17/10/2016

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:00:00. > :00:07."Every young person deserves to be loved," says Nicola Sturgeon.

:00:08. > :00:09.But as the First Minister announces a root-and-branch review

:00:10. > :00:30.of the care system, why is it failing so many children?

:00:31. > :00:34.The First Minister's announcement was enthusiastically welcomed

:00:35. > :00:37.by young people who've experienced the care system.

:00:38. > :00:40.But what changes do they want to see?

:00:41. > :00:42.In Northern Ireland, Assembly members consider a motion

:00:43. > :00:49.Can Scotland make common cause with them on the issue?

:00:50. > :00:51.And we discuss a subject of no little controversy -

:00:52. > :01:02.There was hardly a dry eye in the house when Nicola Sturgeon

:01:03. > :01:05.spoke about the experiences of children in care.

:01:06. > :01:08.It's not often we see a leader fight back the tears

:01:09. > :01:10.during a conference speech, but you got the sense

:01:11. > :01:13.on Saturday that this is an issue the First Minister

:01:14. > :01:25.School exclusions are down. The number of children living in

:01:26. > :01:29.opponents rather than temporary placements is up. But we cannot

:01:30. > :01:36.ignore the reality for too many children in care. Only 6% go to

:01:37. > :01:42.university. Nearly half will suffer mental health issues. Half of the

:01:43. > :01:47.adult prison population are people who lived in care when they were

:01:48. > :01:55.growing up. Worst of all, and this breaks my heart, a young person who

:01:56. > :02:01.has been in care is 20 times more likely to be dead by the time they

:02:02. > :02:07.are 25 than a young person who has not. Conference, this simply has too

:02:08. > :02:15.change and I am determined that it will change.

:02:16. > :02:17.Nicola Sturgeon there, announcing an independent

:02:18. > :02:19.root-and-branch review of the care system.

:02:20. > :02:21.An announcement which was warmly welcomed by the invited audience

:02:22. > :02:30.I'm joined by two of them - Harry O'Neill.

:02:31. > :02:32.And also by Vonnie Sandlan, who's a board member

:02:33. > :02:36.of the charity Who Cares? Scotland.

:02:37. > :02:43.Your experiences of deer were relatively good but you still face

:02:44. > :02:47.barriers. I had a relatively good care experience. I had a lot of

:02:48. > :02:52.support. I lived in different children's houses where I was able

:02:53. > :03:00.to be shown love, support, where I was able to be aspired for, and

:03:01. > :03:05.where I when I was having a bad day or was feeling down, I was able to

:03:06. > :03:10.be picked back up. Unfortunately I am one of the exceptions to that

:03:11. > :03:14.rule. That is not the same for a lot of other young people. A lot of my

:03:15. > :03:19.friends, who just have not received the same sort of support that I

:03:20. > :03:26.have... What is the barrier that they are facing? It is difficult. I

:03:27. > :03:29.hear different people who talk about staff members and Kier experience,

:03:30. > :03:35.people who have gone on to become staff members in units and foster

:03:36. > :03:40.parents, people telling me, they are not allowed to show love. In many

:03:41. > :03:47.instances they have been told that that is not okayed to show love, it

:03:48. > :03:50.is not professional. But we are putting young people into a system

:03:51. > :03:58.to protect them and show them love and make sure that they are nurtured

:03:59. > :04:01.and care for well. From the horrible statistics that we heard the First

:04:02. > :04:07.Minister talk about it is obviously still not happening. To a certain

:04:08. > :04:12.extent the state almost washed its hands of you when you turn 16. You

:04:13. > :04:19.effectively found yourself homeless. Yes, I was 16 in 1998, the middle of

:04:20. > :04:29.my Highers, when I had to move into homeless accommodation because of

:04:30. > :04:32.family relationship breakdown. Young people are seeing our

:04:33. > :04:40.experience is so bad that we need to legislate and that is where the age

:04:41. > :04:56.of entitlement of Kier raised. For the same time -- this announcement

:04:57. > :04:59.has cross-party support. Can you legislate for showing love? You can

:05:00. > :05:03.legislate better than what we have now. The First Minister says

:05:04. > :05:08.statistics and I'm positive destinations for people unfive are

:05:09. > :05:12.stark. Half of the adult prison population will have been people in

