International Development Committee

:00:19. > :00:27.Can I welcome everyone to what is the final meeting of the

:00:28. > :00:33.International Development Committee of this Parliament?

:00:34. > :00:35.And just to say briefly in this public session what

:00:36. > :00:38.I've just said in a private session, thank all of my committee colleagues

:00:39. > :00:41.and the committee staff, but also to thank the many,

:00:42. > :00:44.many organisations and individuals whose evidence today

:00:45. > :00:50.effectively, and in particular to those who have submitted to our work

:00:51. > :00:55.We were keen as a committee still to have

:00:56. > :00:58.today's session because the set of issues that arise from both the food

:00:59. > :01:02.crisis and some of the broader issues around displacement and

:01:03. > :01:06.refugees in Africa are such a crucial set of issues,

:01:07. > :01:09.we didn't want them to have to wait until a new

:01:10. > :01:12.committee is formed after the general election.

:01:13. > :01:15.We have three panels of witnesses giving us evidence between

:01:16. > :01:19.now and 11:30, and I'm delighted to welcome our first

:01:20. > :01:24.witness, and we have four questions that we want to put to you over

:01:25. > :01:31.I will give you a chance, when I've asked the

:01:32. > :01:34.first question, to also introduce yourself.

:01:35. > :01:40.Can you describe to us your personal experiences of life in

:01:41. > :01:44.Thank you very much for inviting me to this important

:01:45. > :01:50.meeting, and I'm very glad to be at this enquiry.

:01:51. > :01:56.To start with, I had a very mixed feeling of leaving the

:01:57. > :01:59.refugee camp because when we fled Somalia

:02:00. > :02:02.during the civil war, I

:02:03. > :02:08.really wanted, our family wanted to get

:02:09. > :02:10.to the nearest safe haven, but

:02:11. > :02:14.we didn't get there because we thought we would be there and go

:02:15. > :02:23.And because I was trapped there, I was really

:02:24. > :02:29.But then when I look back, the conflict and the

:02:30. > :02:33.stories and the people are still undergoing threat,

:02:34. > :02:38.and displacement, I thought I would rather stay here.

:02:39. > :02:44.And growing up there was very difficult

:02:45. > :02:49.because they would throw me out and I had noaccess to employment, no

:02:50. > :02:56.freedom of movement and there was education,

:02:57. > :03:00.some sense of security, but there was nothing beyond

:03:01. > :03:06.Life is more than safety, life is about dignity, life is about

:03:07. > :03:12.freedom of movement, and I could not go out.

:03:13. > :03:17.All I knew was about the international

:03:18. > :03:22.organisations, like other people, that was my world.

:03:23. > :03:31.I cannot describe the whole experience in a few words.

:03:32. > :03:36.That was what life was like, in short.

:03:37. > :03:42.In terms of now and today, what would you say

:03:43. > :03:45.for Somali refugees who are still living there?

:03:46. > :03:49.What are the big concerns for them at moment?

:03:50. > :03:55.It is really the situation has gone very,

:03:56. > :03:59.very bad because of the critical situation, because of Kenya's demand

:04:00. > :04:06.It has gone from bad to worse, because people have no

:04:07. > :04:12.option now, they cannot go back to Somalia and Kenya doesn't want them.

:04:13. > :04:16.The international humanitarian response in terms of the food

:04:17. > :04:21.So they are in a situation where they

:04:22. > :04:25.are sometimes some of them forced to sign up to the programme to go back,

:04:26. > :04:36.In 2016, I met with a woman who was forced to return and when she went

:04:37. > :04:40.back to Somalia, her home was took by other

:04:41. > :04:43.people who were powerful in

:04:44. > :04:51.So her husband tried to demand that, he was killed

:04:52. > :04:54.because of that, and she was raped, she had to come back.

:04:55. > :04:57.And she came back, Kenya said, the people who

:04:58. > :05:01.went through the settlement programme will not be registered

:05:02. > :05:10.The Kenyan government said, they have

:05:11. > :05:13.to undergo a fresh individual status.

:05:14. > :05:18.This woman was disappointed, she was displaced again, the second

:05:19. > :05:22.And that is the situation at the moment.

:05:23. > :05:27.People, the food distribution has gone down 50% in

:05:28. > :05:36.And when they go back, because of the

:05:37. > :05:42.conditions, they can't live in Somalia, they have to again end up

:05:43. > :05:47.And they are in limbo because they're not...

:05:48. > :05:49.So that's the kind of situation people

:05:50. > :05:55.We are going to explore that a little bit

:05:56. > :05:57.Thank you very much for coming this morning.

:05:58. > :06:01.What has been the reaction of the refugees in the camp about the

:06:02. > :06:06.And what do you think the risk and challenges are?

:06:07. > :06:08.I know you've touched on some of what

:06:09. > :06:12.But what do you think the risks and challenges for those

:06:13. > :06:15.people wanting to return, or having to return, to Somalia?

:06:16. > :06:20.The risk is that they end up in IDP camps in

:06:21. > :06:26.Somalia because when they go back, what they promised in the programme,

:06:27. > :06:31.the integration, which the big thing is, because integration is a whole

:06:32. > :06:36.process after almost a quarter century, going back to a new place

:06:37. > :06:40.where you have no livelihood, no nothing.

:06:41. > :06:44.The risk is, because they can't find the lives they are

:06:45. > :06:48.looking forward to, they end up being in an IDP camp, and the

:06:49. > :06:52.situation at the camp is very bad, there's no, it is even much worse

:06:53. > :06:58.than in Dadaab, because they have health facilities at Dadaab.

:06:59. > :07:04.The other risk is that they decide again to

:07:05. > :07:12.They have to walks sometimes, some of them, when

:07:13. > :07:16.they come again, they don't find the support they need.

:07:17. > :07:20.And they're also stopped at the border.

:07:21. > :07:22.Because of the famine and the drought situation, it

:07:23. > :07:30.is going from bad to bad because the situation

:07:31. > :07:37.So, what you're saying is there's not really a realistic opportunity

:07:38. > :07:45.When you talk to the people, they tell

:07:46. > :07:48.you, of course, we want to go back to our country.

:07:49. > :07:51.Because they want it, they don't want to live in that camp

:07:52. > :08:01.They want to go when the situation is right,

:08:02. > :08:06.There are a few of them who have connections,

:08:07. > :08:10.still intact and their livelihoods and they have some support from the

:08:11. > :08:17.So when they go back, they start re-establishing their lives through

:08:18. > :08:20.their own connections, not through the integration, the support they

:08:21. > :08:23.promised, because that is never enough, it's never realistic.

:08:24. > :08:31.But for those, they find they can establish their lives.

:08:32. > :08:35.But the majority of them, they can't.

:08:36. > :08:39.So, that is just very few who can actually survive when they get back?

:08:40. > :08:42.And the people in the IDPs, they are in a much worse

:08:43. > :08:52.There's no education, they live in tents and

:08:53. > :08:56.The health and sanitation is very poor.

:08:57. > :09:01.And again, the security situation is very, very

:09:02. > :09:08.bad because they are exposed to rape and exploitation.

:09:09. > :09:15.They are separated from the main cities, so they live in

:09:16. > :09:21.Do they get any aid from any other countries like Great Britain or

:09:22. > :09:27.There are international organisations and local

:09:28. > :09:28.organisation supported by

:09:29. > :09:36.And they support them, but the sum they

:09:37. > :09:47.Because these people came from camp, they don't want to go to camp.

:09:48. > :09:53.These organisations feel like they are

:09:54. > :09:58.supporting, but they don't see that these people are not

:09:59. > :10:07.You cannot just say I'm supporting you because, this is not

:10:08. > :10:17.Now you are in your home country, you

:10:18. > :10:20.don't want to live in the same situation you are in in the camp.

:10:21. > :10:23.Yes, there are people supporting them, but it's not enough.

:10:24. > :10:28.It's fantastic you're here, thank you very much.

:10:29. > :10:31.Are refugees returning to Somalia voluntarily, or

:10:32. > :10:34.are they being coerced, do you believe?

:10:35. > :10:40.Because it's called voluntary, yes, they are doing so on

:10:41. > :10:45.their own, but the situation and the conditions in the Dadaab

:10:46. > :10:51.Because the Kenyan government is really pushing them to

:10:52. > :11:03.And because of the humanitarian support,

:11:04. > :11:05.the overall operation, it is scaled down.

:11:06. > :11:12.I remember when I was in Dadaab, we used to go to get

:11:13. > :11:19.And we used to get wheat flour, and oil and a lot of things,

:11:20. > :11:26.quantity was reduced and also the number

:11:27. > :11:27.of times people go, now they

:11:28. > :11:32.And everything is almost 50% reduced.

:11:33. > :11:35.So because they don't have that, and there is

:11:36. > :11:40.this campaign, the Somali government meeting with politicians in Kenya,

:11:41. > :11:45.they say, they come to the camps and they talk of paradise

:11:46. > :11:51.in Somalia, they talk of programmes put in

:11:52. > :11:57.place, people, they don't have much information.

:11:58. > :11:59.Because of the campaign from the government, Somali

:12:00. > :12:03.politicians, who are under the protection of African forces and

:12:04. > :12:08.live in very better lives, they come and tell them they have this for

:12:09. > :12:12.People, because they don't have enough in the Dadaab and Kenya is

:12:13. > :12:18.And also in terms of security, it's not even better.

:12:19. > :12:21.When anything happens, the Kenyan security forces come to the camps

:12:22. > :12:28.and beat them up and refugees feel like, we don't have any food,

:12:29. > :12:29.we don't have security and our politicians

:12:30. > :12:32.are telling us there is

:12:33. > :12:36.something for them in place, they end up voluntarily, in that sense,

:12:37. > :12:43.So, you don't feel that they are sufficiently informed?

:12:44. > :12:48.Are you getting sufficiently informed about

:12:49. > :12:53.Because the situation in Somalia is very fragile.

:12:54. > :13:00.What happens is that when, for example, you are

:13:01. > :13:04.pushed out of town and the government comes in, the information

:13:05. > :13:10.people receive in that town, now it is under the government control.

:13:11. > :13:14.People feel like, I don't have any good life here so I better go back

:13:15. > :13:23.So, in just a few days, they take over that

:13:24. > :13:28.So the information is not updated, it is not sufficient, people get

:13:29. > :13:30.that and they end up going to that area and

:13:31. > :13:32.they find themselves in a

:13:33. > :13:34.What options do you think are available

:13:35. > :13:40.Are any of them being turned into traffickers, to go elsewhere?

