25/10/2016

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:00:00. > :00:00.Political turbulence on the radar as a new runway gets

:00:00. > :00:25.the green light from the Westminster Government.

:00:26. > :00:32.The Scottish Government welcomes plans to expand Heathrow.

:00:33. > :00:36.Good news for business, but what about the environment?

:00:37. > :00:39.And the world has come to Edinburgh to discuss how to improve life

:00:40. > :00:53.It's just six years since climate change campaigners were proclaiming

:00:54. > :00:57.plans for a third runway at Heathrow "dead and buried"

:00:58. > :01:00.when David Cameron firmly ruled it out.

:01:01. > :01:03.Fast forward to today's furious pledges to see his successor

:01:04. > :01:06.Theresa May in court over her government's approval

:01:07. > :01:13.The decision has already prompted one Conservative MP to resign and -

:01:14. > :01:16.with her small parliamentary majority - it looks like

:01:17. > :01:19.there'll be trouble ahead for the Prime Minister.

:01:20. > :01:21.In a moment, we'll discuss the implications of all this

:01:22. > :01:30.for Scotland, but first, here's Andrew Black.

:01:31. > :01:38.A typical day in the skies over southern England, 3000 flights of

:01:39. > :01:43.six runways. That is now set to increase after the UK Government

:01:44. > :01:47.gave the go-ahead to a third runway at Heathrow. Ministers said the

:01:48. > :01:52.benefits would be huge. We believe the expansion of Heathrow airport

:01:53. > :01:55.and the North West runway scheme, in accommodation with a significant

:01:56. > :01:58.package of supporting measures on the scale recommended by the

:01:59. > :02:02.Airports Commission, offers the greatest level of benefit to

:02:03. > :02:06.passengers, business and to help us deliver the broadest possible

:02:07. > :02:11.benefit to the whole of the United Kingdom. But the announcement

:02:12. > :02:17.immediately caused a split in the UK Cabinet. I do think that building a

:02:18. > :02:21.third runway slap bang in the middle of the western suburbs of the

:02:22. > :02:25.greatest city on Earth is not the right thing to do. No other world

:02:26. > :02:29.city would dream of subjecting so many hundreds of thousands of people

:02:30. > :02:36.to more noise pollution in the way that the third runway would. And

:02:37. > :02:41.what I worry about is that down the line, if and when a third runway

:02:42. > :02:45.were to be built, but I don't think it would be, but suppose it would

:02:46. > :02:51.be, it would be an overwhelming, to build a fourth runway. --

:02:52. > :02:57.overwhelming clamour. Some local residents agree. My home will be 54

:02:58. > :03:01.pieces from the new boundary fence. It will be impossible to live there.

:03:02. > :03:06.I will be included in the 4500 homes that will be a terrible place to

:03:07. > :03:11.live. The people deserve a quality of life. It is not about money. They

:03:12. > :03:15.deserve a quality of life and there are serious health issues with

:03:16. > :03:19.living under flight paths. 460 schools will be under flight paths.

:03:20. > :03:22.But when it comes to another Heathrow runway, the Scottish

:03:23. > :03:26.Government wants it done as soon as possible. As things stand, because

:03:27. > :03:33.of the delays we have had, you seeing fellow development in Western

:03:34. > :03:38.Europe, in Holland and in Istanbul, that is the first to the UK. If we

:03:39. > :03:41.are to have those airports becoming the hub airport, that would be

:03:42. > :03:45.damaging to the environment and to jobs in Scotland. So my plea to the

:03:46. > :03:48.UK Government is to get on and do it as soon as possible. But bosses at

:03:49. > :03:52.Edinburgh airport reckoner runway will never be built. Instead, they

:03:53. > :03:57.want Scottish ministers to honour their pledge to cut air passenger

:03:58. > :04:01.duty. The biggest opportunity up here is that the Government follows

:04:02. > :04:05.through on that promise because that is holding us back selling to

:04:06. > :04:09.Chinese, American or European hairlines, we are still quite

:04:10. > :04:13.uncompetitive in tax terms. If we get that amounts we will put

:04:14. > :04:17.Heathrow on the back burner and wait until it falls over and make the

:04:18. > :04:20.point that Edinburgh and Scotland is a great place to connect. But

:04:21. > :04:24.Heathrow managers are confident the new runway will be built, including

:04:25. > :04:28.the possibility of a legal challenge, they expect it to be open

:04:29. > :04:29.in 2025. Well, I've been speaking

:04:30. > :04:32.to our Environment Correspondent, Kevin Keane, for his take

:04:33. > :04:41.on today's announcement. This seems to be good news for

:04:42. > :04:48.business. Surely it cannot be good for the environment? Well, indeed.

