28/03/2017

:00:00. > :00:00.live coverage of the Commons on the red button service or on our

:00:00. > :00:15.website/ parliaments. It is worth in our sadness last week

:00:16. > :00:21.we were reminded of the common humanity and core values that unite

:00:22. > :00:24.us. We came together to proclaim our commitment to that most cherished

:00:25. > :00:30.principle of all democracy. The debate today at its heart is about

:00:31. > :00:37.democracy. It is about the right of people in Scotland to choose a

:00:38. > :00:45.future end in itself it is a demonstration of democracy in

:00:46. > :00:51.action. Views expressed through Rome last and sometimes very robust

:00:52. > :00:55.discussions. Ours is a privileged position and we all have a

:00:56. > :00:59.responsibility to rise to it. It is the example we set here in this

:01:00. > :01:04.chamber that many others will follow. Let us make sure that it is

:01:05. > :01:09.the right one. Let us recognise and accept that we all sincere in the

:01:10. > :01:13.opinion is that we hold. Let us remind ourselves that the person on

:01:14. > :01:18.the other side of the debate is not an enemy but somebody with a

:01:19. > :01:22.different but valid point of view. None of us come to the debate other

:01:23. > :01:29.than the best of intentions and the best of motivations. We all want the

:01:30. > :01:32.best for Scotland, as we resume the debate today C the words of the

:01:33. > :01:38.Church of Scotland when it tells us there is nothing inevitable about

:01:39. > :01:42.this debate or another debate being divisive. That depends on how we

:01:43. > :01:48.choose to conduct it, not just today but in the months that lie ahead.

:01:49. > :01:52.The church called for a debate which informs and inspires and not one

:01:53. > :01:58.which derives and dismisses. That should be the emission of all of us.

:01:59. > :02:03.My resolve in seeking to lead by example is to conduct myself in a

:02:04. > :02:06.spirit of openness, respect and understanding and I hope others

:02:07. > :02:11.across the chamber will join me in that. It is not my intention to

:02:12. > :02:15.rehearse all of the arguments are made in opening the debate last week

:02:16. > :02:20.which will relieve people on all sides I'm sure. There are however

:02:21. > :02:27.two points that I want to make today. Firstly I want to remind us

:02:28. > :02:33.why the debate matters, why the debates we are having is important.

:02:34. > :02:39.Scotland like the rest of the UK stands at a crossroads. When article

:02:40. > :02:44.50 of the Lisbon Treaty is triggered tomorrow, change for our country at

:02:45. > :02:50.that point becomes inevitable. We don't yet know the precise nature,

:02:51. > :02:54.much will depend of course on the outcome of the negotiation that lies

:02:55. > :03:01.ahead. We do know that the change would be significant. It is change

:03:02. > :03:06.that will impact our economy, not just a hero now but the long-term

:03:07. > :03:17.the UK Treasury said Brexit would make the UK permanently poorer. An

:03:18. > :03:28.impact on the very nature of society and the nature we live in. The

:03:29. > :03:33.freedom to travel across Europe is now up for negotiation with outcomes

:03:34. > :03:44.that at this moment are deeply uncertain. When the nature of the

:03:45. > :03:50.change becomes clear that should not be imposed on us, we should have the

:03:51. > :03:53.right to decide the nature of that change. The people of Scotland

:03:54. > :03:58.should have the right to choose between Brexit, a hard Brexit or

:03:59. > :04:08.becoming an independent country able to chart our own course. I hope that

:04:09. > :04:17.Scotland does have the right to decide our own future. When is it

:04:18. > :04:25.best to make that choice. We are all agreed that now is not the time.

:04:26. > :04:32.When the terms of Brexit can be clear and then can be judged against

:04:33. > :04:43.the challenges and opportunities, Theresa May said she in terms of

:04:44. > :04:49.Brexit, the future terms and... Ratification by other countries. In

:04:50. > :04:57.other words or the next June spring 2019. I hear what she says about the

:04:58. > :05:05.Prime Minister's view, has her government done an assessment of

:05:06. > :05:11.when this mighty completed? I have made this point before, I can only

:05:12. > :05:20.go on what the Prime Minister is saying about her intentions. I was

:05:21. > :05:25.clear when I announced my own intentions, if the two years was to

:05:26. > :05:33.be extended then that would have an impact on the timetable Parliament

:05:34. > :05:40.are discussing. We can only base our timetable on the set timetable set

:05:41. > :05:50.up by the Prime Minister and she was clear. I for my part are equally

:05:51. > :05:54.clear to ensure the details are set out in advance so the people of

:05:55. > :05:58.Scotland can make an informed choice. To enable a choice of

:05:59. > :06:04.Scottish and the UK Government need to make preparations now which

:06:05. > :06:07.brings me to the question of how should I respond should Parliament

:06:08. > :06:17.passed a motion? It's not my intention to do so, in recognition

:06:18. > :06:28.of the importance of the significance of what will happen

:06:29. > :06:34.tomorrow. Yesterday I wished the PM well for tomorrow and the

:06:35. > :06:37.negotiations that lie ahead, the Scottish Government will play a full

:06:38. > :06:42.and constructive role as she is willing to now. Let me be clear, I

:06:43. > :06:47.won the UK to get a good deal from the negotiations because whatever

:06:48. > :06:51.path Scotland chooses to take in the future. That'll be in our interest.

:06:52. > :06:56.I want Scotland to have a choice from the time is right. I hope the

:06:57. > :07:01.UK Government respects the will of the Parliaments, if it does so then

:07:02. > :07:05.I will enter discussion in good faith and with a willingness to

:07:06. > :07:10.compromise. However if it chooses not to do so I will turn to

:07:11. > :07:14.Parliament to set up the steps of the Scottish Government will take to

:07:15. > :07:17.progress the will of Parliament. When the Prime Minister formally

:07:18. > :07:25.starts the process of leaving the European Union tomorrow, none should

:07:26. > :07:29.be in doubt at what is at stake. The next two years will determine what

:07:30. > :07:32.kind of country we are going to be. The European Commission and the

:07:33. > :07:35.European Parliament and the Government informed will all have a

:07:36. > :07:44.say. The people of Scotland must also have their say. Scotland's

:07:45. > :07:50.future should be in Scotland's hand. How we harness our potential and how

:07:51. > :07:56.we overcome challenges. It is a debate that should engage all of us.

:07:57. > :08:00.Let us start today or restart today are seeming to go on, positively,

:08:01. > :08:12.passionately and respectfully. I commend motion. Presiding officer I

:08:13. > :08:16.am responding on half of my party today because the First Minister has

:08:17. > :08:20.decided to reopen for the Scottish Government. There is only one thing

:08:21. > :08:28.which is worth adding to my comments from last week. If this debate has

:08:29. > :08:32.served one purpose it is to show how most people don't want the

:08:33. > :08:42.Government and Parliament to be sidetracked by another referendum

:08:43. > :08:46.campaign. This parliaments added nothing to the sum of knowledge on

:08:47. > :08:49.Scottish independence, nothing new arguments, nothing to families who

:08:50. > :08:59.want to see Parliament improving schools, nothing on how we ensure

:09:00. > :09:04.patients are seen more quickly. No insight in how we tackle low growth

:09:05. > :09:08.in Scotland. This parliaments is about to gain a huge new powers over

:09:09. > :09:13.tax and welfare are making it one of the most powerful of its kind in the

:09:14. > :09:18.world and yet this last week we have seen a government whose sole purpose

:09:19. > :09:22.is to spend time complaining on the powers that it does not have. We

:09:23. > :09:25.have seen our First Minister whose clear priority is to press ahead

:09:26. > :09:32.with a referendum campaign to start tomorrow. She wants to use her time

:09:33. > :09:36.to pursue the real purpose in politics B deal briefly with the

:09:37. > :09:41.comments in relation to her meeting with the Prime Minister yesterday.

:09:42. > :09:47.Let's go through what the minister did mention. I heard no welcome of

:09:48. > :09:50.the counterterrorism plans. No welcome for the Prime Minister's

:09:51. > :09:53.support for International development and is Gilbride. Instead

:09:54. > :09:57.the only thing on the agenda yesterday and today is how to use

:09:58. > :10:01.the meeting with the Prime Minister to spend some new kind of pressure

:10:02. > :10:07.now for her rushed timetable for a referendum. Festival she should be

:10:08. > :10:13.aware that her colleagues in Russia have you. Alex Neil said all may not

:10:14. > :10:19.be done and dusted by March 2019 and a trade deal could extend. I also

:10:20. > :10:24.pointed to the leading authority in all things European who said in

:10:25. > :10:27.January, there is no way a trade agreements is going to be put in

:10:28. > :10:34.place in two years, that is unrealistic. Now of course I

:10:35. > :10:44.wouldn't be as pessimistic, I just look forward to... At the same

:10:45. > :10:47.conclusion, it matters not the question, the answer is always

:10:48. > :10:56.independence. Presiding Officer, the truth is that nothing changed at all

:10:57. > :11:01.yesterday. For The Record I spoke to the PM yesterday on our common

:11:02. > :11:05.interest in the Scottish Government has been working to make sure the

:11:06. > :11:13.exercise she announced is a success. Can I ask, the PM said to me clearly

:11:14. > :11:16.that it is her intention for the exit terms and also combines a

:11:17. > :11:21.free-trade agreement to be agreed before March. Can I take from the

:11:22. > :11:27.Commons today that she thinks I should distrust that?

:11:28. > :11:32.What I find remarkable is that the Prime Minister has been absolutely

:11:33. > :11:37.clear, time after time, question after question, in the media, in

:11:38. > :11:43.House of Commons to say now isn't the time. That it will take time to

:11:44. > :11:47.see a deal bedded in. What I can't believe is that the one person that

:11:48. > :11:52.she took into her trust was the First Minister, who's been trying to

:11:53. > :11:55.derail us from the beginning. It was in a one-to-one meeting, the any

:11:56. > :11:59.person that could make Theresa May change her mind, and she is not

:12:00. > :12:05.known for changing her mind, was Nicola Sturgeon, who couldn't wait

:12:06. > :12:13.to rush out and explain all. I won't take any lessons from the First

:12:14. > :12:19.Minister. Sit down. Nothing changed yesterday. I think I've answered the

:12:20. > :12:22.First Minister's question. Just as the First Minister announced two

:12:23. > :12:27.weeks ago in Bute House, she wants to start a referendum campaign to

:12:28. > :12:31.fire the starting gun on an 18 month countdown to a referendum. To have

:12:32. > :12:35.people knocking on our doors from this weekend, demanding your vote.

:12:36. > :12:40.Independence campaigners rerunning the trope would all be ?500 better

:12:41. > :12:44.off. Promising us the earth, still without a plan on currency, EU

:12:45. > :12:49.membership or how we would pay our way. I'm still wondering who one

:12:50. > :12:54.that iPad. The First Minister says she wants the UK to get a good

:12:55. > :12:59.Brexit deal but she still wants to push for independence anyway. It is

:13:00. > :13:03.our view and the UK Government's view remains this. At a time of

:13:04. > :13:06.enormous uncertainty, when it's only three years since the last vote,

:13:07. > :13:10.when we were told it would be once in a generation, that the decision

:13:11. > :13:13.of the Scottish people would be respected, that there would be no

:13:14. > :13:16.rerun without an overwhelming changing public opinion and that the

:13:17. > :13:24.people of Scotland would have a right to see the Brexit process play

:13:25. > :13:26.out, they need to see it working in practice, and that at this moment we

:13:27. > :13:30.should be pooling together, not hanging apart. As Alex Neil told the

:13:31. > :13:33.First Minister last week, we shouldn't even be contemplating such

:13:34. > :13:38.a vote unless people come with us. Mr Neill was arguing from his own

:13:39. > :13:42.perspective of somebody who wants independence. I respect his views.

:13:43. > :13:47.But I'm arguing from the perspective of someone who believes the First

:13:48. > :13:52.Minister's plan for a rushed referendum, with no agreement in

:13:53. > :13:56.place, with only one side dictating the timing, the franchise, the

:13:57. > :14:02.questions all the rules, would be a farce. Most people, yes, no and

:14:03. > :14:07.undecided are right to be turned off by this prospect, because they can

:14:08. > :14:10.see at too. I think the First Minister knows this. She knows the

:14:11. > :14:14.proposal she is putting forward today can't work, that it's not fair

:14:15. > :14:17.to the people of Scotland. That's not the point. This isn't the

:14:18. > :14:21.serious plan of a reasonable government. It is the SNP picking up

:14:22. > :14:28.the same old recipe the division. You take one unworkable proposal, it

:14:29. > :14:33.used in the greens and you bring it to the boil. It might have worked

:14:34. > :14:38.once. But it stinks and the people of Scotland aren't buying it. I said

:14:39. > :14:43.my piece twice, we will be voting against the SNP's motion today and

:14:44. > :14:49.in support of our own amendment. We also call on the greens to honour

:14:50. > :14:55.their manifesto commitment. Unless in the day since we last met he has

:14:56. > :15:02.managed to collect that elusive than 1 million signatures. This is what

:15:03. > :15:05.has changed since last week, since the debate was postponed last

:15:06. > :15:08.Wednesday, we have learned that fewer than half of nurseries in

:15:09. > :15:13.Scotland will offer extended free early learning and nursery hours.

:15:14. > :15:17.That police Scotland have a projected deficit of ?50 million

:15:18. > :15:21.next year. Just 5% of Scottish schools have been inspected in the

:15:22. > :15:24.last year. The SNP government has you turned on junior doctor hours

:15:25. > :15:30.and won't bring down the amount of time they can work. But two former

:15:31. > :15:34.members of the independent panel warning the report is a betrayal and

:15:35. > :15:37.will be watered down. Only this morning we learned that cancer

:15:38. > :15:42.waiting times have been missed again for the fourth year in a row. Last

:15:43. > :15:47.week, in what was a disgraceful episode, we were shouted at from the

:15:48. > :15:50.SNP benches and told we were frightened to debate independence.

:15:51. > :15:55.We are not but we are sick of it. Most people in Scotland have had

:15:56. > :15:58.enough too. This Parliament needs to do and must focus on the priorities

:15:59. > :16:03.of the people of this country, and it isn't the time to be sidetracked

:16:04. > :16:14.by yet more unnecessary division. It is time for a government that

:16:15. > :16:21.focuses on the job we pay it to do. Kezia Dugdale. Can I start by saying

:16:22. > :16:25.I welcome to the First Minister's remarks about the opportunity we

:16:26. > :16:29.have to have this debate and discuss it with civility and decency. Can I

:16:30. > :16:36.urge Ruth Davidson to reconsider her approach when we have a chance to

:16:37. > :16:40.reset this debate. APPLAUSE Last week we came together to

:16:41. > :16:44.remember those who lost their lives or were injured in the Westminster

:16:45. > :16:48.terror attack. We united in our condemnation of a barbaric act and

:16:49. > :16:52.reaffirmed our commitment to the values of tolerance and integration,

:16:53. > :16:56.freedom and solidarity. It was right that last week's debate about a

:16:57. > :17:00.second independence referendum was postponed. The business of the

:17:01. > :17:04.Scottish Parliament has resumed, and here I am once again responding to

:17:05. > :17:07.remarks from the First Minister about a second independence

:17:08. > :17:13.referendum. If it feels familiar to those of us in here, imagine how

:17:14. > :17:15.familiar it must feel to those outside of this chamber. To people

:17:16. > :17:17.who rarely tune into these discussions, who want their

:17:18. > :17:21.political leaders to focus on the business of government by delivering

:17:22. > :17:28.good schools and hospitals and growing the economy to provide jobs

:17:29. > :17:33.and prosperity. Once again they are debating the issue they thought had

:17:34. > :17:37.been decided in a once-in-a-lifetime vote in 2014. Yesterday's meeting

:17:38. > :17:41.between the Prime Minister and the First Minister summed up where we

:17:42. > :17:46.are today. Two intransigent leaders, focused only on the constitution,

:17:47. > :17:50.what the business of government gets pushed to one side. Nicola Sturgeon

:17:51. > :17:53.demonstrated she has given up any pretence she will fight for the best

:17:54. > :17:58.Brexit deal for Scotland and the UK. Instead of fighting for more powers

:17:59. > :18:01.to come to Scotland from Brussels, its independence or nothing for the

:18:02. > :18:07.First Minister. And, we have the spectacle of Theresa May... In the

:18:08. > :18:11.spirit we are both committed to I would ask to reflect on how unfair

:18:12. > :18:16.that commenters. I've spent a great deal of time trying to persuade the

:18:17. > :18:20.UK Government to find compromise. I published a paper in December that

:18:21. > :18:24.listed the additional powers that could have been devolved to the

:18:25. > :18:27.Scottish Parliament, that would have effectively delivered the federalism

:18:28. > :18:32.that Kezia Dugdale supports. If we are meeting with a point-blank

:18:33. > :18:36.refusal to do that, what is Kezia Dugdale's argument that this

:18:37. > :18:41.Parliament should simply accept we are being taken off cliff edge with

:18:42. > :18:46.no additional powers whatsoever and even an intention to muscle in on

:18:47. > :18:49.the powers we already have? I recognise the work the First

:18:50. > :18:54.Minister did to fight for more powers that this place but I haven't

:18:55. > :18:58.heard a word in the whole of 2017. Its independence first, last and

:18:59. > :19:02.everything, when it comes to her agenda. We also have the spectacle

:19:03. > :19:06.of Theresa May claiming to be the best protector of the union

:19:07. > :19:09.yesterday. Just ponder that for a moment. The leader of the

:19:10. > :19:13.Conservative Party that has caused so much division in our society,

:19:14. > :19:16.that sets Scotland against England in the general election and whose

:19:17. > :19:23.reckless Brexit scamp boot Gamble brought us to this point mode where

:19:24. > :19:27.leaving the EU provides the SNP with the excuse to push for another

:19:28. > :19:31.referendum. Some humility from the Tories and a genuine desire to

:19:32. > :19:35.properly engage with this place wouldn't go amiss. Presiding

:19:36. > :19:37.officer, in the weeks since we last met, at least three issues which

:19:38. > :19:42.would normally dominate the front pages of the papers have been buried

:19:43. > :19:45.in the back of the book. We've learned the SNP has abandoned a

:19:46. > :19:49.promise to reduce the working hours of junior doctors. A promise made by

:19:50. > :19:54.the former First Minister to the parents of a woman who lost her

:19:55. > :19:58.life. We have seen a damning report into the quality and provision of

:19:59. > :20:05.child and adolescent mental health services, and just today it's been

:20:06. > :20:11.confirmed that Scott -- Scotland's cancer waiting list times haven't

:20:12. > :20:15.been met. Together these scandals represent a complete abdication of

:20:16. > :20:20.responsibility. We are discussing any of these things. After all, why

:20:21. > :20:24.would the government responsible for the NHS want to debate its ten year

:20:25. > :20:29.record on the health service, not when another independence debate to

:20:30. > :20:32.be had. We all know the outcome of the vote tonight. The compliant

:20:33. > :20:39.Greens will once again back their fellow nationalists in the SNP.

