negotiations started, the talk in detail and I

:19:30. > :19:34.think we are getting quite close to that. Once that has started, we will

:19:35. > :19:38.be in a process which day by day, we will be discovering more about a

:19:39. > :19:40.circumstance, and want to stress this, not of our making. Thank you

:19:41. > :19:58.very much, Michael Russell. I am joined now by the law lecturer

:19:59. > :20:03.Andrew Tickel, journalist Katie grand and from London, writer and

:20:04. > :20:09.broadcaster Paul Mason. Thank you. Katie, it is Mike Russell right to

:20:10. > :20:14.say that if the UK means anything at all, taking Scotland's concerns

:20:15. > :20:19.seriously over Brexit is a real test of the union? I suppose he is right

:20:20. > :20:23.in a way. Scotland's needs to be part of the negotiations because

:20:24. > :20:29.Scotland is one of the constituent nations of the UK. And it is as the

:20:30. > :20:36.UK that we will be leaving. So I think he is. I suppose one of the

:20:37. > :20:40.things you of baffled by business verbiage coming out. We know

:20:41. > :20:46.nothing, we are no further on than we are at the June. Lots of people

:20:47. > :20:49.pressing forward their sort of general principles, nobody really

:20:50. > :20:54.saying anything that is very concrete. I think the one concrete

:20:55. > :20:57.thing we do know about Mike Russell and the SNP is they want Scottish

:20:58. > :21:01.independence, that is the only thing we have to hold onto because

:21:02. > :21:08.everything else seems to be in this nebulous land as you might call it.

:21:09. > :21:12.And you, we heard from the Prime Minister, from David Davis in the

:21:13. > :21:16.last 48 hours, how would you read the mood music? Is Scotland going to

:21:17. > :21:20.have any influence over these negotiations? It is very difficult

:21:21. > :21:24.to say at the moment. It depends, really. David Davis and Theresa May

:21:25. > :21:29.a couple of weeks ago stressed the idea that a national consensus,

:21:30. > :21:33.which must be British, we preconditioned towards any Brexit

:21:34. > :21:37.deal. The one think we know will be really hard to achieve is a national

:21:38. > :21:45.consensus. It seems to me there cannot be won. The best case, as

:21:46. > :21:48.Nicola Sturgeon said today, is the softest Brexit possible to secure

:21:49. > :21:51.the greatest access to the single market. If you get that national

:21:52. > :21:54.consensus, eat get a consensus in the Conservative Party, because

:21:55. > :22:00.they're great swathes including the Minister for Brexit who are not

:22:01. > :22:05.thrilled with that version. From London, Paul Mason, what is the view

:22:06. > :22:09.from there? People concerned about what Scotland thinks in this and can

:22:10. > :22:13.there be a national consensus? We on the left in England and Wales are

:22:14. > :22:19.very concerned with the way Scotland breaks on this because it to me,

:22:20. > :22:23.what I have been hearing is of a dream dying. I was inspired when I

:22:24. > :22:27.covered the Scottish referendum by the belief of many in a radical and

:22:28. > :22:32.Independent and socially just Scotland. To hear it evaporate in

:22:33. > :22:36.favour of an unspecified aspiration in a Brexit process is a bit

:22:37. > :22:41.disappointing. The SNP has to decide whether or not the dynamic it is

:22:42. > :22:45.trying to play in politics is the dynamic of radical and socially

:22:46. > :22:49.progressive independence would you want to stay on a right-wing island

:22:50. > :22:54.with Tories who want to take us back to the Thatcher era? It surprises me

:22:55. > :23:00.that Nicola Sturgeon wants to go out and listen. Let's do that, but she

:23:01. > :23:03.has to ask the question, is now or never for independence or a

:23:04. > :23:09.generation and if we are going to do it, what is the point of teaming up

:23:10. > :23:14.with Theresa May for a soft Brexit? Andrew Tickel, has he got a point?

:23:15. > :23:18.It is very unclear where the SNP stands, they are like poker players

:23:19. > :23:22.who want to keep every card in their hands. How long can they do that? It

:23:23. > :23:27.depends how long everything takes and the answer is tomorrow and

:23:28. > :23:32.tomorrow. This is inspired by Macbeth, this negotiation, it is

:23:33. > :23:36.unclear where everything is. Nobody is articulating anything apart from

:23:37. > :23:40.fake positions and policies and values. Brass tacks very, very far

:23:41. > :23:44.away and you disagree about those because the point of values broadly

:23:45. > :23:49.expressed is that everybody can agree because they are politically

:23:50. > :23:55.vacuous. Hard choices are not being taken yet. I think Paul Mason is

:23:56. > :23:59.right, the dream is dwindling away. Because most people in Scotland's do

:24:00. > :24:04.not subscribe to that dream as was made evidence in the independence

:24:05. > :24:08.referendum in 2014. I think Nicola Sturgeon is stuck. She has the

:24:09. > :24:13.fundamentalists who just want independence at any cost, never mind

:24:14. > :24:18.Brexit or we all go to hell in a handcart, we will go independently.

:24:19. > :24:23.And they have the wavering unionists who were a bit, who were very, very

:24:24. > :24:27.upset by the Brexit vote. And who, the day after the vote, might have

:24:28. > :24:33.voted for independence if that could have meant remaining in Europe,

:24:34. > :24:38.which it could not have done. So she has got to bring these people on

:24:39. > :24:42.board if the dream is to live, who naturally don't really conform to

:24:43. > :24:47.the image which Paul has put forward. Is the listening a holding

:24:48. > :24:52.exercise? The listening is nonsense. How many times, who do we listen to?

