:00:24. > :00:30.You join us in Glasgow at the start of the 16 week campaign period, just
:00:31. > :00:36.as this independence referendum debate starts to heat up. Most 16
:00:37. > :00:41.and 17`year`olds across the UK are deciding what to wear in the
:00:42. > :00:47.morning. In Scotland they have an important question to answer on
:00:48. > :00:52.September the 18th. Before then they have lots of questions of their own
:00:53. > :00:58.about Scotland's future and we have created a photo booth for them to do
:00:59. > :01:04.that. Would it be able to afford all the things it has been promising?
:01:05. > :01:10.Why words David Cameron debate the question with Alex Salmond? What
:01:11. > :01:15.would an independent Scotland's relationship be like with the rest
:01:16. > :01:21.of Europe? Will Scotland have a strong enough military force? Who is
:01:22. > :01:27.pulling the strings in the better together campaign? You join us in
:01:28. > :01:30.Glasgow at the start of the 16 week formal campaigning. It is a campaign
:01:31. > :01:38.that seems to have been going on for years in Scotland. With us we have
:01:39. > :01:41.50 young people the BBC has been following for the last year and will
:01:42. > :01:49.continue to follow them until September. First of all, which is
:01:50. > :01:53.the yeast team. I am voting yes because it will be better off for
:01:54. > :01:59.our country as a whole, economically, socially as well. As a
:02:00. > :02:04.culture as well we will thrive better as an independent country.
:02:05. > :02:10.Are you not worried about some of the scaremongering we have heard,
:02:11. > :02:16.that Scotland cannot afford to go it alone? Of course they do worry me.
:02:17. > :02:21.Can we afford it? I feel personally we would thrive as a country
:02:22. > :02:25.personality and we are drained by the rest of the UK. As an
:02:26. > :02:33.independent country we could prosper ourselves. Natalie, you are one of
:02:34. > :02:40.the no voters. Better together would say they are just telling people the
:02:41. > :02:47.facts. Is that what you believe? I am not sure. I think either side is
:02:48. > :02:52.going to be biased. If you do not want to make a decision, you need to
:02:53. > :03:04.look at the facts and look at the statistics. If a better together
:03:05. > :03:09.statistic is coming from a really popular part of England where they
:03:10. > :03:14.want Scotland to stay as part of the United Kingdom, that will be biased.
:03:15. > :03:23.On the other hand, if the yes campaign do a poll and in Scotland
:03:24. > :03:27.people feel they get ignored by Westminster, you get a very
:03:28. > :03:34.different statistic. Look at the facts, but also look at where the
:03:35. > :03:41.facts come from. If we go to an undecided, you are finding it hard
:03:42. > :03:46.to make up your mind? The better together campaign is so negative and
:03:47. > :03:52.they go on about how our economy can't work, one of the members is
:03:53. > :03:58.quoted as saying, if we are so bad, why do they still want us? The yes
:03:59. > :04:02.campaign is far too positive and better together is far too negative
:04:03. > :04:10.and there has to be a better middle ground. Has anybody got a real fact
:04:11. > :04:15.they can tell us within the campaign. When it comes to the
:04:16. > :04:19.economy we have had a whole week of campaigning. One side says it would
:04:20. > :04:24.be better off staying in the UK and the other side says we would be
:04:25. > :04:34.better going independent. Who do we believe? I would say currently I do
:04:35. > :04:43.not believe any of them. I am stuck, where do I go? I am leaning towards
:04:44. > :04:46.a yes vote and that is just because the yes campaign are promising lots
:04:47. > :04:53.of good things. It is all very promising, but there is also the
:04:54. > :05:00.question of affordability. Can we afford all this, that they are
:05:01. > :05:06.promising? The no campaign is like, you need us, but in actual fact they
:05:07. > :05:11.need us. Down there they need Scotland for many things. That is
:05:12. > :05:15.why I am leaning towards a yes vote. We can be a good country
:05:16. > :05:25.independently if we have the money and resources. Let me clarify, you
:05:26. > :05:32.were going to vote no. What is it that has persuaded you? Is it
:05:33. > :05:38.Eloise? She has been persuading me and she has been pushing and
:05:39. > :05:48.pushing. She has persuaded me to a yes. Is that the difference between
:05:49. > :05:51.the campaigns? Yes, I think so. Both of them present completely different
:05:52. > :05:55.statistics, so you have to think for yourself which one you are going to
:05:56. > :06:01.believe or if you are going to take the middle ground. That is what I am
:06:02. > :06:06.doing. I am not taking either side particularly, but I am listening.
