Live Culture Committee

:00:16. > :00:23.If all the order. Good afternoon, Sir Peter. Mr Henley, very lovely to

:00:24. > :00:28.see you. I apologise for the heat, please feel no compunction about

:00:29. > :00:33.taking off your jacket if that would help you to stay cool, calm and

:00:34. > :00:40.collected in the face of questions from my colleagues. Also can I thank

:00:41. > :00:44.you the very thoughtful and in places said it submission that was

:00:45. > :00:51.made to the enquiry. We are very grateful for that. Can I kick off

:00:52. > :00:57.with you, Mr Henley, and ask what you thought as the incoming Chief

:00:58. > :01:03.Executive of the recent White Paper on culture? I have been with the

:01:04. > :01:09.discount of just over a year now and I have made my business in last 12

:01:10. > :01:12.months to travel the length and breadth of the country is seeing a

:01:13. > :01:16.meeting with people who make great arts and culture happen right across

:01:17. > :01:20.the country. That is something out is very important to us as an arts

:01:21. > :01:23.Council. We are the National development agency for culture in

:01:24. > :01:27.this country. We invest in excellent work and that is the thing that is

:01:28. > :01:31.most important for us. We want to widen access to all parts of the

:01:32. > :01:34.country both geographically and all groups of people in the country and

:01:35. > :01:39.we want great arts organisations and we want to have a skilled workforce.

:01:40. > :01:47.We also want children and young people to be at the heart of what we

:01:48. > :01:50.do to bring of talent and I think the White Paper has two particular

:01:51. > :01:52.things we are working on. One is the great places scheme which we see is

:01:53. > :01:56.taking that message received is very central to our work is taking

:01:57. > :02:00.investment right across the country and also the cultural citizens

:02:01. > :02:04.programme which is about bringing a new generation of people into

:02:05. > :02:08.engagement with arts and culture whoever they are and wherever they

:02:09. > :02:12.are. One of the things that is important to us and is reflected in

:02:13. > :02:15.the White Paper is about increasing investment that we make outside of

:02:16. > :02:20.London and one of the first announcements I made was that by

:02:21. > :02:28.2018, 70 5% of our national lottery revenue will be invested outside of

:02:29. > :02:33.London. It's currently 17 and it was previously 60. The white liberal

:02:34. > :02:37.review all hours to make that happen more and more quickly and

:02:38. > :02:42.effectively and it's something we see as being central to what we do

:02:43. > :02:46.for -- White Paper review. Something we may touch on today is local

:02:47. > :02:49.authority investment in arts and culture and local authorities are

:02:50. > :02:57.the biggest investors in arts and culture. R ?850 million we put into

:02:58. > :03:01.arts and culture in England, the put in ?1.19 billion and we have seen

:03:02. > :03:03.some reductions in spending. That is something that we are actively

:03:04. > :03:07.working with local authorities because it is something we are

:03:08. > :03:11.concerned about. Arts and culture does remain strong in all parts of

:03:12. > :03:16.the country although we will remain vigilant to make sure that remains

:03:17. > :03:22.the case. Thank you for that. What would you have liked to see in the

:03:23. > :03:26.White Paper that was not in it? I suppose we are always greedy for

:03:27. > :03:30.more investment because we believe that arts and culture pays dividends

:03:31. > :03:35.in peoples lives and I think one of the things as arts Council that only

:03:36. > :03:40.I am very keen on is that we invest. We don't subsidise things, we invest

:03:41. > :03:45.in things because they have a set of real benefit in people's' lives and

:03:46. > :03:48.that can change lives because having great creativity and culture around

:03:49. > :03:53.you intrinsically is very important but there are other more

:03:54. > :03:55.instrumentalist benefits so investment in education and giving

:03:56. > :03:59.people better life chances and investment around health and

:04:00. > :04:04.well-being. We know people who are taken arts and culture live happier

:04:05. > :04:07.and healthier lives. Investment in new technology is helping us do

:04:08. > :04:11.things differently and get more arts and culture to more people more

:04:12. > :04:15.often. There are benefits around place making and actually defining

:04:16. > :04:18.our villages, towns and cities across the country and also in

:04:19. > :04:23.building our reputation on the international stage as well. Do you

:04:24. > :04:26.have a view about what the right service obligation should be towards

:04:27. > :04:30.that in order to allow different parts of the country to access

:04:31. > :04:37.culture on the Internet? I don't have an exact figure but I know that

:04:38. > :04:43.it is important that broadband and connectivity is vitally important.

:04:44. > :04:46.One thing we see which we signed an memorandum of understanding with

:04:47. > :04:49.South Korea recently and understanding how important fast

:04:50. > :04:54.broadband is for them and seeing what we can learn from that, I think

:04:55. > :05:00.it is important. The other thing I would say is it's a great method to

:05:01. > :05:03.use particularly for people in rural areas for them to be able to engage

:05:04. > :05:06.with the best art and culture from around the country and bigger

:05:07. > :05:11.metropolitan centres so yes, we would say it's an important part of

:05:12. > :05:15.the jigsaw. Just on the question of broadband infrastructure, I think

:05:16. > :05:18.not just for arts and culture but for the creative industries in

:05:19. > :05:23.general, we are going to need to see much bigger investment generally

:05:24. > :05:30.whether it's by Government or private enterprise in the broadband

:05:31. > :05:33.sphere and it's not just the broadband infrastructure, it's the

:05:34. > :05:38.five and six G mobile which we should not leave out of the equation

:05:39. > :05:41.I think. Together, those things will deliver a massive amounts, not just

:05:42. > :05:44.more public benefit from the arts that massive amounts of growth in

:05:45. > :05:48.the economy. We will not get that if we do not invest in it and at the

:05:49. > :05:55.moment too many people are either excluded despite the good work that

:05:56. > :05:57.has been done towards the 97 or 98% coverage and too many companies

:05:58. > :06:02.don't get the speeds to do what they want to do. We would be very

:06:03. > :06:07.grateful if to the extent you haven't done so already, you and the

:06:08. > :06:15.arts Council could, over a small number of weeks, pulled together

:06:16. > :06:21.some thoughts on this issue and in particular its pretty obviously

:06:22. > :06:25.galvanic to anticipation as well as to enjoyment and if you think that

:06:26. > :06:29.you would have an obligation that the Government should specify is

:06:30. > :06:37.likely to be too low at 10 megabits, as many have suggested, we would be

:06:38. > :06:41.very interested to know your view and that, as at work, from the court

:06:42. > :06:44.is not arts investment. We were suddenly not what you'd hold back if

:06:45. > :06:51.you felt you had views on this issue. If we could broaden it out

:06:52. > :06:56.creating arts and culture to the industry more widely? I think that

:06:57. > :07:02.would be the issue. When a focus on some other things. For either of

:07:03. > :07:05.you, what is the difference in subsidy and investment? The run many

:07:06. > :07:11.companies who provide activities that we subsidise beginning with the

:07:12. > :07:17.British library and going down, how do you draw the difference in

:07:18. > :07:20.subsidy and investment briefly? Is subsidy what happens at the moment

:07:21. > :07:24.and investment is different? We see all of this as investment because we

:07:25. > :07:26.are saying there are sinews of investments in people's lives in

:07:27. > :07:29.making the case for public money to be spent on this, it's about the

:07:30. > :07:33.improvements that it makes in people's lives across the country.

:07:34. > :07:37.We don't see it as something that is money being put into a bottomless

:07:38. > :07:39.pit. There are a fantastic outcome is that actually change places and

:07:40. > :07:44.change people's lives and for that reason I would say more of an

:07:45. > :07:48.investment than a subsidy. Thank you. One thing that is noticeable if

:07:49. > :07:55.you look around the numbers that you have given of the investments that

:07:56. > :08:02.you make is not just the imbalance between London and rural areas, but

:08:03. > :08:06.also... I know people want to pick this up, so much investment outside

:08:07. > :08:09.London is in cities when you talk about the balance of investments,

:08:10. > :08:13.what guarantees do we have as the committee that that money is

:08:14. > :08:18.actually going into activities in the local community by the local

:08:19. > :08:21.community rather than just cream that they get a chance to taste

:08:22. > :08:27.rarely on the occasion of people drop in? 15% of our investment goes

:08:28. > :08:31.to rural areas and 17% of the population are there so we are a bit

:08:32. > :08:34.like the game but not a long way and that is something we would like to

:08:35. > :08:38.see improved. Some of the programmes that we have got, strategic touring

:08:39. > :08:43.for example is a new programme will stop 91% of that is now spent

:08:44. > :08:48.outside of London and 58% of it goes to areas of law engagement so that's

:08:49. > :08:53.about getting the best new work and getting it out around the country.

:08:54. > :08:57.We have a programme of creative people and places which runs in 21

:08:58. > :09:03.places around the country so in Sunderland, where I was on Saturday

:09:04. > :09:08.night where I saw a great night out which was cultural spring, the

:09:09. > :09:12.people and places programme there which was fantastic celebrating

:09:13. > :09:16.Sunderland's heritage. In Stoke-on-Trent there was a programme

:09:17. > :09:22.run by Appetite and in Blackpool is really galvanising Blackpool. Their

:09:23. > :09:26.programme is taking a very tough area economically and bringing art

:09:27. > :09:30.and culture in there in a new way so those programmes are taking

:09:31. > :09:35.bottom-up arts and culture into places of law engagement and really

:09:36. > :09:41.changing them. Thank you. Thank you both for coming. Just following this

:09:42. > :09:46.up on regional spending, Mr Hanley, will you give those figures on how

:09:47. > :09:53.you are going to decentralise your spending from London? For the

:09:54. > :10:01.national lottery revenue, by the end of 2018, 70 5% of it will be spent

:10:02. > :10:05.outside of London, 25% inside. Currently it 70, 30 are split and

:10:06. > :10:09.historically it has been 60, 40, so we are making a five percentage

:10:10. > :10:13.point shift by 2018 and the reason for 2018 is that it's our current

:10:14. > :10:17.framework. Who will be the winners in that new spending pattern?

