:05:12. > :31:52.That agreement has been made on a contemporary basis. We will have to
:31:53. > :31:58.see how that goes in the next accounting year. Is there a plan
:31:59. > :32:04.once things have resolved themselves in terms of accounting standards,
:32:05. > :32:08.that they will be re-consolidated? Not that I am aware. If there is a
:32:09. > :32:13.way that parliaments, this committee, the Treasury feels there
:32:14. > :32:23.are more ways we can give transparency, I think the idea is
:32:24. > :32:31.for the next 2015 /16 financial year, we will publish one final set
:32:32. > :32:38.of accounts. We will pick up with the new system. We will be going
:32:39. > :32:49.over this ground in more detail so be ready for that. The White Paper
:32:50. > :32:54.says paragraph 328, Grove Academy trusts will improve the quality of
:32:55. > :33:00.governance. What is the evidence for that view? It is from a combination
:33:01. > :33:04.of talking to those running multi-Academy trusts and those
:33:05. > :33:08.pieces of information that we gather. It goes on to say the best
:33:09. > :33:14.governing boards will take responsibility for more schools. It
:33:15. > :33:23.is that ability to look after schools that share responsibilities.
:33:24. > :33:29.The evidence comes from talking to people in multi-Academy trusts? It
:33:30. > :33:34.is both. It is right the way across the system. I have had a letter from
:33:35. > :33:41.a parent of a student who has been a multi-Academy and GCSE results
:33:42. > :33:51.declined specifically. Executive pay has risen way in addition of
:33:52. > :33:55.inflation. The school is trying to manage its intake to improve the
:33:56. > :34:02.quality of the students coming in. It has been a high teacher turnover
:34:03. > :34:16.and there is worried about proceeds coming in from a land sale. Parents
:34:17. > :34:21.are not encouraged to make complaints. What can they do? What
:34:22. > :34:25.they can do is to raise concerns with the trust if they feel they are
:34:26. > :34:33.not getting anywhere there. The school commissioner, the education
:34:34. > :34:35.funding agency or come straight to the Department for Education. We
:34:36. > :34:40.allow parents to potentially petition for a school to leave a
:34:41. > :34:47.multi-Academy trust if they were really unhappy. That is on
:34:48. > :34:52.performance grounds. Also to allow an address to the public sector
:34:53. > :34:55.ombudsman has been proposed. You haven't named the Academy trust
:34:56. > :34:59.involved so I cannot tell you whether it is something we are
:35:00. > :35:09.investigating. You can give us the details and we can find out more. We
:35:10. > :35:12.are able to issues these notices to improve and to re-broker if
:35:13. > :35:17.something has dramatically gone wrong. Will legislation allowing
:35:18. > :35:22.parents to perdition shift trust in the legislation when it comes
:35:23. > :35:26.forward? We need to look at all the details and it is something that is
:35:27. > :35:32.put forward in the White Paper. We haven't had as many comments on that
:35:33. > :35:35.yet. We need to work out how it works. There is always that argument
:35:36. > :35:42.about not wanting to destabilise the arrangements. It is important if
:35:43. > :35:47.there is a good reason. Parents will be able to have their say. It is
:35:48. > :35:53.about having real meaningful engagement. One point made is the
:35:54. > :35:58.school has been and I quote removed from attachment with its community
:35:59. > :36:04.and that control now rests in west London, at the headquarters of the
:36:05. > :36:08.trust and also at the chair is based in the US. Why are you removing the
:36:09. > :36:14.requirement for schools to have parent governors? There is nothing
:36:15. > :36:17.about parents not being governors or do we not want parents to be
:36:18. > :36:24.governors. We do want governing board is made up of people with the
:36:25. > :36:28.right skills to hold those trusts are those running schools to
:36:29. > :36:31.account. I think it is important that we have people with the right
:36:32. > :36:39.skills. Many of whom will be parents. Isn't it important to have
:36:40. > :36:43.people attached to the local community? Of course it is. In terms
:36:44. > :36:47.of the constitution of most trusts, there would be a variety of people.