:04:49. > :04:53.And there is nobody within this who will make any other claim than to

:04:54. > :04:58.say that more aeroplanes in the sky, more aeroplanes taking off and

:04:59. > :05:03.landing at Heathrow, will result in more greenhouse gas emissions. And

:05:04. > :05:06.that simply a fact. What we have been hearing about today and during

:05:07. > :05:14.the lead up to this from Heathrow and others is about some of the

:05:15. > :05:17.offsetting measures, the big concern is a densely populated area around

:05:18. > :05:20.Heathrow is the amount of air pollution, ground level pollution,

:05:21. > :05:24.the amount that people in the immediate vicinity or on the

:05:25. > :05:29.property of Heathrow might breathe in. The reassurance that has been

:05:30. > :05:35.given is that this can be done, say some experts in the long term,

:05:36. > :05:38.without there being any increase in those pollution emissions. The way

:05:39. > :05:45.they say that will be done is by offsetting it, so for example,

:05:46. > :05:49.having fewer diesel cars in the area, there is a bit of a prediction

:05:50. > :05:53.that in the next ten years, there will be a significant shift from

:05:54. > :05:58.diesel and petrol cars into electric vehicles. Perhaps they might even

:05:59. > :06:02.have some kind of a zone within those areas, again, something that

:06:03. > :06:05.has been rolled out in different cities, to prevent the most

:06:06. > :06:09.polluting cars from entering that area around Heathrow. So that is,

:06:10. > :06:15.for example, one of the offsetting measures that will be carried out

:06:16. > :06:19.say Heathrow Airport, to reduce the amount of that ground level

:06:20. > :06:25.pollution in a city that is already one of the most polluted in Europe.

:06:26. > :06:28.But if there are going to be many more flights in and out of Scotland,

:06:29. > :06:35.how does that square with the Scottish Government's environmental

:06:36. > :06:38.commitments? Yes, because transport is a huge, huge area for governments

:06:39. > :06:43.and the Scottish Government to have to tackle over the next ten to 15

:06:44. > :06:47.years, to try to get those emissions down. A lot of the achievements that

:06:48. > :06:50.have been registered from the Scottish Government's perspective

:06:51. > :06:56.certainly over the last few years has been from the colonising the

:06:57. > :06:59.energy sector, so shutting down coal-fired power stations, and we

:07:00. > :07:05.are kind of around a limit of where we can deal with that, to try to

:07:06. > :07:10.achieve more. So to achieve any new target, we are really going to have

:07:11. > :07:14.to, and the Scottish Government will have to, look at other areas like

:07:15. > :07:18.agriculture, unlike transport, and like heating of homes. But transport

:07:19. > :07:23.is that key issue. I think what governments will say is that they

:07:24. > :07:27.will have to look at this in the round, much like you talk about

:07:28. > :07:33.offsetting increases in emissions from aeroplanes at Heathrow airport.

:07:34. > :07:37.There will be talk of increasing the amount of vehicles that are taken

:07:38. > :07:41.off the road, for example, emitting vehicles, so that might be more

:07:42. > :07:44.electric cars. There is already a commitment for there to be

:07:45. > :07:50.Scotland's first low emissions zone in a city summer in Scotland by the

:07:51. > :07:53.end of next year. And other measures that are being undertaken as well to

:07:54. > :07:59.try to achieve that. So it is all about it being in the round, but an

:08:00. > :08:02.acceptance that if, as is pretty much inevitable by the looks of it,

:08:03. > :08:07.unless there is any great change over the coming years in terms of

:08:08. > :08:10.emissions from aeroplanes, as though the targets for other areas of

