:00:00. > :00:15.Importantly, in the context of Article 27 what happens rarely
:00:16. > :00:21.perfect across. I was talking to the secretary, very good friend of mine
:00:22. > :00:25.20 months ago, talking about the issue of the citizens right and I
:00:26. > :00:29.spend what we wanted to do he explained that you should come to
:00:30. > :00:32.Austria and say that there is no body knows this in Austria. The
:00:33. > :00:41.bigger problem is getting the argument across. The week after the
:00:42. > :00:49.Monday after the Prime Minister announced the citizens rights
:00:50. > :00:54.policy, every single embassy, 26/27, not Ireland because it is a
:00:55. > :00:59.different policy, the 26th of the 27 published in a main newspaper in
:01:00. > :01:04.every capital what the policy was, extensive pieces on it and every
:01:05. > :01:08.ambassador was sent out to do into these obviously. To be honest the
:01:09. > :01:13.real issue getting the message across is at that level. We had to
:01:14. > :01:19.have the people understand, the people of Slovenia, the people of
:01:20. > :01:25.Hungary, the people of France the people of the north-east. The people
:01:26. > :01:30.of Wales. I'm carrying out negotiation on people pulling a half
:01:31. > :01:35.from the north-east but not with them. The truth here is that what we
:01:36. > :01:40.are trying to get is that point, successfully, looking not
:01:41. > :01:44.immediately because there is a stand-off in the initial response, a
:01:45. > :01:47.few days afterwards a view of those countries, most of those countries
:01:48. > :01:51.had a positive response and that is what I have to worry about, the
:01:52. > :01:59.clarity of what we have in the officer, we have a good offer. The
:02:00. > :02:01.discussion that we have heard within government around a transition
:02:02. > :02:07.agreement or implementation period, whatever you would like to call it
:02:08. > :02:12.has varied enormously. Between chancel talking about no cliff edge
:02:13. > :02:15.and therefore really raising the question of the single market and
:02:16. > :02:22.the customs union membership continuing, whereas others say
:02:23. > :02:27.others things, what you think we stand. We will find that if we leave
:02:28. > :02:31.aside the briefings which I cannot speak for we will look at in the
:02:32. > :02:36.public statements, it is very hard to put a cigarette paper between the
:02:37. > :02:39.Jazz on myself, on translation or in fermentation of the agreement. We
:02:40. > :02:45.discussed it at length come virtually weekly, since Christmas of
:02:46. > :02:52.last year. Similarly you will find on other issues, in terms of
:02:53. > :02:56.migration policy. We have said we have both said time and again,
:02:57. > :03:01.bringing back control of migration policy isn't the same slamming the
:03:02. > :03:05.door to the UK. We want to attract talent into British industry, and we
:03:06. > :03:15.don't want to see labour shortages in the UK economy, or part of it, in
:03:16. > :03:20.Northern Ireland for example. We must look past the briefing and what
:03:21. > :03:25.the official statements are. That is what the real policy is, not what
:03:26. > :03:31.you see some unnamed, unspecified beating from unknown people. We must
:03:32. > :03:35.move on. Baroness Brown. The government has very much made it
:03:36. > :03:39.clear from the beginning that home affairs and justice matters are
:03:40. > :03:45.matters that are of a high priority for agreement, and since the
:03:46. > :03:47.election has their been some movement in the approach to the
:03:48. > :03:53.European Court of Justice because for example the European arrest
:03:54. > :03:57.warrant is very hard to see how that could be maintained at the level it
:03:58. > :04:03.is now without the European Court being involved. Is that an area
:04:04. > :04:10.where you feel that there needs to be a bit more give and take, or a
:04:11. > :04:14.softer line up? You are right, justice is very important. This by
:04:15. > :04:22.Minister takes it very important, as do all, I would imagine. Let's take
:04:23. > :04:30.the European arrest warrant, a good example. Our view on appropriate
:04:31. > :04:35.jurisdiction is territorial. So, if we issue a European arrest warrant,
:04:36. > :04:39.if we had some analog after 2019 which I think we will have, or maybe
:04:40. > :04:47.after 2021 if that is when the transition runs out or whenever, if
:04:48. > :04:50.we have some analogue after the conclusion of negotiations and
:04:51. > :04:55.departure, then you would expect that within the European Union that
:04:56. > :05:00.to be subject to the appeal all the way up through the normal national
:05:01. > :05:07.courts, and from then to the ECJ inside the ECJ. If a Polish police
