The Whistleblower and the Watchdog

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0:00:07 > 0:00:11This man's resignation plunged the office of Al Hutchinson into crisis.

0:00:11 > 0:00:16The strength and integrity of the office has weakened.

0:00:16 > 0:00:19Tonne on Spotlight, new evidence of failings in the body yet-up to hold

0:00:19 > 0:00:25police to account. There was informers involved and

0:00:25 > 0:00:30they should have been obliged to tell me exactly what they found.

0:00:30 > 0:00:35The intelligence branch of the PSNI given the all clear in the

0:00:35 > 0:00:42unmasking and subsequent death of Denis Donaldson. But was key

0:00:42 > 0:00:46evidence overlooked? How Can you close a case and find

0:00:46 > 0:00:52no evidence of police misconduct? Well, you seem to be rising new

0:00:52 > 0:00:58facts. Al Hutchinson is a former Royal ka in aidy mounty -- Canadian

0:00:58 > 0:01:02mowny. He stands accused of failing to pursue allegation that that

0:01:02 > 0:01:12Special Branch officers and agents broke the law.

0:01:12 > 0:01:37

0:01:37 > 0:01:41Murder, the loss of life, some The office of the Police Ombudsman

0:01:41 > 0:01:46has been a critical part of Northern Ireland's new future for

0:01:46 > 0:01:53policing. After ten years at the heart of police reform, Sam Pollock

0:01:53 > 0:01:56leaves work for the last time. With his resignation, the ombudsman's

0:01:56 > 0:02:06Chief Executive, sent shockwaves through the organisation set-up to

0:02:06 > 0:02:08

0:02:09 > 0:02:16hold police to account. He has refused to speak about why

0:02:16 > 0:02:21he left his �90,000 a year job until now. It was a statement on my

0:02:21 > 0:02:25part that I couldn't do anymore. I basically lost confidence in the

0:02:25 > 0:02:33direction of the office and the independence of the office in

0:02:33 > 0:02:39relation to very serious matters. The prospective of the police mind

0:02:39 > 0:02:41became upper most. His departure led to two officials reports that

0:02:41 > 0:02:47found a lack of leadership and a loss of independence. Criticism

0:02:47 > 0:02:52that led to the suspension of historical investigations, the

0:02:52 > 0:02:58ombudsman's most controversial area of work and forced Al Hutchinson to

0:02:58 > 0:03:02announce he will retire next June. I decided to leave because the

0:03:02 > 0:03:05office was being damaged by the attacks on me.

0:03:05 > 0:03:11Snoot difficult issues need to be addressed and and they are issues

0:03:11 > 0:03:15of transparency. They are issues of truthfulness about some very bad

0:03:15 > 0:03:20stories and matters which no matter how much we don't want to face them,

0:03:20 > 0:03:25need to be faced. I can assure everybody that we do

0:03:25 > 0:03:28deliver independent, impartial evidence based reports and whether

0:03:28 > 0:03:34that is perceived by the public or not is a matter of debate.

0:03:34 > 0:03:39. Disciplined by the ombudsman as internal rows became bitter, Sam

0:03:39 > 0:03:43Pollock has become an unlikely whistle-blower, after a career in

0:03:43 > 0:03:50the Criminal Justice System spanning 40 years, service that was

0:03:50 > 0:03:53rewarded with an OBE six years ago. My resignation was not in a fit of

0:03:53 > 0:03:57pique or anything like that. I did not want to be associated with

0:03:57 > 0:04:04something that I believed was not act in the public interest. I think

0:04:04 > 0:04:08he has done the office a service. His resignation from such a highly

0:04:08 > 0:04:12paid post in such circumstances speaks for itself. It was the act

0:04:12 > 0:04:22of a man of integrity. Sam Pollock Accused the watchdog he

0:04:22 > 0:04:24

0:04:24 > 0:04:27worked for, of turning a blind eye of serious wrongdoing to the police.

