:00:29. > :00:34.Mary McArdle. Once jailed for murder, now promoted to the
:00:34. > :00:39.corridors of power. When I heard she had got the post of special
:00:39. > :00:45.adviser to the culture minister, I felt physically sick. She has never
:00:45. > :00:51.once attempted to explain to our family what happened.
:00:51. > :00:57.Once again, awkward questions about the past. Should Mary McArdle not
:00:57. > :01:03.have co-operated with VHE team when they were looking at this?
:01:03. > :01:13.comment, OK Julian? Some people want the past to go
:01:13. > :01:27.
:01:27. > :01:31.away but this has brought it up. This is no ordinary store room.
:01:31. > :01:38.Death is recorded on every shelf. Each file contains grimmer details
:01:38. > :01:41.of lives cut short. I am in a warehouse used by the historical
:01:41. > :01:49.enquiries team. The detective unit which is re-examining three decades
:01:49. > :01:55.of killings from the troubles. Usually, details of cases stay
:01:55. > :01:59.hidden away, like the grief of the bereaved. Sometimes both can be
:01:59. > :02:09.propelled back into the public eye. As in the case of two women named
:02:09. > :02:10.
:02:10. > :02:15.Mary. In 1984, Mary Travers was 23, a teacher, not long qualified. She
:02:15. > :02:21.was the daughter of Catholic magistrate Tom Travers, he refused
:02:21. > :02:27.to have a bodyguard at the time when the judiciary were IRA targets.
:02:27. > :02:32.Mary McCardle was a committed IRA volunteer. She was 18 in April 1984,
:02:32. > :02:40.when, one Sunday, she was part of a gang dispatched on a murder mission
:02:40. > :02:47.to South Belfast. Our house was only a couple of hundred yards away.
:02:47. > :02:51.This is an Ann Travers, a family friend. -- and a family friend. She
:02:51. > :02:56.is showing me the route Mary took home from church with her parents.
:02:56. > :03:01.The sun was shining and it was a beautiful warm spring day. Mum
:03:01. > :03:08.turned to Dad and said, doesn't Mary look lovely? Mary turned
:03:08. > :03:15.around and said, delighted mum? She held up the collar of her blouse
:03:15. > :03:20.and with that, the shooting started. Mary Travers was the first to be
:03:20. > :03:30.hit in an ambush by two gunmen. was shot in the back and fell down
:03:30. > :03:30.
:03:30. > :03:38.into mum's arms. Mum fell to the ground. The gunman stood over dad
:03:38. > :03:46.and started to shoot him. The other the man stood over my mum and
:03:46. > :03:52.attempted to shoot her as well. The bollards jammed in the gun.
:03:52. > :03:57.-- bullets. Meanwhile, Mary McCardle was
:03:57. > :04:01.walking a dog near by, pretending to be an innocent bystander. I saw
:04:01. > :04:06.Tom first and he was clearly in agony. He said, why did they do
:04:06. > :04:09.this? When I got to Mary, I was fairly certain nothing could be
:04:09. > :04:19.done for her. I remember there was blood coming out of her mouth and
:04:19. > :04:20.
:04:20. > :04:23.she was quite still. The gunmen fled, run be doing with
:04:23. > :04:28.Mary McCardle, whose job was to dispose of the weapons. She hid
:04:28. > :04:32.them in surgical stockings beneath her skirt but the handover was
:04:32. > :04:34.witnessed and the police were alerted. Meanwhile, news of the
:04:34. > :04:44.attack reached the other travellers' children who ran to the
:04:44. > :04:47.
:04:47. > :04:52.scene. I saw Muammar, leaning over that. -- Mum, leaning over Dad. She
:04:52. > :04:58.was saying to someone, please help my poor husband. Mary was lying
:04:58. > :05:05.over there and gurgling. She was not moving.
:05:05. > :05:08.Mary McArdle hurried away as the emergency services arrived.
:05:08. > :05:10.turned around, there was an ambulance there and I saw my
:05:10. > :05:15.brother Paul sitting in it with Mary.
