21/03/2017

:00:21. > :00:26.It is important to set out why we have arrived at this point and also

:00:27. > :00:31.in light of the significant change facing our country to reflect on the

:00:32. > :00:36.importance of giving the people of Scotland a democratic choice over

:00:37. > :00:41.our future. As a result of the Brexit vote, we know changes now

:00:42. > :00:48.inevitable. The question is what kind of right for Scotland should

:00:49. > :00:52.that be decided for us or by us. In the past two years, the Scottish

:00:53. > :00:56.Government has made a number of proposals designed to protect

:00:57. > :01:00.Scotland from the impact of Brexit. It is important to note that had any

:01:01. > :01:09.one of these proposals been accepted by the UK Government, we would not

:01:10. > :01:13.be having this debate today. We recognised early on the risks to

:01:14. > :01:18.Scotland from the EU referendum. Before the referendum took place, we

:01:19. > :01:24.proposed Brexit should be possible if all four UK nations voted to

:01:25. > :01:28.leave. A provision common in federal countries like Australia and Canada,

:01:29. > :01:32.it would have recognised the context of the UK as a multinational, not

:01:33. > :01:41.unitary state. That proposal was rejected. Yes. Would the First

:01:42. > :01:46.Minister recognised that the country is entirely devoted down the middle.

:01:47. > :01:52.It is the job of the First Minister surely to heal those divisions,

:01:53. > :01:54.rather than make them worse? I believe very strongly, when there is

:01:55. > :01:59.a difference of opinion about the best way forward, the best thing to

:02:00. > :02:09.do is to allow people to choose the best way forward. As a result of

:02:10. > :02:14.that proposal being rejected, although Scotland voted by 62%, to

:02:15. > :02:20.38%, to stay in the European Union, we face being taken out of the EU

:02:21. > :02:23.against our will. With massive implications for our economy,

:02:24. > :02:35.society and place in the well. Contrary to the promises made by the

:02:36. > :02:41.no campaign before the independence referendum, our relationship with

:02:42. > :02:44.the EU has been jeopardised. The Scottish parliament should have the

:02:45. > :02:49.right to hold another referendum if there is a significant and material

:02:50. > :02:53.change in the circumstances that prevailed in 2014, such as Scotland

:02:54. > :03:01.being taken out of the EU against our will. It is worth being clear.

:03:02. > :03:06.That manifesto commitment, combined with result of the Scottish

:03:07. > :03:08.election, turning out a pro-independence majority to

:03:09. > :03:13.Parliament. It gives the Scottish Parliament and unquestionable

:03:14. > :03:17.democratic mandate for independence referendum. I will make progress,

:03:18. > :03:22.taken intervention shortly. There is an important point for those who

:03:23. > :03:26.seek to question the mandate. To suggest that an emphatic election

:03:27. > :03:29.victory, a clear manifesto commitment, and a Parliamentary

:03:30. > :03:35.majority on an issue does not provide a mandate, that begs the

:03:36. > :03:42.question, what does? Runs the real risk of undermining the democratic

:03:43. > :03:47.process. I'm grateful to the First Minister, I know she will

:03:48. > :03:51.acknowledge in that election she lost her overall Parliament to

:03:52. > :03:57.majority. It is an important point, if we're talking mandates. Can she

:03:58. > :04:01.tell us what assessment she has made of the view of the Scottish people,

:04:02. > :04:06.the appetite of the Scottish people for the kind of referendum she

:04:07. > :04:10.proposed last month? We won the election on the basis of that

:04:11. > :04:13.proposition. Of course the vote that will take place in that parliament

:04:14. > :04:18.tomorrow evening will demonstrate very clearly whether or not there is

:04:19. > :04:25.a majority in this Parliament for that proposition. Notwithstanding

:04:26. > :04:29.the mandate that we have. I want to make some process. Notwithstanding

:04:30. > :04:34.the clear mandate we have, the Scottish segment did not referendum

:04:35. > :04:37.on independence after the EU vote. Instead, we try to find common

:04:38. > :04:43.ground with the UK Government. I want to make some progress. OK, I'll

:04:44. > :04:47.take the intervention. From the point that the First Minister

:04:48. > :04:52.raises, can I ask, where Mike is deceiving me, when I heard within

:04:53. > :04:54.three hours of that vote, saying she had already instructed civil

:04:55. > :05:00.servants and officials of the Scottish Government to drop the

:05:01. > :05:05.necessary legislation for a second independence referendum? I know that

:05:06. > :05:11.Ruth Davidson has a selective memory. She has of course forgotten,

:05:12. > :05:16.but she said we should seek to stay in the single market after the

:05:17. > :05:21.referendum. If Ruth Davidson had listened clearly, what she would

:05:22. > :05:25.have heard me say, was that I was determined to explore alternative

:05:26. > :05:30.options do independence. What I sought to do was to find a way of

:05:31. > :05:33.allowing Scotland to stay in the UK, while also protecting the most vital

:05:34. > :05:40.elements of our relationship with Europe. In other words, we tried to

:05:41. > :05:46.sway the UK vote to leave, with the Scottish vote to stay. Respecting

:05:47. > :05:51.have those voted in 2014 and 2016. We were encouraged by the initial

:05:52. > :05:56.comments of the Prime Minister, he made a commitment last July to seek

:05:57. > :06:00.agreement with the devolved administrations, before triggering

:06:01. > :06:03.article 50. We argued in our published paper, that the UK in

:06:04. > :06:10.holes should stay in the single market. That seemed the obvious

:06:11. > :06:14.consensus position, in a state where 40% of voters, and two of four

:06:15. > :06:17.nations voted to stay in the EU. That would have been in line with a

:06:18. > :06:23.clear commitment in the Conservative 's own manifesto. I will make some

:06:24. > :06:27.progress. Despite this, the Prime Minister ruled out single market

:06:28. > :06:30.membership without any prior consultation with the devolved

:06:31. > :06:33.administrations. That was a breach of the commitment she made in July.

:06:34. > :06:38.The Scottish Government also proposed ways in which, with

:06:39. > :06:42.political will, the option of Scotland staying in the single

:06:43. > :06:47.market, even if the rest of the UK chose to leave, might be achieved.

:06:48. > :06:52.We proposed significant new powers for this Parliament, short of

:06:53. > :06:56.independence, protecting Scotland's interests in the post-Brexit

:06:57. > :06:59.landscape. Powers that would have effectively deliver the federal

:07:00. > :07:05.solution that some in this chamber say they favour. All of these

:07:06. > :07:09.efforts are compromised. Each and every one have been rejected. There

:07:10. > :07:12.has been no meaningful attempt whatsoever by the UK Government to

:07:13. > :07:18.explore these options, and find common ground. Which brings me to

:07:19. > :07:26.where we are today. Having voted to remain in the EU, we face being

:07:27. > :07:30.taken out against our will. The probability is that our exit, taking

:07:31. > :07:34.us outside the single market will be on harder and harsher terms than

:07:35. > :07:39.most people, including many leave voters would have supported in the

:07:40. > :07:44.run-up to the referendum. The voice of this Parliament has been ignored

:07:45. > :07:48.at every step of the way. Far from any indication of new powers, we now

:07:49. > :07:54.face the prospect of the UK Government using Brexit to reserve

:07:55. > :07:58.for itself powers in areas that are currently devolved to this

:07:59. > :08:05.Parliament. Now all of this raises fundamental questions for Scotland.

:08:06. > :08:09.If the UK Government can ignore this Parliament on one of the most

:08:10. > :08:13.fundamental issues the country faces, what meaning can ever be

:08:14. > :08:18.attached to the idea that the UK is a partnership of equals? If the UK

:08:19. > :08:25.refuses to guarantee the rights of EU citizens focuses on free

:08:26. > :08:29.movement, that despite grinning our population is economically essential

:08:30. > :08:34.for Scotland. What does that mean for Scotland's desire to be an open,

:08:35. > :08:37.welcoming society? If the UK Government is determined to leave

:08:38. > :08:43.the single market, despite the wealth of evidence that doing so

:08:44. > :08:46.could permanently weaken our economy, risking jobs, investment

:08:47. > :08:52.and trade, what does that mean that future living standards and

:08:53. > :08:58.asperity? Because of the collapse of the Labour Party, the current UK

:08:59. > :09:02.Government could be in power until 2030, or beyond. It becomes clear,

:09:03. > :09:07.Scotland faces a fundamental question, it is a question not just

:09:08. > :09:13.of how we respond to Brexit, but what sort of country we want

:09:14. > :09:19.Scotland to be. The answer to that question is surely one which should

:09:20. > :09:25.lie in our own hands. That is the fundamental point at the heart of

:09:26. > :09:34.the day's debate. As a country, we cannot avoid change, but we can

:09:35. > :09:38.choose what can change want. I understand why many people do not

:09:39. > :09:41.relish the prospect of another referendum on another major issue in

:09:42. > :09:48.the space of a few years. That is something that weighs heavily on me,

:09:49. > :09:54.as I'm sure it does with others. However the alternative to planning

:09:55. > :09:59.now, to give Scotland the choice is this, it is simply to drift through

:10:00. > :10:03.the next two years, crossing our fingers, hoping for the best, while

:10:04. > :10:09.fearing the worst. Knowing that no matter how hard we work to avoid it,

:10:10. > :10:14.we may well have two except a hard Brexit, come what may, no matter how

:10:15. > :10:18.damaging that turns out to be. It would mean accepting now, that at

:10:19. > :10:22.the end of this process, we were not even have the option of choosing an

:10:23. > :10:26.alternative pass, that the direction of our nation will be decided for

:10:27. > :10:31.Russ. I do not consider that to be right or fair. The future of

:10:32. > :10:35.Scotland should not be imposed upon us. It should be the choice of the

:10:36. > :10:47.people of Scotland. I will take an intervention. The First Minister...

:10:48. > :10:53.Sorry. I don't know if that indicates any preference. Alex

:10:54. > :10:57.Salmond, the First Minister's foreign affairs spokesman said this

:10:58. > :11:07.Scotland would only seek membership Scotland would only seek membership

:11:08. > :11:11.of EFDA, not the European Union. How can she seek a mandate for

:11:12. > :11:16.independence, if she were not in see full membership of the European

:11:17. > :11:22.Union? The SNP's position in favour of membership of the EU is clear and

:11:23. > :11:27.long-standing. What is beyond any doubt, if we do not become

:11:28. > :11:33.independent, that membership of the EU is ended, because we're taken out

:11:34. > :11:40.against our will. No, I will make some progress. I want to turn to the

:11:41. > :11:45.question of the referendum. As a matter of principle, the timing,

:11:46. > :11:48.altogether with decisions on franchise, and the device of the

:11:49. > :11:52.electoral commission. It should be for this Parliament to decide, just

:11:53. > :11:57.as it was in 2014. That decision should be taken in interests of the

:11:58. > :12:00.Scottish people having an informed choice. Not driven by consideration

:12:01. > :12:04.of what is convenient for any politician and party.

:12:05. > :12:17.The Prime Minister has said that now is not the time and I agree with

:12:18. > :12:22.that. The choice must be informed. It should not happen before the

:12:23. > :12:27.terms of Brexit are known. In a speech she gave at Lancaster house

:12:28. > :12:30.in January, the Prime Minister said, and I quote, I want us to have

:12:31. > :12:36.reached an agreement on our future to partnership by the time the

:12:37. > :12:42.Article 50 process has completed. The terms of that agreement will be

:12:43. > :12:47.clear around six months in advance, autumn next year, to allow for the

:12:48. > :12:51.process of EU ratification. The European Commission has said there

:12:52. > :12:55.will only be 18 months for negotiation. That has led to my view

:12:56. > :12:58.that the earliest time at which Scotland could make an informed

:12:59. > :13:02.choice would be the autumn of next year. It is also important that the

:13:03. > :13:06.choice is made while it is still possible in a timely manner to

:13:07. > :13:11.choose a different path. Therefore it is also my judgment the latest

:13:12. > :13:14.date for that choice, I will make progress, I have taken

:13:15. > :13:20.interventions... The latest date for that choice should be around the

:13:21. > :13:25.time the UK believes the EU in the spring of 2019. That is the time

:13:26. > :13:30.frame I am asking Parliament to endorse today. Let me make this

:13:31. > :13:34.clear, Presiding Officer. If the UK Government disagrees with that time

:13:35. > :13:39.frame, they should set out a clear alternative and the rationale for

:13:40. > :13:44.it. As I have said in recent days, I am within reason happy to have that

:13:45. > :13:47.discussion to see if we can find common ground that I can then

:13:48. > :13:52.propose to this Parliament. However, it will simply not be acceptable for

:13:53. > :13:55.the UK Government to stand as a roadblock to the democratically

:13:56. > :14:04.expressed will of this Parliament. It is of course entirely... I will

:14:05. > :14:08.make progress. It is of course entirely legitimate for the UK

:14:09. > :14:11.Government and for other parties in this Chamber to robustly oppose

:14:12. > :14:16.independence, that is an honourable position albeit one I disagree with.

:14:17. > :14:19.In the circumstances we now face, for the UK Government to stand in

:14:20. > :14:25.the way of Scotland even having a choice would be in my view wrong,

:14:26. > :14:32.unfair and utterly unsustainable. APPLAUSE

:14:33. > :14:38.I will make some progress. Let me turn to the nature of that choice. I

:14:39. > :14:41.have already acknowledged it must be an informed choice. That means the

:14:42. > :14:45.people of Scotland need to know the terms of Brexit and be in a position

:14:46. > :14:50.to assess the pros and cons before making that choice. It also means

:14:51. > :14:54.they need to understand the implications and opportunities of

:14:55. > :14:58.independence, on the economy, currency, Europe and many other

:14:59. > :15:01.matters people have questions about. Those of us who advocate

:15:02. > :15:06.independence have a responsibility to consider a range of issues in

:15:07. > :15:09.light of the changed circumstances brought about by Brexit,

:15:10. > :15:13.circumstances we did not choose to be in, and present that information

:15:14. > :15:18.in a clear way. That is what we will do and we will do so in good time to

:15:19. > :15:24.allow scrutiny and debate well in advance of a referendum that is at

:15:25. > :15:28.the earliest 18 months away and by doing so we will allow people to

:15:29. > :15:33.make a genuinely informed choice between being taken down a hard

:15:34. > :15:37.Brexit path or becoming an independent country able to chart

:15:38. > :15:42.our own course. That will be in stark contrast to the EU referendum.

:15:43. > :15:46.Not only was there no detail and no answers before the vote, that

:15:47. > :15:53.remains the case shamefully so nine months after that vote.

:15:54. > :15:58.APPLAUSE Presiding Officer, let me seek to

:15:59. > :16:05.end on a note of consensus. LAUGHTER

:16:06. > :16:08.We might differ on the best way forward but I suspect that almost

:16:09. > :16:12.all of us across the parties can agree we would rather not be in this

:16:13. > :16:19.situation. The majority of us wish that the UK as a whole had chosen to

:16:20. > :16:22.remain in the EU. We wish the UK Government was pursuing continued

:16:23. > :16:28.single market membership. But we cannot avoid or ignore the

:16:29. > :16:33.consequences of the vote or the UK Government's response. My

:16:34. > :16:36.determination has been to stand up for Scotland's interests and the

:16:37. > :16:43.support of this Parliament has been welcome. But nine months on, there

:16:44. > :16:46.is no indication at all that this Parliament's voice has carried

:16:47. > :16:53.anyway at Westminster. Instead the UK Government is taking decisions

:16:54. > :16:57.unilaterally that I and many others believe will deeply damage our

:16:58. > :17:02.economy, society and standing in the world. Whether we like it or not,

:17:03. > :17:07.Scotland again faces a fundamental decision about what sort of country

:17:08. > :17:11.we want to be. The question before this Chamber is simple. Who gets to

:17:12. > :17:15.make that decision? The answer cannot be me and it cannot be the

:17:16. > :17:21.Prime Minister. The decision about what kind of country we are and what

:17:22. > :17:25.path we take can only be made by the people of Scotland. It is for that

:17:26. > :17:29.reason I ask members to support the motion before us today. I move the

:17:30. > :17:42.motion in my name. APPLAUSE

:17:43. > :17:47.I now call on Ruth Davidson to move the motion in her name. On Monday of

:17:48. > :17:51.last week, the First Minister announced her intention to demand a

:17:52. > :17:55.second referendum on independence. On Saturday of last week, the First

:17:56. > :17:59.Minister used her party conference to demand a second referendum on

:18:00. > :18:04.independence. Today we meet here to debate the SNP's demand for a second

:18:05. > :18:09.referendum on independence. At least this last week has shown everybody

:18:10. > :18:14.what the number one priority of this Scottish Government really is. It is

:18:15. > :18:19.separation not education. This week they have made clear what comes

:18:20. > :18:22.first. Presiding Officer, we have heard the First Minister speak

:18:23. > :18:26.today. Let me run through what you said about the second referendum in

:18:27. > :18:31.times past. In August, 2014, a month before we voted on independence, we

:18:32. > :18:35.were told constitutional referendum are a once in a generation event. I

:18:36. > :18:41.take it she does not deny saying that. A few weeks later, she summed

:18:42. > :18:49.up all her grammar has to tell her delegates but another referendum

:18:50. > :18:53.would be wrong and we will not do at -- all her gravitas. A year ago she

:18:54. > :18:56.and I addressed the Federation of Small Businesses conference in

:18:57. > :19:01.Glasgow where a businessman asked her why she was dragging us back to

:19:02. > :19:06.a referendum. Looking him in the eye, she promised him, if opinion

:19:07. > :19:10.stays as it was in the referendum, there will not be another

:19:11. > :19:17.referendum. She talks of outrage and I wonder how outraged that man is

:19:18. > :19:20.feeling today. I would just like to ask Ruth Davidson why she has

:19:21. > :19:27.omitted to quote the manifesto I was elected as First Minister on last

:19:28. > :19:34.May. Don't worry, I am getting to that. What I will do is all through

:19:35. > :19:37.her speech, the First Minister was talking about the will of the people

:19:38. > :19:42.of Scotland. Let me read what John Curtis has said. He said each poll

:19:43. > :19:45.has asked a somewhat different question but each has obtained much

:19:46. > :19:50.the same picture are only a third said they should be a second

:19:51. > :19:54.referendum, half recognition not. The people of Scotland do not want

:19:55. > :19:58.it and it will not wash to have a First Minister washing her hands are

:19:59. > :20:04.saying it is not me dragging us there, it is with a heavy heart, a

:20:05. > :20:10.big Tory did this and run away. It will not do. Take responsibility. If

:20:11. > :20:16.all of those quotes I gave you were not enough, for good measure, in the

:20:17. > :20:19.live TV debates we took part in in April of last year, watched by

:20:20. > :20:23.hundreds and thousands of Scotland's voters, the First Minister made

:20:24. > :20:27.herself clear. Support for independence does not increase,

:20:28. > :20:31.there will not be another referendum. Support has not

:20:32. > :20:34.increased. Indeed according to the polls on the weekend, the impact of

:20:35. > :20:41.her announcement last week has led to a drop in support for

:20:42. > :20:46.independence. Never mind. If you are in the SNP, you do not need to

:20:47. > :20:49.acknowledge old promises, still less honour them. We are told today to

:20:50. > :20:58.forget about what was said and instead submit to the SNP's will. We

:20:59. > :21:01.do not. We we will not. Let me set out the many reasons why my party

:21:02. > :21:07.will oppose the motion today. It calls on this Parliament to call a

:21:08. > :21:17.referendum between the autumn of 2018 and the spring of 2019. Order,

:21:18. > :21:21.order. One day you will make it to the front bench, but it will not be

:21:22. > :21:25.this week. The motion also insists it is only this Parliament which

:21:26. > :21:29.will have a say over the franchise and details of the referendum. This

:21:30. > :21:36.bulldozer approach is completely at odds with the way in which the 2014

:21:37. > :21:41.referendum was held. The SNP won a majority with a clear pledge to

:21:42. > :21:44.bring forward a Referendum Bill. UK and Scottish Government the map

:21:45. > :21:49.worked together on proposals for a fair legal and decisive referendum.

:21:50. > :21:51.The Edinburgh Agreement was signed with both sides promising to respect

:21:52. > :21:58.the result. How different things are today. Under this First Minister,

:21:59. > :22:01.the SNP lost its majority, with no clear pledge to hold a referendum, I

:22:02. > :22:06.am sorry, but believing something should happen, if something else

:22:07. > :22:11.takes place, it might be many things, but it is not a clear

:22:12. > :22:17.mandate. Furthermore the SNP want to you Natalie decide on the timing of

:22:18. > :22:24.the referendum and the rules. -- once to unilaterally decide. I

:22:25. > :22:27.remind the SNP to they once described the last referendum with

:22:28. > :22:31.the Edinburgh Agreement and unanimous backing in this Chamber

:22:32. > :22:36.with 92% support across the public as the gold standard approach. This

:22:37. > :22:40.today, this is not the gold standard, it is a tinpot approach to

:22:41. > :22:45.the biggest decision we could ever be asked to make. Let us cut to the

:22:46. > :22:51.chase. The SNP's plan last week was not about holding a fair and

:22:52. > :22:55.decisive referendum. What it is about is a very well rehearsed game

:22:56. > :22:58.which is to put forward an unworkable proposal to wait for

:22:59. > :23:03.Westminster politicians to point it out and to rush to any microphone

:23:04. > :23:11.with the angry face and to trot out the same tired complaints. Once upon

:23:12. > :23:16.a time, it might have worked. But it will not anymore because most people

:23:17. > :23:20.in Scotland are sick to death of the games. Most people in Scotland do

:23:21. > :23:25.not want another referendum any time soon just three years after the

:23:26. > :23:30.last. Most people see the plain common sense in our own position.

:23:31. > :23:33.Brexit is going to be a major challenge for this country and none

:23:34. > :23:37.of us know how it will play out, how we will come through it and the

:23:38. > :23:43.impact there will be. That is exactly why we question how we can

:23:44. > :23:47.make a decision on our future constitutional path at a time of

:23:48. > :23:50.such uncertainty. Why start an independence referendum campaign now

:23:51. > :23:55.at this very moment when the process of leaving the EU is only just

:23:56. > :23:59.beginning? Why ask the people of Scotland to choose our future when

:24:00. > :24:04.they have not had the chance to see it playing out? Most of all, how can

:24:05. > :24:07.the SNP sit here today and demand another referendum when they still

:24:08. > :24:13.cannot answer the basic questions of their own proposition on currency,

:24:14. > :24:20.long-term ship of the EU, the cost of independence? -- long-term

:24:21. > :24:22.membership. Another SNP conference has gone by and another opportunity

:24:23. > :24:30.to answer basic questions has been squandered. In short, the First

:24:31. > :24:34.Minister wants a date but she will not give Scotland a plan. Our

:24:35. > :24:40.position is as follows. There cannot be a referendum until people know

:24:41. > :24:43.what they are voting for, until the Brexit process is complete and they

:24:44. > :24:47.know what the UK and what independence looks like. You do not

:24:48. > :24:51.make a decision on leaving the UK by voting blind and we also believe

:24:52. > :24:56.that there should not be one when there is no political or public

:24:57. > :25:00.consent for it, not when we were promised by this First Minister it

:25:01. > :25:05.would not take place for another generation, that it would not happen

:25:06. > :25:09.without a change of opinion, when it will cause more division and

:25:10. > :25:13.uncertainty for our country. I know my plea will fall on deaf ears on

:25:14. > :25:18.the SNP benches, even among those who voted for Brexit and now see a

:25:19. > :25:26.sense in the polls. They still have not had the guts to stand up for the

:25:27. > :25:32.principle. We know the Scottish Greens are different. We therefore

:25:33. > :25:36.call on them today to stick by their pledge to the people of Scotland.

