:13:02. > :13:09.What comfort can you give us that you are actually going to bd able to
:13:10. > :13:15.spend money in places like hn Europe without reinforcing our bil`teral
:13:16. > :13:19.relations in the wake of Brdxit There does not appear to be any
:13:20. > :13:25.money kicking around at the minute. I think I have made a few points, we
:13:26. > :13:30.live in strange circumstancds, we have to make our money go ftrther
:13:31. > :13:35.than ever, we have a bigger network than the French with that acceptance
:13:36. > :13:45.costs. We can be doing extrdmely well. We are can be proud. The
:13:46. > :13:51.overall FCA budget is rising from 1.1 billion to 1.24 billion by 019.
:13:52. > :13:58.I think where you are spot on if I may say, Mr Blunt, is in pohnting to
:13:59. > :14:03.the very considerable sums that are available for ODA spending, we have
:14:04. > :14:12.quite a lot of quite a lot of ODA quite a lot of quite a lot of ODA
:14:13. > :14:20.think it is now to make surd, the think it is now to make surd, the
:14:21. > :14:29.game now is to make sure th`t UK ODA stackable funds are used in such a
:14:30. > :14:34.way in not just to serve to goals as they undoubtedly must, but `lso make
:14:35. > :14:39.sure they mesh and with our diplomatic and political objectives.
:14:40. > :14:44.I see absolutely no contradhction in that approach and that is something
:14:45. > :14:52.I know that the government `t all levels agrees with. Secretary of
:14:53. > :14:57.State, to pick that point up, that is fine but that only applids to
:14:58. > :15:02.those countries that are subject to development assistance, you cannot
:15:03. > :15:06.spend that money elsewhere. True. It is all very well having mondy there
:15:07. > :15:12.but where our game needs to be raised is with the rest of the world
:15:13. > :15:18.where our principal markets, existing markets are going to be, we
:15:19. > :15:21.are reinforcing the work of the international trade departmdnt, but
:15:22. > :15:24.you cannot do this on fresh air and all you have is fresh air to do this
:15:25. > :15:31.on at the minute and meet these aspirations. I know you gavd my
:15:32. > :15:36.predecessor quite a grilling about this when he last appeared before
:15:37. > :15:42.you, and he made a very good point that he could imagine bidding for
:15:43. > :15:46.more funds themselves, sincd he is now the Chancellor, I am pl`nning to
:15:47. > :15:53.camp out as they say in the Foreign Office on what he has to sax.
:15:54. > :15:58.Foreign Secretary, in welcoling you to your post, can we kick-off, it
:15:59. > :16:04.may not surprise you, with Brexit. To many of us, the referendtm gave
:16:05. > :16:09.every clear message and that is we are leaving, the government's
:16:10. > :16:15.position is greatly on this. We are going to take back control on
:16:16. > :16:17.immigration and introduced ` fairer immigration on that no longdr
:16:18. > :16:26.discriminates against the rdst of the outside the EU and we whll get
:16:27. > :16:31.the best possible deal in rdgard accessing EU markets. It is a
:16:32. > :16:35.nonsense that there was so luch noise about this one could `rgue
:16:36. > :16:40.trade from outside the EU trade from outside the EU
:16:41. > :16:42.profitably, there is no reason why the fifth-largest economy c`nnot as
:16:43. > :16:53.well. What would you say to the alarmists, some would prefer --
:16:54. > :16:57.unfairly call them Bremoaners, that we are heading to hell in a hand
:16:58. > :16:59.basket, and what would you say to those who are genuinely concerned
:17:00. > :17:07.about developments and the uncertainty that this has c`used? I
:17:08. > :17:12.think that those who prophesied doom before the referendum have been
:17:13. > :17:19.proved wrong, and I think they will continue to be proved wrong. It will
:17:20. > :17:22.take time before the full bdnefits of Brexit appear, because after all,
:17:23. > :17:27.we have not even begun the process of leaving. The whole thing is
:17:28. > :17:34.really very artificial and speculative. I do think that
:17:35. > :17:39.businesses investing in the UK can have maximum possible certahnty in
:17:40. > :17:45.the assurance that our partners our friends across the Channel have a
:17:46. > :17:54.huge interest in doing the best possible deal in goods and services
:17:55. > :17:57.for the sake of their companies and our friends in the political world
:17:58. > :18:00.across the channel have a symmetrical interest in doing a deal
:18:01. > :18:03.that would be for the benefht of their constituents and the people
:18:04. > :18:08.who elect them. And that of the deal that is going to promote thd growth
:18:09. > :18:13.and posterity of both the UK and the EU and IM sure that is what we put
:18:14. > :18:17.produce. There could be somd trouble along the way that that is how it
:18:18. > :18:19.will end up. Perhaps we shotld take comfort from the fact that the very
:18:20. > :18:28.people who were predicting doom and people who were predicting doom and
:18:29. > :18:32.gloom if we did not join thd euro are predicting doom and gloom now.
:18:33. > :18:37.Can I drill down on the negotiations, wonderfully
:18:38. > :18:41.fully understand that a rolling fully understand that a rolling
:18:42. > :18:47.commentary makes for poor ottcomes. And despite the silent calls of
:18:48. > :18:50.certain members of this place, it is just ridiculous to think th`t that
:18:51. > :18:55.can take place and the government is clear that it will not take place,
:18:56. > :19:00.there will be no rolling colmentary, there will be scrutiny perh`ps but
:19:01. > :19:04.no rolling commentary. But the EU's position itself is quite
:19:05. > :19:10.interesting. They are very luch we can put it on the record, they are
:19:11. > :19:14.linking immigration to access to the single market. They say it hs one of
:19:15. > :19:27.the four founding principles, it is non-negotiable. You have described
:19:28. > :19:33.that approach as baloney. M`is oui. Absolutely right. There's a here,
:19:34. > :19:37.how are we going to get arotnd this? -- there is a disconnect here. I
:19:38. > :19:42.genuinely think there is an unnecessary linkage in thesd
:19:43. > :19:46.concepts and I vividly remelber being ordered by the Belgian
:19:47. > :19:51.interior minister in 1989 to leave the country, they tried to portray
:19:52. > :19:57.when I went to work abroad because -- tried to deport me because I
:19:58. > :20:02.could not produce a document that showed I was economically vhable in
:20:03. > :20:08.Belgium. I had to go to the commune with a letter proving I had a job.
:20:09. > :20:14.This was as you appreciate lany years after the Treaty of Rome, many
:20:15. > :20:23.years after the single European act. So the idea that the Browni`n
:20:24. > :20:31.movement of individuals, citizens across the surface of Europd is
:20:32. > :20:37.somehow there on tablet in stone in Brussels is complete nonsense. It is
:20:38. > :20:42.a fiction, we are taking back control of our borders, as we said
:20:43. > :20:47.we would, and that is what we will do. It does not mean, as I said in
:20:48. > :20:52.my opening remarks, that we are going to be hostile to people of
:20:53. > :20:55.talent who wants to come and live and work here. I think it is very
:20:56. > :21:04.important that we continue to send out a signal of openness and welcome
:21:05. > :21:08.to the many brilliant peopld who help to drive the London economy and
:21:09. > :21:15.If there are knotty problem that we If there are knotty problem that we
:21:16. > :21:20.have got to face and we havd not faced up to it, or perhaps we have
:21:21. > :21:23.behind closed doors, that is the opposition has access to thd single
:21:24. > :21:26.market and one can understand that, but at the same time we are doing to
:21:27. > :21:30.communities act and it is that act communities act and it is that act
:21:31. > :21:39.that gave force to the EU Court of Justice which has a students with
:21:40. > :21:44.regard to the single market. There regard to the single market. There
:21:45. > :21:46.is a bit of a disconnect th`t. The Prime Minister made it clear when
:21:47. > :21:54.leaving the EU and thereby we would leaving the EU and thereby we would
:21:55. > :21:58.be leaving a number of the Duropean Court of Justice, we would be no
:21:59. > :22:04.longer subject to European Tnion law. That is the key point. We will
:22:05. > :22:13.get the best possible deal for goods and services for the UK and the rest
:22:14. > :22:16.of the EU. OK. Following on from that, it sounds too many of us, and
:22:17. > :22:23.this holds no fear from any of our points of view, that we would be
:22:24. > :22:29.prepared if all else fails to fall back on WTO rules and tariffs. Your
:22:30. > :22:35.fellow Secretary of State ldaving the EU says that holds no fdar. If
:22:36. > :22:44.170 countries can trade on such a basis and tariffs are as low as
:22:45. > :22:50.three or 5%, except truck, ht shows that it holds no fear for us. I
:22:51. > :22:54.think you are can think me to get into what we call running commentary
:22:55. > :23:02.about the negotiations. -- xou are tempting me. I think we can do a
:23:03. > :23:07.great deal that can deliver results for both goods and services for our
:23:08. > :23:10.businesses and for our friends overseas. But he would not disagree
:23:11. > :23:17.with your fellow Secretary of State that the debutant Theo holds no
:23:18. > :23:22.fears? -- the WTO holds no fears? That would be getting into the mini
:23:23. > :23:27.shy of the negotiations. I think there will be a great deal done EU
:23:28. > :23:31.not picking up here, I have raised not picking up here, I have raised
:23:32. > :23:35.this before but what is your take along with the spotlight behng on
:23:36. > :23:40.our negotiating position, btt if you look across at the EU, it is quite
:23:41. > :23:44.an interesting situation. Wd seem to have an emerging and growing split
:23:45. > :23:49.between the ideologists within the EU commission and elected
:23:50. > :23:54.politicians who realise that courtesy of the balance of trade in
:23:55. > :23:58.their favour, playing hardb`ll may not be in their best interests. What
:23:59. > :24:02.can you tell us with regards that situation as you see it? I
:24:03. > :24:07.understand that point and I have heard it quite a lot. I think it is
:24:08. > :24:12.important not to... I have not actually tested that proposhtion yet
:24:13. > :24:16.with some of the key commission people but my impression is that
:24:17. > :24:23.they are faithful servants of Europe and of the EU and they will
:24:24. > :24:28.alternately do what they consider to be in the best interests of the
:24:29. > :24:33.entire union. And I think that will be a deal that is beneficial to the
:24:34. > :24:39.electorates and the people of Europe and that is where they will end up.
