05/12/2016

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:00:00. > :00:00.With more allegations of child sex abuse in football,

:00:00. > :00:25.the SFA's boss speaks out for the first time.

:00:26. > :00:30.The Scottish Football Association has apologised for failing to deal

:00:31. > :00:33.with an allegation of sexual abuse against a former youth coach

:00:34. > :00:38.And Strathclyde University students decline official status

:00:39. > :00:41.But should the majority be allowed to stifle

:00:42. > :00:54.He coached hundreds of youth team footballers and was an SFA

:00:55. > :01:00.But 12 years after his death Hugh Stevenson has been accused

:01:01. > :01:03.of a series of child sex offences in Scotland.

:01:04. > :01:11.Pete Haynes has waived his anonymity to tell the BBC that he was sexually

:01:12. > :01:13.abused for years by Hugh Stevenson from the late 70s.

:01:14. > :01:16.His claim comes as police forces across the UK say that

:01:17. > :01:18.hundreds of alleged victims from within football

:01:19. > :01:31.And separately in a statement tonight, a spokesman

:01:32. > :01:44.May 19 79. It was football fanatic Pete Haynes first game. But this

:01:45. > :01:49.would rob him of his childhood. But aged 50, he has waived his anonymity

:01:50. > :01:54.and spoke publicly about the abuse he says he suffered at the hands of

:01:55. > :02:00.a football coach and top-flight referee, his name is Hugh Stevenson,

:02:01. > :02:06.pictured at Wembley two years earlier. He came up to the House, he

:02:07. > :02:15.was wearing his SFA blazer, very official. Very reassuring, I would

:02:16. > :02:19.imagine for my mum and dad. At them politely if he could take me to the

:02:20. > :02:28.match. I still have that programme. Because that day was the day my life

:02:29. > :02:37.changed. I was confused. I was 12, coming up for 13. It was the start

:02:38. > :02:47.of three, possibly for years of intense abuse. At the hands of Hugh

:02:48. > :02:54.Stevenson. He done things to me that I find difficult to talk about in

:02:55. > :02:59.great detail. But it was every depraved sexual act you can think

:03:00. > :03:06.of, up to and including rape. I was raped dozens of times. What kind of

:03:07. > :03:16.effect did this have on you, you were just a child? I was ashamed. I

:03:17. > :03:22.felt dirty. My schooling went down rapidly and I got into trouble with

:03:23. > :03:28.the police and I ran away from home. I would cut myself. You didn't feel

:03:29. > :03:34.able to tell anyone what was happening to you? I tried to hide

:03:35. > :03:46.it. Every time I saw him coming had another child in his car. What does

:03:47. > :03:52.that lead you to fear? That he could do what ever he wanted, to whoever

:03:53. > :04:01.he wanted. Whenever he wanted. There comes across... Stevenson was a SFA

:04:02. > :04:07.match official between 1964 and 1983. Let's have a picture of the

:04:08. > :04:13.linesman to write. This should be interesting. He also held coaching

:04:14. > :04:20.roles in the late 70s and 80s with the East Craigs boys club who often

:04:21. > :04:31.played on these pitches in Paisley. One of the many places Pete says he

:04:32. > :04:34.was preyed upon. Hugh Stevenson had contact with hundreds, if not

:04:35. > :04:42.thousands of boys over three decades. Pete Haynes says he doubts

:04:43. > :04:46.that he was his only victim. It would be ten, long years before Pete

:04:47. > :04:59.felt able to tell someone what had happened. I contacted the police in

:05:00. > :05:06.Paisley. I am sure that in a short space of time, Hugh Stevenson was

:05:07. > :05:12.arrested and charged. What happened to the charges against him? I have

:05:13. > :05:23.no idea. He was never taken to court? No. And you never had from

:05:24. > :05:31.the police? No. Police Scotland say Hugh Stevenson was subjected two

:05:32. > :05:43.police reports in the 1970s. They did tell me that Hugh Stevenson was