:36:48. > :36:52.Some will have direct involvement through being parents. They could
:36:53. > :37:03.even be members of the local authority. There will also be others
:37:04. > :37:05.with business or legal experience. And the principle of parental
:37:06. > :37:11.engagement at a formal Government level and a mutual counter the fears
:37:12. > :37:18.taken away from the local community outweigh the argument for schools to
:37:19. > :37:22.be given its own governance arrangements. Why have you rejected
:37:23. > :37:28.that view? What has been put forward in the White Paper is this idea of
:37:29. > :37:33.governing boards to have the right skills that are going to add to the
:37:34. > :37:41.school. Many of those people will be parents. Many trusts will still have
:37:42. > :37:47.parents on the board. Shouldn't it be a requirement that parents should
:37:48. > :37:55.be on there? Winner to have the strongest possible governing board.
:37:56. > :37:58.Sign to -- that all fours of a school being taken away from his
:37:59. > :38:03.local community and something should be done to provide reassurance about
:38:04. > :38:09.that. They need to provide ways for
:38:10. > :38:14.schools to have parent councils that get parents in. That have parents
:38:15. > :38:19.highly involved in that. I don't know the example and I think there
:38:20. > :38:27.are many other academies and trusts that wouldn't recognise the example
:38:28. > :38:31.that you have given at all. Looking at the disadvantaged pupils, some
:38:32. > :38:36.say the academies excel but most do worse than the mainstream average
:38:37. > :38:40.because they have expanded too fast. The trust recommends multi-Academy
:38:41. > :38:45.trusts should only be able to expanded they have a track record of
:38:46. > :38:52.improving their resistance calls. Do you agree? I know you like the
:38:53. > :38:59.Sutton trust a lot. They say the best academy trains -- chains are
:39:00. > :39:03.having a major transformation. We can be open about this. We know
:39:04. > :39:06.there are some Academy sponsors where things haven't worked out,
:39:07. > :39:10.they haven't been able to provide that challenge and in which case it
:39:11. > :39:18.will be re-brokered. The Sutton trust makes a few outstanding
:39:19. > :39:21.observations. Most of these multi-Academy trusts do worse than
:39:22. > :39:23.the mainstream average when they are looking at the performance of
:39:24. > :39:28.disadvantaged pupils. Their recommendation is the trust should
:39:29. > :39:33.only be allowed to expand if they have a track record of improving
:39:34. > :39:37.their existing schools. Do you agree? It is very important and one
:39:38. > :39:42.of the reasons we have stopped Academy trusts from extending
:39:43. > :39:50.because they don't have a good track record. So you want them to have a
:39:51. > :39:55.good track record? It is one of the most critical questions in
:39:56. > :40:01.considering whether they should... Is it a yes or a no? It is an
:40:02. > :40:07.important factor in whether Academy trusts should take on other schools.
:40:08. > :40:11.There are questions about whether a trust is capable of school
:40:12. > :40:17.improvement and we have stopped them expanding. Are you saying a trust
:40:18. > :40:21.must have had a track record of improving its existing schools
:40:22. > :40:30.before it takes on new schools? That is a vital question. I want to know
:40:31. > :40:36.the answer. I have given you the answer. If Academy trust doesn't
:40:37. > :40:41.have a good track record, we wouldn't let them take any more. You
:40:42. > :40:47.have talked about the importance of school autonomy in the new era. Why
:40:48. > :40:53.can schools have the autonomy to decide whether or not they should be
:40:54. > :40:57.Academy? We are going back over old ground but I am happy to do it for
:40:58. > :41:01.the reasons that I have set out. We have to build a strong consistent
:41:02. > :41:06.school system in this country and I have the opportunity to do that. We
:41:07. > :41:10.are halfway through it and have some great schools in parts of the
:41:11. > :41:13.country but we have areas we have identified in here and elsewhere
:41:14. > :41:18.where education is not yet good enough. We want good schools. If we
:41:19. > :41:23.are going to build a strong system, we want good schools to become
:41:24. > :41:28.academies, to offer that strength, that expertise right away across the
:41:29. > :41:35.country. Operating and running financially a jewel system does not
:41:36. > :41:41.make best use of taxpayer's money. We want as much money to go to the
:41:42. > :41:50.front line as much as we can. Ian, on the same subject? The White Paper
:41:51. > :42:00.does talk about the symbolic role of parent governors. Parent governors,
:42:01. > :42:09.was it Kenneth Baker that got that wrong? What conclusion on parent
:42:10. > :42:15.governors. They have done a sterling job but what conclusion are they
:42:16. > :42:26.meant to draw about their role in governments over the last 27 years
:42:27. > :42:30.when it has dismissed a thing that is largely symbolic? I don't want
:42:31. > :42:33.governors to be symbolic. I want them to be there absolutely bringing
:42:34. > :42:38.their skills, bringing life experience. Some will be parents and
:42:39. > :42:42.some won't come some will have worked in education and some want.