:05:13. > :05:17.clear, 30% of the homeless people have been people and Kier, only 6%

:05:18. > :05:21.of people who have been interior go to university. If I was going to a

:05:22. > :05:26.programme looking for business investment if I asked for ?1.6

:05:27. > :05:31.billion to invest into my idea and had such appalling outcomes as the

:05:32. > :05:37.care system currently does, it would be turned down quite rightly. Is

:05:38. > :05:42.that you experience, low expectations? Yes, I have seen a lot

:05:43. > :05:46.of my peers have glass ceilings put up for them. They have been taken

:05:47. > :05:52.into rooms by guidance teachers and said, here is to for college, rather

:05:53. > :05:59.than, let us aspiring theatre, what is it that you want to do? It is a

:06:00. > :06:04.system that a lot of the time reacts to young people rather than act

:06:05. > :06:12.proactively. A lot of the time it is so difficult because when you do not

:06:13. > :06:17.have anybody to aspire for you, how can you aspire for yourself? It is

:06:18. > :06:23.made a lot harder by the actual systematic process of the care

:06:24. > :06:27.system, the way it is driven. I had good experiences but I still had to

:06:28. > :06:32.go to meetings every three months to talk about my life. Every single

:06:33. > :06:36.person who was in charge of me responsible for me was at those

:06:37. > :06:40.meetings and giving reports on how I was doing. I felt like I always had

:06:41. > :06:45.to be the best version of myself and fight what I wanted and every

:06:46. > :06:50.meeting. We should not be having to do that, we should not be having to

:06:51. > :06:55.fight for what we want. We should have this system act as our parents.

:06:56. > :06:59.Do you think one of the problems as a stereotype of people who have been

:07:00. > :07:03.a care, that they are all troubled and will never amount to anything?

:07:04. > :07:10.Yes, this is something that group-mac and other groups have

:07:11. > :07:14.challenged. Young people are in dear because the state has decided that

:07:15. > :07:18.is the best place for them to be, it is not through any fault of their

:07:19. > :07:21.own. It is essential that that they are saying this is a safer solution

:07:22. > :07:25.for young people we had to make sure that provide him with the

:07:26. > :07:29.opportunity to reach the full potential. There are so many

:07:30. > :07:32.elements that are still not working. Whether sisters or brothers get to

:07:33. > :07:39.stay together in a placements. That is important. That is a vital thing

:07:40. > :07:44.that we have to look at. That looks like this was a subject close to

:07:45. > :07:48.Nicola Sturgeon's heart. Was that the feeling you got? Yes, I have had

:07:49. > :07:57.conversations with Michael out before. Bat with Nicola Sturgeon. It

:07:58. > :08:05.is close to her heart. Will she deliver? Lots of governments set up

:08:06. > :08:08.reviews. Will she deliver on your aspirations? She has been proactive

:08:09. > :08:16.in her approach towards this. She has been contacting the organisation

:08:17. > :08:19.and wanting this to work and putting everything in place to make this

:08:20. > :08:23.work. She has started as she means to go on. Thank you.

:08:24. > :08:25.Well, another announcement Nicola Sturgeon made at conference

:08:26. > :08:31.was her intention to table specific proposals to keep Scotland

:08:32. > :08:33.in the single market, even if the rest of the UK

:08:34. > :08:38.She may not be able to look to Northern Ireland for help, though.

:08:39. > :08:41.Stormont's Assembly members today voted against a motion calling

:08:42. > :08:42.for Northern Ireland to be granted special status

:08:43. > :08:46.I'm joined by the BBC's Northern Ireland political editor,

:08:47. > :08:53.Mark Devenport, who's in our Belfast studio.

