:00:00. > :00:29.Now on BBC News, Scotland Decides ` Referendum Today, with Sarah Smith.
:00:30. > :00:33.A former UK ambassador to NATO says the alliance would welcome an
:00:34. > :00:40.independent Scotland. independence would have
:00:41. > :00:45.on defence and foreign affairs. The battle for traditional Labour
:00:46. > :00:48.voters ` Brian Taylor looks at the party's profile in Scotland and the
:00:49. > :00:50.possible impact on the referendum. The moderator of the Church
:00:51. > :00:53.of Scotland calls for both sides to respect each other in the final
:00:54. > :00:56.fortnight of the campaign. As world leaders arrive in Wales
:00:57. > :01:02.this evening for the NATO Summit, a recently retired UK ambassador says
:01:03. > :01:05.the international alliance would welcome an independent Scotland even
:01:06. > :01:09.if the country removed Trident. Dame Mariot Leslie,
:01:10. > :01:12.who stepped down earlier this year as the UK's permanent representative
:01:13. > :01:15.to NATO, also revealed she will be Earlier in the week,
:01:16. > :01:22.the former NATO Deputy Supreme Allied Commander in Europe described
:01:23. > :01:25.the SNP's defence policy One of the UK's three main naval
:01:26. > :01:33.bases is on the Clyde at Faslane, which is home to
:01:34. > :01:36.the nation's Trident nuclear fleet. So what will the future hold
:01:37. > :01:38.for Scotland's defence and foreign affairs if it votes
:01:39. > :01:50.in favour of independence? Hello from the Faslane naval base in
:01:51. > :01:57.magnificent scenery about 40 miles outside Glasgow. We have come here
:01:58. > :02:00.because this is the home to Britain's Trident submarine
:02:01. > :02:04.programme, a programme which is in jeopardy should there be a yes vote
:02:05. > :02:08.for independence, because the new Scottish Government would want rid
:02:09. > :02:13.of Trident from its base here. Defence itself is one of the hot
:02:14. > :02:17.political topics in the independence debate. I am joined by Councillor
:02:18. > :02:22.George Freeman, who worked in and around the base for 18 years here. I
:02:23. > :02:29.also have another guest here as well. There are serious concerns on
:02:30. > :02:36.the impact of the economy. We're not talking about the four
:02:37. > :02:45.boats. The SNP are talking about all nuclear powered boats. We're talking
:02:46. > :02:50.about 13`17. There are 10,600 people employed or dependent on Faslane for
:02:51. > :02:55.employment locally. The local economy
:02:56. > :03:02.devastated. It was made clear that any conventional
:03:03. > :03:07.and following the removal of Trident and all nuclear submarines would
:03:08. > :03:14.only employee in the region of about 1000 staff,
:03:15. > :03:21.the Mormons, with another 2000 and the pipeline. `` at the moment. It
:03:22. > :03:23.is really scary to consider the impact on the local economy. The
:03:24. > :03:27.jobs are very much exaggerated. This is what we hear quite a lot from the
:03:28. > :03:31.Better Together campaign, scaremongering about this. I put in
:03:32. > :03:39.a freedom of information request, and the figure is 520 civilian jobs
:03:40. > :03:46.at the Clyde naval base. There is a total civilian workforce of over
:03:47. > :03:55.3000 people. If you're looking at this, the Scottish Government plan
:03:56. > :03:57.2020, nuclear submarines I2028. In that timescale, the transition for
:03:58. > :04:03.it to a headquarters facility... So there will be different jobs. So it
:04:04. > :04:09.is a long time scale for transition. The age profile of the
:04:10. > :04:14.workforce at the moment is older, but quite a lot of the workforce
:04:15. > :04:18.will have retired by that time. Some people can keep reading skills,
:04:19. > :04:20.will be retrained. You bring in new people for the new job is required.