:42:43. > :42:48.There is no reason why parent governors shouldn't continue to make
:42:49. > :42:51.an excellent very valuable contribution to school governance.
:42:52. > :42:58.It is entirely possible under the proposals that you are bringing
:42:59. > :43:01.forward, that there may not be any parent governors in a particular
:43:02. > :43:07.school. There may be governors in a whole range of different categories
:43:08. > :43:09.bringing skills who might be parents themselves but not necessarily
:43:10. > :43:15.parents of children in school. I think that is important because
:43:16. > :43:20.parents in the locality like to know there is someone rooting for their
:43:21. > :43:24.case in the education system. Someone with the local knowledge
:43:25. > :43:28.base, someone who understands the community that they represent. That
:43:29. > :43:36.is important and I ask you to reflect on that. In terms of what
:43:37. > :43:40.the Academy trusts can do, what research has the DfEE conducted on
:43:41. > :43:46.the likely supply of new multi-Academy trusts into the
:43:47. > :43:54.future? In London they have been trying to get London sponsors to
:43:55. > :44:01.move into the land of them but they trickle down and it may not go as
:44:02. > :44:06.far as Gateshead or Newcastle from London. We know that we are looking
:44:07. > :44:11.for academies to be sponsored and people that want to do that. The
:44:12. > :44:15.most effective people to be sponsors of academies are other good or
:44:16. > :44:18.outstanding schools. If I look at the information that we have
:44:19. > :44:27.submitted in terms of the Academy trust enquiry -- inquiry, many are
:44:28. > :44:31.school lead. There are many schools who could be multi-Academy trust
:44:32. > :44:38.sponsors and we want all of them to consider doing that. Based on an
:44:39. > :44:43.anecdote from my own locality, where a school is trying to leave and
:44:44. > :44:46.Academy trust and have done so, they are still tied into the service
:44:47. > :44:52.contracts for a period of five years. They might well leave the
:44:53. > :44:55.governance structure but they can't leave the delivery of services
:44:56. > :45:04.because they are tied in by a legal contract. It is an important point.
:45:05. > :45:08.If we are going to have a system where we have more schools, some of
:45:09. > :45:15.which will be part of multi-Academy trusts, it is important that we
:45:16. > :45:19.clear that in the event of issues of performance, financial, could be
:45:20. > :45:23.just distance. Just lack of sufficient school improvement that
:45:24. > :45:27.NHS -- that trusts are not able to leave. We have to think about the
:45:28. > :45:36.issues and signing up to service contracts. You talked about many
:45:37. > :45:40.multi-trusts growing up from the ground in a location in small groups
:45:41. > :45:50.of school clustered together. In terms of the larger areas trying to
:45:51. > :45:57.provide services and move forward, what contingency plans have you made
:45:58. > :46:04.if the supply of this starts to tail off? I go back to the point that
:46:05. > :46:09.what we are seeing and we will not run out of schools on the basis that
:46:10. > :46:15.we know we have 24,000, but 70% of multi-Academy trusts are school led.
:46:16. > :46:17.That is one of the strongest ways of having clusters of school. They
:46:18. > :46:22.could be smaller or larger clustered. It builds a strong
:46:23. > :46:29.system. We will continue looking for sponsors. I talked before about
:46:30. > :46:38.education being a great life transformer. Now many ready
:46:39. > :46:41.organisations like Lord Harris who wants to invest in good education
:46:42. > :46:45.and want other people to experience that. Some don't have good education
:46:46. > :46:52.and want people to go through that. I their involvement. -- I welcome
:46:53. > :47:01.their involvement. What makes you confident that in
:47:02. > :47:06.rural areas where there may be very small rural schools, that MATs will
:47:07. > :47:11.oversee the management of those places? Schools do not have two join
:47:12. > :47:15.multi-Academy trust. I think it's one thing that has come out, people
:47:16. > :47:19.think automatically they will have to join a trust that is not right
:47:20. > :47:23.for them. That is not what we are saying and that's way over the six
:47:24. > :47:28.years that we are talking about. But we know that there are trusts that
:47:29. > :47:34.want to move into different areas and take on different schools. And
:47:35. > :47:38.we'll do that with the right conversations take and smaller
:47:39. > :47:41.schools. We also know that there are clusters of smaller schools that
:47:42. > :47:46.want to work together and that's something we say. It goes back to
:47:47. > :47:50.the point about one size fits all, it absolutely is not. It will look
:47:51. > :47:54.like a different system, different solutions for different areas may
:47:55. > :48:00.think that is exactly right you envisage there might be five or
:48:01. > :48:06.10,000 multi-Academy trusts across the country? It is difficult to give
:48:07. > :48:13.numbers. At the moment, we have 973 and they range in size. The vast
:48:14. > :48:21.majority have got less than ten schools in member, so I think we
:48:22. > :48:26.need to see how it develops but actually I am not going to say that
:48:27. > :48:30.small clusters of schools can speak to together and be successful.