:13:41. > :13:45.I know a friend, we lived together in the same camp, who was

:13:46. > :13:57.He went to be, he allowed himself to be smuggled

:13:58. > :14:00.because he could not go back to Somalia and there was no education,

:14:01. > :14:06.He went all the way through Brazil, he is now, I found

:14:07. > :14:14.him on Facebook, and he works for broadcast TV.

:14:15. > :14:17.And he's one of the people, and he's just one example,

:14:18. > :14:22.He came out and spoke about his predicament and

:14:23. > :14:25.his plight, but many of them, they didn't talk about that

:14:26. > :14:32.because they ARE still undergoing being smuggled.

:14:33. > :14:35.Do you get a sense of where they're going, the people that are being

:14:36. > :14:43.Many of them come through the Mediterranean Sea, and some of the

:14:44. > :14:47.people, they are among the people who died in the sea.

:14:48. > :14:50.And no one knows about them because they don't

:14:51. > :14:54.talk about it, because their families are still in the camp and

:14:55. > :14:57.they don't want to say anything about that until they get to a safe

:14:58. > :15:04.So that's the challenge people are facing.

:15:05. > :15:09.And the other main issue of the whole programme

:15:10. > :15:12.and the whole agreement that is signed by Kenya and Unicef in

:15:13. > :15:17.Somalia, the refugees are not part of that.

:15:18. > :15:19.They are never given the opportunity to have a say, they have

:15:20. > :15:22.very strong leadership structure within the camp elected by their own

:15:23. > :15:24.refugees, they work voluntarily, they have meetings with

:15:25. > :15:35.organisations, with Unicef and Kenya.

:15:36. > :15:40.When it comes to signing this agreement that is affecting their

:15:41. > :15:47.lives they are not part of it. So what happens is the politicians sign

:15:48. > :15:53.this agreement and the comeback and it's been implement it like that.

:15:54. > :15:57.They are just looking at it from, saying this is your country now

:15:58. > :16:04.getting better, just go back. The refugees have different priorities,

:16:05. > :16:09.different needs. Some are therefore protection, they cannot go back,

:16:10. > :16:14.there are houses have been occupied. They are from a minority class and

:16:15. > :16:19.because of that situation, even if Somalia is safe it is not safe for

:16:20. > :16:25.them. There are those under the resettlement programme and they have

:16:26. > :16:33.been going through this process for ten years and they do not want to go

:16:34. > :16:36.back. There are no school, no functioning schools. There are

:16:37. > :16:45.different categories and needs which are not looked into. The agreement

:16:46. > :16:52.is signed and enforced. Thank you for coming. You are describing very

:16:53. > :16:56.movingly the challenges of living in Dadaab, the camp. You have described

:16:57. > :17:00.it as the third-largest city in Kenya in the past where people have

:17:01. > :17:04.according to what you are seeing today difficulty living with

:17:05. > :17:09.dignity. Can you give us any other examples of how difficult it is for

:17:10. > :17:16.people to develop businesses, to live dignified lives, the obstacles

:17:17. > :17:20.people face? Yes, people are not allowed to move out of the camp and

:17:21. > :17:25.the food they are getting is not enough. They started their own

:17:26. > :17:29.businesses within the camp. They get some support from the families who

:17:30. > :17:32.are resettled with little income they established their own

:17:33. > :17:36.businesses and the business flourished, the government in Kenya

:17:37. > :17:41.benefits from that, they take millions in tax from the people

:17:42. > :17:43.every year. And that money never comes back to them, it goes to

:17:44. > :17:49.infrastructure and it's not something that is set in a policy

:17:50. > :17:58.where people know how much they had to pay, they just come and take

:17:59. > :18:08.whatever amount they feel like. These people, they send the money to

:18:09. > :18:16.mobile, electronic transfer. It's much expensive, if the Kenyan

:18:17. > :18:22.government, if they facilitated a way of going to Nairobi where they

:18:23. > :18:27.can get the documents but now because of the issues nothing has

:18:28. > :18:40.changed and people, the whole business collapsed because there is,

:18:41. > :18:42.it is like Brexit, there is no certainty. So when the government

:18:43. > :18:47.said we are causing all the businesses, the people in Nairobi

:18:48. > :18:52.who they build relationships with your sending them goods, they said

:18:53. > :18:59.you guys are going so they ended up having nothing. So they have their

:19:00. > :19:05.own businesses but they are doing it in a very difficult situation.

:19:06. > :19:11.Right, it is not dignified. It is not dignified at all. So what do you

:19:12. > :19:18.think would be the best alternative to the camp based solution of

:19:19. > :19:21.helping large groups of displaced people? What suggestions do you have

:19:22. > :19:28.two best help people rebuild and continue their lives? One of the

:19:29. > :19:31.ways they can do is because the people in Dadaab themselves have

:19:32. > :19:36.demonstrated and shown the best way they can be supported, they said we

:19:37. > :19:40.want to live in dignity, we want to contribute to society, we are paying

:19:41. > :19:45.taxes. They have their own businesses, they just want to be

:19:46. > :19:52.given freedom of movement, employment, like Uganda for example,

:19:53. > :19:57.they are given rights to work. So they will not be a burden to Kenya.

:19:58. > :20:04.And they are not a burden at the moment. Kenya says they are a burden

:20:05. > :20:08.but they still get money from them. The best way is to give them

:20:09. > :20:15.employment rights. Last year I met with one of the young

:20:16. > :20:25.businesspeople, he is 25 now and he has his own business and he has

:20:26. > :20:30.connections with Nairobi, he has connection with businesses as far as

:20:31. > :20:35.Dubai. He makes furniture for weddings, so people in the camp they

:20:36. > :20:39.come to him when they have a wedding and so he has paid a lot of tax to

:20:40. > :20:45.the government. He said he was going to the Kenyan Department of affairs

:20:46. > :20:52.for months to get a document for him to be able to travel to Nairobi, to

:20:53. > :20:56.Dubai, and he said I'd not even want food, I have my own food, I can give

:20:57. > :21:03.you money, but please fertility it for me. So people like him, if he is

:21:04. > :21:08.given the freedom of movement and the freedom of employment he can

:21:09. > :21:14.help himself and also go back to his country when it's right for him. So

:21:15. > :21:17.the best way is to sit down with these people and categorise them

:21:18. > :21:27.according to their needs. People who cannot even work because they are

:21:28. > :21:30.very vulnerable. Some of them have protection. These people can be

:21:31. > :21:37.given resettlement whilst those who want to work can be given a work

:21:38. > :21:43.permit. Thousands of them who have gone through the Kenyan education

:21:44. > :21:45.system, some have qualifications as far as degrees and college but they

:21:46. > :21:50.don't have employment rights, they are just sitting there. The ones

:21:51. > :21:55.like this friend of mine who is now stuck in Mexico, he has got an

:21:56. > :22:02.education and he was never given any rights. So that's the challenge.

:22:03. > :22:10.When I finish my high school in one of the camp is I thought I could now

:22:11. > :22:20.work and pay and help my family but when I went to seek employment right

:22:21. > :22:24.I was told, this education is a privilege you have got, do not talk

:22:25. > :22:27.about anything else. I was disappointed, why was I wasting my

:22:28. > :22:33.time going through all these years working hard to make sure I get an

:22:34. > :22:39.education and it was sad. I end up working voluntarily at organisations

:22:40. > :22:46.and I work all the day and I am given lets see ?50 a month and I

:22:47. > :22:52.work throughout the month. So that was the kind of situation people are

:22:53. > :22:59.still facing. And your situation was typical of the young people,

:23:00. > :23:06.opportunities very difficult, very limited? Yeah. Thank you. Would you

:23:07. > :23:18.consider Somali refugees have a voice in deciding their future? Not

:23:19. > :23:23.really. They don't have. If they had a voice or if their voice was

:23:24. > :23:27.listened to the would not find themselves in that situation. You

:23:28. > :23:33.have no means of expressing your views? Yes, these meetings are held

:23:34. > :23:43.in Nairobi and people cannot go out to there. Thank you. The committee

:23:44. > :23:50.recently visited East Africa, Kenya, Uganda, and I think we would concur

:23:51. > :23:55.with what you have said about the enlightened approach of Uganda

:23:56. > :23:59.towards refugees. Is there something the government can be doing here to

:24:00. > :24:05.make the situation better? Yes, I would say the UK Government has

:24:06. > :24:14.leveraged to talk to Kenya and the UN in Kenya, to, I would say, let

:24:15. > :24:20.the UK Government advocate for these people. Ask the Kenyan government to

:24:21. > :24:24.live up to its promises of safeguarding these refugees and

:24:25. > :24:27.giving them rights. If the Kenyan government adopts the Ugandan policy

:24:28. > :24:33.it would make much difference in terms of security and the

:24:34. > :24:44.development and dignity and getting a solution for these people. The

:24:45. > :24:48.best thing to do is adopt the Ugandan refugee policy. Thank you

:24:49. > :24:57.very much indeed. Before we move on is there anything else you would

:24:58. > :25:05.like to add? I just want to take this opportunity to thank the UK

:25:06. > :25:07.Government for helping the refugees worldwide and particularly Somalian

:25:08. > :25:13.refugees. I want to speak to thank you and the half of the refugees

:25:14. > :25:19.forgiving, putting all this energy to make sure you help find solutions

:25:20. > :25:25.for displaced peoples, so thank you very much. A very big thank you to

:25:26. > :25:31.you for joining us today, for your powerful evidence to us and also

:25:32. > :25:35.your wider work and on a personal level wish you the very best of luck

:25:36. > :25:39.for your own future. We are going to move to the second panel now but

:25:40. > :25:43.please feel free to stay in the public gallery to listen to that

:25:44. > :25:48.evidence if you have time. Thank you very much indeed. Thank you. I will

:25:49. > :26:06.invite our second panel of witnesses to take to the stage.

:26:07. > :26:13.Thank you for joining us, we will go straight into questions but please

:26:14. > :26:17.will you answer please introduce yourself and your organisation.