:04:21. > :04:28.`` new jobs. facility for the Scottish Armed
:04:29. > :04:30.Forces. If you look at Britain, there is a whole lot of big
:04:31. > :04:34.infrastructure of the Ministry of Defence which is down south. This
:04:35. > :04:41.summer that has been stood Faslane, it is different work and different
:04:42. > :04:47.jobs, but you can work out how to do that. So the impact would not be as
:04:48. > :04:50.great as people think? That is the misleading information. 520 jobs
:04:51. > :04:57.directly linked to Trident does not take into account the other 10`12
:04:58. > :05:01.submarines that will also be lost. John Ainslie has confirmed that in
:05:02. > :05:06.the past in a discussion with me. We're not just talking about for
:05:07. > :05:10.submarines here. It is Scottish enterprise who have confirmed the
:05:11. > :05:15.figures of 10,600 direct and indirect people attending on
:05:16. > :05:21.Faslane. But you want to get rid of nuclear`power submarines? The main
:05:22. > :05:26.thing is getting rid of nuclear weapons. A yes vote, I am pretty
:05:27. > :05:31.sure we'll do that. I think what London when they decide would be to
:05:32. > :05:38.scrap it. `` would then. But we won't nuclear powered submarines
:05:39. > :05:42.removed as well. `` we want. I think it is perfectly possible within
:05:43. > :05:47.timescale is we talk about that the workforce can transition to other
:05:48. > :05:51.work. Thank you very much. This is one of the many topics which on
:05:52. > :05:56.social media is a very hot topic. If you look on Twitter, you will see a
:05:57. > :05:57.lot of information and you can find a lot more information on the BBC's
:05:58. > :05:59.own website. The comments by the former NATO
:06:00. > :06:04.ambassador were raised at Prime Minister's Questions, with
:06:05. > :06:17.this question from the SNP's leader The most recent UK ambassador to
:06:18. > :06:20.NATO, Dame Mariot Leslie, has today said that an independent Scotland
:06:21. > :06:24.would be welcoming me to wonder she is voting yes on a referendum, like
:06:25. > :06:29.so many other undecided voters who want a better Scotland. Earlier this
:06:30. > :06:33.year, the Prime Minister gave a commitment on Scottish television to
:06:34. > :06:36.take part in a programme with undecided voters before the
:06:37. > :06:43.referendum. Will he be doing that running away just as he away from
:06:44. > :06:47.the First Minister in a debate? On the television programme, I offered
:06:48. > :06:55.a date and a format. But they seemed to run away themselves, which is a
:06:56. > :06:58.great pity. On NATO, I prefer to listen to Lord Robinson, the
:06:59. > :07:02.Secretary General of NATO, who is absolutely clear that Scotland would
:07:03. > :07:07.be better off inside the UK and the UK would be better off with
:07:08. > :07:11.Scotland. The problem with him is that when it comes to all of the big
:07:12. > :07:16.question is, what currency would a separate Scotland use, what would
:07:17. > :07:20.the position be in Natal, what is the position the European Union?
:07:21. > :07:22.They cannot provide a single credible answer.
:07:23. > :07:25.With me now from Yes Scotland is the Veterans Minister Keith Brown, and
:07:26. > :07:27.from Better Together, the Shadow Defence Minister, Gemma Doyle.
:07:28. > :07:34.Thank you for coming in. Gemma, firstly, can I ask you about the
:07:35. > :07:37.comments made earlier. The ambassador said they would be no
:07:38. > :07:42.problems with Scotland joining NATO. Do you agree? She is entitled to her
:07:43. > :07:47.opinion but it is just that, one person's opinion. We know for a fact
:07:48. > :07:52.that Scotland would have to reapply to join NATO. That does not mean it
:07:53. > :07:56.will not get membership. For sure, but the Secretary General has told
:07:57. > :08:00.us that. 28 countries would have to agree to Scotland joining NATO.
:08:01. > :08:06.Nobody can give us a guarantee that that would happen. What is clear is
:08:07. > :08:13.that the SNP's plans would make Scotland less safe than it is today.
:08:14. > :08:19.It was the supreme allied commander who just that down and said that
:08:20. > :08:24.your plans for Scottish defences were amateur and unrealistic. If you
:08:25. > :08:28.look at defence policy, that is an accusation you could level at both
:08:29. > :08:34.the UK Government and the MOD. If you look at what has happened in
:08:35. > :08:37.Iraq, for example, you will see that other comments have suggested that
:08:38. > :08:42.the military has been hollowed out in the UK. As for Natal, it is not
:08:43. > :08:49.just one person's opinion, this was a very senior official and
:08:50. > :08:58.ambassador for the UK. `` as for NATO. You are happy to refer to
:08:59. > :09:01.heart credibility and post, but not a former deputy supreme allied
:09:02. > :09:12.commander? You criticise your plans as amateurs no amateurish. ``
:09:13. > :09:16.amateurish plans. The criticism levelled shows he has not read their
:09:17. > :09:19.white paper. Some of his comments about Mountain Rescue, he is not
:09:20. > :09:24.read the detail in the White Paper and I suggest he reads the White
:09:25. > :09:29.Paper first. It is an adamant about why NATO would want to exclude key
:09:30. > :09:32.members at a time when there is a perceived threat from Russia.