:06:07. > :06:13.The people around you influence how you are going to vote. She has been
:06:14. > :06:16.affected by Eloise. But I am quite an individual person so I like to
:06:17. > :06:22.make up my mind on what I have seen. I do not think I have seen enough to
:06:23. > :06:28.make me sway either way. If you had to vote tomorrow, what would you
:06:29. > :06:34.vote? I would vote no. Both campaigns have done their fair share
:06:35. > :06:38.of campaigning. The yes campaign is giving a positive picture of the
:06:39. > :06:43.things they hope to achieve, but at the same time they have been
:06:44. > :06:47.described as a talking shop. I am not fully convinced the power is
:06:48. > :06:51.with them. Even if we are given independence, they have the
:06:52. > :06:56.challenge of promising and delivering on all of those things.
:06:57. > :07:01.Taking on the debt they would gain from leaving and I am not convinced
:07:02. > :07:06.with oil being a finite resource as well. There is still tonnes of it
:07:07. > :07:11.out there, but there will be a point when we ran out and Scotland has to
:07:12. > :07:16.come up with another main export and I am not fully convinced they can do
:07:17. > :07:21.it. That is an economic argument, that is something many people in
:07:22. > :07:28.Scotland are trying to grapple with. You are a yes supporter, but do you
:07:29. > :07:34.believe Scotland can go it alone? Oil is a finite resource, but in the
:07:35. > :07:38.past 50 years Westminster has squandered that resource. If you
:07:39. > :07:42.look at Norway, they set up an oil find and they are debt free compared
:07:43. > :07:50.to us and we have billions of pounds worth of debt. They have come out
:07:51. > :07:54.and said from day one we can set up an oil fund and that will be a
:07:55. > :07:59.back`up for generations to come. I know it is going to run out,
:08:00. > :08:06.everyone knows that, but we have got renewable energy. You look at the
:08:07. > :08:11.Moray Firth, the tidal powered for half of Scotland. It is not a case
:08:12. > :08:16.of whether we will survive or not. David Cameron has said there is no
:08:17. > :08:23.doubt we could survive on our own, and I believe that will be the case.
:08:24. > :08:29.You compare it to Norway. I know nothing about Norway. It is all very
:08:30. > :08:35.well saying they are debt free, but what is their poverty rate? Do they
:08:36. > :08:43.have things like council housing? The benefit system? I am not saying
:08:44. > :08:48.they do not, because I do not know. A lot of countries do not and four
:08:49. > :08:53.poor people in Britain, yes, there is a high poverty rate, but there
:08:54. > :09:00.are so many things out there to help people. Just because somebody told
:09:01. > :09:04.us does not mean it is because the Government would help them.
:09:05. > :09:08.Sometimes they will not accept the help. I heard somebody talking about
:09:09. > :09:15.it on the radio saying, yes, I offered a homeless person a night in
:09:16. > :09:22.my house as long as the next day they went to the housing office.