:26:18. > :26:22.Thank you for attending the committee this morning, it is

:26:23. > :26:30.estimated at about 63 million people are currently displaced in the

:26:31. > :26:32.world, twice as many as in 2007. How do you see displacement in Africa

:26:33. > :26:42.fitting with the bigger global context? I can begin, I am the

:26:43. > :26:47.deputy executive director of International rescue committee here

:26:48. > :26:51.in the UK. I would like to begin by thanking the Prime Minister for her

:26:52. > :26:55.announcement last week to commit to 0.7% of gross national income to aid

:26:56. > :27:01.at this critical time. It's very much welcome and on behalf of the

:27:02. > :27:05.humanitarian timidity it is essential that they continue to play

:27:06. > :27:10.a leading role. With respect to your question regarding how the total

:27:11. > :27:14.number of displaced relates to conditions specifically in East

:27:15. > :27:18.Africa, we are continuing to see protracted displacement in terms of

:27:19. > :27:25.the Somali refugee population now numbering some in the region but

:27:26. > :27:30.also much more quickly south Sudanese numbers are almost the

:27:31. > :27:35.same, about 872,000 in the region. Why is this happening? A combination

:27:36. > :27:40.of factors, in south Sudan there have been now failed rains, it is

:27:41. > :27:45.entirely conflict driven that we are seeing these numbers. In Somalia we

:27:46. > :27:49.see a more complex situation of continuing impunity of operations

:27:50. > :27:54.for terror groups causing instability, lack of foreign troops

:27:55. > :27:58.in declining numbers they are but of course also failed rains. If you

:27:59. > :28:03.combine that with the fact stable countries like Kenya are likely to

:28:04. > :28:07.see the long rain fell this summer and already have over 3 million

:28:08. > :28:11.people who are in need of humanitarian assistance that number

:28:12. > :28:15.could go up to 4 million. We are seeing displaced people and refugees

:28:16. > :28:20.moving to countries or internally in places where there is already severe

:28:21. > :28:24.conditions and food insecurity is on the rise. It's the worst

:28:25. > :28:32.concentration and one of the worst examples crisis around the world.

:28:33. > :28:41.Thank you for inviting me. Just do conquer with what he said, I think

:28:42. > :28:47.we have a bit of a perfect storm of new emergencies overlapping with

:28:48. > :28:51.these protracted crises, that have not been resolved. I think the

:28:52. > :28:54.displacement numbers are very much an indicator of that lack of

:28:55. > :29:01.resolution. So in a context in which, the three solutions, if you

:29:02. > :29:09.like, repatriation has been the only one that's been pursued in any

:29:10. > :29:14.seriousness. It's meant it left the bulb, millions of people, for

:29:15. > :29:18.decades, in protracted exile, and when you add these emergencies on

:29:19. > :29:25.top of it, you have a deep crisis that has been allowed to evolve. In

:29:26. > :29:31.terms of conditions facing refugees in Africa, how does that compared to

:29:32. > :29:36.the conditions facing refugees in Europe and the Middle East? How

:29:37. > :29:42.could we help with those conditions to improve them? I mean, I don't

:29:43. > :29:47.like making, Paris and is, it's hard to make, and I don't know enough

:29:48. > :29:52.about the bill ease. But I would say that matter making, Paris and is.

:29:53. > :30:01.You have some of the purist refugees. -- comparisons. They're

:30:02. > :30:10.not on the public radar, in the global sense. There's a danger that,

:30:11. > :30:16.the numbers are so high. The places in which people are having to move

:30:17. > :30:22.to places, there's very bad access to. The profile of the crisis is

:30:23. > :30:27.buried bad. I would say these are the poorest of the brewer at the

:30:28. > :30:32.moment. I would say conditions vary, Uganda is one of the most

:30:33. > :30:41.progressive countries, they've taken eight and Sudanese, just come Paris.

:30:42. > :30:54.Europe took freeing and 69,000 refugees -- comparison. They've only

:30:55. > :30:57.got 5.4% of the appeal funded for it to respond, but it is still

:30:58. > :31:03.providing free health care, education, write to work, a plot of

:31:04. > :31:06.land if you want to farm it, or per refugees, was also porting their own

:31:07. > :31:11.population in the midst of it. Meanwhile, Kenya, we've seen it hard

:31:12. > :31:20.and its position in terms of strongly encouraging returns, and we

:31:21. > :31:25.heard that they have done that. The EU Turkey deal as a present for why

:31:26. > :31:30.it should also send refugees back to Somalia. It is a challenge for

:31:31. > :31:33.others that we need to address, that conditions are buried. In South

:31:34. > :31:38.Sudan, the last time I was there in the previous famine, people will

:31:39. > :31:45.eating water lilies in some of the roast areas in South Sudan because

:31:46. > :31:51.food was not reaching them. The appeal was underfunded, but conflict

:31:52. > :31:53.and insecurity meant humanitarians when giving access, not our fear,

:31:54. > :32:04.particularly in southern Somalia as well. Thank you. Perhaps we could

:32:05. > :32:09.also consider the case of Burundi and Tanzania. When we were in

:32:10. > :32:13.Tanzania last month, we were told there were 1000 refugees a day

:32:14. > :32:20.coming over from Burundi into Tanzania. There were ten and 50,000

:32:21. > :32:26.refugees from less than 100,000. If you could update us on that

:32:27. > :32:33.situation -- 250,000. The situation is very severe. We did some research

:32:34. > :32:38.recently on, to try to understand the scale and speed of that

:32:39. > :32:42.displacement crisis. Where the level of violence within Burundi was

:32:43. > :32:44.serious, but it seemed disproportionately the speed at

:32:45. > :32:50.which displacement in place in many respects. I think what we've found

:32:51. > :32:53.is a lot of those who are currently displays and are being displaced

:32:54. > :32:58.those who previously had been living in Tanzania, had tried to repatriate

:32:59. > :33:04.to root Burundi, but the process had failed. I think this is were Burundi

:33:05. > :33:13.points are many lessons that can be learned. In terms of failure. I

:33:14. > :33:18.think the way in which this process has turned to operate is buried that

:33:19. > :33:22.people are pushed over the border, given three months of rations and

:33:23. > :33:28.that is it. That is, clearly inadequate in this context. This

:33:29. > :33:33.will contribute to the situation and that then led to the displacement of

:33:34. > :33:37.the displacement of over freeing of thousand Burundi people. I think

:33:38. > :33:52.Tanzania -- 300,000. The people who fled in the 1970s

:33:53. > :33:58.were given large plots of land. By the 1990s, this hospitality had been

:33:59. > :34:03.seriously degraded. People would give a much smaller amount of land.

:34:04. > :34:08.It is important to watch what is going on there. I will just say with

:34:09. > :34:14.the Burundi situation, the flip of that is the success story, which is

:34:15. > :34:17.the government of Tanzania in 2008 actually offered naturalisation to

:34:18. > :34:24.over 200,000 other refugees, they were the ones who fled in 1972. Of

:34:25. > :34:29.that 162,000 except that the offer, and although the process did get

:34:30. > :34:34.snarled up into politics for a while, I think that's been a real

:34:35. > :34:38.success, because that was 132,000 people who have not been now

:34:39. > :34:45.displaced, and they have found a durable solution. I think that is an

:34:46. > :34:48.option around local integration, it should be considered in other

:34:49. > :34:54.situations as well. Do you actually have up to date figures on Burundi?

:34:55. > :35:02.Is it still 1000 a day? Has it slowed? I'm not exactly sure,. Less

:35:03. > :35:08.people fleeing, but returning at same time. They are complex

:35:09. > :35:14.situations, the situation in Burundi is very hard for people to read. It

:35:15. > :35:18.is not a conflict, it's a political crisis. For people to understand the

:35:19. > :35:23.level of danger is a really complex process. A lot of it, what we found,

:35:24. > :35:31.relates to the fact that people are wanting, our mood pre-emptively,

:35:32. > :35:36.particularly those caught up in 1972 1990s violence. Yes, the numbers are

:35:37. > :35:39.high, Tanzania has talked about closing its borders. I think the

:35:40. > :35:44.will of the Tanzania government has to be supported without a doubt,

:35:45. > :35:49.because it has shown itself willing to take in refugees. But I think

:35:50. > :35:57.these cams that have been closed down relatively recently and are now

:35:58. > :36:01.being opened have not like what is needed to house people.

:36:02. > :36:09.Nevertheless, the fact Tanzania has been so willing to accommodate a

:36:10. > :36:13.large inflow of people is something we should highlight. The other thing

:36:14. > :36:19.is to make sure the promises made in 2008 that surrounded that deal on

:36:20. > :36:22.naturalisation really did come to fruition. The worst thing that can

:36:23. > :36:26.happen is the international community doesn't come through on

:36:27. > :36:32.those promises, because then it sets a bad precedent. You are visiting to

:36:33. > :36:38.ships, we will help you with the local integration, but if that

:36:39. > :36:43.doesn't happen -- we will offer you citizens and ships. Is there a food

:36:44. > :36:49.issue there, is this a political crisis? Are we aware... In Burundi?

:36:50. > :36:53.There is a terrible food crisis, people are starving and Burundi.

:36:54. > :36:59.There are so few international actors on the ground. I travel

:37:00. > :37:02.across... We understood that the UK and possibly the US and one or two

:37:03. > :37:07.others are the only two supporters of that particular problem, because

:37:08. > :37:09.it's largely under the radar. It is under the radar, I travelled all

:37:10. > :37:14.over the south of the country and did not see any vehicle, there was

:37:15. > :37:22.no presence of the international community. It is very serious and

:37:23. > :37:25.very forgotten. Timekeeper highlighting -- thank you for

:37:26. > :37:31.highlighting it. Do you think another is being done by the Kenyan

:37:32. > :37:41.government, the Somali government and donors to mitigate the risk of

:37:42. > :37:46.return? I think when we think about returns, we need to think about full

:37:47. > :37:51.factors. Firstly, is it safe to do so? And secondly, also important to

:37:52. > :37:58.highlight, is a dignified, are they going somewhere where they can have

:37:59. > :38:00.a livelihood and the future? And are they properly informed when they are

:38:01. > :38:04.doing so? We've heard from the doing so? We've heard from the

:38:05. > :38:07.previous speaker around the challenge of information. Firstly,

:38:08. > :38:13.it is that of the dead, despite the best efforts of my colleagues to

:38:14. > :38:16.provide that. The situation is highly fluid and we had a tragic

:38:17. > :38:23.story of the woman and her husband who returned. Secondly, the safety

:38:24. > :38:26.aspect is one that is of real concern to us because the vast

:38:27. > :38:30.majority will be returning to seven Somalia where there is a reduction

:38:31. > :38:36.in the number of foreign troops and therefore insecurities, terror

:38:37. > :38:40.groups operating. Combined with the increase in famine situation in

:38:41. > :38:47.Somalia. If we look at the flip side of our day mitigating these risks,

:38:48. > :38:50.we are at the moment strongly encouraging people in Kenya to go to

:38:51. > :38:55.Somalia, which is a double edged sword. It is convenient politically

:38:56. > :38:59.to do so, but we need to ask ourselves morally if it's right.