:24:53. > :24:56.The one to four bit is apparently by the SNP members, each member is

:24:57. > :25:00.supposed to go and find five more other people. It is a giant echo

:25:01. > :25:06.chamber. They will all coat each other, it is great. So we encourage

:25:07. > :25:10.the date to hear Nicola Sturgeon talking about building alliances

:25:11. > :25:14.across the UK, Paul Mason? The Alliance Nicola Sturgeon needs to be

:25:15. > :25:17.part is the one that we in Labour and some people in Labour and some

:25:18. > :25:21.people in Plaid Cymru and some people in the Green Party are trying

:25:22. > :25:26.to build, a progressive Alliance to make the best of Brexit. The fight

:25:27. > :25:30.the right-wing Tory agenda. You heard David Davis today clarifying

:25:31. > :25:33.it in a TV interview, he wants a clean break with Europe

:25:34. > :25:37.economically. That is the big news today. If you to stay on the island

:25:38. > :25:44.with that, either you go Independent and you'd not part of the story, or

:25:45. > :25:49.you join with the progressive forces across the British Isles to fight

:25:50. > :25:54.the Tories. I have covered the Catalan national question for many

:25:55. > :25:58.years and it is very convenient to have this independence struggle that

:25:59. > :26:02.never comes to pass. It never quite happens. And in the meantime, people

:26:03. > :26:06.obsess about independence and they miss the opportunity to fight with

:26:07. > :26:12.their fellow working class and the poor and young people across Britain

:26:13. > :26:19.against the Conservatives. Andrew Tickel, if we are focusing on a good

:26:20. > :26:26.Brexit. And, what about something like having a separate immigration

:26:27. > :26:29.policy? Is that feasible? It is feasible in the abstract sense. Is

:26:30. > :26:34.it likely or possible? No, of course not. We saw today David Davis

:26:35. > :26:40.articulating the idea that this Parliament is sovereign. That idea

:26:41. > :26:45.sends a chill up my spine. Of the reasons Paul was describing, I'm not

:26:46. > :26:49.comfortable with the idea of a Tory dominated, disproportionately

:26:50. > :26:52.misrepresented Assembly. The chances as were discussed of Scotland

:26:53. > :26:58.getting power over immigration or the equivalent of Dutch equivalent

:26:59. > :27:03.of survival on a snowball of help. The SNP reticulated -- reticulated

:27:04. > :27:09.and honourable idea, looking forward to an idea of the best Brexit

:27:10. > :27:15.possible, the Wiest worst scenario. People are endlessly slapping off

:27:16. > :27:18.the SNP for being impractical, separatists. This is practical

:27:19. > :27:23.politics in the UK and if you cannot be happy with that and you are a

:27:24. > :27:28.Remain voter with anxieties, heaven help you. Partisanship has taken

:27:29. > :27:33.over everything. You voted Remain, do you think there are opportunities

:27:34. > :27:38.for Scotland? I think, it is my views Scotland should remain in the

:27:39. > :27:42.UK even with the Brexit vote, even though I am a Remain voter, to be

:27:43. > :27:47.the strongest voice possible in the UK. I also do not want to see a Tory

:27:48. > :27:51.dominated UK, I do not want Scotland next door to a country it has

:27:52. > :27:55.nothing to do with and has no influence over. They are our nearest

:27:56. > :28:00.neighbours, most of my family live there, Scotland has a very powerful

:28:01. > :28:05.place in the UK. It would have an on powerful place in Europe. So I would

:28:06. > :28:08.prefer. Scotland also has this lovely habit of trying to pretend

:28:09. > :28:12.everything is on its side so when asked about the border with

:28:13. > :28:16.immigration, there will be no border, says Nicola Sturgeon. But

:28:17. > :28:22.they have two sides and being rich will not be happy with very

:28:23. > :28:26.immigration in Scotland and having, people will go down to England, that

:28:27. > :28:31.is not happening either. Is that a possibility or just fantasyland?

:28:32. > :28:36.Look, I think the point is full Scotland, there are plenty of things

:28:37. > :28:40.you can do with devolved powers to set socially just policies that fly

:28:41. > :28:44.in the face of what Theresa May and Boris Johnson are trying to do to

:28:45. > :28:49.Britain and one is a Labour market. It has been said before that

:28:50. > :28:54.Scotland has an outward looking position on migration. It could do a

:28:55. > :28:57.lot to regulate the Scottish Labour movement in favour of trade unions

:28:58. > :29:02.and higher wages and more open engagement with the rest of the

:29:03. > :29:07.world. Education policy, you already have. You could do that. But it is

:29:08. > :29:13.we had to sit here with them behind me, being the person in the studio

:29:14. > :29:16.most enthusiastic for following the story of radical cultural and

:29:17. > :29:20.national independence. Because Yucatan played on the British Isles

:29:21. > :29:24.a completely different kind of economy and society -- you could

:29:25. > :29:27.play out. We have to leave it there, but thank you very much.

:29:28. > :29:28.That's it for tonight, thanks for watching.

:29:29. > :29:31.Gary Robertson will be here tomorrow night at the same time.

:29:32. > :29:38.In an unforgiving time, Scotland had its heroes.

:29:39. > :29:44.Then, as our sense of Scottishness flourished,

:29:45. > :29:47.our football saw unprecedented decline.

:29:48. > :29:51.Scotland over-estimate how good they are.