:05:15. > :05:19.I am pretty sure I was there when she took her last breath. I looked
:05:19. > :05:26.at my sister and I didn't really recognise her. The life had gone
:05:26. > :05:30.from her body. I had a greater feeling of a presence in the
:05:30. > :05:40.ambulance but once the door opened at the Ulster Hospital, I felt that
:05:40. > :05:46.she had left. Mary McCardle was arrested just 300
:05:46. > :05:52.metres from the scene by a patrol alerted to the shooting. The guns
:05:52. > :05:57.were discovered as she was taken in for questioning.
:05:57. > :06:04.We found two revolvers. These revolvers, we have established, had
:06:04. > :06:09.been used in a number of murders in and around the Belfast area.
:06:09. > :06:14.The two gunmen escaped and during its 33 interviews, Mary McArdle
:06:14. > :06:19.maintained her silence. Mary Travers was pronounced dead upon
:06:19. > :06:26.reaching hospital. She was just a great sister. She
:06:26. > :06:32.was such a lovely, lovely person. Every time I come past here it is
:06:32. > :06:39.really hard and I always think of Mary. I always remember it, you
:06:39. > :06:44.know, I always remember... The whole thing. Poor Mary, just lying
:06:44. > :06:53.there on heroin. There was nothing that anybody could do for her. --
:06:53. > :07:03.on her own. Next morning, Mary Travers' class
:07:03. > :07:04.
:07:04. > :07:09.sank a him she had taught them. -- sang a hymn.
:07:09. > :07:16.It is a tragic event. Us in this School are a little family. One of
:07:16. > :07:21.our family is now dead. Jonah Travers came to the funeral
:07:21. > :07:31.without her husband, who remained gravely ill, having been shot six
:07:31. > :07:34.
:07:34. > :07:40.times. -- Jonah. Mary's pupils made a tribute. -- Joan.
:07:40. > :07:45.What was the impact of this on your family? It was devastating. We were
:07:45. > :07:53.such a close family. We had been brought up very middle of the road
:07:53. > :07:57.for, to see the goodness in everybody, to try to be balanced. I
:07:57. > :08:01.just do not think that any of us could really handle it wants Mary
:08:01. > :08:11.was murdered. In the long term, we all ended up leaving Northern
:08:11. > :08:12.
:08:12. > :08:21.Ireland. My poor mum is living up in Belfast on her own.
:08:21. > :08:25.The array said Mary Travers' death was a mistake. -- I R A. Her family
:08:25. > :08:29.have shown as a report into the murder by the historical enquiries
:08:29. > :08:32.team, which concludes the attack was a deliberate attempt to kill
:08:32. > :08:40.all three people with no distinction made between the
:08:40. > :08:45.magistrate, his wife and his daughter. In 1985, Mary McCardle
:08:45. > :08:49.was convicted of murder and sentenced to 18 years in prison for
:08:49. > :08:54.what the judge said was her pre- arranged role in a dreadful crime.
:08:54. > :08:59.When she was convicted, she turned and waved to her family members,
:08:59. > :09:09.cheerful and happy. Prout, no remorse, no regret. Quite happy
:09:09. > :09:15.with what she had done. Yes, she was convicted and went to prison
:09:15. > :09:22.and at least we knew that somebody had been convicted of the murder.
:09:22. > :09:29.But we always know that the two gunmen whenever convicted.
:09:29. > :09:33.Mary McArdle became the IRA's commander amongst her fellow
:09:33. > :09:38.inmates at prison. She used to time to obtain a first class honours
:09:38. > :09:41.degree. She spoke about strip searches by prison staff in a
:09:41. > :09:51.republican video. Her comments have now added to the controversy over
:09:51. > :10:03.
:10:03. > :10:09.Tom Travers remained a magistrate with a bullet still lodged in his
:10:09. > :10:16.neck. Right up to his death in 2009, he longed for answers.
:10:16. > :10:24.He just wanted to know the truth. That is all he wanted to know. What
:10:24. > :10:28.happened to his beautiful daughter and who did it and why. You know,
:10:28. > :10:35.what are Sinn Fein waiting for? Are they waiting for more people to die,
:10:35. > :10:40.heartbroken, not knowing the truth? They need to get a move on.