:05:08. > :05:12.force subjects a request for a British citizen in Britain, or
:05:13. > :05:16.someone can anyone in Britain are there that would go up to the
:05:17. > :05:19.British Supreme Court. There, we have similar arrangements with the
:05:20. > :05:24.United States, with extradition arrangements, which operate under
:05:25. > :05:28.each court system. You don't need to have extraterritorial reach for a
:05:29. > :05:34.court for it to work. You can have the same thing in data, let's
:05:35. > :05:41.imagine we have data applications. Then the mole asking a foreign state
:05:42. > :05:46.and an other states to you in pigeon batterer in -- asking a foreign
:05:47. > :05:50.state to impinge on the rise of being the jewel, then we have the
:05:51. > :05:55.courts to determine. We have taken evidence from lawyers that said if a
:05:56. > :06:01.European Court is not the final arbiter, nonetheless lawyers going
:06:02. > :06:05.into the UK courts would still wish to draw on the results of case law
:06:06. > :06:09.as coming out of the European law courts, and I wonder what your
:06:10. > :06:12.thoughts are. You like it is entirely up to the court. To the
:06:13. > :06:20.extent to which it take that on board. Now, it will be entirely up
:06:21. > :06:27.to the court, case-by-case. I should raise it, it's embarrassing, but I
:06:28. > :06:32.have been in court with such an issue related to government before,
:06:33. > :06:36.in which another court Bosman judgment, a Swiss court that time,
:06:37. > :06:41.was taken into account, no relationship, but just at that court
:06:42. > :06:44.had dealt with similar cases in this way, and I would expect British
:06:45. > :06:49.courts to look at European case law but not to be bound by it. It is not
:06:50. > :06:54.being bound by it is the issue, you're not bound by the decision of
:06:55. > :07:07.another court. Lady four can I wanted to ask a question. -- Lady
:07:08. > :07:12.Faulkner. You referred to Lord Boswell on that previous September
:07:13. > :07:16.discussion that was had relating to the intelligence and security, I
:07:17. > :07:23.recall, I maybe wrong, but let me put it on the table now in case we
:07:24. > :07:24.didn't mention at the but we also discussed parliamentary scrutiny
:07:25. > :07:30.committee weighed at trade talks happen in terms of interim as the
:07:31. > :07:34.trade talks commence, and continue, where you would go in without being
:07:35. > :07:37.a privy Counsellor, parliamentarians are allowed to go into the room,
:07:38. > :07:49.look at documents, see what is going on. That was the example. What I
:07:50. > :07:52.think, and I'm sure Mr Starmer is going to be great in scrutinising
:07:53. > :07:56.you come in Privy Council terms, but this committee has an important role
:07:57. > :08:00.in the scrutiny process, and I think what people want to get from Europe
:08:01. > :08:03.at the time was to have at least those kinds of arrangements, for the
:08:04. > :08:08.comments to speak for itself, but let me say to me to this committee I
:08:09. > :08:12.said 40 hours over this weekend getting to Estonia and back to speak
:08:13. > :08:16.for three and a half minutes, but in order for the United Kingdom to bree
:08:17. > :08:20.represented, because their committee and the body gets so the House of
:08:21. > :08:27.Lords is rather more with it in that regard. But can I also dart I would
:08:28. > :08:31.never disagree. I wonder whether you would be the right to a specifically
:08:32. > :08:36.on this was I had to say that when we did these arrangements, I think
:08:37. > :08:41.basically it was a private role in one of the departments where people
:08:42. > :08:47.could go and hear no phone rains and all of that, at the moment, frankly,
:08:48. > :08:52.I don't think that there is anything in this arrangement which is going
:08:53. > :09:00.to be private for that long. I think it is more a question of timing. So
:09:01. > :09:05.far, every publication that we have will hit the public domain at some
:09:06. > :09:09.point, so for example next week as I say if we put in some submissions to
:09:10. > :09:17.them, we will publish it. The day we put them in. Now, that may change
:09:18. > :09:21.when we get to the later done table mat yes, and at that point I would
:09:22. > :09:28.certainly look at that, absolutely, but at this stage there seems to be
:09:29. > :09:32.no useful point. Later on I suggest I will think and maybe write to you
:09:33. > :09:39.about it, but the levy forgets, nag me about it, but later on it may be
:09:40. > :09:48.different. -- don't let me forget. We find in the interim, if we do
:09:49. > :09:56.need to seize some documents I hope will keep the position. As you know,