0:04:27 > 0:04:31Some of the ombudsman's investigators and senior officials

0:04:31 > 0:04:40claimed they have been kept in the dark and that reports have been

0:04:40 > 0:04:45changed to reduce criticism of the police. But this isn't just Sam

0:04:45 > 0:04:49Pollock's story. I spent weeks investigating cases that go to the

0:04:49 > 0:04:54heart of his criticisms. I have taught the families of victims who

0:04:54 > 0:04:58share his views and found that this is not simply about a failure to

0:04:58 > 0:05:04probe the RUC's past. I have discovered shortcomings in

0:05:04 > 0:05:09oversight of the PSNI. Obviously not at this stage.

0:05:09 > 0:05:14For 20 years, senior Sinn Fein member, Denis Donaldson led a

0:05:14 > 0:05:24secret life as an informer for MI5, the RUC and the PSNI.

0:05:24 > 0:05:29Then he was exposed as an agent and shot dead at a remote cottage in

0:05:29 > 0:05:34Donegal. Three years after he was killed, the Real IRA said they were

0:05:34 > 0:05:38responsible, but his family pointed an accusing finger at the police.

0:05:38 > 0:05:45They claim officers, who knew about Denis Donaldson's secret role, may

0:05:45 > 0:05:51have exposed him as an agent and contributed to his death. They

0:05:51 > 0:05:53complained to the Police Ombudsman and say he failed to conduct a

0:05:53 > 0:05:56proper investigation into their claims.

0:05:56 > 0:06:00Are you aware of the nature of the complaint made by the family of

0:06:00 > 0:06:02Denis Donaldson? I am because representative of the family did

0:06:03 > 0:06:07speak to me. Do you have a view on how their

0:06:07 > 0:06:14complaint was treated by the office? I have no doubt that the

0:06:14 > 0:06:20family are quite right to be just to feel frustrated or agitated

0:06:20 > 0:06:24about how the matter was dealt W Denis Donaldson's family believe a

0:06:24 > 0:06:31Special Branch agent handler, Lenny, may have the answers. It was a

0:06:31 > 0:06:40phone call from Lenny that sent Denis Donaldson fleeing to this

0:06:40 > 0:06:45cottage to dony from his home in Belfast.. All these events

0:06:45 > 0:06:50initiated with Denis being expositioned or forced into a a

0:06:50 > 0:06:54position where he admit his role as an agent. He was force nood that

0:06:54 > 0:07:04position by bun of the intelligence -- one of the intelligence agencies

0:07:04 > 0:07:04

0:07:04 > 0:07:10that recruited him. Nuala O'Loan now sits in the House

0:07:10 > 0:07:14of Lords. But in 2007, she was coming to the end of her seven year

0:07:14 > 0:07:20term as Police Ombudsman. The Donaldson family brought their

0:07:21 > 0:07:26concerns to her. I think I would have described it

0:07:26 > 0:07:29as grave and exceptional. A man who had been in a very significant

0:07:29 > 0:07:32position was murdered in questionable circumstances, I would

0:07:32 > 0:07:36have regarded it as significant, but more than that, I don't think I

0:07:36 > 0:07:39can say. After Nuala O'Loan left office, the

0:07:39 > 0:07:44Donaldson's complaint was redrafted and sent back to them, but they

0:07:44 > 0:07:47refused to sign it. The case case appeared to stall. A letter from

0:07:47 > 0:07:52the ombudsman said if the complaint wasn't signed, the matter would be

0:07:52 > 0:07:57closed and no further investigation would take place. The family didn't

0:07:57 > 0:08:01respond. They say they didn't want an investigation conducted under

0:08:01 > 0:08:06the new terms. The investigation was being closed,

0:08:06 > 0:08:09it was dead and buried they took the ombudsman's correspondance at

0:08:09 > 0:08:12face value. Other a year later, another letter

0:08:12 > 0:08:16arrived, even though the investigation had been declared

0:08:17 > 0:08:22closed, the family was told the ombudsman had gone on to conduct

0:08:22 > 0:08:26significant inquiries with the PSNI. The letter said no police

0:08:26 > 0:08:31misconduct has been identified and that this office has concluded the

0:08:31 > 0:08:35investigation and now considers the matter to be closed.