:10:40. > :10:48.In a 2007, the DUP and Sinn Fein entered government. A momentous day,
:10:48. > :10:52.watched by a prime ministers and 200 specially chosen guests. They
:10:52. > :10:58.included Mary McArdle who had been released from prison in 1998. It
:10:58. > :11:02.was a sign of her rising status, which continued not just on to Sinn
:11:02. > :11:12.Fein's ruling Executive but right into the heart of Stormont. When
:11:12. > :11:16.
:11:16. > :11:22.her former comrade Caral Ni Chuilin speaking culture minister she was
:11:22. > :11:27.appointed a Deputy. Mr McArdle gives most of her weight to Sinn
:11:27. > :11:32.Fein, which could be up to �80,000. -- wage.
:11:32. > :11:37.Some of those people involved now hold positions in government, many
:11:37. > :11:41.people have moved on. Is it something you can not accept?
:11:42. > :11:46.not a matter of acceptance. I accept that Mary McCardle was
:11:46. > :11:50.released. I have accepted that there are people in Stormont who
:11:50. > :11:57.have been elected, voted in, who have been involved in dreadful,
:11:57. > :12:04.dreadful, dreadful crimes. And then I saw this woman who was involved
:12:04. > :12:14.in the murder of my sister being gifted a job. And it appeared to me
:12:14. > :12:15.
:12:15. > :12:22.like a reward. For what she had done.
:12:22. > :12:32.There is no set time on grief. It is important that victims' grief is
:12:32. > :12:35.
:12:35. > :12:41.Across the world in Brisbane Paul Travers who emigrated 20 years ago
:12:41. > :12:46.said a prayer for his dead sister. He was 19 when she was killed.
:12:47. > :12:50.the grief that we have buried and have done to move on came up
:12:50. > :12:56.streaming back because the murderer of by sister is back in the public
:12:56. > :13:05.eye. The woman who murdered my sister and two took part in the
:13:05. > :13:09.attempted murder of my father and my mother and providing -- is now
:13:09. > :13:14.sitting instalment. My sister played in the Ulster Orchestra. She
:13:15. > :13:24.was a talented musician. It does make me wonder what sort of culture
:13:24. > :13:34.we are running into. I feel pity for Mary Ann McArdle. I think she
:13:34. > :13:36.
:13:36. > :13:43.must have a very ugly soul. I think someone who can take lives without
:13:43. > :13:49.any feeling of remorse or any need to talk and explain what she did to
:13:49. > :13:56.the victims' families must be a very hard person. I think it shows
:13:56. > :14:04.the same of moral fibre as it showed the day she murdered my
:14:04. > :14:10.sister. It shows she is a coward. The family want Mary McArdle to
:14:10. > :14:14.leave her post claiming there is a lack of JuneIt remorse. But in an
:14:14. > :14:21.interview Mary and the Cardle said the murder was a tragic mistake.
:14:21. > :14:28.But if that was designed to drop a line of under the affair it failed.
:14:28. > :14:36.The intensity of their human sadness in this case is difficult.
:14:37. > :14:43.It cannot be dismissed. It is difficult to say anything about
:14:43. > :14:53.Mary Travers and there than she was an innocent person done to death in
:14:53. > :14:53.
:14:53. > :15:03.Afro and despicable way. Sinn Fein it does not welcome the world at
:15:03. > :15:04.
:15:04. > :15:10.large being reminded of some of the past. Miss McArdle made an
:15:10. > :15:19.appearance at a North-South meeting in Dublin seen here at behind the
:15:19. > :15:24.minister she once commanded in prison. After words Peter Robinson
:15:24. > :15:30.was asked how he felt about her attendance. I have not engage with
:15:30. > :15:34.any special advisers other than my own. There was a time when the
:15:34. > :15:39.presence of somebody like mayday Mikado might have caused serious
:15:39. > :15:44.political ructions. Peter Robinson made a post on Twitter when the
:15:44. > :15:52.appointment made headlines. He said it was insensitive and a mistake
:15:52. > :16:02.but did not call or resignation. That tells you the depth of thought
:16:02. > :16:03.
:16:03. > :16:10.that went into this. To use Twitter is the lowest scale. They
:16:10. > :16:15.government seems designed -- seems determined to keep the affair Loki.
:16:15. > :16:19.I was going to say special adviser, but I am not allowed to talk about
:16:19. > :16:26.special advisers tonight... That comment came hours after Peter
:16:26. > :16:30.Robinson met Ann Travers. He said there would be a review of the
:16:30. > :16:34.appointment but that made him a card bills position is unlikely to
:16:34. > :16:39.be affected as the review will not be retrospective.