:09:57. > :09:58.my committee, the financial affairs committee can interact with the
:09:59. > :10:02.financial services sector extensively. They are taking
:10:03. > :10:07.decisions by the end of this year, so waiting for a decision later on
:10:08. > :10:11.in negotiations as to whether there will be a transitional arrangement
:10:12. > :10:16.or not may very well, they may have made their minds up and gone if they
:10:17. > :10:21.need to go, in order to maintain passport and rights to work. Would
:10:22. > :10:26.you consider... Yellow actress deciding now. Indeed, some are, I
:10:27. > :10:32.hear that weekly. Would you consider besides whether it transitional
:10:33. > :10:35.implementation, this would you consider that allowing the EU 27
:10:36. > :10:38.that if you haven't made sufficient progress on the frame for a
:10:39. > :10:42.transitional dealer, how long it will last by the end of this year,
:10:43. > :10:47.and so on, perhaps contemplating that extension for one year? That is
:10:48. > :10:54.allowed under Article 50. For the negotiations to continue. The arrow
:10:55. > :10:57.only by unanimity. Yes, unanimity, but you keep talking about the will
:10:58. > :11:02.and bilateral talks with the Bwe are in negotiation. I had this
:11:03. > :11:07.conversation on Friday with the members of the national services,
:11:08. > :11:13.and the ideal outcome from their point of view, not just theirs,
:11:14. > :11:17.others do, but the ideal outcome from their broader view is that we
:11:18. > :11:24.get to the of decision with enough time left for them to carry out
:11:25. > :11:30.regulatory and physical changes that they need to. If we can we will, but
:11:31. > :11:36.we are in a negotiation, and any point of leverage, and there is
:11:37. > :11:39.goodwill, but it isn't infinite, any point of leverage, if we say, well
:11:40. > :11:45.we had to have this, that will become a point of leverage. So, we
:11:46. > :11:48.will seek to get that through. I said, we started off by explaining
:11:49. > :11:53.to our European colleagues that we thought it was to their advantage as
:11:54. > :11:58.well as ours in order to sort of them the incentive to do something
:11:59. > :12:03.about it. Some of them of course to see it is their advantage to wait
:12:04. > :12:10.because enough American banks in particular have said oh, we will
:12:11. > :12:14.wait until Paris, good luck to them. Of course, they encourage the other
:12:15. > :12:19.sides to hold back, say they want to do it. Yes, of course, we understand
:12:20. > :12:22.the value of transition. We have been through this in excruciating
:12:23. > :12:26.detail in terms of the effect of it done and we will do it as quickly as
:12:27. > :12:29.we can, but it is a negotiation and I cannot, and like any area of
:12:30. > :12:34.government yellow would say yes, I will do this or I will do that, I
:12:35. > :12:38.cannot, but I will say that we will make our best endeavour. There was a
:12:39. > :12:47.lot to be said for Paris by the way, but I think we need to move on. Are
:12:48. > :12:56.you biased, sir? LAUGHTER Now the important of devolution and
:12:57. > :12:59.the effect of Brexit. Thank you Chairman and thank you Secretary of
:13:00. > :13:01.State. The Welsh and Scottish Government in the sake of Mark
:13:02. > :13:08.Brayford and Michael Russell wrote to you on the 13th of June and it is
:13:09. > :13:13.a letter with an awful lot of issues contained within it and I know a lot
:13:14. > :13:19.of colleagues would like to quiz you a bit on it. Perhaps I can start the
:13:20. > :13:24.ball rolling with starting with general concerns in the letter, the
:13:25. > :13:26.general concern I suppose being what they viewed as a lack of
:13:27. > :13:32.consultation with the general lack of engagement on the part of your
:13:33. > :13:36.department with the devolved administrations, and the second
:13:37. > :13:42.general thing was really a call for reform on their part, how the JNC EU
:13:43. > :13:47.negotiations were going to work. I will if I could ask on that
:13:48. > :13:54.narrative issue for your comment? Firstly, in January this year, my
:13:55. > :13:58.department was created to July, one year ago, virtually, now, created,
:13:59. > :14:05.as in announced, took a bit of time to build it up. But in January of
:14:06. > :14:07.this year we have a JNC plenary to the ministerial committee, chaired
:14:08. > :14:14.by the Prime Minister, and then since then we have had for the few
:14:15. > :14:23.month running into the election we had three, I think, JM CEO Ed. --
:14:24. > :14:26.JNC meeting. I think the first one the Scottish Government presented
:14:27. > :14:32.its White Paper, presenting what they described as a compromised.