:24:40. > :24:40.Of course a certain amount of plaster has come off the cehling in
:24:41. > :24:47.Brussels since the vote on June 23, Brussels since the vote on June 23,
:24:48. > :24:48.of course people feel, they had a project, there was a fascin`ting
:24:49. > :24:52.article in the FT this mornhng by article in the FT this mornhng by
:24:53. > :24:57.the French Prime Minister in which he spelt out why we were so right to
:24:58. > :25:03.vote to leave because he very erratically start out his vhsion for
:25:04. > :25:09.a United States of Europe, ` federal system, with defined boundaries Not
:25:10. > :25:13.an ideal to which I think the British people really aspird. I
:25:14. > :25:19.think we did the right thing. I think we can make it work. Do you
:25:20. > :25:24.think relations a few years out can improve with the EU? Becausd no log
:25:25. > :25:28.of all they have two content with those awkward Brits, a thorn in
:25:29. > :25:31.their side, as they march towards a closer look with union and ht can
:25:32. > :25:38.make for a fresh political volition ship. I am so glad to hear xou talk
:25:39. > :25:43.in those terms. Europe is at its best when it is positive about the
:25:44. > :25:46.work it is engaged in, I thhnk we should view the Brexit procdss as a
:25:47. > :25:51.positive thing. We are sorthng out the UK problem. After all that has
:25:52. > :25:57.been a problem for decades. We did not go into Schengen, critically
:25:58. > :26:02.weak decided to stay out of stage three of monetary union in 0991
:26:03. > :26:09.that with the basic moment of the emergence. I think all else to float
:26:10. > :26:18.from that. What we saw on Jtne 3 was the logical conclusion of that
:26:19. > :26:21.divergences, that basic drift by the British people away from th`t ideal
:26:22. > :26:25.which is articulated by the French Prime Minister in the paper this
:26:26. > :26:31.morning. We do not want to be part of such a construct. We havd always
:26:32. > :26:36.made it clear. It has always been very tense. We said, we do not agree
:26:37. > :26:39.with us ever closer links, we do not agree with the jurisdiction of the
:26:40. > :26:44.European Court of Justice over this or that. And we have been the bad
:26:45. > :26:51.part of this. To a certain dxtent other countries have shielddd their
:26:52. > :26:57.own apprehensions behind us, but it is up to them now to get on and take
:26:58. > :27:08.the thing forward. Lee McRad finally on Brexit, Canada to reinforce. --
:27:09. > :27:11.finally on Brexit, can I rehnforce what we talked about resources, we
:27:12. > :27:16.have been poorly sited in m`ny of have been poorly sited in m`ny of
:27:17. > :27:18.our interventions, the FCO, some of us have a view on those
:27:19. > :27:24.interventions but us have a view on those
:27:25. > :27:30.interventions Put that to one side. Resources are going to be even more
:27:31. > :27:37.difficult now as we become globally facing and looked outside the EU. An
:27:38. > :27:43.increase of the budget is a drop in the ocean prepared to what hs
:27:44. > :27:45.required. -- compared to wh`t is required. How forceful will you be
:27:46. > :27:52.in lobbying for more funds from in lobbying for more funds from
:27:53. > :27:55.where you sit? I am grateful to you and the committee for the tdnor of
:27:56. > :28:01.welcome to us and clearly wd want to welcome to us and clearly wd want to
:28:02. > :28:05.be arguing that global Brit`in wants to be properly represented overseas.
:28:06. > :28:11.I think ?140 million can go a long way. There will be some parsimonious
:28:12. > :28:15.will make good use of it. Clearly we will make good use of it. Clearly we
:28:16. > :28:16.have a big network and robust network that needs to be properly
:28:17. > :28:24.run. Thank you for joining us. D`y and
:28:25. > :28:28.thank you to your colleagues for coming along as well. Someone
:28:29. > :28:33.referred to them as unelectdd bureaucrats, but we do not on this
:28:34. > :28:38.committee. Sorry to interrupt you. Far be it from me to critichse
:28:39. > :28:45.bureaucrats, the unelected ones I was talking about we will shortly
:28:46. > :28:57.cease to have controlling otr lives. OK. Not the ones at the momdnt?
:28:58. > :29:01.These ones are OK? In terms of your earlier analogy on going off and
:29:02. > :29:06.running the place. I am going to take it on face value that that was
:29:07. > :29:10.about trade rather than any major trading foreign policy after we
:29:11. > :29:15.leave the European Union. One of the great attractions to our partners
:29:16. > :29:18.overseas is access and membdrship of the single market. Do you still
:29:19. > :29:31.believe we should retain melbership? Yes or no? Let us be clear, we're
:29:32. > :29:35.going to get a deal, I think the term single market is incre`singly
:29:36. > :29:43.useless, we will get a deal which will be of huge value, posshbly a
:29:44. > :29:48.greater value. What is still an achieved and services, for hnstance,
:29:49. > :29:56.goods and services for our friends on the continent and for business
:29:57. > :30:03.investment, I make these we`risome points but we are the singld biggest
:30:04. > :30:08.consumers of French champagne and of Italian Chris Eckel. We're
:30:09. > :30:16.indiscriminate. We drink both more than anybody else. We import more
:30:17. > :30:27.German cars than any other country, it is a wonderful fact. -- Htalian
:30:28. > :30:32.sparkling wine. There will be no attempt to punish the UK or
:30:33. > :30:36.financial services, as the former Governor of the Bank of England
:30:37. > :30:41.said, yesterday, it does not make economic sense for Europe. Hn the
:30:42. > :30:46.end,... That is not the question I asked. As you will be aware, forgive
:30:47. > :30:51.me for mentioning, the French drink more whisky in a month than cognac
:30:52. > :30:57.in a year, and I suspect th`t will not stop either. The question I
:30:58. > :31:01.asked, do you think we should retain membership of the single market or
:31:02. > :31:08.is it your negotiating objectives to retain membership of the single
:31:09. > :31:16.market? That is a simple qudstion. Is that your objective? We're going
:31:17. > :31:21.to get the best possible de`l, and as I said the most useful thing I
:31:22. > :31:32.can say to you is that the phrase single market probably is one that
:31:33. > :31:38.not many people really understand. I presume you understand. There are
:31:39. > :31:42.many countries that sell very effectively into the single market,
:31:43. > :31:47.and that is what we will do. So we will be outside the single larket?
:31:48. > :31:51.Well, we will get the best possible deal for trades and services. So you
:31:52. > :31:58.do not know if we will be on the single market is what we take away
:31:59. > :32:03.from this? Nobody appears to have a clue about what is going to happen.
:32:04. > :32:08.I will do it one last time, is it even your objective to retahn
:32:09. > :32:14.membership of the single market We're leaving the European Tnion.
:32:15. > :32:20.That is not quite what I asked. You seem to think the single market is
:32:21. > :32:26.sort of like the Groucho cltb or something. We are leaving the
:32:27. > :32:34.European Union, we will continue to have access for trading goods and
:32:35. > :32:44.services to the EU, and I think we will do a deal which will bd to the
:32:45. > :32:48.benefit of both sides. You don't know, you dinnae ken. Which
:32:49. > :32:57.commissioners have you met with since you took office? I have
:32:58. > :33:04.principally had dealings with Johannes Hannon and the High
:33:05. > :33:15.Commissioner who deals with the foreign affairs said. I appreciate
:33:16. > :33:25.your candour. Regarding exiting the European Union, have you asked the
:33:26. > :33:32.year colleagues will be meeting We were told that we cannot be told
:33:33. > :33:34.because it is part of the negotiating strategy. Will the
:33:35. > :33:39.commissioners tell us who they are meeting? They are very open and in
:33:40. > :33:47.my view they are charming pdople, they want to engage with us, and my
:33:48. > :33:52.relations with them are really good. We have had various convers`tions.
:33:53. > :33:56.As part of this, do you still adhere to what the Prime Minister said when
:33:57. > :33:59.she met the First Minister of Scotland, that there should be an
:34:00. > :34:07.agreed position with devolvdd administrations before any `greement
:34:08. > :34:09.is signed? An agreed position? It is certainly the case that devolved
:34:10. > :34:14.administrations, overseas territories, they will all be
:34:15. > :34:19.properly consulted, of course, over the course of the negotiations.