:20:40. > :20:41.Let's not pretend this SNP Green push for another divisive referendum

:20:42. > :20:47.reflects the will of the Scottish people, because it doesn't. 85% of

:20:48. > :20:51.the population voted in the last referendum and we voted decisively

:20:52. > :20:57.to remain in the UK. That is the will of the people and it should be

:20:58. > :21:01.respected. My message to the First Minister remains unchanged. We are

:21:02. > :21:07.divided enough, do not divide us again. Leaving the UK would mean ?15

:21:08. > :21:10.billion worth of extra cuts to schools and hospitals in Scotland.

:21:11. > :21:14.Every time I'm sat in the TV studio with a member of the governing

:21:15. > :21:18.party, and I can see their front bench shaking their heads today,

:21:19. > :21:22.they seek to try and ridicule these figures. They simply cannot deny

:21:23. > :21:29.these are the government's own numbers. The government's own stats

:21:30. > :21:31.say independence would be catastrophic for working families.

:21:32. > :21:36.That's why I could never support a policy that would hurt our poorest

:21:37. > :21:39.communities. So the question beckons, why would the First

:21:40. > :21:43.Minister? We are just hours away from the start of the formal process

:21:44. > :21:46.of leaving the EU. The First Minister and I agree that Brexit

:21:47. > :21:50.risks damaging our relationship with Europe. It will threaten thousands

:21:51. > :21:56.of jobs right here in Scotland and hold back our economy. Like her, I

:21:57. > :22:00.accept that Brexit is going to happen. Scotland and the UK are

:22:01. > :22:03.leading the European Union. The First Minister has finally dropped

:22:04. > :22:08.the pretence we could remain in the EU and that clarity is welcome. The

:22:09. > :22:13.First Minister has another decision to make. Is she going to spend the

:22:14. > :22:16.next two years and 100% of her time campaigning for Scotland to leave

:22:17. > :22:19.the UK at the expense of governing, or will she roll up her sleeves from

:22:20. > :22:28.today and seek to secure more powers for this Parliament on the return

:22:29. > :22:33.from Brussels to Britain? Because tomorrow, I will be in Cardiff doing

:22:34. > :22:36.just that. Biking with the Labour First Minister of Wales Carwyn

:22:37. > :22:39.Jones, who is prepared to put in the hard work necessary now to secure

:22:40. > :22:45.the best Brexit deal for Wales and for the UK. This isn't a battle

:22:46. > :22:51.between independence and the status quo. It's about the SNP's

:22:52. > :22:55.never-ending campaign for separation and what the people want and voted

:22:56. > :22:59.for, a powerful Scottish Parliament within the UK. These benches will

:23:00. > :23:02.campaign with everything we have the Scotland to remain in the UK, a UK

:23:03. > :23:07.where political and economic power is in the hands of the many, not the

:23:08. > :23:11.few. A UK that delivers the people of Scotland. That was our manifesto

:23:12. > :23:14.commitment and we will honour that tonight by voting against the SNP's

:23:15. > :23:26.plans for another divisive referendum. APPLAUSE

:23:27. > :23:29.I want to use my time to argue why the Greens will be supporting the

:23:30. > :23:34.government motion. First of all I want to say something to those who

:23:35. > :23:37.have contacted us in recent days. We understand the prospect of another

:23:38. > :23:42.referendum on independence isn't welcome by some voters, and they

:23:43. > :23:46.haven't been shy of telling us. We respect their sincerely held views.

:23:47. > :23:51.We also understand why there's so much anxiety. For some people the

:23:52. > :23:55.referendum in 2014 wasn't the joyous civic carnival it is sometimes

:23:56. > :23:59.portrayed as. It challenged deep-seated ideas of identity and

:24:00. > :24:07.belonging and provoked legitimate questions. In 2014, voters rejected

:24:08. > :24:11.independence, and nothing I say today changes or is intended to

:24:12. > :24:16.disrespect but important vote. Today we are facing a very different

:24:17. > :24:20.situation. Whatever transpires over the coming years, as politicians we

:24:21. > :24:25.are responsible for setting the tone of public discourse. I am committed

:24:26. > :24:29.to engaging in debate and discussion with respect, with tolerance and

:24:30. > :24:37.empathy. Where do the Greens stand on this issue? Green politics rests

:24:38. > :24:42.on four pillars. Peace, equality on environmental sustainability and

:24:43. > :24:46.radical democracy. We are a party of social and environmental justice. We

:24:47. > :24:51.support a radical transformation of society, for the benefit of all and

:24:52. > :24:54.for the planet as a whole. We understand there are threats to

:24:55. > :24:58.economic, social and environmental well-being and we recognise they are

:24:59. > :25:02.part of the same problem. We further recognise that solving one of these

:25:03. > :25:07.crises cannot be achieved without solving the others. As part of our

:25:08. > :25:11.commitment to radical democracy, and contrary to many assertions

:25:12. > :25:14.currently being made, Scottish Greens have had a long-standing

:25:15. > :25:22.policy of supporting an autonomous Scotland. The party was founded in

:25:23. > :25:27.1990, and in a comprehensive policy document published that year we

:25:28. > :25:31.stated that, the Scottish Green Party supports demands for an

:25:32. > :25:37.independent, self governing Scotland, as throughout Europe,

:25:38. > :25:41.Green Party 's support other local demands for regional autonomy. In a

:25:42. > :25:45.manifest over the first Parliament elections in 1999, we stood on a

:25:46. > :25:49.manifesto calling for a referendum on greater independence for

:25:50. > :25:53.Scotland. As part of a programme of radical democracy, to reach far

:25:54. > :25:58.beyond the Scottish Parliament, to embrace genuine local democracy and

:25:59. > :26:03.fiscal autonomy. In the context of this debate here today which is

:26:04. > :26:07.taking place against the backdrop of the EU referendum vote, it's

:26:08. > :26:11.important to stress we also believe in a more democratic Europe. Our

:26:12. > :26:13.party policies to reconstitute the EU as a democratically accountable

:26:14. > :26:38.European Confederation of regions. The democracy is radical to have a

:26:39. > :26:43.referendum. To lose by 10% and ignore the result that Harley

:26:44. > :26:57.Democratic. As I mentioned in my opening remarks. , both of which are

:26:58. > :27:07.mutually incompatible in terms of the decision today is a large volume

:27:08. > :27:22.of e-mails have reminded us, ideas to deepen and strengthen democracy

:27:23. > :27:33.we highlight it was a preferred way to side a referendum, it is not the

:27:34. > :27:43.only means, the two indications of the electorate have been the

:27:44. > :27:49.referendum and the remaining votes. Our party remains as committed to

:27:50. > :27:54.autonomy and self-governance and independent antic and Federalist and

:27:55. > :28:01.side nine months on from the referendum, we are in an

:28:02. > :28:08.unprecedented situation. It is in flagrant breach of the manifesto to

:28:09. > :28:24.preserve the integrity of the single market. With no electoral mandate...

:28:25. > :28:28.We are presiding a place where I don't want to be and where a lot of

:28:29. > :28:36.people here don't want to be. We could pursue federalism, we could

:28:37. > :28:40.hold a second referendum all we could put as much power in the hands

:28:41. > :28:44.of the Scottish people to decide what part we choose. We are dealing

:28:45. > :28:49.with the aftermath of one of the biggest failures of UK statecraft.

:28:50. > :28:55.The choice before it is not the choice that we should all would like

:28:56. > :29:00.to face and the Greens will vote according to the politics are

:29:01. > :29:04.alarmed earlier. We have a distinctive proud tradition of

:29:05. > :29:08.democratic reform and we wish to see important decisions about the future

:29:09. > :29:13.of Scotland being put in the hands of the Scottish parliament and we

:29:14. > :29:14.have no difficulty in giving the First Minister the mandate to seek

:29:15. > :29:31.powers under section 30. Thank you deciding Officer, I'm

:29:32. > :29:38.grateful for the opportunity to speak in this debate a second time.

:29:39. > :29:45.When I got to my feet on Wednesday, the rumours of the attack had been

:29:46. > :29:54.substantiated and I like many people couldn't reach their colleagues. As

:29:55. > :30:04.the text evaporated I was dried up and lost for words, it's very hard

:30:05. > :30:08.to speak with clarity. But I spoke at the same conviction as I did last

:30:09. > :30:17.week, I want to keep the promise of the people who sends me there. Who

:30:18. > :30:22.new emotion would inevitably... The use of their vote to remain in

:30:23. > :30:27.Europe as leveraged to bring about a second referendum. We and I count

:30:28. > :30:33.myself among that number utterly reject the 4-star lab at this

:30:34. > :30:38.government and the Green Party want to do in casting this between two

:30:39. > :30:42.unions. The decision to withdraw from Europe broke my heart that as

:30:43. > :30:46.an internationalist my response can never be too up sticks from one

:30:47. > :30:51.nation but instead I choose to stay and to resist Brexit and to fight

:30:52. > :30:55.every election thereafter on a re-entry to the European Union.

:30:56. > :31:06.There is no comfort for ardent European Union 's in the SNP. The

:31:07. > :31:13.Democrats, Liberal Democrats have been fighting on a platform of

:31:14. > :31:20.federalism for over a century, can they deliver us back into the EU? I

:31:21. > :31:23.think the intervention, this is my party's policy I've been fighting

:31:24. > :31:33.for lost causes my whole life but I will achieve this one. On the one

:31:34. > :31:35.hand we have a thin rhetoric from a government that would reassure those

:31:36. > :31:40.who might not entertain another party up in membership through

:31:41. > :31:46.independence, whilst on the other we see them trying to appease Spanish

:31:47. > :31:50.diplomats and a pro-Brexit flank of their own party by going away from

:31:51. > :32:02.any commitment to guarantee or even seek membership in the E. Such is

:32:03. > :32:07.the division on this issue. I say to them remain voters will find you

:32:08. > :32:18.out. We shall not be the fulcrum over which she tipped this nation

:32:19. > :32:22.into the divisions of the past. One in four people report a damaged

:32:23. > :32:28.relationship as a result of this. I would not see Scotland return to

:32:29. > :32:31.acrimony. Opinion polls show people don't want that either. I don't

:32:32. > :32:35.believe the architects of this referendum who will vote for tonight

:32:36. > :32:41.have met their own tests on the measure of public opinion in

:32:42. > :32:44.bringing about. If it comes then I will fight it. Like last time it

:32:45. > :32:55.won't be easy to defend something which isn't functional. If you were

:32:56. > :32:58.to ascribe the same ambitions to these islands the old joke goes you

:32:59. > :33:04.wouldn't start here but all of us are imperfect and that imperfection

:33:05. > :33:10.is reflected in human affairs. We make bad decisions and sometimes we

:33:11. > :33:12.elect a government that Hamas. It will be a battle to the fore this

:33:13. > :33:30.country. We have heard many members in this

:33:31. > :33:37.chamber and beyond this chamber state this case. It's not easy to

:33:38. > :33:44.get people enthusiastic all the time about the idea of getting British.

:33:45. > :33:53.There are asked ex-of our -- aspects of our history that are arcane. For

:33:54. > :33:59.all of the darkness that lies in our wake light exist as well. In the

:34:00. > :34:07.abolitionist movement, after the images of famine the flying

:34:08. > :34:12.there is such capacity for compassion amongst the British

:34:13. > :34:16.people, evident last week and the many selfless acts on the kindness

:34:17. > :34:21.in a bridge on a courtyard and in an ambulance. This is the Britain I

:34:22. > :34:27.recognise, resilience, tolerant, I have not given up on that. My

:34:28. > :34:32.election to this place is the single proudest moment of my life, I came

:34:33. > :34:39.here to make a difference, to legislate and scrutinise the work of

:34:40. > :34:45.government. Because of the crisis in the health service I'm yet to vote

:34:46. > :34:56.on a single on a government strategy. That paralysis is the cost

:34:57. > :35:03.of fixation on the calculations. My constituent centre here to do that.

:35:04. > :35:12.I want to sue the problems in the Society away from the divisions of

:35:13. > :35:16.the past and I will vote against it because I I want to stand with my

:35:17. > :35:23.colleagues in the shed believe that the best those of the United Kingdom

:35:24. > :35:32.can still lie ahead of it. We now move into the open part of the

:35:33. > :35:37.debate. Thank you I want to pay tribute to the one to protect us and

:35:38. > :35:40.lost loved ones last week. In the aftermath there was a sombre sense

:35:41. > :35:44.at Westminster and other parliaments like this one on address symbols of

:35:45. > :35:48.democracy debate the places where ordinary people work on behalf of

:35:49. > :35:55.this nation and last week reminded us our common humanity. As an

:35:56. > :35:57.ordinary person I approach this debate with family members and

:35:58. > :36:03.friends and colleagues in this chamber and beyond the sometimes

:36:04. > :36:07.agree with me and sometimes disagree, that is the bedrock of our

:36:08. > :36:15.democracy using debate and discussion and disagreement to take

:36:16. > :36:18.forward this nation. The recently care and the reason we debate and

:36:19. > :36:25.discuss is that we share one thing in common and that is vision. Vision

:36:26. > :36:29.for Scotland and vision for a better Scotland. Vision was articulated in

:36:30. > :36:35.some form by every Member last week and here it day in, day out from

:36:36. > :36:39.many others. We all have a vision for Scotland and it is critical

:36:40. > :36:46.these days because as the First Minister said, change is inevitable.

:36:47. > :36:48.There is a fog of confusion, there is no certainty Scotland will be

:36:49. > :36:55.heard or that their interests will be served. The status quo has sailed

:36:56. > :37:02.and we are left with uncertain, unknown change. As a nation we can

:37:03. > :37:09.beat tossed here and there by the wind and drift along in a

:37:10. > :37:14.directionless current or we can draw a map or and chart a course for

:37:15. > :37:19.Scotland. To reach the court he cannot tie ankle or drift and hope

:37:20. > :37:21.for the best, you don't get your destination unless you steer the

:37:22. > :37:26.boat with the wind in your sails on a map in your hand. This debate is

:37:27. > :37:29.about whether we can, whether the people in Scotland with our

:37:30. > :37:36.different views that our shared vision for a better Scotland will

:37:37. > :37:40.strike out a course on charter map in hand or whether we will drift

:37:41. > :37:43.along and hope for the best. Our future should not be never should be

:37:44. > :37:48.in the hands of any single politician or single government. It

:37:49. > :37:55.should be now and always in the hands of the people. It is with our

:37:56. > :38:01.individual and collective grasp to behave in a manner that befits a

:38:02. > :38:06.nation that is determining its constitutional future. These are

:38:07. > :38:11.weighty matters and it requires humility, responsibility,

:38:12. > :38:16.self-discipline and courage. Politicians can and do to our shame

:38:17. > :38:20.sway opinions by appealing to fear and prejudice. It is sometimes

:38:21. > :38:26.called Project fear and we have seen time and time again. By whatever

:38:27. > :38:31.small victories are secured by Project fear, I can guarantee you

:38:32. > :38:38.one thing, it is at the cost of long-term faith and trust. I accept

:38:39. > :38:44.that my friends and colleagues may disagree on many things and I will

:38:45. > :38:51.listen earnestly to all views and will defend their right to be heard

:38:52. > :38:59.in conversations and to be heard in a referendum. I'm very grateful for

:39:00. > :39:05.you taking the intervention, can you confirm whether it is disrespectful

:39:06. > :39:08.to define this project fear as those of the audacity to disagree with you

:39:09. > :39:17.and present different arguments about the... If the Member had heard

:39:18. > :39:26.correctly, I specifically said that politicians to our shame and did not

:39:27. > :39:31.point the finger in any direction. And so I repeat I defend everybody's

:39:32. > :39:35.right to be heard, heard in conversation, heard and debate and

:39:36. > :39:42.heard in a referendum. My vision for Scotland is captured in one of the

:39:43. > :39:58.Scottish languages and this is a verse Gaelic poem. SPEAKS GAELIC.