:25:37. > :25:40.They said it should only come about by the will of the people. There is

:25:41. > :25:44.none. They said it should not be driven by the calculations of potted

:25:45. > :25:51.little advantage. There is plenty of that, I'm afraid. -- party political

:25:52. > :25:55.advantage. Their position as the self appointed moral guardians in

:25:56. > :26:02.this place will be no more if they... I will give way to the cocoa

:26:03. > :26:06.bean of the Green Party talking against his own manifesto pledge --

:26:07. > :26:11.code convener. I am grateful to her for giving way and I'm interested

:26:12. > :26:17.she raises manifesto pledges. When I read in the Tory manifesto from

:26:18. > :26:23.2015, on the very same page as the commitment to hold this reckless EU

:26:24. > :26:28.referendum, we are very clear about what we want from Europe, we say yes

:26:29. > :26:32.to the single market. Have I misunderstood the meaning of that

:26:33. > :26:38.apparently clear commitment? Ruth Davidson. The prime Minster has

:26:39. > :26:42.already said she wants UK firms including Scottish wants to be able

:26:43. > :26:50.to operate within and trade with the single market. It is fantastic. If a

:26:51. > :26:54.new referendum is to happen, it should come about by the will of the

:26:55. > :26:57.people and not be driven by calculations of party political

:26:58. > :27:04.advantage. Pin that to your friend as you go through the voting booths.

:27:05. > :27:11.I know all the analysis and commentary to the debate has pointed

:27:12. > :27:17.to a predetermined result. No point is turning up, we know how it is

:27:18. > :27:22.going to end. The Greens backing the SNP as before. As Patrick has

:27:23. > :27:26.admitted. Even in the Groundhog Day that is Scottish constitutional

:27:27. > :27:32.politics I have a memory. To a time where parties across the divide

:27:33. > :27:36.United for the country. In September of last year, this Parliament voted

:27:37. > :27:40.for ministers to call NHS changes, six months on, no action from the

:27:41. > :27:45.Scottish Government. In September, the Parliament voted to ban

:27:46. > :27:50.fracking, I did not back it, the votes were there in the chamber, no

:27:51. > :27:54.action by the Scottish parliament. In November, the Scottish Government

:27:55. > :27:57.voted to abolish the offensive behaviour at football act, no action

:27:58. > :28:04.from the Scottish Government. In January, the government voted

:28:05. > :28:11.against SNP bands to abolish the Scottish Highlands and Islands

:28:12. > :28:15.board. No action. Five times in six months, the will of the Scottish

:28:16. > :28:24.Parliament has been clear, five times in six months, the SNP

:28:25. > :28:28.government has chosen to ignore it. If to day the vote does go as all

:28:29. > :28:33.the commentators expect, I hope SNP members will reflect, why do they

:28:34. > :28:38.exclaimed that the Westminster government should recognise votes in

:28:39. > :28:43.the Scottish Parliament, when the Scottish Government does not do so.

:28:44. > :28:48.To those Scots who were watching at home, will be SNP explained to them,

:28:49. > :28:53.why votes on crucial issues such as health, education funding,

:28:54. > :28:58.enterprise, energy should be wilfully ignored by the SNP

:28:59. > :29:03.government, but when it comes to independence, and only when it comes

:29:04. > :29:07.to independence, Holyrood is sacrosanct? Presiding Officer, this

:29:08. > :29:11.referendum is maybe this First Minister's priority, it is not mine,

:29:12. > :29:15.and not that of my party. We say that this Parliament focus on the

:29:16. > :29:20.issues we were elected to deliver on, better schools, a sustainable

:29:21. > :29:24.NHS, a growing economy, and a strong Scotland as part of a strong united

:29:25. > :29:36.Kingdom. I move the amendment in my name.

:29:37. > :29:43.Presiding officer, I wish this were the start of a two day debate on

:29:44. > :29:46.education in Scotland. We could focus on the need to close the

:29:47. > :29:56.attainment gap, proposals for young people to give them the best chance

:29:57. > :30:00.in life. To give 250,000 Scottish children the chance to get out of

:30:01. > :30:04.poverty. Instead we are back talking about the only thing that has ever

:30:05. > :30:08.really matter to the SNP. Nicola Sturgeon wakes up every single day,

:30:09. > :30:14.thinking of ways to engineer another referendum because leaving the UK is

:30:15. > :30:20.the only thing that matters to her. It is not improving education in

:30:21. > :30:24.Scotland. It is not moving children out of poverty. It is independence

:30:25. > :30:31.that will always come first. The truth is, it always has. When the

:30:32. > :30:35.first majority Labour government established the NHS and the welfare

:30:36. > :30:40.state, the SNP wanted Scotland to leave the United Kingdom. When the

:30:41. > :30:45.last Labour government introduced ground-breaking anti-discrimination

:30:46. > :30:52.laws, maternity and paternity leave, the national minimum wage, tax

:30:53. > :30:55.credits, writes of work, and civil partnerships, the SNP were arguing

:30:56. > :30:58.for Scotland to leave the United Kingdom. When the UK Labour

:30:59. > :31:03.government delivered a Scottish parliament, the expressed will of

:31:04. > :31:05.the people following a referendum, these SNP still campaigned for

:31:06. > :31:15.Scotland to leave the United Kingdom. Brexit is not the

:31:16. > :31:24.motivation for a another referendum, just the latest excuse. Now we have

:31:25. > :31:30.heard a lot from the First Minister about mandates. People have noticed

:31:31. > :31:33.this shift in the SNP's language. They used to demand that the will of

:31:34. > :31:40.the Scottish people be respected, but the will of the Scottish people

:31:41. > :31:45.was very clearly expressed in 2014. 85% of our fellow citizens voted in

:31:46. > :31:52.the first referendum, and they voted by a clear majority to remain in the

:31:53. > :31:56.United Kingdom. More than two million Scots in the biggest mandate

:31:57. > :32:02.ever given to any political leader in Scottish is rebated to remain in

:32:03. > :32:13.the UK. That is the will of the Scottish people, that is what should

:32:14. > :32:16.be respected. -- Scottish history. We have already heard from the

:32:17. > :32:19.Scottish minister about the need to respect the will of this Parliament.

:32:20. > :32:24.If only she had respected the mandate given to government by this

:32:25. > :32:29.chamber before now. She had several local NHS services free from the

:32:30. > :32:33.threat of closure hanging above their head. The First Minister would

:32:34. > :32:40.have banned fracking, scrapping the football act. This Parliament has

:32:41. > :32:44.had its say on the Highlands and Islands board, and the Scottish

:32:45. > :32:49.Council. This Parliament wanted a change of course from the

:32:50. > :32:54.Nationalists on education. Given it is her defining priority, surely the

:32:55. > :32:58.First Minister will respect about? When this Parliament votes for

:32:59. > :33:02.another referendum, as it inevitably will, thanks to the perpetual crux

:33:03. > :33:06.that the Greens provide. Let's not pretend it reflects the will of the

:33:07. > :33:11.Scottish people. Because it does not. The people of Scotland do not

:33:12. > :33:16.want another divisive referendum. Last week the First Minister said

:33:17. > :33:21.the 2014 referendum was not divisive. She obviously did not

:33:22. > :33:26.speak to many people beyond her own party faithful. My experience, and

:33:27. > :33:30.experience of the very many Scots who have taken the time to tell me

:33:31. > :33:35.on the doorstep, the street and by e-mail is that their country felt

:33:36. > :33:41.more divided than at any time in their living memory. Families

:33:42. > :33:45.argued, colleagues fell out, communities were split down the

:33:46. > :33:50.middle. They bask in their train, no pub, noting in the centre, workplace

:33:51. > :33:59.or living room escaped the fallout. Last Monday, the first day of this

:34:00. > :34:07.campaign, it felt just as hostile and polarised as the 847 and final

:34:08. > :34:11.day of the last. Where does it end? Some of those who voted to leave the

:34:12. > :34:15.UK, and the majority devoted to remain in the UK don't want to get

:34:16. > :34:19.back to the divisions of the past. If there is to be another

:34:20. > :34:23.referendum, if the First Minister must drag the people of Scotland

:34:24. > :34:31.back there, the Labour Party will campaign with everything we have two

:34:32. > :34:45.remain in the United Kingdom. And let me tell you why. -- to remain.

:34:46. > :34:49.If you want to have a different result from the last time, you might

:34:50. > :34:57.want to listen to people who do not agree with you. I believe in the

:34:58. > :35:04.United Kingdom, not as a symbol of past glories, or a purist ideology,

:35:05. > :35:08.but as a living and breathing union nations that delivers for Scotland.

:35:09. > :35:12.The pensioners whose income is secured for a UK pension system.

:35:13. > :35:17.This shipyard workers that are in jobs because of UK defence

:35:18. > :35:19.contracts. The staff in East Kilbride who deliver aid to some of

:35:20. > :35:23.the poorest countries in the world on behalf of all of us. The schools

:35:24. > :35:29.that are built because of the extra money we receive by being in the UK.

:35:30. > :35:32.The NHS we built together, and is sustained because we pool and share

:35:33. > :35:41.resources across the whole of Britain. Businesses large and small,

:35:42. > :35:46.he were able to thrive because of access they have two the UK single

:35:47. > :35:50.market. Scientists carrying out life-saving medical research because

:35:51. > :35:54.of funding from UK research councils. These are the things I

:35:55. > :35:57.value the most. These other things that being part of the United

:35:58. > :36:04.Kingdom has delivered for families Scotland. So much prosperity and

:36:05. > :36:09.security. At a time when so much of the world is ravaged by division,

:36:10. > :36:14.when the trend in too many places is separation, I value the fact that

:36:15. > :36:19.our four nations come together to share sovereignty and resources. We

:36:20. > :36:24.recognise that together we are stronger, more so than we ever could

:36:25. > :36:29.be a part. I say do the members opposite, it is not this union

:36:30. > :36:34.nations which is unjust or unfair, it is the actions of the powerful

:36:35. > :36:43.within it. I hate what the Tories are doing to Britain, I have never

:36:44. > :36:49.felt anger like it. Listen. Listen. The austerity programme is asked

:36:50. > :36:56.destroying public services that we value and the poorest Will.i.am. The

:36:57. > :36:59.SNP cannot escape from the facts. Leaving the UK would make things

:37:00. > :37:05.worse for the poorest people in Scotland. In the six years I have

:37:06. > :37:10.sat in this chamber, I have never once heard a convincing argument of

:37:11. > :37:20.the country. Because separation... Lets see if Kevin can give us one.

:37:21. > :37:27.As she has just mentioned, poor folk. As we see the Tories advancing

:37:28. > :37:31.the austerity agenda, making poor folk even poorer, is she happy to go

:37:32. > :37:42.around doors saying she'll be happy with the Tory government for the

:37:43. > :37:47.next ten, 20, 30 years? The problem for Kevin Stewart, and indeed the

:37:48. > :37:54.rest of the SNP members, they want to replace Tory austerity with

:37:55. > :38:05.turbo-charged austerity. The truth of the matter is, separation would

:38:06. > :38:09.mean ?15 billion worth of cuts. Cuts to schools and hospitals, the

:38:10. > :38:13.government's and figures that. It means cuts to pensions. John Swinney

:38:14. > :38:19.told us that. He entered the UK defence contracts keeping thousands

:38:20. > :38:23.in work. Those are the facts. The Nationalists don't want to hear

:38:24. > :38:26.them, they will howl and rage. Question the prejudice of those who

:38:27. > :38:31.back unity over division. They cannot escape the reality. We are

:38:32. > :38:37.stronger, richer, fairer and a better nation by remaining in the

:38:38. > :38:42.United Kingdom. Tomorrow evening, Scottish Labour MSP 's will vote

:38:43. > :38:45.against the divisive second Independence referendum. That was

:38:46. > :38:53.our manifesto commitment to the people of Scotland, we will honour

:38:54. > :39:02.it. I move the amendment in my name. By: Patrick Harvie to move the

:39:03. > :39:07.amendment in his name. -- I now call. Nice to be given such a warm

:39:08. > :39:14.welcome. Residing officer, if we are at the beginning of potentially two

:39:15. > :39:19.years of debate on the independence question again, it is important we

:39:20. > :39:24.recognise the mixed feelings that exist. I am sure I am not the only

:39:25. > :39:28.member who has seen angry e-mails on both sides of the debate, telling me

:39:29. > :39:32.an independence referendum is an absolute priority, or something that

:39:33. > :39:37.must be opposed absolutely. Keyboard warriors on both sides. I have

:39:38. > :39:44.spoken face-to-face with many people who remain unconvinced, or who have

:39:45. > :39:49.mixed feelings. Equally, we have to acknowledge there are great many

:39:50. > :39:53.people in Scotland, who believe whether reluctantly or with

:39:54. > :39:58.enthusiasm that the future of Scotland has to be decided, not by

:39:59. > :40:05.one parliament or another, or by one government or another, but by the

:40:06. > :40:09.people who live there. Before our political future was thrown into

:40:10. > :40:15.turmoil nine months ago, most independent supporters I knew

:40:16. > :40:20.understood that this was more likely to be again a long-term aspiration.

:40:21. > :40:26.We were going to build the case over the long-term. That included my own

:40:27. > :40:32.party. We suggested one means by which the issue could be revisited.

:40:33. > :40:37.In assessing what the will of the people means, as so many people are

:40:38. > :40:41.keen to use the phrase. Yes, we have to acknowledge that 2014 was an

:40:42. > :40:48.expression of the will of the people, but so was 2016. The 62% who

:40:49. > :40:51.voted to remain inside the European Union, that is also an expression of

:40:52. > :40:59.the will of the people that must be respected. Let me ask in the same

:41:00. > :41:08.question I asked Nicola Sturgeon. What assessment has he done the will

:41:09. > :41:12.of the Scottish people in 2017? The two clearest reasoned expressions of

:41:13. > :41:17.the will of the people are 55% voting to remain part of the UK two

:41:18. > :41:26.and a half years ago, and 62% voting to remain part of the European Union

:41:27. > :41:30.nine months ago. If the UK Government had shown any interest in

:41:31. > :41:35.reconciling those two positions, we might not be webby we are today.

:41:36. > :41:45.On the very point he raises, will he acknowledge the question of 2016 was

:41:46. > :41:51.about the UK staying part of the EU, it said nothing about Scotland and

:41:52. > :41:55.will he also acknowledged there are thousands of Scots, including many

:41:56. > :41:59.in this Chamber, who are furious their votes to remain has been

:42:00. > :42:04.appropriated as some sort of vote for independence when it was no such

:42:05. > :42:09.thing? There are such people and there are also those who are equally

:42:10. > :42:19.furious that their vote no in 2014 is being taken as an excuse to take

:42:20. > :42:25.us out of the EU against our will. It is, Presiding Officer, absurd to

:42:26. > :42:29.suggest we should not respond to and react to the situation and the

:42:30. > :42:34.fundamentally changed circumstances we find ourselves in. Ruth Davidson

:42:35. > :42:39.said, do not just say a big Tory did it and ran away, good grief, I wish

:42:40. > :42:45.they would, but they are dragging us with them, that is the problem. One

:42:46. > :42:53.more. If at some point Scotland was to leave the EU, and under his

:42:54. > :42:58.plans, should there be another EU referendum, if Scotland is ever to

:42:59. > :43:02.seek to go back in? I am perfectly open to that debate when the time

:43:03. > :43:08.comes. The question is whether we seek a section 30 order to argue, as

:43:09. > :43:12.my party did five months ago in October, as we took that decision to

:43:13. > :43:16.our party members, to ask whether they supported the call for a

:43:17. > :43:21.section 30 order, and they did and I was happy to vote with them. The

:43:22. > :43:24.situation has changed not only by the EU referendum result but by

:43:25. > :43:29.everything the UK Government has done with it. The recklessness of

:43:30. > :43:33.holding the referendum to resolve their internal squabbles, the utter

:43:34. > :43:37.lack of a plan, astonishing to be told by Ruth Davidson now should not

:43:38. > :43:41.be a referendum until people know what they are voting for after we

:43:42. > :43:45.saw what happened with the lack a plan in the EU referendum and the

:43:46. > :43:52.disrespect shown to Scotland's since then. The UK Government is using a

:43:53. > :43:55.narrow UK wide majority not only to ignore their own commitments to the

:43:56. > :43:59.single market as they mentioned earlier, very clearly, five, six

:44:00. > :44:03.times on the same pages of the commitment to hold a referendum on

:44:04. > :44:07.the manifesto, commitments to stay in and protect the single market.

:44:08. > :44:13.But also prominent leave campaigners, Daniel Hannan from the

:44:14. > :44:18.Tory party, absolutely nobody is talking about our place in the

:44:19. > :44:23.single market, Owen Paterson, only a madman, his language, would never be

:44:24. > :44:32.mine, only a madman would leave the market. Nigel Farage Arron Banks and

:44:33. > :44:36.others. Look, Ruth Davidson as well, not just in the EU referendum debate

:44:37. > :44:42.but after the result was in, I want to stay in the single market. Yes,

:44:43. > :44:47.even if the consequence is retaining free movement of labour. Yes. I give

:44:48. > :44:49.her credit for that at the time and I think her abandonment of that

:44:50. > :44:58.position is disgraceful. APPLAUSE

:44:59. > :45:04.Whether you believe in a deregulated free market or, as I do, if you

:45:05. > :45:08.place value on the raft of social and environmental and economic

:45:09. > :45:12.regulations which have come from the EU and protect our quality of life,

:45:13. > :45:17.the argument about how a single market works, what it means, it is

:45:18. > :45:22.critical. It must include a shared approach to regulation and to

:45:23. > :45:27.freedom of movement. We have already heard and we will continue to here

:45:28. > :45:33.terms like access to the single market, mealy-mouthed terms, it

:45:34. > :45:37.cannot be taken seriously, that kind of language because it will not mean

:45:38. > :45:41.access for people deciding where they want to move for work, it will

:45:42. > :45:45.mean access only for business. If you are not free to decide unimpeded

:45:46. > :45:50.where you wish to sell your labour, you are not in a single market. If

:45:51. > :45:53.anyone is to be accused of breaking promises today, it is the Tory party

:45:54. > :46:01.in both parliaments. The green amendment talks of the terms in

:46:02. > :46:07.which this Parliament should set the franchise and the timing. Young

:46:08. > :46:10.voters and citizens of other EU countries were deliberately excluded

:46:11. > :46:16.from the vote last year by the UK Government. We should not be

:46:17. > :46:19.satisfied at that. Neither group is expected to be particularly

:46:20. > :46:23.pro-independence in 2014 but we all agreed they had a right to take

:46:24. > :46:29.part, to determine the future of the country they live in. Those who have

:46:30. > :46:32.chosen to come here from other EU countries in particular have been

:46:33. > :46:38.treated in the shabbiest way possible by the UK Government. Their

:46:39. > :46:42.lives, careers, contribution to our society and the future of their

:46:43. > :46:48.families, treated as playthings. Even those who hold an affection for

:46:49. > :46:53.the UK as a political union or for Britishness as an identity must

:46:54. > :46:56.surely look at the way the UK Government is treating our friends,

:46:57. > :47:04.neighbours and colleagues and be ashamed. In relation to the Labour

:47:05. > :47:08.and Liberal Democrat amendments, they both, I am sorry to say, sounds

:47:09. > :47:14.like wishful thinking. If fantasy of a federal UK that simply does not

:47:15. > :47:19.exist. The idea of Scotland's strong place in a federal Britain which

:47:20. > :47:23.does not exist... Labour have chosen to play the Gordon Brown card early

:47:24. > :47:28.this time around. I wonder what they are holding back for the final weeks

:47:29. > :47:37.this time. As for the Liberal Democrats... Yes, indeed. I

:47:38. > :47:41.understand Patrick Harvie will spend the next two years campaigning for

:47:42. > :47:45.independence but can he tell us will he spent all of his time doing that

:47:46. > :47:51.or will he make the case for power is coming back from Brussels to come

:47:52. > :47:55.to this place? I am not resigned to being taken out of the European

:47:56. > :48:01.Union against the will of the people of Scotland and today's debate is

:48:02. > :48:06.about holding against that. As for the Liberal Democrats, at UK level,

:48:07. > :48:09.they are saying they are the only pro-EU party left, here in Scotland,

:48:10. > :48:14.they want the Westminster Parliament to block our only remaining path to

:48:15. > :48:21.EU membership. As for the Conservative amendment, it seems

:48:22. > :48:26.bizarre to suggest that the Scottish Government must work together with

:48:27. > :48:29.the UK when it takes two to tango. UK ministers have blanked Scotland

:48:30. > :48:34.in this process is ruling out negotiations to respect the way

:48:35. > :48:37.Scotland voted. Theresa May promised to develop a shared approach with

:48:38. > :48:42.all of the devolved administrations before moving forward with Article

:48:43. > :48:48.50. We can now see how empty that promise was. Finally, on the

:48:49. > :48:52.question of timing, the idea of delaying this until after 2019,

:48:53. > :48:57.after we have been given the opportunity to see how the new

:48:58. > :49:00.relationship with Europe is working, it fundamentally misrepresents

:49:01. > :49:05.leaving the EU as something good instead of the act of political

:49:06. > :49:08.wreckage it is. Autumn, 2018, will be after the negotiation concludes,

:49:09. > :49:14.when there is clarity about the arrangements. A deal negotiated by a

:49:15. > :49:19.UK Government Scotland did not choose with an EU institution on

:49:20. > :49:22.which Scotland is no longer represented about Brexit which

:49:23. > :49:26.Scotland did not vote for either and then a period of ratification by

:49:27. > :49:29.every other European country, that would leave the future of Scotland

:49:30. > :49:34.in the hands of everybody else in the whole of Europe, the citizens of

:49:35. > :49:39.Scotland the only people voiceless in that process. I do not think we

:49:40. > :49:42.can accept that. I will not vote for it and I move the amendment in my

:49:43. > :49:54.name. APPLAUSE

:49:55. > :49:58.Thank you. Willie Rennie. Thank you. Liberal Democrats will vote against

:49:59. > :50:04.the Government's motion tomorrow. We are opposed to another divisive

:50:05. > :50:11.independence referendum. I want to address the issue of this cast-iron

:50:12. > :50:15.mandate first. For the SNP, the mandate, for another divisive

:50:16. > :50:20.referendum, it is based on the European Union. But now the SNP tell

:50:21. > :50:26.us they will not seek or guaranteed membership of the EU with the

:50:27. > :50:30.referendum, only, according to Alex Salmond, their official foreign

:50:31. > :50:38.affairs spokesperson, that ex-1st Minister, very clearly said,

:50:39. > :50:42.European Economic Area, that is what they are after. They will use the EU

:50:43. > :50:46.to get the referendum even though the referendum will not get the EU

:50:47. > :50:52.and we know the reason why. They are cynically courting one in three

:50:53. > :50:58.independent supporters who backed Brexit. Some of them in this Chamber

:50:59. > :51:04.here today. They are prepared to use pro-Europeans to get a referendum

:51:05. > :51:13.but sell them out to independence. It is low politics for narrow game.