:10:18. > :10:21.Villages, towns and cities across the country so we would always look

:10:22. > :10:27.to invest in areas where we can see in festival propositions. One thing

:10:28. > :10:30.we have to do is build up infrastructure of the grounds and

:10:31. > :10:37.make sure there are artists and arts organisations in those places... How

:10:38. > :10:42.would you do that? The National pork organisations, particularly in

:10:43. > :10:45.cities whether it is in Leeds or Newcastle or wherever, they are very

:10:46. > :10:56.adept and skilled at putting in their applications and making the

:10:57. > :11:00.case and I get lobbied regularly by other or dieticians and the city is

:11:01. > :11:01.so how will you go back capacity and that awareness to make sure exactly

:11:02. > :11:17.delivered? Quite a lot of the strategic funding

:11:18. > :11:28.isn't available to national portfolio organisations. They get

:11:29. > :11:32.about 69 million of lottery but we invest 250 to 300 depending on the

:11:33. > :11:40.ticket sales every year. The other movie is going to grants for the

:11:41. > :11:44.arts. It is for smaller arts organisations. Strategic touring

:11:45. > :11:51.goes to some but not all. Capital investment goes to some but not all.

:11:52. > :11:57.Some other schemes we will talk about later. Quite a lot of the

:11:58. > :12:04.lottery money, far more than two thirds is not available. It is aimed

:12:05. > :12:15.elsewhere. Who will be the losers in this new sharing out of lottery cash

:12:16. > :12:21.if we will reduce it from 30 to 25%? We will spend our strategic funds in

:12:22. > :12:27.a different way. There will be... Will anyone in London lose out?

:12:28. > :12:34.There will be less money to spend in London. Have those organisations

:12:35. > :12:39.started lobbying you about those already? They constantly lobby us

:12:40. > :12:43.wherever they are in the country. To give you an example, one of the

:12:44. > :12:46.things we were keen to do is where we have areas where there was low

:12:47. > :12:52.engagement like Bradford, we found there were very few local artists

:12:53. > :12:56.starting out and applying for money. We have worked with Bradford Council

:12:57. > :12:59.and put workshops on and brought them through very quickly. We have

:13:00. > :13:07.people on the ground applying for money and come through. We see it as

:13:08. > :13:10.a journey that they will make. There will be large amounts over time. We

:13:11. > :13:18.want to take more people in more parts of the country on that

:13:19. > :13:30.journey. You can just have one game in town. We have to have a series.

:13:31. > :13:38.London is an important world arts centre. It does mean less money for

:13:39. > :13:44.London. The balancing act we are attending at the moment is we have

:13:45. > :13:49.been reducing the amount of money going to London on the signalling

:13:50. > :13:59.its well in advance. I don't believe we have damaged London's arts

:14:00. > :14:05.infrastructure. It is a balancing fact. I am from Huddersfield and we

:14:06. > :14:12.have met in my capacity as chairman. Thank you for investment in brass

:14:13. > :14:23.bands in England. We are between Sheffield, Manchester and Leeds. We

:14:24. > :14:32.have museums that could close and Huddersfield town Hall is behind its

:14:33. > :14:37.refurbishment. When we say the cultural scene is positive and the

:14:38. > :14:51.investments are coming through, people in the town 's, they are

:14:52. > :14:58.losing out. It is all well and good. I have noticed lots of mentions of

:14:59. > :15:13.Manchester and Leeds and the Baltic up in Newcastle. How will we

:15:14. > :15:17.deliver? I went to the festival. I have tweeted the pig. I am very keen

:15:18. > :15:29.that we work in places like Huddersfield. The university

:15:30. > :15:38.partnership was very keen. If we look back, we might have said there

:15:39. > :15:48.was art's councils. How big is your team in Yorkshire to help and

:15:49. > :15:56.assist? We have an office in Leeds. How many people in Leeds? I would

:15:57. > :16:04.estimate 30 people in the Leeds office. With this changing funding,

:16:05. > :16:12.any intentions to change your staffing map across the regions? We

:16:13. > :16:17.need to work effectively with local authorities. We're looking at how we

:16:18. > :16:26.can do that the remit of keeping our core costs down. Office space is a

:16:27. > :16:33.lot cheaper than in central London so if you want to relocate, you will

:16:34. > :16:41.be welcome. One quick question and then we will go to Elliott. We seem

:16:42. > :16:53.to have a woodpecker in the building and we are doing what we can! It is

:16:54. > :17:06.commendable that you are looking to change the balance. How will you

:17:07. > :17:10.measure it? Will you put more money into existing recipients of funding

:17:11. > :17:19.or will it encourage more applicants? We need to invest and

:17:20. > :17:24.measure it in both. We are committed to moving more money into more parts

:17:25. > :17:28.of the country. The test is how many people's lives we can change because

:17:29. > :17:41.of that. There are two matches there. I think we should see that in

:17:42. > :17:47.the context of local authority spending. We need to partner with

:17:48. > :17:49.local authorities and what they are investing and how much they'll

:17:50. > :17:56.investing in different places is going to be a very important part of

:17:57. > :18:00.that. We need to find strong parts among local authorities but we have

:18:01. > :18:07.to look at areas of low intake of taking up. It is aimed at building

:18:08. > :18:11.capacities that don't make any bits because they haven't got arts and

:18:12. > :18:20.destruction. We do both of those things. Bradford is an area where

:18:21. > :18:27.you are building capacity. What other areas ie investing in because

:18:28. > :18:34.you are concerned there isn't enough local opportunity creation? They

:18:35. > :18:40.range right around the country from Medway Kent through to south-east

:18:41. > :18:45.Northumberland in Ashenden, Bedlington, Newbiggin by the sea.

:18:46. > :18:49.These are former mining areas where there is no real cultural

:18:50. > :18:53.infrastructure and there hasn't been a large demand. We have to analyse

:18:54. > :18:59.that and found parts of the country where we are doing that work. St

:19:00. > :19:07.Helens is another example where we have heart of Glass, which is based

:19:08. > :19:10.at the St Helens Rugby League club. There are exciting things happening.

:19:11. > :19:14.We are not sitting in an office doing a top-down view. We are making

:19:15. > :19:17.significant investment and talking to people and taking on a journey

:19:18. > :19:29.involving art and culture in their lives. Sunderland has been a city

:19:30. > :19:34.for 20 years. We did used to be the largest town in the country. Thank

:19:35. > :19:39.you for visiting us on Saturday. I am sorry I couldn't be there. I

:19:40. > :19:47.wanted to ask just on the back of this type of thing, there is a lot

:19:48. > :19:52.of work going on in my area. How are you going to sustain that in the

:19:53. > :19:56.areas that aren't traditionally regions? How would that sustained in

:19:57. > :20:00.the long term because these projects do things and then go off. What are

:20:01. > :20:06.you doing about the sustainability of these kinds of things in the less

:20:07. > :20:12.development cultural areas outside of London? Sunderland is bidding for

:20:13. > :20:21.city of culture. One of the things that is exciting and interesting is

:20:22. > :20:25.the local leadership. People at the University, they are coming together

:20:26. > :20:28.and making a series of decisions to make their place better feel art and

:20:29. > :20:36.culture. That is something that is exciting. -- through art and

:20:37. > :20:39.culture. There is a large-scale application in for the old Fire

:20:40. > :20:45.station. We have taken that through this stage and it has permission out

:20:46. > :20:49.of bed through the second stage. There is some exciting things. There

:20:50. > :20:52.would be a mixture of infrastructure investment but also one of the tests

:20:53. > :20:57.in those places where we have greater improvement is can we get

:20:58. > :21:01.grants for the arts applications from individual artist movement that

:21:02. > :21:06.area? There is an amazing thing that artist can do around changing the

:21:07. > :21:16.place. Margate in Kent is an example of that. There is a whole street

:21:17. > :21:20.worth of artists who are changing the environment in front of them.

:21:21. > :21:29.That is something that is really exciting and we weren't -- won't

:21:30. > :21:39.work with people to make art happen. You have mentioned local

:21:40. > :21:43.authorities. There are massive disparages in funding which clearly

:21:44. > :21:47.the arts are going to have to take a hit en masse. Some regions are doing

:21:48. > :21:52.better than others. How do you see that moving forward and how do you

:21:53. > :21:56.think rural areas will differ from urban areas in terms of how they

:21:57. > :22:04.meet that massive loss which is coming down the line? We have

:22:05. > :22:08.relationships around 260 local authorities around the country and

:22:09. > :22:12.they go from town Council is up to big city councils. One of the things

:22:13. > :22:16.worse is there is quite a challenge now because they are having to cut

:22:17. > :22:21.its budget in a different way. You may have a local authority that has

:22:22. > :22:25.revenue funding that is poor but has building assets. The question is

:22:26. > :22:29.what can we do that helps them to enable that assessment on a local

:22:30. > :22:34.basis into art and culture? We have a number of programmes in place and

:22:35. > :22:39.we have a creative growth fund which has just started. It gives an

:22:40. > :22:47.example of some investment we made in Birmingham. We put off million

:22:48. > :22:51.pounds into a new arts and technology centre which is being run

:22:52. > :22:55.by Birmingham city University and that has leveraged ?3 million of

:22:56. > :23:00.your money and a further ?40 million of Treasury money. We on losing

:23:01. > :23:05.money to do what we came to be leveraged. Our investment become

:23:06. > :23:08.smarter we can hopefully unlock other pounds from elsewhere. Thank

:23:09. > :23:25.you. The international development for

:23:26. > :23:32.the arts is a good encapsulated in but when we think about development

:23:33. > :23:40.agencies in other areas. We tend to think about funding going into the

:23:41. > :23:44.gaps. Most of your funding is arts support rather than arts

:23:45. > :23:50.development. Where are your priorities going forward. A lot of

:23:51. > :23:54.what we do is about making a cash investment but we have a role to

:23:55. > :23:57.play in convening organisations together and bringing local

:23:58. > :24:01.communities together and having conversations around how arts and

:24:02. > :24:11.culture can make a difference. I have been seeing the work that has

:24:12. > :24:14.been done by the cultural parts of Folkestone and a great example of a

:24:15. > :24:18.town which has been completely redefined because of artists coming

:24:19. > :24:27.into the place. Those examples we can share. One of the things we are

:24:28. > :24:35.doing right now is sharing best practice around the country. One of

:24:36. > :24:41.the things is showing breast -- Best practice. There will be places in

:24:42. > :24:54.Cumbria that will be equally relevant to Cornwall. Looking at

:24:55. > :24:57.other projects in my area, we go to local arts organisations that are

:24:58. > :25:05.helping to deliver support in the arts and cultural area that had

:25:06. > :25:07.little infrastructure before. Do you seek criteria for further

:25:08. > :25:11.developments? If you continue to invest, you want to see growing

:25:12. > :25:20.participation, growing opportunities where other people parts of the arts

:25:21. > :25:24.and your work? We have an agreement with all of our operations. One of

:25:25. > :25:33.the things I am concerned that we can do better on, is around widening

:25:34. > :25:35.diversity within the arts organisations both in terms of

:25:36. > :25:40.people working in the arts world but in terms of the art that is being

:25:41. > :25:45.funded. We make sure it is relevant that everybody on the 21st-century.

