:00:00. > :00:00.Thank you very much. Now it's time to cross live to
:00:00. > :00:17.Glasgow and independence debate.
:00:18. > :00:21.Hello from Glasgow on a rather blustery day, the morning after the
:00:22. > :00:26.debate the night before and the newspapers and the commentators
:00:27. > :00:30.appear to be unanimous. Alex Salmond won the debate over Alistair
:00:31. > :00:34.Darling. It was, at times, a pretty tetchy affair, turning, as did the
:00:35. > :00:40.first debate, very often a one big question, that was the question of
:00:41. > :00:44.money. What currency could or would or should an independent Scotland
:00:45. > :00:53.use? Here is a clip. Fnchts we don't have a currency union, what's Plan
:00:54. > :00:56.B? I kept asking what Plan B is, I asked three weeks ago, he can't say
:00:57. > :01:00.or he doesn't think he won't like the answer. It's not a matter for
:01:01. > :01:19.Alex Salmond what the alternative is. I would like to know. As for a
:01:20. > :01:23.separate currency, we saw what happened.
:01:24. > :01:28.I want to know what Plan B is, so do you. Go and tell us.
:01:29. > :01:37.Well, you don't have to point, Alastair. I set out the options very
:01:38. > :01:45.clearly. Three Plan Bs for the price of one. Three Plan Bs. Come on. You
:01:46. > :01:53.expect one then three turn up in a row. Three Plan Bs tonight. Hang on,
:01:54. > :01:57.isn't it the case... . If people back the plan of the Scottish
:01:58. > :02:00.people, to keepstering in a sensible currency union, he you, as a
:02:01. > :02:04.democrat accept that as the will of the Scottish people? If you win this
:02:05. > :02:08.referendum, I'll accept it's a no`vote. If the we side wins the
:02:09. > :02:10.referendum do, you accept the sovereign will of the Scottish
:02:11. > :02:28.people and back that currency union? The currency is the best option for
:02:29. > :02:32.Scotland. The pound sterling only works if you
:02:33. > :02:39.have an economic and political union.
:02:40. > :02:42.There was a moment when Alistair Darling, former Chancellor of the
:02:43. > :02:47.Exchequer of the United Kingdom said that Scotland, of course, could use
:02:48. > :02:53.the pound, although, with plenty of caveats.
:02:54. > :02:57.You said a few moments ago, you had a row of Plan Bs like bus who is
:02:58. > :03:03.were all going to turn up at the same time. Not a collection of bus
:03:04. > :03:09.s, it's the money use, the interest rates pay, the amount of money for
:03:10. > :03:16.Public Services. Stop playing. You must have a Plan B, can't you say it
:03:17. > :03:23.If win the referendum, will you be a democrat and back that? Nobody can
:03:24. > :03:27.hear. , can we use the pound anyway Of course we can. We can use...
:03:28. > :03:33.APPLAUSE We can use anything. The is... We
:03:34. > :03:37.are still using somebody else's currency, if you Dow, you don't have
:03:38. > :03:46.a Central Bank so our financial services can't in Scotland.
:03:47. > :03:49.The second problem you have is that countries that use other people's
:03:50. > :03:54.currencies like Panama, Ecuador, Hong Kong, they have to run a
:03:55. > :04:02.surplus, they can't borrow. In other words you would have a huge deficit.
:04:03. > :04:06.That'd come out of high Scotlands... Money too affected one of the other
:04:07. > :04:10.big issues in the debate. One of the big issues in this sgier campaign up
:04:11. > :04:14.and down Scotland which is the future of the NHS.