:48:31. > :48:35.Managing the whole system and making sure everything is OK everywhere,
:48:36. > :48:42.can I say, I hope it stays fine for you. Well, I think we have a very
:48:43. > :48:49.talented number of regional schools Commissioners. Some colleges,
:48:50. > :48:57.apprenticeship providers in engineering for example saves me
:48:58. > :49:01.that schools don't promote and don't talk about other routes post 16.
:49:02. > :49:10.What confidence can we have that multi-academies trust are going to
:49:11. > :49:13.promote other routes post 16 and what confidence can we have that
:49:14. > :49:18.teachers will be equipped of knowledge of alternative routes into
:49:19. > :49:24.apprenticeships or training and understand more about the world
:49:25. > :49:27.enterprise and engineering for example? I don't think that
:49:28. > :49:31.challenge has anything to do with multi-Academy trusts. We know there
:49:32. > :49:36.are schools of all hues who would like to hold onto their pupils I
:49:37. > :49:40.have been very clear that if necessary we will legislate so that
:49:41. > :49:45.other providers must be allowed to come in and talk about other
:49:46. > :49:48.opportunities will stop other routes were doing A-levels or technical
:49:49. > :49:55.professional education. I think that's very important. I've also
:49:56. > :49:58.spoken about the careers and enterprise advisers in working with
:49:59. > :50:02.schools. Of course the main target is working with the pupils to
:50:03. > :50:06.inspire them about the future, but I would strongly expect that teachers
:50:07. > :50:10.will be very aware of what is available. It goes back to character
:50:11. > :50:14.and employability skills and being very clear that we want our
:50:15. > :50:22.Dunstable to be prepared for all different kinds of world work. --
:50:23. > :50:27.our pupils. You've referred to the enquiry on multi-Academy trusts and
:50:28. > :50:32.our basic question is that what makes a good trust and we will be
:50:33. > :50:35.inviting others into that inquiry. Lister, you want to talk about
:50:36. > :50:43.character and resilience. I want to take you back to character and
:50:44. > :50:50.chapter six in the White Paper. I welcome the plans to focus schools
:50:51. > :50:54.and boosting mental health and well-being of pupils. Can I ask,
:50:55. > :51:01.what plans are there to target that support in the area of looked after
:51:02. > :51:07.children and chosen on the fringes of care? We are looking at the
:51:08. > :51:12.moment about what we can do in terms of having responsibilities around
:51:13. > :51:17.looked after children. How we would hold people to account for that and
:51:18. > :51:22.that is early work in the department. We know that is a group
:51:23. > :51:26.of children who do need perhaps additional, specific support. I
:51:27. > :51:32.suppose to school level, we want all schools to focus on pupils in this
:51:33. > :51:37.agenda. Spotting there may be children who have particular needs
:51:38. > :51:49.audit experiences where they could you really... BELL RINGS
:51:50. > :51:59.TRANSLATION: There will now be a 20 minute suspension. Really? I need to
:52:00. > :52:14.be somewhere else. We will reconvene and try to get in for 16: 40.
:52:15. > :52:21.Letters recommence our examination of the Secretary of State and
:52:22. > :52:27.particularly character and resilience. One straightforward
:52:28. > :52:33.question. Do you think we need to target resource at children on the
:52:34. > :52:37.fringes of care in terms of mental health and well-being and resilience
:52:38. > :52:41.and character building? I think, yes, but not exclusively. They are
:52:42. > :52:45.children who would benefit but sadly I think there are many other
:52:46. > :52:49.youngsters who also will benefit from teaching and mental well-being
:52:50. > :52:52.and other issues but as I say, in terms of leaders on the fringes and
:52:53. > :53:05.children and kept this is something we are looking at as a department.