:14:33. > :14:35.This was a copper wires that current prius are -- requiring Scotland to
:14:36. > :14:38.have a completely separate manager to the single market. I think we
:14:39. > :14:45.could negotiate it tomorrow if it were wanted, but there are issues --
:14:46. > :14:48.interesting issues with the UK single market if it were such a
:14:49. > :14:53.thing. We need to divide issues where we did agree with them, and
:14:54. > :14:58.the next, or the second after that's JNC, we had a presentation of the
:14:59. > :15:14.Welsh proposal. Was in many ways much more
:15:15. > :15:20.practical. It was focus very clearly on employment in industry. We are
:15:21. > :15:29.possible, we looked to pick out of these documents issues which we
:15:30. > :15:37.could agree with, for example, the example of protection of employment
:15:38. > :15:43.law. I have said are not least for occasions and the Prime Minister on
:15:44. > :15:47.frequent occasions, there will be no reversal of that as a result of
:15:48. > :15:55.departure from the European Union. In the same period, the Scottish
:15:56. > :16:02.First Minister did everything possible to use that issue of Brexit
:16:03. > :16:17.as a motor for another independence referendum. I basically take issue
:16:18. > :16:24.with the thrust of Mike Russell. I think we have bent over backwards,
:16:25. > :16:33.not to the tool, there will be no veto, a working for the people of
:16:34. > :16:36.Scotland and Wales and in particular Northern Ireland, of which we have
:16:37. > :16:51.not been able to engage with for some time. Once again, when you took
:16:52. > :16:53.evidence in Cardiff and in Edinburgh, they were disturbing
:16:54. > :17:01.criticisms of things like getting agendas on time and I repeat to you
:17:02. > :17:09.that when you have battling parties, it is actually almost resetting that
:17:10. > :17:14.we in which we can bring people together or at again and I would ask
:17:15. > :17:23.you in a second if you would comment on that. To move on to a second
:17:24. > :17:35.point, that is a suggestion of developing common positions and
:17:36. > :17:39.devil part of that. I think devolution issues, if you take
:17:40. > :17:47.fishing for example, although it is a slightly different mechanism,
:17:48. > :17:52.telling everyone what has gone on after words, what would you comment
:17:53. > :17:59.on Internet as well as the common suggestion of that? As long as there
:18:00. > :18:10.is no contradiction between our aims. The serious fishing industries
:18:11. > :18:14.around the United Kingdom, some want to be able to fish and other waters,
:18:15. > :18:20.others just want restrictions on others coming into our water. There
:18:21. > :18:27.has to be a compromise between that. In ongoing negotiations in Europe
:18:28. > :18:36.with ongoing issues such as fishing, there is considerable consultation
:18:37. > :18:43.and has been over many years and I would expect that consultation to go
:18:44. > :18:45.on. When it goes to the ongoing relationship, we will have extensive
:18:46. > :19:05.discussions with them. Thank you. I must mention a interest has been
:19:06. > :19:14.in the Scottish parliament for the first eight years as an elected
:19:15. > :19:17.member. How do you think of the Scottish and Welsh common request
:19:18. > :19:26.that they should be more closely involved with negotiations? I will
:19:27. > :19:32.be as diplomatic as I can be. The truth is, we will take into account
:19:33. > :19:38.what they will have to see and worry also about the interests of the
:19:39. > :19:47.Scottish people and the Welsh people. We will talk also to
:19:48. > :19:56.industry and others in Scotland and Wales. When the Prime Minister came
:19:57. > :20:00.into office last year, the first place she went was Scotland.
:20:01. > :20:12.Northern Ireland was the first place I went. In the Republic of Ireland,
:20:13. > :20:15.all with the aim of protecting the interests of the component nations
:20:16. > :20:23.of the United Kingdom Honours level playing field as you could have, to
:20:24. > :20:28.make sure we do not accidentally art and industry in a particular area.
:20:29. > :20:37.It is more than just talking to them. He recently confirmed that the
:20:38. > :20:45.repeal bill subject to legislation subject to the void -- devolved --
:20:46. > :20:49.devolved legislators, what do you think would happen with that? I do
:20:50. > :20:54.not want to go down hypothetical routes. I would think we would get
:20:55. > :21:01.onto that early next year. Between knowing them, it is important to
:21:02. > :21:08.see, to bring the committee up to speed, the repeal bill will be
:21:09. > :21:17.published and there will be elements of it which are aimed at allowing
:21:18. > :21:21.the decommissioning of what powers remain within the devolved
:21:22. > :21:25.administration, which is in effect all the powers they currently have.