:39:59. > :40:02.And in English which isn't half as good. Beautiful Scotland you come of

:40:03. > :40:07.age, you will leave your father 's house and stand in free communion

:40:08. > :40:10.with the rest of the world and my belief in Scottish independence is

:40:11. > :40:15.not and never will be born of self-importance. All with

:40:16. > :40:21.self-centredness or with a whimsical dream of nationhood but of the firm

:40:22. > :40:27.belief that Scotland could and should join the global community is

:40:28. > :40:33.as worthy Member and a prosperous nation with a strong economy and a

:40:34. > :40:36.highly educated workforce. With an open heart for immigrants and

:40:37. > :40:47.refugees, as a caring nation that looks out for those who are more

:40:48. > :40:53.vulnerable home and excelling in key innovative technologies, wealthy

:40:54. > :41:00.with natural resources, as an outward looking nation that is

:41:01. > :41:03.seeing food and exports. Who choose to foster international

:41:04. > :41:07.relationships, that is our nation Scotland.

:41:08. > :41:21.APPLAUSE Oliver Mundell. Thank you. There is

:41:22. > :41:25.no majority support for this proposal in Scotland, and the

:41:26. > :41:29.question over a Section 30 order has already been answered. Simply,

:41:30. > :41:35.clearly and fairly. So in response, what do we have? A First Minister

:41:36. > :41:42.who continues to use her own brand of intransigence. Well, First

:41:43. > :41:45.Minister, after your decision to set the Scottish Government against the

:41:46. > :41:50.will of the Scottish people, history may look back on today and see it as

:41:51. > :41:55.the date the fate of our union was sealed. Because nothing we've heard

:41:56. > :42:00.in these debates reaches out beyond the SNP's own narrow base. I'm not

:42:01. > :42:05.sure if Nicola Sturgeon believes the people of Scotland are daft. It's

:42:06. > :42:10.plain to all but the motivation for her beloved referendum rings hollow.

:42:11. > :42:15.After harping on about the need for certainty and the need to tell

:42:16. > :42:18.people what they are voting for, how can she justify another referendum

:42:19. > :42:23.on the back of Brexit, while failing to say whether or not we would

:42:24. > :42:28.rejoin the European Union? How can she stoke up fear about leaving the

:42:29. > :42:31.single market without telling us her plans are our currency? It's simply

:42:32. > :42:35.not fair and it's just not on. Nicola Sturgeon talks of the

:42:36. > :42:41.Scottish Parliament as if we have a divine right to decide on behalf of

:42:42. > :42:45.the people. She talks about democracy as if it belongs to her.

:42:46. > :42:52.This Parliament gets its authority from the people. Not just at

:42:53. > :42:57.election time but on these big issues. The people of our country

:42:58. > :43:05.are sovereign, the power to decide does belong in their hands.

:43:06. > :43:08.INTERJECTIONS. The problems with this First Minister is that the

:43:09. > :43:12.people of Scotland have already spoken. Not only have they ruled out

:43:13. > :43:15.independence for a generation but they've made it clear there is no

:43:16. > :43:21.consensus that now was the right time to reopen the debate. Despite

:43:22. > :43:25.irresponsible, ill judged and politically motivated accusations of

:43:26. > :43:30.colonialism and imperialism that have been trotted out by SNP

:43:31. > :43:34.representatives, they themselves seem to have forgotten that they too

:43:35. > :43:39.have a duty to govern by consent. It's a nice try but when the SNP

:43:40. > :43:42.leadership have so arrogantly suggested that the Conservatives

:43:43. > :43:46.believe they can do anything they like in Scotland, they seem to have

:43:47. > :43:51.missed the irony. The truth is that after a decade in power, it is

:43:52. > :43:54.Nicola Sturgeon who believes she can dictate terms, not just to the UK

:43:55. > :44:01.Government but to the people of Scotland. We saw it out of touch and

:44:02. > :44:05.hardened by the trappings of office, calling a press conference from Bute

:44:06. > :44:10.House to announce her referendum. A moment shared with the camera crews

:44:11. > :44:14.rather than the many voices of the Yes movement or the people of

:44:15. > :44:19.Scotland. It was yet another stunt and yet another game. I say this as

:44:20. > :44:22.gently as I can do the First Minister. The danger of telling

:44:23. > :44:27.everyone who doesn't agree with the referendum that they are Tories

:44:28. > :44:33.comes with a very real risk to her party. Despite what the SNP claim,

:44:34. > :44:36.more people are sick and tired of all of this and they've been pushed

:44:37. > :44:41.so far into a corner that they are willing to do almost anything to get

:44:42. > :44:46.that message over to the First Minister. I've seen that in my own

:44:47. > :44:52.Dom Freese share constituency where thousands of Labour voters didn't

:44:53. > :44:57.vote for me because they desperately wanted a change of SNP --

:44:58. > :45:02.Dumfriesshire. They changed their vote, many for the first time in

:45:03. > :45:09.years, because they feared that a day like today would come. And they

:45:10. > :45:14.knew... They knew that when it did, the SNP wouldn't listen to them, and

:45:15. > :45:22.couldn't be trusted to respect their point of view. And how right they

:45:23. > :45:25.were. Completely oblivious to her own fate at the ballot box, my

:45:26. > :45:29.opponent in that election will tonight put her party before the

:45:30. > :45:33.people, representing everything people have come to dislike about

:45:34. > :45:48.politics, and everything they expect of the SNP. Your constituents in

:45:49. > :45:51.Dumfriesshire voted against Brexit and the agricultural economy there

:45:52. > :45:56.stands to lose millions of pounds as a result of Brexit. Perhaps when you

:45:57. > :46:01.are talking about the will of your constituents you might bring them

:46:02. > :46:06.into consideration on how you vote. APPLAUSE

:46:07. > :46:14.That is exactly yet. If we take that logic and applied it to SNP

:46:15. > :46:17.representatives in this chamber, there are very few of them who

:46:18. > :46:21.should be supporting this proposal. They should be listening to the

:46:22. > :46:28.people. Because what we have is a government party who no longer speak

:46:29. > :46:31.for the 2 million No voters. A government who have no guarantees

:46:32. > :46:38.for those who bond continued EU membership, and a government who

:46:39. > :46:45.want to airbrush 1 million leave voters. They want to airbrush those

:46:46. > :46:52.1 million Scottish leave voters out of history in order to spare the

:46:53. > :46:59.brushes of their leader. More people in our nation voted to leave

:47:00. > :47:02.pampered across Nicola Sturgeon's name the First Minister. We

:47:03. > :47:08.shouldn't be surprised the SNP want to ignore democracy because they

:47:09. > :47:12.only like it when it suits them. On a day when they claim democratic

:47:13. > :47:17.outrage and talus ignoring them will put the UK at risk, remember this.

:47:18. > :47:23.They don't speak has friends of the people or in the national interest.

:47:24. > :47:36.For the SNP this debate always will be about self-interest. Thank you.

:47:37. > :47:39.Ben MacPherson. I would like to remind the chamber that I am a

:47:40. > :47:44.Parliamentary liaison officer to be fully mandated First Minister of

:47:45. > :47:49.Scotland. APPLAUSE However, today's debate isn't about

:47:50. > :47:55.Nicola Sturgeon or Theresa May, or any other politician. Instead, it's

:47:56. > :48:01.about all of the people of Scotland. And the reality that in the months

:48:02. > :48:06.and years ahead, we collectively, as a society, face a serious and

:48:07. > :48:13.important choice between independence in Europe or a Tory

:48:14. > :48:16.Brexit Britain. It's a choice being considered around kitchen tables and

:48:17. > :48:23.boardrooms across our country. It's a choice communities are discussing

:48:24. > :48:28.in coffee shops, bars and the workplace. And in a shared hope for

:48:29. > :48:31.a better Scotland, throughout the nation, we must face this choice

:48:32. > :48:39.together. Democratically, graciously, honestly, and in a

:48:40. > :48:43.spirit of mutual respect. As we deliberate this choice, I would

:48:44. > :48:48.encourage all of us to think carefully about our words and about

:48:49. > :48:52.how we conduct ourselves. I appeal to all sides to as wide to avoid

:48:53. > :48:58.polarising terms, like nationalists and unionists. These divisive

:48:59. > :49:03.expressions diminish our public discourse and are becoming more and

:49:04. > :49:09.more meaningless by the day, because Brexit will be a severe act of

:49:10. > :49:13.separatism, motivated in part by a sense of British nationalism.

:49:14. > :49:18.Arguments for and against Scottish independence concern both feelings

:49:19. > :49:24.of national identity and notions of wider political relationships with

:49:25. > :49:28.other countries. So instead, let us agree we are all civic nationalists

:49:29. > :49:33.and internationalists to 1 degrees or another. And instead focus on the

:49:34. > :49:37.substance of the situation before us. Which is a complex and

:49:38. > :49:43.imperative judgment about how we want to be governed and where we

:49:44. > :49:47.want power to reside. That is what our constitutional choice is

:49:48. > :49:55.substantially about. For me, the choice we face is whether to move

:49:56. > :49:58.forward and broaden our horizons as a confident, modern, compassionate,

:49:59. > :50:01.independent country in Europe. All instead, whether we want to narrow

:50:02. > :50:05.our opportunities and diminish our quality of life in the years ahead

:50:06. > :50:12.by staying part of an increasingly backward looking, more insular, more

:50:13. > :50:16.isolated Tory Brexit Britain. It is a fundamental choice about our

:50:17. > :50:23.values, and the vision of where we want to be in ten, 20, 30, 40 years'

:50:24. > :50:26.time and beyond. It's a choice about our place in the world and the

:50:27. > :50:34.direction of this remarkable place we call home. Let's remember, this

:50:35. > :50:38.choice we face has been caused by a Brexit outcome that Scotland didn't

:50:39. > :50:42.vote for. It's a choice bound up in the fact that Scotland shows

:50:43. > :50:48.overwhelmingly to remain a committed European partner. And

:50:49. > :50:53.internationalist, Alp looking, 21st-century society. That's the

:50:54. > :50:57.sort of country the majority of Scottish people voted for, not a

:50:58. > :51:04.hard Brexit -- outward looking. Let's remember, Brexit for

:51:05. > :51:07.independence is a choice Scotland has been compelled into making by

:51:08. > :51:11.eight Conservative government we didn't elect and they'd leave result

:51:12. > :51:19.we didn't vote for. A leave result that some now seem to want Scotland

:51:20. > :51:23.to it logically and fatalistically accept. Against our democratic

:51:24. > :51:28.wishes and contrary to the economic and social interests of our country

:51:29. > :51:34.and of our time. Presiding Officer, we face a clear choice. About

:51:35. > :51:38.whether other people, as a society, we either accept the damaging

:51:39. > :51:44.consequences of a hard Brexit, or instead charts a different, more

:51:45. > :51:47.inclusive, more progressive course with independence. That is a

:51:48. > :51:53.profoundly different choice to the one we considered in 2014. Just as

:51:54. > :52:00.the circumstances have changed significantly since the 23rd of June

:52:01. > :52:10.last year. The question before us is a question of indyrefnew not a

:52:11. > :52:17.question of indyref2. We face new choices and new challenges. It is a

:52:18. > :52:20.critical choice that matters to every woman and man across the

:52:21. > :52:26.country. Whatever their background and whatever they've come from. In

:52:27. > :52:31.this question of unexpected and extraordinary period of change, flux

:52:32. > :52:36.and deep uncertainty, as a result of Brexit, the voice of the people

:52:37. > :52:41.should and must be heard in a new referendum. A new referendum that

:52:42. > :52:46.our fellow citizens both desire and deserve. As politicians, we have an

:52:47. > :52:51.obligation and a responsibility to empower the people we have the

:52:52. > :52:55.privilege to represent, and to allow the people of Scotland to determine

:52:56. > :53:05.Scotland's choice at a time of Scotland's choosing. Support the

:53:06. > :53:13.government motion. APPLAUSE James Kelly. Thank you. Like all our

:53:14. > :53:15.speakers in the debate at like to offer my condolences to those

:53:16. > :53:20.affected by the events in London last week. People watching this

:53:21. > :53:27.debate from outside the Holyrood bubble must wonder why, again, the

:53:28. > :53:31.Scottish Parliament is considering the issue of a divisive second

:53:32. > :53:36.independence referendum. Particularly when we were told in

:53:37. > :53:45.2014 that it was a once in a generation opportunity. No thank

:53:46. > :53:52.you. No matter how much Alex Salmond thinks he can airbrush video footage

:53:53. > :53:56.of him saying that out of the internet, the reality is he did say

:53:57. > :54:01.it. Not only that, he also, along with the First Minister, signed up

:54:02. > :54:06.to the Edinburgh agreement. An agreement binding on both sides,

:54:07. > :54:13.both sides agreed to accept the results. When this was put to Alex

:54:14. > :54:18.Salmond last week at the BBC, he said, it doesn't really matter. Once

:54:19. > :54:24.I resigned as First Minister, the agreement didn't matter any more.

:54:25. > :54:31.That illustrates the arrogance of the SNP that they think they can

:54:32. > :54:40.dismiss a democratic vote of more than 10% of the people, there was a

:54:41. > :54:47.10% lead to vote no over vote yes. They can also dismiss agreements

:54:48. > :54:50.they signed up to accept the result. It's independence at any cost. We've

:54:51. > :54:55.heard much about how it's because of Brexit and because of the EU issue.

:54:56. > :55:03.The reality is, the logical extension of a yes vote and an

:55:04. > :55:06.independent Scotland in September 2014 would have been to take

:55:07. > :55:13.Scotland out of the EU. We've even heard in recent days that the SNP

:55:14. > :55:21.are confused as to their position whether they want to seek membership

:55:22. > :55:24.of the EU, even in the view argued by Alex Neil and others that an

:55:25. > :55:32.independent Scotland would have to have another referendum.

:55:33. > :55:35.INTERJECTIONS. Not at this time. The reality also is that people don't

:55:36. > :55:41.want another independence referendum. Poll after poll has

:55:42. > :55:51.rejected that. Even last week, the most recent poll of businesses by an

:55:52. > :55:56.accountancy firm said 89 people working didn't want an independence

:55:57. > :56:01.referendum. People in our communities don't want to go back to

:56:02. > :56:08.those days, because as Andy Wightman acknowledged, it wasn't a civic,

:56:09. > :56:15.joyous, democratic celebration. For those who were abused online merely

:56:16. > :56:21.for expressing an opinion, it it was not an enjoyable time.

:56:22. > :56:33.For those pensioners scared to say they would vote no because of the

:56:34. > :56:46.aggressive and intimidate three nature of the yes campaigners. I

:56:47. > :56:50.won't give way. For those who were chased down streets with threats and

:56:51. > :56:56.intimidation, it wasn't a celebration of democracy. That's why

:56:57. > :57:03.people do not want to return to divisive second independence

:57:04. > :57:12.referendum. We've heard much from the Government but the reality is

:57:13. > :57:16.the default position is to ignore the will of Parliament. Whether it

:57:17. > :57:23.is fracking order for by light, health service or closures or

:57:24. > :57:27.centralisation of economic agencies. The Government ignores the will of

:57:28. > :57:32.Parliament. People wonder what happens when the Government loses a

:57:33. > :57:37.vote. The Minister for Parliamentary business takes a bit of paper

:57:38. > :57:46.upstairs to the ministerial office and he puts it in a file that says

:57:47. > :57:55.please fix ignore no action required. The reality is that in the

:57:56. > :58:04.week that the Government call for another independence referendum,

:58:05. > :58:13.child poverty rose. And this government didn't even blink an eye.

:58:14. > :58:17.In that same week we found out the Government had over blowing the

:58:18. > :58:23.budget by 20 million. What an outrage that when there are people

:58:24. > :58:32.sleeping yards from the parliament, the SNP underspend how doing budget

:58:33. > :58:39.by ?20 million. We hear much by the use of powers, yet when it comes to

:58:40. > :58:44.social security powers, it could not take on the powers immediately

:58:45. > :58:48.because it will take three years to build a computer system. What an

:58:49. > :58:54.absolute outrage. The reality is that when people elected a

:58:55. > :59:00.government in 2016, they didn't elect a campaign committee so it is

:59:01. > :59:07.time to reject their second independence referendum, get on with

:59:08. > :59:15.the issues in hand, support the NHS staff. The fair and public services

:59:16. > :59:20.and create jobs in the local community. Let's get on with the job

:59:21. > :59:31.in hand and not waste time on a divisive second independence

:59:32. > :59:35.referendum. Thank you very much. How sad to hear of the contribution from

:59:36. > :59:48.Mr Kelly. I really would have thought better from him and very sad

:59:49. > :59:53.to hear that. My thoughts go to everybody who suffered in from the

:59:54. > :59:56.events of last week. I echo everybody from the champ when I say

:59:57. > :00:00.my thoughts are with them. After that meeting I was speaking to

:00:01. > :00:05.various people in Westminster, not just from our party but from others.