:25:46. > :25:51.That is something that is very important verse and widening that

:25:52. > :25:56.out is key and LB measures that are talked about. Do you feel that has

:25:57. > :26:05.happened? It has started and we have a long way to go. Disability is a

:26:06. > :26:10.lot of work that still needs to be done. It tends to be good upstanding

:26:11. > :26:14.people and we have a long way to make sure the disability arts in

:26:15. > :26:19.terms of the art commissioned and in terms of representation on stage is

:26:20. > :26:22.happening. I am pleased we have something called ramps on the moon

:26:23. > :26:28.which is our biggest touring fund. ?2 million based at the theatre in

:26:29. > :26:37.Ipswich witches touring the theatres around half a dozen theatres around

:26:38. > :26:40.the country is -- Ipswich witches touring theatres around the country.

:26:41. > :26:54.It is working brilliantly. Do you think there is a widening of

:26:55. > :26:57.participation in the arts? Yes, something the statistics don't often

:26:58. > :27:04.capture that we may come onto more after words is education. We ask and

:27:05. > :27:07.require our national portfolio will education to have educational

:27:08. > :27:11.outreach and we judge 80% of the now to have good outreach facilities and

:27:12. > :27:17.we are on the other is to improve this. Latest assist its I have for a

:27:18. > :27:25.full year are 8 million schoolchildren had 14 million arts

:27:26. > :27:30.in cultured which is going to an art gallery or etc. And that's not

:27:31. > :27:34.taking into account the DC MS which has been going up over arts and more

:27:35. > :27:38.broadly arts and entertainment at those numbers are. So I think we

:27:39. > :27:41.should remember the education numbers. We have made really good

:27:42. > :27:45.progress there and if you look at a specific project like the Royal

:27:46. > :27:48.Shakespeare Company in its anniversary Shakespeare year, I

:27:49. > :27:54.think it's reaching more than 400,000 schoolchildren putting video

:27:55. > :27:58.live of their productions into school with duration and explanation

:27:59. > :28:03.as well. That is one example. It's million schoolchildren are coming

:28:04. > :28:05.into contact with arts and culture via funded organisations and that's

:28:06. > :28:12.a good example of how we are widening participation. It's sounds

:28:13. > :28:16.a good example but for the adult population as well, how do we widen

:28:17. > :28:21.participation or are we at the funding the same people having more

:28:22. > :28:26.and more access to art that they are otherwise engaged with? It's

:28:27. > :28:30.something we need to do better at it I think we are on journeys make that

:28:31. > :28:35.happen more and it has to be, certainly from my point of view, I

:28:36. > :28:38.believe the arts Council has a moral obligation to widen out

:28:39. > :28:41.participation in arts and culture to as many people in the country as

:28:42. > :28:47.possible and our investments as she going forward will be made on that

:28:48. > :28:54.basis. Two more questions. You mentioned something I was quick to

:28:55. > :28:57.bring up. An arts organisation that the arts Council reviewed its

:28:58. > :29:01.spending five years ago and they lost all of their funding and

:29:02. > :29:08.nonetheless kept going and they are now bidding for funding for

:29:09. > :29:11.additional projects. How typical is this experience as a small

:29:12. > :29:15.organisation with other organisations that the arts Council

:29:16. > :29:20.have dealt with and how in your review has arts organisations manage

:29:21. > :29:23.to keep going? Have they built it successfully, have they changed

:29:24. > :29:26.their model in terms of how they seek support from other partners as

:29:27. > :29:32.a consequence of the following grant funding? In 2010 we faced a large

:29:33. > :29:35.reduction in so we tough decisions and organisations like strange cargo

:29:36. > :29:39.boat which we fund in a different way and I saw a great exhibition

:29:40. > :29:46.around Gurkha soldiers there when I was down in Folkestone, I think that

:29:47. > :29:49.what we have done is held or organisation become more sustainable

:29:50. > :29:55.so the contributed revenue that is coming from other sources is growing

:29:56. > :29:59.so running at about 19% from London organisations. Having said that, we

:30:00. > :30:03.know it's tougher to raise money outside of London so we are doing a

:30:04. > :30:07.lot of work with our catalyst fund which is our fund that touts arts

:30:08. > :30:12.organisations to increase their sustainability and resilience and

:30:13. > :30:16.that is a ?70 million fund. 70% of that has been sent outside London

:30:17. > :30:21.and we have set up a programme of arts fundraising fellows, giving

:30:22. > :30:23.them specific training in arts fundraising and 70% of those are

:30:24. > :30:27.again outside London's we are working hard to make sure

:30:28. > :30:32.organisations are able to not just rely on public funding but be able

:30:33. > :30:36.to diversify. We also do another round of deals next year, starting

:30:37. > :30:42.this autumn, the decisions next spring and summer. That will be for

:30:43. > :30:49.the next entry all deal for fewer four years depending. We are

:30:50. > :30:52.confident but quite a few successful deals in that sound will come from

:30:53. > :30:57.arts funding so that as a nursery. It is not the only way of being

:30:58. > :31:02.funded. That goes France funding which we have put up year-on-year

:31:03. > :31:07.because the lottery is relatively stable as opposed to increasing. --

:31:08. > :31:13.relatively stable if not increasing. One sign of success is that we are

:31:14. > :31:18.able to fund organisations that get onto a regular basis and then they

:31:19. > :31:23.are able to grow into DN PO portfolio and I'm confident the next

:31:24. > :31:29.year we will have examples of that -- NPO. People who go on to become a

:31:30. > :31:34.NPO, you fund them on that basis, they then remain on that. Or do you

:31:35. > :31:39.beat is every time and some people drop off the end and people get

:31:40. > :31:42.underfunded because frankly they are meant to get money from other

:31:43. > :31:47.sources or other not doing a good enough job? We will have a brand-new

:31:48. > :31:53.portfolio from 2018 onwards we would start again, everyone applies. There

:31:54. > :31:57.is no automatic entry. So you could have different organisations funded

:31:58. > :32:01.from one to another and the new ones could be fewer rather than more in

:32:02. > :32:08.some cases if he felt the need was greater than they deserved more. So

:32:09. > :32:11.basically, the end of this year a will make an application and every

:32:12. > :32:16.one who wishes to become a NPO will be assessed and next summer we will

:32:17. > :32:20.give about nine months notice to everybody whether they are in or out

:32:21. > :32:32.of the portfolio from 2018 onwards. How do you... Alas for's ran about

:32:33. > :32:37.five .5 existing MPO 's left the portfolio and were no longer funded

:32:38. > :32:42.and I think probably because we increased the portfolio very

:32:43. > :32:47.slightly, I think is that higher percentage joined and this time

:32:48. > :32:50.we're fairly confident, I don't know how many will leave that we are

:32:51. > :32:56.confident we will be able to increase the number even more.

:32:57. > :33:01.Finally on that, how do you stop the negative incentive whereby people

:33:02. > :33:05.don't raise as much money or demonstrate independent fundraising

:33:06. > :33:11.because they don't want to be sufficiently independent freedom to

:33:12. > :33:22.be downgraded on the NPO? A moral hazard in a way. We require in our

:33:23. > :33:25.agreement with NPOs several items such as increasing diversity. So we

:33:26. > :33:29.will judge them on that. I'm not saying that alone would mean you got

:33:30. > :33:38.in didn't get on to the portfolio but it is one of the rings that we

:33:39. > :33:42.will judge them on. The money raised philanthropic way, has been going up

:33:43. > :33:46.since 2010 but I would say that the most interesting thing that has been

:33:47. > :33:53.going up in that overall cake if you like of revenues is commercial

:33:54. > :34:00.revenues. The actual cake of the NPOs despite aid being cut by around

:34:01. > :34:04.30% the cake has got bigger. It has got bigger because good people are

:34:05. > :34:10.driving is organisations and driving forward commercial revenue. As

:34:11. > :34:13.others extent, they are driving their fundraising so the evidence is

:34:14. > :34:16.that there is not a lack of incentive. They are trying very hard

:34:17. > :34:24.to diversity I and in many cases they are succeeding. To finish off.

:34:25. > :34:29.Your last answer leads and what I want to talk about which is about

:34:30. > :34:35.private support. We have this mixed funding model in the UK and part is

:34:36. > :34:42.very significant. As we talked about, I know you're very familiar

:34:43. > :34:50.with Kent and market and elsewhere, to what extent... What you think we

:34:51. > :34:54.can do to attract more individuals to make a significant contribution

:34:55. > :34:59.to the arts? And do you think that in your criteria for judging the

:35:00. > :35:02.success of arts organisations that a demonstration that they are doing a

:35:03. > :35:10.good job is that they themselves can attract more support from other

:35:11. > :35:15.individuals or companies? A couple of caveats. Let's look at commercial

:35:16. > :35:18.revenue is the most significant item because that is the easiest to do

:35:19. > :35:20.and the second caveat is that fundraising in some parts of the

:35:21. > :35:28.country is extremely difficult. Having said that, there is good

:35:29. > :35:34.performance. High teas, was quoted as a percentage of revenue in London

:35:35. > :35:38.but I think I'm right to say that 13% of NPO in the east is

:35:39. > :35:41.fundraising and in the West is 10% is they have made a really big

:35:42. > :35:51.advances there. How do we do that? Catalyst which I want an pack now,

:35:52. > :35:54.is part of that. We afford very hard and training boards and executive in

:35:55. > :35:58.fundraising skills. We have even set up with the University of Leeds

:35:59. > :36:05.accrediting a professional fundraisers provocation --

:36:06. > :36:08.qualification for a cohort of graduates going into fundraising

:36:09. > :36:13.with professional qualifications. Overall though, I would say that the

:36:14. > :36:17.arts sector has a challenge. We did some research three or four years

:36:18. > :36:21.ago that showed only 8% of the population recognised arts and

:36:22. > :36:24.cultural organisations as charities. That is a marketing and

:36:25. > :36:27.communications challenge because arts and culture organisations have

:36:28. > :36:32.to go in and compete with other health charities and the like to get

:36:33. > :36:37.some of that money so there is still a mountain to climb in a way because

:36:38. > :36:41.I think instinctively a lot of our arts producers and arts

:36:42. > :36:44.professionals, quite understandably, say they are an artist not charity