:34:20. > :34:23.Rate, but will there be an `greed position? I am asking you qtestions,
:34:24. > :34:28.I am not sure I'm getting any answers. We have had a week of that
:34:29. > :34:34.in the chamber. Will there be an agreed position? I can tell you that
:34:35. > :34:41.the devolved administrations will play a role, they will be consulted,
:34:42. > :34:44.but this is a United Kingdol, confidence is something that was
:34:45. > :34:50.decided by the people of thd UK you would expect them and the government
:34:51. > :34:55.to be the lead in the negothations. One interesting reflection on all
:34:56. > :35:02.this consultation of Parlialent and the devolved administrations and so
:35:03. > :35:09.on, I have seen plenty of Etropean negotiations and treaty and at no
:35:10. > :35:15.stage in the run-up to the climax of those negotiations has therd been
:35:16. > :35:24.any attempt to create three position with Parliament, let alone with the
:35:25. > :35:28.regions. But there is a process .. On the point of process, yot're
:35:29. > :35:31.telling me there will not bd an agreed position with the devolved
:35:32. > :35:34.administrations, they will be consulted, which goes against what
:35:35. > :35:38.the Prime Minister told the First Minister at the start of thhs. Has
:35:39. > :35:42.there been movement on the involvement of devolved
:35:43. > :35:46.administrations? I think I `nswered your question. Let me ask you one
:35:47. > :35:53.further question, if you cannot answer that. You spoke of t`lking
:35:54. > :35:55.about this new law, is therd any law that David Cameron signed up to with
:35:56. > :36:01.his European partners that xou would not have signed up to? With the
:36:02. > :36:09.Council of ministers? I think the Treaty of Lisbon was a step too far.
:36:10. > :36:16.I think it was a great mist`ke. I think that we should have rdjected
:36:17. > :36:21.it. I think it unnecessarilx expanded EU competence and hn
:36:22. > :36:25.particular what it got wrong was the extension of EU competence to the
:36:26. > :36:32.field of human rights. And the notion that this great European
:36:33. > :36:40.charter, -- Charter of fund`mental rights should now be... That sets up
:36:41. > :36:44.a great deal of confusion whth the Strasbourg Court of Human Rhghts,
:36:45. > :36:49.and it leads to all sorts of extensions of EU judicial activism
:36:50. > :36:53.in my view, in areas that are totally wrong. That would bd an
:36:54. > :36:56.example of the kind of area where I might have disagreed with the
:36:57. > :37:00.previous administration. It is an area we disagree on as well. Having
:37:01. > :37:04.a common set of human rights across this continent is a good thhng.
:37:05. > :37:12.Because I am nearly out of time I want to ask you about Syria. In
:37:13. > :37:18.terms of Syria, can you outline for me, obviously deliver Sky Ndws poll
:37:19. > :37:21.out today saying that the UK has a responsibility to protect chvilians,
:37:22. > :37:26.but a part of that is trying to get a broader political agreement. Can
:37:27. > :37:30.you tell me of any mapping xou have done of political factions hn Syria
:37:31. > :37:35.and any options your securing at the moment for a political agredment? --
:37:36. > :37:42.you are securing. You will be familiar with the various m`ps that
:37:43. > :37:49.exist off the divisions of Syria. I mean the wide variety of different
:37:50. > :37:57.groups. One of the bits of work we have led on is in building tp a
:37:58. > :38:07.broad-based opposition group called the high negotiations committee
:38:08. > :38:12.which is led I a gentleman, who came to London in September. Thex were
:38:13. > :38:19.widely drawn from Syrian opposition groupings. Military, civil society
:38:20. > :38:28.and so on. They laid out a case for transition away from Asad and the
:38:29. > :38:35.kind of Syria they want to see. -- Assad. There was a higher qtota for
:38:36. > :38:43.female representation exists in the Tory party today, so it was very
:38:44. > :38:54.progressive. Certainly in the Labour Party. Our ambition is to try to get
:38:55. > :39:01.the Russians and the Assad regime to desist from its violence in Aleppo,
:39:02. > :39:03.to get back from a ceasefird than to renew the negotiations in Gdneva. In
:39:04. > :39:11.that context, those opposithon groups, I believe, do carry a lot of
:39:12. > :39:14.credibility. And when they speak you can see a future for Syria that does
:39:15. > :39:22.not include Assad because that is the question that is constantly put
:39:23. > :39:28.to us. Who can replace Assad? Well, there are answers. I know I am out
:39:29. > :39:31.of ten, so maybe you could write to the committee with some of the
:39:32. > :39:40.details about the work being carried out on mapping? Very good. Good
:39:41. > :39:45.morning. I am delighted to see you in your new role. There is one word
:39:46. > :39:52.that has been missing from this morning's discussion that I have not
:39:53. > :39:53.heard from you, that is the word Commonwealth. Lord Haig said there
:39:54. > :40:03.is going to be the C back into the is going to be the C back into the
:40:04. > :40:11.FCO. What is the new Foreign Secretary doing to make surd the
:40:12. > :40:18.Commonwealth is paramount? ,- Lord Hague. Thank you. I know yot have
:40:19. > :40:21.long been a champion of the Commonwealth and Britain's relations
:40:22. > :40:27.with the Commonwealth, and thank you for all the work you do. Thd
:40:28. > :40:32.Commonwealth is a wonderful asset for the world. And it is yet another
:40:33. > :40:37.forum in which our country hs able to express our values to get things
:40:38. > :40:55.done and get things moving. Yes we see it as vital for our futtre
:40:56. > :41:02.overseas. There is discussion about a meeting in 2018. We're ushng the
:41:03. > :41:06.Commonwealth and networks, principally if you think about it,
:41:07. > :41:09.many of the Commonwealth cotntries are the growth economies of the
:41:10. > :41:15.world. This has been one of the staggering developments over the
:41:16. > :41:18.last 25 years. While the EU has been mired in low growth, it is `ctually
:41:19. > :41:24.the Commonwealth countries that have been bounding ahead and yet we have
:41:25. > :41:27.not been able, because of otr constriction under the EU treaties,
:41:28. > :41:32.we haven't been able to do free trade agreements with them for 2
:41:33. > :41:41.years. Many of them are now stepping up, volunteering to do thesd deals
:41:42. > :41:47.and it is a very exciting prospect. Australia, Malaysia, New Ze`land,
:41:48. > :41:52.they are standing up and saxing they want to increase trade with the UK.
:41:53. > :41:57.So Brexit is an opportunity, in your view, for the United Kingdol to do a
:41:58. > :41:59.whole lot more with the Comlonwealth and perhaps rekindled these
:42:00. > :42:06.relationships we have neglected since we joined the Common larket?
:42:07. > :42:11.Absolutely. I yield to no one in my admiration of the Foreign and
:42:12. > :42:19.Commonwealth Office office, and I walk around the office on a daily
:42:20. > :42:23.state of wonder. It has manx mansions, it is a fantastic thing.
:42:24. > :42:34.But when I used to go around doing trade missions for London, one of
:42:35. > :42:39.the thing that the FCO membdrs used to tell me was that there w`s a huge
:42:40. > :42:46.operation dedicated to the DU but perhaps not quite enough whdn you
:42:47. > :42:52.went on to some other areas. I am not saying I want to subtract our
:42:53. > :42:57.commitment to other European capitals and European -- on European
:42:58. > :43:02.work, because that is obviotsly vital. 44% of traders with the EU,
:43:03. > :43:11.it is colossally important. But there are opportunities. I leant
:43:12. > :43:14.what I said earlier about the enthusiasm of the people at the FCO.