:08:11. > :08:14.transportation will have to be much, much higher to meet some of those

:08:15. > :08:18.targets. So it is going to be difficult for the Scottish

:08:19. > :08:22.Government to reach its ambitious targets? It is going to be very

:08:23. > :08:26.difficult and they say that themselves. But on the early part of

:08:27. > :08:30.next year, there is a plan going to be rolled out in terms of how they

:08:31. > :08:36.will in very great detail go about trying to achieve that. But the

:08:37. > :08:37.environment groups and most people concerned say they are setting

:08:38. > :08:42.themselves very ambitious and difficult targets, and indeed,

:08:43. > :08:44.because they are difficult, they will be difficult to achieve.

:08:45. > :08:47.Well, there's been a clamour of voices today,

:08:48. > :08:50.talking about the economic impact of the new runway.

:08:51. > :08:52.To tell us what it means for Scotland, I'm joined

:08:53. > :08:54.by Stuart McIntyre from Strathclyde University's

:08:55. > :09:08.Good evening. Thank you for coming in. Is there any doubt that this is

:09:09. > :09:12.good for business in Scotland? Well, I think to the extent to which it is

:09:13. > :09:16.going to be good is going to be driven by the extent to which it

:09:17. > :09:21.increases our connection with the well, something like 70% of the UK's

:09:22. > :09:24.long haul flights depart from Heathrow so with the announcement

:09:25. > :09:29.today means that we have greater connectivity to the world, I think

:09:30. > :09:32.that is good. Of course, you can have connectivity, but if you do not

:09:33. > :09:36.have competition, that can erode the advantage of that, you know,

:09:37. > :09:42.competition in the airline market, that can erode the advantage of

:09:43. > :09:47.conductivity. So there are two Mac sites to this in terms of what is

:09:48. > :09:51.going to determine the overall impact ultimately on connectivity

:09:52. > :09:56.and productivity. Just to explain in practical terms, how exactly would

:09:57. > :10:00.an extra runway in London bring money into the Scottish economy? Who

:10:01. > :10:07.will benefit most? There are two things, one is the direct

:10:08. > :10:10.construction activity and both in terms of Scottish companies being

:10:11. > :10:15.involved and potentially through the supply change, what we got indirect

:10:16. > :10:19.effects, you can have the increase in activity stemming from that kind

:10:20. > :10:24.of activity, the extent to which that aggregates up to a sizeable

:10:25. > :10:28.impact, is going to depend on the competitors of Scottish firms, but

:10:29. > :10:38.the longer term, and it is worth bearing in mind what we're looking

:10:39. > :10:42.at here is an additional runway, and effects for the 25, 30, 40 years

:10:43. > :10:49.beyond that. Really, what is critical is connectivity and thus,

:10:50. > :10:54.if its impact on productivity. So, while there is the immediate

:10:55. > :10:57.construction costs and the benefit to Scottish firms of engaging in

:10:58. > :11:00.that, there is also I think the much more important longer term

:11:01. > :11:04.invocations of improving our connectivity to the world and

:11:05. > :11:10.increasing productivity both in Scotland and across the UK. A lot of

:11:11. > :11:14.these projections are far in the future and some of the songs talked

:11:15. > :11:20.about are very large, ?61 billion over six years. -- sums. Any idea

:11:21. > :11:25.what proportion of that we could expect to go back to Scotland? What

:11:26. > :11:31.the independent airport commission was, it did some work to look at the

:11:32. > :11:37.economic impacts of both the new runway at Gatwick and the extension

:11:38. > :11:41.and the new runway at Heathrow. That broke down those aggregate economic

:11:42. > :11:45.effects into three regions. London and the South East, the rest of

:11:46. > :11:48.England and the rest of the UK. Scotland, Wales and Northern

:11:49. > :11:54.Ireland's economic benefit was aggregated together. In the Quito

:11:55. > :12:02.new runway case, it came out about 66.5%. -- in the Heathrow. But

:12:03. > :12:11.again, I go back to, these are long-term effects, and with thinking

:12:12. > :12:16.about improvements in jobs and GDP in 2050, 2000 60. We heard Edinburgh

:12:17. > :12:21.airport saying a much better way in the short and to bring economic

:12:22. > :12:23.benefit to Scotland is for the Scottish Government doing them at

:12:24. > :12:29.the cut in air passenger duty. How much benefit might that bring? It is

:12:30. > :12:33.worth emphasising again, that is short-term. What the announcement

:12:34. > :12:38.today is about is long-term, and long-term economic growth.

