:00:00. > :00:29.Nicola Sturgeon has said she feels deeply
:00:30. > :00:32.frustrated by talks with the Prime Minister over Brexit.
:00:33. > :00:37.So, what now for Scotland's place in the negotiations?
:00:38. > :00:39.And how will leaving the EU impact on Scotland's scientific
:00:40. > :00:52.A very frank exchange of views, is how Nicola Sturgeon described it.
:00:53. > :00:56.Raging might have been the less diplomatic response.
:00:57. > :01:02.The two governments appear as far apart as ever after today's meeting.
:01:03. > :01:04.The First Minister continues to demand a deal which will keep
:01:05. > :01:09.And the Prime Minister insists she'll adopt a UK
:01:10. > :01:11.negotiating position, whatever that might be.
:01:12. > :01:14.All the leaders of the devolved administrations agreed
:01:15. > :01:16.they were none the wiser after today's meeting.
:01:17. > :01:34.And shade's resident cat has probably seen and heard a lot in
:01:35. > :01:38.this time but today he seems to have trouble getting into the Brexit 's
:01:39. > :01:42.meeting. And if you run a devolved nation like Nicola Sturgeon this was
:01:43. > :01:46.the place to be. Welsh First Minister Carwyn Jones also arrived
:01:47. > :01:50.for talks with Prime Minister Theresa May as did Arlene Foster who
:01:51. > :01:54.heads the Government of Northern Ireland. They each laid out there
:01:55. > :01:58.demands to the Prime Minister before she properly starts the Brexit
:01:59. > :02:04.process. Nicola Sturgeon want Scotland to remain in the EU single
:02:05. > :02:08.market even if the UK does not but she expressed frustration as today's
:02:09. > :02:12.meeting. I am hearing a warm words from the UK Government but not yet
:02:13. > :02:15.seeing those warm words backed up by substance or action. That is what
:02:16. > :02:20.has got to change in the weeks ahead. I am going to continue to
:02:21. > :02:23.conduct the Scottish Government's contribution to this process in good
:02:24. > :02:30.faith. We are going to try as much as we can to steer the UK as a whole
:02:31. > :02:34.away from a damaging hard Brexit. Carwyn Jones also wants full access
:02:35. > :02:38.to the single market even though Wales waters to leave the EU. He
:02:39. > :02:44.said any deal must be backed by every part of the UK. We do not want
:02:45. > :02:48.to be in a position that this disagreement as the UK is
:02:49. > :02:52.negotiating ought to be in a position where devolved restrictions
:02:53. > :02:57.could not support the final Agreement. I start from the position
:02:58. > :03:01.of let's see what we can do to make sure the UK has a stronger hand.
:03:02. > :03:05.Arlene Foster has argued for free movement for British and Irish
:03:06. > :03:10.citizens across the post Brexit border. She said getting involved in
:03:11. > :03:14.the talks was vital. What is important for us is that we are part
:03:15. > :03:18.of that process so that that there are unintended consequences that
:03:19. > :03:21.appear for Northern Ireland is that we can certainly be part of trying
:03:22. > :03:24.to deal with those unintended consequences. That is what is
:03:25. > :03:27.important for us in Northern Ireland that we do what is right from the
:03:28. > :03:31.people of Northern Ireland and for the future of Northern Ireland.
:03:32. > :03:40.After the meeting Theresa May headed to the House of Commons to update
:03:41. > :03:42.MPs. Statements, the Prime Minister. Scottish ministers have accused the
:03:43. > :03:47.Prime Minister of not listening to their concerns. Theresa May said
:03:48. > :03:53.that is exactly what happened today. She also criticised the plans for
:03:54. > :03:57.another Independence Referendum. All I would say when he refers to the
:03:58. > :04:01.possibility of yet another referendum in relation to Scottish
:04:02. > :04:04.independence, I suggest that he wants to ensure the future
:04:05. > :04:11.prosperity of the Scottish economy, he just looked at the fact that
:04:12. > :04:15.actually Scotland has more imports and trade arrangements with the rest
:04:16. > :04:21.of the United Kingdom than it does with the European Union. It is first
:04:22. > :04:26.and foremost should desire to remain part of the United Kingdom. Larry
:04:27. > :04:28.eventually - into number ten. Maybe he has figured out the plan for
:04:29. > :04:31.Brexit. Andrew Black there.