:08:54. > :08:59.Tell us more about today's vote? This is an argument that has been

:09:00. > :09:02.made in particular by Irish nationalists and they rely on the

:09:03. > :09:10.fact that Northern Ireland voted to remain in the EU by 56% - 44%. There

:09:11. > :09:14.are potential fears about what would be the repercussions of Brexit in

:09:15. > :09:18.terms of maybe it's creating more of a hard older than we have at the

:09:19. > :09:21.moment with the Irish Republic which will of course remain in the

:09:22. > :09:25.European Union. At the moment it is a completely open border. Also

:09:26. > :09:29.concerns about Northern Ireland's dependence on European peace funding

:09:30. > :09:35.and cross-border funding. The idle it was made today by the smaller of

:09:36. > :09:41.the two nationalist parties in the Assembly, the SDLP, but they lost by

:09:42. > :09:47.one vote, 47 votes- 46 votes with the Unionist parties voting entirely

:09:48. > :09:50.against this motion. It has complicated the matter because they

:09:51. > :09:55.are trying to argue this with the EU the EU will see you all Assembly has

:09:56. > :09:58.turned the stone. Is there a specific worry amongst

:09:59. > :10:02.Unionists that of Northern Ireland had a special deal to remain in the

:10:03. > :10:05.single market that would end up being more aligned with the public

:10:06. > :10:11.than with the UK? Here is the complication. The Ulster

:10:12. > :10:15.union, the smaller of the two Unionist parties, campaigns to

:10:16. > :10:18.remain in the EU, and last week they supported a motion which would have

:10:19. > :10:22.involved keeping Northern Ireland in the single market. You could see

:10:23. > :10:27.right now they are recognising the UK decision but they are really on

:10:28. > :10:31.the side of a soft Brexit. But when the looked at today's motion about

:10:32. > :10:35.special recognition for Northern Ireland's status within the EU, I

:10:36. > :10:39.think they were concerned that it was a thin end of the wedge that

:10:40. > :10:43.could drive a wedge between Northern Ireland and the rest of the UK. They

:10:44. > :10:46.thought that was a step too far so they came out against it.

:10:47. > :10:51.The Scottish Government has worked with Stormont in the past on issues.

:10:52. > :10:57.Is there much common courtier? Both areas will argue that because there

:10:58. > :11:00.was a remain in force in both areas they should be granted some kind of

:11:01. > :11:04.flexibility and Nicola Sturgeon may be able to make common cause with

:11:05. > :11:08.Martin McGuinness, the Deputy First Minister, who is in favour of some

:11:09. > :11:12.kind of special status with Northern Ireland, but when they meet together

:11:13. > :11:15.at the joint ministerial committee next week the difficulty in terms of

:11:16. > :11:19.Common cause with Northern Ireland as a whole is that Arlene Foster,

:11:20. > :11:24.our First Minister, has firmly on the Lee side of the argument. You

:11:25. > :11:27.can talk to one element of the executive year and top to the other

:11:28. > :11:31.side and get precisely the opposite. Thank you.

:11:32. > :11:34.The BBC's been on the search for Scotland's favourite book.

:11:35. > :11:37.An expert panel chose 30 titles, by authors born or based

:11:38. > :11:40.in Scotland, representing some of the finest writing

:11:41. > :11:45.The list was then whittled down to 10 books and,

:11:46. > :11:47.following a public vote, the winner was announced

:11:48. > :11:55.And it was Lewis Grassic Gibbon's Sunset Song.

:11:56. > :12:01.Suzanne Allan has been perusing the list.

:12:02. > :12:08.From the classics to crying, contemporary to cult, we love our

:12:09. > :12:12.books. This survey was cast over the summer. Votes were cast for over 30

:12:13. > :12:21.top novels by writers born or based in Scotland. They include classics

:12:22. > :12:26.like Lanark and Sunset Song, to Harry Potter and the philosopher 's

:12:27. > :12:30.Stone. Harry Potter and the philosopher's

:12:31. > :12:36.Stone has sold millions of copies and is loved by adults and children

:12:37. > :12:40.alike. Perhaps it has something to do with

:12:41. > :12:44.living in a dark cupboard but Harry had always been small and skinny for

:12:45. > :12:48.his age. I first read the book when I was 23

:12:49. > :12:53.and I loved that immediately. The story of an orphan boy with special

:12:54. > :12:57.powers who is drawn into a complex adult world, who has two avenge the

:12:58. > :13:04.killers of his parents, who has two fight evil personified by his

:13:05. > :13:10.nemesis is exceptional. The reason I love the book is the heart. Tenth

:13:11. > :13:18.was memories and confessions of a justified sinner. I had a desire to

:13:19. > :13:23.slay him, it is true, and such a desire as a thirsty man has two

:13:24. > :13:30.drink. They say a lack of boat, a clear

:13:31. > :13:35.moral certitude that foreshadows totalitarian mindset of the 20th

:13:36. > :13:36.century and echoes religious fanatics of earlier and current

:13:37. > :13:46.times. And the eventual winner Sunset Song.