:12:39. > :12:43.In the short term, yes, it is likely that the chief executive of

:12:44. > :12:46.Edinburgh airport is right that it will reduce costs for airlines

:12:47. > :12:51.wanting to fly in and out of Scottish airports. But one has gone

:12:52. > :12:55.to weigh that against what your virginity will cost. You are

:12:56. > :12:59.reducing that tax revenue. What the revenue will you try and increase?

:13:00. > :13:04.What spending Review reduce? In order to be able to balance that

:13:05. > :13:11.budget. It's not just a case of saying, OK, let's reduce air

:13:12. > :13:14.passenger duty. It has consequences. They think any Government or any

:13:15. > :13:20.party think about that kind of change is demonstrating world it

:13:21. > :13:23.will make the requisite adjustment in the budget. Whether it be

:13:24. > :13:25.reductions in spending or increases in taxation elsewhere. Thanks for

:13:26. > :13:28.coming in. The First Minister, Nicola Sturgeon,

:13:29. > :13:33.has opened an international conference on disability

:13:34. > :13:35.with a pledge to "redouble efforts Inclusion - at work and beyond -

:13:36. > :13:43.is the hot topic at this week's Rehabilitation International World

:13:44. > :13:48.Congress in Edinburgh. It has welcomed 1000 delegates

:13:49. > :13:51.from around the world. We'll hear the view

:13:52. > :14:05.from Norway in a moment - Her Royal Highness, the Princess

:14:06. > :14:10.Royal, delivering the opening speech could begin three days of debate.

:14:11. > :14:15.One of the issues they will be the fifth -- will be discussing here

:14:16. > :14:28.but what about other areas of life? The successful trio, for China and

:14:29. > :14:31.the UK, with a reflection on the amount of investment made. What I

:14:32. > :14:37.learned and what I take away from that is that if you invest in

:14:38. > :14:40.disabled people in employment and education, independent living and

:14:41. > :14:42.other areas of life, you will hit gold in those areas, too.

:14:43. > :14:45.Gathered here are some of the top disability experts on the road.

:14:46. > :14:47.They will be developing ideas that will influence

:14:48. > :14:58.There are massive cultural disabilities around the world as to

:14:59. > :15:08.how disability is approached, isn't there? Yes. How challenging is it?

:15:09. > :15:12.Very. There is no data to look at. We have to look a different country

:15:13. > :15:17.specifically. Developing countries face a lot more challenges than

:15:18. > :15:23.others. You know that a lot of different countries have ratified

:15:24. > :15:30.intervention with people with disabilities. They make a

:15:31. > :15:32.difference. With 1 million people in Scotland with a mental-health

:15:33. > :15:37.condition or disability, what can we learn from this week's conference?

:15:38. > :15:40.What Edinburgh can learn is to take on board and look at what other

:15:41. > :15:46.Having a forum like this, where you can have those conversations

:15:47. > :15:49.with people just sat around a table, like we are now,

:15:50. > :15:52.it is where you learn from each other, I think, more than anything.

:15:53. > :15:54.I think we need to also change our social access

:15:55. > :15:59.and our mentality around disability, because it is not just about having

:16:00. > :16:04.a really accessible venue for accessible coding,

:16:05. > :16:06.it is about staff having disability awareness training and having

:16:07. > :16:08.the right attitude to treat disabled people with

:16:09. > :16:25.For some will offer coming into Scottish Parliament, how can we use?

:16:26. > :16:31.We already are. We are setting up dedicated disabled funds for

:16:32. > :16:34.Scotland. We are looking to take away a lot of the indignities people

:16:35. > :16:38.currently suffer when going through assessment reassessments to provide

:16:39. > :16:42.more support for carers, helping those with disabilities fulfil their

:16:43. > :16:48.potential is. There's a whole range of things we can do and I'm

:16:49. > :16:52.determined that we will do them. 1000 delegates, 200 speakers from

:16:53. > :16:56.different countries, will be here until Thursday to find a new way of

:16:57. > :17:00.delivering services to an increasing disabled population.