:04:32. > :04:40.I've been talking to two veterans of that campaign
:04:41. > :04:42.for their take on the progress John Edward who was a spokesman
:04:43. > :04:46.for Scotland Stronger In - and Tom Harris who was Director
:04:47. > :04:53.of Scottish Vote Leave. Tom Harris, exactly four months on
:04:54. > :04:59.from the referendum result, do you think we should have been further on
:05:00. > :05:03.in the negotiation process? I do not think so particularly. This Article
:05:04. > :05:06.50 is going to be triggered by the end of next March that Smith and the
:05:07. > :05:12.deadlines that most people envisaged. The really is not a hurry
:05:13. > :05:14.is what most people are saying. This is a big move, we need to think
:05:15. > :05:19.about this carefully rather than speed them up. Do you not understand
:05:20. > :05:23.why people might be frustrated? We are going to be talking about
:05:24. > :05:26.science tonight. There are lots of scientists soon they are buried her
:05:27. > :05:30.future funding is coming from, there are lots of investment decisions
:05:31. > :05:34.that companies might want to take, and restart the stage do not know
:05:35. > :05:38.what the UK Government's negotiating position is. I totally understand
:05:39. > :05:41.the frustration. If the Government were to come out tomorrow with more
:05:42. > :05:45.detail of the negotiating position I would welcome that. But we are
:05:46. > :05:52.talking here about democracy. The country made a decision in June, a
:05:53. > :05:55.very important decision, that has massive ramifications, and although
:05:56. > :05:59.I sympathise with scientists and academia, with businesses, the most
:06:00. > :06:03.important thing is that the democratic will of the people of
:06:04. > :06:08.Britain is enacted. That does take time and people are going to have to
:06:09. > :06:11.be patient. John, what did you make of the talks today, do you think
:06:12. > :06:16.more should have come out of them? Yes, everybody had a right to know
:06:17. > :06:20.from back in January what it is people think Brexit means. Of course
:06:21. > :06:27.it is raked the democratic will of the people is recognised. I accept
:06:28. > :06:30.that. The trouble is all very well saying it but if nobody from any of
:06:31. > :06:34.the devolved administrations or any other walk of life can get any sense
:06:35. > :06:38.of what that means it does not help. Simply saying we will not sure our
:06:39. > :06:42.hand because it might give the other side an advantage, this is not a
:06:43. > :06:45.game of poker, this is a straightforward negotiation between
:06:46. > :06:49.support of the 27 courses partners. But we do know what Brexit means,
:06:50. > :07:01.these being out of the European single market and having control
:07:02. > :07:04.over our own borders. So we are told that is not what some people ten
:07:05. > :07:06.Downing St one. This is not a party political issue. This is about what
:07:07. > :07:10.people are going to get from this process. We are trying to work to
:07:11. > :07:13.get the best out of us in terms of recognition of qualification,
:07:14. > :07:16.national security, movement of people, funding, environmental
:07:17. > :07:19.standards, all these things, and collaborates to know what is being
:07:20. > :07:23.put on the table by the Government of the day. Tom Harris, is not the
:07:24. > :07:27.entire reason we have in this mess is that unlike the Scottish
:07:28. > :07:31.Independence Referendum, where there was a White Paper, we do not know
:07:32. > :07:35.what the plan for Brexit was? There was no agreed document about the way
:07:36. > :07:41.forward. You are the one saying it is a mess. I would object to that
:07:42. > :07:45.description. We are in a pre-negotiation period. I do not
:07:46. > :07:48.think it is this is sadly a mess. But the balls one campaign was not
:07:49. > :07:57.the Government. The Scottish Government to just about liberty
:07:58. > :08:04.tone -- the Leave campaign was not the Government. There was no White
:08:05. > :08:10.Paper to be enacted by any Government. This debate about what