:39:00. > :39:03.Pragmatically, if it is just going to make the problem more complex. We

:39:04. > :39:07.have a situation where people go to Somalia, realise there is no

:39:08. > :39:12.sustainable future, no livelihood, no dignity there and then return.

:39:13. > :39:18.Unfortunately, returning refugees no longer have staked as if they are

:39:19. > :39:22.Somalian. They need to begin again in the process of seeking asylum,

:39:23. > :39:24.which means they don't have access to food distribution and services

:39:25. > :39:30.they had when they were produced in Kenya. As a result of which we are

:39:31. > :39:37.seeing a 40% uptake in health care services, we provide 50% of it. That

:39:38. > :39:41.service demand is increasing by 40%. Because of unofficial returns, we

:39:42. > :39:48.think, but also because people are stockpiling, and it's understandable

:39:49. > :39:55.that if they moved to Kenya, to have basic medicines, paracetamol, to

:39:56. > :40:00.return with. My absolute fear is a repetition of the scenes I saw in

:40:01. > :40:04.2011 with people, women and children, walking down the dusty

:40:05. > :40:09.road, mothers having with their children on rude, returning the

:40:10. > :40:12.summer having been returned, whether voluntary or otherwise, so a

:40:13. > :40:16.situation where they have less access to services they did in 2011

:40:17. > :40:22.because they don't have refugee status. One child I saw in 2011 in

:40:23. > :40:26.Dadaab was a toddler who was crying because he was so weak he couldn't

:40:27. > :40:30.stand and didn't understand why his legs weren't working anymore. That

:40:31. > :40:35.scene is in danger of repeating itself if we don't take seriously

:40:36. > :40:42.what returns means in the midst of a food security crisis as well as

:40:43. > :40:45.insecurity in Somalia. Do you think the involvement in the return

:40:46. > :40:49.programme is consistent with its mandate, to provide international

:40:50. > :40:55.protection and seek permanent solutions for refugees? Well, I

:40:56. > :40:59.would say, not ready. I think the problem is they are operating in a

:41:00. > :41:05.political space which is limited. It is in a situation where... This is

:41:06. > :41:10.political, not humanitarian decision. This is something, it is

:41:11. > :41:16.not unique. This has happened all over the continent, it happens in

:41:17. > :41:22.Uganda and the Burundi refugees. I think the problem is that it is this

:41:23. > :41:27.sort of political pressure that pushes for what is called voluntary

:41:28. > :41:31.repatriations but is very rarely clearly voluntary on the part of

:41:32. > :41:35.most people. It pushes for the premature process to take place. It

:41:36. > :41:43.is politically expedient because there is a election, nothing Kenya,

:41:44. > :41:49.it need to do what it can do stand up to the government, to make sure

:41:50. > :41:53.it lives up to its mandate and it is clear in the 31 convention it has to

:41:54. > :42:00.be voluntary. I think without the capacity to provide the support on

:42:01. > :42:05.the other side of the border, it is just irresponsible. I think even

:42:06. > :42:10.more to the point, it is going to, in the medium to long-term, is going

:42:11. > :42:17.to lead to much, much more money that going to be needed to work with

:42:18. > :42:21.people, re-displacement is inefficient for people's coping

:42:22. > :42:25.mechanisms. If you displace a second time, each time you are displays,

:42:26. > :42:33.your capacity to cope and your capability goes down considerably.

:42:34. > :42:49.What ?110 million disbursed is 30% of the

:42:50. > :42:56.total appeal which is funded to 46% so it's distribution. I think there

:42:57. > :42:59.are donors making really large contributions but we need to

:43:00. > :43:06.encourage others to step up and that's important, with the

:43:07. > :43:11.conference is coming up, that they do so. In terms of ensuring returns

:43:12. > :43:17.are voluntarily I think this is a partnership between donors, NGO's

:43:18. > :43:24.and UN agencies, responsible for ensuring returns are safe and born

:43:25. > :43:29.today but equally NGO's have an obligation to provide basic human

:43:30. > :43:35.services that people deserve regardless of the state is whether

:43:36. > :43:41.they are asylum seekers refugees. We need to ensure we can continue to

:43:42. > :43:44.speak out both in Kenya and Somalia regarding the returns process. We

:43:45. > :43:51.have seen over 20,000 volunteer to return, 308,000 Somalis in total in

:43:52. > :43:56.Kenya, what we are concerned about is their future as well as for those

:43:57. > :44:00.going and what we don't want to see is not a process of core version but

:44:01. > :44:04.a process of strong encouragement which leaves them with little other

:44:05. > :44:15.option especially when we see the situation involving Somalia. At the

:44:16. > :44:21.world humanitarian summit the UK committed to centrality of

:44:22. > :44:25.protection where protection civilians from harm is an objective,

:44:26. > :44:34.do you believe the UK Government are delivering on this commitment in the

:44:35. > :44:38.case of Somali refugees in Kenya? It's a very big question because if

:44:39. > :44:43.we look at the refugee population it is not untypical, the vast majority

:44:44. > :44:47.are women and children. They have more specific needs, they are

:44:48. > :44:54.generally more vulnerable and they are in danger of being forgotten in

:44:55. > :44:59.the wider humanitarian response. So beyond pure protection needs of

:45:00. > :45:02.safety in camp settings it also access to other services which

:45:03. > :45:08.increases their vulnerability. So whether its food distribution or

:45:09. > :45:12.health care, regardless of gender or age those returning after they have

:45:13. > :45:16.left Kenya will not have refugee status. And that might be an easier

:45:17. > :45:22.situation for adult men but for women and children to lump them in

:45:23. > :45:26.that same group reduces their access to all services and therefore there

:45:27. > :45:30.is a risk of a leading to negative coping mechanisms which we have seen

:45:31. > :45:36.in other crises. The breakdown of the family unit, women and children

:45:37. > :45:39.not being admitted to even camp settings but to live in informal

:45:40. > :45:44.settlements where they are more likely to be exposed to abuse.

:45:45. > :45:48.Further more if they do return to Somalia as we have heard from the

:45:49. > :45:53.previous speaker the danger is that they will not be able to return to

:45:54. > :45:57.the homes they have fled from as they have been occupied and they

:45:58. > :46:01.cannot reclaim them. We need to ensure therefore that when we think

:46:02. > :46:11.about livelihood solutions and cash solutions, the programme funded by

:46:12. > :46:19.DFI D, focuses on women and children and away target them, they will not

:46:20. > :46:25.often be seen unless you choose to seen them and this is where we need

:46:26. > :46:31.to ensure in partnership with DFID there is a strong protection focus

:46:32. > :46:37.and I would commend the work of DFID that has been focusing on this in

:46:38. > :46:43.some detail. Should the UK Government be supporting the return

:46:44. > :46:53.programme and what might the most suitable alternative speed beside

:46:54. > :47:00.repatriations? I think it comes back that it should not exist and we are

:47:01. > :47:03.firefighting. But we need to understand the decisions which are

:47:04. > :47:10.being made right now have a real impact on the long-term and I think

:47:11. > :47:14.it comes back to the fact that repatriations is the only one of the

:47:15. > :47:19.three durable solutions which has been viable. Resettlement numbers

:47:20. > :47:23.are low and became even lower with the executive order President Trump

:47:24. > :47:29.and local integration is very unpopular. I return to my point I

:47:30. > :47:33.think we need to be far more creative in pushing governments to

:47:34. > :47:37.look at local integration. In effect, if you have had a Somali

:47:38. > :47:41.population living within your borders for well over a decade how

:47:42. > :47:45.inefficient to have them living in a camp were security concerns grow and

:47:46. > :47:49.all the different factors the previous panel spoke to you, all of

:47:50. > :47:55.these factors are incredibly inefficient. Not least the fact that

:47:56. > :47:58.they are not rights respecting of individual refugees. I think we need

:47:59. > :48:02.to be thinking more creatively and we need to find ways, and I think

:48:03. > :48:07.this is where the UK Government has a role to play, this needs to be a

:48:08. > :48:12.very political conversation around what does it mean to host large

:48:13. > :48:17.numbers of refugees and can there be ways that local integration can

:48:18. > :48:22.operate? I think there is a real danger we focus on the camps but

:48:23. > :48:27.actually off the radar tens of thousands, hundreds of thousands of

:48:28. > :48:32.refugees are finding their own durable solutions. But they are

:48:33. > :48:36.doing that despite the policy context and I think if we can

:48:37. > :48:40.realign our thinking from the grassroots up so we can find out

:48:41. > :48:45.what refugees and host communities want? Where are they looking for

:48:46. > :48:49.solutions? How are the managing to survive? We have heard a lot about

:48:50. > :48:55.Uganda as a success story and I would sound a real word of caution

:48:56. > :49:00.about that. Uganda, there are things going on there which are also

:49:01. > :49:05.concerning. Only about 0.1% of people in the largest camp actually

:49:06. > :49:11.have access to land and what they call settlements are still isolated

:49:12. > :49:14.areas of land, still the back to camps. We have to be careful how we

:49:15. > :49:21.talk about these things. The point is what we need to do is be building

:49:22. > :49:24.in these longer terms responses. Let us not assume Somalis will be able

:49:25. > :49:29.to go back to Somalia in the next year, maybe not in the next five

:49:30. > :49:35.years or ten years. We don't know that right now. But to keep it open

:49:36. > :49:39.as what has basically been as a permanent emergency is only going to

:49:40. > :49:55.be inefficient for everyone in the short and long term. To return

:49:56. > :50:04.can I just quickly asked, going back to your point about vulnerable

:50:05. > :50:09.people, children, women, possibly disabled refugees, do you think

:50:10. > :50:16.there should be special provision to ensure the security? I think in all

:50:17. > :50:21.crises there needs to be special provisions for women and children in

:50:22. > :50:25.particular and as an agency focusing particularly on gender specific

:50:26. > :50:30.issues it's something we call for. Typically firstly in every

:50:31. > :50:36.humanitarian response programming is underfunded and is often due to an

:50:37. > :50:41.earmarked funding going elsewhere from donors. We need to think about

:50:42. > :50:46.longer term funding for protection, not for one year but multi-year

:50:47. > :50:51.because then there are some predictability. I think the need to

:50:52. > :50:55.be safe spaces for women but also we need to think about psychosocial

:50:56. > :50:58.needs for children when we think about education in these situations.