:21:26. > :21:31.What powers will be further devolved to them once we are out of Europe
:21:32. > :21:39.and what we need to have to have a United Kingdom level of decision. We
:21:40. > :21:50.need that school preservation of the United Kingdom single Market or
:21:51. > :21:54.comprising single international treaty agreements and that will
:21:55. > :22:08.happen over the course of the next six to nine months. Do you think the
:22:09. > :22:21.government is being sufficiently proactive in thinking up solutions
:22:22. > :22:26.with regard to Ireland? Let me divide the problems into two groups.
:22:27. > :22:35.Those relate to Northern Ireland and those that relate to the Republic.
:22:36. > :22:42.In Northern Ireland, the first one is the preservation of the peace
:22:43. > :22:53.process and the preservation of the Belfast agreement. One of the
:22:54. > :22:58.primary elements for the preservation of the visible border
:22:59. > :23:07.and whilst at the same time been able to maintain an external border
:23:08. > :23:12.of the European Union. A lot will be according to how we can operate a
:23:13. > :23:16.customs system and that could involve a variety of things, such as
:23:17. > :23:23.whether we use in trusted trader schemes, to allow people to go
:23:24. > :23:30.across the border without being stopped, of whether we can use
:23:31. > :23:38.pre-tagged containers, that sort of thing. That is one area where
:23:39. > :23:45.talking has started. That will slightly be changed by the new
:23:46. > :23:49.government elected in Ireland. I talked to the new secretary of state
:23:50. > :23:55.they are the other day and these discussions will continue. But these
:23:56. > :24:00.are ongoing relationships. We are nowhere near any solution. But also
:24:01. > :24:09.what happens to Ireland, the Republic of Ireland, exports? A lot
:24:10. > :24:12.of them come to us but also go through the rest of the United
:24:13. > :24:22.Kingdom to the continent. How do we maintain that? We are giving thought
:24:23. > :24:27.to that as well. We are not nearer resolution on this because we have
:24:28. > :24:32.had no Northern Ireland executive to help deal with it. There has also
:24:33. > :24:39.been a change of government in the South. We will not actually have the
:24:40. > :24:48.solution to the Ireland issues probably until near the end of the
:24:49. > :24:52.Brexit negotiations. If we have a comprehensive free trade agreement,
:24:53. > :25:02.we could get away with later customs agreements than we otherwise would.
:25:03. > :25:09.It came a piece of legislation would be the rules of origin. We are
:25:10. > :25:19.making this speed, all I can see. It is not as fast as perhaps I would
:25:20. > :25:28.like. As far as the government agreement with the DUP what steps
:25:29. > :25:37.are you taking to make sure the voice of the nationalist community
:25:38. > :25:50.is being here? I tried to talk to both sides. The confidences apply
:25:51. > :25:57.but does not really impinge on our policy because both sides of the
:25:58. > :26:02.argument, of the executive in Northern Ireland, want to see that
:26:03. > :26:10.open border maintained, so I do not think there is any controversy
:26:11. > :26:16.there. I do not want to leap around in groups, because it is a very
:26:17. > :26:21.sensitive area probably try and sort out the Northern Ireland executive,
:26:22. > :26:25.we get through that, I will try and make arrangements to speak to both
:26:26. > :26:31.the major components of the executive. Could you give is another
:26:32. > :26:41.ten minutes to finish off the questions? The question on
:26:42. > :26:47.citizenship are important. Citizens rights. I notice something of key
:26:48. > :26:53.interest to yourself and to millions of people in this country and in the
:26:54. > :26:59.European Union who are currently held in suspense were awaiting the
:27:00. > :27:06.answers. The Justice committee recommended that unilateral
:27:07. > :27:10.recommendation of confirming European Union citizens rates within
:27:11. > :27:18.this country on the basis that its primary responsibility was for
:27:19. > :27:25.British citizens within the European Union. Many felt that was not
:27:26. > :27:29.helpful. There are reports today of how things are softening in the
:27:30. > :27:33.restriction and duration of it, perhaps you could enlighten as
:27:34. > :27:39.Mortimer. I guess my question is simply this, can you tell us where
:27:40. > :27:45.we are with it, what things remain and what is the timetable for
:27:46. > :27:50.getting the? How long will the suspense B is the question many
:27:51. > :27:55.people love? We made a sustained effort to get that message across to
:27:56. > :28:07.the people of the countries involved. For two reasons, one to
:28:08. > :28:14.influence the government, but also because it impacted on people here.