:08:11. > :08:13.Brexit actually means, most orderly voters, unlike politicians,
:08:14. > :08:16.understand what leaving an organisation means. It means first
:08:17. > :08:20.of all you do not get a seat at the management committee, you do not pay
:08:21. > :08:24.the membership fee anymore, you do not have to obey the rules of the
:08:25. > :08:29.club. There were guidance about whether there was a middle way,
:08:30. > :08:33.could he be in the European economic area, be like Norway? There are so
:08:34. > :08:37.many fundamental questions that have not been answered. Yes, and as you
:08:38. > :08:42.say it is only four months. It'll be another two and a half years before
:08:43. > :08:46.we finally leave EU. I know people are frustrated but given that we
:08:47. > :08:49.have been in the EU for 40 years, given how comforting as it will be
:08:50. > :08:56.to extricate ourselves and to negotiate a new trade deal, it would
:08:57. > :09:00.be massively optimistic to assume that four months from the vault we
:09:01. > :09:04.would have a huge amount of detail about how that is going to look.
:09:05. > :09:08.John Edward, what do you think about Nicola Sturgeon's negotiating stance
:09:09. > :09:13.with the UK Government? When reported that was clear the question
:09:14. > :09:16.was should the UK remain a member of the EU? It was not should the rest
:09:17. > :09:21.of the UK remain a member and Scotland have a different deal. What
:09:22. > :09:24.the first verse six to do for Scotland and for her party members
:09:25. > :09:29.is entirely her rights just as carbon jewels were seeking to do, as
:09:30. > :09:34.was Arlene Foster Martin McGuinness. That is not the issue, it is not
:09:35. > :09:37.party political, people are trying to identify what things they can
:09:38. > :09:40.hold onto. We were told all these things were going to happen after
:09:41. > :09:45.the referendum. It is not strictly that nobody from Leave was coming up
:09:46. > :09:54.with ideas because there was a certain bus with numbers on it, men
:09:55. > :09:58.and pricing of whisky, all sorts of things where there was no evidence
:09:59. > :10:02.and juice and on the other side things have started to happen which
:10:03. > :10:07.we warned off, Microsoft, Nissan, all sorts of people. It is a small
:10:08. > :10:11.drip, drip, that is why they do have some sense of what is being
:10:12. > :10:15.negotiated. Let us stick to the negotiations between Scotland and
:10:16. > :10:18.the UK Government. Tom Harris, is it not fair enough Nicola Sturgeon to
:10:19. > :10:22.see Scotland voted to remain in the European Union and that should be
:10:23. > :10:27.respected? There should be a separate deal for Scotland. Scotland
:10:28. > :10:34.did not vote for Scotland to remain, Scottish voters voted for the UK to
:10:35. > :10:37.remain by 62-38%. Your site could only muster 38%. We lost the debate
:10:38. > :10:45.in London as well and the Northern Ireland. We as a country of Scotland
:10:46. > :10:51.agreed in 2014 to stay in the UK and that meant that certain decisions on
:10:52. > :10:55.future were going to be taken on a UK basis, that included this EU
:10:56. > :11:01.referendum. There was no ambiguity. Even on a tactical front is Theresa
:11:02. > :11:05.May does not give some grounds does she not risked triggering a second
:11:06. > :11:09.Independence Referendum? So we are told. My view is we have spent the
:11:10. > :11:13.last 20 years conceding at every turn to the Nationalists. From what
:11:14. > :11:18.I can see from this perspective that has not exactly shored up the
:11:19. > :11:21.strength of the union. John, as is practical for different parts of the
:11:22. > :11:24.United Kingdom to come to different deals? You cannot have Scotland and
:11:25. > :11:28.the single market with the movement of Labour and the rest of the UK out
:11:29. > :11:33.of the single market without some kind of hard border? There are
:11:34. > :11:35.practical problems. There are practical problems already. We
:11:36. > :11:40.raised the issue of Ireland during the campaign and were laughed away.