:50:59. > :51:02.In terms of health care I think we already do a great deal in terms of

:51:03. > :51:13.four example are a field hospital has a special unit to treat

:51:14. > :51:17.malnutrition in children. I think on the previous point I would also say

:51:18. > :51:21.yes, local integration is essential and we need to encourage the Kenyan

:51:22. > :51:25.government with support from the UK to think about a comprehensive

:51:26. > :51:32.refugee response plan that is multi-year in focus and multi-year

:51:33. > :51:37.funded. We could say there is no ideal model, the Jordan compact than

:51:38. > :51:40.what is being done there, Uganda, but we are working towards

:51:41. > :51:45.recognition globally that reintegration is the durable

:51:46. > :51:50.solution we all know but have yet to capitalise on and recognise the

:51:51. > :51:54.benefits, both host communities and refugees. The second is of course

:51:55. > :51:59.what the UK can personally do and to this I look to the Home Office think

:52:00. > :52:02.about the numbers resettling in the UK. Of course we are not going to

:52:03. > :52:06.solve this crisis through resettlement but morally we should

:52:07. > :52:11.do more than we are doing. We were settled just over 5000 last year but

:52:12. > :52:18.only a were some alley and 39 South Sudanese. So the numbers are very

:52:19. > :52:24.small in relation to the crisis. Colin Firth proportion based

:52:25. > :52:31.it would be a great signal and also a moral argument to use when Kenya

:52:32. > :52:35.cites things like EU Turkey deal as a good reason why they should not

:52:36. > :52:43.take Somali refugees and should return them. It's a multifaceted

:52:44. > :52:47.solution, the last is the hardest, conflict is driving displacement,

:52:48. > :52:50.not just ban on. South Sudan does not have a field rain yet, it's

:52:51. > :52:53.driven by conflict yet the numbers driven by conflict yet the numbers

:52:54. > :52:58.displaced are equal to what Somalia has seen over the last 20 years in

:52:59. > :53:02.the space of a few years. We need to see solutions from the international

:53:03. > :53:11.community to solve conflict in East Africa, not just Syria which is of

:53:12. > :53:15.course equally tragic. Can I just add, I think there is a real danger

:53:16. > :53:20.that a particular group is overlooked which is young men. There

:53:21. > :53:23.is a real danger that you have a population of young men who are

:53:24. > :53:28.barely vulnerable both to being recruited whether by our shebab or

:53:29. > :53:37.other groups but also smugglers and I think it's important we keep them

:53:38. > :53:39.on our radar. Can I ask you to expand slightly on what you were

:53:40. > :53:42.saying about Uganda? When we were saying about Uganda? When we were

:53:43. > :53:47.there we were told what a wonderful solution it was, every refugee had a

:53:48. > :53:51.piece of land and they were free to integrate and get on with their

:53:52. > :53:58.lives. But you seemed to say that was not exactly the case? Yeah, I

:53:59. > :54:03.have been working with Sudanese refugees in Uganda since 2000 and

:54:04. > :54:07.I've seen an enormous change. There has been progress without a doubt

:54:08. > :54:11.and I don't want to belittle the extraordinary hospitality of the

:54:12. > :54:13.Ugandan government right now. The speed of displacement and

:54:14. > :54:19.willingness to accept people has been extraordinary. But there is a

:54:20. > :54:24.lot of rhetoric at the same time and we need to be cautious for two

:54:25. > :54:28.reasons, Uganda is only positive trajectory with its policy and that

:54:29. > :54:31.something civil society has been pushing for four years and there is

:54:32. > :54:40.a strong empirical basis on which this has happened. Partly related to

:54:41. > :54:48.research done in Uganda, that's all very positive. I think the

:54:49. > :54:50.willingness to bring refugees and the Ugandan government certainly has

:54:51. > :54:55.caught this vision of aligning caught this vision of aligning

:54:56. > :54:59.services for host and refugee communities but I think the problem

:55:00. > :55:04.is in practice there are still a bit of a problem around the fact they

:55:05. > :55:06.talk about local integration in the centre of an structure but

:55:07. > :55:10.settlements still remain fundamentally isolated pieces of

:55:11. > :55:15.land which were empty for a good reason before refugees were sent to

:55:16. > :55:17.live there. They still have relatively closed economies, they

:55:18. > :55:23.technically have freedom of movement but they have prohibitive factors

:55:24. > :55:28.around it, maybe you cannot afford to get to the market and technically

:55:29. > :55:32.you're also supposed to get permission as well. There are still

:55:33. > :55:36.restrictions, it's heading in the right direction but there is a

:55:37. > :55:39.danger Uganda suddenly becomes this perfect model with the idea that you

:55:40. > :55:45.become a supermodel because you're slightly less ugly than everyone

:55:46. > :55:49.else. There is a danger that it has two negative impacts, that we don't

:55:50. > :55:52.continue to hold the government of Uganda accountable for human rights

:55:53. > :55:57.abuses because this is a government which closed down its university for

:55:58. > :56:01.the two months at the end of last year. Incredibly tight restrictions

:56:02. > :56:05.on civil society in the country. And there is a danger it leads to the

:56:06. > :56:09.argument that everything is OK in Uganda so it does not need much

:56:10. > :56:15.support. Where is actually the situation on the west Nile right now

:56:16. > :56:19.is chronic. The area where most of the refugees are coming over the

:56:20. > :56:26.border is an area that is only itself recovering from conflict. A

:56:27. > :56:32.number of rebel groups operating. And they are still reintegrating

:56:33. > :56:37.ex-combatants, so they are still relatively marginalised and

:56:38. > :56:42.neglected within the context. So I think with Uganda what is absolutely

:56:43. > :56:46.crucial is civil society is engaged much more, that the local government

:56:47. > :56:50.is engaged much more and there is a real bringing together of the

:56:51. > :56:55.humanitarian and Helmand actors in making sure this sort of new

:56:56. > :56:59.emergency does not a festering emergency like the previous sedan

:57:00. > :57:05.crisis. Because a lot of those who had just come over the border were

:57:06. > :57:09.living in Uganda before. It needs to be nuanced and there has been some

:57:10. > :57:13.robust research done in Uganda but the research was done in a different

:57:14. > :57:18.camp environment, not up in West Nile and it was done with the

:57:19. > :57:24.government, not independently per se. This is being accepted with

:57:25. > :57:28.gospel when there is much more to the case than that which is a

:57:29. > :57:33.danger. That is very helpful and it is something we should not lose

:57:34. > :57:39.sight of after the election, whoever is on committee. Thank you for that.

:57:40. > :57:44.My question really is about the world humanitarian summit where

:57:45. > :57:48.donors made commitments to support durable solutions for the displaced,

:57:49. > :57:53.do you think there is evidence donors are delivering on these

:57:54. > :57:57.commitments for displaced persons in East Africa and what more do you

:57:58. > :58:00.think is needed? Do you feel the multi-year financing we have agreed

:58:01. > :58:05.is actually reaching down onto the ground?

:58:06. > :58:16.I would begin by saying the commitments with a funding there,

:58:17. > :58:23.the reality is it is very much not universally applied on the ground.

:58:24. > :58:28.So, one example is the funding for NGOs responding to the huge numbers.

:58:29. > :58:35.It is roughly three months long. It then has to be renewed. It is barely

:58:36. > :58:40.multi-month. This is something which needs to be looked at. In places

:58:41. > :58:46.like Dadaab, our funding is one year, rather than multi-year. This

:58:47. > :58:49.is a problem because it is hard to plan long-term vegetable solutions

:58:50. > :58:56.when you've only got single year funding. We equally realise that we

:58:57. > :59:05.have a duty to be more transparent and a friend, so we need to spell

:59:06. > :59:09.out at two donors a vision, as well as building adaptability to our

:59:10. > :59:13.programming. In Somalia, we might start out by saying we'll do one

:59:14. > :59:18.thing, but we'd like to build on the flexibility to move geographically,

:59:19. > :59:22.depending on the needs. That partnership is what is hoped-for out

:59:23. > :59:27.of the summit, and we still would like to see. The other side 's

:59:28. > :59:34.partnership between governments and donors, so government in the region

:59:35. > :59:39.around developing frameworks that was coming out of the two meetings

:59:40. > :59:44.in New York last year, but all building towards a global compact

:59:45. > :59:48.refugees, which we are expecting to see in 2018. There is no opportunity

:59:49. > :59:53.to take leadership in that role, there is an uncertainty over the

:59:54. > :59:58.alliance. In that space, they're considering its funding and also its

:59:59. > :00:01.investment in resources, how can help these countries think about

:00:02. > :00:05.multi-year planning per refugee response. That also from the policy

:00:06. > :00:09.side needs to be part of the solution. On the funding side, we

:00:10. > :00:15.need to see that translate the ground. In Syria we are seeing that,

:00:16. > :00:25.so it is possible, we just need to see it more in East Africa. And do

:00:26. > :00:30.you think an overreliance on repatriations, even when it's not

:00:31. > :00:35.really safe and secure to do so? Without a doubt. I think this is so

:00:36. > :00:38.much the problem. You would never put refugees into a camp in the

:00:39. > :00:45.first place if you thought they might stay. The whole, entire policy

:00:46. > :00:50.approach to refugees is predicated on repatriations, from the day they

:00:51. > :00:54.go into exile. And I think this means that the series decisions are

:00:55. > :01:00.taken along the way that all point to that end point. But given the

:01:01. > :01:06.and these conflicts that seem to and these conflicts that seem to

:01:07. > :01:10.either get temporarily resolved or just continue to fester, it is

:01:11. > :01:13.unrealistic. We need to have a massive paradigms shift in our

:01:14. > :01:18.thinking. We need to do everything we can to bring stability to the

:01:19. > :01:22.region and that should be a priority, but we should not make

:01:23. > :01:27.refugee protection contingent on that happening any time soon. I

:01:28. > :01:32.think if we stop thinking in that way, then it will make a big

:01:33. > :01:37.difference to the responses. It will be things like longer term funding,

:01:38. > :01:41.bringing those development axe in the beginning, it will be work and

:01:42. > :01:47.much more closely with those communities. This is ultimately how

:01:48. > :01:53.you capitalise on situations where there is no economic resources but

:01:54. > :01:58.a lot of the decisions are being a lot of the decisions are being

:01:59. > :02:02.taken that undermine that social capital, that exacerbate the low

:02:03. > :02:09.economic situation rather than the other way round. We touched on the

:02:10. > :02:13.EU Turkey deal. When either of you like to expand on that? Because do