:51:14. > :51:19.Whilst... We have that Greens. It seems like from a different time.

:51:20. > :51:25.But we can recall the Budget a few weeks ago, the Triumph of a budget,

:51:26. > :51:32.we secured funds, not a penny extra for the environment. Far from being

:51:33. > :51:40.bold and green, it was a bland shade of beige. That was the first broken

:51:41. > :51:44.promise. Now we have the verbal gymnastics of Patrick Harvie arguing

:51:45. > :51:51.manifesto commitments do not count anymore. What happened...?

:51:52. > :51:57.SHOUTING What happened to the 1 million names

:51:58. > :52:03.on a petition? Where is the role of the people deciding whether to have

:52:04. > :52:10.another referendum? Patrick's idea of legislative democracy is a few

:52:11. > :52:15.Green members gathering on a wet Saturday afternoon in Perth to brush

:52:16. > :52:21.up the manifesto commitment. How can the First Minister claim a mandate

:52:22. > :52:26.if she is dependent on the Greens who did not even have it in their

:52:27. > :52:33.manifesto? That is the mandate of the SNP. In just three months, two

:52:34. > :52:38.manifesto commitments blown out of the water that people will remember

:52:39. > :52:46.Patrick Harvie and his excuses. Tomorrow I predict the S and their

:52:47. > :52:49.online bedroom warriors will be battering their keyboards, demanding

:52:50. > :52:55.the will of the Scottish Parliament be respected. I do not recall those

:52:56. > :53:00.masses demanding the SNP respect the will of the parliament when it voted

:53:01. > :53:03.to save the Highlands and Islands enterprise for the Scottish Funding

:53:04. > :53:07.Council or the outrage when they ignored it. I do not recall the

:53:08. > :53:12.marchers on the street of this capital when the Government ignored

:53:13. > :53:16.the vote on the offensive behaviour at football act or the local health

:53:17. > :53:22.services or the education... I could go on. For these people, somehow

:53:23. > :53:25.Parliament and the camps when it agrees with the Scottish National

:53:26. > :53:30.Party trucker somehow Parliament only counts. This Parliament has

:53:31. > :53:40.been systematically undermined by the SNP when it does not agree with

:53:41. > :53:49.the SNP. But when... This Scottish Parliament is not the Parliament of

:53:50. > :54:00.the Scottish National Party. The referendum in 2014 was a fair, legal

:54:01. > :54:03.and decisive vote, as agreed and specified by the Edinburgh

:54:04. > :54:07.Agreement, Presiding Officer. With great fanfare, I remember it, the

:54:08. > :54:12.agreement was signed at a grand occasion, high up on St Andrews

:54:13. > :54:20.house, with high security but nobody watching. A special broadcast by the

:54:21. > :54:24.First Minister at the time was made to mark the special occasion, both

:54:25. > :54:31.sides were supposed to respect the result. With such demands, today

:54:32. > :54:35.they are breaching the Edinburgh Agreement. That is what this

:54:36. > :54:40.Scottish National Party are doing. It does not bode well for the

:54:41. > :54:43.ability of an independent Scotland sticking to international treaties

:54:44. > :54:51.if they cannot even stick to this agreement that it signs now. Alex

:54:52. > :54:54.Salmond said the referendum in 2014 was a once-in-a-lifetime

:54:55. > :55:01.opportunity. Some may have heard him at the weekend. He denied he ever

:55:02. > :55:07.said it. Despite it being on the record. We have it on YouTube. Then

:55:08. > :55:12.he denied that he denied it, despite that being on YouTube too. Then he

:55:13. > :55:18.dismissed the whole thing as being complete and utter nonsense. It is

:55:19. > :55:27.the fastest denial about a denial about a broken promise that has ever

:55:28. > :55:36.been given. How long is for ever? Said Alice. Sometimes just one

:55:37. > :55:43.second, said the white rabbit. Time is a relative concept especially in

:55:44. > :55:50.Wonderland. Or indeed in the SNP's Scotland. Point of order. I hope

:55:51. > :55:58.this is a point of order and not an interruption disguised as a point of

:55:59. > :56:01.order. It is a point of order. In a debate, you need to show courtesy to

:56:02. > :56:06.others in the Chamber. Not taking any interventions at any point in

:56:07. > :56:10.your speech, it is not showing respect to other members in the

:56:11. > :56:20.Chamber. That is not a point of order. Willie Rennie. I thank the

:56:21. > :56:25.Presiding Officer, he knew the answer before he allowed the point

:56:26. > :56:30.of order. Nevertheless, I am sure we have all heard it, in the last ten

:56:31. > :56:37.days, the torrent of abuse from SNP supporters, three-year slumber, call

:56:38. > :56:42.to arms by the First Minister. The feeling of dread that even the First

:56:43. > :56:46.Minister of knowledge at the weekend that will divide families, it will

:56:47. > :56:51.divide communities and it will divide friends. That is exactly what

:56:52. > :56:55.happened last time and if they are deaf to that, they need to get a

:56:56. > :57:00.life. The personal division is good enough on its own to oppose another

:57:01. > :57:05.referendum. But there is wider division too. Division with Europe

:57:06. > :57:18.is not resolved by division in the UK.

:57:19. > :57:41.advocate a opposed last year. And I will oppose on independence, too. We

:57:42. > :57:44.have an awful lot more to do in this country. This government is

:57:45. > :57:50.distracted by their mission of independence. We just have seen in

:57:51. > :57:56.the last few days, the excitement on their faces, the smiles, the

:57:57. > :58:02.anticipation on these benches, slithering at the prospect of

:58:03. > :58:10.another independence debate. But is distracted by its commission of

:58:11. > :58:14.independence. Yet the performance of the education system is slipping

:58:15. > :58:32.down international rankings. The poor mental health services that

:58:33. > :58:35.Scotland this these things. They should be getting the government

:58:36. > :58:39.excited, but today has blown apart any idea they were in this for the

:58:40. > :58:43.greater good. They bravely in it for their good. We have made great

:58:44. > :58:51.progress in reforming Abbey United Kingdom. In just 20 years we have

:58:52. > :58:55.created this parliament based on proportional representation. Built

:58:56. > :58:59.on the foundations of human rights. Gaining more powers, including more

:59:00. > :59:03.recently overtaxed. We should be proud of what we achieved together.

:59:04. > :59:09.Together everybody in this parliament, working together. But I

:59:10. > :59:13.want to create a federal United Kingdom, with power shared across

:59:14. > :59:19.the country, with a written constitution, fair votes, an elected

:59:20. > :59:22.second chamber. These other reforms that are under way to make Abbey

:59:23. > :59:27.United Kingdom even stronger. The campaign for independence undermines

:59:28. > :59:34.that chance. It undermines the momentum. There is a positive case

:59:35. > :59:41.for the United Kingdom. The economic case for the UK is even stronger

:59:42. > :59:46.than in 2014. But it is not just about numbers on a spreadsheet. It

:59:47. > :59:51.is about the values we share. The compassion that has built some of

:59:52. > :59:56.the best charities in the world. Like Oxfam, save the children from

:59:57. > :00:00.the British charities spreading compassion across the world. It is

:00:01. > :00:05.about the compassion that has built the second biggest aid budget in the

:00:06. > :00:09.world. They do not like it, presiding officer. The compassion

:00:10. > :00:14.that has built one of the best health services in the world. It is

:00:15. > :00:19.not about flags, it is about the ties that bind us together. No

:00:20. > :00:24.Scottish Nationalists coming here or anywhere else in Scotland will ever

:00:25. > :00:28.tell me I should be ashamed of those ties and compassion. That is the

:00:29. > :00:35.modern United Kingdom that I am proud to be a part of. The Liberal

:00:36. > :00:39.Democrats stated clearly in our manifesto we would oppose another

:00:40. > :00:48.divisive independence referendum, and that is exactly what we will do.

:00:49. > :00:52.We moved to the open part of the debate, I will call Bruce Crawford

:00:53. > :00:56.first summer followed by Adam Tomkins. Over the course of the days

:00:57. > :01:01.in coming weeks as we debate whether the people of Scotland are to be

:01:02. > :01:05.given a choice over the future direction of our country, one small

:01:06. > :01:12.but very important word should be a byword, I have heard it used a

:01:13. > :01:15.number of times, it is respect. A lot of the comments contain the

:01:16. > :01:20.language of hatred and division. We should be clear it is time to stop

:01:21. > :01:24.it, and stop it now. We in this place have a special responsibility

:01:25. > :01:29.in a public duty to show leadership in respect to. How we carry this out

:01:30. > :01:34.in the course of the debate. I saw a couple of comments last week, that

:01:35. > :01:39.we should on. Firstly, an excellent blog from Chris Cregan from the

:01:40. > :01:46.chief Executive of the Scottish commission for learning

:01:47. > :01:49.disabilities. A comment on his blog showing his message, if we

:01:50. > :01:54.characterise error-prone moments as divisive, we will divide. If we use

:01:55. > :01:57.the language of eight, we will create bitterness. Secondly, an

:01:58. > :02:03.important intervention from the Church of Scotland, saying there is

:02:04. > :02:07.nothing inevitable about this debate being divisive and acrimonious. I

:02:08. > :02:09.implore all those taking part in this great debate, particularly my

:02:10. > :02:13.colleagues and friends from across the parties the Parliament and let's

:02:14. > :02:23.lead from the front, show respect for each other's point of view. Yes,

:02:24. > :02:26.of course the debate will be passionate, it'll be hard argued,

:02:27. > :02:34.and we will be immensely disagreed other. Does not mean we need to use

:02:35. > :02:38.language that creates division and bitterness. Presiding Officer, this

:02:39. > :02:43.debate at its core is about the sovereignty of the people of

:02:44. > :02:47.Scotland. The fundamental principle, given the choice on the future

:02:48. > :02:51.direction of their country. Presiding officer, I hope I am

:02:52. > :02:55.correct that the belief in the sovereignty of the people of

:02:56. > :02:59.Scotland extends beyond the seats occupied by the Scottish National

:03:00. > :03:02.Party and the Green Party. I understand fully there will be those

:03:03. > :03:06.in this chamber, for the own legitimate reasons he believed that

:03:07. > :03:12.the UK Parliament is sovereign. However, for those of us that the

:03:13. > :03:16.legally principle of the sovereignty of the Scottish people, I cannot see

:03:17. > :03:19.how we can come to any other conclusion, we need to enable our

:03:20. > :03:23.citizens to have a right to choose their future. There are those in the

:03:24. > :03:33.chamber he wants you that the people of Scotland decided in 2014 accept

:03:34. > :03:52.them respected the result. Lastly, the EU results or 60% of

:03:53. > :03:56.people choosing to remain in the EU. Providing Scotland with a Democrat

:03:57. > :04:00.Tuttle, a Democratic conundrum if you like. Not a conundrum that

:04:01. > :04:05.should or can be resolved by politicians in Holyrood or

:04:06. > :04:09.Westminster. Only the people who pose a conundrum in the first place

:04:10. > :04:13.have the responsibility, the right to resolve it. That is the people of

:04:14. > :04:18.Scotland. That writer giving people a choice to decide their future was

:04:19. > :04:23.of course strengthened by the election of an SNP government last

:04:24. > :04:25.week. A government, and I say at the First Minister said, with a

:04:26. > :04:32.cast-iron mandate, a manifesto declared. I want to repeat this, the

:04:33. > :04:35.Scottish Parliament should have the right to hold another referendum if

:04:36. > :04:40.there is a significant and material change in the circumstances that

:04:41. > :04:46.prevailed in 2014, such as Scotland being taken out of the EU against

:04:47. > :04:52.our will. In a delicious irony, the right of choice for our people was

:04:53. > :04:59.given greater weight by the arguments given by the defenders of

:05:00. > :05:04.the union in the 2014 referendum. They argued strongly and with

:05:05. > :05:08.passion that Scotland's place in the EU would be jeopardised. It was a

:05:09. > :05:12.central plank of the better together campaign. A central plank in the

:05:13. > :05:19.campaign, a position neatly summed up in a tweet by the campaign on the

:05:20. > :05:24.2nd of September 20 14. What is the process for removing our EU

:05:25. > :05:29.citizenship, voting yes. A position very neatly summed up by that. As it

:05:30. > :05:33.turns out, voting no in 2014 has proved to be the option of

:05:34. > :05:38.guaranteeing the removal of our EU citizenship. I'm not taking

:05:39. > :05:42.intervention. Plenty of time over the next two days for people to

:05:43. > :05:47.contribute to this debate in a sensible way. Presiding officer, as

:05:48. > :05:50.the First Minister of Scotland has rightly said. As soon as it was

:05:51. > :05:54.clear what the shape of the Brickley deal means for Scotland. The people

:05:55. > :05:58.of Scotland have the right to have their sovereign voice heard. Our

:05:59. > :06:01.people did not choose the Huybrechts route proposed by the most

:06:02. > :06:05.right-wing government that has existed in this country at any time

:06:06. > :06:10.during my lifetime. The next two years will decide Scotland's future.

:06:11. > :06:13.Westminster will get its say on the outcome of Brexit. The European

:06:14. > :06:18.Parliament will get a say on the ad, Brexit. 27 remaining countries will

:06:19. > :06:24.get their say on Brexit and the outcome of Brexit. Yet our citizens

:06:25. > :06:29.will be denied, I don't think so. They have the right to make their

:06:30. > :06:33.voice heard over our direction, before it is too late for them to

:06:34. > :06:37.change direction. For those of us that believe in the sovereignty of

:06:38. > :06:43.the people of Scotland, I say at this vision time tomorrow though too

:06:44. > :06:57.that the people speak. -- at a decision time tomorrow. Ben

:06:58. > :07:00.Thompson: Bruce Crawford in the debate. If Carl Taylor the debate

:07:01. > :07:04.could be fun in that time, we would not be such a divided country.

:07:05. > :07:11.States in the United States that there is no right to secede.

:07:12. > :07:16.Constitutional approach takes the same fullback and the other

:07:17. > :07:21.provinces in Canada at the right of the session. The Supreme Court in

:07:22. > :07:27.Canada ruled in the clear desire to this user session will give rise to

:07:28. > :07:33.all part of the response to that desire. Obligation in Canada and the

:07:34. > :07:42.other would be to come to the negotiating table, not a duty

:07:43. > :07:55.deliver secession. The position. But the illegal of its fizz of

:07:56. > :07:59.government ship the gist set up in contrast with the United Kingdom, it

:08:00. > :08:05.is clear. United Kingdom made it perfectly clear in 2012 and 2014, if

:08:06. > :08:09.Scotland voted yes, Scotland would leave the United Kingdom and become

:08:10. > :08:16.a new independent state in international law. Canada never made

:08:17. > :08:23.this claim in the Qu bec secession referendum. United Kingdom takes

:08:24. > :08:33.remarkable generous approach to secession. Much more generous than

:08:34. > :08:38.the United States or Spain, more generous also than Canada. But there

:08:39. > :08:46.is a political price to be paid for this constitutional accommodation.

:08:47. > :08:50.Here, in Britain, secession proceeds by agreement, not by the unilateral

:08:51. > :08:58.demands of a separatist government acting alone. Not at the moment. For

:08:59. > :09:01.the Scottish independence referendum, that agreement was

:09:02. > :09:06.reached in 2012, in the so-called Edinburgh agreement. One which were

:09:07. > :09:10.together in First Minister. That agreement bound both United Kingdom

:09:11. > :09:13.and the Scottish Government is to conduct the referendum in accordance

:09:14. > :09:18.with the number of mutually agreed ground rules. Rules about campaign

:09:19. > :09:22.spending, rules about the setting of the referendum question, the

:09:23. > :09:25.franchise, and a rule, for what little it turned out to be worth,

:09:26. > :09:30.that the result of a referendum would be respected by both sides.

:09:31. > :09:34.Also agreed by the two governments was the question of timing. The

:09:35. > :09:41.referendum had to be held within a certain agreed timetable. The

:09:42. > :09:44.contrast between 2012 and the First Minister's unilateral demand for a

:09:45. > :09:48.second independence referendum to be held between the autumn of 2018 and

:09:49. > :09:52.the spring 2019 could hardly be greater. No state governor would get

:09:53. > :09:56.away with that the United States, neither would a provincial premier

:09:57. > :10:00.in Canada. The Prime Minister of this United Kingdom was right to

:10:01. > :10:06.rule it out. Give way to the First Minister. I have set out what I

:10:07. > :10:09.believe the sensible time frame, but I have said again in this chamber to

:10:10. > :10:14.date I am willing to discuss that with the UK govern. The question is,

:10:15. > :10:18.is the UK Government willing to come to the negotiating table to discuss

:10:19. > :10:24.it with me? Does Adam Tomkins think the UK govern should come to the

:10:25. > :10:26.table to have that discussion? The First Minister in her remarks

:10:27. > :10:30.earlier this afternoon said the question of timing should be for

:10:31. > :10:35.this Parliament. That is not how we did it in 2012, and 2014. The timing

:10:36. > :10:39.was agreed between the Scottish game at ending United Kingdom government.

:10:40. > :10:41.I would have thought that the first that have remembered that given her

:10:42. > :10:47.signature is on the Edinburgh agreement. That was based on a

:10:48. > :10:50.number of clear and firm principles. Not a free-floating compromise

:10:51. > :10:54.resting on nothing more secure than the shifting sands of political

:10:55. > :10:57.expediency. It was a principled agreement based on a mature

:10:58. > :11:02.understanding of the right constitutional way to go about the

:11:03. > :11:06.business of the session. It said an independence referendum had to be

:11:07. > :11:10.fair, clear, legal and decisive. This is the second reason why the

:11:11. > :11:14.Prime Minister was right to reject the SNP's unilateral demand for a

:11:15. > :11:18.second referendum. In independence referendum triggered by the First

:11:19. > :11:23.Minister's dismay at the UK's decision to leave the European Union

:11:24. > :11:28.could not fairly be held until two things are clear and settle. First,

:11:29. > :11:33.how the UK's new relationship with the European Union will operate, and

:11:34. > :11:37.secondarily what an independent Scotland's relationship with the EU

:11:38. > :11:42.would be? Would we be required to take steps to join the euro? To join

:11:43. > :11:49.the Schengen free movement area? Compliance with the Maastricht

:11:50. > :11:52.convergence criteria impacting on Scotland's ?15 billion deficit. What

:11:53. > :11:56.would happen with the border for the rest of the United Kingdom?

:11:57. > :11:59.Questions require to be asked and answered before any demand for a

:12:00. > :12:05.second independence for random can be reasonably be exceeded to. As we

:12:06. > :12:08.repeatedly saw last week, Scottish ministers are nowhere near being

:12:09. > :12:16.able to answer any of these questions. They are clueless on the

:12:17. > :12:20.currency, at sea on Schengen, in denial about the deficit and

:12:21. > :12:24.bewildered by the border. Unable to answer even the most basic

:12:25. > :12:29.questions. About the proposition they seek to put before the Scottish

:12:30. > :12:35.people again. Bringing me finally to the point about consent. No new

:12:36. > :12:39.independence referendum should be contemplated in Scotland and a clear

:12:40. > :12:45.majority of Scots want one. And poll after poll after poll after poll

:12:46. > :12:49.shows not only that there is no such majority, but a clear majority of

:12:50. > :12:54.Scots do not want to go through this again. These are the words the First

:12:55. > :12:56.Minister needs to hear, presiding officer. We are the people, we said

:12:57. > :13:15.no, and we meant it. Can I remind members are in the

:13:16. > :13:19.Parliamentary liaison officer and thank Adam Tomkins for the European

:13:20. > :13:23.constitutional lecture, he might get a modern studies lecture from me

:13:24. > :13:29.this afternoon. Behind you, Presiding Officer, our people, at

:13:30. > :13:39.least the outline of people. That's what was in time -- that was the

:13:40. > :13:43.intention when this place was designed. The eyes of the world are

:13:44. > :13:52.on Scotland now watching. I know from my friends working hard the

:13:53. > :13:55.length and breadth of the country in classrooms pupils are transfixed.

:13:56. > :14:12.They will have been talked about the voting system, first past the post,

:14:13. > :14:16.and one has been successful in four out of the five elections we have

:14:17. > :14:21.held since this place reconvened. You might have noticed we don't all

:14:22. > :14:25.agree when it comes to Scotland's constitutional future but today's

:14:26. > :14:32.debate should not be completed with the arguments from 2014 with Gordon

:14:33. > :14:37.Brown playing a not so funny version of Chandler. The debate has moved

:14:38. > :14:39.on, the goalposts have shifted. Against the wishes of every

:14:40. > :14:44.political leader in Scotland we made a choice as a country in 2014, we

:14:45. > :14:49.all live with that choice every day but our manifesto commitment was

:14:50. > :14:53.clear, is stated if there was a material change like Scotland being

:14:54. > :15:00.dragged out of the EU against our will, that would be grounds for a

:15:01. > :15:06.second independence referendum. That is hardly a state secret, we are the

:15:07. > :15:14.Scottish National Party after all. This debate is a fait accompli, we

:15:15. > :15:18.wait and see what London has to say. London, who yesterday forgot to

:15:19. > :15:24.inform Scotland that Article 50 will be triggered next week. In June

:15:25. > :15:34.2015, commenting in the Guardian Ruth Davidson said she didn't think

:15:35. > :15:39.the answer no you cannot will play well in Scotland. You grew up across

:15:40. > :15:42.the hill from me, you are correct on this point. Ruth Davidson is of a

:15:43. > :16:03.different generation then I am... In fact we are four generations

:16:04. > :16:07.apart if you go by Kezia Dugdale as micro maths skills! What about the

:16:08. > :16:16.kids growing up across the water ten minutes from where I grew up

:16:17. > :16:26.posturing Mark in 2013, 20 7% of children in one constituency were

:16:27. > :16:30.living in port -- property. Scottish Government figures last week

:16:31. > :16:38.reported roughly 260,000 children are living in poverty nationally, an

:16:39. > :16:42.increase of 4% last year. The cause? Director of Child poverty action

:16:43. > :16:46.group in Scotland has described the figures as devastating. He said last

:16:47. > :16:55.week these statistics are stark reminder is why the Chancellor needs

:16:56. > :17:04.to end the fees from family benefits. So today's debate matters

:17:05. > :17:11.to these... There is a wee bit too much mumbling off. The debate

:17:12. > :17:13.matters to these children, their future and ambitions and

:17:14. > :17:18.aspirations. Earlier this month I attended the official opening of a

:17:19. > :17:20.school which would not have existed were it not for ?25 million of

:17:21. > :17:29.direct Scottish Government investment. Everyone who comes in

:17:30. > :17:33.the doors of the school should expect the best start in life, they

:17:34. > :17:42.were told, that is not a political statement. Unlike schools in the

:17:43. > :17:46.Deputy First Minister's constituency, can you confirm that

:17:47. > :17:50.school has enough teachers? I will be taking no lectures on education

:17:51. > :17:53.from the Conservative Party who seek to provide selective education in

:17:54. > :18:03.England at the moment and divide people according to ability. When

:18:04. > :18:07.the pupils leave school they might be lucky and leave for the big smoke

:18:08. > :18:11.to study at university or college but what about jobs? In recent years

:18:12. > :18:15.my constituency has suffered disproportionately at the hands of

:18:16. > :18:30.Tory austerity, we have had job losses in HMRC, Dulux, the paper

:18:31. > :18:34.mill, Clydesdale bank... Yesterday afternoon as I was walking through

:18:35. > :18:40.the Kingdom Centre I couldn't help but reflect on how the town and

:18:41. > :18:45.changed since I was drawn up. The discount bargain stores and empty

:18:46. > :18:49.shop fronts. Hard Brexit could cost 80,000 Scottish jobs within a

:18:50. > :18:56.decade, it has been estimated, and cost folk ?2000 in their wages. I

:18:57. > :19:00.will not pretend the status quo is delivering to my constituents, this

:19:01. > :19:05.is not the chase. If MPs vote tomorrow against the Government's

:19:06. > :19:10.position they are merely capitulating with Tory austerity.