:53:06. > :53:12.Two quick questions. What value or impact for will regional schools
:53:13. > :53:14.commissioners bring? Well, I'm not sure about accountability, it's
:53:15. > :53:19.about trading improvement. I know you will have evidence from them
:53:20. > :53:24.about in terms of accountability, one of the benefits of academies is
:53:25. > :53:27.that they are accountable to themselves and of course to parents.
:53:28. > :53:34.And of course there will be inspected by Ofsted and what the
:53:35. > :53:39.commissioners do is identify when there is a problem and help to
:53:40. > :53:43.improve services to whether that is bringing in new teachers or
:53:44. > :53:47.potentially re-brokering in Academy or bringing in new leadership.
:53:48. > :53:52.Strong accountability. We haven't gone onto the financial but the
:53:53. > :53:57.commissioners are there to target those schools in need. I should just
:53:58. > :54:01.say that good and outstanding schools, we want them to get on with
:54:02. > :54:06.doing what they do best. What has been the evidence so far from your
:54:07. > :54:12.perspective of the action and steps taken by raw regional commissioners.
:54:13. > :54:16.I think what interesting is just how well they know their local areas
:54:17. > :54:20.right down to the level of individual schools in individual
:54:21. > :54:24.constituencies and areas. They really do have a handle on what's
:54:25. > :54:29.going on. They are able to broker different solutions but the fact
:54:30. > :54:33.that we have issued notices to improve but also be brokered
:54:34. > :54:38.sponsorships shows real action. We've been in correspondence with
:54:39. > :54:44.the home education and I'm sorry that Marion is not here to share me
:54:45. > :54:48.make this observation, but of course in Scotland there is more regulation
:54:49. > :54:53.from education than in England. Are you thinking of moving in that
:54:54. > :54:56.direction, given the issues of extremism and concern about child
:54:57. > :55:03.protection and the fact that we have some 50,000 children being home
:55:04. > :55:09.educated but actually no need to register with anybody? It is an
:55:10. > :55:13.area, absolutely, of concern. I would like to say that there are
:55:14. > :55:16.many children having home education extremely well and very safe
:55:17. > :55:21.environments and they are getting a very good standard of education from
:55:22. > :55:24.family or from others. But of course, any situation where children
:55:25. > :55:28.could be vulnerable both in terms of safeguarding welfare but also in
:55:29. > :55:32.terms of what they are being taught has to be a concern to the
:55:33. > :55:38.Department. I know that there is an extremely strong view that people
:55:39. > :55:44.would not want to see regulation. I think it's something that I'm very
:55:45. > :55:49.open to listening to further thoughts on. But we are also
:55:50. > :55:53.introducing or want to introduce regulation looking at how we can
:55:54. > :55:58.know where children are because at the moment when a child is
:55:59. > :56:03.deregistered from a school, we don't necessarily know where they're going
:56:04. > :56:10.and it could be that the end up in another school somewhere else which
:56:11. > :56:13.is perfectly reasonable but there are also chosen in home education
:56:14. > :56:16.who are not registered and I think that is a concern. We want to know
:56:17. > :56:22.where children are. You're right, many of them will be well education
:56:23. > :56:25.but what we are guessing at 50,000 or more we can't be sure that all of
:56:26. > :56:31.them are in a safe environment and that is a parallel with the sort of
:56:32. > :56:38.schools which your department has been looking at the meet the radar
:56:39. > :56:42.and it seems that some proposals could be made to tighten both
:56:43. > :56:48.independent schools between the radar and on education. I think all
:56:49. > :56:52.of this area, if we are serious, going back to where we started about
:56:53. > :56:56.excellence but also in terms of education being a thing that opens
:56:57. > :57:02.up young people's' lives then we have to know what is happening in
:57:03. > :57:05.all education settings. On education is something people feel strongly
:57:06. > :57:09.about and in many cases it is done extremely well. Thank you, Nicky. We
:57:10. > :57:13.will be talking about the next Chief Inspector. Sir Michael has never
:57:14. > :57:21.been physically backwards with coming forward is. I just wonder how
:57:22. > :57:25.you will judge the candidates and maintain Ofsted's independence. I'm
:57:26. > :57:29.pleased to say that we have had a really positive level of interest.