:02:14. > :02:18.support from the whole international support from the whole international

:02:19. > :02:23.community to find a long-term, sustainable solution for Somalia

:02:24. > :02:32.refugees who contribute to Kenya's decision to close Dadaab? You think

:02:33. > :02:37.the EU Turkey deal actually has been helpful or not? The problem is,

:02:38. > :02:40.refugee protection is basically predicated on burden sharing. The

:02:41. > :02:46.problem is that with the so-called migration crisis in Europe, it blew

:02:47. > :02:50.apart the remnants of the myth of burden sharing. As a result of that,

:02:51. > :02:56.yes, a lot of money has been given, but at the end of the day, in terms

:02:57. > :03:01.of actually really sharing that burden, as we said, in terms of

:03:02. > :03:05.resettlement numbers or other aspects, it really hasn't stood up

:03:06. > :03:08.to scrutiny. I do think that was part of the equation. For the Kenyan

:03:09. > :03:12.government, it felt that had the moral of the ground in many

:03:13. > :03:17.respects. I don't think it was a coincidence that timing of the

:03:18. > :03:24.announcement to close Dadaab. It is a complex political engagement going

:03:25. > :03:28.on. I think the numbers are so small in Europe compared to what's going

:03:29. > :03:32.on in the ground that the difference in GDP is so enormous, it does feel

:03:33. > :03:37.very, very unfair. I think that until there is a bit of a

:03:38. > :03:43.realignment, that will be the case. It is definitely lowered these sort

:03:44. > :03:48.of legitimacy and negotiating power of a lot of Western governments, I'd

:03:49. > :03:53.say. It is exactly that, the numbers don't stack up. Europe was hosting a

:03:54. > :04:00.percent of refugees, less developed our 84%. By having the misfortune of

:04:01. > :04:04.neighbouring countries displays, that's not their problem. Not when

:04:05. > :04:08.they are seeing things like the turkey EU deal, which is lessening

:04:09. > :04:12.the burden on Europe and sending people back. Their question is,

:04:13. > :04:18.since we are already doing many times more than countries in Europe,

:04:19. > :04:22.why not send refugees back? That leads to broad changes in definition

:04:23. > :04:27.of what is a safe country to allow repatriations. That is being at a

:04:28. > :04:31.unilateral level, whether European countries declaring Afghanistan save

:04:32. > :04:36.or Kenya declarant Somalia say. It is not the reality on the ground.

:04:37. > :04:43.That is our fear and problem. It is also a cry for help, Celeste on but

:04:44. > :04:50.it simply as a morally blackmailing argument. -- so let's not simply.

:04:51. > :04:56.What is happening in Jordan and why can't we have the same? What funding

:04:57. > :05:04.what models can we offer to make it a sustainable solution, that help

:05:05. > :05:11.both Kenyans, 3 million who need help, as well as refugees. It we see

:05:12. > :05:16.it as an opportunity for moral guidance, we would be in a strong

:05:17. > :05:20.position to articulate what a modern plan looks like at country level.

:05:21. > :05:30.How do you think much progress if any has made on the alternative

:05:31. > :05:38.solutions? Other than the ones we talked about. The alternative to

:05:39. > :05:45.camps, you mentioned it earlier on. Yes, I think at Geneva level,

:05:46. > :05:50.there's enormous will and desire to implement this and to bring about

:05:51. > :05:54.change. I think the problem is it gets snarled up in national

:05:55. > :05:58.politics. Obviously it has to be implemented ballooning national

:05:59. > :06:04.policy framework. That is where it often falls apart, and the problem

:06:05. > :06:09.is, all of the the political space for foreigners to be within a

:06:10. > :06:14.country is contracting daily, and I think this is serious. That is what

:06:15. > :06:22.really stands against the sort of direction of travel that being so

:06:23. > :06:25.beautifully puts in some of the International declarations and

:06:26. > :06:29.documents. And so I think it is saying we need to have this

:06:30. > :06:35.political discussion on opening up the space, and seeing advantages of

:06:36. > :06:39.having other people from outside in your country on a longer-term basis.

:06:40. > :06:57.And I think that is absolutely crucial. You talk about Uganda. What

:06:58. > :07:03.about the campaign Kenya -- camp in Kenya? Have you got any thoughts? I

:07:04. > :07:08.think how we organise camps is one thing alongside the urban problem

:07:09. > :07:15.and the fact that the majority refugees around the world are in

:07:16. > :07:21.urban settings. The camp is finding, but it is about funding. The

:07:22. > :07:28.location, locating all Somalis in one place when the funding for

:07:29. > :07:32.non-Somali refugees response plan is critically underfunded, it is less

:07:33. > :07:38.than 10%. It is an issue because then you have an underfunded camp in

:07:39. > :07:43.an underfunded response, and you're concentrating the problem there. I

:07:44. > :07:48.think also it is still part of the same problem of, where is the

:07:49. > :07:52.durability of that solution? As I've said, South Sudan is driven by a

:07:53. > :07:55.critical conflict that we are seeing, where tempers and the

:07:56. > :08:01.population have now fled the country. The nature of political

:08:02. > :08:09.crises is that they are quite open-ended. -- 10% of the population

:08:10. > :08:14.have now fled. We need to think about Jubal solutions. It is an

:08:15. > :08:18.opportunity to read to Dadaab in a more effective way and maybe a

:08:19. > :08:26.campus not the way, but that is what I would say is the point. One final

:08:27. > :08:29.question. You mentioned about resettlement in the UK context, can

:08:30. > :08:36.you see a bit about what the situation is in the US were

:08:37. > :08:45.president from's approach? -- with President Trump's approach. The

:08:46. > :08:51.number has been halved and we are seeing the residue of last year's

:08:52. > :08:57.commitment finishing up and concerns about the next year, 2018, and what

:08:58. > :09:01.that means. The United States has been a leader on resettlement. They

:09:02. > :09:07.have operated a process for vetting resettle refugees, more thorough

:09:08. > :09:12.than any other checks don't get any of these are to enter other

:09:13. > :09:17.countries. It ensured both United States citizens and refugees can

:09:18. > :09:19.coexist safely. They have a progressive policy which we

:09:20. > :09:24.contribute to to employ refugees within the first 90 days. In 85% of

:09:25. > :09:29.cases they do, and they contribute to the airfare that brought them

:09:30. > :09:34.there, and they willingly do so to give back to the country that

:09:35. > :09:37.settled them. It is one of the most successful examples of large-scale

:09:38. > :09:42.resettlement, I spoke to local councils and the UK around what we

:09:43. > :09:46.can then there. We now work with the German government in partnership to

:09:47. > :09:49.bring some of the lessons in the US context there. President Trump's

:09:50. > :09:55.announcement to cut numbers so dramatically is really a blow for

:09:56. > :09:59.that 21.3 million refugee population. Only a fraction of whom

:10:00. > :10:03.qualified to reset amends, and an even smaller fraction get to go, and

:10:04. > :10:08.that has now the even smaller. What I would say is that when you said

:10:09. > :10:12.that against the contributions of other countries, it is time for

:10:13. > :10:17.Europe to step up and particularly the UK as a global humanitarian

:10:18. > :10:21.leader, but also as a global leader in resettlement. It is an

:10:22. > :10:26.opportunity waiting for UK leadership, so we hope they take up

:10:27. > :10:36.the comment meant that our target of refugees every year. Canny thank you

:10:37. > :10:41.for your evidence. That tracker can I. Our third evidence which will

:10:42. > :10:46.focus on the impact of the food crisis.

:10:47. > :10:54.Welcome, both of you. As per the previous two panels, we go straight

:10:55. > :11:01.to the questioning but please do introduce yourself when you first

:11:02. > :11:08.and a question. The owner. Good morning, thank you becoming today.

:11:09. > :11:16.My first question is, to what extent is the current food crisis likely to

:11:17. > :11:29.drive a new wave of displacement? Thank you very much for having ten

:11:30. > :11:44.-- us. Maybe I can just start with Somalia.

:11:45. > :11:48.Honestly it is well known about Somalia's existing caseload, but we

:11:49. > :11:53.are seen as crisis is driving a new wave of displacement and the number

:11:54. > :11:58.is staggering. It is over 500,000 since November. We are seeing very

:11:59. > :12:02.much people moving from the real areas into urban settings. Mainly

:12:03. > :12:06.because they've lost their livestock and crops and are going into areas

:12:07. > :12:12.where they can seek aid and assistance. Some will join existing

:12:13. > :12:16.settlements, others have said of new areas on the periphery of towns. I

:12:17. > :12:19.think is one of the key things we are concerned about is a lot of

:12:20. > :12:23.these people are sleeping out in the open, they don't have tents, summer

:12:24. > :12:28.are under trees, the rainy season is very shortly going to be upon us,

:12:29. > :12:37.and the need of shelter and police people to be given food and also

:12:38. > :12:41.different items -- for these people. The number being so fluid as it is,

:12:42. > :12:47.this was the UN figure that came out, it was the 13th of April, I saw

:12:48. > :12:53.it when my team yesterday, that figure which was 530,000 on the 12,

:12:54. > :13:03.it is now 590 9000. The numbers every day are increasing.