0:08:35 > 0:08:39But I have established that the case was closed without

0:08:39 > 0:08:44investigators speaking to the Special Branch handler known as

0:08:44 > 0:08:49Lenny. It is an issue that goes to the heart of complaints about the

0:08:49 > 0:08:52office of the ombudsman, that is reluctant to investigate

0:08:52 > 0:08:57allegations involving informants and their handlers.

0:08:57 > 0:09:03It can't be said to be an effective investigation because Lenny is the

0:09:03 > 0:09:07person at the centre of all this who has serious questions to ask.

0:09:07 > 0:09:10It beggars belief that the person in respect of hom the complaint --

0:09:10 > 0:09:16whom the complaint was directed wasn't even spoken to.

0:09:16 > 0:09:19Would you accept that it would would not be possible to conduct a

0:09:19 > 0:09:25proper investigation without speaking to the Special Branch

0:09:25 > 0:09:30handler? I am not across the file and the detail. I will look at it,

0:09:30 > 0:09:34but I really don't have the detail. The ombudsman's investigators were

0:09:34 > 0:09:38unaware of a potentially vital piece of information about Denis

0:09:38 > 0:09:43Donaldson's life as an informer. Something Irish police removed from

0:09:43 > 0:09:49cottage as part of their investigation and have refused to

0:09:49 > 0:09:56return to the family. When Gardai set-up a meeting with the family in

0:09:56 > 0:10:02July of 2006, to facilitate the return of personal effects and

0:10:02 > 0:10:08property that Denis had, Denis's widow noticed that missing was a

0:10:08 > 0:10:12jotter or a notebook in which Denis was writing issues in relation to

0:10:12 > 0:10:16his life. Denis was writing a journal.

0:10:16 > 0:10:20Gardai took away the jotter or journal after the murder. Denis

0:10:20 > 0:10:25Donaldson's family wants to read it. They believe it may provide clues

0:10:25 > 0:10:31about why he was killed and by whom. They were told it would be given

0:10:31 > 0:10:35back, but later informed that for security reasons the jotter cannot

0:10:35 > 0:10:39be returned. Is it the family's belief that the

0:10:39 > 0:10:43journal may have contained details of his life as an informant? Well,

0:10:43 > 0:10:49all the family know is that this material was going to be provided

0:10:49 > 0:10:54and returned to them. They then seen about face in terms of the

0:10:54 > 0:10:57Gardai decision to disclose that material which effectively would

0:10:57 > 0:11:02have been the last writings of this man before he was killed.

0:11:02 > 0:11:06I know nothing about a journal. I take it this is what the family are

0:11:06 > 0:11:10saying and the Gardai have that information. We would have to

0:11:10 > 0:11:17liaise with them. REPORTER: How can you close a case

0:11:17 > 0:11:22and find no police misconduct if you don't know the answers to those

0:11:22 > 0:11:23questions? Well, if there are new facts that need to come to us then

0:11:23 > 0:11:28certainly the family can bring them forward.

0:11:28 > 0:11:35So you will be looking at the case again? Well, it again it goes with

0:11:35 > 0:11:40the 128 or 19 that are in the list -- 129 that are on the list.

0:11:40 > 0:11:44The case is back on Al Hutchinson's list because the Hutchinson family

0:11:44 > 0:11:47brought the matter to the Chief Constable. The PSNI asked the

0:11:47 > 0:11:51ombudsman to re-open the investigation. The delay in the

0:11:51 > 0:11:56case has probably closed down one line of inquiry. We understand the

0:11:56 > 0:12:04handler known as Lenny has retired from the PSNI, meaning that under

0:12:04 > 0:12:08current legislation, he is no longer obliged to speak to the

0:12:08 > 0:12:13ombudsman's investigators. It was the dark corners of intelligence

0:12:13 > 0:12:20and the use of informers that became a battleground inside the

0:12:20 > 0:12:24ombudsman's office. I sensed in the end a dilemma or a conflict in

0:12:24 > 0:12:33terms of dealing with the whole issue of informants. It is a

0:12:33 > 0:12:43difficult matter. It is a sensitive matter. But short of that, a family

0:12:43 > 0:12:45

0:12:45 > 0:12:50who is maybe been living for years or decades with grief, not knowing

0:12:50 > 0:12:58basic information with regard to the death and loss, they have a

0:12:58 > 0:13:05right to know as much as possible. To speak about the involvement of

0:13:05 > 0:13:10an an informant directly or indirectly in murder and the loss

0:13:10 > 0:13:15of life, some atrocities, you cannot fudge that.