:11:41. > :11:43.It is not unusual for other countries in the States of European
:11:44. > :11:47.Union to have differential agreements. Look at Flanders in
:11:48. > :11:53.Belgium. At the Prime Minister, does not matter from which party, says
:11:54. > :11:56.the devolved will have their rule from start to finish, they have to
:11:57. > :12:00.have a role. That is the purpose of the Scotland Act and treating the
:12:01. > :12:04.Assembly. Tom Palmer Southers spent six months going around Scotland
:12:05. > :12:07.telling us one of the great upsides of leaving the European Union would
:12:08. > :12:11.be that more power to be devolved to the Scottish Parliament. Now we are
:12:12. > :12:14.told the Scottish Parliament will not get a look into this at all. We
:12:15. > :12:15.need to leave it there. Thank you very much.
:12:16. > :12:18.It's not just Nicola Sturgeon who's concerned about a lack
:12:19. > :12:22.Tonight the principal of Glasgow University
:12:23. > :12:25.says it could imperil Scotland's universities.
:12:26. > :12:27.The Scottish Government's chief scientific adviser
:12:28. > :12:29.says it's worrying, and the University of the Highlands
:12:30. > :12:32.and Islands is having to put major projects on hold until the funding
:12:33. > :12:45.Our science correspondent Kenneth Macdonald has this report.
:12:46. > :12:51.Scottish science punches above its weight. We get a bigger share of the
:12:52. > :12:56.UK science budget than the size of our population might suggest. Why?
:12:57. > :13:04.Because we are good at it. The Scottish Enlightenment developed
:13:05. > :13:11.great minds including James clerk Maxwell, who influenced Einstein.
:13:12. > :13:15.More than 1 billion euros has been attracted from the EU in the past
:13:16. > :13:28.ten years. In European funding as in the UK Scottish research attracts
:13:29. > :13:32.more than our population share. The current programme, high-rise and
:13:33. > :13:38.2020 has brought us almost 300 million so far. But includes support
:13:39. > :13:41.for arts, humanities, social sciences as well although much of
:13:42. > :13:45.this money would have began its journey in the UK economy. While
:13:46. > :13:53.Brexit may mean Brexit what will it mean for Scottish research? Perhaps
:13:54. > :14:03.even more than all those euros. Two in the top 100, four to five in the
:14:04. > :14:06.top 200, that is an asset that we do not want to lose and it could be in
:14:07. > :14:11.peril. In part that is about funding. The most important thing is
:14:12. > :14:17.the free movement of people. Free movement of people to attract
:14:18. > :14:24.talented researchers to Scotland is key to maintaining our leading
:14:25. > :14:29.position in the world. It is of course worrying for us because size
:14:30. > :14:37.does not respect borders. I know from my own research background. It
:14:38. > :14:43.is true in many fields of science. Much of it involves international
:14:44. > :14:44.collaboration. Collaboration is important to the scientific
:14:45. > :14:52.community. The countdown to Brexit is yet to
:14:53. > :14:57.begin but its effects on research are already being felt in many
:14:58. > :15:02.respects. One university thinks it has the most to lose. One example,
:15:03. > :15:10.we are waiting on the go-ahead to start a major project with EU
:15:11. > :15:15.funding. About ?22.9 million -- 20 2p. The soot skills gaps in the
:15:16. > :15:18.labour market in the Highlands and Islands and a large part of that
:15:19. > :15:23.will be funding higher level qualifications including quite a
:15:24. > :15:30.substantial number of graduate places, postgraduate places and
:15:31. > :15:34.doctorates -- ?29.2 million. We know a lot of that funding has been
:15:35. > :15:39.confirmed in the short-term but a doctor up the four years. We cannot
:15:40. > :15:43.start any of these major projects when we do not know if the funding
:15:44. > :15:50.will be confirmed 100% long-term. Are there any up sides? Science is
:15:51. > :15:53.international and resilient. Scotland played a role in the two
:15:54. > :16:00.biggest breakthroughs the century, the Higgs boson and the discovery of
:16:01. > :16:05.waves. Both are far bigger than the EU, those collaborations. Scotland
:16:06. > :16:08.may be able to buy back into the EU research project after Brexit. One
:16:09. > :16:14.of the best things post-referendum that has happened, not only by the
:16:15. > :16:17.Scottish Government, the Scottish Parliament and Scottish society at
:16:18. > :16:22.large, reasserting its welcoming and outward looking nature. I think that
:16:23. > :16:26.is something we have reinforced in the university from the 24th of June
:16:27. > :16:48.and other universities have done the same. The UK Government says...