:17:01. > :17:01.Ian Hamilton reporting from the conference in Edinburgh.

:17:02. > :17:03.We're joined now by the outgoing President

:17:04. > :17:05.of Rehabilitation International, Jan Monsbakken, who says it's time

:17:06. > :17:21.Good evening. Thank you. What exactly do you mean when you talk

:17:22. > :17:26.about inclusion? I think broadly about inclusion. They need to build

:17:27. > :17:31.an inclusive society to be able to include people with disability. You

:17:32. > :17:39.have to have a totally inclusive approach to society. If not, you

:17:40. > :17:43.will build up segregated support systems which, in the long run, will

:17:44. > :17:50.not benefit the rights of people with disabilities. Norway is seen as

:17:51. > :17:53.being a world leader in support of the board disabilities. Other things

:17:54. > :17:57.you think we could learn from the way things are done in your country?

:17:58. > :18:03.There is a couple of things that Norway is related at. We have... I

:18:04. > :18:09.think maybe the most effective and most good assistant for distributing

:18:10. > :18:12.assistive technology to people with disabilities, because it is

:18:13. > :18:19.regulated by law that, if you are entitled to have assisted devices,

:18:20. > :18:23.you will get delivery and it will be fast. In that respect, we are very

:18:24. > :18:31.good. Of course, we also have three good economic support systems to

:18:32. > :18:36.people that are not able to work. But I will not only mention what is

:18:37. > :18:41.good in Norway. We are still not good enough to put people with

:18:42. > :18:47.disabilities into the workforce. It is around 80 90,000 Norwegian people

:18:48. > :18:52.with disabilities who would be happy to work but cannot do so. -- 80,000

:18:53. > :18:59.- 90,000. Employers do not employ them. So, as one person in the film

:19:00. > :19:04.just said, is it a change of mentality that is needed? Yes, we

:19:05. > :19:10.really need to change mentality. We really need to look more about

:19:11. > :19:15.things like a person's Resorts is and their abilities, rather than

:19:16. > :19:19.disabilities. -- re-sources. People have so many re-sources that can be

:19:20. > :19:23.put into force, no matter their disability. The society allows

:19:24. > :19:27.people to use their abilities instead of excluding them by not

:19:28. > :19:31.being accessible and not having the right attitude and the right

:19:32. > :19:36.understanding of what people with disabilities can achieve in society.

:19:37. > :19:40.You had our First Minister there in the film list a range of practical

:19:41. > :19:44.measures that the Scottish Government intends to introduce to

:19:45. > :19:50.help the disabled and their carers. The thing that is misguided? Should

:19:51. > :19:56.there be a bit less support? In terms of welfare. Is that what you

:19:57. > :20:02.are doing? Before we can build a totally inclusive society with

:20:03. > :20:06.mainstream services and politics, you need to keep the support system.

:20:07. > :20:12.Parallel to keeping a good support system, you also need to mainstream

:20:13. > :20:15.and make sure people with disabilities can have the same

:20:16. > :20:21.rights and the same opportunities to enter into workforces and take

:20:22. > :20:27.higher education, to have good health care, to have access to

:20:28. > :20:30.transport and to be a part of the society at large. Are there any

:20:31. > :20:33.countries you can see around the world well you think they are

:20:34. > :20:42.actually doing particularly well in administering then? -- in that

:20:43. > :20:46.mainstream then. Coming from Norway and Scandinavia, I think we have

:20:47. > :20:49.done really well. Politically, we are trying to build inclusive

:20:50. > :20:55.societies. Not only for people with disabilities, but for women, people

:20:56. > :21:05.with different sexuality is and all other sorts of excluded persons in

:21:06. > :21:07.society. You need to make politics a policy which includes people,

:21:08. > :21:12.instead of excluding and segregating them. How far do you think we need

:21:13. > :21:18.to go globally before we do have this inclusive society that you're

:21:19. > :21:22.talking about? I think we were on the right track. We have had a good