:19:11. > :19:16.Quite frankly Scotland deserves better so to the pupils studying

:19:17. > :19:18.right now for their final exams, preparing their assignments,

:19:19. > :19:22.remember this... The political parties of Scotland will take a vote

:19:23. > :19:27.and that will determine your future and the opportunities you will have.

:19:28. > :19:32.We say in the SNP that power should always rest with the people so let's

:19:33. > :19:43.wait and see who is brave enough in this place to let the people decide

:19:44. > :19:57.on Scotland's future. Thank you. Can I start by thanking her and saying a

:19:58. > :20:01.generation represents four years. She said she regrets we are here,

:20:02. > :20:07.the reality is she is delighted we are here because the truth is she

:20:08. > :20:12.has not stood up for Scotland's interests, she standing up for her

:20:13. > :20:16.and the SNP's interests by pursuing another referendum. She talks about

:20:17. > :20:20.the will of Parliament but she ignores the will of the people in

:20:21. > :20:25.Scotland while at the same time trying to hide behind the so-called

:20:26. > :20:29.will of Parliament. And on the will of Parliament, why does she ignore

:20:30. > :20:35.the will of Parliament when it came to cutting local NHS services? Why

:20:36. > :20:38.does she ignore the will of Parliament which criminalised

:20:39. > :20:41.football fans for offensive behaviour? Why did she ignore the

:20:42. > :20:54.will of Parliament when she chose to damage the environment with

:20:55. > :20:57.fracking, abolish the funding council, and pursue continued

:20:58. > :21:01.failings in our education system. Every step of the way ignoring the

:21:02. > :21:06.will of this Parliament when it suits her. Can I say to the Greens,

:21:07. > :21:11.I have to thank them because they supported us anon on those issues I

:21:12. > :21:17.raised. But I have got to say, when it comes to the crunch, as the

:21:18. > :21:22.Budget showed, they will always seek to protect the yes alliance first

:21:23. > :21:26.and Scotland second. This is a party that is meant to be

:21:27. > :21:31.environmentalist, has made a campaign for climate justice. The

:21:32. > :21:35.truth is Patrick Harvey is a nationalist first and an

:21:36. > :21:42.environmentalist second. Patrick Harvey. He needs to decide whether

:21:43. > :21:48.he acknowledges we challenge and vote against the SNP on issues that

:21:49. > :21:53.matter to us or whether he thinks we are going along on any issue, the

:21:54. > :21:56.two cannot be true. Does he not acknowledge the Labour Party bears

:21:57. > :22:01.some responsibility of where we are now with the lacklustre Remain

:22:02. > :22:05.campaign from Jeremy Corbyn after Labour voted in favour of the EU

:22:06. > :22:13.referendum and then handed the UK Government a blank cheque Brexit.

:22:14. > :22:18.Nicola Sturgeon spent the entire campaign is going to the rest of UK

:22:19. > :22:24.attacking the Remain campaign, that was her contribution to the debate.

:22:25. > :22:29.I said to Patrick, when it came to the Budget, he voted for cuts to the

:22:30. > :22:33.community across the country. Let me say to every single SNP member,

:22:34. > :22:37.let's stop pretending you are passionate about the European Union

:22:38. > :22:41.and that's why you are being dragged to this referendum debate. If you

:22:42. > :22:47.genuinely believed being in favour of the European Union would help the

:22:48. > :22:50.case of Independence, you would argue that case because you believe

:22:51. > :22:54.in nothing except independence. And you talk about democracy, Nicola

:22:55. > :22:59.Sturgeon talks about democracy. The truth is we have had two a friend in

:23:00. > :23:04.debates and the Nationalists don't accept the result of either one of

:23:05. > :23:08.them. They only want democracy when it suits them, all they care about

:23:09. > :23:13.is independence at any cost. Let's talk about the day job. Do you

:23:14. > :23:18.remember the way for independence was to demonstrate perhaps the SNP

:23:19. > :23:26.was a competent government? No more the case. After ten years of this

:23:27. > :23:30.Assembly government, health inequality on the rise, the wealth

:23:31. > :23:34.gap increasing, child poverty increasing, life expectancy failing

:23:35. > :23:40.to rise for the first time in Scotland since 1851. That is a

:23:41. > :23:45.record, that should shame every single member on the SNP bench but

:23:46. > :23:49.instead it doesn't because for each and every single one of them they

:23:50. > :23:54.prefer the anger and grievance than actually using their powers to make

:23:55. > :23:59.a difference. The First Minister says about anger, she's right, I am

:24:00. > :24:05.angry, I'm angry that we have a First Minister who would rather use

:24:06. > :24:09.the powers to seek to divide the UK and divide Scotland rather than

:24:10. > :24:14.transform the lives of the men, women and children of this country.

:24:15. > :24:19.She should be ashamed of herself. We heard from Patrick Harvey about the

:24:20. > :24:22.type of debate. I will tell you the type of debate we need, we need a

:24:23. > :24:29.debate with the truth because we didn't give Scotland the truth in

:24:30. > :24:34.2014. The white paper was a fantasy, it was a wilful attempt on the

:24:35. > :24:38.Scottish National Party not to inform the people of Scotland but to

:24:39. > :24:44.misinform the people of Scotland. And even if we take Nicola Sturgeon

:24:45. > :24:49.at her word, that somehow she is genuinely upset about Brexit, how

:24:50. > :24:51.can it be possible that she wants to multiply the consequences of Brexit

:24:52. > :24:57.rather than minimise the consequences of Brexit? Is Patrick

:24:58. > :25:00.Harvey said about the pledge to say if you vote no you will remain in

:25:01. > :25:07.the European Union, there's a reason that was said. Because if you voted

:25:08. > :25:13.yes in 2014 you would have left the EU at that point. Remember the legal

:25:14. > :25:18.advice that cost ?40,000, it never existed. Instead they want to talk

:25:19. > :25:24.about grievance with 15% of trade from the EU compared to 65% from the

:25:25. > :25:29.rest of the UK. So in closing I oppose a second referendum because I

:25:30. > :25:34.love Scotland. I oppose a second referendum because I respect

:25:35. > :25:39.democracy. I oppose a second referendum because I want this

:25:40. > :25:47.Government to focus on ending inequality and defeating poverty. I

:25:48. > :25:53.oppose it because of my Labour values. I oppose it because I want

:25:54. > :25:57.to unite Scotland, not divide it, and ultimately, and this is the key

:25:58. > :26:00.difference, I oppose a second independence referendum because I

:26:01. > :26:11.respect the will of the people of Scotland.

:26:12. > :26:18.I'm sure many of us wish he would spend more time opposing the

:26:19. > :26:24.Conservative Party! When we vote tomorrow on the motion before us we

:26:25. > :26:29.will be laid down in on the milestone in Scotland's story. No

:26:30. > :26:37.one predicted we would be here in early 20 seventeenths debating a

:26:38. > :26:41.second independence referendum but the circumstances have changed

:26:42. > :26:45.dramatically. Some say we have had our say, we should accept the

:26:46. > :26:49.outcome and move on. In response I say we are lucky enough to live in a

:26:50. > :26:55.democracy and it doesn't have an expiry date. We can't ignore how

:26:56. > :26:58.Scotland voted in the EU referendum and its support for Remain. The UK

:26:59. > :27:03.Government decision to press ahead with hard Brexit which means leaving

:27:04. > :27:06.the single market and refusal to countenance a bespoke deal for

:27:07. > :27:11.Scotland or even seriously acknowledge how Scotland voted

:27:12. > :27:16.justifies the decision to give the people another chance to choose a

:27:17. > :27:22.different path for our country and lay this motion before Parliament.

:27:23. > :27:27.This week's vote is of Theresa May's own making. She says she's listening

:27:28. > :27:31.but so far there is no sign she has heard a word Scotland has spoken.

:27:32. > :27:35.The past nine months of also reinforced the view Scotland are

:27:36. > :27:39.simply not a priority for the UK Government. The plea for a bespoke

:27:40. > :28:05.deal has so far been completely ignored.

:28:06. > :28:11.-- the question of compromise has time and time again with being

:28:12. > :28:16.ignored by the UK Government. At no point in the past nine months, the

:28:17. > :28:24.UK breaks the Minister has not found time in his diary to give time to UK

:28:25. > :28:29.committee. They forgot to tell their Scottish counterparts about the date

:28:30. > :28:33.for triggering article 50. Europe and the world has been shaped by

:28:34. > :28:47.nations taking more control in their stated. Other debates have seen the

:28:48. > :28:50.will of the people is not settled. A survey published last week showed

:28:51. > :28:54.support for Scottish independence has doubled since 2012. Support for

:28:55. > :29:00.independence in this country has doubled in four years. In these

:29:01. > :29:03.momentous times we face further intense national discussion, and for

:29:04. > :29:10.many people, as has been said by others, that will be difficult. Some

:29:11. > :29:16.of our fellow citizens will have voted to remain in the UK in 2015,

:29:17. > :29:21.and to leave the EU in 2016. They fear they have the most to lose from

:29:22. > :29:25.another referendum. Others voted yes in 2014, and to remaining 2016, and

:29:26. > :29:32.they feel they have the most to gain. Others voted across different

:29:33. > :29:37.lines. All deserve another say on our country's future. That is why

:29:38. > :29:43.another referendum, in line with the Scottish garment's mandate is the

:29:44. > :29:47.only way forward. UK's lack of response to the Scottish result is

:29:48. > :29:53.the catalyst for this we's historic votes. The next referendum will not

:29:54. > :29:56.be a rerun of the EU vote. Brexit is the most profound illustration yet

:29:57. > :30:01.of why we need to take charge of our own future. When our country faces

:30:02. > :30:06.momentous change imposed from elsewhere against our express wishes

:30:07. > :30:13.we must turn to the people for guidance. We must give people

:30:14. > :30:16.choice. To empower themselves in the decider better, different path

:30:17. > :30:19.compared to what would be forced upon us if we sat back and did

:30:20. > :30:21.nothing. Our relationship with Europe and arrested UK will

:30:22. > :30:27.determine the kind of country we want to live in, and the quality of

:30:28. > :30:31.life for generations to come. Membership single market will

:30:32. > :30:34.benefit my constituency and economy, leaving will damage it. Retaining

:30:35. > :30:40.the free movement of goods and services, will help businesses in

:30:41. > :30:43.our country, leading them will set us back. We need an escape route

:30:44. > :30:50.from decisions taken by the UK Government. In 2015, only 40% of the

:30:51. > :30:56.popular vote in this country, and had anyone member of Parliament

:30:57. > :31:01.elected. Maintaining a meaningful relationship with Europe is

:31:02. > :31:06.important to Scotland. The Scottish people must make a choice of

:31:07. > :31:10.maintaining our long ties of Europe or continuing down the Brexit route.

:31:11. > :31:14.Members of all political parties were arguing it would spell disaster

:31:15. > :31:17.for our country. I hope and pray that the discourse in this

:31:18. > :31:28.Parliament will rise to the occasion. In the aftermath of Trump

:31:29. > :31:30.and Nigel Farage, I hope we can have as a litigant debate on competing

:31:31. > :31:38.visions. What each choice means for future generations and the roads

:31:39. > :31:42.open. We need to look at the opportunities we could grasp, and

:31:43. > :31:47.the deep seated challenges. Projections tell us that between

:31:48. > :31:52.2014 and 2039 the working age population in England is set to rise

:31:53. > :31:58.by 30%, but only 1% in Scotland. With zero EU migration post Brexit,

:31:59. > :32:03.our working age population is set to decline by 5%. With an ageing

:32:04. > :32:07.population to care for, but shrinking tax base to deliver: we

:32:08. > :32:12.need powers over immigration and other areas to secure the future. I

:32:13. > :32:17.say to the other parties, how can we do our day jobs with less taxes, a

:32:18. > :32:24.declining workforce, given the damage that would because if we are

:32:25. > :32:27.completely of Europe. They study which says we face the worst year

:32:28. > :32:32.for living standards in the poorest half of households since records

:32:33. > :32:34.began, and the worst Margaret Thatcher for economy. Let's give

:32:35. > :32:39.people a chance to choose a different path. That is why we need

:32:40. > :32:44.this Parliament to vote for an independence referendum this week.

:32:45. > :32:48.Let's remember the late poet, Edwin Morgan's words at the opening of

:32:49. > :33:01.this Parliament in 1989, do not say we have no mandate to be so bold. As

:33:02. > :33:08.members will be aware, when the take interventions, we have time in hand.

:33:09. > :33:14.I have not heard anyone say, other than the visit and that can change

:33:15. > :33:18.that Scotland finds itself in. Significant change, certainly from

:33:19. > :33:25.these benches, we believe there is an unquestionable mandate to take

:33:26. > :33:27.the course of action it has. The Scottish Green Party has an

:33:28. > :33:33.unquestionable mandate to pursue the section 30 order. People have made a

:33:34. > :33:38.lot of point in time, but nothing stands still, we have moved forward

:33:39. > :33:41.considerably. In fairness to Reef Davidson, she referred to Brexit as

:33:42. > :33:45.a major challenge to our country. It is unfortunate the options of the

:33:46. > :33:51.single market are ruled out. Unfortunate there was no willingness

:33:52. > :33:54.to engage in negotiations. People have talked about considering the

:33:55. > :33:59.indications, that is what I would like to do in the brief time I have.

:34:00. > :34:03.You may think that the most appropriate person would be the UK

:34:04. > :34:06.Brexit secretary. I take assurance from the fact he says he does his

:34:07. > :34:12.job on the basis of facts. We know that the PM has repeatedly insisted

:34:13. > :34:17.that leaving the EU with no trade deal is better than a bad deal. Mr

:34:18. > :34:21.Davies admitted that leaving the EU without a deal would lead to new

:34:22. > :34:26.tariffs and barriers to trade. He did say he was not quantifying the

:34:27. > :34:29.outcome. He did acknowledge there were significant implications for

:34:30. > :34:35.that. I would like to list some of them. The loss of financial passport

:34:36. > :34:38.in, the open skies agreement. The introduction of border checks

:34:39. > :34:43.between the north and Republic of Ireland. Leaving the customs union

:34:44. > :34:46.could also cause delays in customs. Not that that is not the case of the

:34:47. > :34:53.moment, but it would be exacerbated. It would cost UK's tourist access to

:34:54. > :34:56.free health insurance card. When asked whether the Tory government

:34:57. > :35:04.had made an assessment of the economic impact, he said it is not

:35:05. > :35:10.possible to calculate. He added, I cannot quantify that in detail. I

:35:11. > :35:13.may well do in a year's time. He said you do not need a piece of

:35:14. > :35:18.paper with numbers are to have an economic assessment. That is genuine

:35:19. > :35:24.frontier governing, as far as I'm concerned. We know from a leaked

:35:25. > :35:29.Treasury forecast, and the Chancellor George Osborne last year,

:35:30. > :35:34.they estimated caching out of the EU on World Trade Organisation terms

:35:35. > :35:39.would cost the UK 7.5% in lost GDP growth by 2030. The important thing

:35:40. > :35:44.for me, what does this mean for our friends and neighbours who are EU

:35:45. > :35:46.citizens in the UK? Loss of freedom of Europe with not despair when they

:35:47. > :35:57.think the freedom of movement is crucial to the Green

:35:58. > :36:03.Party international philosophy. It is pandering to the xenophobes in

:36:04. > :36:08.the Tory government. And the Labour Party with the immigration control

:36:09. > :36:14.Maxine. The UK has taken an unfortunate turn to the right.

:36:15. > :36:25.Freedom of movement is fundamental. Not part of the Scotland we would

:36:26. > :36:29.like to see. We know that applications are down to Scottish

:36:30. > :36:34.universities. That is unfortunate, last year there was cross-party

:36:35. > :36:37.consensus when I represented the group from the joint ministerial

:36:38. > :36:43.team looking at the question posed visas. There was consensus. Liz

:36:44. > :36:47.Smith from the Conservatives was helpful making representations to UK

:36:48. > :36:57.level. Very unfortunate it is not only are these days. I thank him for

:36:58. > :36:59.taking the intervention. Could you tell me if you think the First

:37:00. > :37:06.Minister's priority is still education? I think the First

:37:07. > :37:13.Minister will have to answer for the First Minister's priority. The

:37:14. > :37:17.reality of the situation, there are the implications regarding research

:37:18. > :37:21.funding, and the loss of valuable researchers. The Times higher

:37:22. > :37:26.education paper talks about fantastic UK researchers heading for

:37:27. > :37:31.Canada. The University of Waterloo recruiting UK academics will read

:37:32. > :37:36.about the future. -- that I worried about the future. The University of

:37:37. > :37:42.Waterloo is located close to the American border. A similar flow of

:37:43. > :37:46.US academics are looking to move since Donald Trump came in. The

:37:47. > :37:50.broader implications for research will have implications that climate

:37:51. > :37:55.change and disease. We know that science is global. Many of the

:37:56. > :37:59.leading programmes in which the UK are involving cannot be scaled down

:38:00. > :38:01.to you national level. In these things, they should be the maximum

:38:02. > :38:23.corporation. -- cooperation. I indeed hope we will hang around

:38:24. > :38:29.for a vote, and a positive future. We know there are fears of EU

:38:30. > :38:32.nationals leaving already. I know of one manager of a restaurant in

:38:33. > :38:38.Inverness, a Polish gentleman, learning German, he sees his future

:38:39. > :38:41.in Germany, not hanging around. We have a growing ageing population, we

:38:42. > :38:47.need to celebrate that. The Highlands needs to import people. We

:38:48. > :38:51.warmly welcome the first is the's invitation for people to come and

:38:52. > :38:56.live in Scotland. Not how I keep things in the cold economics, but

:38:57. > :39:00.people who have come on net contributors, and enriching our

:39:01. > :39:08.country. The EU was set up with laudable aims, I think it would be

:39:09. > :39:14.very disappointing if the fragmentation of the EU continues.

:39:15. > :39:17.The time frame is right. The details of the negotiations will be known.

:39:18. > :39:25.Scottish EU citizens can have their say. As Bruce Crawford say, -- said,

:39:26. > :39:36.the people of Scotland are sobbing. There are two features, one is

:39:37. > :39:40.uncertain, the bankers, and others benefiting from the inequality part

:39:41. > :39:46.of the UK, and a chance to make a wrench races. In uncharted waters,

:39:47. > :39:50.to make social and environment or just as the foundation stones of our

:39:51. > :39:53.futures. Welcoming Scotland taking its place in the countless other

:39:54. > :40:04.small independent nations of the world. Last week, the First Minister

:40:05. > :40:09.gave up the pretence of being the First Minister for the whole of

:40:10. > :40:14.Scotland. She revealed herself to be what we on the side of the chamber

:40:15. > :40:18.have known her to be, leader of the SNP above all else, even above the

:40:19. > :40:20.interests and wishes of Scots. Opinion polls have consistently

:40:21. > :40:27.shown the support for separation has not changed since the EU referendum

:40:28. > :40:30.last year. Poll after poll clearly showing that Scots do not want

:40:31. > :40:33.another divisive referendum on whether we should remain part of the

:40:34. > :40:40.United Kingdom. The first ministers should be getting on with important

:40:41. > :40:44.business, improving public services. The temptation to have another go,

:40:45. > :40:50.at breaking up Britain, has proven to be too great. Last week the

:40:51. > :40:54.deputy residing officer, Scotland lost its government, but gained a

:40:55. > :40:59.pressure group. Presiding officer, I got involved in politics for a whole

:41:00. > :41:03.variety of reasons. I wanted to make my community a better place to live,

:41:04. > :41:07.to make our schools and hospitals as good as they could possibly be. To

:41:08. > :41:11.improve the lives of the most vulnerable in our society. To create

:41:12. > :41:16.opportunities for people regardless of their background. I wanted to be

:41:17. > :41:21.able to hand over our country to the next generation in a better state

:41:22. > :41:25.than when I was born. It is clear that this nationalist First

:41:26. > :41:30.Minister, these Nationalist MSP 's do not share my aspirations for our

:41:31. > :41:33.country. We have been reminded to date and in the last few months that

:41:34. > :41:38.the Nationalists got into politics for one reason and one reason only,

:41:39. > :41:43.to tear Scotland out of the United Kingdom, to break up Britain.