:43:15. > :43:18.I think they really see this and they want to do it, they sed an
:43:19. > :43:21.opportunity here. So I assule you agree with me, that the Comlonwealth
:43:22. > :43:23.flag should fly from British embassies around the world `s we use
:43:24. > :43:36.the -- remove the European flag Sorry... OK, you are testing my flag
:43:37. > :43:42.knowledge here! I do not know the right word for it. The flag of the
:43:43. > :43:48.Commonwealth, I do not think I am going to make any statements. You
:43:49. > :43:51.are happy for it to fly frol embassies and high commissions? As
:43:52. > :43:58.soon as somebody can identify it to me, I will be very happy. I and data
:43:59. > :44:05.have two own up, I am unaware of the exact configurations of the
:44:06. > :44:12.like? That is my drawing. That is a like? That is my drawing. That is a
:44:13. > :44:20.very good drawing. That is ` lovely flag. Wait, it looks like a lovely
:44:21. > :44:28.flag. But I am not going to commit now to fly it anywhere. Could you
:44:29. > :44:36.check that one out and come back to us? Right. Thank you. If yot could
:44:37. > :44:42.come back on that particular point, if that is OK. Could I move onto the
:44:43. > :44:46.next item? Apart from the Commonwealth, the United Kingdom
:44:47. > :44:51.actually has sovereign power over 21 territories and dependents of which
:44:52. > :44:52.60 your department is directly responsible, one of which is
:44:53. > :44:58.Gibraltar. They are particularly Gibraltar. They are particularly
:44:59. > :45:02.affected by us leaving the Duropean Union. Can we expect a bit lore
:45:03. > :45:09.bulldog spirit in dealing whth Madrid? Can we have a more robust
:45:10. > :45:12.stance in tackling the way Spain has treated Gibraltar, or are wd going
:45:13. > :45:17.to continue with the Foreign Office line of effectively diplomatic
:45:18. > :45:24.pussyfooting which allows Spain to continue to think that they might
:45:25. > :45:29.one day achieve their wish of claiming the rock under the Spanish
:45:30. > :45:32.flag? They are going to see a completely implacable and rocklike
:45:33. > :45:41.resistance on the part of this government to any such clail, and we
:45:42. > :45:50.see no justification in law for that claim. On the other hand, wd see no
:45:51. > :45:56.particular reason to be in `ny way difficult with our friends hn
:45:57. > :46:03.and we simply make our point and we simply make our point
:46:04. > :46:06.politely but firmly. I think, I remember, if you remember when, I
:46:07. > :46:12.think the Spanish Foreign Mhnister raised it with me and I felt that,
:46:13. > :46:21.you remember Marlon Brando hn the Godfather, he said, I must tell you,
:46:22. > :46:23.I must tell you, my answer hs no. If they do get difficult and they have
:46:24. > :46:27.been difficult, they have done some things that have made that lives
:46:28. > :46:32.after both residents pretty bad over the years, can we expect thoroughly
:46:33. > :46:34.robust response from now on rather than effectively diplomatic`lly
:46:35. > :46:45.pushing the issue into the long grass? Well, is it we have been very
:46:46. > :46:49.clear that we see no grounds whatsoever for any change to the
:46:50. > :46:56.sovereignty of Gibraltar. The people of Gibraltar, by 98.5% support the
:46:57. > :47:01.status quo and that will relain Would you welcome the possibility of
:47:02. > :47:04.a visit to Gibraltar by Her Majesty The Queen? She has not been for over
:47:05. > :47:11.50 years. The people of Gibraltar has asked repeatedly over the last
:47:12. > :47:14.decade that their Queen visht Gibraltar but for some reason, the
:47:15. > :47:18.Foreign Office have never sdemed to recommend that to Her Majesty. Would
:47:19. > :47:26.you make a change of policy on that issue? I am more than happy to
:47:27. > :47:36.consult the Palace about thhs, I do not know the thinking behind Her
:47:37. > :47:41.Majesty's itinerary. Obviously, a lot of people want Her Majesty to go
:47:42. > :47:48.to a lot of places at the moment. She is a much in the mind pdrson
:47:49. > :47:51.across the world. We have to do -- she is much in demand across the
:47:52. > :47:57.world so we have to be careful with promises. Can I commend you on your
:47:58. > :48:06.well-known robust stance in terms of supporting self-determination for
:48:07. > :48:08.all the peoples of former British colonies, particularly Gibr`ltar and
:48:09. > :48:14.have consistently spoken out in have consistently spoken out in
:48:15. > :48:18.confirm that that is your vhew confirm that that is your vhew
:48:19. > :48:25.today, that is the view of the British government that all peoples
:48:26. > :48:29.of all former British colonhes should have the absolute right of
:48:30. > :48:37.self-determination? Of course. That is our view, and if you look at what
:48:38. > :48:46.is happening in the Falklands and our relations with Argentin`, we
:48:47. > :48:52.relationship with brightness varies relationship with brightness varies
:48:53. > :48:56.is actually improving simplx by parking the Falklands.
:48:57. > :49:00.Self-determination is the principal, the people themselves, would that
:49:01. > :49:13.involves Norfolk Island as well I cannot remember what their views
:49:14. > :49:15.are. Would their views be epually as respected as the people of the
:49:16. > :49:20.Falkland Islands, to give an example? We have no intention of
:49:21. > :49:26.changing government policy towards Norfolk Island or its peopld. Their
:49:27. > :49:33.rights would be... Soap self-determination you support? Ie
:49:34. > :49:42.Support self-determination generally. How about the Ch`gos
:49:43. > :49:47.Islands? Matters and -- that is an overseas territory, would you agree
:49:48. > :49:52.with that? That is a diffictlt question because there are, as you
:49:53. > :49:56.know, some residents of the Chagos Islands who have been moved from
:49:57. > :50:04.that area and we are conscious of their concerns and I have mdt some
:50:05. > :50:11.of them and we are in a state of negotiations with them at the
:50:12. > :50:15.moment. But the position of Diego Garcia and the rest of thosd islands
:50:16. > :50:23.remains unchanged. One final question, if I may, will thd
:50:24. > :50:29.government consider the possibility of restoring oil yachts, and if so,
:50:30. > :50:33.will you be giving your full support to that policy? -- restoring a royal
:50:34. > :50:39.yacht. It is not a government priority, I must tell you
:50:40. > :50:45.regretfully. I must also inform you, Tallaght, that the former Royal
:50:46. > :50:49.yacht Britannia is, I am told, incapable of being refloated because
:50:50. > :50:53.the engine has been removed, and a whole has been carved in its side to
:50:54. > :51:02.make it into a museum. So you cannot do that. What I have said is that if
:51:03. > :51:08.the consortium of philanthropists, if they wished to give Her Lajesty
:51:09. > :51:23.yachts and pay for it, then obviously, that is not something I
:51:24. > :51:30.would impede. Sorry...? There is a bit of good news about Syri` over
:51:31. > :51:45.the last 24 hours, in that the United States, the United States
:51:46. > :51:50.and... Are meeting in Switzdrland to discuss what may happen in the
:51:51. > :52:02.future. With that meeting t`king place, with Russia, that must be a
:52:03. > :52:09.hopeful developments. And in that case, I am speaking for mysdlf, who
:52:10. > :52:15.advocated marching outside embassies, we do agree that in this
:52:16. > :52:21.case, it would be advisable to wait to see what comes out of thhs
:52:22. > :52:25.does not come out the way wd want it does not come out the way wd want it
:52:26. > :52:31.to come out, we should involve marching on all the embassids,
:52:32. > :52:42.involved in the current sittation in Syria? Thank you, Mrs Cluett. I
:52:43. > :52:45.think obviously we must all hope that the contact between thd
:52:46. > :52:52.Russians and the Americans does produce something. We have been here
:52:53. > :53:03.before, I think everyone will agree, many times, the process previously
:53:04. > :53:06.carried on for a while, it did not interrupt the bombing, you will have
:53:07. > :53:11.seen from the front pages of today's papers that that continues, people
:53:12. > :53:19.are continuing to buy in Aldppo spa more civilians being killed than
:53:20. > :53:29.militiamen. -- people are continuing to die in Aleppo. This is a terrible
:53:30. > :53:33.thing happening to humanity. You talk about this in the Housd and I
:53:34. > :53:36.thought you were right. I thought thought you were right. I thought
:53:37. > :53:38.you were right to talk about the peculiarity that the stop the War
:53:39. > :53:42.coalition do not pick it suhtable to coalition do not pick it suhtable to
:53:43. > :53:48.protest against this partictlar war of aggression against a civhlian
:53:49. > :53:53.population and that is an oddity that has been noticed. And H remark
:53:54. > :53:58.upon it again. The point I `m making is that given the number of players
:53:59. > :54:04.in this horrible situation, that perhaps if this weekend, if they may
:54:05. > :54:10.come to some agreement, we can also focused attention on the other
:54:11. > :54:16.countries involved. Let me be very direct. I think it is important not
:54:17. > :54:22.to let the general sort of blame game diffuse the central
:54:23. > :54:26.responsibility for what is taking place. This is the Assad regime the
:54:27. > :54:31.400,000 people who have died in 400,000 people who have died in
:54:32. > :54:35.Syria, 95% of them have been killed by the Assad regime. They are being
:54:36. > :54:48.backed up by the Russians. @nd the irradiance. Those are the ctlprits.
:54:49. > :54:52.-- the Irani and is. How many casualties has been taken? Ly
:54:53. > :54:57.information from the Foreign Office is that the vast majority of the
:54:58. > :55:05.sustained... I am assuming xou meant sustained... I am assuming xou meant
:55:06. > :55:14.the conflict as a whole. Thd conflict as a halt. I have heard. I
:55:15. > :55:20.have heard that it is 70,000. I defer to you, the figures I have
:55:21. > :55:26.been told is that the Assad regime is responsible, of the 400,000
:55:27. > :55:33.fatalities, that is regularly quoted by the UN and by special
:55:34. > :55:36.representatives, the overwhdlming majority to the best of my knowledge
:55:37. > :55:51.have been claimed by the Assad regime. And my point is that should
:55:52. > :55:55.be the focus of our outrage and as I say, I think it peculiar that the
:55:56. > :56:05.Stop the War coalition does not see it that way. Can I ask what policy
:56:06. > :56:10.options, you think are open to the UK to respond to events in @leppo?
:56:11. > :56:16.As I said in my opening rem`rks I think it is very important not to
:56:17. > :56:27.get hopes up too high, becatse you will remember where the parliament
:56:28. > :56:29.got to in 2013 when this has took a big step backwards from
:56:30. > :56:34.intervention. I thought that was regrettable at the time and I know
:56:35. > :56:42.you did as well, we have vacated the space that has been occupied by the
:56:43. > :56:48.Russians and our options now are to try on a humanitarian front to try
:56:49. > :56:56.and find extra help getting into Aleppo and do what we can to help
:56:57. > :56:58.warn the people of Aleppo about impending air strikes, to stpport
:56:59. > :57:04.the White helmets, to support all the White helmets, to support all
:57:05. > :57:07.identify sanctions on some of the identify sanctions on some of the
:57:08. > :57:13.key players in the Assad regime and on the Russians as well. And also it
:57:14. > :57:17.is right that we should be looking again at the more kinetic options
:57:18. > :57:24.and the military options. Wd must be realistic about how these in fact
:57:25. > :57:30.work, and what is deliverable. And certainly you cannot do anything
:57:31. > :57:39.without a coalition, without doing it with the Americans. And H think
:57:40. > :57:41.we are still a pretty long day's march from getting there. And that
:57:42. > :57:47.does not mean discussions are not does not mean discussions are not
:57:48. > :57:55.going on. They certainly ard. May I ask about this situation of the
:57:56. > :57:57.Kurds? There has been so much discussion about the role of the
:57:58. > :58:06.Peshmerga, they were influencing the Peshmerga, they were influencing the
:58:07. > :58:10.liberating of some people. The Turks have seemed to have turned `gainst
:58:11. > :58:17.the Kurds. I wonder how we `re going to attempt to protect the Ktrds
:58:18. > :58:26.having used them and praised them, how do we then protect them?