:16:39. > :16:49.A mistake, insensitive, but you are not calling for her to resign at
:16:49. > :16:49.
:16:49. > :16:55.are you? That is not true. I do not know which world you inhabit. We
:16:55. > :16:59.have already made it clear what our position on this is. She should not
:16:59. > :17:06.have been appointed and she should not be in her position. She should
:17:06. > :17:13.resign. She should resign. In the absence of that a review is a set-
:17:13. > :17:18.up to see what we could do to ensure it does not happen again. It
:17:18. > :17:23.angers me that you people try to perpetrate this idea that we are
:17:23. > :17:27.dancing around the issue. We are not dancing around the issue. Peter
:17:27. > :17:32.Robinson immediately after having a discussion instructed and asked me
:17:32. > :17:37.to have this review. That review is being done. It is being done
:17:37. > :17:44.robustly. The outcome will be presented to try and ensure that
:17:44. > :17:52.the situation is remedied. suspect they are buying time. It
:17:52. > :18:02.will slip out of this summer. It will make no difference. Sinn Fein
:18:02. > :18:03.
:18:03. > :18:07.has a veto. The appointment of Mary McArdle cannot be reversed because
:18:07. > :18:11.they do not have the bottle to do that. What is your expectation from
:18:11. > :18:18.Sinn Fein if the review says someone with a serious criminal
:18:18. > :18:24.conviction cannot be a minister. only have a picture of what Sinn
:18:24. > :18:28.Fein have done so far. I suspect they will not take kindly.
:18:28. > :18:36.cannot go any further? Again you are jumping the gun. You do not
:18:36. > :18:46.know what is in this review. We will seek to ensure that it has
:18:46. > :18:47.
:18:47. > :18:57.mechanisms which try and circumvent that. It has to go to the party and
:18:57. > :19:00.to the department. BDP has been dodging and ducking and diving.
:19:00. > :19:08.Their main its preoccupation is staying in government with Sinn
:19:08. > :19:13.Fein. These files are a reminder that while politics may have moved
:19:13. > :19:23.on many questions remain about the past. In the case of Mary Travers
:19:23. > :19:24.
:19:24. > :19:29.there are some unresolved issues concerning Mary McArdle. The
:19:29. > :19:34.historical inquiries report found one of the guns are carried by a
:19:34. > :19:38.mayday McCardle has been used in seven aware IRA killings. Mayday
:19:38. > :19:42.McArdle is named in it their report in connection with one of those
:19:42. > :19:47.other murders. In 1984 and assistant prison governor was shot
:19:47. > :19:52.at home by an IRA gang consisting of two men and a woman getaway
:19:52. > :19:57.driver. It happened one month before the attack on the Travers
:19:57. > :20:03.family. When it the police arrested one of their gunmen if the name of
:20:03. > :20:07.mayday McCardle was written on a piece of paper found in his car.
:20:07. > :20:10.Been there was bought the Historical Enquiry Team say it is
:20:10. > :20:15.incomprehensible that the police made no attempt to put me the
:20:15. > :20:20.Cardle in front of an identity parade. We talked to the lead
:20:20. > :20:24.detective in that case. He is now retired. He said he was unaware of
:20:24. > :20:28.any piece of paper until we told them. He also said the women
:20:28. > :20:31.getaway driver was heavily disguised and he looked at mayday
:20:31. > :20:38.McArdle in custody and did not believe she matched the description
:20:38. > :20:44.of witnesses. In the report the inquiries team say they requested
:20:44. > :20:50.help with a review of the case from the Mary McArdle in 1997 but she
:20:50. > :20:56.never replied. In recent weeks IRA members explained the murders of
:20:56. > :21:01.two senior RUC officers. Gerry Adams said republicans would help
:21:01. > :21:05.families where they could but only in some cases. This case is an
:21:05. > :21:15.early test of that commitment. not interested in prosecution at
:21:15. > :21:18.