:16:49. > :16:56.But research projects can take years to setup and decades to run. That
:16:57. > :16:59.seems a poor fit for the Brexit timetable. I think it is very
:17:00. > :17:04.difficult to tell because again it is difficult to know where this
:17:05. > :17:07.journey will take us. Are different ways negotiations could go,
:17:08. > :17:12.different outcomes and positions we could find ourselves in and saw a
:17:13. > :17:17.lot will depend on exactly what happens in terms of negotiation, how
:17:18. > :17:21.that affects the way projects will go, relationships will go, and that
:17:22. > :17:25.is something we simply do not know yet. Scottish science has always
:17:26. > :17:29.attracted great minds like Lord Kelvin and has been doing so since
:17:30. > :17:33.long before the European Union came into existence and will probably
:17:34. > :17:36.continue doing so afterwards, but what is happening with Brexit is it
:17:37. > :17:41.has opened up the whole world of uncertainty. We may not know exactly
:17:42. > :17:43.what is under threat, if anything, but we do know there is a lot at
:17:44. > :17:55.stake. I have been speaking to Professor
:17:56. > :17:58.Sir Ian Diamond, Vice principal of the University of Aberdeen. A lot of
:17:59. > :18:05.Scotland's scientific achievements have been possible without EU
:18:06. > :18:09.funding, everything from Dolly the sheep, the Higgs boson, the
:18:10. > :18:11.gravitational waves. Why is EU funding so important? It is
:18:12. > :18:16.incredibly important at the moment. One of the things we have been able
:18:17. > :18:21.to do in the last few years is build partnerships and teams. Let's be
:18:22. > :18:25.honest. These days most of the great challenges we need, they need
:18:26. > :18:27.multidisciplinary teams, teams of researchers, and they need
:18:28. > :18:30.researchers which often are the best across Europe and cut across nation
:18:31. > :18:56.state boundaries. Therefore in order to get into the UK and
:18:57. > :19:02.presumably that includes scientist ??NOS PACE I very much hope so.