:41:44. > :41:50.Last week the First Minister went back on her word that the

:41:51. > :41:54.independence referendum was a once in a generation event. She went back

:41:55. > :41:58.on the Edinburgh agreement she signed promising to respect the

:41:59. > :42:03.result for the 2014 referendum. She went back on her pledge she would

:42:04. > :42:10.only call a second referendum if Scots clearly wanted one. Well Scots

:42:11. > :42:16.clearly don't want to return to the division of the past. To propose

:42:17. > :42:19.another referendum without strong evidence that a significant number

:42:20. > :42:25.who voted no have changed their minds would be wrong and we don't do

:42:26. > :42:29.it. Not my words, the words of the First Minister so I'd like to know

:42:30. > :42:32.the basis on which she proposes a second referendum, despite what she

:42:33. > :42:38.said in the past. She will have to rely on the support of the sixth

:42:39. > :42:45.green MSPs elected on a manifesto which said that a second referendum

:42:46. > :42:50.should happen and come about by the will of the people, not driven by

:42:51. > :42:55.party political advantage. That's not a cast-iron mandate, it is a

:42:56. > :43:00.weak and narrow-minded for string. Last week the First Minister's

:43:01. > :43:03.speech was littered with incoherence. She said she wants to

:43:04. > :43:09.compromise but has been working towards this moment since the

:43:10. > :43:15.morning after the Brexit vote. She set out proposals but were

:43:16. > :43:20.unworkable and not in the interests of Scotland. Even when the UK

:43:21. > :43:25.Government has found common ground on important points like the rights

:43:26. > :43:29.of EU nationals, workers' rights and cooperation over crime and

:43:30. > :43:34.terrorism, the SNP failed to acknowledge this, ploughing on with

:43:35. > :43:39.their grievance agenda. The First Minister repeated claims that

:43:40. > :43:42.Holyrood may lose powers whilst the Prime Minister has guaranteed no

:43:43. > :43:50.powers currently devolved will be taken to Westminster and Holyrood

:43:51. > :43:56.will in fact gain more power is -- more powers post Brexit. I will not

:43:57. > :43:59.take an intervention, when the First Minister stood in front of

:44:00. > :44:04.journalists last week and refused to show respect of this Parliament and

:44:05. > :44:15.took 22 westerns from members of the press and not one MSP... I will take

:44:16. > :44:23.no interventions. These are powers over many areas like farming,

:44:24. > :44:27.fishing, climate, education, business control and employment,

:44:28. > :44:34.powers handed back to the UK and which the SNP want to hand straight

:44:35. > :44:38.back to Brussels. My constituents on the borders voted overwhelmingly in

:44:39. > :44:43.favour of the UK back in 2014 and I see no evidence they have changed

:44:44. > :44:48.their minds. Indeed sense I get on the last few weeks and months is

:44:49. > :44:53.that if anything they are moving towards a more firmly UK position.

:44:54. > :44:57.The impact of leaving the UK would be hardest felt in my constituency

:44:58. > :45:03.where people regularly travel and work south of the border. The

:45:04. > :45:07.intention to be part of the EU internal market means a hard order

:45:08. > :45:13.is inevitable, putting up barriers between us and our largest market

:45:14. > :45:16.makes no sense and would be a disaster for businesses and

:45:17. > :45:19.residents across the borders. My constituents want the SNP to focus

:45:20. > :45:26.on getting the best deal for Scotland as we leave the EU but also

:45:27. > :45:31.for the SNP to focus on the day job. Improving schools, supposedly the

:45:32. > :45:36.SNP's number one priority, is needed in the borders more than anywhere

:45:37. > :45:39.else. Teacher numbers have plummeted, teachers have been let

:45:40. > :45:46.down by government obsessed with separation from the UK at any cost.

:45:47. > :45:49.The SNP's record on health, policing, growth and employment are

:45:50. > :45:54.poor but it is hardly surprising when everything they do was about

:45:55. > :45:58.independence. The SNP is not Scotland, the country is not with

:45:59. > :46:10.them, it's time they moved on to the things that mattered. Ruth Maguire.

:46:11. > :46:14.The next two years are hugely important, they will determine what

:46:15. > :46:19.kind of country Scotland will be. It's a privilege to contribute to

:46:20. > :46:25.this historic debate on our country's future. In 2014 unionists

:46:26. > :46:30.promised a no vote would deliver faster, better and safer change than

:46:31. > :46:36.separation. The change has certainly been fast but it has neither been

:46:37. > :46:41.safer nor better, and before things speed even more dangerously towards

:46:42. > :46:45.a hard Brexit cliff edge, the people of Scotland must have the right to

:46:46. > :46:48.choose a safer and better future. They can be no question that

:46:49. > :46:54.Scotland should have a choice. The arguments of those who would deny

:46:55. > :46:59.the people of Scotland that choice don't stand to scrutiny. We have

:47:00. > :47:03.heard the decision made in 2014 was meant to settle the question for a

:47:04. > :47:09.generation but democracy does not stand still and the UK, which that

:47:10. > :47:13.generation was promised and voted for, no longer exists. The UK and

:47:14. > :47:20.Scotland's place within it has fundamentally changed. The choice

:47:21. > :47:24.facing us now is fundamentally different. The people of Scotland

:47:25. > :47:28.should not be denied the right to make that choice. We've also heard

:47:29. > :47:34.we have no mandate to give the people of Scotland a choice. Trading

:47:35. > :47:42.mandates leaves the UK PM on shaky ground though I would say. In May

:47:43. > :47:47.2016 the SNP won nearly 47% of the constituency vote, the highest share

:47:48. > :47:51.of the vote in the history of devolution, the highest share in UK

:47:52. > :47:55.terms in over half a century. The SNP won more seats in May than all

:47:56. > :48:00.of the other parties combined. We were relaxed on a manifesto that

:48:01. > :48:04.reserved the right to hold another referendum if there is a significant

:48:05. > :48:09.and material change in the circumstances that prevailed in 2014

:48:10. > :48:15.such as Scotland being taken out of the EU against our will. The

:48:16. > :48:20.opposition might try to convince us we shouldn't honour the manifesto

:48:21. > :48:24.commitment, they should know how absurd an argument that is. Last

:48:25. > :48:30.week the Chancellor received a lesson on why reneging to the

:48:31. > :48:36.electorate was a bad idea. His climb-down was a victory for common

:48:37. > :48:42.sense and democracy. The SNP is a party that believes we should honour

:48:43. > :48:49.our manifesto commitments and the First Minister believes relationship

:48:50. > :48:53.with the Scottish people must be built on honouring our commitments

:48:54. > :48:56.and that is why we will deliver on our manifesto commitments and give

:48:57. > :49:01.the people of Scotland another choice about the future.

:49:02. > :49:06.Circumstances which are fundamentally different to those

:49:07. > :49:10.that prevailed in 2014. Lastly, and probably most disingenuously of all,

:49:11. > :49:16.we have heard another referendum would divide our nation, tear

:49:17. > :49:22.friends and families apart and lead to anxiety and fear. It will only be

:49:23. > :49:26.that if we let it. It is incumbent on all SNP is not to feel feelings

:49:27. > :49:32.of anxiety and division to further our own arguments but to lead by

:49:33. > :49:37.example. Our communities in this chamber and online. I know there are

:49:38. > :49:41.colleagues here who is deeply held views mean they will disagree with

:49:42. > :49:45.loss macro with every fibre of their body and I defend their right to do

:49:46. > :49:50.that but the existence of that disagreement is neither harmful

:49:51. > :49:56.non-divisive. Political differences are healthy and normal, they are the

:49:57. > :50:04.essence and lifeblood of democracy. There should be celebrated and not

:50:05. > :50:10.feared. As this debate continues, all of us in this chamber have a

:50:11. > :50:14.particular responsibility to lead by example in the language we use and

:50:15. > :50:21.the way we conduct ourselves. As my colleague Bruce Crawford elegantly

:50:22. > :50:26.laid out, leadership is needed. Our First Minister is leading by

:50:27. > :50:36.example. At the SNP conference last weekend she implored us to argue

:50:37. > :50:42.with "Passion and commitment yes, but at all times with courtesy,

:50:43. > :50:49.understanding and respect". I will give way. Does the member therefore

:50:50. > :50:53.agree with me it is pretty disrespectful to see another Cabinet

:50:54. > :50:56.Secretary, Keith Brown, stand up and tell everyone in Scotland who

:50:57. > :51:10.doesn't agree with the second referendum that they must be a Tory?

:51:11. > :51:14.Ruth Maguire. Presiding Officer, I hope I have laid out in quite clear

:51:15. > :51:20.language what I think would be an appropriate way to conduct ourselves

:51:21. > :51:24.with. I hope that whatever our political differences, we can follow

:51:25. > :51:29.the First Minister's example in setting the tone for the debate that

:51:30. > :51:35.lies ahead, and language and tone are important. The world is

:51:36. > :51:38.watching, Europe is watching and the people of Scotland are watching.

:51:39. > :51:51.Let's have a debate respectfully and in the way we can all be proud of.

:51:52. > :51:55.Douglas Ross. There has never been a political moment in my life when I

:51:56. > :52:01.felt so relieved, elated and satisfied than when the returning

:52:02. > :52:05.officer announced that 50% of the people in Murray have voted no to

:52:06. > :52:12.independence. I will say at this point that in my first paragraph I

:52:13. > :52:17.have mentioned the Murray constituency than the SNP members

:52:18. > :52:25.did in his entire 15 minutes and he should feel ashamed. In September

:52:26. > :52:32.2014, I felt relieved as a bitter, acrimonious and divisive referendum

:52:33. > :52:36.was over. I felt elated because the result was correct in my eyes and I

:52:37. > :52:40.felt satisfied as I knew we had a legally binding puzzles that both

:52:41. > :52:45.sides would accept the matter was closed. Our once in a generation

:52:46. > :52:50.result had been declared, and the result in Murray was replicated

:52:51. > :53:00.across the Highland and Islands region I represent. In Argyll and

:53:01. > :53:10.Bute 53 cents said no, in Shetland 63% said no... So why are we back

:53:11. > :53:16.here again so quickly? The SNP will say it's because of Brexit. The

:53:17. > :53:21.Nationalists can say that with a straight face despite the fact that

:53:22. > :53:24.after the Brexit result was announced the First Minister was

:53:25. > :53:33.telling the media she had instructed civil servants to draw up plans for

:53:34. > :53:37.another referendum. They said if there were more SNP ministers

:53:38. > :53:41.elected to Westminster, that would make the case for another referendum

:53:42. > :53:45.or if tried and was renewed, basically anything they can hang

:53:46. > :53:53.their hat on to call on all the referendum, they will use it. As

:53:54. > :53:59.they said at the weekend, we will give folk another chance to answer

:54:00. > :54:02.the question, correctly this time. We have already seen in just a week

:54:03. > :54:08.how difficult the case was going to be for independence to be made.

:54:09. > :54:11.Angus Robertson struggled, Ali Whiteford struggles... They couldn't

:54:12. > :54:17.answer the most basic questions Scots want to know. It's clear that

:54:18. > :54:20.Nationalists haven't been trying to strengthen their argument, simply

:54:21. > :54:26.working on having the argument again. The SNP defence spokesman has

:54:27. > :54:35.said they could build up a defence force from scratch. What does that

:54:36. > :54:40.mean when the First Minister won't answer any questions on currency at

:54:41. > :54:43.this time but it will become clear during any referendum campaign? I

:54:44. > :54:48.think there's a number of questions the senior Tory ministers have not

:54:49. > :54:53.been able to answer. David Davis in particular. Could the member

:54:54. > :54:57.therefore set us straight today. Will UK citizens have the right to

:54:58. > :55:04.healthcare on holiday in Europe? What will happen to the open skies

:55:05. > :55:16.agreement? What about financial services and passporting rights? We

:55:17. > :55:21.have had umpteen debate at the SNP's request and they put these questions

:55:22. > :55:25.all the time. What I would like to focus on, if the SNP members will be

:55:26. > :55:30.quiet to listen to an opposition view, I would like to focus on an

:55:31. > :55:35.independence campaign you kicked off last week. That's what we are here

:55:36. > :55:40.to discuss. But also in Europe, the SNP have had more positions on

:55:41. > :55:43.Europe this week than the Greens have had manifesto U-turns and

:55:44. > :55:47.that's saying something but what are they saying to people in Murray?

:55:48. > :55:54.Communities who voted to remain part of the UK and leave the EU, when 49%

:55:55. > :55:59.of people in Murray voted to leave the EU we know many of these votes

:56:00. > :56:03.came from traditional fishing communities. How is the SNP mantra

:56:04. > :56:09.that we don't want to be ruled by Westminster but we do want to be

:56:10. > :56:15.ruled by Europe going to play out in many parts of Scotland? I also want

:56:16. > :56:20.to mention an area of government that's often overlooked while

:56:21. > :56:24.independence is on the agenda and that is governing. In the run-up to

:56:25. > :56:29.the 2014 referendum it was clear the SNP put all of its efforts into

:56:30. > :56:34.campaigning for independence rather than running the country. Their

:56:35. > :56:39.priority was more important than Scotland's priorities and that

:56:40. > :56:42.pattern has continued. My wife is a police Sergeant and icy the problems

:56:43. > :56:51.they face because of the centralising agenda which led to a

:56:52. > :56:56.centralised police force. My sister is a teacher. I have spent almost a

:56:57. > :56:59.decade as a councillor of Moray Council and I know how councils

:57:00. > :57:03.across Scotland are struggling with budget cuts from the SNP but then

:57:04. > :57:08.the same Scottish Government expect them to do more with less.

:57:09. > :57:13.Tomorrow's vote is a crucial one in our parliament's history. The

:57:14. > :57:16.Nationalists will try to push ahead with another referendum because they

:57:17. > :57:23.didn't get the result they wanted last time but I will vote to respect

:57:24. > :57:26.the democratic decision we took in 2014, I will vote against the SNP

:57:27. > :57:34.because I believe Nationalists who said they would respect the decision

:57:35. > :57:38.taken in 2014. Perhaps most importantly I will vote to send a

:57:39. > :57:43.message to this SNP government, get back to the day job. Start working

:57:44. > :57:46.for the people of Scotland and not just working for your separatist

:57:47. > :57:50.agenda of removing Scotland from the UK.

:57:51. > :57:59.Quiet, I want to hear the member. Thank you deputy presiding officer.

:58:00. > :58:05.I think it is disrespectful for SNP members to shout than others because

:58:06. > :58:09.they disagree with us. I said, perhaps most importantly I will vote

:58:10. > :58:12.against the SNP and the Green's plans for another referendum, to

:58:13. > :58:16.send a message to this SNP government, get back to the day job,

:58:17. > :58:19.start working for the people of Scotland, and not just your

:58:20. > :58:28.separatist agenda of removing Scotland from the United Kingdom.

:58:29. > :58:34.Presiding officer, since the 23rd of June last year, Scotland's voice

:58:35. > :58:41.about its place in Europe has been crystal clear. Voters choosing to

:58:42. > :58:44.remain by a 24 point margin. Even so, as the UK Government forged

:58:45. > :58:50.ahead with its breaks it means Brexit. The Scottish Government, to

:58:51. > :58:53.its credit offered a host of compromise proposals to protect

:58:54. > :58:57.Scotland's place in Europe, while still remaining part of the UK.

:58:58. > :59:03.These proposals were ignored by Westminster. Determined to ensure

:59:04. > :59:08.that the voices of Scottish voters were heard, this Parliament voted

:59:09. > :59:12.against triggering article 50, until a substantive post Brexit plan for

:59:13. > :59:21.Scotland have emerged. That vote was ignored, by Westminster. Determine

:59:22. > :59:24.still, not now. All but one of Scotland's MPs in London voted

:59:25. > :59:29.against triggering article 50. They were also ignored by Westminster.

:59:30. > :59:34.Theresa May has spoken frequently about fairness and mutual

:59:35. > :59:41.opportunity, a unity of interests and solidarity. But how can it be

:59:42. > :59:48.fair for Scotland to be so ignored? What opportunities to Scotland game

:59:49. > :59:52.from being ignored? In what world is unity and solidarity achieved

:59:53. > :59:56.through scorn and neglect. Presiding officer, to give the Scottish people

:59:57. > :00:03.a choice over the future direction and governance of the country is not

:00:04. > :00:10.some constitutional obsession. Not misguided nationalism. Rather, it is

:00:11. > :00:12.doing but members of the Scottish parliament are elected to do, stand

:00:13. > :00:22.up for the will of the Scottish people. And it is, unfortunate,

:00:23. > :00:31.there are members of this chamber he would neglect such a straightforward

:00:32. > :00:35.obligation. Labour are unable to opposing critically hard right

:00:36. > :00:39.Tories in Westminster, they are complicit in their zeal to deny a

:00:40. > :00:46.man dated democratic choice to the people of Scotland. And so

:00:47. > :00:50.disdainful are the Tories, that if Westminster ever got the chance to

:00:51. > :00:54.remove Holyrood's powers entirely, it would be the Scottish

:00:55. > :01:01.Conservatives and Unionists handing this Parliament to Theresa May on a

:01:02. > :01:06.silver platter. And what is the deep Theresa May from doing that? So

:01:07. > :01:10.reluctant is she to hear the voice of Scotland. A question we must

:01:11. > :01:16.unfortunately ask ourselves. She failed to move one inch on rising in

:01:17. > :01:20.Scotland's place in Europe. She failed to consult the joint

:01:21. > :01:25.ministerial committee of devolved administrations, before moving ahead

:01:26. > :01:28.with her reckless Brexit plans. She failed to reach an agreement, as

:01:29. > :01:33.promised with the Scottish Government, ahead of triggering

:01:34. > :01:36.Article 50. Theresa May has taught over and over again about the need

:01:37. > :01:42.to strengthen the bonds of our special union. It is the reason

:01:43. > :01:47.Mayhew has torn the bond apart at the seams by offering Scotland

:01:48. > :01:51.nothing but failure, failure and more failure. The Scottish people

:01:52. > :01:55.deserve better, they deserve a free and democratic choice about how to

:01:56. > :02:01.make things better before all the options are throwing off the cliff

:02:02. > :02:06.edge Brexit. Presiding Officer, try as the Tories might to muddy the

:02:07. > :02:10.waters, the hard facts are that the SNP was elected on a manifesto that

:02:11. > :02:15.says right here in black-and-white, I have it here, in case anyone is

:02:16. > :02:18.confused and wish to consult it, the Scottish parliament should have the

:02:19. > :02:22.right to hold another render random if there is a significant and

:02:23. > :02:27.material change in the circumstances that prevailed in 2014, such as

:02:28. > :02:34.Scotland being taken out of the EU against their will. We were elected

:02:35. > :02:40.on this manifesto pledge. 46.5% of the constituency vote. Our vote

:02:41. > :02:47.share higher than any UK Government since 1966. If the other parties in

:02:48. > :02:52.this chamber are going to try and delegitimise what is plainly written

:02:53. > :02:59.in the SNP's manifesto, they may as well tear up their own party

:03:00. > :03:07.manifestos right now. I will. Grateful to the member for taking

:03:08. > :03:13.the intervention. Speaking about delegitimising. Half a million SNP

:03:14. > :03:16.voters backed the UK leaving the EU, including six of our own colleagues

:03:17. > :03:22.sitting amongst them in this chamber. When will the member ever

:03:23. > :03:31.committee representing their views, considering her party has a policy

:03:32. > :03:35.EU membership? The member may believe the SNP does not speak for

:03:36. > :03:38.Scotland, but I would certainly say a party that trailed a dismal second

:03:39. > :03:47.in the recent elections certainly does not. What we are seeing from

:03:48. > :03:52.the likes of Tories and Labour at the moment is a sheer disregard for

:03:53. > :03:58.democracy. Today's vote is about giving Scottish people a choice in

:03:59. > :04:00.the future of their country. A choice that is fully attainable

:04:01. > :04:05.through the powers of this Parliament. A choice brought about

:04:06. > :04:08.through democratic magnate Derek MacKay mandate of the largest party

:04:09. > :04:11.in the parliament. To deny that choice would be unacceptable. Ken's

:04:12. > :04:25.I/O -- Mr Dell said it better, and maybe

:04:26. > :04:32.even better said that when the SNP put in a manifesto, it it does have

:04:33. > :04:38.a mandate to hold on. What a shame that Mr Dell and Ruth Davidson have

:04:39. > :04:41.turned their backs on the democratic rights of the people they represent.

:04:42. > :04:49.Democracy must be allowed to prevail. Scotland must be heard, and

:04:50. > :05:00.Scotland's future must be Scotland's choice.

:05:01. > :05:08.I would like to associate myself with the comments of Bruce Crawford

:05:09. > :05:13.and Ruth Maguire. We should not forget it was the result of a Tory

:05:14. > :05:17.party trying to sort out its internal problems over Europe, and

:05:18. > :05:22.the fear of Ukip that meant we have the European referendum in the first

:05:23. > :05:29.place. I having that referendum, there is no doubt in my mind, across

:05:30. > :05:33.Scotland, across the United Kingdom, and across Europe, there is a debate

:05:34. > :05:39.taking place about the future. We have to ensure that the debate takes

:05:40. > :05:44.place in a civil way, and there is respect, we can ensure that by

:05:45. > :05:47.behaving like that as parliamentarians, in this place, and

:05:48. > :05:53.out there in the communities. Speaking on this debate today, we

:05:54. > :05:56.need to make clear that I very much recognise the sovereign right of the

:05:57. > :06:04.solid -ish people to determine the form of government best suited to

:06:05. > :06:09.their needs. I recognise that during the referendum coming 2014 and now.

:06:10. > :06:14.Today the argument in Scotland has shifted significantly from that of

:06:15. > :06:20.2014. The pace of change is unprecedented right across the

:06:21. > :06:22.world. Here, at home, there are so many unanswered questions and

:06:23. > :06:28.uncertainties that arise from Brexit. Presiding officer, I have

:06:29. > :06:35.been consistent in accepting that the SNP's manifesto in 2016 said the

:06:36. > :06:39.Scottish parliament should have the right to hold a referendum if there

:06:40. > :06:44.was a significant and material change in the circumstances, such as

:06:45. > :06:52.Scotland being taken out of the EU against its will. I have also been

:06:53. > :06:57.consistent in the belief that where there are the Scottish people, there

:06:58. > :07:00.are majority of Scottish people calling for another independence

:07:01. > :07:08.referendum, then politicians should not, and indeed could not block the

:07:09. > :07:12.demand. A view I share with Nicola Sturgeon, he said, and I quote, the

:07:13. > :07:17.ultimate decision as to whether there is a referendum again, when

:07:18. > :07:20.that might be, and what the outcome might be a rural matters entirely

:07:21. > :07:26.for the democratic decision of the Scottish people. She went on to say,

:07:27. > :07:32.and I quote, there cannot be a referendum, and they cannot be

:07:33. > :07:39.independence for Scotland and less people in Scotland clearly want

:07:40. > :07:45.that. -- and there cannot be. S debate, and let the debate be about

:07:46. > :07:49.whether it is the best time to call a second independence of Brendan,

:07:50. > :07:53.let us stick to the facts. The fact is, there is not in Scotland a

:07:54. > :07:59.majority demanding a second independence referendum. At this

:08:00. > :08:09.time. Indeed, the opposite is the case. Thank you for taking the

:08:10. > :08:12.intervention. Will you agree with me, what the Scottish Government

:08:13. > :08:18.have been calling for in terms of this referendum is not to have it

:08:19. > :08:22.now, it is up to two years' time. In answering that point, what I would

:08:23. > :08:27.say to you, since the Brexit vote is taken place, poll after poll after

:08:28. > :08:35.poll has shown there is no appetite at this time for a second

:08:36. > :08:41.independence referendum. That is why, and is it any wonder there is

:08:42. > :08:45.no appetite for the referendum and we don't know what Brexit means for

:08:46. > :08:50.the country. And for the people of our country. My main argument today,

:08:51. > :08:56.is that the Scottish people do not want another referendum at this

:08:57. > :08:59.time. They want us to focus on getting the best Brexit deal for

:09:00. > :09:06.Scotland. They want us to tackle the best crisis -- the growing crisis

:09:07. > :09:11.that is consuming so many of our public services, and large parts of

:09:12. > :09:16.our economy. Why then would I come here today, ignoring the majority of

:09:17. > :09:25.the people of Scotland, and vote for a Scottish independence referendum?