:00:06. > :00:18.The subject got onto Brexit and I was fortunate... It makes

:00:19. > :00:24.interesting good reading also, I've heard numbers and Mr Kelly mentioned

:00:25. > :00:29.that this is not important but if you hear what is actually in the

:00:30. > :00:35.repeal act and I think this debate is very important. Not just for

:00:36. > :00:44.Scotland but the rest of the UK. I would like to mention the fact that

:00:45. > :00:47.in this paper, I know the UK Labour Party and the Liberals have raised

:00:48. > :00:58.this issue before with great concerns about the Henry VIII

:00:59. > :01:03.powers. Page six of the paper is headed revolution and legislating

:01:04. > :01:10.for Brexit will have implications. If the great repeal transposes all

:01:11. > :01:20.directly then it could affect measures which. Exception. This

:01:21. > :01:32.would require consent from the legislators as long as expected. The

:01:33. > :01:38.civil convention even at the reform includes a rider that the Government

:01:39. > :01:46.will not normally legislate devolved matters without consent. However it

:01:47. > :01:58.is not clear if withdrawal from the EU would be considered normal. Thus

:01:59. > :02:04.it would be... The UK power to legislate on devolved matters

:02:05. > :02:09.without consent as stated in the devilish and statutes. If consent is

:02:10. > :02:14.sorted might be withheld. The process of securing consent might

:02:15. > :02:18.introduce it. Equally it would bring its own political issues and would

:02:19. > :02:22.raise its dishes quite rightly as I said not in the devolved

:02:23. > :02:33.institutions. Let's look at the devolved issues. Professor Douglas

:02:34. > :02:42.Scott juror attention to this in a paper and I quote page 49. The aim

:02:43. > :02:53.of the great repeal Bill is to a good part of the law for example

:02:54. > :02:58.fishing. A great repeal bill translates EU law on matters that

:02:59. > :03:05.have been devolved and UK law so that could amount to legislation on

:03:06. > :03:11.devolved areas. Last week John Lamont mentioned the fact that

:03:12. > :03:20.taking back powers from Brussels to Scotland and John Lamont said

:03:21. > :03:23.Scotland. It's the opposite way which is why it is so important that

:03:24. > :03:26.we have a vote on this particular issue and in my mind and in the mind

:03:27. > :03:34.of many others, the debate today under the voter night, excuse me a

:03:35. > :03:37.minute, the night the debate is not only about Scotland and the people

:03:38. > :03:43.of Scotland having a choice that about protecting the very

:03:44. > :03:54.sovereignty of the Parliament. I think people should realise that.

:03:55. > :04:00.It's a very important issue. The fact of the matter is Brexit has

:04:01. > :04:03.changed everything. The manifesto clearly states Scottish parliaments

:04:04. > :04:14.have the right to hold another referendum which is a material

:04:15. > :04:20.change. There is a substantial material change which is why the

:04:21. > :04:22.circumstances are only right that the people of Scotland are given the

:04:23. > :04:39.opportunity to choose their future. Along with Scotland being too poor,

:04:40. > :04:51.that is all they have talked about. I must say, if you be quiet place,

:04:52. > :04:55.you've had your say, I must say, the language being used by the

:04:56. > :05:02.opposition parties to me is unbecoming to this parliaments. And

:05:03. > :05:11.it's a terrible example that they have set to young people in the

:05:12. > :05:16.international world, presiding officer, I come from a family of

:05:17. > :05:22.Irish, Ingrid and Scottish background, there was never any

:05:23. > :05:29.division. All of my family were Labour Party and the voters also. We

:05:30. > :05:32.never had a vision in our house, we have plenty of debate and that is

:05:33. > :05:37.healthy. Debate is healthy and we now is a family get-together, we

:05:38. > :05:41.still have Labour, we have SNP, one labelled by the way. SNP and greens

:05:42. > :05:56.and thankfully no Tories. Liam care. Thank you Deputy presiding Officer.

:05:57. > :06:01.The people of Scotland do not want this debate, not now and for good

:06:02. > :06:05.reasons. I put myself up for election because I have real

:06:06. > :06:09.concerns about what is happening in Scotland. The attainment gap, the

:06:10. > :06:22.funding and recruitment crisis, the difficulties in our infrastructure.

:06:23. > :06:26.I could go on. These are issues which the Parliament has something

:06:27. > :06:36.to do something about. They have the power to do something about it now.

:06:37. > :06:42.Debating and seeking solutions, we will be be doing the job at the

:06:43. > :06:52.people of this nation elected us today. Instead we have spent three

:06:53. > :06:56.days debating a motion which has been answered categorically. The

:06:57. > :07:05.whole generation around 80% of the voting population and it doesn't

:07:06. > :07:11.mandate action. I have a great deal to cover swollen too.

:07:12. > :07:19.The SNP would be revising plans to scrap and would be revoking plans to

:07:20. > :07:26.show the Scottish funding Council and there are others that they do

:07:27. > :07:30.not. The people elected this Parliament to take these actions and

:07:31. > :07:37.to sort out the challenges in this country. They did not expect to be

:07:38. > :07:41.back in a divisive and unpleasant referendum and didn't expect it's

:07:42. > :07:48.because Alex Salmond said in my opinion this is once of a generation

:07:49. > :07:53.opportunity for Scotland. Yes he did, the Oxford English dictionary

:07:54. > :07:58.defines as 30 years as a generation. The First Minister ruled out a

:07:59. > :08:03.second referendum and stated that could not be another than to the

:08:04. > :08:08.majority of Scots were persuaded. SNP said the support for

:08:09. > :08:13.independence said support would have to stay over 60% for long term but

:08:14. > :08:17.opinion has shifted. We mustn't airbrush what the people new in 2014

:08:18. > :08:26.that a referendum was likely to happen and the outcome of Brexit was

:08:27. > :08:32.always possible. People voted to stay in the UK. They knew what they

:08:33. > :08:37.were voting for in 2014 and 2016 and voted against separation and for a

:08:38. > :08:44.minority government in Scotland. Another referendum was not what they

:08:45. > :08:49.voted for. Why are we having this debate in the context of a myriad of

:08:50. > :08:55.social differences. After many years ago this was devolved. Distraction,

:08:56. > :09:00.diversion, more flags, more rhetoric and maybe no one will notice that

:09:01. > :09:04.the SNP have not passed the actor over a year. The Prime Minister in

:09:05. > :09:14.the UK Government are going to embark on negotiations to do this

:09:15. > :09:28.and that includes Scotland. Pulling together and pulling apart. To

:09:29. > :09:33.suggest running a campaign, it was about this government trying to

:09:34. > :09:44.force this government to fight on two fronts. This gives the proposal

:09:45. > :09:48.a different problem. If the people of Scotland were to face essentially

:09:49. > :09:54.they must know what they are voting for but there is no answer on

:09:55. > :09:59.currency. There is no border with the rest of the UK or the single

:10:00. > :10:04.market, no unsigned offence other than we might build our own from

:10:05. > :10:15.scratch and the state would have a ?15 billion deficit.

:10:16. > :10:25.I'm coming onto the greens. We always knew they wanted another

:10:26. > :10:30.shot. We knew they would be back again for another go. The Green

:10:31. > :10:33.Party shows no consistency. When the people voted the greens when to them

:10:34. > :10:46.with a proposition that a million people. Mr Harvey said there is

:10:47. > :10:50.little point, neither of these things have happened and yet the

:10:51. > :10:54.greens are elected on promises that the people of Scotland promised on

:10:55. > :11:01.that that is my position and contorted themselves to suggest they

:11:02. > :11:08.would get justification. The people in Scotland who did not want this

:11:09. > :11:18.vote. It should not happen whilst there is no public consent or well.

:11:19. > :11:24.Predictability in our policies and consistency in decision-making, they

:11:25. > :11:30.won the Scottish Government, it is not too late. I say to the greens,

:11:31. > :11:35.you still have time to stick to the manifesto promise. I stay to the SNP

:11:36. > :11:40.backbenchers, it would be worth listing sometimes.

:11:41. > :11:48.Keen to give businesses certainty and to focus on the day job. It is

:11:49. > :11:52.time to take a stand. Time to stop leading it to Alex Neil to carry the

:11:53. > :11:56.burden of every pro Brexit SNP voter and those who believe it's not time

:11:57. > :12:00.for more division. Your constituents don't want a referendum. Stand up

:12:01. > :12:09.for them and spoke for the Conservative amendment. Thank you. I

:12:10. > :12:14.do have a limited amount of time in hand that I can use any

:12:15. > :12:24.interventions. Can I had Stuart McMillan. First of all I want to

:12:25. > :12:29.express my condolences to the friends and family of those affected

:12:30. > :12:33.by events in Westminster last year. -- last week. The people of Scotland

:12:34. > :12:39.are sovereign and they deserve a right to choose their future. At 5pm

:12:40. > :12:47.today they will be making that particular vote. This is Parliament,

:12:48. > :12:52.is more mature and looking forward to the next chapter in its life. We

:12:53. > :12:57.see the opportunity independence offers. For those on the pro union

:12:58. > :13:07.side, they have a different view and they are perfectly entitled to have

:13:08. > :13:12.that view. Spoke last week about a respectful debate. I couldn't agree

:13:13. > :13:15.more with those comments. Bruce Crawford's comments were echoed

:13:16. > :13:19.today by the First Minister. I would go one step further. I think both

:13:20. > :13:27.sides should put the facts, the figures and their vision onto the

:13:28. > :13:30.table for the electorate. If the European referendum campaign has got

:13:31. > :13:39.anything to show us, then I think the fact that the claim of ?350

:13:40. > :13:43.million per week for the NHS was destroyed within hours of the polls

:13:44. > :13:48.actually closing. So we should not get into that particular situation.

:13:49. > :13:51.I genuinely believe that we as a Parliament and a chamber better than

:13:52. > :13:57.that, and that we can all rise to that challenge when a referendum

:13:58. > :14:03.takes place. Two weeks ago, Graham Pearson the head of the campaign was

:14:04. > :14:07.in pressing the point of having a respectful debate. I agreed with him

:14:08. > :14:11.on that, but he then blew it if you days later by launching the

:14:12. > :14:14.ridiculous personal attack on the First Minister, just outside of the

:14:15. > :14:19.SNP conference. It clearly wasn't his finest hour but I genuinely hope

:14:20. > :14:27.he learned from that embarrassment. Richard Lochhead last week said the

:14:28. > :14:32.most pertinent thing in the debate. That was until the admission

:14:33. > :14:37.regarding Lib Dems fighting lost causes. Richard Lochhead's comments,

:14:38. > :14:44.when he stated democracy doesn't have an expiry date. I cannot agree

:14:45. > :14:48.more with my colleagues. Just because you aren't successful

:14:49. > :14:51.doesn't mean you change a bully. Tim Farron, the federal leader of

:14:52. > :14:59.billable Democrats proved this to be the case when he tweeted, when you

:15:00. > :15:06.lose a referendum, we don't give up. I also agree with Alexander Stuart.

:15:07. > :15:10.During the European debate two weeks ago, he stated no government should

:15:11. > :15:15.do all within its power to stymie debate. He also said the Scottish

:15:16. > :15:19.Government would take the threat of an independence referendum of the

:15:20. > :15:22.table. The Conservative language and amendment to date doesn't talk about

:15:23. > :15:27.removing the opportunity of a referendum altogether but in

:15:28. > :15:33.delaying it. Once again Mr Stewart let the cat out the bag. This was in

:15:34. > :15:46.a debate in January this year. He stated regarding the SNP, in this

:15:47. > :15:53.debate so far we've heard about not having it now, not having it during

:15:54. > :15:58.the Brexit discussion. But Mr Stewart earlier on this yet stated

:15:59. > :16:02.not to have it in this session. I think that speaks volumes about the

:16:03. > :16:04.Conservative Party position. The amendment doesn't talk about

:16:05. > :16:09.removing it altogether but in delaying it. That's an important

:16:10. > :16:12.fact the chamber needs to recognise. As the First Minister has stated she

:16:13. > :16:17.is willing to have that discussion with the Prime Minister. Once again

:16:18. > :16:21.showing the willingness of the SNP government and the First Minister to

:16:22. > :16:24.compromise and find common ground with the Prime Minister. There are a

:16:25. > :16:30.few other contributions I want to touch upon. I want to thank Alex

:16:31. > :16:37.Riley. He spoke of the best possible Brexit deal for Scotland. The flaw

:16:38. > :16:40.in his argument I think is in the nine months after the European

:16:41. > :16:47.referendum, we've got no idea as to what the cost of Brexit is going to

:16:48. > :16:49.be. We've got David Davis and his evidence to the Commons committee

:16:50. > :16:53.saying no analysis has been undertaken. It wasn't just

:16:54. > :16:56.embarrassing to him or the UK Government, but I would argue a

:16:57. > :17:00.dereliction of duty by the UK Government. For a UK Government

:17:01. > :17:03.ministers to state you don't need a piece of paper with numbers on a

:17:04. > :17:05.piece of paper with numbers on it to have an economic assessment is

:17:06. > :17:10.appalling. I'm sure there will be more that unites than divides Mr

:17:11. > :17:20.Reilly and myself. With no analysis by the UK Government and no

:17:21. > :17:23.discernible plan, they won't... It is the same old mantra we hear time

:17:24. > :17:26.and time again from the Conservatives in this chamber to

:17:27. > :17:30.deflect from their position of weakness on this issue. We've got a

:17:31. > :17:33.Prime Minister who doesn't help the Scottish Government Article 50 is

:17:34. > :17:37.going to be triggered this week. The Scottish Government find out about

:17:38. > :17:42.it from the media. They stand up for themselves and are castigated her

:17:43. > :17:45.having a grievance. I think that was an appalling argument to deploy but

:17:46. > :17:53.highlights the lack of substance in the conservative argument. At times

:17:54. > :17:57.I've tried to fully comprehend and understand the position unionists

:17:58. > :18:02.take for not wanting independence. Nothing can remove me from this

:18:03. > :18:04.point. For me it's a point of self-respect by taking our own

:18:05. > :18:09.decisions and standing up for ourselves. That is one of the key

:18:10. > :18:18.points to move Scotland forward. But, with that viewpoint regarding

:18:19. > :18:22.the Conservatives and the referendum, Scotland will always be

:18:23. > :18:27.hamstring and destined to never fulfil its potential. For me, the

:18:28. > :18:34.people of Scotland are sovereign and have a right to determine their

:18:35. > :18:39.future. The 15,568 people in Inverclyde having been fed from the

:18:40. > :18:49.food bank since September 2012, I want to give them a decision... You

:18:50. > :18:56.must close. And not consigned to picking up food parcels for the rest

:18:57. > :18:59.of their lives. I'm sure as members will understand, I'm utterly

:19:00. > :19:04.delighted to have the opportunity to take part in this debate. The First

:19:05. > :19:09.Minister struck an important note at the beginning where she talked about

:19:10. > :19:13.respect and recognised the significance of our democracy. I

:19:14. > :19:19.would say this. A First Minister with two full speeches in a two date

:19:20. > :19:25.debate, it has been no debate in government time on education since

:19:26. > :19:30.last October. I know we have redefined what a generation is, we

:19:31. > :19:35.have now clearly redefined what constitutes a top priority. It has

:19:36. > :19:42.been interesting to watch government backbenchers over the last couple of

:19:43. > :19:46.weeks. They have appeared to have got their Mojo back. I guess it must

:19:47. > :19:49.be easier to cheer them First Minister playing the old tunes on

:19:50. > :19:53.independence rather than suffer the discomfort of watching the Scottish

:19:54. > :19:58.Government failing on education, health, the economy. How much better

:19:59. > :20:02.to look to an imagined world way beyond us, rather than confront the

:20:03. > :20:06.tough consequences of the choices of their own government on the lives of

:20:07. > :20:11.ordinary people. Cutting budgets and resisting the use of the powers it

:20:12. > :20:18.has to make a difference to people's lives. Can I say respectfully to Ben

:20:19. > :20:24.MacPherson, who says we are all civic nationalists now. Speak for

:20:25. > :20:28.yourself. Don't speak for me. Don't redefine all those who don't agree

:20:29. > :20:34.with you as having some kind of force consciousness. I am not a

:20:35. > :20:38.nationalist and I will not have my politics defined by the

:20:39. > :20:44.Constitution. I will have it defined by inequality. Let us be charitable,

:20:45. > :20:49.let us assume that most of us, indeed all of us, our serious

:20:50. > :20:53.thoughtful people who want to do our best for the communities we

:20:54. > :20:58.represent. I understand Brexit troubles many here, and way beyond

:20:59. > :21:02.the chamber, and that the sense of uncertainty and feeling of shock at

:21:03. > :21:07.the results bring with them a desire for action. I do say to the Scottish

:21:08. > :21:13.Government, you shouldn't simply seek to recruit that concern to

:21:14. > :21:17.their own cause. Many a remain is as fervent in their desire to stay in

:21:18. > :21:22.the United Kingdom as in the EU. I get there are concerns about Brexit.