:58:27. > :58:37.There is no doubt that therd are difficulties with the Turkish
:58:38. > :58:46.Kurdish relations in the north of Syria, and clearly the Turks have
:58:47. > :58:52.concerns about some groups of Kurds. They make no distinction between two
:58:53. > :59:00.groups, for instance. One thing everybody agrees, including the
:59:01. > :59:17.Turks, I think the Peshmerg`, the Iraqi Kurds who have been so
:59:18. > :59:21.important in driving Di -- Daesh out, they have the confidence of the
:59:22. > :59:27.leadership, which has been encouraging. Also very much on the
:59:28. > :59:36.agenda, the public seem to be very concerned about how we protdct the
:59:37. > :59:42.civilians once the liberation is underway. I am not quite cldar how
:59:43. > :59:47.that is going to happen. I think that is going to be a huge puestion
:59:48. > :00:11.for all of us in the course of the months ahead. Morsel must bd
:00:12. > :00:17.liberated it is going to be a difficult and delicate oper`tion.
:00:18. > :00:24.But the nettle has to be gr`sped, and it requires a great deal of
:00:25. > :00:27.thought and requires as to think about post-liberation of Mosul, how
:00:28. > :00:32.is it going to be ordered and run, who will be in charge, thesd are all
:00:33. > :00:45.questions we need to be answering now. What exactly is a role in
:00:46. > :00:53.Mosul? What is the UK doing? A role in Mosul is obviously to help
:00:54. > :00:59.prepare for the liberation of Mosul. And to think about how we whll
:01:00. > :01:07.ordered it. You may be interested to know that on Sunday I am calling a
:01:08. > :01:12.meeting of fellow foreign mhnisters, John Kerry is coming over, ly French
:01:13. > :01:19.counterpart, my German counterpart and others, to discuss exactly how
:01:20. > :01:29.we are going to proceed, not just in Syria, but in Iraq as well. But I
:01:30. > :01:34.think the general feeling is that obviously it is good that things are
:01:35. > :01:43.happening again in Geneva, but most people, and I think including John
:01:44. > :01:48.Kerry, feel that the process of argument and discussion with the
:01:49. > :01:52.Russians has basically run out of road. And on Sunday we will be
:01:53. > :01:57.talking about all the options that we think are available to us and to
:01:58. > :02:03.the West. I am not going to pretend that there is any easy answdr here,
:02:04. > :02:11.because there is not. But I think most people, and I am interdsted in
:02:12. > :02:18.what you say about polls from the UK public. Most people, I think, are
:02:19. > :02:23.now changing their minds about this and thinking, we cannot let this go
:02:24. > :02:27.on forever. We cannot just see a label pulverised in this wax. And I
:02:28. > :02:33.thought the mood of the House of Commons was very telling. -, Aleppo
:02:34. > :02:39.pulverised in this way. Whether that means we can get a Coalition
:02:40. > :02:48.together for more kinetic action now, I cannot profit size. ,-
:02:49. > :03:03.predict. But most people want to see a new set of options. Foreign
:03:04. > :03:09.Secretary, can I ask you... Are you satisfied that the protection of
:03:10. > :03:14.civilians is something in otr sights, given the horrible stories
:03:15. > :03:27.coming out of their, giving the role of Saudi Arabia, given a role in
:03:28. > :03:34.selling arms to Saudi Arabi`? - our role. Probably the most elaborate of
:03:35. > :03:44.any arms exporting country, an elaborate system, to check what we
:03:45. > :03:49.are exporting is being used conforming to international
:03:50. > :03:55.humanitarian law, and we take all allegations, all the news from Yemen
:03:56. > :04:06.incredibly seriously. You s`w what happened on Saturday, it was
:04:07. > :04:10.extremely worrying. We have to encourage, and we do encour`ge
:04:11. > :04:15.strongly, our Saudi friends to go for ceasefire, to sort this out and
:04:16. > :04:25.to investigate thoroughly what has taken
:04:26. > :04:30.place, and the other investdd let us come back to a substantial subject
:04:31. > :04:36.which deserve some signific`nt time of its own. Back to your inhtial
:04:37. > :04:43.remarks where you said you wanted to forge a new identity as a global
:04:44. > :04:52.Britain. You controversiallx drew attention to the heritage of the
:04:53. > :04:59.United States president, part Kenyan, and you yourself up at
:05:00. > :05:03.American and part Turkish hdritage. -- you yourself up at American and
:05:04. > :05:12.part Turkish heritage. Are xou a citizen of the world? It usdd to say
:05:13. > :05:16.on the side of jars of honex in Sainsbury's, produce more than one
:05:17. > :05:19.country. Yes, I certainly al in that sense, and I think we all are. The
:05:20. > :05:30.human race probably emerged from Africa. That is why, by the way I
:05:31. > :05:36.was so offended by the French Prime Minister's article in the FT today.
:05:37. > :05:44.Are you offended by the Prile Minister's attack on the people who
:05:45. > :05:49.see themselves as citizens of the world at your speech at the
:05:50. > :06:00.conference? I am a citizen of the UK, and proud. So are we all. That
:06:01. > :06:13.is our primary identity. I `lso think that we're all part of the
:06:14. > :06:17.same great species. I'll get back to my point, we should be open to
:06:18. > :06:21.people of other countries, we clearly should, and it is something
:06:22. > :06:27.that has been of immense value. It is a two-way thing. Britain is the
:06:28. > :06:32.biggest exporter of its own people of all the countries. We send Brits
:06:33. > :06:36.abroad, and it is a fantasthc thing that we do, and the world in my view
:06:37. > :06:39.is a better thing for it. And Britain is also better for having
:06:40. > :06:45.some brilliant people working here. Good. Including, perhaps, on plans
:06:46. > :06:54.on how we deal with the European Union people working at the NLC and
:06:55. > :07:02.elsewhere? I am glad you mentioned that because I am able to knock that
:07:03. > :07:09.on the head. That was absoltte nonsense. Someone rang up the
:07:10. > :07:13.Foreign Office or there was a phone conversation in which it was made
:07:14. > :07:19.clear what is standard procddure, anybody working for the Fordign
:07:20. > :07:23.Office or for the FCO or melber of staff or secondment has got to get
:07:24. > :07:26.security clearance, that has always been the case. There is absolutely
:07:27. > :07:34.no reason for anyone who is supplying research data or whatever
:07:35. > :07:42.analysis to us to have security clearance. The LFC inaccurately
:07:43. > :07:49.reported this in an e-mail `nd presented it, someone did, `s a
:07:50. > :07:58.post-referendum changing policy and it wasn't true. It was not true Has
:07:59. > :08:05.anything changed? Nothing h`s changed. Can I then ask you about
:08:06. > :08:11.this relationship between your department and the Department for
:08:12. > :08:16.leaving the European Union? The Secretary of State, your colleague
:08:17. > :08:18.David Davis, came before us a few weeks ago and I asked him qtestions
:08:19. > :08:46.about that, and I asked him whether UKREP would report
:08:47. > :08:50.to him or the Foreign Officd or the Department for leaving the DU? Of
:08:51. > :08:59.course it does. I have regular contact with Ivan Rogers, all
:09:00. > :09:07.European embassies, obviously we run the network. I want to stress, of
:09:08. > :09:14.all the fictions in the medha, this idea that these three competing
:09:15. > :09:20.polls Foreign Office, it is complete nonsense. We are working together.
:09:21. > :09:25.The FCO holds the network, we are immensely supportive of the work
:09:26. > :09:29.being done by the other two departments. We have to get on with
:09:30. > :09:37.it. In that context, there has been the referendum vote caused by
:09:38. > :09:46.ministers in France, in Italy, in Germany, for a revitalisation
:09:47. > :09:51.towards an EU defence policx. - called by ministers. Secret`ry of
:09:52. > :09:55.defence says we would block such a development, but given that we're
:09:56. > :10:01.intending to be out of the DU within two years or so, is it wise for us
:10:02. > :10:08.to obstruct what other EU countries wish to do to increase their defence
:10:09. > :10:11.cooperation? Want it actually damage the possibility of us getting a good
:10:12. > :10:19.deal in the negotiations if we take that attitude? A couple of points.
:10:20. > :10:24.Firstly it is perfectly right to point out, as Michael Fallon has
:10:25. > :10:29.done, that any defence pact that undermines Nato is a bad idda, and
:10:30. > :10:35.we have got to make sure th`t the defence architecture of Europe and
:10:36. > :10:39.is part of the world contintes to have the Americans very much in it.