:28:15. > :28:27.In terms of the areas of difference, the first area we do not see the
:28:28. > :28:33.European courts to be involved. It would be unique for them to be
:28:34. > :28:37.involved in extraterritorial jurisdiction rather than on this
:28:38. > :28:43.rather limited operations in Ukraine. We do not see any need and
:28:44. > :28:47.many other member states do not see a need for it, but what they do want
:28:48. > :28:53.is some guarantee that it is going to be sustained, that the rates
:28:54. > :29:04.within the European Union will be sustained. We understand that and it
:29:05. > :29:14.will be an act of Parliament. That will be enforced by the British
:29:15. > :29:19.courts. But it will also be backed up by the treaty, so it will be
:29:20. > :29:29.subject to international and European law in maintaining the
:29:30. > :29:34.rates, so that is where we are. He vast proportion of the people did
:29:35. > :29:42.not see a problem with the European Court issue. We want to give them
:29:43. > :29:43.confidence that we will get past that hurdle. That is the
:29:44. > :29:53.expectation. I could see our citizens are at the
:29:54. > :29:58.behest of the Europeans on this bit and do not believe they will reverse
:29:59. > :30:02.its either and I do believe the need to give everyone confidence. In
:30:03. > :30:09.terms of the actual rights, we addressed that, there is a lot of
:30:10. > :30:14.real if dues and a lot of mythology. When you hear about people being
:30:15. > :30:17.deported which turned out to be security issue, so we try to deal
:30:18. > :30:25.with the worries and one of them was the issue of people thinking somehow
:30:26. > :30:29.we would treat European citizens in the UK are second-class citizens in
:30:30. > :30:35.some way. What we are trying to do is make this as close to British
:30:36. > :30:41.citizenship without the general election vote in every other
:30:42. > :30:44.respect, in terms of employment rights, economic rights, welfare
:30:45. > :30:51.rights, health rights, education rights. Pension rights, all of these
:30:52. > :30:57.will be the same. That is what we set out to do but there is one
:30:58. > :31:01.differential which is the question of the ability to bring the family
:31:02. > :31:06.members from another country, that is the difference. At the moment we
:31:07. > :31:11.do not have that right for British citizens as we agonised over this
:31:12. > :31:18.and thought it would not be right to give 3 million people write British
:31:19. > :31:23.citizens have not got. And they would not in Australia America or
:31:24. > :31:30.somewhere. That is one of the areas of tension. The other one which we
:31:31. > :31:36.have left open is exactly when the date falls. What we tried to do is
:31:37. > :31:44.to say whatever it is it will not be before the accession date, the
:31:45. > :31:48.Article 50 date. Because that gave people nine months or so after the
:31:49. > :31:56.referendum results will be with known it was coming. We did not want
:31:57. > :32:01.to say to anybody that had come here in good faith expecting their rights
:32:02. > :32:08.to be preserved to lose the fundamental main rights. Where it
:32:09. > :32:12.ends up, it will not be any earlier than that not later than the
:32:13. > :32:16.departure date but where it ends up is up for discussion. We do not want
:32:17. > :32:22.to give a date so far in the future that will attract people to come
:32:23. > :32:26.here for welfare tourism. We try to be as fair as possible, we tried to
:32:27. > :32:33.do it in such a way that does not lead to other misunderstandings, it
:32:34. > :32:44.has, even so. We are trying to avoid that. We will be discussing that
:32:45. > :32:49.next week. I shared this committee that created
:32:50. > :32:55.the report on acquired rates of EU citizens. I worked on it. It sounds
:32:56. > :33:00.to me as though this issue of the red line is one you to order the
:33:01. > :33:04.European Court of Justice, that it is a red line for the Government and
:33:05. > :33:07.you hold that view, even if others in your own Cabinet take a different
:33:08. > :33:10.view. It seems unnecessary to be any
:33:11. > :33:15.different. I wanted to point out areas it may
:33:16. > :33:20.make a difference. There are people who may be listening who are living
:33:21. > :33:24.in Spain or somewhere you might to hear with issues arise which they
:33:25. > :33:29.take through to Spanish courts to do with their rights, you make it clear
:33:30. > :33:34.to them the Spanish courts or the Polish courts are the only recourse
:33:35. > :33:39.and they will not be an overarching court which deals with supranational
:33:40. > :33:46.issues such as the right they feel they have acquired.