:36:45. > :36:50.but they need to say, I deliver these public benefits. That is an

:36:51. > :36:53.object of charity and therefore we would be good recipients. There are

:36:54. > :36:58.some things to learn and we could get better but it is improving. And

:36:59. > :37:03.there are areas in a country where it has improved. Do you think there

:37:04. > :37:08.are good case studies of organisations that have good local

:37:09. > :37:11.strategy for arts that involve not only attracting funding from the

:37:12. > :37:18.arts Council colossal development partnerships with a range of local

:37:19. > :37:21.records. Absolutely. I think the first speech I ever gave a few years

:37:22. > :37:24.ago I said that we need a grand partnership. I was speaking between

:37:25. > :37:28.business and local authorities and universities. It is happening more

:37:29. > :37:33.and more. Darren just mentioned Sunderland and is partly also a

:37:34. > :37:36.question of leadership. If we dig a great local leader with great

:37:37. > :37:40.passion of arts and culture who attracts other money in from a

:37:41. > :37:43.variety of sources because of his passion and his belief and his

:37:44. > :37:48.leadership, we need that kind of leadership across the boards which

:37:49. > :37:51.can be done. Just to pick up on a couple of things there, you have

:37:52. > :37:55.painted a very rosy picture of the art scene flourishing in many

:37:56. > :38:01.different ways and increasing commercial revenue despite cuts from

:38:02. > :38:06.grants and eight. I'm just surprised that it's something we haven't heard

:38:07. > :38:12.much so far which is concern about local Government spending and I'm

:38:13. > :38:16.also surprised that in your analysis of the White Paper, both of view

:38:17. > :38:20.didn't say something which I would expect you to say which is that

:38:21. > :38:25.ministers might be pulling their hair out with anger that local

:38:26. > :38:29.Government is clobbering the capacity of investment in the arts

:38:30. > :38:34.to be effective. You are nodding. I shall you accept that point. The

:38:35. > :38:40.point I was going to make was that the White Paper properly pointed to

:38:41. > :38:46.the importance of local funding in arts and culture but it didn't offer

:38:47. > :38:52.strategies for the future which we've all got to work on and I note

:38:53. > :38:58.the CMS agree with this. Arguably, it failed to address the central

:38:59. > :39:01.charity. Well, I call it the biggest challenge facing arts and culture

:39:02. > :39:05.now. My earlier remarks when you said putting a rosy picture, I don't

:39:06. > :39:08.want to undersell the successes that many great arts leaders and many

:39:09. > :39:12.local authorities committed arts and culture and achieving around the

:39:13. > :39:16.country. I'd want to undersell that. I don't understand the fact that

:39:17. > :39:20.he's me for arts and culture, the coherent case, got a reasonable

:39:21. > :39:25.settlement the Autumn Statement from the Chancellor. We don't undersell

:39:26. > :39:29.the successes. I think both of us believe that we have done quite well

:39:30. > :39:32.up to now but we are seriously concerned, as I have said and I am

:39:33. > :39:36.on the record as saying, seriously concerned about what might happen if

:39:37. > :39:43.local authority cuts to arts and culture happen at greater pace over

:39:44. > :39:47.the next four years and therefore we think you're hearing is extremely

:39:48. > :39:50.timely and we hope you will join with others in exploring what will

:39:51. > :39:55.strategies might be because they are very much needed. I won't criticise

:39:56. > :39:58.the White Paper because it did point to the importance of local funding,

:39:59. > :40:05.but I would say the next step after the White Paper is to work out what

:40:06. > :40:14.the strategies are. Thank you. Just, I read the speech you gave Sir Peter

:40:15. > :40:20.on the local Government network paper which identified what had gone

:40:21. > :40:23.on in the past, but it didn't produce any best estimate of how

:40:24. > :40:31.much that local authority reduction was going to be. What is your best

:40:32. > :40:38.guess? Well, we can tell you what has happened. Well, I know what has

:40:39. > :40:42.happened. What is your best guess? Your query said this is the biggest

:40:43. > :40:46.challenge and we can't step into play but Hall. What is your best

:40:47. > :40:51.estimate about what the hole is going to be? I don't have one

:40:52. > :40:56.because it really depends on what local individually is our going to

:40:57. > :40:58.do and we know plenty of local authorities are getting behind arts

:40:59. > :41:03.and culture despite the pressure they are under. It also depends on

:41:04. > :41:06.how fast the cost of social care which is a statutory obligation goes

:41:07. > :41:14.What I will same is, as you say, we What I will same is, as you say, we

:41:15. > :41:25.have the figure of 70% since... If it was 30%, that would be a real

:41:26. > :41:29.problem and would lead to closures. We very concerned. I don't have an

:41:30. > :41:35.estimate because I don't know how local authorities are going to

:41:36. > :41:44.respond. Within the realms of that uncertainty, it could be worse, do

:41:45. > :41:52.you think? It is possible. It is a matter of great concern. That would

:41:53. > :41:56.to closures? We have done fairly well up to now but we have not had

:41:57. > :42:05.widespread closures of museums or libraries. If you had a very high

:42:06. > :42:07.cut and many councils departing the scene, it is not something the arts

:42:08. > :42:27.Council will be able to stop. My local Bell -- Borough Council

:42:28. > :42:34.faces the loss of its Government support. Business rates come back

:42:35. > :42:42.and we will be allowed to fend for yourself. We are seeing no clear

:42:43. > :42:48.sign of green shoots of growth in North Staffordshire and many

:42:49. > :42:55.industrial areas. The temptation is the local authorities to keep

:42:56. > :43:02.cutting and the temptation must be greater if they can look at

:43:03. > :43:11.organisations and say, "You are being funded by the arts Council."

:43:12. > :43:15.How you balancing those tensions? We were very critical of Westminster

:43:16. > :43:24.City Council withdrawing its funding and relying on you and the added

:43:25. > :43:29.pain. How you manage and attention and the messages you are given to

:43:30. > :43:30.local authorities? We have been talking to a lot of local

:43:31. > :43:48.authorities up and down the country. We are talking to a lot of local

:43:49. > :43:53.authorities and those decisions of quite bespoke because they are

:43:54. > :44:04.facing different challenges. One of the examples we can use in your part

:44:05. > :44:08.of the world is around appetite. One area is doing very well and that is

:44:09. > :44:12.leveraging more support and more understanding for the local

:44:13. > :44:16.authority. They are seeing the value of what art and culture does in that

:44:17. > :44:20.area. One of the things we need to do is to show how our investment is

:44:21. > :44:25.making a difference. But we had a positive settlement in the spending

:44:26. > :44:30.Review, what we have got is enough money to make up the difference. We

:44:31. > :44:34.have to be clear with local authorities that we are making

:44:35. > :44:41.funding decisions on the basis that they remain investable propositions

:44:42. > :44:45.going forward. There has to be other funding sources there and we need

:44:46. > :44:52.other people to step up to the plate. Stoke-on-Trent is next door

:44:53. > :45:02.to me and they haven't had much direct contact. I found my joy that

:45:03. > :45:06.the great French traditions of having cameras at well with stations

:45:07. > :45:12.is not just that Saint Pancras. They have the mat Stoke-on-Trent. Now it

:45:13. > :45:20.has gone but can they put it back because the French have them

:45:21. > :45:26.permanently? I don't know what the outlook is that appetite but what I

:45:27. > :45:34.am trying to get a sense from you is that when you send your speech, if

:45:35. > :45:41.you are in Wareham, is it right for local authorities to conclude that

:45:42. > :45:46.if you are out, we are out? We have the most impossible balancing act to

:45:47. > :45:53.perform. We intend to perform it. That balancing act is that if the

:45:54. > :45:55.thought was you can cut as a local authority your arts and cultural

:45:56. > :46:00.provision with impunity because the arts Council would fill the gap, we

:46:01. > :46:05.physically don't have the money. That is another example of the

:46:06. > :46:09.phrase we used earlier. Therefore it is the case that in some

:46:10. > :46:12.circumstances I expect in the next three to four years that the arts

:46:13. > :46:16.Council will have to withdraw funding because it would be a proper

:46:17. > :46:19.place to put public money in an institution that might be failing

:46:20. > :46:25.because of the source of revenue have been cut. Balanced against that

:46:26. > :46:31.is our very strong belief that we don't want the public to suffer and

:46:32. > :46:35.we don't want people in low arts take up to suffer. We have to

:46:36. > :46:40.balance these things and it is a very difficult balancing act. That

:46:41. > :46:49.is what we are faced with and we will have to withdraw from some

:46:50. > :46:54.places. You said beyond 2018, you are looking to increase the number

:46:55. > :47:03.of portfolio organisations. Your settlement doesn't go beyond 2018.

:47:04. > :47:10.How do you take that view? What budget assumptions are you working

:47:11. > :47:14.with? We had one year of visibility for the year 15/60 which is the

:47:15. > :47:17.comprehensive spending review that the Chancellor did before the

:47:18. > :47:23.election. What we said was we are giving you a three-year contract, we

:47:24. > :47:31.are assuming standstill in 2000 and -- standstill but we do know what it

:47:32. > :47:39.might be. We have better visibility because there is a four-year CSO

:47:40. > :47:43.going forward. In terms of the next round, it means it has two years of

:47:44. > :47:50.visibility. We are in a better place than we were last time. I don't

:47:51. > :47:54.think not being in sync with the CSR routine should stop is making three

:47:55. > :47:59.or four year agreements because we must encourage arts organisations to

:48:00. > :48:09.plan properly. Final question on this section. The White Paper comes

:48:10. > :48:16.with inevitable reviews and I noticed the word is tailored reviews

:48:17. > :48:22.whereas museums it is white reviews. What is it tailored to? This

:48:23. > :48:32.replaces the review that was held. This will be the review into the

:48:33. > :48:45.workings of the council. Tailored? Tailored to what or do you not know?

:48:46. > :48:49.The true answer is we don't know. Some reviews of other public

:48:50. > :48:54.organisations intended to take three months and have taken longer. I

:48:55. > :49:00.believe the intention is to make this fairly swift and concentrated

:49:01. > :49:09.if they can. That may be the meaning of the word tailored. I would be

:49:10. > :49:20.very hopeful that you would all contribute to the view. Thank you

:49:21. > :49:24.very much. Following on from the questions about local authority

:49:25. > :49:27.funding, it is clearly something that is bothering you and it is

:49:28. > :49:31.clearly something that might upset the apple cart in a way and all the

:49:32. > :49:42.good work you are doing might be undermined by the fact that there

:49:43. > :49:49.are huge cuts at local level. There must be a temptation within local

:49:50. > :50:00.authorities to see the arts as the easy option to cuts. Have you found

:50:01. > :50:06.that? When I talk about 17% cuts, it is 2010. We are not happy to see it.