:05:44. > :05:54.known to them. But, he was no longer a SFA affiliate. They said they were

:05:55. > :06:02.very sorry what had happened to me and gave me some sort of apology,

:06:03. > :06:07.gave me a tour of the building. Your compensation was a tour of the

:06:08. > :06:12.building? Yes, that was the last I heard about it. His mother learned

:06:13. > :06:19.of her some's story around the same time as his visit to SFA. I always

:06:20. > :06:29.knew there was something, something terrible in that kid's eyes. It was

:06:30. > :06:37.horrible, truly horrible. Even now, sorry... It is still painful. I just

:06:38. > :06:45.cuddled him. That was really all we could do. Hugh Stevenson died in

:06:46. > :06:49.2004 and will never answer these allegations. Pete now hopes to put

:06:50. > :06:53.this behind him and achieve closure, but first he has a message for

:06:54. > :07:01.others who suffered like he says he did. I encourage them to come

:07:02. > :07:11.forward and give information. They can do that anomalously or, like

:07:12. > :07:16.myself, speak out about it. Anything like that would help this stop. At

:07:17. > :07:19.the end of the day, we got older now, we have children. They need to

:07:20. > :07:38.be protected as well. And separately in a statement

:07:39. > :07:39.tonight, a spokesman for the Scottish Youth

:07:40. > :07:41.Football Association said... "After we were informed

:07:42. > :07:43.of allegations relating to a period prior to the SYFA's formation

:07:44. > :07:46.in 1999, we have placed a member of staff on precautionary suspension

:07:47. > :07:48.while further investigations The BBC understands

:07:49. > :07:51.that the suspension was in relation to the handling of the Haynes'

:07:52. > :07:54.family's allegations in the 90s. Well earlier today Mark Daly spoke

:07:55. > :07:57.to the chief executive of the Scottish Football Association,

:07:58. > :08:04.Stewart Regan. I am sickened, as a father, as a

:08:05. > :08:10.director of the Scottish FA. It sickens me to the stomach to think

:08:11. > :08:16.that somebody has been abused and has tried to report it and has

:08:17. > :08:18.received no positive feedback, no help, no assistance in actually

:08:19. > :08:24.taking the matter forward. Clearly, at this stage we need to understand

:08:25. > :08:28.the information and we are grateful to the BBC and grateful to Pete

:08:29. > :08:34.Haynes for having the guts and the bravery to come forward and speak

:08:35. > :08:38.about something that must be pretty uncomfortable for him. That is the

:08:39. > :08:44.issue, he did come forward in the 90s, he told the police. He says it

:08:45. > :08:50.went nowhere. He told the SFA coming he says that went nowhere. He never

:08:51. > :08:56.heard from the SFA game. Do you have something to say something to Peter

:08:57. > :09:00.Haynes? Absolutely, we apologise deeply to Peter Haynes that this

:09:01. > :09:04.matter wasn't taken seriously. It was an issue that clearly him and

:09:05. > :09:11.his parents felt so strongly about that they tried to do everything

:09:12. > :09:17.they possibly could and the Scottish FA at the time didn't appear to

:09:18. > :09:21.listen and nothing came of it. That is an acceptable. It is something

:09:22. > :09:25.that certainly today we would not tolerate. We would operate with a

:09:26. > :09:31.zero tolerance towards any form of child abuse, we have put in place,

:09:32. > :09:35.procedures, policies and directives going forward. But they won't be of

:09:36. > :09:42.any comfort to historic victims and I do hope that those out there that

:09:43. > :09:46.are listening to these allegations this evening will actually pick the

:09:47. > :09:51.phone up and let us know if there is any information they feel we should

:09:52. > :09:55.be aware of and I will be absolutely clear, we will take action if we

:09:56. > :10:00.have any evidence whatsoever of child abuse or of any wrongdoing. We

:10:01. > :10:04.will take action and deal with it in the strongest possible way. Have you

:10:05. > :10:11.already had big numbers of complaints? No, we haven't. We have

:10:12. > :10:16.set up a partnership and information sharing protocol with NSPCC. We are

:10:17. > :10:20.ready to receive any information that listeners, viewers want to

:10:21. > :10:26.share and we will take its savour sleek. I can assure people of that.