:09:26. > :09:29.I understand. Once again, I thank him for taking intervention. Mr

:09:30. > :09:36.Rally will have heard the comments from David Davis last week, there

:09:37. > :09:40.are no costs thus far, they have not done any analysis as to how much it

:09:41. > :09:45.would cost for a breakthrough deal. How do we know how much it will

:09:46. > :09:48.cost? How do we know we're going to get the best possible deal for

:09:49. > :09:53.Scotland, when the UK drags us out of the European Union? Fecking

:09:54. > :09:59.Stuart MacDonald is making the same case I am making. I have no truck

:10:00. > :10:03.with the Tories, they have created this situation, it is clear from

:10:04. > :10:08.what David Davis says, the Tories have not got a clue what they are

:10:09. > :10:12.actually doing. That is widest part Parliament needs to unite around

:10:13. > :10:16.getting a better deal for Scotland, to ensure we can get that deal

:10:17. > :10:22.moving forward. I understand why Nicola Sturgeon has come to the

:10:23. > :10:28.conclusion she has come to, because she says the case for full

:10:29. > :10:33.self-government absolutely transcends the issue are Brexit,

:10:34. > :10:40.national wealth, or you'll, and the balance sheets. I do not agree with

:10:41. > :10:44.her. -- oil. Like many I'm worried about jobs, the state of education

:10:45. > :10:50.services, the massive skills gaps in our economy. The rise in poverty. Up

:10:51. > :10:55.and down Scotland. The threat to our economy, moving forward. We need a

:10:56. > :11:00.breakthrough deal that works for people. We need a breakthrough deal

:11:01. > :11:06.that works for Scotland. We must focus on getting the best possible

:11:07. > :11:11.deal for the people of Scotland. We cannot simply allow the Tories to

:11:12. > :11:16.dictate what the terms of that look like. All of us, our collective

:11:17. > :11:21.efforts should be on delivering the best possible Brexit deal. We cannot

:11:22. > :11:25.leave it to the Tories and Theresa May. We needed to unite Scotland

:11:26. > :11:35.about getting the best possible Brexit deal for Scotland.

:11:36. > :11:42.I thank you, presiding officer. The notion about sovereignty today is

:11:43. > :11:47.about choice, giving the people of Scotland a choice in the future of

:11:48. > :11:51.this country. This is a truly historic event. It is important to

:11:52. > :11:56.remember how we got here, and how the historians of the future will

:11:57. > :12:02.narrate the events of this decade. A Tory Prime Minister, playing games

:12:03. > :12:04.of politics, not expecting to win a general election outright, made a

:12:05. > :12:08.manifesto commitment he never expected to have to reveal. His

:12:09. > :12:12.coalition parties dissolved into irrelevance, leaving him holding

:12:13. > :12:16.power he never expected to have to exercise, with no choice but to hold

:12:17. > :12:23.a referendum he never expected to lose. A shockingly bad campaign,

:12:24. > :12:26.project fear, Mark two deliver the unthinkable, a referendum defeat.

:12:27. > :12:33.Despite the warnings he had with this project fear Mark one almost

:12:34. > :12:36.threw away a 30 point majority a year earlier. No lessons learned.

:12:37. > :12:40.When the going gets tough, Tory promises get getting out of the

:12:41. > :12:49.door. Rather than clear up the mess, the Eton mess headed for the exit.

:12:50. > :12:56.The new Prime Minister failed to deliver a single objective on

:12:57. > :13:00.immigration takes over the role, rather than recognise the economic

:13:01. > :13:05.and political reality the narrowest of referendum wins, two of four

:13:06. > :13:08.nation supposed to Brexit, the possibility of reducing immigration

:13:09. > :13:14.without trashing the economy and the huge value of the single market, the

:13:15. > :13:19.new regime lurches to the right, in an attempt to slay the Ukip threat

:13:20. > :13:24.by becoming Ukip. We talk of a hard Tory Brexit but let's not forget

:13:25. > :13:33.what it is. The 2016 referendum did not mandate leaving the single

:13:34. > :13:44.market or are no deal exit. It gets worse, as Scotland's place in Europe

:13:45. > :13:48.presented a get out of jail free card, she refused even to engage.

:13:49. > :13:51.Instead of giving UK businesses the opportunity to trade within the

:13:52. > :14:00.single market from within Scotland still in the UK, instead of grasping

:14:01. > :14:04.the differentiated solution to give Scotland and the rest of UK what

:14:05. > :14:11.they voted for, she kept reciting the mantra wrecks it means Brexit.

:14:12. > :14:15.The Secretary of State for Brexit who to admit to a select committee

:14:16. > :14:22.he has done no work on the no deal outcome, his boss has stated maybe

:14:23. > :14:26.the preferred result of Brexit negotiations. Not only are ago over

:14:27. > :14:42.a cliff without a parachute, the driver of the Brexit bus is not

:14:43. > :14:47.looked... Historians of the future will consider this catalogue of

:14:48. > :14:53.calamities, unintended consequences, short-term opportunism, reactive

:14:54. > :14:56.behaviour, and failure of government and they will simply fail to

:14:57. > :15:04.understand why the events of these years was so hard to predict to

:15:05. > :15:11.those caught up in the middle of the melee. Could he say whether he

:15:12. > :15:21.supports a referendum to be held for Scotland to go back into Europe

:15:22. > :15:26.should the First Minister's plans succeed. I fully support Scotland

:15:27. > :15:36.being a member of the European Union. So why is the UK Government

:15:37. > :15:42.so surprised, Scotland's voice counting for nothing despite the

:15:43. > :15:46.myth peddled in 2014 that it might want to take matters into its own

:15:47. > :15:50.hands. They fail to understand how UK Government can spend nine months

:15:51. > :15:54.transfixed on the headlights of Article 50, and by its own admission

:15:55. > :16:01.had done no preparation for what might come next was expecting to

:16:02. > :16:05.deliver multiple comprehensive trade deals in a time period only twice as

:16:06. > :16:09.long. And they will fail to understand tactical error is

:16:10. > :16:14.currently being made because now is not the time means there is a time.

:16:15. > :16:18.The principle of giving the people of Scotland assay has been conceded.

:16:19. > :16:22.It could never be otherwise, yet Tory troops are sent daily to the

:16:23. > :16:27.media front line to argue against giving the people of Scotland voice.

:16:28. > :16:34.There will be a referendum, yet instead of engaging in a debate on

:16:35. > :16:39.substantive issues, the Tory Prime Minister has shifted it onto ground

:16:40. > :16:46.that she cannot hold and an argument she cannot win. It would be

:16:47. > :16:53.inexplicable, the latest in a long line of tactical errors dating back

:16:54. > :16:56.to David Cameron's manifesto commitment to a referendum he never

:16:57. > :17:01.expected to hold and an election he never expected to win. Making

:17:02. > :17:07.mistakes for the Tories is a habit. Looking back in hindsight, Scotland

:17:08. > :17:11.elected to excuse itself from the impending shambles and take the door

:17:12. > :17:14.marked self-determination. That route is clearly marked. The

:17:15. > :17:15.Scottish Government manifesto commitment written with this

:17:16. > :17:36.eventuality in mind. Scotland finds itself at a

:17:37. > :17:41.crossroads, we are faced with two futures and there's only one way to

:17:42. > :17:55.answer the question. The people of Scotland will have the final choice.

:17:56. > :18:01.I made a pompous comment we would be the first generation of MPs not to

:18:02. > :18:04.be defined by the Constitution, three weeks later Brexit happened

:18:05. > :18:11.and I've been regretting those words ever since but I stick by the

:18:12. > :18:15.sentiment, let's be clear about our responsibility and duty as MSPs, we

:18:16. > :18:21.should not be here. We are failing those who elected us by not facing

:18:22. > :18:31.concerns people may have about schools, jobs, businesses. Let me

:18:32. > :18:35.focus on two points. Their position on Europe and their approach to the

:18:36. > :18:40.will of this Parliament. In relation to the EU, the SNP policy has always

:18:41. > :18:50.been incoherent, at best ambiguous, at worst contradictory. Europe has

:18:51. > :18:54.been a tactic to be deployed in pursuit of the Holy Grail. Just

:18:55. > :18:58.hours after the vote on the 23rd of June, the First Minister announced

:18:59. > :19:01.she would legislate for an independence referendum on the back

:19:02. > :19:08.of Scotland being taken out of the EU. Since that vote these benches

:19:09. > :19:11.have been subjected to endless taunts, for months even those who

:19:12. > :19:18.voted Remain were nevertheless born-again Brexiteers. Months the

:19:19. > :19:24.SNP ignored the 1 million Scots who voted to leave. For months the First

:19:25. > :19:30.Minister repeatedly spoke about protecting Scotland's place in the

:19:31. > :19:33.EU. In order to protect ourselves we were told Scotland needs

:19:34. > :19:40.independence. With that in mind would it not be reasonable to expect

:19:41. > :19:49.a full throated commitment the EU from the SNP. But there is no answer

:19:50. > :19:53.on that because perhaps, just perhaps, it has dawned on the SNP

:19:54. > :19:58.that 38% of the electorate who voted to leave might be politically useful

:19:59. > :20:03.after all, especially the of them were SNP voters. And so we are back

:20:04. > :20:08.where we begin in a bid to keep both believers and remain as sweet, the

:20:09. > :20:17.SNP position remains not only inconsistent but utterly devoid of

:20:18. > :20:23.principle. -- both Leavers and Remainers. We are told it would be a

:20:24. > :20:26.democratic outrage of the UK Government rejects the will of the

:20:27. > :20:30.Scottish parliament, but on numerous occasions since May the SNP

:20:31. > :20:36.government has routinely ignored the will of this Parliament. Using its

:20:37. > :20:41.own benchmark, the SNP has committed democratic outrages aplenty. On the

:20:42. > :20:46.NHS, on the Highlands and Islands enterprise, the offensive behaviour

:20:47. > :20:50.at football act. If we take the SNP at face value, they are routinely

:20:51. > :20:55.flouting democracy. Or perhaps we should realise to the SNP the will

:20:56. > :21:02.of this Parliament is a fair weather friend to be used when required and

:21:03. > :21:06.ignored when inconvenient. And by picking and choosing when

:21:07. > :21:10.Parliament's will matters and when it is meaningless, the SNP make a

:21:11. > :21:15.mockery of the very idea they claim to hold dear. Because we all know

:21:16. > :21:20.where this is heading, down at grievance towers or Bute house the

:21:21. > :21:28.stance of the Government has already been broadcast is the latest insult.

:21:29. > :21:35.And why not throw in the ghost of Margaret Thatcher just to get the

:21:36. > :21:40.juices really flowing. What was Keith Brown's phrase this weekend?

:21:41. > :21:49.Scotland against the Tories. How simplistic, how out of date. Evokes

:21:50. > :21:54.the ghost of Margaret Thatcher, is that because Margaret Thatcher

:21:55. > :22:06.polled more votes than Scotland back in the 19 83 than Ruth and your

:22:07. > :22:10.party managed at the last election? I'm grateful for the intervention. A

:22:11. > :22:15.vote Margaret Thatcher because the First Minister did so in her column

:22:16. > :22:20.for the daily record just the other day. For years we have put up with

:22:21. > :22:24.the SNP stating that they alone speak for Scotland, and with that

:22:25. > :22:29.comes the insinuation that those who don't support independence have

:22:30. > :22:33.somehow found wanting, as if in some way we don't love our country

:22:34. > :22:38.enough. The truth is no one can claim to speak exclusively for

:22:39. > :22:43.Scotland but we do speak for those who elected us. And on these benches

:22:44. > :22:50.we speak for those whose voices the SNP have swept aside in their quest

:22:51. > :22:54.for a further divisive for the site. We speak those who don't want the

:22:55. > :22:58.uncertainty of another referendum, we speak of the families,

:22:59. > :23:03.workplaces, the homes for whom 2014 was a time of unhappiness. We speak

:23:04. > :23:07.for the Scots who reject independence and who are dismayed

:23:08. > :23:12.when they find perpetrators questioned as a result, given that

:23:13. > :23:14.their hearts pound as hard as the most ardent nationalist when it

:23:15. > :23:19.comes to the love they have for their country. They are the silent

:23:20. > :23:23.majority of Scots who simply want to get on with life and whose voices

:23:24. > :23:29.not only deserve to be heard but must be heard. In conclusion, the

:23:30. > :23:34.First Minister says a referendum is necessary so we can decide about the

:23:35. > :23:38.kind of country we want to be. Let me save her some time and tell her

:23:39. > :23:42.what kind of country we want Scotland to beat. We want to

:23:43. > :23:47.Scotland that is united, not divides against itself. We want a Scotland

:23:48. > :23:50.that talks about the health of its people, we want a Scotland that

:23:51. > :23:54.talks about growing the economy, we want a Scotland that talks about the

:23:55. > :23:58.care of its elderly, we want to Scotland the talks about the dreams

:23:59. > :24:00.we have for our children and above all we want a Scotland that can have

:24:01. > :24:13.all of these conversations and act upon them free

:24:14. > :24:19.from the long shadows cast by the division and resentment that another

:24:20. > :24:24.referendum will bring. Democracy is the rule not just of the people but

:24:25. > :24:27.the common people, ordinary people, not the public school elites living

:24:28. > :24:35.in the Home Counties imposing their views on everyone else. It was

:24:36. > :24:39.Abraham Lincoln who spoke of government of the people, by the

:24:40. > :24:49.people and for the people. He spoke of a new nation conceived in liberty

:24:50. > :24:54.and dedication to us all being created equal. When this Parliament

:24:55. > :25:00.first opened after a break of 290 years, we will all recall the

:25:01. > :25:07.picture of Donald and people following him behind the Royal mile.

:25:08. > :25:12.The promise of a new way of governing, one that could indeed be

:25:13. > :25:18.the Government of, by and for the people. One genuinely represents the

:25:19. > :25:23.same people, one a very long way from the Government at Westminster

:25:24. > :25:26.with its ten new leader and her refusal to even consider a

:25:27. > :25:33.compromise of any kind. It's like wrestling with a brick wall. As

:25:34. > :25:37.officer, I'm not sure what Donald Joerg makes of us all now,

:25:38. > :25:41.undermining the democracy of this Parliament for some but I can hazard

:25:42. > :25:46.a guess what he thinks of Theresa May. As you are well aware,

:25:47. > :25:57.colleagues, this Westminster government was not elected by anyone

:25:58. > :26:03.in Scotland. One MP represent his constituents and doesn't have five

:26:04. > :26:07.jobs or incomes. Like the Chancellor, good at making money for

:26:08. > :26:11.himself but not very good at governing the public purse. That's

:26:12. > :26:15.democracy for you, we rejected the prospect of independence and voted

:26:16. > :26:18.to stay in the UK by a very small margin. A lot of people felt the

:26:19. > :26:24.future would be safer that way will stop with voted to stay in Europe by

:26:25. > :26:28.a margin of two to one, look at what we have now. People voted last time

:26:29. > :26:35.because they thought they were safe within the EU. Where are we now?

:26:36. > :26:38.Democracy, said another former US president, Franklin D Roosevelt,

:26:39. > :26:44.cannot succeed unless those who express the choice are prepared to

:26:45. > :26:55.choose wisely. The real safeguard of democracy therefore is education.

:26:56. > :27:01.Order the empty words about being a partnership, and a family of

:27:02. > :27:06.nations, have been proven to be so hollow. We are the voice of the

:27:07. > :27:12.people, because we are the government of the people. She has no

:27:13. > :27:16.mandate in this place. To protect and preserve our voice we must have

:27:17. > :27:22.the right to make the choices for ourselves. Residing officer, the

:27:23. > :27:25.Prime Minister has made her feelings clear, she does not want a

:27:26. > :27:33.referendum at all. Especially not one before her Brexit deal is

:27:34. > :27:37.secured. Yet it is her government's actions which have brought us to

:27:38. > :27:42.this point. Having to deal with an era most of us did not believe could

:27:43. > :27:49.happen, everybody in this place did not believe it could happen, Mrs May

:27:50. > :27:54.as embraced it with enthusiasm that impresses Nigel Farage. What does

:27:55. > :28:05.that say about it? That Scotland invited so clearly to remain is an

:28:06. > :28:15.example of informed opinion here. People in Scotland now know the vows

:28:16. > :28:20.before the referendum was a lie, what we got in 2014 was English

:28:21. > :28:26.votes for English laws. Not a family of nations. The Scottish voters must

:28:27. > :28:29.not be conned by another bout of outrageous impossible policies made

:28:30. > :28:37.by the campaign and the born-again Brexit supporters, that the land

:28:38. > :28:41.will be full of milk and honey. That the age of Empire and the Reg is on

:28:42. > :28:53.its way back. Our electorate must be given the chance to choose:

:28:54. > :28:56.'sfuture. We must never forget our responsibilities to bring genuine,

:28:57. > :29:00.clear and accurate information. There will be no fake news like some

:29:01. > :29:13.of the rubbish we have heard from this government. We must level with

:29:14. > :29:18.our voters. Of course I will. I have been biding my time here. We have

:29:19. > :29:27.talked a lot about respect, and factual information. We'll Christina

:29:28. > :29:40.McKelvie keep up a record of tweeting the most. It is really not

:29:41. > :29:44.worth responding. It is well known why she and her abusers are blocked

:29:45. > :29:52.on Twitter. We felt the brittle squeezing of our budget, and a

:29:53. > :29:57.vicious assault on Social Security, that these guys seem to think is OK.

:29:58. > :30:01.We know that the price of oil has fallen, we will see much worse with

:30:02. > :30:08.tariffs of up to 40% introduced under WTO regulations. Describing

:30:09. > :30:15.members of this chamber's abuses, making accusations such as we heard,

:30:16. > :30:20.surely that cannot be in order? If you wish to make a complaint, Mr

:30:21. > :30:25.Johnson, I think you should too. Christina McKelvie. I think the

:30:26. > :30:32.member should check the record, I did not refer to any individual

:30:33. > :30:36.member, but there is a cohort. We are already starting to see prices

:30:37. > :30:44.rise. The falling pound. Look at interest rates. For goodness sake.

:30:45. > :30:48.We all know it is under sceptical for the code of conduct in this

:30:49. > :30:54.chamber for an individual MSP to call out another individual MSP like

:30:55. > :31:01.that, just repeating the charge. She actually said there is a cohort

:31:02. > :31:08.here, pointing to the Labour members, that is simply not

:31:09. > :31:13.acceptable. I have listened to what has been said, can I say, in the

:31:14. > :31:19.heated debate, members should treat each other respectfully. Where there

:31:20. > :31:24.are strong views. The official record will be checked, we will have

:31:25. > :31:28.a look at it, and revert back. You will have two wind up in. Thank you

:31:29. > :31:33.very much presiding officer. The first choices we need to make. For

:31:34. > :31:45.me, presiding Officer, if the joys is

:31:46. > :31:51.bombs not bairns, I choose Tim free-macro. I choose to treat women

:31:52. > :31:56.and children of respect. If the choice is a withdrawal of the

:31:57. > :32:00.European Human Rights Act, I choose the European Human Rights Act. I

:32:01. > :32:12.choose sanctity. I choose for Scotland. Thank you, presiding

:32:13. > :32:16.officer. Given those remarks, it is with a heavy heart we come to this

:32:17. > :32:22.debate yet again. I know that is true for all sides of this debate.

:32:23. > :32:26.Those of us who voted no in 2014 certainly did not want to have this

:32:27. > :32:32.debate again, as we are promised it would be once in a generation. I

:32:33. > :32:36.expect from the conversations I've had with people who voted yes last

:32:37. > :32:42.time that they neither did not expect to be torpedoed back into

:32:43. > :32:46.this binary question so soon. Scottish Labour will vote no to a

:32:47. > :32:50.section 30 order for a second referendum simply because we do not

:32:51. > :32:55.think it is good for Scotland. The SNP have argued there has been a

:32:56. > :32:58.material change of circumstances as set out in the manifesto with the

:32:59. > :33:06.Brexit vote, giving them the authority to call for another vote.

:33:07. > :33:11.I agree, although breaks it contains possibilities, as every crisis does,

:33:12. > :33:14.it is overall a shambles. It was a foolish and irresponsible Prime

:33:15. > :33:21.Minister that visited the European referendum on us in the first place.

:33:22. > :33:28.The case we made on EU membership, and Scottish membership, in 2014

:33:29. > :33:34.remains unaltered. The independent Scotland would find it very

:33:35. > :33:44.difficult to become an independent member of the European Union. I fail

:33:45. > :33:49.to see how it is in Spain or Belgian's interests, with their own

:33:50. > :33:52.secessionist movements, to not grant Scotland membership. I am happy to

:33:53. > :34:06.take intervention. The economics of the situation do not add up. I much

:34:07. > :34:10.appreciate. Is this project fear, or Project three? I don't quite

:34:11. > :34:14.understand intervention. I will continue. The economics of the

:34:15. > :34:19.situation do not add up. Scotland would struggle to meet the

:34:20. > :34:23.convergence criteria with a ?15 billion deficit. The European

:34:24. > :34:32.Commission said quite clearly last week Scotland would be required to

:34:33. > :34:36.apply as an accession state. We saw the TV interviews, even SNP MPs

:34:37. > :34:42.don't understand their own case for this membership of the EU. The idea

:34:43. > :34:47.mooted by some nationalists, that Scotland would assume the UK's

:34:48. > :34:52.membership is at best naive, but really not living in the same

:34:53. > :34:56.political world. The thing that most upsets and worries me about the

:34:57. > :35:04.prospect of a second referendum is the focus it would divert from

:35:05. > :35:09.domestic issues. During the last referendum, he debated Dundee

:35:10. > :35:12.University, I said that Scotland's education system used to be the best

:35:13. > :35:18.in the world. But we could no longer make that claim. Shona Robinson

:35:19. > :35:24.dismissed this assertion categorically. And accused me of the

:35:25. > :35:32.same thing she did every time I raised an issue of talking Scotland

:35:33. > :35:37.down. Wind forward three years, it seems I was not far off the mark. We

:35:38. > :35:44.find our First Minister proclaiming education is now the priority of our

:35:45. > :35:46.government. As the statistics roll in, making extremely worrying

:35:47. > :35:55.reading for every parent in Scotland. Less than half of primary

:35:56. > :36:02.seven children in Dundee reach expected numeracy standards. Less

:36:03. > :36:10.than half. This is in the face of continuing SNP cuts. The SNP have

:36:11. > :36:16.taken nearly ?900 per primary school pupil, John Swinney come out of

:36:17. > :36:25.Dundee schools. We were right, and nobody will tell me other wise. This

:36:26. > :36:37.cabin's priority was diverted away from people's priorities. It seems

:36:38. > :36:44.that it's happening again. I am very grateful for taking the

:36:45. > :36:48.intervention. I don't know if you were present when I was speaking,

:36:49. > :36:53.that with the member acknowledged there has already been implications

:36:54. > :36:56.for education, as regards university applications for students, and

:36:57. > :37:01.resets already, as a result of the decision on Brexit. Which is not

:37:02. > :37:05.even progressed. Yes I would agree with the member. I said in my

:37:06. > :37:12.opening remarks, I think the Brexit situation is a shambles. The EU

:37:13. > :37:15.position is not clear. Can I add, presiding officer, the essential

:37:16. > :37:24.work we're doing on the Public audit committee, scrutinising it, will not

:37:25. > :37:29.gather attention as the friend and fever gathers again. Friends who

:37:30. > :37:33.voted yes last time, and we'll give again tell me Scotland's economy

:37:34. > :37:38.needs radical action, and we need to do things differently. I do not

:37:39. > :37:42.disagree. The inequality we see in other communities, by

:37:43. > :37:47.post-industrialisation and automation is the biggest question

:37:48. > :37:51.for all progressive people and our politics. Not generically Scotland.