:21:18. > :21:21.this stage. I am not interested in anybody being a martyr. They will
:21:21. > :21:26.have won a judge in now and that is when they meet their maker. All
:21:26. > :21:32.they need to do is go into a room that, promised to tell the truth
:21:32. > :21:41.and nothing but the truth and not leave anything out. That is all we
:21:41. > :21:44.have to do. Mary Ann McArdle knows who pulled the trigger. They gave
:21:44. > :21:52.her the guns. She knows who was involved in this. She knows who
:21:52. > :21:58.planned it. She knows to executed it. She has never once attempted to
:21:58. > :22:02.explain to our family what happened. I am not a fool. I know that if or
:22:02. > :22:12.when I ever hear the full story of my sister's murder of course I will
:22:12. > :22:13.
:22:13. > :22:19.beat Andre. -- I will be angry. But it is like a jigsaw puzzle. There
:22:19. > :22:29.are bits missing. Those that need to be filled them. The people who
:22:29. > :22:33.can fill them in are refusing to do so. I spent two weeks trying to get
:22:33. > :22:40.to speak to me the McArdle. I requested an interview through Sinn
:22:40. > :22:42.Fein's press office, e-mailed her directly, and delivered a letter to
:22:42. > :22:52.the department of culture, arts and leisure. Sinn Fein told me she
:22:52. > :22:53.
:22:53. > :23:02.would not talk. There was no sign of her special adviser when it
:23:02. > :23:06.Caral Ni Chuilin it did a press conference last week. She told me I
:23:06. > :23:15.had blotted my copybook but agreed to an interview at the end of the
:23:15. > :23:19.event. The party appointed myself and mayday McArdle to these
:23:19. > :23:25.positions. The was consideration given to the family of the victims?
:23:25. > :23:32.I am sure it was. It is appropriate for people who were involved in
:23:32. > :23:41.conflict to be part of building peace. I do not feel it is
:23:41. > :23:47.appropriate to have a veto over who can be appointed. The Ann Travers
:23:47. > :23:55.family are left with their perception that Sinn Fein is
:23:55. > :24:01.selective about truth and justice. More people in north Belfast has
:24:01. > :24:05.lost families in the conflict than anywhere else. Whenever Mary
:24:05. > :24:11.McCardle says she regrets what happened you obviously believe her.
:24:11. > :24:21.Of course I do. I have known many Mikado a long time. I have a lot of
:24:21. > :24:26.respect for Mary the Cardle. Should mayday and the card will not have
:24:26. > :24:34.co-operated with the inquiry team? No comment. This is finished. Thank
:24:34. > :24:41.you. Thank you. But Sinn Fein's press office was not happy with my
:24:41. > :24:48.interview. They sent me an e-mail saying I had hijacked and
:24:48. > :24:55.Ministerial event. Next I attended a book launch where Martin
:24:56. > :24:59.McGuinness was in attendance. have had a discussion around how we
:24:59. > :25:07.deal with the past. There are people in this room today who are
:25:07. > :25:15.doing a programme. God knows what sort of a programme is will be, but
:25:15. > :25:21.you can imagine. Nelson Mandela was elevated by the people of South
:25:21. > :25:26.Africa are to be President of South Africa. Those people who fail to
:25:26. > :25:34.learn that the lesson in terms of our experience are making a huge
:25:34. > :25:39.mistake. Mary Ann McArdle eventually gave as a statement. She
:25:39. > :25:44.repeated that the killing of Mary Travers was a tragic mistake. She
:25:44. > :25:48.said she has many of -- she is one of many ex-prisoners working in
:25:48. > :25:56.of many ex-prisoners working in politics. She says she is committed
:25:56. > :26:01.to the peace process. She did not address our questions about the
:26:01. > :26:04.murder of the prison officer or murder of the prison officer or
:26:05. > :26:09.about non-cooperation with the historical inquiries team. Today
:26:09. > :26:15.Sinn Fein said Mary Ann McArdle had no information to give an that
:26:15. > :26:19.republicans do not engage with this inquiries team as they do not
:26:19. > :26:24.regard it as a proper part of the process. Mary Ann McArdle refused
:26:24. > :26:34.to co-operate with the Historical Enquiry Team it. What does that
:26:34. > :26:36.