:09:23. > :09:30.They went to the next day and she refused help. One of the things the
:09:31. > :09:34.SNP would like us to look at is welfare in Scandinavian countries
:09:35. > :09:37.and taxes are higher there, but the public services are said to be a lot
:09:38. > :09:44.higher and they have had that oil fund. Jack? She was talking about
:09:45. > :09:51.the negative side and the poverty in Britain, but should that not be
:09:52. > :09:57.something to push people towards yes? People are saying it is the
:09:58. > :10:02.best of both worlds being here, but that is a is flying around. If you
:10:03. > :10:07.look at areas of Glasgow and the West of Scotland, people are not
:10:08. > :10:09.living the best of both worlds. Westminster is not providing for
:10:10. > :10:18.people in Scotland the way they should be. An independent Scotland
:10:19. > :10:25.would care about its own population. You cannot say the poverty is just
:10:26. > :10:30.type in Scotland? There is poverty in England, but if we had the
:10:31. > :10:35.opportunity to make Scots in our own country better off, should we not
:10:36. > :10:41.take that opportunity? But can we afford to? That will be one of the
:10:42. > :10:46.questions many of the people who are undecided are grappling with. Much
:10:47. > :10:51.of the campaign is based upon dealing with some of the poorest in
:10:52. > :10:55.society and some of the problems Scotland may have. Do you think that
:10:56. > :11:03.is something that would swear you either way? Definitely. I think
:11:04. > :11:06.dealing with the Government in Westminster and the fact is
:11:07. > :11:12.Conservative governments are out to help rich people. Scotland did not
:11:13. > :11:15.vote for the Conservatives at all. The Government we have in power in
:11:16. > :11:21.Westminster is not one that Scotland voted for, so it is not helping
:11:22. > :11:26.Scotland. But, on the other hand, I do not know if an independent
:11:27. > :11:29.Scotland is the solution. That will bring problems no matter what
:11:30. > :11:35.because let's face it the economy globally is a mess at the moment. I
:11:36. > :11:39.do not think the Conservative Government in Westminster is doing a
:11:40. > :11:44.good job, but should we be setting up a new country at the time of a
:11:45. > :11:52.great global economic recession? I do not trust either party. You are
:11:53. > :11:57.in a quandary? No. You are not alone. I have spoken to a number of
:11:58. > :12:04.undecided voters who are the same. You would quite like the romance.
:12:05. > :12:13.Why is that? I am disappointed it was not an option on the ballot
:12:14. > :12:17.paper, Devo Max. We want Scotland to make decisions for itself, but we do
:12:18. > :12:23.not want to lose the benefits of being part of the UK. If that seems
:12:24. > :12:30.to be a well spoken about topic and an option for people, why has it not
:12:31. > :12:34.been considered? Although the yes campaign is not all about the SNP,
:12:35. > :12:42.the SNP either front running party and the majority Government
:12:43. > :12:45.currently. I feel like if they went round every person in Scotland and
:12:46. > :12:51.asked them would it be a concern to completely leave the UK or stay with
:12:52. > :12:53.Devo Max where they could still get powers from Westminster and
:12:54. > :13:01.Westminster would be like an overseer, but not a deciding factor
:13:02. > :13:07.in all the decisions, I feel not being given that option is already
:13:08. > :13:14.having our fate is decided for us. With all the competing visions we
:13:15. > :13:20.have seen from the two campaigns, is it difficult to decipher fact from
:13:21. > :13:24.what is campaigning, even if you are a yes or an avid no voter? Do you
:13:25. > :13:30.find it difficult to decipher what is real and what to trust?
:13:31. > :13:36.Absolutely. At the end of the day politics is always going to be the
:13:37. > :13:48.same, there will never be clear fact that I completely true. That's from
:13:49. > :14:05.either side are biased. We all understand that is something that
:14:06. > :14:14.will never change, but it is who you choose to believe and who you trust
:14:15. > :14:17.with your future. At this point in time I have to trust the yes
:14:18. > :14:19.campaign. I cannot see how Scotland, and I am just talking about Scott in
:14:20. > :14:22.Scotland, how we are going to be better off. It is selfish, but you
:14:23. > :14:24.have to think about yourself and your own country first. You both
:14:25. > :14:25.nodded, it is one thing you can all agree on, that it is difficult to
:14:26. > :14:27.decipher what is real. This week I heard in the same news bulletin that
:14:28. > :14:30.the better together campaign said the taxpayer in Scotland would be
:14:31. > :14:34.?1000 worse off. Immediately afterwards the yes campaign said the
:14:35. > :14:39.taxpayer would be ?1000 better off if Scotland became independent.
:14:40. > :14:49.Great, that has got me from nowhere to nowhere. I think especially with
:14:50. > :14:54.the thing about being ?1000 better or worse off, it would be nice to be
:14:55. > :15:00.?1000 better off in an independent country, but we cannot guarantee we
:15:01. > :15:06.are going to lose or gain money in the UK, so neither side can say
:15:07. > :15:10.definitely if we stay in the UK you will be the same or better off. No
:15:11. > :15:22.one has a crystal ball and no one can say for definite, yes or no.