:04:15. > :04:18.We have an ageing population in Scotland. We have a rising health
:04:19. > :04:23.need and I don't want to put that at risk. When I look at independent
:04:24. > :04:26.experts, not anything I'm saying, we look at Scotland's budgetary
:04:27. > :04:30.position in the years after independence and they have
:04:31. > :04:33.identified a ?6 billion black hole over and above anything that
:04:34. > :04:37.austerity might bring, I don't want to put the Health Service at risk. I
:04:38. > :04:41.am against going down a route which I think will end up with us finding
:04:42. > :04:45.that Public Services are more squeezed, more pressured and cut in
:04:46. > :04:51.a way that I don't think any of us want to see. I'm not prepared to
:04:52. > :04:55.take the risk. The risk to National Health Service comes from the
:04:56. > :04:58.cutbacks we've already had from Westminster, already pertaining in
:04:59. > :05:04.Wales. The threat of ?25 billion more. The Labour Party in England
:05:05. > :05:07.are warning loud and clear of the risk of privatisation throughout the
:05:08. > :05:11.National Health Service, the risk of charge. The Labour this Wales say
:05:12. > :05:15.that they've been forced to cut health expenditure because of the
:05:16. > :05:20.budgetary pressure from Westminster. Are you the only person who doesn't
:05:21. > :05:26.realise what's going on in England and Wales and the threat to Scotland
:05:27. > :05:29.unless they establish financial control to protect our own Health
:05:30. > :05:37.Service? APPLAUSE
:05:38. > :05:40.In a sense tense, I recognise budgetary constraints everywhere.
:05:41. > :05:50.I'm saying that you are exposing us to... Your own people are saying in
:05:51. > :05:56.England. That's... Scaremongering. In terms of who won the televised
:05:57. > :06:01.debate, the pundits and newspapers were unanimous. The Forwardian
:06:02. > :06:07.conducted a snap poll of about 500 people who were asked who did win
:06:08. > :06:12.and they put Salmond at 71%, Darling at 29%. So a clear winner, at least
:06:13. > :06:18.according to that one poll. For some more details about the polling, I'm
:06:19. > :06:22.joined by the research director of IpsosMORI in Glasgow. What do you
:06:23. > :06:26.make of the snap poll? Very interesting. Entirely the reverse of
:06:27. > :06:30.what we saw in the first debate, so the first minister coming out on
:06:31. > :06:36.top, whereas Mr Darling perceived to have clearly won the first debate.
:06:37. > :06:40.It's a bit more interesting than the ebb and flow debates, the effect it
:06:41. > :06:44.will have on public opinion. The most interesting element of the poll
:06:45. > :06:50.last night was that the gap between the yes and no is exactly the same
:06:51. > :06:54.before the debate and it was after. After the debate, it doesn't appear
:06:55. > :06:57.to have had a huge impact on the balance of opinion in terms of
:06:58. > :07:01.voting tension. We have to wait and see how this sinks in, Mark, but I
:07:02. > :07:08.did think when watching it, at the end of this, are the yes voters
:07:09. > :07:13.still yes and the no still no and the undecided still wondering what
:07:14. > :07:17.to do? That is the risk. As with the first debate, I don't think many yes
:07:18. > :07:22.voters will be voting no or many will be voting yes as a result of
:07:23. > :07:26.the debates themselves. They do help the campaigns, they do help the feel
:07:27. > :07:34.and the tone of the campaigns but I'm not sure they'll have a huge
:07:35. > :07:42.impact. As for the undecided voter, I think what a lot will say is that
:07:43. > :07:49.it was tetchy, shouty. It possibly wasn't that healthy.