:37:52. > :37:57.And I believe will be made worse, not better by a second vote. 18

:37:58. > :38:00.months ago, the deputy editor of the Toronto Globe and mail came to

:38:01. > :38:07.Edinburgh to talk about referendums in Qu bec. He told a story that we

:38:08. > :38:11.would be foolish to ignore. Before the first referendum on Qu bec

:38:12. > :38:16.leaving Canada, he said Montr al and Qu bec was poised on the brink of

:38:17. > :38:20.huge economic success. As a result of the uncertainty caused by the

:38:21. > :38:25.referendum, business decided to go elsewhere to Toronto. The second

:38:26. > :38:29.referendum compounded matters. Qu bec's economy has never recovered

:38:30. > :38:36.from the uncertain environment for business and industry that the

:38:37. > :38:40.succession questions have caused. To that end, presiding officer I ask

:38:41. > :38:44.the SNP today, if this referendum is held, and people vote no again, will

:38:45. > :38:52.be SNP rule out a third referendum, because we see the damage this

:38:53. > :38:57.question can do? From now on, everyone will have to keep to under

:38:58. > :39:04.six minutes, or people will not get any clear add-ons. Not for the first

:39:05. > :39:12.time I want to speak about my journey... We may want to check the

:39:13. > :39:20.official record, both Christina McKelvie and Richard Lyle got well

:39:21. > :39:24.over seven minutes. If that J is to be applied to some members, it

:39:25. > :39:30.should be applied to all of us. That is not a point of order, timing the

:39:31. > :39:31.debates is agreed by the parliament, running the debates is the

:39:32. > :39:39.responsibility of the presiding officer. I want to talk about my

:39:40. > :39:49.journey... Point of order, Richard Lyle. I have not spoken in this

:39:50. > :39:55.debate. Can you have a ruling? Thank you Mr Lyle for that point of

:39:56. > :40:01.clarification, not a point of order. I would like to speak about my

:40:02. > :40:05.journey to the cause of Scottish independence. Going up in industrial

:40:06. > :40:11.Central Scotland, the granddaughter of an Irish steelworker, who came

:40:12. > :40:19.here in the 1920s, who worked in the mill in Motherwell at the very mill

:40:20. > :40:25.saved by this last year, with the Liberty Steel buyer. I grew up where

:40:26. > :40:32.the Labour Party values were forged in the lecture. Keir Hardie's home

:40:33. > :40:36.county. When I was a teenager. I watched on the news, as miners

:40:37. > :40:40.picketed outside Raven Street, and our police were used as a tool of

:40:41. > :40:42.the Tory government committee systematically destroying my

:40:43. > :40:49.community. Fitting worker against worker. Demonising, no, I will not.

:40:50. > :41:05.I am not taking interventions. Demonising our police force. The

:41:06. > :41:09.police were there to protect us. The community and economy and industry

:41:10. > :41:13.was destroyed by the Tories was and that is why I will never ever trust

:41:14. > :41:24.the Tories to have the interests of Motherwell Wishaw, or Scotland at

:41:25. > :41:28.the heart of anything they do. It was that they convince me that

:41:29. > :41:32.Scotland as an independent nation could have a steel industry, and in

:41:33. > :41:37.the 30 years intervening nothing has changed my mind. Whether that is the

:41:38. > :41:44.Iraq war, Tory austerity. Because we are here again. Tory government bent

:41:45. > :41:45.on inflicting economic and social chaos of a hard practice on

:41:46. > :41:57.Scotland. To my Labour colleagues, as they

:41:58. > :42:02.examine the shambles of their party down south are they content to leave

:42:03. > :42:06.Scotland to the vagaries of the Tory government? A Tory government that

:42:07. > :42:16.use bothering to demonise and blame asylum seekers for their failures?

:42:17. > :42:20.Failing to give European citizens guarantees about their future now

:42:21. > :42:27.and following Brexit, or a Tory government deploying othering over

:42:28. > :42:34.their own citizens as they demonise the poor, the disabled and the sick.

:42:35. > :42:44.Subjecting disabled people to demeaning assessments, and they have

:42:45. > :42:50.the cheek to say we are divisive when othering is at the heart of

:42:51. > :42:55.their policies. And the Labour Party are content to sit back and allow

:42:56. > :43:00.this to be visited on Scotland. They know federalism, like the Liberal

:43:01. > :43:10.Democrats, federalism is unlikely to happen because they will not be in a

:43:11. > :43:19.position to deliver it, but the vagaries to the Tory government in

:43:20. > :43:23.the meantime. The Lib Dems want choice for the UK but not for

:43:24. > :43:27.Scotland and they talk about the possibilities, possibilities of this

:43:28. > :43:34.and that. What they should understand is that with

:43:35. > :43:42.possibilities come probabilities and likely outcomes. This is the future

:43:43. > :43:46.of our country. It is not some existential version of Schr dinger

:43:47. > :43:56.'s cat where all things are possible until they are observed. The

:43:57. > :44:01.Scottish people are observing, the Brexit box is open, the cat is about

:44:02. > :44:05.to eat the poison, and the way for it to avoid the inevitable is just

:44:06. > :44:19.to get out the box. It really is that simple.

:44:20. > :44:25.Thank you. First Minister is there to bring the whole country together

:44:26. > :44:30.but in Nicola Sturgeon we have a First Minister who knows only one

:44:31. > :44:35.way to govern and that is to hit once got against another, the

:44:36. > :44:40.politics of grievance and division. I don't think that works for our

:44:41. > :44:45.country any longer. Scotland is too vast and complex to be governed in

:44:46. > :44:50.some way. After what has been a hugely disruptive period in Scottish

:44:51. > :44:55.and British politics, last week we saw the true calculated response to

:44:56. > :44:59.the UK leaving the EU from this First Minister. At the time when we

:45:00. > :45:03.need politicians from across this country to come together and work

:45:04. > :45:08.together, we had a First Minister looking to exploit an already

:45:09. > :45:13.difficult and complex situation. Just look at how she responded to

:45:14. > :45:18.the decision by voters across the UK to leave the EU, just three hours

:45:19. > :45:24.after the result was declared dead the First Minister rise to the offer

:45:25. > :45:28.she holds to look to call for unity and keep calm head? Did she missed

:45:29. > :45:35.to enter a constructive relationship with the Prime Minister to look to

:45:36. > :45:39.the opportunities our country has in the future? No, she looked to

:45:40. > :45:44.exploit anxiety, to try to turn it into a grievance and more division,

:45:45. > :45:48.to try to take us back to the divisions of 2014. And I think the

:45:49. > :45:52.events of the last week have shown the people of Scotland exactly the

:45:53. > :45:56.sort of First Minister Nicola Sturgeon wants to be, and one who is

:45:57. > :46:00.not interested in finding solutions but the First Minister who wants to

:46:01. > :46:06.exploit the issues for political gain. Just like the First Minister,

:46:07. > :46:10.I voted Remain last June but I'm also a Democrat and this is what

:46:11. > :46:16.democracy is all about, how we put our arguments to the people and the

:46:17. > :46:21.manner by which we live their decisions. I don't doubt Scotland on

:46:22. > :46:26.the UK face impressive challenges as we work to bring a future for our

:46:27. > :46:30.countries outside the European Union but we should be working to help

:46:31. > :46:35.build the strong trading links with need with every European country.

:46:36. > :46:40.Our great and perhaps unique strength as the UK is the fact that

:46:41. > :46:44.we are strong the country, not in spite of our differences but because

:46:45. > :46:49.of our differences. The grievance and division which the SNP wants to

:46:50. > :46:53.return our country to is not the Scotland I believe in, it's not the

:46:54. > :46:57.type of society believe the majority of people in Scotland, often the

:46:58. > :47:02.silent majority of people in our country, wants to live in. In recent

:47:03. > :47:05.weeks I've met hundreds of SNP voters who are growing tired of the

:47:06. > :47:14.political games of this Government and First Minister. Many of our

:47:15. > :47:19.fellow Scots who voted SNP in the past are beginning to cast a wary

:47:20. > :47:23.eye over this Government. And what about the 40% of SNP voters who

:47:24. > :47:28.voted to leave the European Union, how must they feel to the Government

:47:29. > :47:37.and First Minister not listening to them? I listen to what I believe was

:47:38. > :47:45.the best speeches today from Bruce Crawford, sadly others undermined

:47:46. > :47:52.what he was trying to say in their contributions, but I want to see SNP

:47:53. > :47:54.voters are good people who want better from their country on the

:47:55. > :48:02.Government, good people who thought they were sending MSPs to be strong

:48:03. > :48:05.prices for their communities but got nothing in return but Nicola

:48:06. > :48:11.Sturgeon's voice in their community. Last week demonstrated the fact that

:48:12. > :48:14.our First Minister has stopped being a First Minister for all of Scotland

:48:15. > :48:18.and we should all regret that but as a country we need to move forward

:48:19. > :48:22.from the divisions of the past. The UK has always worked as a family of

:48:23. > :48:28.nations to pull together when we face tough times. That's just how

:48:29. > :48:33.the UK works and that is exactly what people across Scotland are

:48:34. > :48:37.calling on politicians across this chamber to do. Because our UK at its

:48:38. > :48:40.very heart is a story of friendship and hope during difficult times, the

:48:41. > :48:47.bonds which bind our countries together. We learn from each other.

:48:48. > :48:50.I believe there is a longing and a need for real principled leadership

:48:51. > :48:57.in Scotland today, leadership that will bring our country together. A

:48:58. > :49:03.longing for us to work together as Parliament to make a success of the

:49:04. > :49:08.decision made by voters across the UK. And to build the most

:49:09. > :49:12.entrepreneurial, competitive and successful country in the world. If

:49:13. > :49:18.we are going to achieve that goal, we need to unite as a country, not

:49:19. > :49:23.be divided even further. Now is the very time Scotland needs unity.

:49:24. > :49:27.Finally, to conclude, on behalf of the voters I represent across the

:49:28. > :49:32.Lothian region and want to give this message to the First Minister today

:49:33. > :49:35.- we might not agree on everything in this Parliament, in fact we might

:49:36. > :49:40.disagree on a great number of things but I know we can agree on this.

:49:41. > :49:45.Grievance, division and negativity can not be the political lifeblood

:49:46. > :49:50.of this country. Scotland voted to remain in the UK in 2014, it is time

:49:51. > :50:04.the Scottish Government started to listen to the people of Scotland.

:50:05. > :50:09.Stuart Stevenson. It has fondly been an interesting exercise in democracy

:50:10. > :50:14.listening to colleagues across the chamber. There are some speeches I

:50:15. > :50:20.will read with great care when the official report is published. I will

:50:21. > :50:25.read Alec Rowling's contributions because of the quality of the

:50:26. > :50:30.argument he deployed in support of his conclusions. I will read Bruce

:50:31. > :50:38.Crawford's speech began because of the moderation of his expression and

:50:39. > :50:42.the felicitations of his words. Ivan McKee had an interesting approach,

:50:43. > :50:47.and Adam Tomkins, not a man I have often found myself agreeing with in

:50:48. > :50:58.conclusion, at least have the decency to argue a case where step a

:50:59. > :51:01.was followed by step the and step C. I hope he will read a number of

:51:02. > :51:09.speeches in this Parliament as I will do. Jenny Mara talked about how

:51:10. > :51:14.difficult it is to get into the EU. One of the things about the EU which

:51:15. > :51:20.is interesting is how flexible it is. It only took three months for

:51:21. > :51:24.East Germany to get into the EU curiously enough, and for my

:51:25. > :51:29.constituents who have a particular hatred, entirely justified and

:51:30. > :51:36.sustained by the SNP who have been opposed to the Common fisheries

:51:37. > :51:41.policy from 1975 to the present day, there is a curious exception in the

:51:42. > :51:45.EU. There's a part of the EU that a full member of the EU that is not in

:51:46. > :51:52.the common fisheries policy even though it is a coastal states, that

:51:53. > :51:56.is Gibraltar. There are, in democratic societies and

:51:57. > :52:02.institutions, the capability of being flexible. I want to talk a

:52:03. > :52:09.little bit about the United Kingdom, and why the United Kingdom may now

:52:10. > :52:12.be past the point of recovery. One of the things those who voted to

:52:13. > :52:17.leave in the recent referendum should perhaps take heart from, that

:52:18. > :52:21.under the present rules for admission to the EU, the United

:52:22. > :52:31.Kingdom could not be readmitted. The reason for that is article two which

:52:32. > :52:35.requires respect for democracy stability of institutions,

:52:36. > :52:37.guaranteeing democracy. Very specifically, functional democratic

:52:38. > :52:42.governance requires that all citizens of the country should be

:52:43. > :52:46.able to participate on equal basis in the political decision-making at

:52:47. > :52:52.every single governing level. The majority of national politicians are

:52:53. > :53:02.unelected, not dismissible, and therefore the UK in European terms

:53:03. > :53:06.is not a democracy. So that is hard for those who voted to leave. When

:53:07. > :53:13.we look at the processes of Westminster, my colleague has

:53:14. > :53:18.discovered it is impossible to oppose a negative instrument, in

:53:19. > :53:25.this case penalising those with a third child requiring that it be

:53:26. > :53:30.shown to be by rape, that's not the way the modern progressive democracy

:53:31. > :53:36.should work. I want to say a few words about fishing because without

:53:37. > :53:40.doubt, those who had an interest in fishing with a most antipathetic to

:53:41. > :53:46.the European project, and with good reason. When I came here in 2001 my

:53:47. > :53:52.first speech was in the common fisheries policy at a time when we

:53:53. > :53:56.were savaging our fleet at European behest while simultaneously the EU

:53:57. > :54:02.was funding the building of new boat in Spain. Those boats were to fish

:54:03. > :54:07.in our waters, so if we get anything out of where we are today, it is an

:54:08. > :54:15.opportunity to reset the way in which we have access to our European

:54:16. > :54:18.waters... Our own national waters. In my parliamentary constituency,

:54:19. > :54:28.the four candidates who stood in last year's collection were all

:54:29. > :54:31.Remainers but we share a duty towards our constituents. On the

:54:32. > :54:41.subject of independence it's worth saying it's not a particularly

:54:42. > :54:50.unusual activity. If it is brief. Can I simply ask, is it Mr

:54:51. > :54:57.Stevenson's intention to ask the constituency to vote to leave the UK

:54:58. > :55:10.in order to rejoin the union. We have shown flexibility and I direct

:55:11. > :55:13.them to section 127. Which reads in our compromise we are clear that

:55:14. > :55:19.under this option we would not remain within the common fisheries

:55:20. > :55:26.policy. We are being flexible and offering compromise. What the others

:55:27. > :55:30.do the same thing? Let's just say a little bit about where the UK and

:55:31. > :55:37.Scotland can go from where we are because at the moment there is only

:55:38. > :55:40.one word, it is a girdle. In crises times, the UK has been bold enough

:55:41. > :55:44.to bring everybody into the room in an attempt to solve the problem, and

:55:45. > :55:48.in fishing I return to the very simple thing that the position of

:55:49. > :55:54.fishing would be protected, the argument would be augmented, and

:55:55. > :55:58.taken forward if the Scottish fishing minister leads the way in

:55:59. > :56:03.the debates with the EU. I urge the UK to listen to that again, it takes

:56:04. > :56:07.the burden off their shoulders, gives them the time to do other

:56:08. > :56:09.things, would help us make sure we get the outcome we require for our

:56:10. > :56:20.fishermen. We have had a heated and

:56:21. > :56:26.argumentative debate but there is one absolute clarity, the SNP

:56:27. > :56:31.prospectus for a second independence referendum is based on flawed

:56:32. > :56:35.assumptions and confused logic. They claim it is based on Saturday and

:56:36. > :56:41.choice but in reality independence can only lead to more risk and less

:56:42. > :56:45.clarity. As evidenced by the previous speaker talking in confused

:56:46. > :56:51.terms about the EU and whether or not we would even join the EU.

:56:52. > :56:56.Perhaps most concerning is that they are wilfully ignoring what the

:56:57. > :57:00.Scottish people want, to lead constitutional uncertainty behind

:57:01. > :57:05.them. Last week we had a constructive debate from the

:57:06. > :57:17.committee of tourism and Europe discussing the uncertainties of

:57:18. > :57:19.Brexit. We discussed the benefits of the cooperation we had through

:57:20. > :57:25.European organisations and institutions and their implications

:57:26. > :57:32.of Brexit in economic cost not least jobs. The reality is, leaving the

:57:33. > :57:38.UK, the single market we have enjoyed for so long is over four

:57:39. > :57:45.times greater significance in trade. Leaving the UK faces the prospect of

:57:46. > :57:54.Scotland having to trade with the rest of these islands on WTO rules.

:57:55. > :57:59.What is more, the co-operation, which even the White Paper had baked

:58:00. > :58:04.into it, would be brought into doubt because of the dissimilarity between

:58:05. > :58:14.EU and UK status. Independence did not ease those risks -- does not. It

:58:15. > :58:17.exacerbates them. In reality we have not one argument from the benches

:58:18. > :58:35.over there about how those risks would be mitigated or ameliorated.

:58:36. > :58:41.Patrick Ah Van. -- Patrick Harvie. Surely it follows that to defer a

:58:42. > :58:50.decision about whether the voters of Scotland choose to stay on the path

:58:51. > :58:57.until after 2019 extends until 20 -- extends uncertainty rather than

:58:58. > :59:00.diminish it. There are no set of circumstances in which Scotland will

:59:01. > :59:06.remain continuously a member of the EU. Brexit means Scotland is coming

:59:07. > :59:10.out of the EU. We are discussing whether or not it will have a

:59:11. > :59:19.differential status to the rest of the UK. The consequences on trade

:59:20. > :59:25.and of the economy and jobs that are dire and that is the consequences of

:59:26. > :59:28.independence. The reality is the situation this time is more

:59:29. > :59:34.complicated and more risky than last time. Economic case is less sure

:59:35. > :59:39.because of the collapse in oil and the international context far less

:59:40. > :59:44.certain. This should not surprise us because this is another excuse from

:59:45. > :59:47.the party that only believes in one thing, independence, because motion

:59:48. > :59:52.after motion we have had in this place, vote after vote, they have

:59:53. > :59:59.wilfully ignored, but this is apparently there's toric one. Time

:00:00. > :00:02.after time it was acknowledging our options in the letter triggering

:00:03. > :00:16.article 50 except the First Minister shot her bolt before the letter was

:00:17. > :00:21.even sent. This is an excuse. The excuses over whether a generation

:00:22. > :00:24.was meant or what it even means. We do not even have a commitment from

:00:25. > :00:31.the Scottish Government that they would even apply for European Union

:00:32. > :00:35.membership. We do not know. The reality is this is a party that

:00:36. > :00:38.spent the last 2.5 years looking for another excuse for another

:00:39. > :00:44.independence referendum. I think there could be no more sure key to

:00:45. > :00:50.that being the case from the rhetoric from these benches. Despite

:00:51. > :00:56.some of the police for a dignified debate we have had insult after

:00:57. > :01:04.insults and then we have had the grandiose rhetoric talking about

:01:05. > :01:08.lies of the world and that Scottish stories and historians of the

:01:09. > :01:14.future, but no one person has answered this, is it a good idea? Is

:01:15. > :01:19.it worth doing? You have not been making that case in your speeches

:01:20. > :01:23.and it is a little bit late. The reality is we are two years on from

:01:24. > :01:28.the last independence referendum and we have no new ideas, just

:01:29. > :01:39.stuttering from John Cherry who cannot begin to answer questions on

:01:40. > :01:42.currency. And talking about industrial decline but not one word

:01:43. > :01:51.on how to tackle the deficit or ?15 billion of cuts. What would be the

:01:52. > :02:01.impact of those cuts and Scottish industry? The reality is this, the

:02:02. > :02:07.SNP argument on the EU is flawed their argument on certainty and

:02:08. > :02:16.there are statements are unclear and they cannot be clear where they

:02:17. > :02:18.stand on the EU. Labour stands opposed to the independence

:02:19. > :02:23.referendum because it distracts from the reality of the issues we need to

:02:24. > :02:25.deal with such as industry, education, and we stand against

:02:26. > :02:30.independence referendum because quite simply it increases risks and

:02:31. > :02:40.uncertainties and will only be counted in the costs of jobs to

:02:41. > :02:44.Scotland. In regards to points of order is earlier, I have read the

:02:45. > :02:47.official report and this is clearly a matter between members that they

:02:48. > :02:52.may wish to discuss between themselves but I would reiterate

:02:53. > :02:57.from the point of view your passions are running high and I remind all

:02:58. > :03:07.members to treat each other with respect. James Dornan, to be

:03:08. > :03:11.followed by Brian Whittle. I shall try to be as respectful as I can in

:03:12. > :03:16.such an important debate. Despite best efforts of the First Minister

:03:17. > :03:23.find ourselves in the process of having another referendum. Support

:03:24. > :03:30.for US last time climbed from 27 to 45 cents only because he realised

:03:31. > :03:38.that a Tory government was looking increasingly likely. I want to

:03:39. > :03:46.discuss two things. The importance of the decision we make to future

:03:47. > :03:50.generations. When people my age go to vote for or against

:03:51. > :03:58.self-determination for Scotland, they must consider and the boat's

:03:59. > :04:03.impact on future generations and what kind of legacy they want to

:04:04. > :04:07.leave. A future where our children get to work, study and live in

:04:08. > :04:12.Europe or gets to make their own choices, including mistakes which

:04:13. > :04:18.they will on totally make -- undoubtedly make, or being ruled by

:04:19. > :04:23.government don't even care enough to take children from zones. Kezia

:04:24. > :04:28.Dugdale said she hates what the Tories are doing to Britain and yet

:04:29. > :04:42.the end results are that she will make sure the Tories will continue.