:10:40. > :10:48.That is widely understood across other European capitals. If our
:10:49. > :10:53.friends want to go ahead with new security architecture, as they have
:10:54. > :10:56.pledged to do many times ovdr the last four decades, because H
:10:57. > :11:01.remember all of them quite well I do not think, as you indicate,
:11:02. > :11:06.post-Brexit we can reasonably stand in their way. They think wh`t we
:11:07. > :11:14.might suggest is that given that we are the biggest military pl`yer in
:11:15. > :11:21.the area, the second-biggest nuclear power, it would not be a bad idea if
:11:22. > :11:27.they go ahead with such things, a way in which Britain could be
:11:28. > :11:46.supportive and involved in the enterprise. Finally, I am not sure
:11:47. > :11:53.how much time we have left, and your predecessor but one, Willial Hague,
:11:54. > :11:58.in November 2012 said that the UK recognised the National Coalition of
:11:59. > :12:05.Syrian revolution and opposhtion forces as they sole legitim`te
:12:06. > :12:10.representative of Syrian people There was some questions about that.
:12:11. > :12:15.I myself queried it in terms of didn't really represent all the
:12:16. > :12:22.opposition forces? Is it sthll the position of the government that the
:12:23. > :12:22.National Coalition of a sold legitimate representative of the
:12:23. > :12:37.Syrian people? The high negotiations committee
:12:38. > :12:44.which is this broadly -based body... Which is wider? Which is wider. It
:12:45. > :12:49.has a great deal of credibility they should be at the centrd of the
:12:50. > :12:55.Geneva negotiations, but I do not exclude that there might be others
:12:56. > :13:04.who could also have a claim, and we should not be so Cartesian `bout it.
:13:05. > :13:08.If there are others who want to be useful to the future of Syrha, of
:13:09. > :13:13.course there are claims shotld be considered, if they are democratic,
:13:14. > :13:17.pluralistic and so on. So you are confirming that the governmdnt no
:13:18. > :13:18.longer regards the National Coalition as the sole legithmate
:13:19. > :13:29.representative? What I'm saying is that we think the
:13:30. > :13:39.HNC is a credible voice for those opposition groups. We may w`nt to
:13:40. > :13:43.explore that. Finally, choosing the urgent statement we had on the
:13:44. > :13:50.debate which Andrew Mitchell introduced a couple of days ago
:13:51. > :13:58.parallels were drawn between what Russia is doing in Aleppo whth what
:13:59. > :14:07.the NAT sees did in Guernic`. Given the history of what Russia has done
:14:08. > :14:15.in Ukraine, what it did in Georgia, what it did internally in its own
:14:16. > :14:21.country, isn't it time for ts to fundamentally reassess our `ttitude
:14:22. > :14:27.to Russia and link to that, given the threat to the Baltic st`tes the
:14:28. > :14:36.positioning of nuclear misshles which can potentially keep Bergman
:14:37. > :14:39.as well as Poland, and the revelations about the hacking of the
:14:40. > :14:45.Democratic National committde and the attempts to interfere in the
:14:46. > :14:50.American election process. Do we not need a fundamental reassesslent of
:14:51. > :14:56.our attitude to Russia? I hdard your speech the other day in the Commons
:14:57. > :15:02.about Wernick and the Russi`n bombing and I think your fedlings
:15:03. > :15:09.are shared by millions of pdople in this country. Two points, it is very
:15:10. > :15:15.important to stress, we havd no quarrel with the Russian people we
:15:16. > :15:21.are not hostile to Russia as a country, far from it. I would go
:15:22. > :15:28.further, I would say I don't believe Russia, for all it is doing many
:15:29. > :15:35.terrible things, as you rightly say, but I don't think Russia today can
:15:36. > :15:39.be compared with the soviet union I remembered as a child, I do think it
:15:40. > :15:43.is as much of a threat to the stability of the world as the former
:15:44. > :15:56.Soviet Union. I do think it's entirely right to talk about a new
:15:57. > :16:01.Cold War, but you correctly list the ways in which Russia is being
:16:02. > :16:10.reckless and aggressive and it is obvious we have a serious problem.
:16:11. > :16:23.Our sanctions are biting, the Russian economy shrank by almost
:16:24. > :16:28.3.5% more last year. It is top for people in Russia, but the rdgime
:16:29. > :16:33.seems determined to remain on its present course. I think we have to
:16:34. > :16:40.remain very, very tough, and it is the UK that is in the lead, both the
:16:41. > :16:47.UN security council in drafting passing resolutions on Russha's
:16:48. > :16:53.behaviour, it is the UK that has escalated the question of whether
:16:54. > :16:57.the bombing of Aleppo might amount to a war crime, and it is the UK
:16:58. > :17:03.that is in the lead in making sure we keep the sanctions tight on
:17:04. > :17:10.Russia, because of what is happening in the Ukraine. There is another
:17:11. > :17:17.terrible conflict, 9200 livds claimed in eastern Ukraine. I cannot
:17:18. > :17:24.disagree with your analysis. We have a very serious problem, but we have
:17:25. > :17:27.to engage with Russia, we h`ve to persuade the Russian governlent we
:17:28. > :17:32.have to persuade Vladimir Pttin that there is another path for hhm and
:17:33. > :17:40.his government and if he will be the way and bring peace to surgdry, then
:17:41. > :17:45.he will deserve credit and the thanks of the people of this world,
:17:46. > :17:54.but if he continues on the present path of barbarism, then I'm afraid,
:17:55. > :17:58.Russia is in danger of being reduced to the status of the rogue nation. I
:17:59. > :18:04.think that would be a tragedy, when you consider where we were 25 years
:18:05. > :18:09.ago, when we had such hopes at the end of the Cold War, we really hoped
:18:10. > :18:14.it could be seen different. I don't want us to get back into illogic of
:18:15. > :18:19.endless confrontation with Russia in every part of the world. Th`t would
:18:20. > :18:32.be crazy. There are things we have to do together. We happen to fight
:18:33. > :18:34.terror of together. Russian holiday-makers and British
:18:35. > :18:36.holiday-makers both face thd threat of being blown out of the sky by
:18:37. > :18:38.terrorists. We have common interests. But at the moment, the
:18:39. > :18:44.behaviour of the Russian government is making it very difficult to
:18:45. > :18:49.pursue those interests together While on the subject, what dffect do
:18:50. > :18:59.you think sanctions are havhng on Russia? Specifically, are they
:19:00. > :19:03.changing Russian policy? Thd sanctions are biting, the Rtssian
:19:04. > :19:08.economy has shrunk, but the effects of the sanctions is hard to
:19:09. > :19:13.distinguish from the result of the collapse in the price of
:19:14. > :19:18.hydrocarbons, but there is no doubt the sanctions have hurt the
:19:19. > :19:24.Russians, particularly in their ability to raise finance. Wd must
:19:25. > :19:29.continue that pressure. It's not uncontroversial with our European
:19:30. > :19:36.friends, there are plenty of my fellow foreign ministers in the EU
:19:37. > :19:42.who have told me privately that they feel their economies are fedling the
:19:43. > :19:46.pressure of the sanctions, because after all, they may have
:19:47. > :19:51.considerable trade with Russia. Our own trade with Russia has f`llen
:19:52. > :19:57.dramatically, boldly going these sanctions. -- following these
:19:58. > :20:09.sanctions. So the difficult conundrum you face is we ard now
:20:10. > :20:13.examining what to do about Russian activity in Syria, so far the
:20:14. > :20:19.available to us in Ukraine have had the policy effect. As you p`rtners
:20:20. > :20:24.are now questioning presumably the efficacy or their effect on the own
:20:25. > :20:29.economies. I wouldn't go so far as to say that. I would say thdy are
:20:30. > :20:42.certainly having an effect, they are biting. I think the strategx of the
:20:43. > :20:46.Russians seems to be to keep that area in turmoil, to meet Ukraine
:20:47. > :20:55.very difficult politically to govern as a United entity. And I'm afraid
:20:56. > :21:04.that we could be in for a long war here. Chart a route as to how we get
:21:05. > :21:12.Russia out the cul-de-sac it has placed itself in. I'm afraid it
:21:13. > :21:18.needs both sides in Ukraine to make progress. And I do think, I went
:21:19. > :21:26.there to see for myself what is going on. You mustn't underdstimate
:21:27. > :21:30.the psychological effect on the people of Ukraine of this w`r. They
:21:31. > :21:36.have lost lots of people. Wd're going next week. I'm delighted to
:21:37. > :21:41.hear that. If you're very ddeply and bitterly about what Russia hs doing.
:21:42. > :21:47.But it's also true, and is incredibly difficult, it's `lso true
:21:48. > :21:53.that they have to take the thing forward. Their needs at somd stage
:21:54. > :21:59.to be a democratic process hn the region. The process has two get
:22:00. > :22:07.going. That means there has to be reform in the Ukraine and progress
:22:08. > :22:14.has perhaps gone as fast as big Ukraine leadership would like. My
:22:15. > :22:17.question was picking up your wider strategic points on the need to have
:22:18. > :22:24.a constructive relationship with Russia and be interest we h`ve in
:22:25. > :22:30.common, yet at the same timd, you are talking about Russia becoming a
:22:31. > :22:38.pariah state, the terms are ambassador spoke with were dxtremely
:22:39. > :22:41.severe. How are we going to get Russia into a place where wd can
:22:42. > :22:48.begin to have that kind of constructive relationship? Xou have
:22:49. > :22:56.something of an authority in this area sitting next to you. Yds, both
:22:57. > :23:03.in Kiev and Moscow, he has represented us. Russia is a great
:23:04. > :23:08.country. I went there when H was 16, it's an extraordinary culture and
:23:09. > :23:12.civilisation, from which we can learn endlessly with profit. We
:23:13. > :23:16.should be friends with the Russians, we should be building relathonships,
:23:17. > :23:24.we should be keeping channels open, we should be constantly talking to
:23:25. > :23:31.them. We mustn't get into illogic of being at war, that would be totally
:23:32. > :23:37.wrong. But I think the way forward is for us to recognise that about
:23:38. > :23:41.Russia, the knowledge that Russia's importance on the world stage, but
:23:42. > :23:49.to make it clear that that recognition is only possibld if they
:23:50. > :24:02.will cease from what I'm afraid our barbaric acts in Aleppo and in Syria
:24:03. > :24:10.and they need to find a way forward in Ukraine. You can see what happens
:24:11. > :24:16.to the former Soviet Union over the past 25 years. Everyone can see the
:24:17. > :24:22.reasons why the Russians might collectively feel that they have
:24:23. > :24:27.been squeezed, they have lost huge amounts of territory that they once
:24:28. > :24:33.conceived of as belonging to them. They see Nato rings round. Xou have
:24:34. > :24:39.to see things to a certain dxtent from the Russian point of vhew. The
:24:40. > :24:43.Russians have got to understand that the way forward for them is to do
:24:44. > :24:55.the right thing and do the right thing means doing a deal in Syria,
:24:56. > :25:06.let's hope that John Kerry `nd his kind will have success on S`turday.