:50:07. > :50:11.The overall cut to a local authority funding in that time was 25%. A

:50:12. > :50:17.non-statutory obligation got cut less than might have been cut by 30,

:50:18. > :50:26.40, 50%. The reason for that is we are better at making the case. It is

:50:27. > :50:33.well understood locally. What are you doing to make sure it isn't the

:50:34. > :50:44.easy option? What we have done since 2013 as a

:50:45. > :50:47.sector is make a better case for the value of arts and culture with the

:50:48. > :50:56.help of many people in this building I might add. There is the intrinsic

:50:57. > :50:59.value, the social value, health, prisons, care homes. All those

:51:00. > :51:05.places you see great benefits been delivered. This relationship between

:51:06. > :51:10.education and the arts and culture and the economic base -- local

:51:11. > :51:17.benefits. Britain's reputation abroad. This whole picture is better

:51:18. > :51:22.understood now than it was. We find that where there is a leader of the

:51:23. > :51:28.local council who gets that, we get them the arguments. We have placed

:51:29. > :51:34.these arguments on special videos on our at website. They can use that

:51:35. > :51:42.with their colleagues to argue the case. In your constituency, there is

:51:43. > :51:46.a great example. It is bringing together theatre, a cinema which

:51:47. > :51:50.there isn't in their heart of Chester and the local library. You

:51:51. > :51:55.have a local library that will be open for as many hours a day that

:51:56. > :51:58.the theatre is open. You have a local authority that we are working

:51:59. > :52:03.in partnership with you are making a real difference and an understanding

:52:04. > :52:07.of cultural destinations which is one of our programmes which looks at

:52:08. > :52:14.investment in arts and culture as a tourist activity. In Cornwall, they

:52:15. > :52:18.are looking at how they can take Cornwall and make it an arts and

:52:19. > :52:22.cultural destination for the whole year round and not just for the

:52:23. > :52:27.summer, using the buildings and is the art infrastructure. We have

:52:28. > :52:39.programmes in place around the area. Is there a danger that those areas

:52:40. > :52:47.are not poor and they might have art poverty compounded by these areas

:52:48. > :52:51.and by further cuts? The gap between arts riches and art poverty becomes

:52:52. > :52:57.greater. Is it something that you will have a role to try and bridge?

:52:58. > :53:00.It is a risk but it is something we tried very hard to bridge because we

:53:01. > :53:05.want to work in those areas where there has traditionally been less

:53:06. > :53:14.arts. At the same time we want to make sure those places can still

:53:15. > :53:22.flourish. What do you do in areas where there is no local authority

:53:23. > :53:28.money? I think locally in my own county, they are looking at

:53:29. > :53:34.significant cuts and matters including an anticipated ?21 million

:53:35. > :53:44.plug. They have no guarantee of getting this from central

:53:45. > :53:48.Government. If one is following the logic of this, they will have no

:53:49. > :53:54.choice but to do things that they would prefer not to. The question is

:53:55. > :53:57.how can you make use of certain that you are not really displacing

:53:58. > :54:03.funding by trying to keep the embers going in those parts of the country

:54:04. > :54:08.at all? It is a challenge and a challenge which we have to face. One

:54:09. > :54:14.of the things is quite often we can see examples of areas where because

:54:15. > :54:21.of one moment or one seismic event in that area, suddenly local opinion

:54:22. > :54:27.can be changed. Weston-Super-Mare and dismal land changed the way

:54:28. > :54:30.people saw arts and country -- culture. Many people are investing

:54:31. > :54:41.in arts and culture because it provided economic impetus into the

:54:42. > :54:44.town. I am a massive fan of the work the universities are doing. In

:54:45. > :54:49.Herefordshire I am excited about the University coming in because there

:54:50. > :54:54.is something we know where universities are run by literate

:54:55. > :54:58.people and they want to make the places where they shame a name with

:54:59. > :55:10.it, great places to study and great places for academics to go and bring

:55:11. > :55:13.up their families. The critical thing is local capacity. It is local

:55:14. > :55:19.talent creating local arts organisations which reflect the

:55:20. > :55:22.local culture. That is what is at risk able to local authority

:55:23. > :55:27.funding. We are clear on that. In circumstances where there is 100%

:55:28. > :55:32.cut and there are very few examples of that already, there are other

:55:33. > :55:36.things that the arts Council can do that though fully answer the

:55:37. > :55:44.question but go some way to do. More than half of our touring productions

:55:45. > :55:49.already go to areas of low arts engagement. We could look at how we

:55:50. > :55:54.improve that. We should look at the digital dividend. I was in

:55:55. > :56:00.Sheringham Little Theatre which is the tip of North Norfolk and I was

:56:01. > :56:06.there a matter of a month ago. With some trepidation they started take

:56:07. > :56:09.the event they live. They thought it might damage the local productions.

:56:10. > :56:14.What it has done is given the people in North Norfolk the joy and

:56:15. > :56:18.pleasure of productions in the National Theatre stop it has given a

:56:19. > :56:22.new Remie -- a revenue stream and brought people into the theatre that

:56:23. > :56:26.weren't there earlier. It is another example of content which runs

:56:27. > :56:30.alongside it. There are other things that we can do that we will need to

:56:31. > :56:33.look at seamlessly to make sure people in areas that are hit by

:56:34. > :56:38.large cuts are not completely impoverished.

:56:39. > :56:49.My local authority how can confidently say hasn't cut its arts

:56:50. > :56:54.and culture budget in recent years. The only problem is in 2014, they

:56:55. > :56:58.didn't spend any thing so you're not really cutting any thing if you're

:56:59. > :57:04.not spending any thing so that is a significant concern to me. You

:57:05. > :57:10.mentioned earlier that she work with 260 local authorities which I think

:57:11. > :57:15.leaves about 50 local authorities or maybe a few higher. It is at this

:57:16. > :57:22.more than a concern that areas like mine perhaps not engaging up all

:57:23. > :57:25.with the arts Council and I wondered, what is your strategy to

:57:26. > :57:33.ensure that authorities like mine engage with you, know what is

:57:34. > :57:38.available. We have the assets, we have built a brand-new apathy at

:57:39. > :57:45.five years ago by the Riverside -- amp if it which -- theatre which is

:57:46. > :57:51.not used very often. They are not very many venues. I don't think

:57:52. > :57:55.there is a lot of desire in the area for arts and culture but what can

:57:56. > :58:00.you do to get into the smaller local councils to let them know what is

:58:01. > :58:06.available and how they can take advantage of what you can offer? I

:58:07. > :58:12.believe quite passionately, one of the things I said when I got this

:58:13. > :58:18.job was that I spend most of my life outside of London and I sat in town

:58:19. > :58:25.hall with one employee... That is the town council. I sat down with

:58:26. > :58:30.him and we had a conversation about what we could do to help development

:58:31. > :58:35.because he is a one-man band in there and I think we need to do more

:58:36. > :58:39.in places like your constituency to encourage people to be more

:58:40. > :58:43.demanding of us and ivory keen that that happens and I think the

:58:44. > :58:47.direction of travel we will go in and our investment strategy over the

:58:48. > :58:50.coming years will be to do that. We also want to say that this is places

:58:51. > :58:55.where artists can come and live and set up their lives and work so one

:58:56. > :58:58.of the challenges when you talk to young artist in London is that they

:58:59. > :59:03.will say that they can no longer afford to live and work in London

:59:04. > :59:07.and so I say, fantastic, we have places around the country where

:59:08. > :59:11.there are buildings in local areas where we could be galvanised by

:59:12. > :59:16.artists and beautiful parts of the world. You want people to be there

:59:17. > :59:20.and be inspired and have areas of creativity and production there. It

:59:21. > :59:24.is that directing Casement that I was referring to with the local

:59:25. > :59:30.authority. I'm glad you saw the town council. That is a fantastic

:59:31. > :59:33.facility and they struggle in terms of employing one person but they put

:59:34. > :59:38.on great performances for the local community. At the District Council

:59:39. > :59:42.above them does not have an arts officer. As I said, it has not cut

:59:43. > :59:48.anything because it has not spent any thing on arts and culture. Can

:59:49. > :59:54.you assure me, I'm sorry to be sold local, but can you assure me that

:59:55. > :00:00.one of your leaves office serves 20 miles of the road will at least for

:00:01. > :00:06.mass. I can absolutely guarantee that will happen. But what we will

:00:07. > :00:13.need to, very quickly, what we need to encourage with your help is that

:00:14. > :00:16.one person on the council, whoever they are, that local councillor who

:00:17. > :00:19.really understands the value of arts and culture that we can work with

:00:20. > :00:27.them to influence other colleagues. If none of them get it, it's not an

:00:28. > :00:30.easy task. A bit of love and attention from yourselves I think

:00:31. > :00:35.would do wonders with councils like Selby. I'm sure there are others.

:00:36. > :00:41.Can I change tack a bit? You mentioned earlier philanthropy. Do

:00:42. > :00:47.we do enough of it in this country? Is there enough of it? The British

:00:48. > :00:50.in general are quite generous if you compare us to other countries. We

:00:51. > :00:54.don't do enough of is raising money effectively for arts and culture. We

:00:55. > :00:58.are getting better at it. It is growing but not as quickly as

:00:59. > :01:01.commercial revenues into and culture so we need to look at why multiple

:01:02. > :01:06.don't understand that arts and culture organisations deliver a

:01:07. > :01:12.public benefit and our charities and that is down to many of us in the

:01:13. > :01:16.sector articulating those facts more effectively. And then it is into

:01:17. > :01:19.improving fundraising infrastructure and I mentioned earlier the new

:01:20. > :01:23.course we have happens in the work we are doing around the country. We

:01:24. > :01:27.have some very good and experienced philanthropists who is our pest go

:01:28. > :01:33.around and talk to boards and executives to improve fundraising

:01:34. > :01:41.capacity and skills and talent. Could we be doing any thing? The UK

:01:42. > :01:46.has had a real research and is and is a tax efficient way of investing.