:57:30. > :57:36.Some excellent candidates. The job description I'm pretty certain, and
:57:37. > :57:40.stands be corrected, is public so people can see what we want to see.
:57:41. > :57:46.But I think the ability to have someone who can speak without fear
:57:47. > :57:50.or favour to anyone in the Government is very important.
:57:51. > :57:53.Ofsted's role has expanded in recent years and Sir Michael has particular
:57:54. > :57:59.experience in the secondary sector. What consideration has been given to
:58:00. > :58:05.the size of the scope of the sector and the person who may head it? We
:58:06. > :58:08.welcome a really good selection of candidates to make sure that we
:58:09. > :58:12.weren't restricting ourselves just to the people who have worked in
:58:13. > :58:16.schools. We need to make sure we are encouraging applications from a wide
:58:17. > :58:19.range of people and I'm pleased to say that that has happened. That is
:58:20. > :58:25.an interview process that is ongoing. Finally, on Ofsted, that
:58:26. > :58:28.you might remember I talked about the need for the Ofsted process to
:58:29. > :58:33.be something that is done with schools rather than done to schools
:58:34. > :58:36.and you have any plans to change Ofsted's role and structure going
:58:37. > :58:40.forwards? I don't think the role in the sense that I think it's very
:58:41. > :58:46.important to have an independent inspectorate of schools and as you
:58:47. > :58:51.say, other settings, early years, F E, apprenticeship cycles have also
:58:52. > :58:56.been very interested in as well as children's services. We talk... I
:58:57. > :58:59.think is right to say that we don't want schools to be so focused on
:59:00. > :59:03.Ofsted inspection that they lose sight of doing what they do best and
:59:04. > :59:07.what they are most skilled at. Something we talk about in the White
:59:08. > :59:10.Paper is moving the quality of teaching judgment because we don't
:59:11. > :59:16.want teaching practice to be driven by what people Ofsted want. We
:59:17. > :59:20.haven't yet topped about the workload reports. I think that is
:59:21. > :59:23.very important. To make sure that workload is not increased or driven
:59:24. > :59:30.by worry about Ofsted inspections. In terms of framework, I think the
:59:31. > :59:34.very nature if you think about cases in Birmingham, we would not expect
:59:35. > :59:38.Ofsted to be investigating British values but that might be something
:59:39. > :59:43.we have to think about. We are not expecting future changes but we need
:59:44. > :59:47.all these things under review. Thank you. Last but not least, Michelle is
:59:48. > :59:54.going to talk about implementation of the White Paper. Thank you for
:59:55. > :00:00.coming in today. The Prime Minister did say today in Prime Minister
:00:01. > :00:09.questions that the canonisation speech would be in the Queens
:00:10. > :00:12.speech. Would our wider level of... Very when what we talked up the form
:00:13. > :00:17.which is that there are still discussions going on about the exact
:00:18. > :00:20.detail about what authorities could become themselves sponsors of
:00:21. > :00:23.academies so there are a lot of questions around it. Do not think
:00:24. > :00:27.more time would be advisable before we start this? I think as the Prime
:00:28. > :00:32.Minister said today, we cannot pre-empt what will be in the speech
:00:33. > :00:35.that there is a lot more in the White Paper than just the issues
:00:36. > :00:38.around school structure. There is lots to hear that can be done just
:00:39. > :00:43.exactly as I spoke about. The changes to Ofsted but also teacher
:00:44. > :00:47.training, setting of college teachers which does not require
:00:48. > :00:52.legislation at all and we want to work with the professional all the
:00:53. > :00:59.things in the White Paper. I can't say that what the detail of the
:01:00. > :01:02.legislation will be, but I do know from this House that there will be
:01:03. > :01:06.lots of legislative scrutiny both in the Commons and in the House of
:01:07. > :01:11.Lords on any proposals on education including of course the details wife
:01:12. > :01:15.online scrutiny at the committee stage.