:07:50. > :07:53.Certainly people up and down the country are undecided. Is there
:07:54. > :07:57.anything? We have got three weeks to go before people go to the polls,
:07:58. > :08:02.although the postal votes go out this week. Is there any one issue
:08:03. > :08:06.that's likely to move this or is it still going to be mostly about the
:08:07. > :08:09.currency and economy? The story of the polls, although, depending on
:08:10. > :08:14.the historical look that you take of it, say over the last six months,
:08:15. > :08:19.they've been relatively static, maybe going up a bit. But possibly
:08:20. > :08:25.not enough on the current trend to win in September. The key thing that
:08:26. > :08:30.people tell us, how are you going to decide which way to vote? Crucially,
:08:31. > :08:33.how well off do you think you will feel if you vote no or if we vote
:08:34. > :08:38.yes. Not sure the debate nailed that on
:08:39. > :08:41.either side. That's what I mean about the undecided voter. Possibly
:08:42. > :08:47.not really the key issues being explained in terms of debates. A
:08:48. > :08:52.final thought on that. Who are these people, the undeciders? Is it not
:08:53. > :08:57.people who're disengaged in the process? Because they haven't met
:08:58. > :09:02.anybody like that? Eight in ten, in fact more than that tell us they are
:09:03. > :09:06.certain to vote. It may not end up being that much but these are high
:09:07. > :09:11.levels of turnout in the context of political elections and so on in the
:09:12. > :09:17.UK. So turnout will be high. I don't knows, about one in ten clinically
:09:18. > :09:18.don't know. There is about a further 10% leaning one way or the other but
:09:19. > :09:26.still open to persuasion. That is a lot of people. They are not a
:09:27. > :09:29.homogeneous group. More women than men are undecided, young people are
:09:30. > :09:32.undecided but they are not a single group which makes it hard for either
:09:33. > :09:44.campaign to do one single thing that will win them over. Of course, it is
:09:45. > :09:49.not just people in Scotland to are affected by this, but the young
:09:50. > :09:52.United Kingdom has an interest because it could mean the end of the
:09:53. > :10:06.United Kingdom as we know it. Let's go over to Belfast now. Yes, a
:10:07. > :10:11.heated discussion last night. People are watching this debate closely.
:10:12. > :10:14.The degree unionists, they are concerned that if Scotland was to
:10:15. > :10:19.become independent, it could erode the union in some way. It could
:10:20. > :10:22.break links that they see as important. The Nationalists are
:10:23. > :10:27.watching closely because they believe if there was a yes vote for
:10:28. > :10:32.independence, it could maybe help their appeal for a border poll to
:10:33. > :10:35.see whether or not Northern Ireland should join up with the Republic of
:10:36. > :10:39.Ireland. As a result, they are watching this very closely. All
:10:40. > :10:44.additions are trying to stay out of it in some cases. I recently spoke
:10:45. > :10:48.to the jeopardy First Minister, Martin McGuinness, he said this is a
:10:49. > :11:00.matter for Scotland. `` NPT. But there are knock`on implications.
:11:01. > :11:03.Currently Northern Ireland gets more than anywhere else in the UK through
:11:04. > :11:12.the Barnett formula. There is a concern that if that was to change,
:11:13. > :11:16.they might get slightly less. Currently Northern Ireland gets more
:11:17. > :11:20.money per head for public spending than anywhere else in the UK and the
:11:21. > :11:24.other big issue for people here is corporation tax. At the moment,
:11:25. > :11:27.Northern Ireland already competes against the Republic of Ireland, in
:11:28. > :11:33.much lower rate, and that makes it difficult to compete. At this
:11:34. > :11:37.building behind me, they try to attract companies in, bring in
:11:38. > :11:40.investment, if Scotland was to lower corporation tax if they got
:11:41. > :11:44.independence, that could mean Northern Ireland being stuck in
:11:45. > :11:50.between Scotland and the Republic of Ireland. They would find it
:11:51. > :11:57.difficult to compete. The politicians are watching this debate
:11:58. > :12:01.extremely closely. We will have further updates throughout the day
:12:02. > :12:10.every hour and also tonight at 7:30pm we will have a special new
:12:11. > :12:14.programme presented by Sarah Smith. Thank you very much.
:12:15. > :12:17.In a moment, a summary of the business news this hour but
:12:18. > :12:25.Supporters of Scottish independence are claiming that the First Minister
:12:26. > :12:26.Alex Salmond won