:15:23. > :15:26.Aside from the economy, what is your question when it comes to
:15:27. > :15:37.independence? Coming from Dumfries and Galloway, we are concerned about
:15:38. > :15:44.the substation and the EU. The SNP said they would try to cover it. But
:15:45. > :15:50.free childcare, the NHS free scholarships and stuff like that, I
:15:51. > :15:54.cannot add that on with the amount Scotland needs in subsidies to
:15:55. > :15:58.survive. We have just had the EU elections and the EU is a hot
:15:59. > :16:08.topic, will we be allowed automatic entry? The SNP say yes, the Better
:16:09. > :16:12.Together say no. When it comes to the EU, would you like to remain in
:16:13. > :16:24.or out? Definitely in. Would that be a defiant `` deciding factor for
:16:25. > :16:30.you? Voting yes, there might be a question over EU membership. We did
:16:31. > :16:36.not vote UKIP, but in England there was a lot of UKIP MEPs. So now they
:16:37. > :16:42.could be voting yes for Europe. I want to be in Europe and that is it
:16:43. > :16:49.for me. What country am I voting for that will keep me in Europe?
:16:50. > :16:53.Scotland did vote for one UKIP MEP, but the vote division was about 10%
:16:54. > :16:59.for UKIP compared to quite a lot higher south of the border. Do you
:17:00. > :17:04.watch the political divide and with the election, have you noticed the
:17:05. > :17:09.political divide and is that a factor when you are making your
:17:10. > :17:15.decision? The rise in Euclid is a big worry and a factor pushing me
:17:16. > :17:22.further towards yes. `` rise in UKIP. If that many people are voting
:17:23. > :17:28.for UKIP how many people will vote for out of Europe? And Scotland's
:17:29. > :17:33.votes have not had an effect on the party elected to govern them since
:17:34. > :17:38.the 1940s. We will not be able to influence whether we are in Europe
:17:39. > :17:43.or not if there is a referendum. That is a big worry and I think we
:17:44. > :17:47.have more chance of staying in Europe if we become an independent
:17:48. > :17:56.Scotland. Is there anyone here for leaving Europe? Not a single person.
:17:57. > :18:04.Only 33% of the pop elation, and I am not sure whether that includes
:18:05. > :18:11.the UK. 33% of Scots voted. If more than half of us cannot be bothered
:18:12. > :18:15.to vote in the first place, we cannot moan about what happens. If
:18:16. > :18:21.more of us had voted against UKIP, they might not have got in. It is a
:18:22. > :18:28.possibility. Talking of the vote, this is for the first time gives you
:18:29. > :18:33.a say in something that could change and shape your future. How do you
:18:34. > :18:40.feel about the decisions and making them in the run up to September? I
:18:41. > :18:46.am ready to vote, well not ready, ready but I want to vote. It is a
:18:47. > :18:51.big responsibility and everyone is saying 16 and 17`year`olds will use
:18:52. > :18:58.their vote carelessly. But now the figures are out, only 33% have
:18:59. > :19:06.voted. What does that say about the rest of Scotland. You cannot just
:19:07. > :19:16.say 16 and 17`year`olds will not vote when more than half of a nation
:19:17. > :19:19.was not voting. Would you have voted in the Euro elections? I definitely
:19:20. > :19:21.would have done. vote when more than half of a nation
:19:22. > :19:25.was not voting. Would Every vote will go toward something and if you
:19:26. > :19:29.don't vote, you cannot moan about the decision afterwards. If you have
:19:30. > :19:31.an opinion towards something, you have to vote for it and fight for
:19:32. > :19:34.that. You cannot moan about it afterwards and say you are not happy
:19:35. > :19:38.with what has happened when you have not said or voted in any way. This
:19:39. > :19:47.could be the biggest electoral turnout, according to the polls and
:19:48. > :19:57.around 70 to 80% of people will turn out. What does having to vote mean
:19:58. > :19:59.to you? I like having the vote but I think it is interesting we are
:20:00. > :20:00.getting it for the referendum. If SNP strongly believed, they have
:20:01. > :20:05.been in power for a long time, and it is interesting when it comes to
:20:06. > :20:11.the referendum 16 and 17`year`olds are allowed to vote. Have they just
:20:12. > :20:13.allowed us to vote to get some swing? I
:20:14. > :20:17.allowed us to vote to get some swing? know a lot of people do think
:20:18. > :20:22.the SNP gave us the vote because they thought young voters, easily