:19:03. > :19:07.Let's be clear. We work in a global market for the very best talent to
:19:08. > :19:10.work in our I very much hope so. Let's be clear. We work in a global
:19:11. > :19:17.market for the very best talent to work in our one of the jewel's in
:19:18. > :19:21.Scotland-- presumably that includes scientist much hope so. But does
:19:22. > :19:25.there need to be free movement in the European sense of the word? If
:19:26. > :19:28.Britain had its own immigration policy but said skilled workers and
:19:29. > :19:30.scientist. Yes, I very much hope so. But does there need to be free
:19:31. > :19:33.movement in the European sense of the word? If Britain had its own
:19:34. > :19:33.immigration policy but said skilled workers and
:19:34. > :19:39.scientist could move freely in and out of the UK, without the said
:19:40. > :19:43.earlier we work on a global labourer market and attract the very best
:19:44. > :19:47.talent from across the world so we need that freedom of movement from
:19:48. > :19:52.across the world and that is incredibly important in Europe as
:19:53. > :19:56.well. What kind of EU or European funds generally could be accessed if
:19:57. > :19:59.we were not in the EU any longer I think we have to be clear. As I said
:20:00. > :20:02.earlier we work on a global labourer market and attract the very best
:20:03. > :20:04.talent from across the world so we need that freedom of movement from
:20:05. > :20:07.across the world and that is incredibly important in Europe as
:20:08. > :20:10.well. What kind of EU or European funds generally could be accessed if
:20:11. > :20:12.we were not in the EU any I think there are different models. For
:20:13. > :20:14.example, Norway is a member of the European economic area which allows
:20:15. > :20:18.them to access research I think it is incredibly important the key
:20:19. > :20:22.players in research. We are one of the strongest research countries. In
:20:23. > :20:26.many ways, we do not just need access but need to be able to read
:20:27. > :20:29.as we do at the moment. I think it is incredibly important for
:20:30. > :20:34.knowledge generation, for the benefit of society in the UK and in
:20:35. > :20:37.indeed across the world that the UK is one of the key players in
:20:38. > :20:39.research. We are one of the strongest research countries. In
:20:40. > :20:42.many ways, we do not just need access but need to be able to read
:20:43. > :20:44.as we do at the moment. I think it is incredibly important for
:20:45. > :20:47.knowledge generation, for the benefit of society in the UK and in
:20:48. > :20:49.indeed across the but research is done on a truly international basis,
:20:50. > :20:51.not just with European countries? That is absolutely we need
:20:52. > :20:56.partnerships that go across the world. But to be clear for able to
:20:57. > :20:59.compete with the very best in the world and in fact lead them. That is
:21:00. > :21:02.what we need to continue to continue to be able to do. , we are able to
:21:03. > :21:05.build incredibly strong partnerships across Europe and as a result are
:21:06. > :21:08.able to compete with the very best in the world and in fact lead them.
:21:09. > :21:12.That is what we need to continue to be able to do is the priority now is
:21:13. > :21:15.to lobby the UK Government to say, look, we want you to match the
:21:16. > :21:18.funding we are currently getting from the I would not just say is not
:21:19. > :21:21.just about the money but about being able to build the partnerships as I
:21:22. > :21:23.have said continuously it is not just about the money but about being
:21:24. > :21:27.able to build the partnershipfor example, at the University of
:21:28. > :21:31.Aberdeen we are working on a to work on a teams from right across Europe
:21:32. > :21:34.working on this project MRI scanner which has teams from right across
:21:35. > :21:38.Europe working on this project. The important but it is about having
:21:39. > :21:42.that freedom to partner together and be able to apply for competitive
:21:43. > :21:47.research grants without double, triple or even quadruple jeopardy.
:21:48. > :21:50.Your negotiating position, briefly, is what incredibly important but it
:21:51. > :21:52.is about having the freedom to partner together and be able to
:21:53. > :21:54.apply for competitive research grants without double, triple or
:21:55. > :21:58.even quadruple jeopardy. Your negotiating position, briefly, is
:21:59. > :22:02.what are you looking for from the UK Government? The negotiating position
:22:03. > :22:04.has to with leadership the European freedom of movement for researchers
:22:05. > :22:08.and I would also argue that because we need to be generating the it has
:22:09. > :22:10.to be freedom of movement for researchers and I would also argue
:22:11. > :22:12.that because we need to be generating the next world-class
:22:13. > :22:15.researchers, we need movement for student as well and need to lobby
:22:16. > :22:24.for that to be part of the negotiating position. Thank you for
:22:25. > :22:26.joining us. It has been my world-class researchers, we need
:22:27. > :22:29.movement for student as well and need to lobby for that to be part of
:22:30. > :22:31.the negotiating position. Thank you for joining us. It has been my
:22:32. > :22:32.pleasure. Joining me to discuss
:22:33. > :22:34.the rest of today's stories are the broadcaster
:22:35. > :22:43.Liz Leonard and the model Pleasure. We have been we have been
:22:44. > :22:47.speaking. You think that will have a big impact? Yes, I think it will be
:22:48. > :22:51.crucial. My other half works at Strathclyde and I know discussions
:22:52. > :22:54.amongst his colleagues reflect what the other speakers from Aberdeen and
:22:55. > :22:56.Glasgow were speaking about. Interestingly, they were speaking in
:22:57. > :22:59.your piece impact on science funding. You think that will have a
:23:00. > :23:01.big impact? Yes, I think it will be crucial. My other half works at
:23:02. > :23:03.Strathclyde and I know discussions amongst his colleagues reflect what
:23:04. > :23:05.the other speakers from Aberdeen and Glasgow were speaking about.