:13:04. > :13:12.South Sudan is slightly different, other previous speakers have alluded

:13:13. > :13:15.to the conflict there being the root of a lot of the issues so the

:13:16. > :13:19.displacement is often due to that rather than the food situation but

:13:20. > :13:24.when people are being asked about why they are leaving food is still a

:13:25. > :13:34.reason but it may not be the primary reason. It's a factor but not maybe

:13:35. > :13:38.as prominent in Somalia. In Nigeria and South Sudan they are not using

:13:39. > :13:42.the language of the new wave of displacement but more a recognition

:13:43. > :13:49.that displacement is a factor of an ongoing crisis. New displacement and

:13:50. > :13:51.read as pleasant as well. The majority of displacement are caused

:13:52. > :13:56.by the conflict with the food crisis by the conflict with the food crisis

:13:57. > :14:00.as a secondary. Also recognising it will continue to be unpredictable so

:14:01. > :14:03.the preparedness for new displacement in whatever form is a

:14:04. > :14:11.critical part of managing this crisis. We heard in the previous

:14:12. > :14:16.evidence session authorities are struggling with past waves of

:14:17. > :14:23.refugees from civil wars, what planning has there been for what you

:14:24. > :14:26.might call a new wave or a continuing wave of further refugees

:14:27. > :14:38.resulting from the current food crisis? On the hall, so sedan in

:14:39. > :14:42.particular there is a lack of capacity of the local authorities to

:14:43. > :14:48.prepare and manage multiple displacements but we are finding

:14:49. > :14:52.similar pattern is in Northern Nigeria clear the authorities are

:14:53. > :15:00.just overwhelmed and unable to cope and whilst they have capacity in our

:15:01. > :15:05.urban centres we cannot access the rule environments where a lot of the

:15:06. > :15:12.displacement is happening. There is a concern about lack of capacity to

:15:13. > :15:17.coordinate, to plan, and lack of capacity and resources for them to

:15:18. > :15:24.do it. And what you are saying is people are fending for themselves on

:15:25. > :15:31.the streets? Yeah, I think the level of vulnerability is very high and

:15:32. > :15:35.particularly, seeing the impact particularly with high levels of

:15:36. > :15:40.malnutrition particularly for children under five having a really

:15:41. > :15:44.detrimental on not just their status at the moment but on their life

:15:45. > :15:53.going forward and I think that's one of the key aspects we are trying to

:15:54. > :15:56.address. Thank you. Famine has been declared in Unity

:15:57. > :16:05.province in South Sudan, could you give us update perhaps? Yeah, so the

:16:06. > :16:14.famine was a localised declaration in two counties, I think since then

:16:15. > :16:18.there has been a massive scale up of response and it's happened in other

:16:19. > :16:23.countries in Somalia as well. But I think the thing we are often

:16:24. > :16:27.concerned about is there are a lot of other areas that might not have

:16:28. > :16:34.been declared in famine but that they are very much on the edge of

:16:35. > :16:37.that and very vulnerable and sometimes there are in analysis

:16:38. > :16:42.blindspots that we cannot get the data and we don't know what's going

:16:43. > :16:46.on. A lot of areas are the areas which need a lot of attention in

:16:47. > :16:54.terms of getting in the food quickly as we can in order to save as many

:16:55. > :16:57.lives as possible. Pitch trying to get the balance between that but

:16:58. > :17:01.also in knowledge food security is creeping into some of the urban

:17:02. > :17:07.areas so we were worried when we did a study recently to learn that a

:17:08. > :17:15.high proportion, almost 70-80% of the population were supporting food

:17:16. > :17:20.shortages and securities and frustrations with youth who are

:17:21. > :17:24.finding a lack of employment and men who were frustrated at their

:17:25. > :17:28.inability to provide for their families. Those growing tensions are

:17:29. > :17:34.coming as result of that lack of food and that's something we are

:17:35. > :17:42.conserved about. -- concerned about. We heard a figure of about 16

:17:43. > :17:46.million people on the brink of starvation, analysis says 22.9

:17:47. > :17:53.million currently face crisis levels of food insecurity, quite

:17:54. > :17:58.substantial differences, do we have up-to-date data because that's

:17:59. > :18:03.incredibly important when it comes to finding solutions. The figures

:18:04. > :18:07.are changing all the time and different agencies will use

:18:08. > :18:12.different methodologies to calculate the figures. At the time of the

:18:13. > :18:15.appeal as far as I understand they used the data available to them in

:18:16. > :18:22.terms of the areas and went with that particular figure. It might not

:18:23. > :18:26.necessarily be the same methodology which was that a broader range of

:18:27. > :18:33.vulnerabilities by the sounds a bit. So I think the key thing is it shows

:18:34. > :18:37.the vast scale of the numbers and how the situation is getting worse

:18:38. > :18:43.over time and the needs are very much outpacing our ability to

:18:44. > :18:49.respond in a lot of these contexts. Where are the food supplies coming

:18:50. > :18:53.from which are meeting these needs? He will be coming from a number of

:18:54. > :18:58.sources, for example for us we partner with the world food

:18:59. > :19:02.programme and a lot of us will be sub partners of UN agencies, getting

:19:03. > :19:08.money from the international community or from our own personal

:19:09. > :19:15.appeals to our supporters in terms of private funding. I think there

:19:16. > :19:19.are a range of sources. In the past we have heard the world food

:19:20. > :19:24.programme has been doing more to source food regionally where it is

:19:25. > :19:29.possible, where there is surplus, are surpluses at the moment they can

:19:30. > :19:36.source within the region or is it all coming from outside the region?

:19:37. > :19:42.I'm afraid he would not have that information but we could find it

:19:43. > :19:44.out. It would be interesting to know because it's an important method

:19:45. > :19:53.they have used to ensure local food markets are not distorted by

:19:54. > :19:59.large-scale imports, thank you. In your assessment where else is it

:20:00. > :20:06.likely famine might be declared? The next meetings of the workshops for

:20:07. > :20:11.South Sudan and Somalia are in the beginning of May and that's the

:20:12. > :20:19.forum, the initial ICP forum where they will look at the analysis. It's

:20:20. > :20:27.difficult to speculate of course before the actual data comes in, but

:20:28. > :20:32.our expectation is that if there is another area fallen into famine we

:20:33. > :20:38.would expect it to potentially be Somalia we are looking at. What is

:20:39. > :20:46.the impact of declaring something is a famine versus not declaring

:20:47. > :20:49.something that is a crisis is a famine? What is the difference in

:20:50. > :20:57.the international community response? The ICP, the way they

:20:58. > :21:01.define a famine is on three key indicators, food insecurity,

:21:02. > :21:18.prevalence of malnutrition and mortality rates. There is

:21:19. > :21:21.categorisation of 1-5. There are all sorts of challenges in collecting

:21:22. > :21:27.the data that we recognise lack of access to data, and also around the

:21:28. > :21:32.mortality indicator, that's the one debated a lot by the ICP at the

:21:33. > :21:36.moment particularly because at the point by which you get mentality

:21:37. > :21:41.data which reaches that indicator you are already in the midst of a

:21:42. > :21:45.famine so you are already late. By the time of famine is called we

:21:46. > :21:55.recognise we are already late and that's a shame, I missed

:21:56. > :22:00.opportunity. But one of the things we are extremely keen on is that the

:22:01. > :22:03.declaration of famine should be retained by the ICP, it should be

:22:04. > :22:07.evidence based on technical indicators because it's not a term

:22:08. > :22:12.which should be used freely, it needs to be tied to a set of

:22:13. > :22:16.circumstances. But the reality is when it does get called of course

:22:17. > :22:21.whilst we recognise it's too late it pushes it up the public agenda,

:22:22. > :22:25.public awareness. We have things like the appeal, changes in donor

:22:26. > :22:37.funding pattern is, a whole set of different discussions we can have

:22:38. > :22:39.once the declaration has been made. But it can be difficult to have

:22:40. > :22:44.beforehand. The system moves too slowly to declare a famine? I think

:22:45. > :22:48.that... Famine is such a loaded word that of course it comes with

:22:49. > :22:51.additional action once you get there. In reality all of us should

:22:52. > :22:58.be moving quicker when there is a risk of famine and particularly

:22:59. > :23:02.around El Nino climate pattern is, when we know there is a level of

:23:03. > :23:06.predictability and the level of warning that comes with it and even

:23:07. > :23:17.more so for the year which follows after. Action against hunger refers

:23:18. > :23:20.to the situation in South Sudan as a preventable hunger catastrophe, is

:23:21. > :23:26.that the same in all areas facing the food crisis? Much like our

:23:27. > :23:34.colleague from IRC are analysis is these crises are driven by conflict

:23:35. > :23:41.and they are then compounded by drought and poverty but the key

:23:42. > :23:48.driver is conflict. Which means that they are man-made and they are

:23:49. > :23:53.therefore preventable. Particularly that issue about early warning,

:23:54. > :23:56.early action, a lot of analysis after the 2011 drought said that if

:23:57. > :24:02.we want to prevent this happening again we need sustained investment

:24:03. > :24:07.over a period of time in order to prevent it happening and yet the

:24:08. > :24:13.response plans were underfunded between 2011-2016 and part of the

:24:14. > :24:22.reason for the crisis now is that he did not have as much early action as

:24:23. > :24:26.we could have done. Do you think better measures could

:24:27. > :24:36.have been put in place to mitigate the effects of the drought? When it

:24:37. > :24:39.comes to mitigation it hard to measure. We look back and say of

:24:40. > :24:44.course we as an agency always feel like we could have done more. A lot

:24:45. > :24:48.of us have been working in the area of resilience and trying to build

:24:49. > :24:53.back people's ability to cope with different shocks and stresses with

:24:54. > :24:57.its climate change or conflict. We have been there but when you are not

:24:58. > :25:04.in an emergency setting those types of fundings and programmes are hard

:25:05. > :25:08.to get resources for. DFID have been leading the charge on resilience,

:25:09. > :25:16.they have been a donor that has been rapid image support. But a lot of

:25:17. > :25:20.donors have not followed suit or the programmes have been quite small.

:25:21. > :25:25.Also sometimes you then get the shocks that come to communities that

:25:26. > :25:31.will erode some of their coping mechanisms. The work we do in

:25:32. > :25:37.resilience is we know we cannot get rid of that particular shock, not

:25:38. > :25:41.within our power. But we can try to build up communities abilities to

:25:42. > :25:46.try and better cope with it the next time it comes around. So I think the

:25:47. > :25:50.programmes we have got on the ground, we are seeing anecdotal

:25:51. > :25:53.evidence they have indeed increased community 's ability to cope but

:25:54. > :25:57.obviously the key thing I think we would say is as well as trying to

:25:58. > :26:01.work on the ground and save as many lives as possible we need to keep

:26:02. > :26:07.the long-term focus of carrying on doing those programmes into the

:26:08. > :26:12.coming year as well. Do you think the lessons of the drought in 2011,

:26:13. > :26:18.do you think lessons were learned and if so what lessons have been

:26:19. > :26:23.applied in the way this has been dealt with? There has been a lot of

:26:24. > :26:27.agonising and going through 2011 and what went well and what he could

:26:28. > :26:35.have done better. I think one of the interesting things which came out

:26:36. > :26:38.from 2011 was things around, people mentioned timing, the need to

:26:39. > :26:43.respond earlier and I think this response, people have said we have

:26:44. > :26:50.responded earlier. It might not still be early enough because 2011

:26:51. > :26:56.it was in May that the response started and this response started in

:26:57. > :27:03.February. There has been more analysis of the situation, trying to

:27:04. > :27:08.gain more expertise. And also a focus on cash programming, that was

:27:09. > :27:14.a big recommendation which came out, agencies needing to look at that not

:27:15. > :27:17.to see that it's a panacea for all the problems, it needs to be

:27:18. > :27:22.balanced with other interventions but it's something a lot of

:27:23. > :27:27.agencies, we have tried to look at cash for work, cash transfers,