:13:47. > :13:52.The wind shook their cloaks. I first read Sunset Song when I was

:13:53. > :13:57.in my early teens, maybe 13 or 14, and that resonated with me firstly

:13:58. > :14:00.because it is a wonder. Read beautifully written but also said

:14:01. > :14:05.something about the history of the country I grew up in and resonated

:14:06. > :14:11.strongly with me as I young Scottish woman. So we picked a classic as

:14:12. > :14:16.number one. Does that mean we are now static and traditional?

:14:17. > :14:22.Trainspotting made it to the top ten and was about heroin abuse, and

:14:23. > :14:28.Harry Potter a wizard's tale that sold in the millions. So what are

:14:29. > :14:32.books for? I think escapism is a great source of reading. And

:14:33. > :14:37.broadening your horizons. Do you think that list this pretty

:14:38. > :14:44.representative of what people read in Scotland? I guess. I think,

:14:45. > :14:49.having Harry Potter wonder, I think you would have to have one of them.

:14:50. > :14:52.The Prime of Miss Jean Brodie was probably one of my favourite books

:14:53. > :14:57.from school, going with that because of the nice memories. That is

:14:58. > :15:02.something so lovely about reading a book. You can lose yourself in

:15:03. > :15:07.another role for a length of time, but is a good egg judged by volume

:15:08. > :15:12.of sales or by what the critics say? -- but is a good book. It depends

:15:13. > :15:16.what you say about a good book, it is quite a broad term, so you will

:15:17. > :15:23.have people talking about the popular books, and people like Ian

:15:24. > :15:28.Rankin, crime novelist who sells more than a literary novelist would,

:15:29. > :15:32.so always that distinction between a quality piece of fiction and an

:15:33. > :15:36.entertainment. I've never really understood that. I always think

:15:37. > :15:40.books that entertain, so if you are entertained by a literary novel,

:15:41. > :15:47.that's great, and also if it is a crime novel. For me, it is

:15:48. > :15:53.All-Blacks. The top ten books rented in Glasgow are mostly crime. -- for

:15:54. > :15:56.me, it is all books. Maybe it does not matter what you read, as long as

:15:57. > :15:57.you do it. Well, I've been speaking

:15:58. > :16:02.to Jenny Niven, who's Head of Literature

:16:03. > :16:03.at Creative Scotland. And Lesley McDowell,

:16:04. > :16:05.who's a literary critic for The Herald among others,

:16:06. > :16:11.about that list. Jennie, you weren't involved in

:16:12. > :16:17.drawing up the initial list of 30 books, what do you make of the top

:16:18. > :16:21.ten the Public chose? On one level I thought it was fantastic just to see

:16:22. > :16:26.the range, all kinds of things in there, experimental fiction, crime

:16:27. > :16:31.thrillers, so many great stories well told, and all the lots of

:16:32. > :16:37.classics you really wanted to see in there, those were there, but on the

:16:38. > :16:39.other hand, there was quite a lot of diversity and richness and

:16:40. > :16:45.interesting stuff on the long list of 30 that did not make the cut, so

:16:46. > :16:49.it was always going to be highly contentious, but a good list in the

:16:50. > :17:03.end, but a few I would have liked to see make it higher up the list. Give

:17:04. > :17:07.us a couple of examples? Goodness! The Trick Is To Keep Breathing is

:17:08. > :17:15.probably my favourite, but I might change. Some of the others, some of

:17:16. > :17:22.the newer titles, such as by Jenny Fagan, Panoptican, it would be good

:17:23. > :17:28.to see that they are. Is this just based on literary merits? One of the

:17:29. > :17:32.things about being asked to draw up a long list, it is how you can

:17:33. > :17:39.interpret that question as to what is a favourite book. Is it the most