:01:47. > :01:51.Should there not be conversations with the Treasury that are not

:01:52. > :01:57.perhaps being hand will you could be encouraging the Chancellor to look

:01:58. > :01:59.at how people who are investing in individuals and arts and culture

:02:00. > :02:05.could benefit in some way in this accident? It's not a philanthropic

:02:06. > :02:10.point. We should not forget the tax credit is that we have had over the

:02:11. > :02:16.last three or four years which now extends to theatre, dance, opera,

:02:17. > :02:20.orchestras and as announced in the budgets, museums and galleries. That

:02:21. > :02:25.is not philanthropy. What I would say about the fundraising, many

:02:26. > :02:29.givers and owners and potential donors don't use the existing

:02:30. > :02:33.benefits and I think absolute priority for us would be to get able

:02:34. > :02:37.to understand what the existing tax breaks are. Gift aid is not fully

:02:38. > :02:43.claimed where it should be. Then there is the idea that was brought

:02:44. > :02:50.in about five or six years ago, if you give more than 10% of your

:02:51. > :02:56.estate to charity when you die, you get a reduction in state duty of 40%

:02:57. > :03:00.to 36%. If you had already made donations in your Will of about five

:03:01. > :03:06.or 6%, you could double that at no additional cost to your estate. When

:03:07. > :03:10.I was standing in a room helping an opera company raise money, 100

:03:11. > :03:15.people wanted to give money and we had a famous singer on the stage. I

:03:16. > :03:19.made a speech about giving money to the opera. 99 out of 100 people who

:03:20. > :03:24.wanted to give money did not know about that tax break two years after

:03:25. > :03:29.it came in. This is a challenge to us. People should know about these

:03:30. > :03:36.existing tax breaks. Should we also be looking at trying to redevelop

:03:37. > :03:40.the links that we saw in the 19th century between cultural

:03:41. > :03:47.institutions and industry? I think so. I think having been in the

:03:48. > :03:51.public sector for a year and having come from the private sector I think

:03:52. > :03:55.absolutely. One of the areas which is very exciting is again with

:03:56. > :03:59.industries and investment in place, they wanted to be a great place to

:04:00. > :04:04.live and work and I think that actually arts and culture make

:04:05. > :04:07.places great and some of the exciting places we go around the

:04:08. > :04:11.country right now that we see have arts and culture at the heart of

:04:12. > :04:14.their investment and a good example would be if you talk to the Chief

:04:15. > :04:20.Executive of Exeter Council, the first place he takes anyone who is

:04:21. > :04:25.interested in his job title as director of growth is to the museum

:04:26. > :04:29.there which he is very in excited about. He says this is the place,

:04:30. > :04:32.great museum at the heart of our city that he wants big multinational

:04:33. > :04:38.companies to come and see us stop this is somewhere where your high

:04:39. > :04:41.schools employees could come and live and work and bring their

:04:42. > :04:57.families. Arts and culture make a place. Thank you for that. Can we go

:04:58. > :05:00.to Paul Farrelly. In my area, be going to be a bit parochial but I

:05:01. > :05:03.think I can afford to be because in Staffordshire there is only one

:05:04. > :05:07.national portfolio organisation. I still don't know since our last

:05:08. > :05:16.report whether there are areas in the country with none but I'm sure

:05:17. > :05:24.we will find out in due course. And of course, the backdrop of local

:05:25. > :05:30.authority cuts is really worrying, but amidst everything you are doing

:05:31. > :05:35.at the moment, you have started a national theatre after doing a

:05:36. > :05:42.London theatre and you are found that everything in London really

:05:43. > :05:49.blends so it was a mixed picture in the rest of the country in certain

:05:50. > :05:57.areas. Could you say a little about how that theatre review is going?

:05:58. > :06:04.You were due to have a draft finding by now and to produce the report in

:06:05. > :06:10.June. Just trying give us a feel of that. This was very much around

:06:11. > :06:14.trying to find out because we didn't come with a set of preconceptions of

:06:15. > :06:21.this is an analysis looking at theatre. One of the things we were

:06:22. > :06:26.very interested to see was that there are lots of medium-sized, mid

:06:27. > :06:34.ranged theatres. 400 to 700 feet and we want to say the amount of work

:06:35. > :06:37.that goes their -- 400 to 700 seats. We want to know if the

:06:38. > :06:42.infrastructure is right and what audiences expectations are and how

:06:43. > :06:45.they are led and run. Those are the questions so that data is being

:06:46. > :06:49.assimilated right now and we will have a report in a matter of weeks.

:06:50. > :06:52.That is something that has been worked on and we will be very happy

:06:53. > :07:00.to share it with the committee as soon as it is ready. From the

:07:01. > :07:02.sequence of events, there was an interesting London theatre report

:07:03. > :07:05.and then this review. There should be no necessary implication because

:07:06. > :07:09.we are talking about trying to rebalance investment away from

:07:10. > :07:15.London without harming London, there should be no necessary implication

:07:16. > :07:30.that that would reverse that trend for future investment but regional

:07:31. > :07:36.theatres might be downgraded? On the contrary. What one of our concerns

:07:37. > :07:39.was was that a lot of our work and thrive in the centre of London that

:07:40. > :07:42.is challenging to get audiences outside of London. We want to

:07:43. > :07:48.understand what levers we can use as an arts Council to make that happen.

:07:49. > :07:53.But just to be absolute crystal clear we are completely committed to

:07:54. > :07:56.the rebalance of the funding as we have publicly committed. We are

:07:57. > :08:00.committed to continuing that trend into the foreseeable future and the

:08:01. > :08:06.other thing I would say about the health of the theatre is that the

:08:07. > :08:10.tax credit for theatres is going to, in the end, bring in as much as 20

:08:11. > :08:13.million a year in the next five years. So there are a number of

:08:14. > :08:19.things there which should benefit theatres outside London. Cinemas

:08:20. > :08:22.don't often get brought into it, but there have been some efforts to try

:08:23. > :08:29.and fill some gaps with the cinema showings. Fastest-growing element in

:08:30. > :08:34.the cinema at the moment is the transmission of live performance,

:08:35. > :08:40.not just theatre but opera and dance and so on. 3% of stick sales are

:08:41. > :08:47.enough from them. It is incredibly excitement and if you think about a

:08:48. > :08:53.production from the Don Marc Warren -- the night is on live, 100,000

:08:54. > :08:55.people are watching it. We are just into the Digital millennium. The

:08:56. > :09:01.possibilities of delivering enormous amount of benefit, it should be in

:09:02. > :09:06.addition to building the Varsity not instead of, let's be clear on that,

:09:07. > :09:10.but it is a huge opportunity. And it is not just big names now. The

:09:11. > :09:13.miracle Theatre in Cornwall are taking their big shows and streaming

:09:14. > :09:23.them and getting a worldwide reputation. Have a local institution

:09:24. > :09:26.been knowing about this and that they may be taking a share of a

:09:27. > :09:31.fixed size of the cake rather than a growing cake? There was deafening

:09:32. > :09:35.nervousness when it started. I mention the sharing of the theatre I

:09:36. > :09:38.was at the other day and the lady who runs it was very clear with me.

:09:39. > :09:41.She said two years ago she was totally against it but not using

:09:42. > :09:48.crack be in favour of because she sees the benefit. -- totally in

:09:49. > :09:53.favour of it. We asked the BFI if it was damaging local theatre and it is

:09:54. > :09:57.not. There are some great examples. The Dukes Theatre in Lancashire have

:09:58. > :10:02.a very good cinema programme and a good life theatre programme as well.

:10:03. > :10:07.When I saw a theatre in Hereford, they called me clearly that although

:10:08. > :10:11.NT live shows are also on in the cinema down the road, people like to

:10:12. > :10:17.come to the theatre environment to watch them because it's more

:10:18. > :10:23.artistic as an experience. If you go and see an opera or theatre in the

:10:24. > :10:29.room itself you have a complete different experience than if you are

:10:30. > :10:33.watching closely cut focused close-ups, different styles of

:10:34. > :10:37.acting or appropriate. It is not the same experience and the frequency

:10:38. > :10:42.why I wouldn't be entirely... They are both valid though. A different

:10:43. > :10:46.experience, close-ups and popcorn is what you get in the cinema. A

:10:47. > :10:50.different experience. Nicely put. But you have done work on that and

:10:51. > :10:55.you have an active programme to promote new entrance into this sense

:10:56. > :11:08.we are doing that yes. They are contracted to a production

:11:09. > :11:17.company. It is part of our investment. Getting a better return

:11:18. > :11:25.on investment for arts funding, more people have to see it. We know you

:11:26. > :11:31.say you have a production arm, why did you film that and we will help

:11:32. > :11:37.you to distributed around the country. In parts of the country,

:11:38. > :11:49.that is happening. The cost of capture can vary between ?20,000 to

:11:50. > :11:52.make it available to large amounts of people to 200,000 people to get

:11:53. > :11:59.the high definition close-up and all the rest of it. We are trying to

:12:00. > :12:06.help and give people the strategies. The Royal exchange Theatre wanted to

:12:07. > :12:10.capture the production of Hamlet. They worked and in the end we talked

:12:11. > :12:21.to them and they found a partner. The cost of capture was 120,000 but

:12:22. > :12:25.that is now one a set of all time. Scholars, students and members of

:12:26. > :12:38.the public can access it. We are working on the economic soffits. I

:12:39. > :12:45.want to look at skills and diversity. You were talking about

:12:46. > :12:50.skills gaps and commercial managerial leadership and fund

:12:51. > :12:54.raising. It sounds like improvements are being made there. What else

:12:55. > :13:02.needs to be done and are there other skills gaps in the regions? One of

:13:03. > :13:06.the things I have noticed in my first year is when I talked to arts

:13:07. > :13:11.organisations around the country, whatever branch of the arts they are

:13:12. > :13:17.in, the great organisations tend to have great leaders behind them.

:13:18. > :13:25.There are some very strong leaders right across the arts and culture

:13:26. > :13:29.sector will stop it is interesting where organisations face challenges.