:04:43. > :04:47.Any deficit the Scottish Government may well end up with when we become

:04:48. > :04:51.independent will be a deficit that was runner up under this union that

:04:52. > :05:00.you seem to be so proud to be a member of. While Scottish Labour

:05:01. > :05:03.seem to be content, forever siding with the Tories, at Westminster we

:05:04. > :05:06.have Jeremy Corbyn and colleagues saying they would allow a referendum

:05:07. > :05:10.because even they understand the will of the Scottish people is to be

:05:11. > :05:17.respected, but with the Labour Party in such disarray I am not being my

:05:18. > :05:21.breath. Kezia Dugdale and Alec Crowley said last year they were

:05:22. > :05:26.supportive of the Scottish Government's efforts to maintain a

:05:27. > :05:32.relationship with the EU. Anna Sarwar said he wanted some truth

:05:33. > :05:38.earlier. Here is some. For poverty in the NHS I can't see how Kezia

:05:39. > :05:42.Dugdale can say Scotland independence would be worse than the

:05:43. > :05:54.outcome of the predicted Tory government to 2030 and beyond.

:05:55. > :05:57.Scottish Labour would rather it appears stay in an unholy alliance

:05:58. > :06:02.with the Tories then do what is right that the people of Scotland. I

:06:03. > :06:06.thought the town of Alec Crowley's speech was great and I agreed with a

:06:07. > :06:11.lot of what he said but I can't see can come to the conclusion that

:06:12. > :06:16.under Westminster we are going to get a good deal for Scotland. A

:06:17. > :06:20.Westminster government refused to speak to the First Minister or

:06:21. > :06:24.listen to anything she was saying in the run-up to article 50 being

:06:25. > :06:29.announced. It is a government that refuses to be taking into

:06:30. > :06:35.consideration anything the devolved nations have done. Why would you

:06:36. > :06:38.think that if we say no tomorrow night they will start to listen to

:06:39. > :06:46.us and think about the other nations of the UK? It is not going to

:06:47. > :06:51.happen. I comment to the party are left. You don't get a referendum for

:06:52. > :06:57.free, you have to earn it. If the Greens and the SNP get over the line

:06:58. > :07:02.then they will have a referendum and that is what democracy is about.

:07:03. > :07:09.That was retained its. What has changed? Nothing. Except for the

:07:10. > :07:14.fact that Ruth sees she might have a future elsewhere if things go badly

:07:15. > :07:18.here. When the Prime Minister talks about plain politics she should

:07:19. > :07:38.remember it was her predecessor who called the Leave referendum to

:07:39. > :07:43.appease Ukip. Theresa May knew that it would be fatal for the union with

:07:44. > :07:49.Scotland. If they knew that it would be catastrophic for the union then

:07:50. > :07:53.it is no wonder that Scotland is flabbergasted at the this regard we

:07:54. > :07:58.seem to be held in May it comes to negotiations. The Scottish

:07:59. > :08:03.Government made it clear they will be willing to work together and

:08:04. > :08:11.engage but they have been snubbed. The devolved administrations found

:08:12. > :08:17.out the date for article 50 from the BBC. How often do we hear the phrase

:08:18. > :08:24.partnership of equals but how often is it not the case? It is not for

:08:25. > :08:28.me, the SNP, the Tories or any other party to decide the future of

:08:29. > :08:32.Scotland. While the UK faces uncertainty and economic

:08:33. > :08:37.instability, it is for the people of Scotland to decide. I will be voting

:08:38. > :08:41.for independence if we are given a choice because I believe this debate

:08:42. > :08:45.is about what kind of Scotland we want to be but I firmly believe no

:08:46. > :08:48.matter how you vote that this choice belongs to the people of Scotland

:08:49. > :09:00.and their future should be decided by them and not made for them. Brian

:09:01. > :09:04.Whittle, followed by Neil Findlay. For once I take no pleasure in

:09:05. > :09:11.taking part in a debate in this chamber. Thanks to the kingmaker and

:09:12. > :09:13.his sidekicks with their biodegrade in manifesto commitments apparently

:09:14. > :09:19.already in the pockets of the outcome of this debate may already

:09:20. > :09:22.be decided but I wanted to speak up the majority of Scots who are sick

:09:23. > :09:24.and tired of this government continually putting their of session

:09:25. > :09:31.header back to the governing Scotland. Ever sidestepping their

:09:32. > :09:36.actual responsibilities, a government of smoke and mirrors.

:09:37. > :09:39.This week we are having two days of debate on this issue because after

:09:40. > :09:48.two years and the largest democratic vote in Scottish history, apparently

:09:49. > :09:52.we need further debate. This is an illusion, sound and fury signifying

:09:53. > :09:55.nothing and nothing is excelling what is being achieved today,

:09:56. > :10:00.nothing to tackle preventable health, nothing to support the NHS,

:10:01. > :10:04.improve education for the next generation, support farmers still

:10:05. > :10:08.waiting for farm payments, address poor economic performance, nothing

:10:09. > :10:12.to justify Scotland having the highest taxed part of the UK.

:10:13. > :10:15.Nothing to discuss issues of genuine importance to the people of

:10:16. > :10:21.Scotland. The Scottish Government may have given their motion the

:10:22. > :10:28.title Scotland's choice but this is not the debate the majority of Scots

:10:29. > :10:33.would choose. Country to the latest constitutional myth dreamt up by the

:10:34. > :10:44.SNP, Scotland does not face a choice between independence and Brexit. It

:10:45. > :10:50.faces a choice of the result of the Democratic referendum and being

:10:51. > :10:53.dragged away... I didn't vote for independence and didn't vote for

:10:54. > :11:01.Brexit and yet somehow the First Minister appeals she has the right

:11:02. > :11:05.to take my Remain vote and the votes of Scottish people as a signal to

:11:06. > :11:12.hold another referendum. I'm certain my ballot didn't say, "Remain and if

:11:13. > :11:21.I lose I'm happy for the Scottish Government to use my vote to... )

:11:22. > :11:26.and they seem to live in a world where things not going their way is

:11:27. > :11:30.an excuse for a referendum. It is one thing to be a sore loser but

:11:31. > :11:39.another to twist things to suit your narrative. There may have been many

:11:40. > :11:43.more Scots engaged in politics due to the referendum but it was the

:11:44. > :11:49.politics of division and this is what the SNP continues to give and

:11:50. > :11:53.cultivate for it own ends. I remember watching the results as

:11:54. > :11:56.they came in. I was relieved when I realised the union would remain

:11:57. > :12:04.intact but my overwhelming feeling was one of sadness. My only

:12:05. > :12:12.conversation with Jim Murphy was when he put his hand out and

:12:13. > :12:19.reclaimed weave on -- we have won. I remember thinking what have we won?

:12:20. > :12:25.My countries torn into. The SNP and their cohorts were comprehensively

:12:26. > :12:29.defeated but I would suggest that nobody won. How can anyone

:12:30. > :12:35.realistically claim victory against a backdrop of such use division and

:12:36. > :12:42.discard but regrettably here we are again. When it comes to the SNP

:12:43. > :12:46.nothing else matters. Independence no matter what it costs Scotland and

:12:47. > :12:50.the Scottish people. They will use any excuse, real or invented to

:12:51. > :12:55.leveraged their obsession. How could the Scottish Government justified

:12:56. > :13:00.returning to this issue so quickly? It was supposed to be once in a

:13:01. > :13:01.generation and was allowed to lie for the life span of an average

:13:02. > :13:11.goldfish. I would like to suggest we insert a

:13:12. > :13:15.new definition of generation in the dictionary, however long it takes

:13:16. > :13:20.Alex Salmond to forget he made a promise. I entered this place less

:13:21. > :13:24.than a year ago with the hope that I would have the opportunity to

:13:25. > :13:28.discuss economy, education and health, to bring the different ideas

:13:29. > :13:31.through constructive dialogue to this chamber and to help to shape a

:13:32. > :13:36.better and brighter future for Scotland. I very quickly came to

:13:37. > :13:39.appreciate the huge weaknesses of this SNP government. They are laid

:13:40. > :13:43.bare for all to see in every debate and with every question put to them

:13:44. > :13:51.that remains unanswered. This chamber hosts a never-ending game of

:13:52. > :13:55.SNB bingo. Westminster, Brexit, Tory austerity, no matter what the

:13:56. > :13:58.question, their rhetoric remains the same, always designed to cultivate

:13:59. > :14:02.division in Scotland and between Scotland and the rest of the UK, to

:14:03. > :14:07.stoke up resentment. Independence Day matter what it costs my country.

:14:08. > :14:12.The SNP have nothing else do but, nothing of substance and no original

:14:13. > :14:18.thought. A philosopher said a fanatic is one who read dumps his

:14:19. > :14:23.effort. The First Minister has forgotten her aim. Whatever was said

:14:24. > :14:25.in the effort the's last manifesto about health and education and

:14:26. > :14:29.dealing with the issues of real porters to the people of Scotland

:14:30. > :14:32.was all hastily thrown together to disguise the fact they are a party

:14:33. > :14:42.with no aims for Scotland beyond independence. Just one second,

:14:43. > :14:48.please let this be a point of order, not an interruption described as a

:14:49. > :14:52.point of order. Thank you presiding officer. The member just called the

:14:53. > :14:56.First Minister a fanatic, I regard that as against the standing orders

:14:57. > :15:01.of the Parliament and I wondered if he would give an opinion on that. I

:15:02. > :15:05.don't think that is what he described the First Minister as. You

:15:06. > :15:10.are correct, that is not what I said. The SNP may want to talk about

:15:11. > :15:14.how a second referendum may may not work so that people begin to think

:15:15. > :15:19.it is inevitable. We are not going to play that game. It is not

:15:20. > :15:21.inevitable. It should not happen. The SNP should take at off the table

:15:22. > :15:33.because the people of Scotland don't want it. Could I do suggest if

:15:34. > :15:38.members do not wish to take an intervention it is up to them, so

:15:39. > :15:43.please do not continue to pester a member for an intervention if they

:15:44. > :15:45.are not taking an intervention. Since entering this Parliament I

:15:46. > :15:50.have campaigned for constitutional change based on the principle that

:15:51. > :15:54.powers should be devolved for a purpose and that purpose is to

:15:55. > :15:57.create a cooperative, progressive and socialist society. There is

:15:58. > :16:01.little point of having powers or repeatedly calling for them then not

:16:02. > :16:06.using those powers when you get them and that is what we have seen with

:16:07. > :16:09.taxation, social security, procurement and so many other areas

:16:10. > :16:15.where this government is failing our citizens. In the 65 public meetings

:16:16. > :16:19.I spoke at during the referendum, I argued for a federal system of

:16:20. > :16:26.government where power is devolved to the most logical and appropriate

:16:27. > :16:32.level. I want the government and bodies at all levels use that power

:16:33. > :16:35.to create for them when it, rebuild public services that civilised our

:16:36. > :16:41.society, provide homes for all of our children and end the scandal of

:16:42. > :16:48.260,000 Scottish children living in poverty. Devolving power as we have

:16:49. > :16:54.seen does not mean progressive change follows. That requires

:16:55. > :16:57.political, hard cash, the Regis the beach and of wealth and power and a

:16:58. > :17:01.commitment to face down the corporate and new establishment

:17:02. > :17:07.interest that control Scottish society and the economy. Presiding

:17:08. > :17:10.Officer, we had a referendum. A once in a generation event that the

:17:11. > :17:15.former and current First Minister spoke of but of course they now

:17:16. > :17:20.perform verbal gymnastics or resort to amnesia to disown their words but

:17:21. > :17:23.of course the camera never lies. On numerous occasions I have had the

:17:24. > :17:27.First Minister demand that if there is a majority in this Parliament to

:17:28. > :17:32.have another referendum then the will of this Parliament must be

:17:33. > :17:36.respected. But of course, this argument only applies when it suits

:17:37. > :17:40.the First Minister's case. Where was this great champion of parliamentary

:17:41. > :17:45.democracy when this Parliament defeated her government on fracking?

:17:46. > :17:51.On NHS cuts, on enterprise, on council funding, on behaviour at

:17:52. > :17:54.football, on failing education policy and local government cuts? I

:17:55. > :18:00.will give way to the First Minister if she can tell us why it sees her

:18:01. > :18:04.argument but 20 is defeated she rejects democracy. I will give way

:18:05. > :18:13.if the First Minister wants to tell us. That tells you everything. That

:18:14. > :18:19.tells you everything. Come on! Tell us. Not a movement from her. Does

:18:20. > :18:24.she change her policy after those defeats? No, she ploughed on

:18:25. > :18:32.regardless of this Parliament. So let none Bath take -- so let none of

:18:33. > :18:35.us take any lectures about respecting the will of Parliament

:18:36. > :18:38.went by her own arrogant belief that she can do no wrong she has shown

:18:39. > :18:49.nothing but contempt for this Parliament. And what about her

:18:50. > :18:52.little helpers in the Green party? What about her little helpers in the

:18:53. > :18:58.Green party, a party that has repeatedly claimed to stand on the

:18:59. > :19:01.moral high ground on so many issues, claimed they were the champions of

:19:02. > :19:08.democracy, that they do politics differently from other parties yet

:19:09. > :19:11.the worst though shaders in history, sold out public sector workers and

:19:12. > :19:17.council services at the first opportunity and now they rip up the

:19:18. > :19:20.manifesto and say in a new referendum is to happen it should

:19:21. > :19:25.come about by the will of the people and not be driven by calculations of

:19:26. > :19:31.party political advantage. Another sell-out at this rate, he will be

:19:32. > :19:37.declaring his undying love for Donald Trump. Presiding officer, we

:19:38. > :19:41.come to issue of Europe. Last Tuesday the SNP policy was to remain

:19:42. > :19:46.in the EU. The following day they were joining something else, on

:19:47. > :19:49.Saturday it was the EU and according to Alex Salmond we are back to

:19:50. > :19:56.something else. Is it really got the's plans to the powers returning

:19:57. > :20:01.to this Parliament and being handed back to Brussels? Only to have to

:20:02. > :20:04.hand again? Let's save time and let's call it the Alex Neil

:20:05. > :20:10.question. In an independent Scotland would join the EU, it would have to

:20:11. > :20:16.join the euro and most worryingly of all, accept 3% budget deficit. And

:20:17. > :20:19.of course, Scotland has never been asked if it wants be a member, so

:20:20. > :20:24.should there be a referendum? We need clarity from the government.

:20:25. > :20:27.Can the First Minister tell us, how public services would be paid for

:20:28. > :20:33.under her independence plan? There would be no formula that gives us

:20:34. > :20:40.over ?1000 extra per head. How would it be paid for with the oil prices

:20:41. > :20:47.at the level it is now? How would it be paid for with a 3% budget deficit

:20:48. > :20:50.demanded, demanded by the European Union? Presiding officer, people

:20:51. > :20:57.want a job, they want good school school their children to live in, to

:20:58. > :21:00.be educated in, they want dignity in old age and the living clean and

:21:01. > :21:05.safe community. The government and this Parliament's energy, time,

:21:06. > :21:08.budget and focus should be on these things, not another three years of

:21:09. > :21:15.constitutional wrangling. I believe that all of us want to live in a

:21:16. > :21:19.better society but socialism and nationalism are two very different

:21:20. > :21:23.political philosophies. As a socialist I want to live in a

:21:24. > :21:28.country that retains UK wide fiscal redistribution, a United trade union

:21:29. > :21:42.movement and social solidarity based on class, not nation. And our final

:21:43. > :21:46.speaker in this after the's debate, Michael Russell. Thank you. Can I

:21:47. > :21:51.welcome as a nationalist key re-emergence in the last five

:21:52. > :21:58.minutes of Better Together. It is, Ruth Davidson, to the Ruth Davidson

:21:59. > :22:05.and Neil Finley get-together, a marriage made I Brexit. Presiding

:22:06. > :22:14.officer, Bruce Crawford made one of the best speeches of the afternoon

:22:15. > :22:21.when he asked this chamber... Point of order, Neil Finley. Withdraw that

:22:22. > :22:25.because as he knows I voted Remain in the referendum. That is not a

:22:26. > :22:40.point of order, yet again. Allegedly, so did Ruth Davidson. Let

:22:41. > :22:46.me start with Bruce Cropper's speech, which was not only right in

:22:47. > :22:50.terms of conclusion as well as tone. This debate will have to be

:22:51. > :22:53.concluded by debate. It will have to be concluded by the exchange of

:22:54. > :22:59.ideas because there are three positions within this debate. There

:23:00. > :23:07.is a position that Scotland will leave the EU with the rest of the,

:23:08. > :23:12.UK on the hardest Brexit terms. There was a position we would leave

:23:13. > :23:15.the EU with the UK in eight the ghost native settlement and there is

:23:16. > :23:20.a position in which the Scottish people will decide the gauche gated

:23:21. > :23:27.settlement. In order to have that debate, we have to have clarity.

:23:28. > :23:30.There has been three confusions. All confusions sown by the Tory party.

:23:31. > :23:38.Let me see a bike and clarify them. The first was a conclusion of what a

:23:39. > :23:42.manifesto is. -- let me see if I can clarify them. According to them, a

:23:43. > :23:47.manifesto must be followed to the letter. According to the Tories, an

:23:48. > :23:51.SNP manifesto must be abandoned completely. According to the Tories,

:23:52. > :23:56.their own manifesto commitment, yes to the single market, must simply be

:23:57. > :24:00.forgotten. Not quite as entertaining as the Liberal Democrat manifesto,

:24:01. > :24:03.which according to Willie Rennie is about to be delivered, is on its

:24:04. > :24:09.way. I wouldn't hold your breath for that. The second confusion today is

:24:10. > :24:14.a confusion of governments. If you listen carefully to this debate,

:24:15. > :24:19.there is an extraordinary double standards being applied. The SNP

:24:20. > :24:25.government with the First Minister, who has painstakingly tried to get a

:24:26. > :24:31.Brexit compromise and it is here and I know how painstaking her approach

:24:32. > :24:37.has been, she has try to get a Brexit compromise. She is leading

:24:38. > :24:42.the highly successful and popular illustration. I am happy to start

:24:43. > :24:46.reading the list of achievements, it would take me longer than my six

:24:47. > :24:50.minutes, I am sorry to say, but a highly successful and popular

:24:51. > :24:55.Administration. Ten years in office with around 50% of the votes still.

:24:56. > :24:58.Apparently she is not doing her day job. She is obsessed to the

:24:59. > :25:03.detriment of, among other things, the legislative programme. She is

:25:04. > :25:09.only interested, according to the Tories, in her own political party.

:25:10. > :25:13.Yet astonishingly there is a UK Government and the UK Prime Minister

:25:14. > :25:17.who we know has rejected compromise, who creates division, he won't

:25:18. > :25:22.negotiate, whose presiding over a lapsing health service, a divided

:25:23. > :25:27.and class ridden education system, the most expensive universities in

:25:28. > :25:31.the world, what is, truthfully, the highest taxed part of the UK and who

:25:32. > :25:36.has made the worst ever cuts to local authorities and who has,

:25:37. > :25:40.because of Brexit, abandoned almost the entire Westminster legislative

:25:41. > :25:45.programme. Apparently she is doing her day job and in addition she is

:25:46. > :25:49.working in the interests of her nation, not her party and she has

:25:50. > :25:54.the support of the Labour Party, clearly. So, that is the second

:25:55. > :25:57.confusion. Both of those, I won't give way, both of those confusions

:25:58. > :26:04.are bad enough but there's a third and serious and alarming and

:26:05. > :26:07.damaging conclusion. It is this. It is exemplified by Adam Tomkins,

:26:08. > :26:10.apparently an expert on constitutional law, who at the end

:26:11. > :26:17.of his speech said we are other people and we say no and we mean it.

:26:18. > :26:23.Now, Professor Tomkins is not the people. Neither am I, the people. We

:26:24. > :26:28.are the government and they are the opposition. That is the situation.

:26:29. > :26:31.The opposition is absolutely entitled to vote and to argue

:26:32. > :26:38.against anything. Cameron was right about that. But they are not

:26:39. > :26:41.entitled to beat it. That is the situation the Tories have got

:26:42. > :26:44.themselves into. It is the situation Ruth Davidson has got herself into

:26:45. > :26:51.in that ill thought out dress conference when she appeared with a

:26:52. > :26:54.minister from the UK Government to -- veto the decision of the Scottish

:26:55. > :27:07.Parliament if that occurs tomorrow. It is not just of vetoing a majority

:27:08. > :27:09.in parliament but also a manifesto commitment and apparently both of

:27:10. > :27:14.those sings can now be vetoed because there's now a new Davidson

:27:15. > :27:18.definition of democracy, that everything must have the approval of

:27:19. > :27:25.the Tory party either here or in government at Westminster, even

:27:26. > :27:28.though they only have one out of the 59 Scottish MPs and even though they

:27:29. > :27:46.are a small men are witty in this Parliament. -- small minority. An

:27:47. > :27:50.opposition does not have a veto. Consider this tomorrow, when the

:27:51. > :27:55.parliament votes the judgment will be, if that will of the Parliament

:27:56. > :27:59.expressed the majority and manifesto prevails, or whether it is vetoed by

:28:00. > :28:07.an opposition. That will tell us whether the Tories are a Democratic

:28:08. > :28:10.party or not. In conclusion, Bruce Crawford was right about something

:28:11. > :28:16.else. Division is caused by people not by debate. We need to find a way

:28:17. > :28:25.to bring this debate is taking collusion. The only way we know, and

:28:26. > :28:32.this parliamentary debate shows it, is to allow the people to have their

:28:33. > :28:35.say. That is now... It doesn't matter how often received some

:28:36. > :28:45.shouts. That is the crystal clear conclusion anybody will draw in this

:28:46. > :28:49.debate. It must come to an end and the only way it will come to an end

:28:50. > :28:54.given the dangers of heart Brexit, given the reality of the situation

:28:55. > :28:57.in which all attempts at compromise have failed, there is only one way

:28:58. > :29:02.to bring this to an end and that is for the people to vote and those who

:29:03. > :29:14.are against the people voting are not Democrats. As members will know,

:29:15. > :29:17.the debate on Scotland's choice will continue tomorrow afternoon. There

:29:18. > :29:23.are no questions to be picked as a result of today's business. The

:29:24. > :29:27.decision on the motions and amendments today will be taken

:29:28. > :29:29.tomorrow and if members have spoken in the debates today then they

:29:30. > :29:40.should be present at closing speeches tomorrow, to begin at

:29:41. > :29:47.4:43pm. Now members' business. We leave our live coverage of the

:29:48. > :29:48.Scottish parliament. We rejoin MSPs for the rest of the debate