:01:16. > :01:27.I want to ask two questions. Pressure from Ofsted inspections is
:01:28. > :01:32.cited as the top three reasons for leaving the profession. The
:01:33. > :01:37.proposals here for referral of Ofsted, how do you see that
:01:38. > :01:44.affecting workload and teacher morale? I mentioned the quality of
:01:45. > :01:50.teaching judgment and having a quality of leadership judgment. That
:01:51. > :01:55.is important. If those listening have a chance to have a look at the
:01:56. > :02:00.report from the three workload groups, there are recommendations
:02:01. > :02:05.for Ofsted and school management. If we were able to take on both those
:02:06. > :02:09.recommendations, we could make a significant difference to the
:02:10. > :02:14.workload of teachers up and down the country. That would help. There are
:02:15. > :02:17.a myriad of reasons why people decide they don't want to stay in
:02:18. > :02:23.teaching and move onto something else. I recognise the fact that
:02:24. > :02:28.Ofsted inspection should not be... There will always be a certain
:02:29. > :02:33.amount of spirit -- stress when any inspection is done. I don't want
:02:34. > :02:40.teaching practice all the way schools are run to be driven by
:02:41. > :02:46.Ofsted. My last question was about the funding of schools. There is a
:02:47. > :02:50.section on that for which many members of this house have been
:02:51. > :02:58.campaigning for it. In Hampshire we have traditionally been
:02:59. > :03:04.disproportionately limited on funding. I wanted to ask a question
:03:05. > :03:10.of when you think this is likely to be implemented and what the overall
:03:11. > :03:15.effect will be? In particular for Hampshire. Icon predict specific
:03:16. > :03:21.areas at the moment because we have just consulted on principles. -- I
:03:22. > :03:28.can't predict. It sets out important principles like the area cost
:03:29. > :03:32.adjustment for places like London but rural sparsity factors. I was
:03:33. > :03:37.talking to one of my colleagues in the lobby about the consultation and
:03:38. > :03:41.the work he is doing with his local headteacher. It is important to
:03:42. > :03:47.remember why we are doing this. It goes back to my original point about
:03:48. > :03:50.consistency across the country and funding has to underpin that. If we
:03:51. > :03:55.are to move to a system where we have a national funding formula,
:03:56. > :03:59.when money is going direct to schools, that is where we want to
:04:00. > :04:04.get to and it is the right thing to do. We see disparities and we have
:04:05. > :04:10.factors of disadvantage which have not kept up with the local
:04:11. > :04:14.demographic developments. It is important and schools are asking the
:04:15. > :04:19.certainty so they will be able to predict more funding that they will
:04:20. > :04:22.have over the next few years which I can completely understand why
:04:23. > :04:32.schools will want to do that. In terms of timing, we would like to
:04:33. > :04:36.start moving onto the next formula. There will be a transitional period
:04:37. > :04:46.and that is something we will need to look at. We are conscious that
:04:47. > :04:52.there are inevitably going to be areas where they will have less and
:04:53. > :04:58.we have to do that in a fair and phased way so that people are not
:04:59. > :05:07.losing unduly and it will stabilise -- destabilise the education may
:05:08. > :05:12.offer. There is a standing spending assessment. Some local authorities
:05:13. > :05:17.used to spend above but some local authorities used to spend below a
:05:18. > :05:25.standard assessment. When I came to those amounts being absorbed, that
:05:26. > :05:28.was for those historical reasons. You can't blame local authorities
:05:29. > :05:35.that have higher levels of spending when they are raising money locally
:05:36. > :05:40.to put schools under the spending assessment that they had 20 years
:05:41. > :05:42.ago. Part of the reason for consulting on principles first was
:05:43. > :05:49.to have those discussions about whether we were looking at the right
:05:50. > :05:53.principles and the formula. I was talking about the formula being
:05:54. > :05:59.developed a decade ago. We can all agree that the demographics, the
:06:00. > :06:07.needs of the local areas have changed hugely in those decades or
:06:08. > :06:12.years since then. That is why the principles need to look at the
:06:13. > :06:15.baseline we have now and how we reflect various factors, including
:06:16. > :06:22.the disadvantage. The formula reflects the needs of the people
:06:23. > :06:28.regardless of where they are. Our behalf of the committee, I want to
:06:29. > :06:34.thank you for being with us. We have to have a break to do our duty to
:06:35. > :06:39.demonstrate our democracy. Thank you very much. You have answered 21
:06:40. > :06:44.questions plus all the supplementary 's which is good. We hope you have
:06:45. > :06:47.enjoyed it and we would be most pleased if you will send our best
:06:48. > :06:57.wishes to the secondary heads which we are about address. We have a
:06:58. > :07:03.lasting interest in their welfare. You have passed your key stage nine.
:07:04. > :07:10.I want to thank members of the committee for being so effective in
:07:11. > :07:12.the questions. Order, order. Thank you.