:10:27. > :10:32.Can parents have confidence in their children playing football in

:10:33. > :10:36.Scotland, are safe? I believe we are doing everything we possibly can to

:10:37. > :10:40.give parents the comfort and the confidence that the club environment

:10:41. > :10:45.they go to, whether that be at a senior club level or a community

:10:46. > :10:50.club level, is making sure those responsible for the coaching of

:10:51. > :10:52.children, those responsible for the well-being of children are looked

:10:53. > :10:59.after and are safe in that environment. What is the SFA going

:11:00. > :11:03.to do for people like Pete Haynes? What are you going to do about those

:11:04. > :11:09.who have suffered abuse like Pete Haynes has? First of all, this

:11:10. > :11:15.matter has only been brought to my attention in the last 24 hours. It

:11:16. > :11:19.is important that we are allowed a little bit of time to reflect on the

:11:20. > :11:24.information brought forward. And put in place our own plan to investigate

:11:25. > :11:29.and review the facts that are on the table. Once we have established the

:11:30. > :11:34.facts we can put a plan in place in terms of dealing with those facts.

:11:35. > :11:39.Is there going to be an enquiry into this? Certainly, we will be looking

:11:40. > :11:43.to fully investigate the fact you have brought to our attention. I

:11:44. > :11:48.give you my word we will take this seriously. The Scottish FA is

:11:49. > :11:51.responsible for leading the game in Scotland and we need to make sure we

:11:52. > :11:56.take on board everything that you have said and put a plan in place to

:11:57. > :12:00.deal with it. As far as people like Pete Haynes is concerned, I would

:12:01. > :12:05.urge all those viewers watching with any information, any knowledge, no

:12:06. > :12:11.matter how small or trivial they might think it is, to pick the phone

:12:12. > :12:16.up and speak to our hotline. Give us the information, let us deal with it

:12:17. > :12:20.with NSPCC and the police and we will take those matter seriously and

:12:21. > :12:24.make sure that any historical victims of child abuse are dealt

:12:25. > :12:30.with swiftly. Will you personally speak to Pete Haynes and apologise

:12:31. > :12:34.for your organisation's failings in the past? Yes I will. Thank you very

:12:35. > :12:52.much. Thank you. Every month seems to bring new

:12:53. > :12:57.sensor censorship at our universities. It is called no plaque

:12:58. > :13:05.forming where people said to have extreme views are not allowed to

:13:06. > :13:07.speak at public events. Now that issue has flared up

:13:08. > :13:16.at Strathclyde University. Students here are used to debating

:13:17. > :13:20.controversial issues but concern has been raised the official students

:13:21. > :13:25.Association is denying the right to free speech to some of those voices.

:13:26. > :13:31.In this case we're talking about one of the most controversial issues of

:13:32. > :13:37.all, abortion. Jamie McCowan is part of a group which speaks out against

:13:38. > :13:40.abortion. It was refused a request by the university student

:13:41. > :13:45.Association to become officially affiliated because of its point of

:13:46. > :13:53.view. Jamie says it is an attack on freedom of expression. Any

:13:54. > :13:56.unreasonable idea introduced into society, we can challenge it. That

:13:57. > :14:03.is what is happening here. It is not just the case for this university,

:14:04. > :14:09.it is a pro-life case in general. Very common theme unfortunately of

:14:10. > :14:15.censorship. The union itself has also contradicted its own

:14:16. > :14:24.constitution because it allows giving University status of any

:14:25. > :14:25.race, or any belief. This is a philosophical belief. That has been

:14:26. > :14:37.denied. But it is seems like these,

:14:38. > :14:41.anti-abortion protests in the US, that have concerned the University.