:23:06. > :23:08.Interestingly, they were speaking in your the actual nature of the
:23:09. > :23:10.research the high level of academic input you were an academic, a really
:23:11. > :23:14.good strong academic in Europe, would you be at this point thinking,
:23:15. > :23:17.right, I will go to a job in Scotland? Because you're not quite
:23:18. > :23:22.certain what the position will be... It is not just about the pros and
:23:23. > :23:29.cons of Brexit but the uncertainty... Absolutely. And the
:23:30. > :23:32.funding is absolutely critical. The Arise in 2020 programme, the one
:23:33. > :23:41.referenced, it is the latest research framework -- Horizon 2020.
:23:42. > :23:47.That amounts to over 80 billion euros and the UK Government, nor the
:23:48. > :23:50.Scottish Government, has a huge track record of putting a lot into
:23:51. > :23:54.research. Research is really expensive. We are also speaking
:23:55. > :24:00.generally about Brexit and we were doing so earlier in the programme.
:24:01. > :24:03.Eunice, there is still this argument about whether the public were
:24:04. > :24:07.adequately informed about what Brexit meant. What do you think? One
:24:08. > :24:12.of the most I suppose primary concerns of people who voted, most
:24:13. > :24:14.people have voted, was actually immigration, and I think it is
:24:15. > :24:20.literally because of the impact on what they feel our social services
:24:21. > :24:25.that are available, but actually I think this might be misplaced
:24:26. > :24:31.because if we look at the fact that obviously David Cameron into the
:24:32. > :24:34.Right To Buy and so on, in one sense you are cutting the facilities
:24:35. > :24:38.available to the Council, and not building more houses, so I do think
:24:39. > :24:44.a lot of people are potentially looking at this and approaching it
:24:45. > :24:49.from perhaps the wrong direction. I do not think that necessarily Brexit
:24:50. > :24:54.will somehow and saw all of these significant issues that we have. And
:24:55. > :24:57.there was a poll done sometime ago suggesting the majority of the
:24:58. > :25:01.British public did not actually know the actual levels of immigration in
:25:02. > :25:04.this country. I think EU immigration is something like 5% and most people
:25:05. > :25:10.thought it was more like 15%. Definitely. There are other
:25:11. > :25:13.countries in the EU with far more immigrants they are taking in and I
:25:14. > :25:17.think we are one of the richest countries in the world and it should
:25:18. > :25:22.be imperative to us to do everything we can to help, especially when we
:25:23. > :25:31.are in such difficult times. About 2000 migrants have been moved away
:25:32. > :25:34.from the so-called Jungle in Calais today. The conditions there is
:25:35. > :25:37.absolutely appalling. Why has it taken so long for something to be
:25:38. > :25:43.done about it? A really good question. No one seems to be able to
:25:44. > :25:48.give the answer. 7000 people in that camp altogether and it has been
:25:49. > :25:53.there for three, four years, longer? Appalling conditions, and I think it
:25:54. > :25:59.shows both the French and UK governments have been very
:26:00. > :26:04.short-term about this. It is only now, and I was listening to the
:26:05. > :26:07.mayor of Calais earlier this evening, and basically her
:26:08. > :26:11.explanation was, well, the numbers are now too great so we have decided
:26:12. > :26:14.to do something about it, but actually something should have
:26:15. > :26:21.happened and some decisions taken about what to do with the different
:26:22. > :26:24.people, and some are economic migrants, and some are asylum
:26:25. > :26:28.seekers. There is a big difference between those tonight. Do you think
:26:29. > :26:33.the two governments could have done more, Eunice? Yes, definitely. I
:26:34. > :26:38.think there is so much we could have been doing in general on this topic.