:17:40. > :17:44.read? Most borrowed from libraries? Most critically acclaimed? Most

:17:45. > :17:48.often doubted for the screen? Different ways to approach that, and

:17:49. > :17:54.we had to be a lot more catholic in the approach to it. -- most often

:17:55. > :18:00.adapted. Trying to approach it from a different angle. And you could

:18:01. > :18:04.approach it from sales, and say that Harry Potter should be at the top,

:18:05. > :18:09.but Sunset Song made it to the top, maybe because we all read it at

:18:10. > :18:13.school? It was read at school, generally topping lists for Scottish

:18:14. > :18:17.books, it has for the last few years, it has become very popular

:18:18. > :18:23.and the film that came out recently with not have done it any harm. I

:18:24. > :18:30.agree with Jenny, the long list had really inventive titles in it. And

:18:31. > :18:37.any list that puts together, JK Rowling and others together, you may

:18:38. > :18:43.not see them together, and if somebody reads some of us because of

:18:44. > :18:47.this list, as far as I am concerned at is worth it. But the short list,

:18:48. > :18:55.I'm disappointed there are only a couple of women on it for a start.

:18:56. > :18:58.That is a point, in 30, you try to get a balance of gender, but

:18:59. > :19:05.whittling down to the top ten, that did not quite work out. It asks the

:19:06. > :19:10.question, how do you create a classic? Some things we could put on

:19:11. > :19:15.the list because of the impact of the writing, Hywel Poole story was

:19:16. > :19:21.told, but not necessarily -- home well the story was told, but maybe

:19:22. > :19:26.some we were not comfortable about what was the best Scottish book, it

:19:27. > :19:32.is complex, but we had a much more balanced book, 17 men, 13 women, so

:19:33. > :19:39.it was not 50-50, but much closer and in the final short list, you had

:19:40. > :19:43.eight by men, two by women, only a few with female characters at the

:19:44. > :19:47.heart of the story, not reflective of the long list. But there is

:19:48. > :19:55.anxiety about what we can say is the most important book. Definitely,

:19:56. > :19:59.looking at the canon of Scottish books has changed recently, but

:20:00. > :20:05.things like The Thirty Nine Steps and those slightly safer titles made

:20:06. > :20:09.it onto the list. Yes, and listening to that report, in Glasgow

:20:10. > :20:13.libraries, crime dominates the top ten in terms of what people borrow.

:20:14. > :20:21.Do you think that is becoming accepted as part of the Scottish

:20:22. > :20:31.canon, the soft top tartan noir genre? I hope so, and looking at the

:20:32. > :20:35.likes of The Private Memoirs and Confessions of a Justified Sinner,

:20:36. > :20:42.but the question is about whether it is an important book or a favourite

:20:43. > :20:45.book, that is slightly different. A favourite book does engender some

:20:46. > :20:51.Conservatives, because favourite quite often means what you find most

:20:52. > :20:56.comforting for legible or whatever. But some of the titles in that list

:20:57. > :21:01.are very tricky and challenging, as Jenny said, such as Lanark in there,

:21:02. > :21:05.very experimental, but in a favourite novel, it can be something

:21:06. > :21:09.you find very likeable and also a number of titles in the short list

:21:10. > :21:14.have been films and film and television makes a massive

:21:15. > :21:19.difference. Do you think people are also determine to pick novels with a

:21:20. > :21:25.definite Scottish team? Harry Potter was in the top ten, but is it a

:21:26. > :21:29.Scottish novel as such? There were discussions on Facebook about

:21:30. > :21:34.whether it is classed as a Scottish novel, and interesting how the film

:21:35. > :21:41.linked it with Edinburgh as it did, but you could argue, as is cottage

:21:42. > :21:46.novel, yes, but its popularity partly due to film and TV, I think

:21:47. > :21:50.it is a little bit questionable. -- as a Scottish novel. But when you

:21:51. > :21:59.look at Jordan is literature, I would like to see others. -- look at

:22:00. > :22:03.children's literature. What is your personal favourite, Jenny? My

:22:04. > :22:07.goodness! I love that The Prime of Miss Jean Brodie was there. But I

:22:08. > :22:16.would have another Muriel Spark novel, the comfort of strangers. But