:14:42. > :14:45.It says that giving a platform to groups such as these would

:14:46. > :14:49.contravene university policy. The student President Jacob Zuma says

:14:50. > :14:52.students also have the right to change their position in the

:14:53. > :14:59.referendum. Any group of students who want to start a society will

:15:00. > :15:04.generally just be a group saying let's start a society, so that would

:15:05. > :15:14.not stop me from going and meeting with groups of students. In the same

:15:15. > :15:17.way that it would be far like a student for myself to change a

:15:18. > :15:24.policy in the union. I would grab some of my mates to trigger a

:15:25. > :15:27.referendum or put in a policy through our different democratic

:15:28. > :15:34.procedures. It is a democratic institution, and it has to be sued.

:15:35. > :15:39.-- and it has to be so. The platform of no-platforming has arisen in

:15:40. > :15:40.recent times. The debate will continue.

:15:41. > :15:42.Well, to look at the wider issues of free speech,

:15:43. > :15:44.I'm joined from Dundee by sociologist Dr

:15:45. > :15:53.Well, do you think there is a serious threat to freedom of speech

:15:54. > :16:01.on university campuses? Yes, I do, yeah. I think it has been a problem

:16:02. > :16:04.for quite a long time in terms of the no-platforming issue, but I

:16:05. > :16:10.think if you meet just about any student Association member now, they

:16:11. > :16:17.are very often the most chronically offended, then skinned type

:16:18. > :16:27.individuals, who have a kind of aggressive form of victimhood and

:16:28. > :16:32.they generally speaking are extremely keen on having more

:16:33. > :16:41.regulations and more controls. Essentially, they seem to look at

:16:42. > :16:44.the student body as being profoundly vulnerable and think about the

:16:45. > :16:49.university as a place that should be safe, as it has been discussed in

:16:50. > :16:52.America. It has been like your home, where you are protected. So rather

:16:53. > :16:56.than universities being seen as places where you are challenged and

:16:57. > :17:02.you have your ideas and your comfort zone shaken up, and you have

:17:03. > :17:05.lecturers who will express very different and at times very

:17:06. > :17:09.controversial opinions, you are starting to get the move from

:17:10. > :17:14.American particularly universities coming into Britain and this

:17:15. > :17:20.argument for safe spaces, for trigger warnings, and for the need

:17:21. > :17:26.to protect students from words, ideas, organisations like you just

:17:27. > :17:29.heard there. So I think it is a genuine problem. But student

:17:30. > :17:33.associations are democratic bodies. Isn't it inevitable that they will

:17:34. > :17:38.reflect the views of the growing body of students? No, they are

:17:39. > :17:43.actually not really. People do not pay to be a member of a student

:17:44. > :17:46.Association. They are just formed. Hardly anybody is involved in

:17:47. > :17:52.student Association politics and usually these things get passed by

:17:53. > :17:57.sort of 50 or 200 people out of universities that are made up of

:17:58. > :18:02.18,000, is now I do not think they are very representative at all. It

:18:03. > :18:07.is not a representation of what students think at all. In the case

:18:08. > :18:10.of Strathclyde, the student's Association is not saying that you

:18:11. > :18:15.can't campaign on these issues. It is just saying that it is banning

:18:16. > :18:21.pro-life students from setting up an official group, so it is not a ban

:18:22. > :18:28.on free speech as such. How was it not? If you stop an association from

:18:29. > :18:31.forming, surely you're limiting the capacity of that group to have the

:18:32. > :18:35.same benefits as every other group, every other group I imagine gets a

:18:36. > :18:40.bit of funding from the University and so on. You are trying to stop

:18:41. > :18:43.that group from forming like every other group. You are discriminating

:18:44. > :18:48.against a group because you do not like their ideas. That is basically

:18:49. > :18:51.what is happening. So should a student Association give funding to

:18:52. > :18:55.a far right group that advocates racist policies or a religious group

:18:56. > :19:01.that some would see as being homophobic, perhaps? They should.