:21:23. > :21:27.journey. We had a UN Convention on the rights of Persons with

:21:28. > :21:33.disability, which was adapted into thousand and six. That's only ten

:21:34. > :21:37.years ago. -- 2006. I think, around the world, we are in a better

:21:38. > :21:42.situation than they were 20 or 30 years ago. We're making a change and

:21:43. > :21:47.that takes time, of course. We need to be patient but, at the same time,

:21:48. > :21:51.we also need to be a little bit aggressive when we seek about the

:21:52. > :21:57.need to change a mentality, they need to change politics and the view

:21:58. > :22:01.of disability. Jan Monsbakken in Edinburgh. Thank you.

:22:02. > :22:04.Well, let's go back to tonight's top story, with our news reviewers,

:22:05. > :22:06.Political Editor of Glasgow's Evening Times, Stewart Paterson,

:22:07. > :22:08.and the Press Association's Lynsey Bews.

:22:09. > :22:18.So, Boris Johnson said that a third runway will never be built. How much

:22:19. > :22:25.political turbulence do you think that Theresa May? I think there is

:22:26. > :22:30.quite a lot of the Bill and head for the Prime Minister but a lot of our

:22:31. > :22:36.MPs are against this. A lot of Cabinet against this. If it comes to

:22:37. > :22:40.a vote, she may find it difficult getting numbers to get this through

:22:41. > :22:46.Parliament. Do you think she could be involved here? I think this will

:22:47. > :22:50.be tremendously difficult for her. Many people have tried to sort this

:22:51. > :22:59.out and have failed. I think the suggestion has been that there could

:23:00. > :23:05.be this free vote were Conservative MPs, it is quite interesting. It

:23:06. > :23:09.could impact Cabinet registrations down the line. It could be quite

:23:10. > :23:12.embarrassing for the Tories. It leaves the reader may in a situation

:23:13. > :23:22.where he will be relying on the S NP, most likely, to get this bill

:23:23. > :23:27.through. -- SNP. Does that explain why the SNP came out in advance to

:23:28. > :23:30.say they support this? Well, they have backed the expansion because

:23:31. > :23:34.they think it's the best option for connecting Scottish airports to the

:23:35. > :23:37.rest of the world. Why they can't do that from Scottish airports and

:23:38. > :23:42.promote new routes from Scotland, I don't know. We used to have they

:23:43. > :23:45.would develop and fun, they could be doing with something like that but

:23:46. > :23:49.it is gone. There are several other airports that are not Heathrow that

:23:50. > :23:55.could be promoted to the rest of the world, in support of Scotland. It is

:23:56. > :24:00.no surprise that the SNP have backed Heathrow. They always have. They

:24:01. > :24:04.would have no issue backing that in a parliamentary vote, because that

:24:05. > :24:10.is their position. I just wonder how it came about that they came out in

:24:11. > :24:13.advance, to nip in the bud any speculation and say that they would

:24:14. > :24:18.push this through. It just a message to get on with it, to put it

:24:19. > :24:21.forward. The Scottish Government have not been shy in saying how

:24:22. > :24:26.economically beneficial they think this plan could be. For them, I

:24:27. > :24:33.think the dead difficulty -- the difficulty comes when you speak to

:24:34. > :24:35.Kevin Dean and he said they were questioned on the environmental

:24:36. > :24:38.credentials because of this decision, because of something that

:24:39. > :24:43.is happening down in the south of England and habitat as you reflect

:24:44. > :24:48.on the Scottish at Holyrood, which is trying to put itself is a very

:24:49. > :24:54.green Government? Will be a problem for the SNP? There is a

:24:55. > :24:57.contradiction there. The SNP claim to have the leading climate change

:24:58. > :25:02.targets at Holyrood but they are backing something that is going to

:25:03. > :25:06.produce another 250,000 planes flying over Heathrow every single

:25:07. > :25:10.year. I think it's too planes per second there. There was a problem

:25:11. > :25:17.that will obviously increase air pollution. We are happy to do that

:25:18. > :25:20.for some reason. At a time of economic uncertainty, isn't the

:25:21. > :25:24.reason Claire why voters might shrug their shoulders and say, well, if it