:22:17. > :22:24.Lanark also would be close to my top ten. But I will stick with the trick

:22:25. > :22:29.is to keep breathing, I think that is probably the book that had the

:22:30. > :22:34.most impact on me at the time I read it and has just changed the way I be

:22:35. > :22:35.better since. Jenny Niven and Lesley McDowell, thank you both very much

:22:36. > :22:37.indeed. Well, let's find out what our news

:22:38. > :22:39.reviewers' favourite books are. I'm joined by the editor

:22:40. > :22:42.of The Big Issue, Paul McNamee, and the editor of the Common Space

:22:43. > :22:52.website Angela Haggerty. You are a big Muriel Spark fan,

:22:53. > :22:57.Paul, because you are in your prime? I am a big Muriel Spark fan but I

:22:58. > :23:11.favourite book was not on the list and was not mentioned. It is Ba. And

:23:12. > :23:21.equally and also Ballad of Peckham Wry. And also Laidlad by William

:23:22. > :23:31.McIlvanney. Difficult to read, Laidlaw? Not at all. Angela, what

:23:32. > :23:35.was your favourite? I was pleased to see Trainspotting made the list and

:23:36. > :23:40.I am a big Harry Potter fan. Did you like Harry Potter because you had

:23:41. > :23:44.seen the movie? No, I had read the book and it is cheeky, I used it as

:23:45. > :23:48.one of my coursework books when I studied English at secondary school,

:23:49. > :23:55.as I thought it would be funny to abort some of the characters. That

:23:56. > :23:59.is my Trainspotting story. Let us talk about the care system, on

:24:00. > :24:04.Saturday, you got the feeling this means a lot to Nicola Sturgeon?

:24:05. > :24:08.Clearly, it was very emotional, and as the guest you had earlier who

:24:09. > :24:12.were speaking to her, they can vouch for that, something close to her

:24:13. > :24:17.heart. And it is good and important that this is really crap and

:24:18. > :24:22.something happens because there is this gap that kids come out of care,

:24:23. > :24:27.at 18, are kind of left, or coming out of foster care, looked after

:24:28. > :24:32.until 21, and for those of us lucky enough to have a supportive family

:24:33. > :24:36.network, we don't think twice at 18, doors are opening and opportunities

:24:37. > :24:40.present, kids coming out of care without that network, that is a

:24:41. > :24:45.terrible indictment on us, on society, that where not doing more

:24:46. > :24:49.to help them. You don't normally see leaders at conference being quite so

:24:50. > :24:53.emotional and Nicola Sturgeon, by her own admission, quite a shy

:24:54. > :24:59.politician and somebody who does not often show emotions, quite a change

:25:00. > :25:03.from her? I was really struck by it. I was at the conference covering it

:25:04. > :25:08.and when Nicola Sturgeon came off of the stage after the speech and she

:25:09. > :25:12.went down and embraced some of the young people there, and the motion

:25:13. > :25:16.was so visible, so many people crying and really hugging Nicola

:25:17. > :25:21.Sturgeon, hanging on to her, and you could see how much it meant to them.

:25:22. > :25:26.And as a hard-hearted journalist, I felt that was quite moving and

:25:27. > :25:31.something that was unusual to see. It was very, very sincere, it did

:25:32. > :25:36.not seem orchestrated or choreographed, as political

:25:37. > :25:40.conferences often are, a genuine display of emotion. And maybe being

:25:41. > :25:43.listened to for the first time? Absolutely, what those young people

:25:44. > :25:48.have said is they feel Nicola Sturgeon has not just done the bread

:25:49. > :25:53.and butter politics, but has heard what they have had to say and taken

:25:54. > :25:57.it on board. It will be interesting to see what the details of the

:25:58. > :26:03.review will be like and how it will be led. With your big issue hats on,

:26:04. > :26:07.I imagine giving some of the lack of opportunity jump people have spoken

:26:08. > :26:11.about, many will end up homeless? Yes, and about 30% of people leaving

:26:12. > :26:20.care find themselves homeless. That is absolutely be clear -- the case

:26:21. > :26:25.for members of the bigger issue -- The Big Issue. And some people have

:26:26. > :26:29.not find a place within key and broken family homes have meant that

:26:30. > :26:35.the system was not there to help them at all. It is a massive...