:19:02. > :19:06.And this is the problem because you asked that question because you feel

:19:07. > :19:09.I should be on the defensive about that because unfortunately left wing

:19:10. > :19:15.people and people who call themselves liberals for 20 or 30

:19:16. > :19:17.years have argued for no-platforming against far right organisations.

:19:18. > :19:20.Actually, if free speech means anything it should mean free speech

:19:21. > :19:26.for every organisation, so that you can challenge them. You can't hide

:19:27. > :19:32.from difficult ideas. You can't try to oppress them and use

:19:33. > :19:35.authoritarian type measures to quash bad ideas. Bad ideas will exist and

:19:36. > :19:39.the way you get rid of bad ideas, if you think they are bad, is that you

:19:40. > :19:42.challenge them. You challenge those ideas and you get students to

:19:43. > :19:47.challenge them and are due and actually I think this is a real

:19:48. > :19:53.problem. We have lost the art and the expectation even to have hard

:19:54. > :19:58.arguments. How do you think that has come about? How will we got to the

:19:59. > :20:02.stage in society? Well, we got to this stage partly because people who

:20:03. > :20:05.should have known better, which is people who are liberal and radical

:20:06. > :20:09.people who have historically defended free speech because they

:20:10. > :20:14.recognise they need to fight for rights and against inequality have

:20:15. > :20:21.become increasingly nervous over the last 20 or 30 or even 40 years, to a

:20:22. > :20:27.certain extent. And lost trust in both their argument and the public.

:20:28. > :20:32.It is a bit like... You do not want to get onto Brexit, but the Brexit

:20:33. > :20:34.thing is fascinating where the Brexit vote comes in and suddenly

:20:35. > :20:40.everyone who votes Brexit is called a racist. People who vote for Trump

:20:41. > :20:44.are all called a racist. It seems to be as soon as people do something

:20:45. > :20:51.that people don't like, they get called names. And there is quite a

:20:52. > :20:55.censorious climate that challenges anyone that raises an issue, whether

:20:56. > :21:00.it is about immigration or something else. They clamp down and call them

:21:01. > :21:04.a bigot and a racist. It is a very restrictive culture that we live in

:21:05. > :21:04.at the minute. OK. Thank you very much for that.

:21:05. > :21:08.Here now to talk about that and some of the day's other stories

:21:09. > :21:10.are the former Labour MP Tom Harris and discrimination

:21:11. > :21:20.Well, Tom, you better kick off with this. Do you agree with what we were

:21:21. > :21:25.discussing their, that people who were pro-Brexit have been labelled

:21:26. > :21:30.racist? I agreed with almost every thing he said. It is true that, as

:21:31. > :21:34.far as Brexit is concerned, I wonder if the opponents of Brexit have

:21:35. > :21:38.considered for even a minute that may be 52% of people voted for

:21:39. > :21:44.Brexit because they actually want Britain to leave the EU, not because

:21:45. > :21:46.they don't like foreigners and not because they feel disenfranchised or

:21:47. > :21:50.disillusioned, but actually because they took to the question on the

:21:51. > :21:55.ballot paper and they agreed with the proposition to leave the EU. And

:21:56. > :21:58.it is very frustrating. There are certain things you cannot express

:21:59. > :22:05.without the ultimate accusation being made in the 21st-century

:22:06. > :22:11.Britain or Scotland on the ultimate accusation, the ultimate insult is

:22:12. > :22:15.you are racist. And it is used so frequently now that it is starting

:22:16. > :22:19.to become devalued. And the same with the word fascist. People will

:22:20. > :22:23.call Donald Trump fascists. Do think in some ways it devalues the English

:22:24. > :22:28.line which? I think it does and particularly around Donald Trump and

:22:29. > :22:32.around some of the more further right parties that are being elected