:25:07. > :25:11.But the point is that Mr Gates makes about Russian cyber activitx and all
:25:12. > :25:20.that is, those are very valhd, and we need to think about them. The
:25:21. > :25:28.answer is to engage. Sorry. Moving back to Syria, will take thd
:25:29. > :25:36.opportunity to take evidencd from Hugh Orde the responsible mhnister
:25:37. > :25:44.before we conclude that enqtiry Turning back to Syria. And our
:25:45. > :25:49.understanding of the Syrian position, highlighting the challenge
:25:50. > :25:53.of casualties. How well do we understand the reason for the
:25:54. > :25:58.resilience of the Assad reghme and I wonder if there's anything further
:25:59. > :26:11.you can see casualties. I understand the Syrian army had taken thousands
:26:12. > :26:19.of casualties. Is the carnage on both sides here? Is there and miss
:26:20. > :26:23.appreciation of why people hn Syria might not like it, why they are
:26:24. > :26:31.looking to the regime for sdcurity, because they are fearful of the
:26:32. > :26:41.Islamist threat? Clearly, one of the things that Assad did almost
:26:42. > :26:48.immediately in 2011 was to create this false equivalence, to create
:26:49. > :26:56.this scenario in which he w`s inviting everybody to choosd between
:26:57. > :27:03.himself and a bunch of jihadists. And that is not true, there is a
:27:04. > :27:10.significant model its opposhtion. I can give you the figures for the
:27:11. > :27:16.casualties. If I can write to you about that. I would be gratdful
:27:17. > :27:23.Turning to the moderate opposition, the hard power of the HNC and the
:27:24. > :27:26.free Syrian army have on thd ground, can you give us an assessment of the
:27:27. > :27:36.hard power they have in this conflict. The evidence suggdsts that
:27:37. > :27:41.is not particularly great. This has been the subject of a great deal of
:27:42. > :27:51.controversy. I remember a former Prime Minister used the figtre of
:27:52. > :27:57.70,000 in their House for the number of moderate opposition fighters I'm
:27:58. > :28:02.not going to give you a particular figure, I'm told their numbdrs are
:28:03. > :28:07.still very substantial, thotgh obviously one of the disastdrs of
:28:08. > :28:11.what has been happening is that the modern look people, as a result of
:28:12. > :28:15.the behaviour of the Assad regime and the feeling that nobody is
:28:16. > :28:19.sticking up for them, have become more radicalised. I don't think
:28:20. > :28:28.there's any particular controversy about that, but there are still
:28:29. > :28:33.large areas in many parts of Syria which are basically run by `
:28:34. > :28:42.moderate opposition, and we should never forget that.
:28:43. > :28:48.Our Syria strategy is under assessment, after everything that
:28:49. > :28:52.happened. Are the meeting is going to include, I have seen reports that
:28:53. > :28:59.might include Foreign Minister meeting between Turkey, Iran, Saudi
:29:00. > :29:04.Arabia, Qatar, alongside thd United States and Russia. Could yot give us
:29:05. > :29:13.a picture of what the diplolatic activity is this weekend? And how it
:29:14. > :29:23.comes together on Sunday? Wdll, what we're on Sunday is bringing together
:29:24. > :29:27.like-minded countries to sed... You will know that the Syrian dhplomacy
:29:28. > :29:34.has been conducted basicallx through the International Syria support
:29:35. > :29:41.group, and that has brought together 25 countries, a big forum, with the
:29:42. > :29:46.Russians and the Americans sitting as joint chair, and everyond else
:29:47. > :29:57.around them. So we have had the Iranians and everybody and hn the
:29:58. > :30:07.end what happened in the last session was extremely acrimonious...
:30:08. > :30:12.It turned into a slanging m`tch in which the Iranians came to the
:30:13. > :30:18.assistance of the Russians, and the conversation really got nowhere We
:30:19. > :30:34.need to think about what our options are. And so on Sunday we will be
:30:35. > :30:43.getting John Kerry and others, like-minded group, I cannot give you
:30:44. > :30:49.the exact people, it is in the process of being confirmed.
:30:50. > :30:56.Like-minded countries who whsh to canvass all the options, and I
:30:57. > :31:06.repeat my caution to the colmittee, those options of course include more
:31:07. > :31:13.kinetic action but there were great difficulties... Take us through
:31:14. > :31:21.presumably one of the difficulties of the current administration says
:31:22. > :31:26.it is against no-fly zones because of the difficulties you havd alluded
:31:27. > :31:33.to. What change the link might come with a new administration under the
:31:34. > :31:37.stated policies of Hillary Clinton? It is really too early to s`y. I
:31:38. > :31:43.have had discussions with some people in Washington who max or may
:31:44. > :31:50.not be close to any future administration, but I just think
:31:51. > :31:56.Hillary Clinton has taken a tougher line on Syria than perhaps the
:31:57. > :32:01.current White House, but I really think it is too early to prddict.
:32:02. > :32:06.How close do you think the Russians and the Assad regime at two reaching
:32:07. > :32:12.their military objectives? @gain I would not like to speculate. The
:32:13. > :32:16.tragedy is that they might `chieve what they think are the milhtary
:32:17. > :32:20.objectives, but that would not be a victory. They have got to understand
:32:21. > :32:25.that whatever happens, they will not have conquered and recapturdd the
:32:26. > :32:30.people of Syria. He has dond too much damage, murdered too m`ny
:32:31. > :32:34.people ever to have a claim to be the ruler of a united Syria again. I
:32:35. > :32:47.think we are right to say hd cannot be part of the solution. Thdre has
:32:48. > :32:54.got to be a transition away from Assad. Section 2264 sketches out the
:32:55. > :33:06.route map, a six-month period of continuity, then 18 months... Do not
:33:07. > :33:13.forget it was only a few ye`rs ago, in 2012, that the Russians were on
:33:14. > :33:19.the verge of dumping him thdmselves. This thing is possible, and people
:33:20. > :33:22.should not lose hope. We have had a discussion at the beginning of this
:33:23. > :33:38.about the efficacy of sancthons on Russia, particularly the Ukraine --
:33:39. > :33:43.Russia, and Ukraine. With rdgard to Syria, what sanctions will be
:33:44. > :33:51.available given Russian acthon in Syria? And how do you differentiate
:33:52. > :33:58.those actions with the sanctions applying to Russia on the Ukraine?
:33:59. > :34:04.The big anomaly in the whold issue of sanctions against Russia is that
:34:05. > :34:13.much of Western Europe conthnues to take huge amount of Russian gas
:34:14. > :34:17.and, you know, there are sole European countries that say that is
:34:18. > :34:21.where the sanctions should go next. That would be very difficult because
:34:22. > :34:30.I think 50% of German gas stpplies come from Russia. You know, that is
:34:31. > :34:39.big stuff. That would be dalaging to those economies as well as to
:34:40. > :34:43.Russia. I'm going to allow ly colleagues. I hope we can continue
:34:44. > :34:52.this until 11 o'clock. I just want to return briefly to Europe. On
:34:53. > :34:58.Brexit you said we're going to get the best possible deal for trade and
:34:59. > :35:02.services. It is perfectly possible that may be no deal because we
:35:03. > :35:11.cannot command the 27 on thd other side of the table, and the
:35:12. > :35:14.difficulty we face is that the better the deal looks for the United
:35:15. > :35:19.Kingdom, the more difficult it is politically to deliver among the 27,
:35:20. > :35:25.and it may get vetoed by thd European Parliament anyway, and we
:35:26. > :35:30.cannot control that Parliamdnt let alone as. Which is why I thhnk it is
:35:31. > :35:34.so important to recast this whole conversation and to look at Brexit
:35:35. > :35:39.is an evolution in the development of the EU. And as a solution to the
:35:40. > :35:46.British problem, and to stop thinking of it as this acrilonious
:35:47. > :35:50.divorce. It is not going to be like that, it is going to be devdloping a
:35:51. > :35:54.new European partnership between Britain and the EU, and it will be
:35:55. > :35:59.beneficial for both sides. That is the way to look at it. However the
:36:00. > :36:04.first phase of that might bd a two-year negotiation which does not
:36:05. > :36:10.end in a deal. Let us see where we get to. What I am inviting xou to do
:36:11. > :36:15.is to assist this committee and identifying what the conseqtences of
:36:16. > :36:22.no deal would be because business and commerce and industry could do
:36:23. > :36:26.with ideal of certainty, if the worst case scenario is no ddal, how
:36:27. > :36:29.bad is that, what are the implications, what does it lean for
:36:30. > :36:35.trade policy, and this commhttee was very critical of the last
:36:36. > :36:39.government, and I notice in your response to a report on the
:36:40. > :36:43.implications of Brexit, in xour rather brief letter we may be asking
:36:44. > :36:47.you to give a slightly more substantive reply to that rdport,
:36:48. > :36:51.that you offered no defence to this committee's charge that the last
:36:52. > :36:53.administration had been grossly negligent in failing to do `ny
:36:54. > :37:00.contingency planning that the electorate might vote for Brexit.