:13:30. > :13:32.The library sector, I have seen some strong leadership from within the

:13:33. > :13:36.library sector where people are imagining what is a great physical

:13:37. > :13:43.cultural space and seeing it in a digital future. One example is is in

:13:44. > :13:45.Worcestershire where they have come together with Worcestershire County

:13:46. > :13:48.Council and brought it together somewhere where you have the

:13:49. > :13:53.students but also have all the things you have from a great modern

:13:54. > :13:58.library as well. That is an example of good thinking. We want to

:13:59. > :14:07.increase capacity for that. We want to invest in the next generation of

:14:08. > :14:13.leaders. Also around diversity is around making sure the leaders are

:14:14. > :14:22.right across the way England looks in the 21st-century. We have had the

:14:23. > :14:28.creative employment programme. Potentially it is 6500 paid

:14:29. > :14:35.apprenticeships and internships. It is important we draw it from many

:14:36. > :14:42.sectors. We are over 4000 placements and that is important. As Darren

:14:43. > :14:48.says, leadership is important and we are" operators and funders of the

:14:49. > :14:52.core leadership programme which has been running for 11 years. We have

:14:53. > :14:56.somebody sitting on my national council who runs museums in

:14:57. > :15:04.Manchester. At all levels were trying to address this. You have

:15:05. > :15:07.mentioned you have been an evangelist for opportunities in the

:15:08. > :15:11.arts. How do you see that going and how can we encourage that in terms

:15:12. > :15:17.of skills and training in the workforce? The 15 years into the

:15:18. > :15:25.Digital millennium. Why would we know precisely how it will go? It is

:15:26. > :15:31.a fantastic opportunity. It is absolutely right that within the

:15:32. > :15:36.arts organisations, one of the ways they distribute their culture would

:15:37. > :15:43.be on video. They need their skills to distribute and the rest of it. We

:15:44. > :15:49.are working on that and we have joint ventures with the BBC, Channel

:15:50. > :15:56.4 and random axe which I am going to the launch of tomorrow night. We

:15:57. > :16:00.They are about getting young artists They are about getting young artists

:16:01. > :16:03.to make films and then finding a way of distributing them. That is

:16:04. > :16:12.additional money going into know-how and digital skills. When we think

:16:13. > :16:21.about the next generation, everybody needs to develop as the digital

:16:22. > :16:24.device -based strategy does. Much of the media consumption now happens on

:16:25. > :16:28.a mobile phone or a tablet and we want to make sure arts and cultural

:16:29. > :16:33.organisations are there because that is where they are getting their

:16:34. > :16:38.entertainment. How can you encourage that and sharing best practice? This

:16:39. > :16:43.goes to the heart of our development role. There are pockets of

:16:44. > :16:49.excellence in this but we all behind in some areas. We are keen to help

:16:50. > :16:54.fast tracked it through. I want to get to a stage where arts and

:16:55. > :16:57.culture organisations are doing things and mail copying us rather

:16:58. > :17:01.than the other way round. We are creative people in the arts and

:17:02. > :17:08.cultural world and we should be able to create some of these things. Part

:17:09. > :17:11.of that is helping them diversify their revenue streams and part of

:17:12. > :17:17.that is modern methods of data collection and data sharing. We are

:17:18. > :17:24.not only collecting audience data to assist but we are requiring people

:17:25. > :17:28.to do this data sharing with other arts organisations and other

:17:29. > :17:30.cultural organisations and to market themselves more effectively. Those

:17:31. > :17:38.skills that will be very important in the future. Turning out the

:17:39. > :17:47.diversity of the workforce. The arts Council made significant progress.

:17:48. > :17:52.12.4 of the work Ferres -- workforce were black and American and many

:17:53. > :17:58.were disabled. Reports have come up highlighting the fact that the

:17:59. > :18:02.workforce at leadership levels and overall is not reflective of

:18:03. > :18:09.society. Could you articulate what you are doing about that? It is not

:18:10. > :18:14.acceptable and we want to change it. That is something we are clear on.

:18:15. > :18:23.For me, one of the interesting things was bound -- around people

:18:24. > :18:28.making decisions. I know we will be doing more over the coming years to

:18:29. > :18:32.increase capability of leadership. Eight and half million pounds of

:18:33. > :18:36.newish Chidgey funds to go into improving diversity within the arts

:18:37. > :18:43.and cultural workforce will be around fast tracking through leaders

:18:44. > :18:46.but also making sure we have a responsibility not just in

:18:47. > :18:51.specialist organisations but across the piece. Historically, we have

:18:52. > :18:57.funded specialist organisations in this area and that has been almost

:18:58. > :19:03.allowing everyone else to get away without taking responsibilities as

:19:04. > :19:07.they should. We are very clear that every organisation, no matter where

:19:08. > :19:12.they are has a responsibility to be working in this area and to do

:19:13. > :19:20.better. In terms of practical changes there has been concerns

:19:21. > :19:25.about the use of voluntary or unpaid work its brilliance and that has

:19:26. > :19:28.from more challenging social from more challenging social

:19:29. > :19:38.economic backgrounds to get into arts and culture. We realise to do a

:19:39. > :19:46.month of work its brilliance, if you can't afford the bus fare, it stops

:19:47. > :19:53.you from taking part. What we are saying is the internship should be

:19:54. > :20:04.paid and we have funded it. We see that as being very important. We

:20:05. > :20:07.will continue to invest in that. I have to congratulate you on name

:20:08. > :20:14.checking every one of our constituencies. I have been to a lot

:20:15. > :20:17.of places across the country but that is because we are a national

:20:18. > :20:20.arts Council and I believe the best thing I can do come into the

:20:21. > :20:30.organisation was to meet the people up and down the country that make

:20:31. > :20:39.great art and culture happen. Thank you very much for that. Take an

:20:40. > :20:45.organisation that is the recipient of funds from you, what do you

:20:46. > :20:49.actually do that requires them to improve the quality of diversity and

:20:50. > :20:57.opportunities they are offering to people of black, ethnic minority or

:20:58. > :21:02.other forms of diverse management? What are you doing to make that

:21:03. > :21:07.happen? We have a funding agreement and help forces in that and we

:21:08. > :21:13.stipulate how they would behave and what they will do. We have signalled

:21:14. > :21:17.quite clearly to the arts and culture sector that the man next

:21:18. > :21:23.funding round which will start in 2018, this will become more

:21:24. > :21:32.important and an important part of decision making. We are publishing

:21:33. > :21:38.the employment statistics and we did it for the first time last December.

:21:39. > :21:49.They had a poor record in diverse employment and that appeared in the

:21:50. > :21:53.local newspapers. We are also measuring it and publishing it. We

:21:54. > :22:00.have been very open and will be very open with our data. You have to be

:22:01. > :22:08.open about this six and publish the data. -- open about their

:22:09. > :22:15.statistics. There is a programme which is about audiences and

:22:16. > :22:19.repertoire. If your repertoire reflects all tastes and everybody

:22:20. > :22:24.who lives in your community, your audiences will also reflect it. We

:22:25. > :22:26.are doing audience measurement and asking people to make their

:22:27. > :22:35.repertoire all embracing and wider. We will be looking into this and

:22:36. > :22:47.will be publishing in the autumn. We intend to measure it, manage it and

:22:48. > :22:52.publish it. How do you... Let me ask you another way, are you confident

:22:53. > :22:56.you are accessible in terms of funding applications to all parts of

:22:57. > :23:03.the arts and performance community? How do you advertise yourselves? We

:23:04. > :23:07.are talking about monitoring the large organisations. How easy is it

:23:08. > :23:17.for some new group of performers, some new collective to make a

:23:18. > :23:22.successful application? It is always a challenge because there are people

:23:23. > :23:31.who know how the system works. We do a lot of work on the ground in local

:23:32. > :23:35.areas. It is about building up that local capacity. We run workshops in

:23:36. > :23:42.areas and will send managers out to work with people. We work with

:23:43. > :23:47.artists who are creating work and we as that question as to why it is

:23:48. > :23:52.happening. We go and talk to them. We are keen to do that and would

:23:53. > :23:57.like to get more people and fund more organisations. If anybody does

:23:58. > :24:00.engage with us, there is a fantastic team based in our Manchester office

:24:01. > :24:04.that work on the phones and they have sat with them in operations and

:24:05. > :24:09.will take them through the entire funding process if they need help

:24:10. > :24:13.with any part of it. We do everything we can with people with

:24:14. > :24:16.visual impairments to make sure things are available. I am sure we

:24:17. > :24:20.can do more and our intention is to do more. We don't want just be

:24:21. > :24:29.funding the same people for the same work all of the time. You can always

:24:30. > :24:33.improve. We are always trying to improve the processes and they can

:24:34. > :24:36.be improved. We are consulting on some changes to applications from

:24:37. > :24:43.next year for the next round of grants for the arts. For instance,

:24:44. > :24:45.the application process for individual artists and small

:24:46. > :24:52.organisations can be simplified further than it is at the moment. If

:24:53. > :24:56.you are a large organisation, quite rightly the arts Council will be

:24:57. > :25:00.asking a lot of you and a lot of data from you. If you are a small

:25:01. > :25:04.organisation, you will have a simpler procedure. We are not

:25:05. > :25:11.satisfied it is simple enough for the smaller organisations. Do you

:25:12. > :25:23.make artistic judgments? Yes. Who makes those? We will make artistic

:25:24. > :25:31.judgments based on our expertise. Our employees will go through. We

:25:32. > :25:34.have been trying to create more objective criteria. We have been

:25:35. > :25:40.putting money into the Manchester metrics which was piloted three

:25:41. > :25:45.years ago. This is a more coherent way of making judgments to which you

:25:46. > :25:52.refer, combined in peer review with audience data and with critical

:25:53. > :25:55.review. Pulling that information together so we are developing a more

:25:56. > :26:03.sophisticated model for the future based on Manchester metrics. That is

:26:04. > :26:12.a way of quantifying almost the artistic merit? It will ride on the

:26:13. > :26:19.composition of those panels to make sure there is sufficient diversity.

:26:20. > :26:26.The other thing I would say though is that we are not investing in art

:26:27. > :26:31.just because we would like it. We are investing in art because we

:26:32. > :26:33.recognise that there is a wide range of different viewpoints of what

:26:34. > :26:37.great art is around the country and we would make sure or seek to make

:26:38. > :26:42.sure we represent all of that. That's what I was going to finish

:26:43. > :26:45.off with. Obviously we are looking at countries of culture, we're

:26:46. > :26:51.looking at art being represented across the UK particular the outside

:26:52. > :26:56.of London, so do those panels represent geographical diversity?

:26:57. > :26:58.Yes, for example, every decision that involves anybody making a

:26:59. > :27:03.funding application in the north-east will be made involving

:27:04. > :27:07.the team in our Newcastle office so for example, as I said, I was in

:27:08. > :27:13.Sunderland on Saturday night. That was a piece of artistic endeavour

:27:14. > :27:16.that was absolutely of Sunderland. It was celebrating Sunderland's

:27:17. > :27:22.cultural heritage and that was a decision to fund the cultural spring

:27:23. > :27:27.which is the organisation put it on involving our team in Newcastle. I

:27:28. > :27:31.want to wind up in a couple of minutes but just a couple of last

:27:32. > :27:37.questions if I may for you. We haven't talked about regional and

:27:38. > :27:43.local museums at all or art galleries. Can we touch on that? How

:27:44. > :27:50.do you see that what you're going to do about it? Yes, first we should

:27:51. > :27:59.put it in context. The largest funding of museums is obviously

:28:00. > :28:04.local authorities and we inherited responsibility about four or five

:28:05. > :28:08.years ago. At the moment we have ?42.5 million to invest in museums.