:22:33. > :22:35.in Europe. The bulk of fascist amnesties and I think the people who

:22:36. > :22:39.lived through the war, they would probably see that it is not nearly

:22:40. > :22:43.as bad as it was and it is actually undermining how bad it was before

:22:44. > :22:47.and it almost is like we are three generations now and everyone has how

:22:48. > :22:50.bad it actually was, but if history teaches us anything it is we should

:22:51. > :22:55.learn from what has gone before rather than making comparisons when

:22:56. > :22:58.comparisons don't actually exist. All you surprised about the

:22:59. > :23:03.situation in universities, which is to be bastions of free speech? It is

:23:04. > :23:10.incredibly depressing. I can find no upside in any of this. This culture

:23:11. > :23:13.of safe spaces. A spokesman for the students at Strathclyde University

:23:14. > :23:17.said that allowing this pro-life group to become an official part of

:23:18. > :23:25.the student association would be to Coppermine is the rights of Persons

:23:26. > :23:28.with uteruses. Now, in my day, we called them women. At the University

:23:29. > :23:32.couldn't even bring itself to describe woman as women in this case

:23:33. > :23:37.and it said it would compromise the safe space policy. If you are a

:23:38. > :23:41.young person and you are considering whether to go to university, if you

:23:42. > :23:45.need a safe space, stay in your bedroom, closed the curtains, and

:23:46. > :23:49.don't switch on the television. If you want to be challenged and you

:23:50. > :23:54.want to have rigorous debate, by all means go to university. What

:23:55. > :23:57.Strathclyde University has said about safe spaces, isn't that is

:23:58. > :24:03.protecting students from potential intimidation? I think there is part

:24:04. > :24:06.of that and I think the reason they denied the pro-life group officially

:24:07. > :24:14.shown to the student union was because of their policy that they

:24:15. > :24:18.support equal and bars right to choose and it is a democratic body

:24:19. > :24:22.that has passed policy that isn't support of women's right to choose,

:24:23. > :24:25.and I think they were right to make that decision and if the pro-life

:24:26. > :24:28.wants to affiliate themselves or get their views heard within the student

:24:29. > :24:37.body then they should stand for election and win votes. We heard

:24:38. > :24:39.more and -- claims of sexual abuse in football. For years after Jimmy

:24:40. > :24:44.Savile and still more allegations are coming out. What can be done

:24:45. > :24:48.now? I fear that even more will come out in this area. And something that

:24:49. > :24:53.really does concern me and I say this as a parent is there are so

:24:54. > :24:57.many people out there, good people, who are volunteering and training

:24:58. > :25:00.kids in football and other activities, you are doing it for the

:25:01. > :25:05.right reasons and now because of these revelations and other historic

:25:06. > :25:08.revelations and accusations, parents have another reason to feel

:25:09. > :25:13.suspicious about the good motives of good people doing a good job and I

:25:14. > :25:17.think that is a tragedy. It is great bravery for people to come forward.

:25:18. > :25:21.I think it is something about the macho culture of football that baby

:25:22. > :25:25.has prevented people from speaking. I think there is part of that and

:25:26. > :25:28.also because people generally haven't been believed. We have seen

:25:29. > :25:31.an array of scandals around sexual abuse over the last couple of years

:25:32. > :25:34.and it has come out that people just have not been believed and I think

:25:35. > :25:37.the numbers, the amount of Biba that are coming forward now, there is

:25:38. > :25:41.some sort of solidarity for the men that and the other they may not be

:25:42. > :25:44.targeted to the extent that they once were. I think that is a huge

:25:45. > :25:46.issue in terms of the coming forward issue but also in terms of

:25:47. > :25:51.professional sport you people are very passionate about their own

:25:52. > :25:55.careers and the people love huge power over young people and that

:25:56. > :25:58.needs to be taken into account. The Supreme Court today ended the first