:33:47. > :33:49.That decision is for Spain and the European Union itself. We think our
:33:50. > :33:53.Supreme Court is probably good for that purpose.
:33:54. > :33:57.You're seeing our Supreme Court is fine for Europeans living here but
:33:58. > :34:05.you are basically saying to British people abroad, and in the same way
:34:06. > :34:10.the court of Spain or OK to deal with you and Italy and Poland, that
:34:11. > :34:16.is the message coming today. If I lived in the country I accept
:34:17. > :34:23.the rule of law in that country. One of the things you said an
:34:24. > :34:26.answering was if on the issue of the Euro warrant, it was basically
:34:27. > :34:32.territorial and should not be European Court of Justice take a
:34:33. > :34:37.different view, and you said there is nothing wrong with people
:34:38. > :34:42.invoking law from other jurisdictions. Our courts... They do
:34:43. > :34:46.that anyway. That is not right. We do it with regard to common law
:34:47. > :34:54.matters from other courts, in relation to European matters when we
:34:55. > :35:01.were in the year but not -- we do not for people in Britain of
:35:02. > :35:10.Tanzania or the law of China -- invoke the law.
:35:11. > :35:15.You will find it very rare our courts will do anything, but the
:35:16. > :35:19.question being raised, the point of European dipping chords as there is
:35:20. > :35:24.an anxiety that if we are going to be travelling, parallel lines and
:35:25. > :35:27.trading with Europe and do things in the reciprocal basis we should be
:35:28. > :35:33.travelling in the same direction on these issues to do with law, our law
:35:34. > :35:42.should work in hand sweat developed in parallel lines. You agree or not?
:35:43. > :35:46.I think to a large extent most of western law developed in parallel
:35:47. > :35:53.lines but not the same lines. The point of the referendum was it was a
:35:54. > :35:56.decision of control, of control of laws, control the borders, control
:35:57. > :36:11.of money, those were the three big issues that dominated. That is what
:36:12. > :36:15.I have to deliver. Not giving control to another legislative and
:36:16. > :36:19.another judicial authority. I want to press you on this because
:36:20. > :36:27.we have been the evidence on a number of matters to do with law and
:36:28. > :36:33.one of the great things are across Europe which have enhanced our
:36:34. > :36:36.world, and you do is to world civilisation, one of the great
:36:37. > :36:42.civilising forces has been we actually have a reciprocal
:36:43. > :36:47.fundamental principle and how we deal with matters of law and it has
:36:48. > :36:51.been developed in a very impressive way which is envied by other parts
:36:52. > :36:55.of the world. One of the things that happens is if a British person is
:36:56. > :37:01.married to an Italian and they divorced and have children and the
:37:02. > :37:06.British person is one thing, the mother of the children who wants her
:37:07. > :37:12.tell your husband to pay for the maintenance of the children and he
:37:13. > :37:19.is reluctant to do so, she can get an order in the courts here and the
:37:20. > :37:24.order will be enforced in Italy. Because of this reciprocal
:37:25. > :37:29.arrangements we have around enforcement. You cannot get back to
:37:30. > :37:35.work in China or other places and it is because of the arrangements
:37:36. > :37:40.developed over 40 years. In the new arrangements and negotiations has,
:37:41. > :37:44.well you have that sort of thing in mind?
:37:45. > :37:49.That is not quite the same. It is all to do the same sort of thing.
:37:50. > :37:55.For a lawyer you are being very vague.
:37:56. > :37:59.If you want to do things across borders and have trading
:38:00. > :38:03.arrangements across borders, manages across borders and you want to have
:38:04. > :38:06.law operating across those borders you end up having to have
:38:07. > :38:10.overarching supranational courts and that is the bit of that that was
:38:11. > :38:15.never discussed in the referendum and the piece that is missing in
:38:16. > :38:20.much of what is being discussed now. If the ordinary people of Britain
:38:21. > :38:24.realised some of this and enforcement of orders will not be
:38:25. > :38:29.taking place they might actually be thinking if only I had no one that I
:38:30. > :38:35.might have reached a very different decision in how I voted. I do not
:38:36. > :38:40.accept your premise. The simple truth is the effective system of
:38:41. > :38:45.judicial cooperation is perfectly achievable.