:21:23. > :21:29.To paint Europe as some kind of golden Citadel democracy is to deny

:21:30. > :21:33.entirely the concerns of 1 million voters in this country about its

:21:34. > :21:38.inflexibility and bureaucracy, and its lack of accountability. It is

:21:39. > :21:41.true that while we have debated endlessly the potential consequence

:21:42. > :21:47.of Brexit, there is no doubt in my mind that many on the SNP benchers

:21:48. > :21:53.saw it not as a problem but as an opportunity to override the once in

:21:54. > :21:59.a generation vote just two and a half years ago. We know that for

:22:00. > :22:02.many, Brexit has been a convenient proxy for the Scottish

:22:03. > :22:10.constitutional debates and the opportunity to overturn a vote they

:22:11. > :22:16.have neither accepted nor respected. Will the member access that when the

:22:17. > :22:21.Brexit referendum took place that many of us on this side of the

:22:22. > :22:25.chamber were every bit as upset, and more upset, and many people across

:22:26. > :22:29.the country? That result was the second worst result I've ever had in

:22:30. > :22:35.my life and I've been defeated in elections quite a few times. People

:22:36. > :22:41.are concerned about Brexit right across the UK. It's not something

:22:42. > :22:47.unique to Scottish people. For me there is a concern in this debate,

:22:48. > :22:50.we have moved on from why there should be a referendum to the

:22:51. > :22:55.process for securing it, so we can get enraged about refusing a

:22:56. > :22:58.referendum without troubling ourselves with having to justify why

:22:59. > :23:02.it is needed in the first place. We should guard against being

:23:03. > :23:07.conditioned to a sense of its inevitability. Why does that matter?

:23:08. > :23:12.The fact is the case hasn't been made. First, the cause and

:23:13. > :23:17.explanation shift. We hear is so we can stay in the EU. Or it's because

:23:18. > :23:27.we want to be in Europe but not in the Common fisheries policy. We can

:23:28. > :23:34.negotiate on timing. These are manifestations of an end goal,

:23:35. > :23:37.hunting around for a principle. This SNP should be honest, they just want

:23:38. > :23:44.a referendum and if it weren't on this it would be something else. In

:23:45. > :23:50.the rush, it is remarkable the proposition is no more solid than it

:23:51. > :23:54.ever was. A time of insecurity, it is simply astonishing to see a

:23:55. > :23:58.proposition represented, so ill thought through, on the currency, on

:23:59. > :24:02.the euro, on the deficit. This isn't the action of a government serious

:24:03. > :24:07.in providing certainty in these troubled times. We are told the SNP

:24:08. > :24:12.has a mandate, almost an obligation as a consequence of its manifesto

:24:13. > :24:16.commitment. One might take the view this is a slightly tenuous argument.

:24:17. > :24:22.Even if we accept it, the reality is the government has other competing,

:24:23. > :24:25.and I did consent, equally compelling mandates on education,

:24:26. > :24:34.poverty, health and creating a fairer economy. But these must be

:24:35. > :24:38.put on ice while the SNP pursues its ultimate priority. It is evident

:24:39. > :24:43.some mandates are more important than others. We already know there

:24:44. > :24:47.has been no education debate in government since last October, even

:24:48. > :24:52.then that was about the impact of Brexit. When Parliament voted to

:24:53. > :24:55.condemn the failure of SNP in action on education, the will of the

:24:56. > :25:01.Parliament remained remarkably unheard. No debate, no determination

:25:02. > :25:07.that the will of the Parliament will prevail. If we didn't already know

:25:08. > :25:13.it, it is laid bare here. Some will solve the Parliament are more equal

:25:14. > :25:18.than others. I am unable to continue because of the time that's left. Can

:25:19. > :25:22.I just say, in my view, what we have now got is an excuse, and

:25:23. > :25:27.opportunity, to argue for a referendum. A referendum, even if it

:25:28. > :25:36.were held, even if people had the referendum, would not resolve the

:25:37. > :25:39.debate. Why bother with this once-in-a-lifetime malarkey. I would

:25:40. > :25:43.recognise if there is another referendum and if we fight to stay

:25:44. > :25:48.in the UK, there will still be those who would argue another referendum.

:25:49. > :25:53.I say this to the SNP, stop developing the narrative, stop...

:25:54. > :26:03.You must close. Get on with the day job and if you do that, we'll

:26:04. > :26:06.support you. I've been so disappointed at times by the

:26:07. > :26:11.language used by some across this chamber during this debate. Language

:26:12. > :26:15.has been weaponised using words like battle, fight and divisive. I've

:26:16. > :26:18.heard accusations of arrogance, slurs and rabid nationalism.

:26:19. > :26:31.The language of threat is once again being used, threats being made to

:26:32. > :26:37.Scottish trade, threats about pensions and the shameful use of the

:26:38. > :26:41.word foreigner. Used to fear division when an exist. None of this

:26:42. > :26:46.helps fostering a mature factual discussion on the future of the

:26:47. > :26:51.country. As leaders in our own communities we need to be mindful of

:26:52. > :26:56.this and of avoiding tribalism. Debate is yes. The passionate about

:26:57. > :27:04.your beliefs yes but be respectful to others and in doing so allow the

:27:05. > :27:06.people their voice and their choice. This is fundamentally about our

:27:07. > :27:13.right of self-determination and the starting point has to be that

:27:14. > :27:20.Scotland as a nation has that right. Scotland is not extinguished as a

:27:21. > :27:24.nation, we have an absolute right to choose the path our nation takes,

:27:25. > :27:30.particularly when we're taken down a path we have no wish to follow. This

:27:31. > :27:34.is not an argument about who love their country the rice. This is an

:27:35. > :27:40.argument about choice, about flirting the Scottish people decide

:27:41. > :27:43.the future of their nation. That is democracy and that is the people

:27:44. > :27:47.exercising their democratic right regardless of how they vote. How can

:27:48. > :27:54.anyone in the chamber deny the Scottish people per se and still

:27:55. > :28:00.call themselves democratic. Some parties in this chamber... No thank

:28:01. > :28:05.you... This although oppose Brexit, in the wake of the leave votes they

:28:06. > :28:09.supported that aim to protect our relationship with Europe by staying

:28:10. > :28:13.within the single market. They now say we must just suck it up and do

:28:14. > :28:17.as we're told. Wyatt and at what point does doing what is in the best

:28:18. > :28:23.interest of Scotland come into the equation? And who decides what is in

:28:24. > :28:27.our best interest, the Tories who like Labour and the Liberal

:28:28. > :28:32.Democrats have a sole MP at Westminster? Or perhaps Philip

:28:33. > :28:35.Rycroft, and an selected senior servants who will be the person in

:28:36. > :28:44.the UK Brexit department deciding which powers comeback. Where is the

:28:45. > :28:48.democracy in that? Indeed where is the mandate. Those who shout the

:28:49. > :28:54.loudest about mandate and the legitimacy to call for a section 30

:28:55. > :29:00.order are those whose mandate is to not bear scrutiny. The Scottish

:29:01. > :29:03.Government mandate is irrefutable. The SNP was elected on a clear

:29:04. > :29:08.commitment that it would review the constitutional arrangements and if

:29:09. > :29:11.necessary, call for the people of Scotland to have a choice if there

:29:12. > :29:15.was a material change of circumstances. That change is upon

:29:16. > :29:19.us and it is clear that in the interests of Scotland and the

:29:20. > :29:25.current process that it is being ignored. A hard Brexit will damage

:29:26. > :29:30.the economy. It would damage the global perception as an inclusive

:29:31. > :29:36.and forward-thinking nation. If this Parliament votes by a majority today

:29:37. > :29:39.to ask for this to legislate for an independence referendum then the UK

:29:40. > :29:42.Government would be ill-advised to block what would be a clear mandate

:29:43. > :29:48.to let the people of Scotland choose their future. Let stand back from

:29:49. > :29:53.the emotive language and look at the cold hard facts. For instance in the

:29:54. > :29:58.last referendum we were told if we voted no contention to be safe. Tell

:29:59. > :30:03.that to the women who now have to wait years long before their

:30:04. > :30:08.pensions. Tell that to those who make after work to the age of 70

:30:09. > :30:15.before being able to take their pension or tell it to the pensioners

:30:16. > :30:19.facing cuts after 2020. We were told if we voted note that the shipyards

:30:20. > :30:23.would be safe but the orders have been cut and they are behind

:30:24. > :30:27.schedule. We were told if we voted no then the tax offices would be

:30:28. > :30:35.safe. Tell it in my constituency in East Kilbride. We were told voting

:30:36. > :30:39.no would deliver the nearest thing to federalism only for it to be

:30:40. > :30:50.watered down with Labour opposing powers that they have no hope of

:30:51. > :30:55.delivering. And of course we were told if we voted no we would be able

:30:56. > :31:00.to keep our membership and we face the prospect of Scotland being taken

:31:01. > :31:05.out against her will. Presiding officer as I said Scotland is a

:31:06. > :31:11.nation not a region, not a province, not a territory. As a nation it has

:31:12. > :31:14.a right to seek interest and have relationships with other nations,

:31:15. > :31:18.especially in the current circumstances. It is also right that

:31:19. > :31:25.the decision is taken outlined by the Government and that the

:31:26. > :31:33.referendum will be made in Scotland. We will have that conversation and I

:31:34. > :31:39.look forward to that conversation being engaging and uplifting like

:31:40. > :31:44.the previous one, my hope is that a new conversation can come without

:31:45. > :31:47.recourse to threat or fear. We know status quo will not be in the

:31:48. > :31:52.upcoming referendum and we will choose between two futures. One we

:31:53. > :31:56.will see which would be damaging an isolationist which will be ours

:31:57. > :31:59.alone to fashion. Sovereignty lies of the people and I trust the people

:32:00. > :32:12.to make an informed choice which will see Scotland saying stop the

:32:13. > :32:15.world we want to get on. Any cook will tell you that the correct

:32:16. > :32:20.ingredients and the correct timing are essential to get a souffl to

:32:21. > :32:24.rise, get either wrong and the whole thing will collapse. In what

:32:25. > :32:28.increasingly has all the characteristics of the

:32:29. > :32:33.miscalculation of the devolution area, Nicola Sturgeon's gambit in

:32:34. > :32:38.calling for a second referendum has been met with the loudest raspberry

:32:39. > :32:45.from every corner of Scotland since. The result is the greatest collapsed

:32:46. > :32:49.souffl of our time. The second referendum has until now bend the

:32:50. > :32:59.default sanction of every SNP grievance. It's a threat are not in

:33:00. > :33:08.action. Like every deterrent it is only successful if not triggered but

:33:09. > :33:14.a fortnight ago and it has changed a lot since the First Minister planned

:33:15. > :33:17.soon. If there was a surprise of timing, just three days later the

:33:18. > :33:21.inherent hollowness of the demand was laid bare when the Prime

:33:22. > :33:27.Minister calmly responded now is not the time. Opinion polls over that

:33:28. > :33:34.reflected no increase and support for either independent or four any

:33:35. > :33:40.second referendum. The leader of the SNP in Aberdeen people in shops and

:33:41. > :33:46.bus queues and homes and restaurants to which Ben MacPherson referred,

:33:47. > :33:50.remained unmoved. Like the Prime Minister, opinion polls confirmed

:33:51. > :33:55.people in Scotland have likewise concluded now was not the time.

:33:56. > :34:00.Indeed measured against Nicola Sturgeon of a clear majority demand

:34:01. > :34:04.sustained over many months, it is difficult to imagine when the people

:34:05. > :34:09.of Scotland will be persuaded that we have again arrived at that time.

:34:10. > :34:17.In our speech in this chamber, Nicola Sturgeon generously

:34:18. > :34:21.entertained MSP 's two her address. Whilst it may have moved many to

:34:22. > :34:26.tears, no glass eyes worked elsewhere. Scotland was left cold

:34:27. > :34:32.and unimpressed. No new arguments were supported, just the same

:34:33. > :34:36.Etruria old repertoire of grievance from 2014. By now we need barely one

:34:37. > :34:40.third of Scots thought a further referendum was a priority or

:34:41. > :34:45.responding to the failing domestic record of the SNP government. Nicola

:34:46. > :34:51.Sturgeon asserts Westminster will be bound by her manifesto, just that

:34:52. > :34:55.she. Trident in the same campaign. The pledge to hold a second

:34:56. > :35:00.referendum is increasingly seen from what it was. A pledge to deliver

:35:01. > :35:06.something which the ministers not have power or authority. She seeks

:35:07. > :35:13.comfort in the majority losing 2016 manifesto as a justification. The

:35:14. > :35:18.manifesto which renders the SNP MPs elected on the 2015 manifesto, in a

:35:19. > :35:25.moment, without any mandate to combat. After all the MPs were

:35:26. > :35:32.elected where Nicola Sturgeon said independence is not an issue. He has

:35:33. > :35:38.tried to intervene and has a speech coming up so give him is moment... I

:35:39. > :35:44.thank him for that generous introduction. To the manifesto and

:35:45. > :35:49.commitment, there was a commitment from the Conservative manifesto, the

:35:50. > :35:55.same which promised an EU referendum, to commit to the single

:35:56. > :36:00.market, for over 74% of people voted to stay in a single market, can you

:36:01. > :36:04.outlined to the chamber what actions he has taken to realise the

:36:05. > :36:08.democratic wish's what the people of East would did was they turned out

:36:09. > :36:14.in record numbers in September 2014 and voted for Scotland to remain in

:36:15. > :36:19.the United Kingdom. And in June 2015 with one of the ten highest margins

:36:20. > :36:23.anywhere in the UK, my constituents voted for the United Kingdom to

:36:24. > :36:31.remain in the European Union and they lost. My constituents and I

:36:32. > :36:40.respect the results, Mr Arthur and the Scottish party respect the

:36:41. > :36:46.judgment. The first ministers's compromise mandate rests on an

:36:47. > :36:49.election which uniquely remain in office despite losing majority,

:36:50. > :37:00.something no Prime Minister has sought to doing over 100 years.

:37:01. > :37:06.Nicola Sturgeon says West Minister must abide by any voter night it has

:37:07. > :37:21.been repeatedly demonstrated for receipt after that defeat. Earlier

:37:22. > :37:34.this afternoon, by the end of the Easter recess. ... Once again it is

:37:35. > :37:41.a case of the First Minister saying do what I say, not what I do. In

:37:42. > :37:46.2014 the referendum which took place finally saw the support of 92 people

:37:47. > :37:50.for its being held and the support of every SNP from all five parties

:37:51. > :37:55.of the Scottish parliament representing every shade of opinion.

:37:56. > :38:00.Today barely a third supported it and only two of the five parties do

:38:01. > :38:03.so. Neither the political all-party consent exists. There has been no

:38:04. > :38:14.significant number of those who voted no. In the 15 days since.

:38:15. > :38:19.Opinion has shifted that the First Minister has not imagined her plans.

:38:20. > :38:28.It is the First Minister's Redheugh Bridge which drives this effort to

:38:29. > :38:36.kick-start a campaigner Scotland. We had resolute voice and we spoke and

:38:37. > :38:41.said no and we meant it. When the arrangements are transparent and

:38:42. > :38:44.until there is evidence of public support amongst Scots for a

:38:45. > :38:51.referendum then there will be no second referendum. The people in

:38:52. > :39:03.Scotland can trust us, we can and we will deliver. I called Tom after. --

:39:04. > :39:07.Tom after. Thank you presiding Officer, may I express my

:39:08. > :39:11.condolences to the victims and my solidarity with the survivors of the

:39:12. > :39:16.attacks last week. Presiding Officer, it is a privilege to

:39:17. > :39:20.contribute to this debate on the choice for Scotland. The debate

:39:21. > :39:27.fuelled by competing passions which has at point exceeded the scope.

:39:28. > :39:30.That is not whether Scotland should be independence but rather the

:39:31. > :39:34.question we face is whether this Parliament believes the people of

:39:35. > :39:38.Scotland to the sovereign and endowed with the right to determine

:39:39. > :39:46.their own future. I believe the people of Scotland to the sovereign,

:39:47. > :39:51.it is consistent with people who live in Scotland. It is a belief

:39:52. > :39:59.that the people and they alone have the right to determine this. It is a

:40:00. > :40:05.belief shared by many. It is a belief who legitimate Sue was

:40:06. > :40:08.accepted by governments. However the actions of Theresa May and the

:40:09. > :40:16.Scottish Conservatives have compromised that. The Tory amendment

:40:17. > :40:19.is the only amendment that seeks to remove any acknowledgement of the

:40:20. > :40:26.sovereign right of the Scottish people from the Government for the

:40:27. > :40:30.promotion. Will the Supreme Court reconfirm the legally supported a

:40:31. > :40:37.state unless. The Tory response to this result and their refusal to

:40:38. > :40:41.consider a differential settlement demonstrates the Tory belief on

:40:42. > :40:46.matters of fundamental for the importance to the governance of

:40:47. > :40:51.Scotland. The will of the Scottish people is subordinate to the will of

:40:52. > :40:55.the UK Government. This shows a fundamental change, not only in the

:40:56. > :40:57.circumstances of 2014 out of decades of a shared understanding of the

:40:58. > :41:06.relationship. Theresa May told people of Scotland

:41:07. > :41:11.at the UK is a partnership of equals. However, a partnership where

:41:12. > :41:14.one partner forces another into actions against their will is no

:41:15. > :41:19.longer a relationship of equals and not a partnership. The UK

:41:20. > :41:23.Government's intransigence towards Scottish aspirations should be

:41:24. > :41:27.deeply disturbing for any Democrat. It suggests they would seek to

:41:28. > :41:34.diminish Scotland from the status of a nation. In the referenda of 2014

:41:35. > :41:39.and 2016, the people of Scotland chose not to endorse fundamental

:41:40. > :41:42.change. Yet as a consequence of the actions of the UK Government, change

:41:43. > :41:48.of the most profound kind is coming to Scotland. All that we can now do

:41:49. > :41:55.is determine the nature of that change. Should Scotland remain an

:41:56. > :42:00.open and outward looking nation and chart its own course? Or should we

:42:01. > :42:04.permit ourselves to be locked into an increasingly insular, intolerant

:42:05. > :42:07.and backwards looking Britain? Only the sovereign people of Scotland can

:42:08. > :42:14.make a decision of that magnitude. But choice is not for politicians or

:42:15. > :42:19.parliaments to make, it's for the people of Scotland alone. Before

:42:20. > :42:27.concluding I wish to make to specific points. Namely timing and

:42:28. > :42:31.the fear of the vision. The timetable set out for the referendum

:42:32. > :42:36.is predicated on the UK Government and the EU's chief Brexit

:42:37. > :42:40.negotiators assessment of when the negotiations will be concluded ahead

:42:41. > :42:45.of ratification. A referendum between autumn 2018 and spring of

:42:46. > :42:50.2019 will empower people to make an informed choice on Scotland's

:42:51. > :42:54.future. Crucially this will be before any regulatory divergences

:42:55. > :42:58.between the EU single market and the UK can take place, which would

:42:59. > :43:07.compromise Scotland's existing fulfilment. Any attempt by the UK

:43:08. > :43:09.Government to delay a referendum beyond the proposed timescale will

:43:10. > :43:13.be seen as cynical and grossly undemocratic. Not only by people in

:43:14. > :43:20.Scotland but by our European partners at a time when the UK will

:43:21. > :43:23.be relying on the goodwill of small independent European nations.