:26:36. > :26:40.Everything in early stages has a massive impact on what comes later.

:26:41. > :26:49.25th anniversary of The Big Issue, you have an interview with Theresa

:26:50. > :26:54.May, pledging I think ?40 million at tackling the causes of homelessness.

:26:55. > :27:01.Quite significant? I think it is significant. Prevention as a means

:27:02. > :27:06.of moving forward is something we believe in and it is refreshing to

:27:07. > :27:11.hear the Prime Minister advocate that and follow our lead. Quite how

:27:12. > :27:13.that will go, I'm not sure. ?40 million is not a massive figure, so

:27:14. > :27:16.we will see how that plays out. Ukip's Steven Woolfe announced

:27:17. > :27:18.earlier today that he has withdrawn his application

:27:19. > :27:20.to contest the party leadership. The MEP, who spent

:27:21. > :27:22.three nights in hospital after a row with a party colleague,

:27:23. > :27:32.is also quitting the party. There are no hopes as far as I'm

:27:33. > :27:36.concerned. I will be withdrawing my application to become leader of Ukip

:27:37. > :27:41.will stop I can withdrawing myself from Ukip. You are resigning from

:27:42. > :27:46.the party? I am resigning with immediate effect and I do not think

:27:47. > :27:53.at this stage Ukip is gullible. That can make them achieve what they

:27:54. > :27:58.have. -- is government will. I have to look after my health at this

:27:59. > :28:00.time. Do you think the party can resurrect itself? Difficult to see

:28:01. > :28:08.but it seems to be in turmoil. Steven Woolfe not only have we had

:28:09. > :28:13.the latest tobacco, but when Diane James was elected leader, he had

:28:14. > :28:17.tried to be part of that. -- the latest problems. But he missed the

:28:18. > :28:23.deadline for and the sea, so we have gone from that fiasco to Diane James

:28:24. > :28:30.being elected Tom acquitting 18 days later, -- being elected and quitting

:28:31. > :28:34.18 days later, then the site, it is an incredible spiral Ukip seems to

:28:35. > :28:39.be in, fighting between rival factions. It is difficult to know

:28:40. > :28:43.what the future of Ukip will be. Brexit has been achieved, a big

:28:44. > :28:49.objective, so it is finding what Ukip thinks its role will be after

:28:50. > :28:53.Brexit. But these should be on a high, in large part responsible for

:28:54. > :28:58.that successful Brexit vote? Yes, but I do think they are finished. It

:28:59. > :29:01.was always the field that rather than being apolitical party they

:29:02. > :29:04.were a pressure group with a charismatic leader. They were

:29:05. > :29:07.incredibly well funded and because of that they were able to get into

:29:08. > :29:12.places where other traditional parties were not able to get into

:29:13. > :29:16.and sucked up a lot of ports and able to say they were bigger than

:29:17. > :29:20.they had the mechanism to be. Now the chickens are coming home to

:29:21. > :29:25.wrist, fighting with themselves, the public, fighting in private, no one

:29:26. > :29:27.knows what is going on, Steven Woolfe withdrawing himself, even the

:29:28. > :29:35.language used is borderline farcical. I cannot see where it Ukip

:29:36. > :29:41.going next except scattered to the winds. And aside from the infighting

:29:42. > :29:44.in the party, where does Ukip set on the political spectrum when Theresa

:29:45. > :29:49.May is arguably stealing a lot of their clothes? It seems to be an

:29:50. > :29:53.Steven Woolfe has said that part of his spat with Mike was he thought

:29:54. > :29:57.about going to the Conservative Party, so it seems like that might

:29:58. > :30:03.be a natural home, but some people might think Ukip still has a role in

:30:04. > :30:09.Brexit negotiations, campaigning for a hard Brexit and also the case that

:30:10. > :30:11.there will be... We will need to leave it there, we are right out of

:30:12. > :30:12.time. Thank you very much. That's it for tonight.

:30:13. > :30:14.Thanks for watching. I'm back again tomorrow

:30:15. > :30:16.night, usual time. So do please join me then,

:30:17. > :30:21.Goodbye.