:09:33. > :09:36.Interestingly, they signed a defence agreement with Sweden and Finland
:09:37. > :09:40.last week because of this thread. At a time like this, they would be very
:09:41. > :09:44.eager for Scotland to join, would they not? At the moment, we are part
:09:45. > :09:52.of the UK, which is a founding member of Natal and gives us a high
:09:53. > :09:56.level of security. `` NATO. These issues do not often impact on our
:09:57. > :09:59.daily lives because of the high level of Corporation and security we
:10:00. > :10:04.have. By working with allies across the world, that work would have to
:10:05. > :10:09.start from scratch again. What we do know Scotland would have to be to
:10:10. > :10:16.Natal Dominic NATO. I do not want us to be out of it for one day. `` to
:10:17. > :10:20.NATO. Scotland would be left less safe than it is at the moment. It is
:10:21. > :10:23.all very well to say look at the detail of the White Paper. No`one
:10:24. > :10:27.thinks it is any detail on the White Paper about the Scottish
:10:28. > :10:32.Government's defence plans for Scotland and it is not good enough
:10:33. > :10:37.for Scots. We do know, and you have been very definite about it, that
:10:38. > :10:41.Trident would have to leave Scotland and it would be nuclear free in
:10:42. > :10:45.Scotland. If that is a top priority for a Scottish Government, why are
:10:46. > :10:50.you so desperate to join NATO, analyse which has nuclear for strike
:10:51. > :10:59.capabilities? Many members of Natal do not have nuclear weapons. ``
:11:00. > :11:04.NATO. It is hypocritical, isn't it, wanting to join the nuclear defence
:11:05. > :11:12.pact? Then you'd accuse the members of Natal who do not have nuclear
:11:13. > :11:15.weapons is being hypocritical. Scotland should be in the, not least
:11:16. > :11:20.because of the strategic position we hold. If you look at things just
:11:21. > :11:27.now, we do not have another time... Maritime patrols we should have if
:11:28. > :11:33.we are part of Natal Dominic NATO `` NATO. We have what we do not need,
:11:34. > :11:47.which is hugely expensive nuclear weapons. George Robertson's view is
:11:48. > :11:51.that Russia should be part of NATO in Scotland should not. What would
:11:52. > :11:56.be the danger of not being a member of NATO for just one day, as you
:11:57. > :12:01.say? It has been a corner stone of his and security in the UK for
:12:02. > :12:04.decades now. We work together with countries around the world. Future
:12:05. > :12:08.is working together with partners around the world. Not trying up the
:12:09. > :12:13.drawbridge, isolationist, nationalist perspectives. Why
:12:14. > :12:17.couldn't an independent Scotland work with other partners around the
:12:18. > :12:21.world? He could but we would have to start from scratch. The UK has long
:12:22. > :12:23.established partnerships with other countries. We have agreements with
:12:24. > :12:29.other countries around the world and a seat at the top table in them
:12:30. > :12:34.actually. It is questionable that Scotland, as an independent country,
:12:35. > :12:38.would have the same influence. Most people would not think it would have
:12:39. > :12:43.that. I urge people that if they are undecided about this issue, take
:12:44. > :12:46.just defence as one issue. Scotland would be less safe as an independent
:12:47. > :12:51.country than it currently is now with the UK. Surveys show that the
:12:52. > :12:55.vast majority of people do not want to lose the UK Armed Forces, even if
:12:56. > :13:01.Scotland were to go independent, people say that. The reality is, on
:13:02. > :13:06.our own, we would be on our own and would not have the security of the
:13:07. > :13:10.UK Armed Forces. Very briefly, is defence a decisive issue for many
:13:11. > :13:17.voters? It is important. It will that come to see me who have been
:13:18. > :13:20.served P 45 is acting to find out about a Scottish defence force. Real
:13:21. > :13:25.difference for Scotland, not nuclear weapons. Stay with me now if you
:13:26. > :13:27.would for a second. We're going to look at the comments made by the
:13:28. > :13:36.moderator of the Church of Scotland. Well, the moderator of the Church
:13:37. > :13:39.of Scotland has urged both sides in the referendum debate to treat
:13:40. > :13:42.each other with respect. As the campaign nears its climax,
:13:43. > :13:44.there's some concern that the passionate arguments
:13:45. > :13:59.on both sides should not boil over into aggressive behaviour. Lots of
:14:00. > :14:02.people have been talking about the issue on social media. Let's have a
:14:03. > :14:41.quick look. still with me. Things are getting
:14:42. > :14:46.pretty heated. Some people are getting heated and passionate and
:14:47. > :14:51.that's on both sides, but what has struck me is the level of
:14:52. > :14:55.engagement. There were queues outside registration offices last
:14:56. > :15:01.night. Of course one or two people will upset the balance of that and
:15:02. > :15:08.that should be condemned, but this has been a great campaign. We should
:15:09. > :15:12.come together on the 19th of September for the good of Scotland.