:43:24. > :43:27.Finally, on the issue of division, we must not allow the debate to

:43:28. > :43:32.descend into recriminations and personal attacks. Those of us to

:43:33. > :43:35.seek to persuade a majority to choose independence we must

:43:36. > :43:38.understand and show respect our fellow Scot to take a different

:43:39. > :43:43.view. There are many who look upon the prospect of a referendum with

:43:44. > :43:49.anxiety, fear and even anger. These are our fellow patriotically to and

:43:50. > :43:54.with genuinely held views, beliefs and principles. They aren't

:43:55. > :43:57.misinformed individuals who have yet to be persuaded. Just as one side

:43:58. > :44:02.has a right to make a case, so the other has the right to reject and be

:44:03. > :44:05.treated with courtesy and respect. Regardless of the views of

:44:06. > :44:11.Scotland's future, our differences are far outweighed by what we have

:44:12. > :44:14.in common. Those who oppose independence have equal

:44:15. > :44:18.responsibilities to resist cynically employing inflammatory language for

:44:19. > :44:24.political gain. Such techniques are a false economy for which all sides

:44:25. > :44:29.inevitably pay. A robust and passionate debate is a hallmark for

:44:30. > :44:34.civilised society and a dynamic democracy. To describe such a

:44:35. > :44:39.process as fratricidal conflict does all politics a disservice. That us

:44:40. > :44:43.not to base ourselves, our democracy and our country with such a

:44:44. > :44:47.pernicious approach to politics. Rather, let us have a great debate

:44:48. > :44:54.equal to the hopes and aspirations of the people of Scotland. On that,

:44:55. > :45:05.surely we are all united. APPLAUSE Thank you. Everyone who has taken

:45:06. > :45:14.part in this debate last week and today should be in the chamber of

:45:15. > :45:18.the closing speeches. I believe in self for Scotland within the UK,

:45:19. > :45:23.I've always believed in the sovereign true of the Scottish

:45:24. > :45:29.people. I thank Ben MacPherson for not calling me a Unionist. In every

:45:30. > :45:34.debate I've ever been in that's what I've been called. Self-determination

:45:35. > :45:37.allows me to say that I am a socialist first, an

:45:38. > :45:43.internationalist, a feminist and a trade unionist. I refuse to be

:45:44. > :45:47.defined by the Constitution. I will respect everyone's views and the

:45:48. > :45:54.outcome of the vote tonight. But I will continue to argue against an

:45:55. > :45:58.independence referendum as Scotland's answer to Brexit. I

:45:59. > :46:03.believe in the vision that I have the UK and I will passionately

:46:04. > :46:07.continue to argue for that. Because I believe that the people

:46:08. > :46:14.predominantly and including many yes voters, are not with the SNP on the

:46:15. > :46:20.self-made push for a second referendum. Nor are the people with

:46:21. > :46:25.the SNP on the timing of it. In my experience, even in the last few

:46:26. > :46:28.days in the local government elections, I've spoken to people who

:46:29. > :46:34.are committed to independence. They tell me they do not believe that now

:46:35. > :46:38.is the time and they do not believe that, until they see the full

:46:39. > :46:44.implications of Brexit, that it is fair to put that question to them.

:46:45. > :46:50.The country is nervous and the country is cautious. They are

:46:51. > :46:55.cautious because the rise in the cost of living, the prospects of

:46:56. > :46:59.separating from two unions at the same time, without a clear promise

:47:00. > :47:10.that it would be an independent Scotland in the European Union is on

:47:11. > :47:14.offer. The First Minister said people would know their choices in

:47:15. > :47:19.two years' time. I do not believe they will. Alex Neil last week set

:47:20. > :47:25.out to see that the terms of Brexit won't be fully known, and the terms

:47:26. > :47:28.and implications of international agreements will take some time to

:47:29. > :47:45.assess and understand. The long-term outlook for the UK

:47:46. > :47:50.will take some time to assess the full implications of Brexit. So I

:47:51. > :47:57.argue a choice is only fair if people have a clear idea about what

:47:58. > :48:06.the prospects are, and on what basis an independent Scotland is

:48:07. > :48:18.predicated. Claire Haughey talks about the Waspi women. Andrew Wilson

:48:19. > :48:22.leading the great commission was at least honest enough to say that

:48:23. > :48:27.there might be up to a 10-year period recovery. Without that

:48:28. > :48:34.clarity it's not a fair choice to put to the people. I'm glad at least

:48:35. > :48:39.one member who I know will be voting differently from me tonight

:48:40. > :48:43.recognises the 2014 referendum had elements of deep acrimony and it was

:48:44. > :48:47.difficult for many families who were split different ways. It's not a

:48:48. > :48:51.reason in itself to argue against the independence referendum but I

:48:52. > :48:54.think recognition of that fact has to be something we consider. What

:48:55. > :49:00.astonishes me most about the logic of the SNP position in the last few

:49:01. > :49:07.days is I do accept that as a mandate, I accept that there is a

:49:08. > :49:12.material situation which has brought about the argument at least. But the

:49:13. > :49:19.astonishing inconsistency leaves me quite staggered. If the material

:49:20. > :49:23.breach is the fact that Scotland has been dragged out of Europe against

:49:24. > :49:28.its will, then the logic of that must mean that the question to the

:49:29. > :49:31.people on whether they want an independent Scotland, has to be an

:49:32. > :49:38.independent Scotland within Europe. Clearly in the last few days, that

:49:39. > :49:42.isn't on offer. So I don't really... I think you undermine your own case

:49:43. > :49:49.by arguing there is a mandate when you aren't going to put that to the

:49:50. > :49:54.people. I'm grateful to the member forgiving way. Shortly after the

:49:55. > :49:57.result of the EU referendum, the members leader in this Parliament

:49:58. > :50:02.said that people had voted to remain in the UK and in the EU and that was

:50:03. > :50:07.what the Scottish Labour Party wanted to secure happening. Can the

:50:08. > :50:11.member give us any other route to EU membership other than putting this

:50:12. > :50:17.question back into the hands of the voters? Is there another path to

:50:18. > :50:22.full membership? As the member knows, the argument I'm making is

:50:23. > :50:27.that surely you would want the question to be put to the people

:50:28. > :50:31.that independence in Europe was the only logical extension of the

:50:32. > :50:36.mandate you claim to have. The biggest mandate that you have, that

:50:37. > :50:42.the SNP has in this Parliament, is to reduce child poverty which last

:50:43. > :50:47.week was up to 4%. I plead with the front bench, I plead with the First

:50:48. > :50:52.Minister. Please, whatever happens tonight, do not give us two years of

:50:53. > :50:55.this. Recognise there is a job to do, and in some of that job we will

:50:56. > :51:00.be with you. But please do not give us two years of this. The people

:51:01. > :51:08.demand something else. Thank you. APPLAUSE

:51:09. > :51:13.Four minutes please. I realise time is short. I would like to

:51:14. > :51:17.concentrate on four areas. My experience of the 2014 referendum

:51:18. > :51:22.doesn't follow the joyful experience some seem to portray. Whilst there

:51:23. > :51:28.was political engagement, there was an undercurrent of pent-up

:51:29. > :51:37.frustration in those who sought to divide. They saw two dozen and 14 as

:51:38. > :51:41.a once-in-a-lifetime opportunity, an opportunity to gain independence.

:51:42. > :51:46.But clearly that, along with many of the facts promoted in Scotland's

:51:47. > :51:50.future, wasn't quite true either. In May 2016 I was privileged to be

:51:51. > :51:55.elected to this Parliament and I arrived ready to start work, full of

:51:56. > :52:02.enthusiasm. Ready to tackle the issues. Problems with the NHS,

:52:03. > :52:05.problems with schools, issues with infrastructure projects,

:52:06. > :52:09.dysfunctional national computer projects, and the personal concerns

:52:10. > :52:13.and worries of constituents in the Highlands and Islands. That's what

:52:14. > :52:16.I'm doing, I'm giving the day job and I'm passionate about those.

:52:17. > :52:20.That's the reason why we should all be looking at them, because it is

:52:21. > :52:24.the reason we were elected to this place. I'm amazed that there are

:52:25. > :52:29.some within this Parliament to think independence will solve all of these

:52:30. > :52:35.issues, thus tromping everything else. It doesn't. It won't, and it

:52:36. > :52:38.never will. What will make a difference is tackling the issues.

:52:39. > :52:43.I'll accept the invitation of the First Minister to judge her and her

:52:44. > :52:46.government on their performance on education. Ten years down the line

:52:47. > :52:51.and almost one year into this Parliament, and we have to ask what

:52:52. > :52:54.difference have you made? This government seems distracted by

:52:55. > :53:00.previous decisions and concentrates too much on trying to distract

:53:01. > :53:04.others to hide the failures of their own administration. Here is my

:53:05. > :53:10.message. There are five things that won't make Scotland better.

:53:11. > :53:12.Disarray, destruction, discord, disharmony and ultimately division.

:53:13. > :53:18.What will make the difference is getting on with the day job with

:53:19. > :53:23.diligence, drive and devotion. That is what is needed to ensure we

:53:24. > :53:28.deliver for Scotland. I'd like to talk about a self evident truth

:53:29. > :53:37.which has been reinforced to me in every job I've done. Success is

:53:38. > :53:42.seldom achieved by one person. Success is achieved by teens, teens

:53:43. > :53:48.that support each other. Teams that no when the going gets tough they

:53:49. > :53:53.can stand together. Teams that know when somebody has got their back.

:53:54. > :53:58.Teams who went ask the help know their neighbours will come. These

:53:59. > :54:01.are the cornerstones that make successes. Whether you are on the

:54:02. > :54:06.battlefields or in the office. That's what the union brings. As one

:54:07. > :54:11.of my Sergeant majors constantly reminded me, by sharing the pain you

:54:12. > :54:16.share the game. Scotland benefits from being part of the UK whether

:54:17. > :54:21.it's in defence contracts, bailing out the backs, helping the oil

:54:22. > :54:27.industry or ensuring the pain of economic terms are set across the

:54:28. > :54:36.whole union. We are better together. Now, there are some that think that

:54:37. > :54:42.standing together with other parties is wrong. In the 2014 referendum, I

:54:43. > :54:46.stood beside Liberal Democrats and Labour activists. I even stood

:54:47. > :54:53.beside Mr Finlay who campaigned in Inverness. He and I must be

:54:54. > :55:00.politically at polar opposites. Let me suggest today, that if you took

:55:01. > :55:03.the majority of our political beliefs, put them in a jar, shook

:55:04. > :55:11.them up, they would still curdle and separate. But by promoting things

:55:12. > :55:15.that we do best together, and standing by the union, we can

:55:16. > :55:20.actually help Scotland, and I'm proud to say I will stand behind

:55:21. > :55:28.anyone... Please conclude. I support the motion. I will always stand

:55:29. > :55:32.shoulder to shoulder with those who seek to protect the union. I'm happy

:55:33. > :55:40.to continue to serve Scotland as I have done in the past. Thank you. I

:55:41. > :55:47.moved to closing speeches. Eight minutes, please. I said at the

:55:48. > :55:52.beginning of this debate that the country is divided. This is an

:55:53. > :55:56.undisputed fact, it is divided. While I see the First Minister

:55:57. > :56:03.shaking her head already, obviously it's not that undisputed.

:56:04. > :56:12.The duty of the first ministers should be to heal division, not

:56:13. > :56:15.laugh at it or exasperated. And fortunately the first ministers

:56:16. > :56:20.making a bad situation worse. It is clear that by any and all measures,

:56:21. > :56:24.most people do not want to be faced with another independent referendum.

:56:25. > :56:28.We have heard that from contributions right across the

:56:29. > :56:35.chamber. We had a referendum 2.5 years ago that was fair, legal and

:56:36. > :56:38.with a clear result. Both the UK and the Scottish Government accepted the

:56:39. > :56:45.results or so we were led to believe. The Liberal Democrats do

:56:46. > :56:50.not expect nationalists to give up support for a separate Scotland.

:56:51. > :56:56.Just as we don't give up for our support in the UK in Europe. What we

:56:57. > :57:02.should expect however is the Scottish Government honours the

:57:03. > :57:10.signature that Nicola Sturgeon put on the Edinburgh agreement. Can he

:57:11. > :57:18.then explained why the Liberal Democrats are posing a second

:57:19. > :57:25.referendum's the referendum we had 2.5 years ago was supposed to close

:57:26. > :57:29.this issue down. It hasn't done so has it. The vote who had just

:57:30. > :57:34.recently has opened up the whole process of Brexit up and the people

:57:35. > :57:43.of to make a decision on that rather than the Conservative cabinet. The

:57:44. > :57:47.First Minister knows that. We were elected on a manifesto that said the

:57:48. > :57:51.voters who would vote against any move for the independence referendum

:57:52. > :57:56.that is exactly what will do. We are having this debate because Nicola

:57:57. > :58:02.Sturgeon says that she won't support of the Scottish people for her

:58:03. > :58:08.unilateral demand that the UK Prime Minister gives her the power on her

:58:09. > :58:12.own timescale. I've no doubt she will win the vote tonight, it is

:58:13. > :58:16.obvious thanks to the Greens and I did mention them. She has the

:58:17. > :58:34.numbers but she has not won the argument. I think one of the most

:58:35. > :58:38.useful contributions. He asked the First Minister a series of questions

:58:39. > :58:47.and learn gave her the opportunity to intervene. They called for the

:58:48. > :58:50.First Minister to respond to the questions, not only the First

:58:51. > :58:56.Minister that every Member of the front bench. They kept their heads

:58:57. > :59:05.down and buried and would respond. That was the turning point. Unlike

:59:06. > :59:14.the last time the First Minister does not have the country with her

:59:15. > :59:20.and I have to say Alex Neil was the other, his contribution was

:59:21. > :59:25.excellent. He had not had the courage -- he had the courage alone

:59:26. > :59:28.to argue that an independence referendum should be separate from

:59:29. > :59:36.any re-entry into the European Union. He was honest. I thought he

:59:37. > :59:41.spoke extremely well but he did shoot the Fox at the First Minister

:59:42. > :59:49.site running. Why does he not have the country with her? Because she

:59:50. > :59:55.has shown she is leading the campaign to secede from the UK

:59:56. > :00:02.rather than run a benefit for the people of Scotland. What I found

:00:03. > :00:08.astounding is that it must acknowledge the will of the Scottish

:00:09. > :00:12.people. I say that but First Minister must've had a conversion on

:00:13. > :00:15.the road to Damascus. Nicola Sturgeon said the will of the

:00:16. > :00:21.Scottish parliament must be adhered to. Is this the same Nicola Sturgeon

:00:22. > :00:27.though who has repeatedly ignore the will of the Scottish Parliament five

:00:28. > :00:35.times in the last ten months. Fiona Hyslop on the BBC live debate denied

:00:36. > :00:43.this was so. For the sake of accuracy, five votes to date have

:00:44. > :00:50.been completely ignored by the Scottish Government. On the 1st of

:00:51. > :01:00.June, the 20th of September, the Parliament extracted the Government

:01:01. > :01:07.to do so. Parliament instructed the Government to repeal the behaviour,

:01:08. > :01:12.any action? No. On the 18th of January, what action have we heard

:01:13. > :01:18.to date's nothing. On the 1st of March save the Scottish funding

:01:19. > :01:20.Council was ignored. Parliament said we wanted action but they have

:01:21. > :01:29.studiously ignored their instructions. So much for the will

:01:30. > :01:33.of the Scottish Parliament. I thank the Member for giving way. Will you

:01:34. > :01:36.say it is up to the opposition parties if they are against this

:01:37. > :01:43.bill to bring forward their own Bill? The will of Parliament I

:01:44. > :01:49.thought needed to be upheld. Now in the business bureau I warned the SNP

:01:50. > :02:01.minister that they couldn't keep ignoring the will of Parliament on

:02:02. > :02:04.the vote she keeps losing. When the Government repeatedly ignores the

:02:05. > :02:12.will of Parliament they expect the Prime Minister to jump to it. Either

:02:13. > :02:16.this is the height of hypocrisy or in the last two weeks she has seen

:02:17. > :02:20.the light on the road to Damascus was unfortunately I don't think the

:02:21. > :02:26.First Minister is anything like St Paul after all. She has decided that

:02:27. > :02:32.this is her opportunity to try again to achieve her ambition. Never mind

:02:33. > :02:37.the will of Parliament. No one should be surprised the way this

:02:38. > :02:40.debate turned out. The SNP and crew members will vote the motions

:02:41. > :02:48.through and would be opposed by the Liberal Democrats. One thing is

:02:49. > :02:57.sure. The First Minister might have the votes the night but she has

:02:58. > :03:00.failed to bring people with her. In Scotland the First Minister

:03:01. > :03:05.represented the state and the state is trying to push this yes vote

:03:06. > :03:18.through. The state is saying yes but we're on the side of the people and

:03:19. > :03:23.people say no. Eight minutes please. In closing for the Greens want to

:03:24. > :03:28.echo the comments made at the outset which caused for passionate. We are

:03:29. > :03:48.political opponents but not enemies, we disagree profoundly. If nothing

:03:49. > :03:58.else we should not agree. In an environment of hostility and anger

:03:59. > :04:01.that was on the whole as Andy Wightman mentioned. We accepted

:04:02. > :04:04.either case was in the case for everyone in either of those votes.