:26:36. > :26:41.tell you? It compounds the situation. It is one of the reasons
:26:41. > :26:44.why Sinn Fein has to accept that there is public anger. Not only
:26:44. > :26:50.have they appointed someone of that background, but somebody who
:26:50. > :26:55.appears to be totally unrepentant. Of the thousands of former IRA
:26:55. > :27:00.prisoners few going to storm it elected or otherwise. Some
:27:00. > :27:10.organised political tours. This group of overseas academics is
:27:10. > :27:14.
:27:14. > :27:21.being hosted by a someone who was jailed three times. I... He
:27:21. > :27:25.famously read the IRA statement ending its armed campaign in 2005.
:27:25. > :27:33.He says there would not have been at peace process without the
:27:33. > :27:40.involvement of former prisoners. Mary-Ann McArdle and people like
:27:40. > :27:47.her have been central to the wall police source -- to the peace
:27:48. > :27:53.process within our community. They have helped to create the climate
:27:53. > :28:03.that is in there today. We are not going to wear sackcloth and ashes
:28:03. > :28:08.
:28:08. > :28:12.as a result of an hour republican past. That is not going to happen.
:28:12. > :28:18.I do want to see them involved in the peace process. It is important.
:28:18. > :28:24.I want to see him being involved in ordinary jobs as well. I am just
:28:24. > :28:33.saying it works both ways. Victims have got right also. For Northern
:28:33. > :28:38.Ireland to move forward they must be sensitive to those victims.
:28:38. > :28:45.you do not think Mary and McArdle should be allowed to do this job?
:28:45. > :28:51.think this job is a step too far. If she stood for election and get
:28:51. > :29:00.voted in the so be it. I have to accept that. I feel sad and second,
:29:00. > :29:06.but I will accept it. It is one year since the most
:29:06. > :29:15.expensive search for truth in British history. The victims of
:29:15. > :29:22.Bloody Sunday would indicate that - - were vindicated. Here it is
:29:22. > :29:29.anniversary event the appreciated what that meant to get answers.
:29:29. > :29:38.are here to celebrate that but also to remember all those who still
:29:38. > :29:48.have to search for the truth of how their loved ones were done to death.
:29:48. > :29:49.
:29:49. > :29:55.Mary Travers family... And all those who have never made headlines
:29:56. > :30:01.that have died in that their troubles. Dealing with the past is
:30:01. > :30:05.a delicate issue as this man knows better than most. In 2009 he was
:30:05. > :30:09.part of a government appointed group which suggested how best to
:30:09. > :30:16.address the brought legacy of conflict, but the report was
:30:16. > :30:23.shelved. Some people wanted the pass to go away. This case has
:30:23. > :30:27.shown that it is not going away. It keeps seeping into a lot of the
:30:27. > :30:34.institutions that we have already established. This case has brought
:30:34. > :30:40.it to the heart of Stormont. Beside the new peace bridge I have come up
:30:40. > :30:45.to meet a man whose brother was killed on bloody Sunday. His
:30:45. > :30:49.experience has been the opposite of the family of the Travers in that
:30:49. > :30:54.he has not seen anyone prosecuted that he did get at the truth.
:30:54. > :31:02.would support Ann Travers wholeheartedly. The more I think
:31:02. > :31:06.about it, if there war is over is it over for good and if it is over
:31:06. > :31:15.for a good can we give that information? I think they should
:31:15. > :31:25.think sincerely about that now. John Travers is the only remaining
:31:25. > :31:35.survivor of the attack. My mother is now in her eighties. My father
:31:35. > :31:39.passed away in 2009. How long our victims made to wait? My grief is
:31:39. > :31:43.not greater than anybody else's grief. There were dreadful things
:31:43. > :31:53.happened on both sides of the community. I am just saying to them
:31:53. > :31:54.
:31:54. > :32:00.it plays -- it goes both ways. Please listen to me. I am doing
:32:00. > :32:08.this for my sister Mary. She was completely innocent. She did not
:32:08. > :32:17.deserve to be shot in the back in cold blood. People say we are in a
:32:17. > :32:23.better time now. I wonder sometimes. I sometimes think that half of this
:32:23. > :32:30.country is still in bits as a result of the Troubles. I do not
:32:30. > :32:36.really see it coming together again. This is not a one of case. There
:32:36. > :32:41.will be more cases. It will continue to be difficult for Sinn