:26:39. > :26:41.It is very difficult, a very difficult situation we are in, but I
:26:42. > :26:48.think the fact they have only done that now, it is quite discomforting
:26:49. > :26:53.in a sense because I really feel we are kind of losing this idea of
:26:54. > :26:58.humanity, and understanding, that ultimately we are all human beings
:26:59. > :27:02.and we all deserve and should have access to good opportunities to live
:27:03. > :27:08.our lives in a good way and if we really take into account the reality
:27:09. > :27:11.of the modern world we live in today, of capitalism, the history of
:27:12. > :27:16.capitalism and those European countries, particularly France, that
:27:17. > :27:20.benefited from things such as colonialism, then it becomes quite
:27:21. > :27:25.ridiculous we are now not allowing people to have access to the basic
:27:26. > :27:29.needs of life. There was a report from the British Council today
:27:30. > :27:32.suggesting women hold less than 30% of positions of power and influence
:27:33. > :27:40.in society despite the fact they make it more than half the UK
:27:41. > :27:43.population. I wonder... The Scottish Parliament, you have three female
:27:44. > :27:46.leaders, but I suppose the problem there is although there are three
:27:47. > :27:49.people in prominent positions of power, if you look at the General
:27:50. > :27:57.make-up of the Parliament I think it is only about 35% that is female. It
:27:58. > :28:01.is indeed, and only 24% of women... Of the councillors are women. On top
:28:02. > :28:08.of that only 36% of women are on boards where you can actually
:28:09. > :28:12.effected change. I think that is a problem in business rather than
:28:13. > :28:18.politics now. I think it is across the board. Given we have the Equal
:28:19. > :28:22.Pay Act of 1974 it is extraordinary women are still being played can --
:28:23. > :28:28.paid considerably less. It has a knock-on effect. We need women in
:28:29. > :28:33.positions of power and influence to... For example at the other end
:28:34. > :28:37.of the spectrum low skilled workers, predominately women, are carers and
:28:38. > :28:42.if you compare their pay with workers on a construction site, it
:28:43. > :28:45.is less. Yes, we hear about women long having broken that glass
:28:46. > :28:49.ceiling, but these figures suggest it is still there? And interesting
:28:50. > :28:53.dichotomy. On the one hand we are saying we want more women in these
:28:54. > :28:57.positions, but on the other hand if you look at the culture and ideology
:28:58. > :29:01.is perpetuated significantly through the media, it is actually
:29:02. > :29:05.reinforcing this stereotype that actually you can be more successful
:29:06. > :29:10.by not actually involving yourself in business but I actually paying
:29:11. > :29:14.more attention to your aesthetics and that sort of way of doing
:29:15. > :29:18.things, so it is very difficult for young women and women in general the
:29:19. > :29:22.kind of rise above that and I think we need to do much more to celebrate
:29:23. > :29:29.women in business over the world and certainly here in Scotland, and
:29:30. > :29:30.indeed in the United Kingdom. OK, Eunice and Liz, thank you both for
:29:31. > :29:31.coming onto the programme. We're back again tomorrow
:29:32. > :29:43.night, usual time. There's a brand-new way to stay on
:29:44. > :29:46.top of the Premier League action. We look ahead to the weekend's
:29:47. > :29:49.fixtures with insider knowledge and views from a host
:29:50. > :29:51.of football stars. For me, what I've seen in him,
:29:52. > :29:53.he's a good player. And, we go behind the scenes
:29:54. > :29:57.with some of the biggest names