:04:05. > :04:10.If you want to see such a high turnout in such engagement like we

:04:11. > :04:17.had before then we should strive to replicate successes. The Scottish

:04:18. > :04:25.Greens believe it is the right to choose between the two futures. We

:04:26. > :04:29.should be able to choose so. We expect the deal to be known by the

:04:30. > :04:38.autumn of 2018, the European Commission has said as much. Given

:04:39. > :04:56.the choice at that point when the details are known we would extract

:04:57. > :04:59.Scotland from the niss. I would not suggest that this Papas three of

:05:00. > :05:03.challenges. Colleagues are right to raise them but it is incumbent on

:05:04. > :05:14.those questioning the challenges of independents to defend the position.

:05:15. > :05:18.Such as that of the euro adoption. On that point I would say examples

:05:19. > :05:24.from Sweden and nations that have joined, the criteria which is not

:05:25. > :05:28.been compelled to do so. When Mr Tomkins poses these questions, I

:05:29. > :05:33.cannot help but wonder where he thought they drew the mandate from.

:05:34. > :05:41.No questions were really answered an advanced. They cleared their support

:05:42. > :05:58.in the single market. Last week we heard there

:05:59. > :06:09.would be zero technical problems in Scotland joining the E. They went so

:06:10. > :06:19.far as said Europe would not lose Scotland. We have heard welcoming

:06:20. > :06:26.words. If we were going to have an independent man Scotland were going

:06:27. > :06:34.to vote, can he give that guarantee yes or no. The arguments we are

:06:35. > :06:43.making is either option is uncertain.

:06:44. > :07:10.We have heard welcoming words, we heard a Spanish veto, I don't the

:07:11. > :07:14.assumption of an automatic veto, colleagues in recent months has said

:07:15. > :07:21.that the right call for a referendum. They said a few months

:07:22. > :07:27.ago that they would not post an independence referendum. Ruth

:07:28. > :07:43.Davidson was making clear said it would be constitutionally wrong.

:07:44. > :07:49.Once the parliament has voted, who will you defend, Parliament people

:07:50. > :07:56.elected or a Westminster government that they did not. The first Minster

:07:57. > :08:16.should be striving for unity. For a party which does seek to

:08:17. > :08:29.divide I have little time for Tory condemnation. Members have been keen

:08:30. > :08:34.to discuss the will of the people. In 2014 the will was to stay, I was

:08:35. > :08:38.disappointed, in 2016 the will was to remain in the European Union. The

:08:39. > :08:41.Scottish and offered the UK Government a compromise proposal

:08:42. > :08:44.which could have recognised and resolved by the votes, compromises

:08:45. > :08:48.that went further than the Greens were uncomfortable with that they

:08:49. > :08:52.have been ignored. These positions are now irreconcilable and it should

:08:53. > :08:55.be our responsibility as the representatives elected by the

:08:56. > :09:00.people of Scotland to fight for their right to choose their own

:09:01. > :09:05.future. When 27 EU nations and a number of regions will have their

:09:06. > :09:09.say, it is only right that the people who live here have their say

:09:10. > :09:12.as well. It should be all of the people of Scotland to have that so I

:09:13. > :09:16.would urge Labour and Liberal Democrat even you intend to vote

:09:17. > :09:21.against the final motion, please support the rights of young people

:09:22. > :09:30.and European citizens to play their part in deciding their future if a

:09:31. > :09:32.referendum was going to happen. Douglas Ross went far to say what he

:09:33. > :09:46.would do. I don't think you got your card in

:09:47. > :09:57.Mr Ross. LAUGHING

:09:58. > :10:02.Douglas Ross. I'm a linesman sire trouble with cartilage is why use

:10:03. > :10:08.flag. I thank Ross Greville giving way, he says my constituents would

:10:09. > :10:10.prefer I'm not here today, pushing for a second independence

:10:11. > :10:13.referendum, would you tell that to the hundreds of people who turned up

:10:14. > :10:18.in the town hall last night for my meeting against the second

:10:19. > :10:28.referendum because the people are annoyed that they will be forced

:10:29. > :10:35.into another referendum. As Mr Ross is well aware, his constituents

:10:36. > :10:40.voted remain in 2016 and I do not presume to speak for them in either

:10:41. > :10:45.of those. I want to give them a choice for the two irreconcilable

:10:46. > :10:49.options that face that. The Greens were proud to make the case for a

:10:50. > :10:57.progressive independent Scotland. Andy Wightman explained the key

:10:58. > :11:04.powers of politics, equality and democracy. We will be proud to run a

:11:05. > :11:14.campaign. For to raise concerns I would echo the point about

:11:15. > :11:20.constitutional politics it is critical to sustain a healthy

:11:21. > :11:25.economy, it is the legitimate position and we to move the powers

:11:26. > :11:31.that this has. And to truly tackle the cause of poverty and

:11:32. > :11:41.Our cause in this debate is a simple one, to give the people a choice.

:11:42. > :11:46.Earlier in the debate we almost got... A more apt summary would be,

:11:47. > :11:51.what about the other voice responding saying no, and we the

:11:52. > :11:55.state. Well, we are the Parliament elected by the people of Scotland,

:11:56. > :12:06.and we say let the people choose. APPLAUSE

:12:07. > :12:11.This debate has been about leaving the EU and leaving the UK, about the

:12:12. > :12:14.will of the people and majorities in Parliament, and about the

:12:15. > :12:19.accountability of ministers here and elsewhere. As far as Europe is

:12:20. > :12:25.concerned, Alex Neil's contribution is a good place to start. He

:12:26. > :12:33.demonstrated a clarity of analysis largely missing from his own party's

:12:34. > :12:36.front bench. A yes vote in an independence referendum cannot be

:12:37. > :12:43.interpreted as a jewel mandate for independence and for an independent

:12:44. > :12:47.Scotland to join the EU. Equally a vote to leave or remain in the EU

:12:48. > :12:52.tells us nothing at all about our voters views on Scotland's leaving

:12:53. > :12:56.the UK. It may be an obvious point, but it isn't the approach that has

:12:57. > :13:05.been taken in this debate by SNP ministers. "The People of Scotland

:13:06. > :13:09.were told in 2014 that the only way to remain in the EU was to vote

:13:10. > :13:15.against independence, they were later told to vote remained to it

:13:16. > :13:18.achieve the same outcome". The truth is people didn't vote in two quite

:13:19. > :13:22.different referendums on two quite different questions in order to

:13:23. > :13:26.achieve the same outcome. It may be too painful for some in the SNP to

:13:27. > :13:32.contemplate, but the largest democratic vote in Scottish history

:13:33. > :13:37.was not on the issue of membership of the EU explicitly or implicitly,

:13:38. > :13:41.it was a vote to remain in the UK, plain and simple. To imply

:13:42. > :13:45.otherwise, as the Scottish Government has done, seems to me to

:13:46. > :13:50.be neither honest nor transparent. Nor does it respect the sovereign

:13:51. > :13:52.right of the Scottish people to reject independence inside or

:13:53. > :14:01.outside the EU as they have already done. Much has been said about the

:14:02. > :14:06.Scottish Government's proposals in Scotland's place in Europe. It's

:14:07. > :14:09.important to stress those proposals were not endorsed by this

:14:10. > :14:14.Parliament, nor by any committee of this Parliament, despite comments

:14:15. > :14:19.attributed to a government spokesperson. MSPs didn't vote in

:14:20. > :14:25.favour of measures to limit trade within the UK, North rules of

:14:26. > :14:28.parallel market stability inspired by the erosion ship between

:14:29. > :14:35.Switzerland and Lipscomb is dying. They were endorsed by the SNP alone.

:14:36. > :14:40.We voted to Nicola Sturgeon to seek agreement with Theresa May on a

:14:41. > :14:43.common approach to Brexit to protect Scotland's interests. Many of us

:14:44. > :14:47.were dismayed when the UK Government made a unilateral decision to walk

:14:48. > :14:51.away from the single market and the customs union. Two weeks ago the

:14:52. > :14:54.First Minister took around unilateral decision to write

:14:55. > :14:58.offering proposals. A mean both the UK and the single market by

:14:59. > :15:04.demanding a referendum on leaving the UK instead. So much for seeking

:15:05. > :15:10.to influence Article 50. So much for any serious alternative to Britain

:15:11. > :15:17.leaving the single market. So much for the First Minister's existing

:15:18. > :15:23.mandate. The SNP's commitment to the EU relegate it to second place and

:15:24. > :15:29.cast into doubt. So last week I asked Joe Stevenson whether he would

:15:30. > :15:35.be urging to vote to leave the UK in order to rejoin the EU. His answer

:15:36. > :15:38.was to point to paragraph 127 of Scotland's place in Europe where it

:15:39. > :15:44.says we would not remain in the Common fisheries policy. I

:15:45. > :15:47.understand his point of view entirely but leaving the common

:15:48. > :15:52.fisheries policy means not joining or remaining in the EU, there are no

:15:53. > :15:56.circumstances in which a Scotland which refused to be part of one

:15:57. > :16:06.would be able to be part of the other. To pretend otherwise would

:16:07. > :16:10.not be honest and would not be fair. In the spirit of consensus which

:16:11. > :16:14.affects some of this debate, can I congratulate the Labour Party in not

:16:15. > :16:19.joining the Tories in deleting from the motion acknowledges the

:16:20. > :16:23.sovereign right to the Scottish people to determine the form of

:16:24. > :16:27.government best suited to their needs. The Labour Party clearly

:16:28. > :16:31.supports that. Will you be voting for the Tory amendment tonight which

:16:32. > :16:35.would delete that from the motion before us? We will not be voting for

:16:36. > :16:40.the Tory amendment and we will not be voting for the S's proposition.

:16:41. > :16:43.We respect the sovereign right of the Scottish people to make these

:16:44. > :16:49.judgments and the Scottish people have made that judgment already in

:16:50. > :16:54.2014. A few days ago, Alex Salmond extolled the virtues of the SNP

:16:55. > :16:59.strategy on radio five live. The idea, he said, is to have continuous

:17:00. > :17:04.membership of the European economic area. That's a lot easier to achieve

:17:05. > :17:08.very quickly, it's not something that has anything like the

:17:09. > :17:13.difficulties of securing full European Union membership. If that

:17:14. > :17:17.is indeed the SNP strategy, then this debate isn't about finding a

:17:18. > :17:24.way for Scotland to get into or remain in the EU. Alex Salmond says

:17:25. > :17:28.now isn't the time. This debate is about a decision to call for a

:17:29. > :17:33.second referendum on leaving the UK, regardless of the consequences.

:17:34. > :17:38.Nicola Sturgeon wants to have that vote in the next two years as we

:17:39. > :17:41.have heard. She said the future relationship of Britain in Europe

:17:42. > :17:48.will be clear by then, but the only person she can quote in support of

:17:49. > :17:53.that view appears to be Theresa May. EU chief negotiator said last week

:17:54. > :17:58.that all the terms of the UK's withdrawals must be settled before

:17:59. > :18:03.trade talks can even start. Former director of the WTO also said last

:18:04. > :18:09.week, I don't think it can be done within two years. Of course, if you

:18:10. > :18:13.weeks ago, former British Ambassador Sir Ivan Rogers summarised with you

:18:14. > :18:22.in Brussels, agreeing a trade deal with the UK may take until the early

:18:23. > :18:26.to mid 2020s. I suspect they are more likely to be proved right than

:18:27. > :18:30.either Nicola Sturgeon or Theresa May. We cannot yet know what Brexit

:18:31. > :18:38.will look like and nor do we know what the SNP's perspective is

:18:39. > :18:42.leaving the UK. They have no answers on Europe, the currency, the economy

:18:43. > :18:47.or the fiscal deficit. Instead they insist a vote in favour of this

:18:48. > :18:52.choice between two unknowns will represent the democratic will of the

:18:53. > :18:56.Scottish Parliament. Most people will assume the phrase had something

:18:57. > :19:00.to do with the will of the people, yet neither Nicola Sturgeon not

:19:01. > :19:05.Patrick Harvie could point to any evidence that another referendum is

:19:06. > :19:12.what the people want. All the available evidence says it isn't.

:19:13. > :19:16.I'm grateful to the member forgiving way. Will he acknowledge that

:19:17. > :19:20.consistently, throughout this debate, the Greens have acknowledged

:19:21. > :19:24.not only the contradiction between the 2014 and 2016 results in

:19:25. > :19:28.Scotland, but that none of us, however we voted in either of these

:19:29. > :19:34.referendums, should be here because the UK Government has taken the

:19:35. > :19:42.result of the UK wide EU referendum for a mandate for something it was

:19:43. > :19:46.never supposed to be. We need thousands of the Scottish people. I

:19:47. > :19:51.am listening very hard and I am picking up no demand for another

:19:52. > :19:54.independence referendum. The First Minister promised in the heat of the

:19:55. > :19:59.last referendum campaign that she would respect the result but now

:20:00. > :20:04.says it is trumped by the reference in the party's manifesto. The Greens

:20:05. > :20:08.said it should not be driven by calculation of party political

:20:09. > :20:13.advantage. It's a pity they chose to abandon that he wants the election

:20:14. > :20:15.was over. I expect there will be a Parliamentary majority for another

:20:16. > :20:19.referendum, which the people of Scotland do not want and is a

:20:20. > :20:24.question the Scottish people have already answered. The use of that

:20:25. > :20:29.majority for that purpose is a party political choice, it shouldn't be

:20:30. > :20:32.dressed up as representing the people's democratic will. We would

:20:33. > :20:37.all wish votes in the space to be treated with respect but it is

:20:38. > :20:41.surely for Scotland's government itself to lead on that by example.

:20:42. > :20:46.Speaker after speaker in this debate has asked the First Minister why she

:20:47. > :20:50.has chosen to ignore parliamentary majority vanishes as important as

:20:51. > :20:56.health and education, Highland control of Highland development and

:20:57. > :21:00.university funding. Yet she expects others to treat this evening's vote

:21:01. > :21:03.as an expression of the will of the people of Scotland, when there is no

:21:04. > :21:07.evidence it is what they want. I will encourage the First Minister to

:21:08. > :21:11.listen to the people of Scotland, to treat all fates of this Parliament

:21:12. > :21:14.with equal respect. And above all, to spare the people of Scotland and

:21:15. > :21:30.independence referendum which the people don't want. APPLAUSE

:21:31. > :21:35.Murdo Fraser to wind up the party. I want to pay to beta contributions on

:21:36. > :21:39.all sides. It's to my regret that I don't feel it is appropriate at the

:21:40. > :21:43.end of this debate. Although we've had some good speeches, overall this

:21:44. > :21:47.has been a disappointing and depressing debate. There is a rehash

:21:48. > :21:52.of old arguments on an issue we believe was settled less than three

:21:53. > :21:54.years ago. If ever there was an argument against a second

:21:55. > :21:57.independence referendum it has been the last eight hours of

:21:58. > :22:02.Parliamentary time, which give us a flavour of what the country would

:22:03. > :22:07.have to go through for years to come if the SNP were successful. This

:22:08. > :22:11.debate has literally been a waste of Parliamentary time. Eight hours that

:22:12. > :22:14.could have been spent on education, on the health service, on our

:22:15. > :22:18.underperforming economy. At the end of eight hours of debate, no one is

:22:19. > :22:26.any the wiser and the arguments are not advanced one iota. One of the

:22:27. > :22:31.few bright spots in this debate was a contribution made last Tuesday by

:22:32. > :22:35.Bruce Crawford, who made a very important point about tone and

:22:36. > :22:38.language. It's a pity some of his party colleagues who contributed

:22:39. > :22:44.later that day seemed not to have paid much attention. It's also an

:22:45. > :22:47.issue here for the SNP leadership. A few weeks ago I raised with the

:22:48. > :22:55.First Minister the language of the SNP deputy leader of the council who

:22:56. > :22:59.went on an extraordinary rant about occupying forces. The First Minister

:23:00. > :23:05.at the time condemned such language in general terms. There has been no

:23:06. > :23:09.explanation, no withdrawal and no apology from the Council. Yesterday

:23:10. > :23:12.he was pictured on the steps of the council headquarters in Perth as an

:23:13. > :23:19.SNP candidate for the coming elections, standing beside others.