:20:23. > :20:29.influenced and we can get them on board. Scottish Labour also said
:20:30. > :20:33.they wanted 16 and 17`year`olds to vote. They have been in power for a
:20:34. > :20:39.while and they did nothing about it. At least the SNP did something about
:20:40. > :20:43.it. It can be seen that way, but I don't think that was the reason. I
:20:44. > :20:51.think they had the guts to stand up for what they believed in and gave
:20:52. > :20:58.it to the 16 and 17`year`olds. If that is it, why is it only for the
:20:59. > :21:08.referendum? After the election you can change after five years. We
:21:09. > :21:11.cannot change this. It is a convenient time to suddenly allow us
:21:12. > :21:17.to vote? Yes, but this is something that will not change. You will be 18
:21:18. > :21:23.in four years time so you can vote in the next election. If you are not
:21:24. > :21:28.of age, that is it you cannot vote. This is something we cannot say, if
:21:29. > :21:33.we were over 18 we would have voted against it. Because then we cannot
:21:34. > :21:41.do something about it. You sound quite cynical about politicians in
:21:42. > :21:47.general. Is their mistrust when it comes to both sides? I have a major
:21:48. > :21:54.mistrust of politicians. I have been following the Edward Snowden files
:21:55. > :21:57.that were leaked. Very cynical. You have to see both sides of the
:21:58. > :22:03.argument because there is an old terrier motive for letting us vote.
:22:04. > :22:12.One last question, there is a saying that Scotland is one big argument.
:22:13. > :22:16.You seem to have bonded as a group of generation 2014, are you enjoying
:22:17. > :22:25.the process of the argument? You are all nodding. If you enjoy it, why is
:22:26. > :22:30.it? I enjoy debating with people. It rings and another level to 16 and
:22:31. > :22:34.17`year`olds, especially in education. It has raised a lot of
:22:35. > :22:40.questions and people are more involved in the political system
:22:41. > :22:44.which is something that was needed. 18 to 25 are the lowest turnout of
:22:45. > :22:49.voters. That is due to mainly, people that age, they have never
:22:50. > :22:55.been brought into the political system. It has never been a question
:22:56. > :23:00.that has been raised with them. The younger we bring people into that so
:23:01. > :23:04.they understand, it will make it easier in years to come when we are
:23:05. > :23:08.18, 19, we will understand it better and bring a lot of young people into
:23:09. > :23:15.the system. Does everybody agree with that? It has been great to meet
:23:16. > :23:20.everyone. We all come from different parts of the country. Sometimes it
:23:21. > :23:26.is easier for others to make a point about something when it is OK for
:23:27. > :23:32.them. It is like saying, if tuition fees go up, it would not matter
:23:33. > :23:34.because my family can pay it. But that is not the same for everyone.
:23:35. > :23:40.You meet people from different walks of life who are in different
:23:41. > :23:45.situations to yourself and they help you understand what happens to them
:23:46. > :23:50.in their own life and you can shape your own vision of what you thought
:23:51. > :23:53.was right before and your views on the world itself. It helps when you
:23:54. > :24:04.want to make a decision on something. The stereotypical image
:24:05. > :24:14.of 16 or 17`year`olds is of people locked in their bedrooms. That is
:24:15. > :24:20.not the truth. In reality, we're not all blindfolded to the world around
:24:21. > :24:25.us. We do pay attention and we do care. Some people who are 16 and 17
:24:26. > :24:34.don't care and think it will not affect them anyway. But there will
:24:35. > :24:40.be people of all ages, 16, 20s, 30s and I think it is good to show we
:24:41. > :24:45.are not all media freaks, we do care about the outside world. We are very
:24:46. > :24:51.glad you have come to give your views today. Thank you all. If you
:24:52. > :24:57.have a question for the referendum booth, you can go on the website.
:24:58. > :25:00.The other thing you can go to is the BBC website where you can find lots
:25:01. > :25:05.of information and questions and answers from these guys about what
:25:06. > :25:18.could happen in Scotland on September the 18th.
:25:19. > :25:27.Lots of sunshine around and a sunny start to June. The first day of
:25:28. > :25:30.meteorological summer. A number of areas in the north`west of the UK,
:25:31. > :25:31.we have weather fronts coming in and this cloud will