:27:28. > :27:31.vouchers, enabling local economies to stay stimulated and people to

:27:32. > :27:35.have more control over different decisions. But the thing we would

:27:36. > :27:40.urge is that it's a bit too early to do a compare and contrast between

:27:41. > :27:44.now and 2011 and indeed the situations are very different,

:27:45. > :27:47.different factors at play. One is not much a blueprint that we can

:27:48. > :27:52.look to see what is now happened but the key thing would be for us to

:27:53. > :27:57.look as this response gains momentum that we do continue to learn the

:27:58. > :27:58.lessons. But there are also lessons we know we haven't learned I need to

:27:59. > :28:17.get better at. What a number beyond? 18. Sorry. Can

:28:18. > :28:32.you tell us what your assessment of the UK Government's responsible food

:28:33. > :28:38.crisis is? -- response to. The response plan is so woefully

:28:39. > :28:47.underfunded, so we know there is insufficient... Everything we've

:28:48. > :28:51.had, significant gaps in food assistance, all the basics are still

:28:52. > :28:58.issued. There is insufficient funding, definitely. However, we

:28:59. > :29:07.have had some positive examples. Of actions from David, which have been

:29:08. > :29:11.recognised by others. One is the IPC, this is a critical part of

:29:12. > :29:20.early warning for farming, and they've done their mid-term review,

:29:21. > :29:26.which is a good thing. Funding research on nutrition early warning

:29:27. > :29:32.has also been positive. We've also had some good examples against

:29:33. > :29:37.hunger, in northern Nigeria and Somalia about them enabling us to

:29:38. > :29:41.reprogram existing grounds in response to the crisis, which is

:29:42. > :29:46.also very positive, quick decision-making. It has increased

:29:47. > :29:50.funds. Andrey pivoting those programmes to address the crisis.

:29:51. > :29:57.All those things have been positive, but Sarah mentions them as a

:29:58. > :30:03.champion, which we believe is the way to make the biggest difference.

:30:04. > :30:08.These crises are long time coming and a long time recovering, and

:30:09. > :30:13.resilience is critical. And champion cash has been positive. I think,

:30:14. > :30:17.overall, insufficient response by the whole international humility,

:30:18. > :30:23.but were some very positive examples from our experiences. Is there any

:30:24. > :30:30.one thing you think we could do better? And would make a difference?

:30:31. > :30:35.Yes. Our analysis is that conflict is the biggest driver, so actually

:30:36. > :30:41.solving the conflict, increasing efforts on securing a peace process

:30:42. > :30:48.is absolutely critical for us. The second one is access, we are

:30:49. > :30:53.affected to support those, it is hindered by a lack of access to the

:30:54. > :30:58.populations that need our systems. That is common across all the

:30:59. > :31:03.context. Bureaucratic impediments, whether purposeful or not, I

:31:04. > :31:07.significant reality, they drain our resources. They prevent us from

:31:08. > :31:11.getting to the people who need help. Lack of respect for international

:31:12. > :31:17.humanitarian law by all actors involved is absolutely critical to

:31:18. > :31:21.us. Privatising projection as well would be the other... Like the panel

:31:22. > :31:26.before commented, the protection needs are massive. The lasting

:31:27. > :31:32.impacts of lack of protection for generations to come significant as

:31:33. > :31:36.well. If I could add, just to reiterate, the UK came out very

:31:37. > :31:40.quickly in terms of leading the charge to get an international

:31:41. > :31:45.response, not another thing we been appreciative of. One of the key

:31:46. > :31:50.things we ask of the UK but the whole social committee is the

:31:51. > :31:53.transparency of the funding and the quick dispersal of funds to get on

:31:54. > :31:58.the ground as quick as possible so we can scale up. We have been able

:31:59. > :32:03.to scale massively of the funding, but there is is still a gap, as

:32:04. > :32:10.Juliet was saying. It is often that with the funding, I am speaking as a

:32:11. > :32:16.non-partner, so we're looking at it from two angles. The transparency is

:32:17. > :32:21.the money, new money being programmed from somewhere else?

:32:22. > :32:26.Where is it coming from? Who is going to? New partners, existing

:32:27. > :32:29.partners? The more that all donors can actually give that transparency

:32:30. > :32:35.will enable better planning, to see whether gaps are per sectors,

:32:36. > :32:40.because it will enable us to hurry better quad nation in terms of

:32:41. > :32:46.information. Often so many figures are flying well, it is hard to know

:32:47. > :32:51.what there is. For us to see what more we need, because Ranocchia more

:32:52. > :32:57.is coming. That is quite key. -- because we don't know more is

:32:58. > :32:59.coming. It is not about having stand-alone child protection

:33:00. > :33:06.programmes but mainstreaming and integrating these into all

:33:07. > :33:09.programmes, and seeing the vulnerabilities they have two

:33:10. > :33:14.displacements, food insecurity and complex, and the fact that those

:33:15. > :33:21.effects last ride through into hand-held means that is often an

:33:22. > :33:31.area woefully neglected -- into adult heard. Can I add one more? It

:33:32. > :33:36.was said by the previous panel. This issue of multi-year flexible

:33:37. > :33:40.funding. Because the reality is we know in most of these crises, we

:33:41. > :33:46.will need to be doing ongoing development, resilience programmes

:33:47. > :33:51.on top. We will need to be running both at any one time. The reality is

:33:52. > :33:56.our ability to plan and build partnerships, negotiate access will

:33:57. > :34:00.be better if we can do that over a multi-year period. Also, a bit like

:34:01. > :34:03.the example of the three month project, these are a significant

:34:04. > :34:08.drain on our management resources. If we are spending our time securing

:34:09. > :34:13.and reporting on short-term grounds, it means we aren't doing other

:34:14. > :34:17.things. We have some good examples, but we need more of those examples

:34:18. > :34:22.because we know the crisis is going to be on going beyond six, 12, 24

:34:23. > :34:26.months, and therefore we might as well be a realistic in setting up a

:34:27. > :34:35.robust structures and relationships and programmes that can help us deal

:34:36. > :34:42.with it. Audrey has said that so many people died and Somalia in 2011

:34:43. > :34:48.because of a slow response by the international community. How do you

:34:49. > :34:54.rate the response now compared with 2011 and what has changed images

:34:55. > :34:58.better? What has been a reason? I think when I was sitting in a

:34:59. > :35:02.presentation where they were looking at the lessons learned from 2011,

:35:03. > :35:06.they were talking about in order to build of the maximum response or the

:35:07. > :35:13.need when it is hires, which is around May in Somalia, maybe July in

:35:14. > :35:18.South Sudan, you needed therefore to have at least a two to four month

:35:19. > :35:22.window. In the case of Somalia, this time round, it does seem we are now

:35:23. > :35:26.within that window and being able to scale up. The key thing we are

:35:27. > :35:31.finding is that the needs continued to outpace us in terms of our

:35:32. > :35:35.ability to respond. It is particularly a problem this time

:35:36. > :35:41.around because the rainy season, which we been waiting for, now

:35:42. > :35:45.obviously is too late to impact the people in the current situation, but

:35:46. > :35:50.ever comes now and if it comes in a very heavy quantity, you have a very

:35:51. > :35:56.real risk of the outbreak of diseases, particularly diarrhoea,

:35:57. > :35:58.cholera, because you have a lot of animals, dead animals lying around,

:35:59. > :36:04.they have the risk of being drawn into the water. And where people are

:36:05. > :36:07.now, particularly with the displacement, moving into the

:36:08. > :36:13.confined areas, you've got very strong risks of disease, but if the

:36:14. > :36:21.rains don't come, you've also got problems for the crops. Those

:36:22. > :36:26.crucial things we are looking at, in terms of how they deal with it.

:36:27. > :36:30.Timing wise, it's gone an earlier, but they need is now to sustain that

:36:31. > :36:36.momentum and to not let up and to be able to get in and save it. But

:36:37. > :36:42.maintaining the longer term focus, making sure we don't have a pendulum

:36:43. > :36:46.swing just to that, but we tried to keep a broader perspective the

:36:47. > :36:53.multi-funding as well. What effect has the crisis had on school and

:36:54. > :37:02.education? I think it had a massive impact on children's schooling. In

:37:03. > :37:06.South Sudan, the figure was around about over 1 million children have

:37:07. > :37:13.lost access to education. Similar figures in Somalia. I'm sure you are

:37:14. > :37:18.aware, in terms of the safe environment as school can provide,

:37:19. > :37:23.not only in getting children feeding programmes and to help them in terms

:37:24. > :37:26.of the attrition, but also having that protective learning

:37:27. > :37:31.environment. When that is disrupted by then been put on the move, that

:37:32. > :37:35.brings with it a lot of challenges and a lot of other people have

:37:36. > :37:40.mentioned on the negative coping mechanisms, we worry that families

:37:41. > :37:45.will adopt once they are on the move and children's lives are disrupted,

:37:46. > :37:49.that could include recruitment two groups, child labour, early child

:37:50. > :37:54.marriage. These are all things we worry will increase as children of

:37:55. > :38:00.brought out of school. Do you think there's a lesson, strong lesson to

:38:01. > :38:03.be learned from the approach towards the importance of education in the

:38:04. > :38:09.Syrian refugee crisis, where we've seen a lot of effort put into that?

:38:10. > :38:14.And the approach in the east and central African residue crisis,

:38:15. > :38:19.where it seems education is given a very low priority by comparison?

:38:20. > :38:23.Absolutely. We've always been quite strong are pushing for the fact

:38:24. > :38:30.education should be considered in a mincer responses, in terms of the

:38:31. > :38:32.disruption it provides. Yes, drawing lessons learned from other

:38:33. > :38:37.responses, absolutely, and trying to make sure it is funded because that,

:38:38. > :38:41.as well as child protection, the two sectors that very much drop off the

:38:42. > :38:51.radar and have a low amount coming in. Can I thank you both for your

:38:52. > :38:57.evidence today? And to thank the previous two panels. As Parliament

:38:58. > :39:01.is dissolved next week, our hope is that we will ride prior to the

:39:02. > :39:06.dissolution based on the evidence we've had today, setting out the

:39:07. > :39:12.major concerns, both of other flu crisis and the broader displacement

:39:13. > :39:17.situation in Africa -- both of the food crisis. We will look to publish

:39:18. > :39:21.later prior to the dissolution. Thank you for your evidence, thank

:39:22. > :39:25.you the bean cue today order, order.