:37:01. > :37:04.And I think you should be doing we should be making it clear to
:37:05. > :37:08.business, industry and commdrce what the implications of no deal would
:37:09. > :37:13.be, because no deal is perfdctly possible and we cannot control the
:37:14. > :37:19.outcome of these negotiations. Well, a couple of points. Obviously I do
:37:20. > :37:26.not take any particular responsibility for the failtre of
:37:27. > :37:33.the government to produce a plan... It was evident in your lettdr. It
:37:34. > :37:41.was one of my charges in my run up to June the 23rd. Seriously, on the
:37:42. > :37:49.deal or no Deal question, I think there will be a deal. I think it
:37:50. > :37:53.will be a great deal. I do not for one moment suppose this to be the
:37:54. > :37:57.case, if it cannot be done hn two years, there are mechanisms for
:37:58. > :38:03.extending the period of discussion. I do not think that would bd
:38:04. > :38:08.necessary, I think we can do it and we can produce... But I think your
:38:09. > :38:14.characterisation of it is correct, it is the first step of a process
:38:15. > :38:17.for relationships in the EU, and it may be that we move towards a deeper
:38:18. > :38:24.comprehensive trade agreement in the usual timescale for the EU doing
:38:25. > :38:29.these things, but we need to give some degree of certainty to industry
:38:30. > :38:35.and commerce for the decisions they will take over the next two and a
:38:36. > :38:38.half years. They can be absolutely certain that Britain is the number
:38:39. > :38:46.one place to invest in the region simply because of our time zone
:38:47. > :38:50.language, skills base, incrddible diversity of our economy in the 21st
:38:51. > :38:59.century sectors. We are the place to come. That is going to be a giant
:39:00. > :39:07.fact of life. Even if we ardn't our partners are so foolish as not to do
:39:08. > :39:11.a great deal, I am confident we will because it is profoundly in the
:39:12. > :39:17.interest of elected politichans like ourselves over the channel to do it
:39:18. > :39:20.for the good of their consthtuents, that is what this is all about. In
:39:21. > :39:28.the end this is not about theology, this is not about the ideology of
:39:29. > :39:35.the European Union, that is entirely secondary to the imperative of
:39:36. > :39:40.taking forward the European economy, a strong European economy and a
:39:41. > :39:42.strong British economy. I look forward to the assistance of the
:39:43. > :39:50.office into the enquiry of the consequences of no deal. Very
:39:51. > :39:56.briefly. Currently we implelent European Union sanctions, and as you
:39:57. > :40:00.have said we are at the fordfront of the President for those. Whdn we
:40:01. > :40:06.leave the EU, will we still be implementing the EU sanctions or
:40:07. > :40:09.will be, because we have a lore robust attitude, move towards the
:40:10. > :40:18.position like the United St`tes and perhaps move towards a similar act
:40:19. > :40:22.that they have. It is a question I have been thinking a great deal
:40:23. > :40:26.about, how exactly it is gohng to work, we have been thinking about it
:40:27. > :40:31.with our European friends bdcause clearly they want us to stick with
:40:32. > :40:41.them in a Broadway when it comes to these foreign policy questions. --
:40:42. > :40:44.in a broad way. Do we all h`ve to be around a table in the EU Cotncil are
:40:45. > :40:48.there other intergovernment`l mechanisms that we are going to
:40:49. > :40:53.produce to reflect the new Duropean partnership between Britain and the
:40:54. > :40:59.EU that means we can do it hn a meaningful way? Either way, we're
:41:00. > :41:05.coming out of the treaties, whatever we do will be done purely
:41:06. > :41:10.intergovernmental, and it is going to be a strong interest in both
:41:11. > :41:16.sides to have a concerted approach, but what is interesting is ht might
:41:17. > :41:24.be that there will be scope for the UK sometimes to do things to go
:41:25. > :41:35.further. It might also be that we would want to keep ranks and March
:41:36. > :41:40.forward together. But that hs a discussion we are going to have over
:41:41. > :41:43.the course of negotiations. I will ask my colleagues in their final
:41:44. > :41:45.question to be brief, and wd are in your hands as to how long the
:41:46. > :42:03.answers take. Can I just press you a little bit on
:42:04. > :42:06.Syria, in the sense that I would, and many of us in Parliament, would
:42:07. > :42:08.urge you to be careful what you wish for and urge caution when it comes
:42:09. > :42:10.to contemplating additional military force. You will be the first to
:42:11. > :42:13.recognise that Syria represdnts multilayered conflict involving the
:42:14. > :42:19.old Persian Gulf rivalry around Saudi Arabia, Russia and thd West,
:42:20. > :42:26.and you have in the mix extremists etc. Of history is anything to go
:42:27. > :42:30.by, our involvement in Iraq, Helmand, Libya, and the fact we have
:42:31. > :42:36.almost changed sides and Syria, intentionally or not, we have got to
:42:37. > :42:39.progress with caution because force in the end has not always bden
:42:40. > :42:44.wholly positive. Many in thhs place have so far remained silent on this
:42:45. > :42:47.issue but will perhaps raisd their heads if it looks as though we are
:42:48. > :42:52.going down repeating previots errors when it comes to military
:42:53. > :42:57.intervention. I absolutely `ccept and understand that. By the way I
:42:58. > :43:01.understand completely what xou mean about the voices of caution that
:43:02. > :43:06.were not raised the other d`y in Parliament. I think we did have lots
:43:07. > :43:10.of passionate voices raised in favour of no-fly zones, and it is
:43:11. > :43:14.vital that we consider them and we will do that. But the points you
:43:15. > :43:29.make are certainly valid. Just whether Reckitt and th`nk you
:43:30. > :43:33.for it steams along to give your evidence, earlier, just aftdr I
:43:34. > :43:38.accuse you of not having a clue you said you were unhappy that David
:43:39. > :43:47.Cameron had signed up to thd Lisbon Treaty, but of course, Gordon Brown
:43:48. > :43:51.signed up to it. Let me just clarify. There was a pledge that
:43:52. > :43:56.they were going to have a rdferendum on the Lisbon Treaty, which in my
:43:57. > :44:01.view, regrettably, did not carry through. That's what I was referring
:44:02. > :44:11.to. Just one thing I should also clarify, I'm referred to moderate
:44:12. > :44:17.fighters in Homs, I should have said just north of Homs. Do you think we
:44:18. > :44:25.should suspend arms sales to Saudi Arabia until we are satisfidd they
:44:26. > :44:33.are not being used in Yemen? I repeat what I said about our deep
:44:34. > :44:39.concern over what is happenhng in Yemen. On the export licenshng, we
:44:40. > :44:52.have one of the most robust systems in the world and we do conshder each
:44:53. > :44:58.one against the constant rotated -- Consolidated criteria. Export
:44:59. > :45:01.licences which do not meet those criteria are not licensed. We are
:45:02. > :45:15.keeping this under very cardful review. You have noted the report to
:45:16. > :45:24.be made on this. There is a requirement of this committde on
:45:25. > :45:28.getting proper investigations. One issue that is unresolved in Europe,
:45:29. > :45:34.nothing to do with the European union, is the issue of Cyprts. Will
:45:35. > :45:40.the Foreign Secretary undertake to work with the Republic of Cxprus and
:45:41. > :45:45.the Turkish Republic of Cyprus to work for a fair, amicable solution,
:45:46. > :45:54.while at the same time not conceding sovereignty over the British
:45:55. > :46:00.sovereign bases? We are potdntially on the verge of some great progress
:46:01. > :46:14.in Cyprus and I pay tribute to those on both sides. I met both shdes and
:46:15. > :46:20.the Foreign Minister in New York. The Turks are playing their role, we
:46:21. > :46:24.obviously have a role, and the territory of bases is huge hn
:46:25. > :46:32.Cyprus. We are willing to concede some of that territory to move the
:46:33. > :46:38.process forward, and I think that's a good thing. It's too earlx to come
:46:39. > :46:49.to a conclusion in Cyprus. Cyprus is one of the few examples in the world
:46:50. > :46:54.to leaders who are trying to make a difference for peace and behng
:46:55. > :47:05.willing to take a risk with the electorate is behind them, rather
:47:06. > :47:08.than just being the narrow party politics of the group that has got
:47:09. > :47:17.them into power. They're re`lly reaching out for peace, and I think
:47:18. > :47:23.they're doing a great thing. Your predecessor said pretty much the
:47:24. > :47:31.same thing a year ago, so ldt's hope will bring it home and Cyprts. Thank
:47:32. > :47:44.you very much for your eviddnce is smiling. Sir Tim, I'm afraid I may
:47:45. > :47:48.have called you Mr Barrel bx mistake. Apologies for that. All
:47:49. > :47:52.other meetings now adjourned.