:25:25. > :25:33.brings more money to Scotland, then so be it -- clear. It is seen as

:25:34. > :25:38.being a trade-off, really, isn't it goes when Brexit has brought it into

:25:39. > :25:41.effect. We need this economic boost. There have been some interesting

:25:42. > :25:45.discussions around with a Brexit really has been the kind of catalyst

:25:46. > :25:51.for this. Is it just being used as an excuse to bring this proposal

:25:52. > :25:55.forward? That is certainly be Government's position, the Scottish

:25:56. > :25:58.Government's position, that it needed as an economic stimulus to

:25:59. > :26:04.bring much needed economic boost to Scotland. We have already seen Zac

:26:05. > :26:09.Goldsmith resigned. Will we see some Cabinet resignations of this? He has

:26:10. > :26:14.possibly set a precedent. Maybe others then comes closer to a vote.

:26:15. > :26:18.Maybe not resigning at this stage but, further down the line, if they

:26:19. > :26:22.will vote against the Government and that is whether it is a free vote or

:26:23. > :26:27.not. Particularly ministers. If they don't support the Government line,

:26:28. > :26:33.they have to go. Do you think Boris Johnson maenad have received

:26:34. > :26:36.through? -- might have to see it through? Well, there is a long way

:26:37. > :26:40.to go but it puts them in a different position from backbenchers

:26:41. > :26:46.when a vote against Governor and policy. Let's move onto other news.

:26:47. > :26:55.The Scottish Government is to rant a pardon against homosexual men who

:26:56. > :27:00.have been convicted of crimes that have been abolished. What do you

:27:01. > :27:05.think of this? You don't need Alan Turing's brilliant mind to see how

:27:06. > :27:10.this is happening and why it is happening now. It is keeping misery

:27:11. > :27:19.on the Tories after they kicked out John Nicolson, -- John Nicolson's

:27:20. > :27:22.bill. It should have been done before. I was going to say that,

:27:23. > :27:27.should it have been done a long time ago? It could have been. It's funny,

:27:28. > :27:31.we were talking about this earlier. I can commemorate time in this issue

:27:32. > :27:35.has come up in a question at Holyrood or in a public petition at

:27:36. > :27:38.Holyrood. I'm sure someone will correct me if I'm wrong about that,

:27:39. > :27:44.but I just remember this issue really been on the agenda before.

:27:45. > :27:46.Perhaps it is because there is possibly a small number of people

:27:47. > :27:49.who will be affected by this in Scotland, because we were talking

:27:50. > :27:53.about this again, the award being slightly different up here. It's

:27:54. > :27:59.slightly less. The people having convictions of this. -- law. These

:28:00. > :28:04.outdated offences. It is symbolic and that's why it has been so

:28:05. > :28:09.broadly covered here. The equality fight here is different. Patrick

:28:10. > :28:14.Harvie said he would like the Government to go even further and

:28:15. > :28:16.issue a public apology. Do you think a pardon would like they are being

:28:17. > :28:21.forgiven for something they did wrong? If he is asking the Scottish

:28:22. > :28:26.Government to issue an apology, then he's as King the Scottish Government

:28:27. > :28:32.to apologise for something the Westminster Government did. -- if he

:28:33. > :28:37.is asking. The Scottish Government never said no. They should not be

:28:38. > :28:41.apologising for law that was repealed 20 years before we had a

:28:42. > :28:46.Scottish Parliament. Perhaps the UK Government has something to

:28:47. > :28:49.apologise for, in that respect. Do you think that when governments

:28:50. > :28:54.apologise for something that a previous Government did in history,

:28:55. > :28:57.they are regarded as particularly meaningful? It depends on the issue.

:28:58. > :29:00.On something people feel really strongly about, even when it is an

:29:01. > :29:07.administration or a Government which hasn't actually done the wrong

:29:08. > :29:12.doing. -- the wrong doing, when it is done, it is appreciated. That's

:29:13. > :29:13.if it is a genuine apology. A pleasure talking to you both as

:29:14. > :29:15.ever. Thank you for coming in. Graham's here with you

:29:16. > :29:18.tomorrow night, usual time. So do please do join

:29:19. > :29:29.him then, bye-bye.