:28:09. > :28:11.Half of that goes into our major museums of which there are 21. The

:28:12. > :28:17.other half goes into the resilience fund museums which is very much

:28:18. > :28:22.needed. The HLF has a role in the capital funding as well. We are at

:28:23. > :28:26.the moment consulting again, looking at how we change things for next

:28:27. > :28:30.year on how we can open up more of our funds to museums and more of our

:28:31. > :28:37.grounds and archive funding and lottery funding to museums who are

:28:38. > :28:40.an important part of culture. We are really concerned about museums. I

:28:41. > :28:47.think I said in a speech I made a couple of weeks ago that they are at

:28:48. > :28:51.the sharp end of this cuts in local authorities you talked about the

:28:52. > :28:56.Royal Albert easy in Exeter. They are the holders and the because told

:28:57. > :29:00.'s of our national identity. They could not be more important in our

:29:01. > :29:05.great treasures in this country and we are concerned about it. I would

:29:06. > :29:08.emphasise that we will do whatever we can and have a very good head of

:29:09. > :29:14.museums you came to us from the British Museum, but we are partners

:29:15. > :29:22.with this in other bigger funders. -- with other bigger funders. The

:29:23. > :29:30.museum sector has seen a reasonable settlement for yourselves and the

:29:31. > :29:34.other arts organisations and the National museums are been largely

:29:35. > :29:39.protected and from their point of view, to use a quote given to me by

:29:40. > :29:45.one person, they seem to be in a proposition whether Government is a

:29:46. > :29:49.patron of the arts and culture for abundant but filler signs outside of

:29:50. > :29:58.London because they are at the sharp end so this is quite crucial to our

:29:59. > :30:04.report. Many how closing or cutting down hours and introducing charges

:30:05. > :30:09.saw the same time, we've got a wide range of review of funding and you

:30:10. > :30:14.can't second-guess what's going to happen in this cultural white paper.

:30:15. > :30:18.From your perspective, do you think there is more than a possibility to

:30:19. > :30:23.make good the funding cuts for the rest of the museums around the

:30:24. > :30:31.country but the prickly issue of charging for entry into London

:30:32. > :30:39.museums will have to be resist? I'll answer that. Darin you can add

:30:40. > :30:44.something. The question of charging in any museum is not something that

:30:45. > :30:47.the arts Council takes a completely theological position on. In that if

:30:48. > :30:52.you look at the Association for independent mediums, and they may be

:30:53. > :30:55.very interesting as a source of information for you as well as the

:30:56. > :31:00.museums Association and the National fund of museums as well, many

:31:01. > :31:06.museums to not receive public money except for the odd bit of capital

:31:07. > :31:09.and they do charge otherwise visibly many have strong tourist economy.

:31:10. > :31:12.What we all believe is that everybody deserves a museum and that

:31:13. > :31:16.if you are a town that doesn't have a strong tourist economy, Taj and

:31:17. > :31:21.would not make any difference. Even if you do charge, there should be a

:31:22. > :31:24.strong access charge so that children and other disadvantage and

:31:25. > :31:26.unemployed people can go to the museum anyway. So even if you

:31:27. > :31:32.charge, you should have a decent access policy. I don't personally

:31:33. > :31:36.take the view that we should never ever charge for museum entry and I

:31:37. > :31:42.see lots of museums now nationally and locally preserving free entry

:31:43. > :31:45.but charging for special exhibitions, charging for friends

:31:46. > :31:50.membership and so on but there are a range of solutions and so I don't

:31:51. > :31:55.take the view of never ever charging. I think it's true to say

:31:56. > :32:03.that it's an area which does cause as concern so local authority museum

:32:04. > :32:06.investment for 2010 to 2015 is down ?23 million so it probably goes by

:32:07. > :32:09.much to the area we were talking at the front end that it is an area of

:32:10. > :32:16.concern. Therefore the parts of the country where museums are causing

:32:17. > :32:19.and we also have a responsibility to protect the collections and those

:32:20. > :32:24.museums are not just the physical buildings, but also the publicly

:32:25. > :32:28.owned property of all different sorts in there. Where the museum

:32:29. > :32:30.sector have been absolutely brilliant is where they gradually

:32:31. > :32:34.reinvented themselves in many cases over the last 20 or 30 years whether

:32:35. > :32:38.used to be repositories of knowledge and information which they almost

:32:39. > :32:41.kept from the very people they were looking after it forward as now I

:32:42. > :32:46.think it has been turned on its head and there are great examples of

:32:47. > :32:49.museums that are making themselves central to tourist destinations in

:32:50. > :32:52.central to cultural investments within places. There is a great

:32:53. > :32:57.buildings were we can put on other cultural and artistic activities but

:32:58. > :33:03.it is a concern. So you would expect quite naturally to touch on all the

:33:04. > :33:08.issues including that prickly issue of charging? I think we are dealing

:33:09. > :33:11.with Government manifesto and therefore I can't answer for how

:33:12. > :33:18.they are going to conduct it but we can only give the arts Council's

:33:19. > :33:23.viewers. In some other countries and some other cities, tourists are

:33:24. > :33:27.charged but not locals. Do you have a view on whether that a greater?

:33:28. > :33:30.Well, my view is not theological and charging so I think there can be

:33:31. > :33:33.different solutions in different places. You would need tourists for

:33:34. > :33:38.that to work and some areas do not have tourist economy so it would be

:33:39. > :33:43.inappropriate. So the large bridge collections could potentially charge

:33:44. > :33:46.tourists but not locals in the some way that they do in some Italian

:33:47. > :33:54.cities. That would be an option in your universe? We are funders of

:33:55. > :33:58.largely, with one exception, museums outside London and those other ones

:33:59. > :34:01.were concerned about and it's those issues that we really have to

:34:02. > :34:05.express a view answer we don't tend to express views on the National

:34:06. > :34:10.museums because they are very different and speak for themselves.

:34:11. > :34:15.And no doubt they will. I'm sure. But just to finalise and end

:34:16. > :34:22.quickly, you have mentioned universities, very poor and part of

:34:23. > :34:29.the -- very important thing but can I do is pick up which is if you look

:34:30. > :34:33.at organisations that are funded every year, through lottery author

:34:34. > :34:41.and council funding, in the West Midlands, I count eight. One is the

:34:42. > :34:48.Russia expert company. -- one is the Royal Shakespeare Company. There are

:34:49. > :34:55.only six, and one is in Wolverhampton. The question is if

:34:56. > :34:58.you need places that create and growth in places outside cities,

:34:59. > :35:04.universities look like a good entry points for that. Can you comment

:35:05. > :35:11.about whether you believe that what you are doing to promote that? I

:35:12. > :35:13.absolutely agree. I was at edge Hill University and a fantastic

:35:14. > :35:17.University University of the year last year. But it fantastic thing

:35:18. > :35:22.there is that they are finding their place. The same with Lancaster. The

:35:23. > :35:28.university is finding its place. So absolutely, and Hull which we have

:35:29. > :35:32.not mentioned yet, the University of Hull was central to getting the

:35:33. > :35:36.application for the city of culture. In Staffordshire the University of

:35:37. > :35:42.Staffordshire are very active at the moment about creating and national

:35:43. > :35:45.centre of ceramics. Lots of things around the country. Universities are

:35:46. > :35:51.great cultural investors and custodians and we see them as very

:35:52. > :35:55.important. What is encouraging is that that is growing. University of

:35:56. > :35:58.Northumbria invested in an art gallery in Newcastle. The University

:35:59. > :36:06.of Sunderland runs a national bus centre are really important skill

:36:07. > :36:11.centre. Universities are funding museums in Middlesbrough. University

:36:12. > :36:16.of Derby opening a redundant theatre in Derby. University of the West of

:36:17. > :36:20.England taking the top two florists of a gallery and saving its economic

:36:21. > :36:27.model and is now on the list of easy and is of the year at the Art fund

:36:28. > :36:29.competition announced as weak. John Moore's University in Liverpool

:36:30. > :36:34.funding Liverpool for LaMonica Orchestra. What greater statement

:36:35. > :36:37.could there be offered University saying we are here to have a better

:36:38. > :36:42.environment for our students and to have a better place for our students

:36:43. > :36:47.to graduate into? -- Philharmonic Orchestra. This is why universities

:36:48. > :36:50.now measure of their graduates and how many are still there after five

:36:51. > :36:53.years which is an interesting measure of their investment in the

:36:54. > :36:59.local authority. I'm glad she raised it. It has enormous potential and is

:37:00. > :37:01.vice chancellors more define their role as pacemakers rarer rather than

:37:02. > :37:09.merely scholastic, we believe it will grow. And you will support that

:37:10. > :37:12.process? Absolutely. Birmingham University went through a growth

:37:13. > :37:17.fund and they are the custodian of the steam house which was a chance

:37:18. > :37:20.is another ?14 million of funding into it so we are seeing them as

:37:21. > :37:23.custodians here. They're culturally aware and literate and they are

:37:24. > :37:27.great partners to work with. We have run on quite a bit but we are very

:37:28. > :37:33.grateful to you for coming in. If you have one final point? I know it

:37:34. > :37:37.could be a very late lunch for members of the committee and forgive

:37:38. > :37:43.me. It's your lunch we are worried about. Oh, you don't get lunch? I

:37:44. > :37:48.want is a one more thing. I'm sure your enquiry will have many

:37:49. > :37:52.interesting and challenging things to say about arts funding across the

:37:53. > :37:55.country, the distribution and mechanisms and everything. It is a

:37:56. > :38:01.great time to be doing the enquiry. Can I make one plea, that in your

:38:02. > :38:04.report, you also join us in reiterating the value of arts and

:38:05. > :38:08.culture, the intrinsic and social value and educational and economic

:38:09. > :38:12.value because that is the argument that we have to win with National

:38:13. > :38:16.Government and local Government every week, every month, every year

:38:17. > :38:24.going forward. We want your help in that. Thank you. Thank you for that.

:38:25. > :38:30.I think it would be improper for me to make any comment on the future.

:38:31. > :38:36.But we greatly thank you for coming in. Thank you for your time.