:23:20. > :23:23.The First Minister called earlier this afternoon for a respectful

:23:24. > :23:28.debate. But it seems that the use of offensive language in her own party

:23:29. > :23:33.is rewarded with an endorsement from her deputy. If the First Minister is

:23:34. > :23:37.serious about taking Mr Crawford's advised then she needs to start

:23:38. > :23:46.leading by example in her own party. Let me respond if I can... I'll give

:23:47. > :23:52.way. I thank Mr Fraser said taking the intervention. A young family

:23:53. > :23:57.member of mine on Twitter asked of the Scottish Tories, will you

:23:58. > :24:02.guarantee my partner will be able to return to Scotland after Brexit

:24:03. > :24:06.negotiations are complete. The response from the Conservative

:24:07. > :24:11.candidate was, how on earth can we guarantee that. There are no

:24:12. > :24:16.guarantees in life. Grow up. Does Mr Fraser want to apologise for that

:24:17. > :24:22.comment or has the Tory mask of respectability just slipped? There

:24:23. > :24:29.she goes again. If the member thinks there is any comparison with that

:24:30. > :24:33.sort of remark and talking about redcoats and occupying forces, she's

:24:34. > :24:39.on a different planet. Let me get on to responding to a of points made in

:24:40. > :24:42.the debates. I'd like to start by congratulating the First Minister on

:24:43. > :24:46.what I think is a remarkable success of her. Within the past two weeks

:24:47. > :24:50.she's managed to achieve something that no previous First Minister or

:24:51. > :24:55.SNP politician has been able to deliver. The years members of this

:24:56. > :24:59.party, the Scottish Conservative Unionist party, have deliberated and

:25:00. > :25:02.agonised over the issue of how do we make a Conservative Prime Minister

:25:03. > :25:06.in London popular in Scotland once again. The decades we have faced a

:25:07. > :25:11.situation where it's been difficult for the Scottish people to warm to a

:25:12. > :25:17.Conservative Prime Minister. Much sweat and tears have been expended,

:25:18. > :25:21.vast sums spent on speech writers, focus groups, opinion polling, style

:25:22. > :25:25.consultants, to try and turn around the state of affairs to make a

:25:26. > :25:28.Conservative Prime Minister truly popular in Scotland. All that effort

:25:29. > :25:33.could have been saved. If only we knew then what we know now. For all

:25:34. > :25:37.it takes to make a Conservative Prime Minister popular in Scotland

:25:38. > :25:42.is heard to say no to Nicola Sturgeon. For that has been the

:25:43. > :25:48.outcome of the events of the past week. The First Minister has a plan.

:25:49. > :25:53.She would go to Theresa May and demand the power to call a Scottish

:25:54. > :25:57.independence referendum. Theresa May would say no and such would be the

:25:58. > :26:01.outrage in Scotland at this slap in the face of Scotland's First

:26:02. > :26:07.Minister, we'd see a surge of support independence.

:26:08. > :26:21.there's a surge in support for independence and Theresa May. Nicola

:26:22. > :26:23.Sturgeon has reduce the remarkable. She has boosted popularity of the

:26:24. > :26:26.Conservative Prime Minister with the people of Scotland. She has created

:26:27. > :26:39.a situation where the First Minister is not just less popular. Can I

:26:40. > :26:52.thank the First Minister for her efforts. Much of this debate has

:26:53. > :27:00.centred around mandates for a second independence referendum. In 2014.

:27:01. > :27:05.They all promised that a 2014 referendum would settle this

:27:06. > :27:17.regeneration. Alex Salmond seems to have forgotten all of that. That is

:27:18. > :27:32.what we were told at the time. It is a cast-iron block the second

:27:33. > :27:48.referendum. 100,000 but that was not enough,, they change the figure to 1

:27:49. > :28:00.million, that is what they voted on. Mr Harvey will not distance himself.

:28:01. > :28:07.Can he and Sir are several of his colleagues have been given the

:28:08. > :28:25.chance and none of them have done it. A manifesto that promised to

:28:26. > :28:33.commit it... Mr Harvey is trying to rewrite history. They claimed they

:28:34. > :28:35.would get a billion signatures. They only needed one signature and that

:28:36. > :28:54.was Nicola Sturgeon. All of these earnest folk, we know

:28:55. > :28:58.with their home spined woollens and recycled bicycles and their vegan

:28:59. > :29:05.diets, all coming out to vote for the Green Party about climate change

:29:06. > :29:12.the birds and the bees and the Beavers. All of them for a myriad of

:29:13. > :29:20.reasons but not once thinking they were handing a blank cheque to do

:29:21. > :29:27.the bidding of the SNP. The Greens have departed from what they set out

:29:28. > :29:37.last year and no wonder so many voters feel betrayed. The First

:29:38. > :29:43.Minister argues that if Parliament votes then it would be at a

:29:44. > :29:50.Democratic outrage if it is refused. Time and time again we have heard

:29:51. > :30:01.that this is not followed by the SNP.

:30:02. > :30:06.When the parliament voted against the scrapping of the funding board,

:30:07. > :30:11.did the Government act and will they vote to abolish the ludicrous and

:30:12. > :30:21.discredited for the light, did the gum didn't.

:30:22. > :30:27.The breathtaking hypocrisy for the SNP to claim that the Westminster

:30:28. > :30:28.government should listen to the world where it's routinely dismisses

:30:29. > :30:43.votes. Unionist and nationalist camps are

:30:44. > :30:51.back out knocking doors the man doing your vote. It is a vote to put

:30:52. > :30:54.your school and your hospital to go to the back of the queue because the

:30:55. > :31:04.Scottish Government would work immediately.

:31:05. > :31:11.Nicola Sturgeon will be going into the office tomorrow at the top of

:31:12. > :31:14.her to-do list. The countdown will begin tomorrow which is utterly

:31:15. > :31:27.unfair. Presiding officer I expect the voter

:31:28. > :31:40.night to be in favour of the Government motion. If that is the

:31:41. > :31:43.vote of the parliament the night, on this issue, parliament and the SNP

:31:44. > :31:56.and the First Minister to not speak for Scotland. There might be turning

:31:57. > :31:57.their backs on the people of Scotland but just we as a country

:31:58. > :32:16.did in 2014. The First Minister opened the part

:32:17. > :32:23.of the debate by recalling the horror of the events last Wednesday

:32:24. > :32:30.and I opened the conclusion with the same sentiments and the reminder of

:32:31. > :32:37.the democratic process that beats at the heart of the community. That has

:32:38. > :32:41.been about a democratic discussion and a difference of opinion and

:32:42. > :32:49.democracy cannot thrive unless there is difference of opinion. That

:32:50. > :33:02.difference is at the heart of the democratic choice. Those sentiments

:33:03. > :33:12.were anchored in a debate by three strong contributions, they paid

:33:13. > :33:23.tributes and paid sentiments to what he delivered to Parliament. On the

:33:24. > :33:34.reflection on there to be a debate on the significance to the country.

:33:35. > :33:39.The great Gayla tradition of our country so powerfully about the

:33:40. > :33:48.importance of a fair and open discourse. I am on the receiving end

:33:49. > :33:54.frequently of social media comment and political comments that are

:33:55. > :33:56.aggressive and I know people are too that we have a duty to try to lead

:33:57. > :34:21.by example. That brings me on to the crux of the proposition we are

:34:22. > :34:31.putting forward for that to be referendum.

:34:32. > :34:37.It was supported in the constituency by 46.5 of the electorate in

:34:38. > :34:42.Scotland, the larger share of the vote that any government has been

:34:43. > :34:49.elected in the United Kingdom with since the mid-19 60s. The huge

:34:50. > :34:54.mandate. That manifesto said the Scottish parliament should have the

:34:55. > :34:58.power to hold the referendum if there is a significant or material

:34:59. > :35:17.change in the circumstance that preferred in 2014.

:35:18. > :35:24.The no campaign made the point clearly and firmly around the

:35:25. > :35:32.country that the way to guarantee that membership of the European

:35:33. > :35:45.Union must vote no. The membership of the European Union has been taken

:35:46. > :35:48.away from our will. There has been a material breach and surely than the

:35:49. > :35:53.question you would want to put to the Scottish people is an

:35:54. > :35:58.independent Scotland within the European Union and I don't hear you

:35:59. > :36:08.saying that. That is the position of the Government. That then brings me

:36:09. > :36:22.onto the reconciliation of the outcomes of the two referendums in

:36:23. > :36:26.2014. That brings me to the contributions they wrestled with the

:36:27. > :36:30.same question in a sense. Andy Wightman said the outcome of the

:36:31. > :36:45.referendum and the outcome of the 2016 referendum are incompatible.

:36:46. > :36:54.In 2014 his constituents voted no and in 2016 they voted remain but

:36:55. > :37:00.somehow lost. They were not to get the outcome in 2016 that they

:37:01. > :37:04.actually voted for in this constituency in Scotland so the

:37:05. > :37:13.point is that there is an incompatibility on the outcome. This

:37:14. > :37:22.from me is the rational justification for us to ask the

:37:23. > :37:26.question. In wrestling with that compatibility I said I have taken

:37:27. > :37:32.the view and the decision that we will respect the outcomes. It seems

:37:33. > :37:43.the Government 's's responds is the outcome of neither referendum. What

:37:44. > :37:48.we have acknowledged as the incompatibility. That gives me the

:37:49. > :38:00.efforts to try to resolve these questions. The Prime Minister made

:38:01. > :38:05.it very clear that she wanted to secure an agreed UK position before

:38:06. > :38:11.she triggered article 50. Parliament essentially argued for many of those

:38:12. > :38:17.aspects when they argued for us to explore the relationship with a

:38:18. > :38:22.single market and the benefits which flow from that relationship. The

:38:23. > :38:35.joint ministerial committee has in its remit the desire to see a UK

:38:36. > :38:42.approach I would say to a very wide endorsement across many views and

:38:43. > :38:48.the supporters of the SNP of being a very strong and legitimate approach.

:38:49. > :38:54.And pillar by that agreement was pulled down by the UK governments,

:38:55. > :39:00.single market, migration, customs union. We are left to the situation

:39:01. > :39:04.where we in good faith have gone through a process of trying to

:39:05. > :39:16.secure an agreement which would maintain the benefits of EU

:39:17. > :39:21.membership. The UK Government, we are not in the joint ministerial

:39:22. > :39:26.discretion to get to a conclusion. I would like the Deputy First Minister

:39:27. > :39:31.to comment on good faith. When any efforts were made post Brexit from

:39:32. > :39:36.this government became after his leader and the First Minister stood

:39:37. > :39:41.up and said within three hours of the last votes being counted and the

:39:42. > :39:46.Brexit referendum that she had instructed the Scottish Government

:39:47. > :39:50.employees to draw the legislation for another independence referendum.

:39:51. > :40:01.She was always coming to this point and nothing was going to stop her.

:40:02. > :40:12.That might suit her narrative but it is not the case. And it didn't stop

:40:13. > :40:16.the Prime Minister, it didn't stop the Prime Minister coming to the

:40:17. > :40:18.House after that statement and inviting the Scottish Government to

:40:19. > :40:24.make its contribution to the process. What has not protected as

:40:25. > :40:32.has been the decision of the Government to go for die-hard

:40:33. > :40:37.Brexit. Many voters did not actually want this to happen. We have seen

:40:38. > :40:41.stage by stage the opportunity to make progress and it being ruled out

:40:42. > :40:46.by the decisions and actions of the UK Government.

:40:47. > :40:53.Why does this matter? This matters because many of the experiences I

:40:54. > :41:04.went through as a member of the Smith commission. We spend hours of

:41:05. > :41:06.our lives agreeing the importance of improving intergovernmental

:41:07. > :41:12.relationships so it would be better to get to a UK agreed position. This

:41:13. > :41:15.process as shown it is not possible with the way the UK Government has

:41:16. > :41:25.embarked on this process. Finally we come to the issues about what is at

:41:26. > :41:30.the heart of the debate, whether or not the referendum should take place

:41:31. > :41:34.or not. And that is what type of country we want to live in and what

:41:35. > :41:39.type of society we want to be part of. There has been lots of

:41:40. > :41:44.accusations made against my party about the fact we apparently are

:41:45. > :41:48.people that divide others. That has been the accusation made across this

:41:49. > :41:59.chamber. Claire Adamson made a remark in the debate about the way

:42:00. > :42:08.in which the term has been used in the debate. Many of us have heard

:42:09. > :42:16.about language against migrants, we need to work with companies in our

:42:17. > :42:23.country that provide jobs in our country and division has been sown

:42:24. > :42:32.by those who have spent years arguing against the benefit of

:42:33. > :42:43.migration. Alec Crowley made a fine speech in the debate. You can take

:42:44. > :42:51.one more intervention. I wonder if he will share my concern and the

:42:52. > :42:55.othering that is going on right across the United Kingdom, which is

:42:56. > :43:00.unconcerned about refugees and EU nationals. There are plenty of

:43:01. > :43:04.people across the United Kingdom who would agree with us and it is

:43:05. > :43:11.unhelpful to redefine the United Kingdom to somewhere beyond the

:43:12. > :43:14.pale. I am absolutely certain there are people across the United

:43:15. > :43:19.Kingdom, I read their comments in the news media and social media,

:43:20. > :43:23.deeply dispirited about where debate in the United Kingdom has got to do.

:43:24. > :43:28.The question, and this is where I come to Mr Rau Lee's fine

:43:29. > :43:34.contribution to the debate, that is what do we do about it? He said we

:43:35. > :43:44.cannot allow the Tories to dictate the terms about a hard Brexit. But

:43:45. > :43:49.we are being marched step-by-step and over the clip by United Kingdom

:43:50. > :43:54.government that is not representing the values and aspirations that

:43:55. > :43:57.brought me into politics. I make no apology for deep defending those

:43:58. > :44:02.aspirations and values because they mean a lot to me. I want to do

:44:03. > :44:07.something about it, I want to make sure my country has the opportunity

:44:08. > :44:11.to shape its future, the void of the awful agenda that has contaminated

:44:12. > :44:15.political debate in the United Kingdom that has been fuelled by the

:44:16. > :44:20.Conservative Party in its determination to see the Ukip. I

:44:21. > :44:24.want to make sure, we build in this country, the best future for our

:44:25. > :44:35.country and we can best do that with the powers of independence.

:44:36. > :44:38.APPLAUSE That concludes the debate on

:44:39. > :44:43.Scotland's choice and remove the decision time. There are five

:44:44. > :44:47.questions to be put today. I remind members if the amendment in the name

:44:48. > :44:53.of Ruth Davidson is agreed, all other amendments fail. The first

:44:54. > :44:59.question the amendment proceeds to amend the other amendments in the

:45:00. > :45:03.name of Scotland's First Minister. We're not agreed, we moved to a vote

:45:04. > :45:39.and members may cast their votes now.

:45:40. > :45:49.The results of the vote in the name of Ruth Davidson is yes, 31, no, 97.

:45:50. > :45:57.No abstentions so the amendment is not agreed. If the amendment in the

:45:58. > :45:59.name of Kezia Dugdale is agreed, then the amendment in the name of

:46:00. > :46:10.Patrick Harvie and Willie Rennie fail. Are we all agreed? We are not

:46:11. > :46:43.agreed, we move to the division and members may cast their votes now.

:46:44. > :46:51.The results of the vote on the amendment in the name of Kezia

:46:52. > :46:58.Dugdale is yes, 28, no 100. No abstentions, so the amendment is not

:46:59. > :47:04.agreed. The amendments in the name of Patrick Harvie, who seeks to

:47:05. > :47:08.amend the motion in Nicola Sturgeon to be agreed. Are we agreed? We're

:47:09. > :47:41.not agreed, members may cast their votes now.

:47:42. > :47:52.The results of the vote on the amendment in the name of Patrick

:47:53. > :47:57.Harvie is yes, 69, no, 59. No abstentions, the amendment is

:47:58. > :48:05.therefore agreed. The final question, is amendments in the name

:48:06. > :48:10.of Willie Rennie seeks to amend amendment in the name of Nicola

:48:11. > :48:13.Sturgeon, be agreed. Are we agreed? We're not agreed, members may cast

:48:14. > :48:52.their votes now. The results of the vote in the

:48:53. > :48:58.amendment in the name of Willie Rennie is yes, 28, no 100. The

:48:59. > :49:04.amendment is not agreed. The final question is that the motion in the

:49:05. > :49:10.name of Nicola Sturgeon on Scotland's choice as amended, be

:49:11. > :49:12.agreed. Are we all agreed? We're not agreed, members may cast their votes

:49:13. > :49:52.now. The results of the vote on the

:49:53. > :49:58.motion in the name of Nicola Sturgeon is yes, 69, no 59. No

:49:59. > :50:01.abstentions. The motion, as amended, is therefore agreed.

:50:02. > :50:16.APPLAUSE That concludes decision time. We now

:50:17. > :50:19.move to member's business in the name of Graeme Day. I would ask

:50:20. > :50:27.members to leave the chamber quietly.