:25:59. > :26:01.day of its hearing on whether ministers and parliament have the

:26:02. > :26:06.final say on the timetable for Britain leaving the EU. This annoys

:26:07. > :26:12.a lot of pro-Brexit supporters. Does this annoys you? Not in the

:26:13. > :26:15.slightest. I am glad it will finally be decided in the Supreme Court

:26:16. > :26:18.because I think that is the court that needs to decide when it comes

:26:19. > :26:23.to the constitution, but all of these constituency believes that

:26:24. > :26:28.unelected judges, and we only have unelected judges in this country,

:26:29. > :26:34.thank goodness, are conspiring sit -- against the democratic will of

:26:35. > :26:38.the people. That is nonsense. Particularly English the legendary

:26:39. > :26:40.Lady Hale, she seems to have been called a feminist NATFHE by the

:26:41. > :26:44.Daily Mail for the last couple of weeks and there is a concern at the

:26:45. > :26:47.end of the day that a judicial oath have to mean something and when

:26:48. > :26:51.people are appointed to judicial office their job is to

:26:52. > :26:55.professionally look at things on a legal point of view setting aside

:26:56. > :26:58.feelings and policy and it is a cornerstone of civilised society and

:26:59. > :27:00.I think that attacking judges and looking into the background and

:27:01. > :27:03.where they have got holiday homes and all the rest of the kind of

:27:04. > :27:07.thing that has been happening is something that should not be

:27:08. > :27:11.encouraged at all. I'd is one, Tom, if the Government loses its appeal,

:27:12. > :27:15.as people widely expect it to, then it is the possibility that the court

:27:16. > :27:20.might suggest legislation or at least a vote in Parliament. That

:27:21. > :27:25.could scupper or at least change the shape of Brexit. Is that a worry? I

:27:26. > :27:28.voted me because I believe in British Parliament recently. I want

:27:29. > :27:33.or Parliament to have a say in how we leave the EU. So I have no

:27:34. > :27:40.problem at all with our MPs having a crucial role in this. I think MPs

:27:41. > :27:44.themselves would be ill-advised to try to delay this process or trick

:27:45. > :27:48.it up or even block it and I don't think that will happen on even the

:27:49. > :27:52.Government loses this appeal. I am not quite so sure as you are

:27:53. > :27:55.incidentally that they will lose it, but it doesn't really change very

:27:56. > :28:02.much if they do. And you think Government should have a say as well

:28:03. > :28:06.as ministers - the Parliament? That seems to be what it is about but I

:28:07. > :28:09.agree with Tom. I don't know what difference it will make because you

:28:10. > :28:12.would hope that the MPs would vote the way that their constituents

:28:13. > :28:17.voted which means that really what difference would it make? What about

:28:18. > :28:20.the Scottish dimension to this. If there is going to be a legislative

:28:21. > :28:25.consent motion in the Scottish Parliament, it that says it does not

:28:26. > :28:27.agree to Brexit, or that great a constitutional crisis, as Alexander

:28:28. > :28:32.has claimed? Interestingly, Alec said that a constitutional crisis

:28:33. > :28:36.would be good for Scotland. I think he meant it would be good for the

:28:37. > :28:41.SNP. Who knows what the Supreme Court will decide? I am not a

:28:42. > :28:45.lawyer. But my understanding is that the convention is a convention. It

:28:46. > :28:49.is nothing to do with what is written in legislation and I think

:28:50. > :28:51.the court will recognise that. Thank you very much for that.

:28:52. > :28:53.Now, the Supreme Court will also hear the case

:28:54. > :28:57.Join Laura McIver for tomorrow night's programme

:28:58. > :29:31.I went up to her at the end of the class -

:29:32. > :29:34.she said, "Where did you copy this essay?"

:29:35. > :29:37.Because she couldn't believe that a little chubby black girl

:29:38. > :29:41.with her pebble lenses could write an essay like that.

:29:42. > :29:44.Pass The Baton - a day exploring the unique contribution