:38:46. > :38:49.So what will you do with trading arrangements were you happy trading
:38:50. > :38:53.arrangement with someone in Germany and that German company goes bust
:38:54. > :38:57.and you want to get your compensation? We have arrangements
:38:58. > :39:02.to make that possible currently and it is through the overarching
:39:03. > :39:09.principles and overarching court. What would you do if the same thing
:39:10. > :39:12.happened in New Zealand or America? Sometimes, as your colleague says,
:39:13. > :39:19.you are told to go whistle. That is what happens. This is our Foreign
:39:20. > :39:28.Secretary. I'm afraid you are making enormous
:39:29. > :39:32.generalisations. I work in international trade and on many
:39:33. > :39:37.occasion had to enforce judgments across other judicial areas and it
:39:38. > :39:43.is perfectly possible all the time. It is all other than the EU is. I
:39:44. > :39:47.suggest the enforcement arrangements across Europe have in fact, with
:39:48. > :39:52.great success and lawyers in Britain are very anxious about what will
:39:53. > :39:55.happen with those enforcement procedures.
:39:56. > :40:02.We can do this without subjecting ourselves to foreign courts.
:40:03. > :40:09.Can I pick up on the point that began this Salah said of questions
:40:10. > :40:14.about the disappointment with the proposal on the rights of EU
:40:15. > :40:17.citizens and ask two questions, the first one is the one about what
:40:18. > :40:24.impact do you think this will have on staffing in the NHS, that is one
:40:25. > :40:28.of the very silly questions. The second, and this may be a topic we
:40:29. > :40:33.may be looking at, is do you consider it will be easy to sort out
:40:34. > :40:39.reciprocal health arrangements for citizens in the EU and vice versa?
:40:40. > :40:46.And adding to that, you may be aware we have been contacted by a number
:40:47. > :40:58.of UK citizens living in Europe who said why are you willing to meet?
:40:59. > :41:01.Do I think it will be easy? I will never see anything is easy in this
:41:02. > :41:08.exercise but before I come back to the question on the NHS, we said in
:41:09. > :41:12.our paper on citizens' rights we will seek to maintain reciprocal
:41:13. > :41:20.health treatment and to try to either maintain or creates an
:41:21. > :41:28.arrangement. That is quite explicit. On staffing, the difficulty here is
:41:29. > :41:36.there are a whole series of issues that will affect whether people come
:41:37. > :41:39.to work in the UK. Bluntly, after the referendum there were some
:41:40. > :41:44.pretty unpleasant behaviour by some British citizens, I am ashamed to
:41:45. > :41:53.say. Which the Government was very fierce about, and so it should be.
:41:54. > :41:59.The pound has an effect, the value of the pound, right through to, with
:42:00. > :42:02.nurses, there has been a new and rigorous language standard put in
:42:03. > :42:11.place which may have been too rigorous, though that is not for me
:42:12. > :42:17.to say. These have all had effects. The aim is to bring back control of
:42:18. > :42:22.migration to the UK, not to slam the door shut. This country has had very
:42:23. > :42:29.large numbers of European and other countries' migrants come here, they
:42:30. > :42:35.do a very good job and an enormous value to society and in particular
:42:36. > :42:40.to the NHS but also social care homes and other industries which we
:42:41. > :42:52.rely on them and they should not see what I do in at stopping that, it is
:42:53. > :42:59.simply aimed at managing it. May I ask you, Minister, how many
:43:00. > :43:04.women are on the negotiating team? The photo in the Times what a
:43:05. > :43:12.disgrace. I can't remember. Are there any?
:43:13. > :43:19.Thank you very much indeed. You spent rather more claim that I think
:43:20. > :43:23.you had hoped. It is a sign of the interest the committee takes in the
:43:24. > :43:26.subject and we greatly look forward to our next hearing and discussion
:43:27. > :43:55.with you. Thank you very much indeed.
:43:56. > :44:01.With the Minister agree, like me, I have been very wary during the
:44:02. > :44:06.Brexit process to committing the Government to something that may
:44:07. > :44:12.adversely impact the industry? Essay that on a very positive day for my
:44:13. > :44:16.constituents. There is no wish to do that either side of the house. There
:44:17. > :44:26.is a general agreement on both sides of the house this must be a measure
:44:27. > :44:27.which acts both in the interests of consumers but also in