:15:13. > :15:19.Have people been passionate about this? They have. I've had great
:15:20. > :15:27.discussions with people, no this? They have. I've had great
:15:28. > :15:33.matter how they are going to vote. We have had an unpleasant tone to
:15:34. > :15:38.this. There are people who have participated in an aggressive way.
:15:39. > :15:44.It needs to stop. Thank you for talking to us tonight. In the
:15:45. > :15:46.referendum trail today, Nicola Sturgeon launched a campaign to
:15:47. > :16:01.target Labour voters. Alistair Darling was confident Labour backers
:16:02. > :16:06.would remain with the union. 1947, Scottish miners help the
:16:07. > :16:12.nationalisation of their industry by the post`war Labour government. It
:16:13. > :16:19.helped to embed Labour in Scotland's psyche and they have a
:16:20. > :16:33.power base which is now facing opposition. This is Labour
:16:34. > :17:00.territory, but in Hollywood, it's SNP territory. `` President
:17:01. > :17:08.Hollande. `` Holyrood. There are Labour candidates and the SNP. I am
:17:09. > :17:11.campaigning with a clear and direct message to Labour supporters in
:17:12. > :17:18.Scotland to say to them that yes is the best way to building a fairer
:17:19. > :17:22.Scotland, to make sure we can stop the assault on the vulnerable,
:17:23. > :17:27.protect our health service and make sure we never have two puts up with
:17:28. > :17:31.a Tory government we don't vote for. Alistair Darling sees things the
:17:32. > :17:39.other way round. In Aberdeen he says many who have voted for the SNP
:17:40. > :17:45.previously are ready to now turn out for the union. I am confident we
:17:46. > :17:49.will get to big vote and the majority of people who do vote
:17:50. > :17:55.Labour will come with us. They want better jobs, better pensions, better
:17:56. > :18:01.health service and the future for the family. They are not prepared to
:18:02. > :18:08.put up with unanswered questions. It is a fight and a big choice. And
:18:09. > :18:14.finally, sport. This referendum is not all grim politics. The two
:18:15. > :18:22.candidates here contested a penalty shoot outs in support of a charity
:18:23. > :18:30.for motor neuron disease. Blair Jenkins saw his shot saved, being
:18:31. > :18:37.better together to claim victory. Harmony for a group calls. Voters
:18:38. > :18:42.will decide who is over the moon after polling day.
:18:43. > :18:45.Stay with BBC News that the latest on the Scottish referendum. Tomorrow
:18:46. > :18:51.we will be on the campaign Trail with Ed Miliband as he urges
:18:52. > :19:08.traditional Labour voters to vote no. Lots more information available
:19:09. > :19:12.as well on our website. That is all from me tonight. You can join us
:19:13. > :19:26.every night at 7:30pm and 9:30pm. Until then, good buy. `` goodbye.
:19:27. > :19:30.Delegates at the NATO summit are to be asked to pay over $5 billion a
:19:31. > :19:33.year to help fund Afghanistan's armed forces. With the country in
:19:34. > :19:35.political paralysis because of a disputed election, Afghanistan will
:19:36. > :19:38.be represented, not by a President, but its Defence Minister. The armed
:19:39. > :19:40.forces are improving in quality, partly through better officer
:19:41. > :19:44.training, at an academy modelled on Sandhurst. David Loyn has been out