0:13:15 > 0:13:21And the office should not and never should step back from exposing that.

0:13:21 > 0:13:25But I found evidence that they did just that. The first time the

0:13:25 > 0:13:33ombudsman investigated the murder of a police officer his report

0:13:33 > 0:13:36withheld a key piece of information. In October 1988, RUC officer John

0:13:36 > 0:13:46Larmour was off duty and looking after his brother's ice cream

0:13:46 > 0:13:46

0:13:47 > 0:13:54parlour when two gunmen walked in just before closing time.

0:13:54 > 0:14:01No one has ever been charged with the murder.

0:14:01 > 0:14:04Gavin Larmour was 13 when his father was killed. Years later, he

0:14:04 > 0:14:09complained to the ombudsman about the police investigation into the

0:14:09 > 0:14:12murder. The ombudsman found that Special Branch had not told

0:14:12 > 0:14:19detectives everything they knew, but the ombudsman didn't tell him

0:14:19 > 0:14:24why the information was held back. Legislation prevents Sam Pollock

0:14:24 > 0:14:30from talking about specific cases, but he understands Gavin Larmour's

0:14:30 > 0:14:39anger. I cannot say anything more that I

0:14:39 > 0:14:44can understand why Gavin felt let down or felt the way he did with

0:14:44 > 0:14:48regard to reporting on the death of his father.

0:14:48 > 0:14:51REPORTER: You can understand his frustration? I can understand his

0:14:51 > 0:14:54frustration. Three-and-a-half years ago, the

0:14:54 > 0:14:57ombudsman released a two page report on the murder saying the

0:14:57 > 0:15:01investigation was hampered by Special Branch.

0:15:01 > 0:15:04It was information that was not passed on post the killing that

0:15:04 > 0:15:09could have assisted the investigation. The more important

0:15:09 > 0:15:16question is exactly what is that intelligence? Who does it

0:15:16 > 0:15:21implicate? Who handled it and why did they choose not to disseminate

0:15:21 > 0:15:27that down wards to the investigation team?

0:15:27 > 0:15:30REPORTER: Why was it not pass on to detectives -- passed on to

0:15:30 > 0:15:36detectives? Well, that is part of the new allegation that came up

0:15:36 > 0:15:40that is currently going to be investigated once we restart

0:15:40 > 0:15:45historic investigations. Al Hutchinson insists that Gavin

0:15:45 > 0:15:52Larmour has only only recently made the allegation that Special Branch

0:15:52 > 0:15:58was was protecting an informer. But I've learned that it is something

0:15:58 > 0:16:04the ombudsman's office has known about for sometime.

0:16:04 > 0:16:08In 2008, two weeks before the report and John Larmour's murder

0:16:08 > 0:16:12was published, a senior officer warned that the office was

0:16:12 > 0:16:16vulnerable if the Larmour report did not acknowledge that

0:16:16 > 0:16:24information was withheld from detectives in order to to protect a

0:16:24 > 0:16:29source. If there is any evidence or any

0:16:29 > 0:16:33indication of that whatsoever, they should have been obliged in their

0:16:33 > 0:16:36reply to me to tell me what they found.

0:16:36 > 0:16:40The John Larmour murder investigation brought to light a

0:16:40 > 0:16:45familiar story. Intelligence withheld from detectives who could

0:16:45 > 0:16:50have used it. That's what gave RUC Special Branch a reputation as a

0:16:50 > 0:16:55force within a force. Some of the ombudsman's investigators now

0:16:55 > 0:17:00believe the same problem exists within their office.

0:17:00 > 0:17:05In 2008, Al Hutchinson and this man, senior Director of Investigations

0:17:05 > 0:17:10Jim Coupland, commission add review of how sensitive intelligence was

0:17:10 > 0:17:16controlled in the ombudsman's office. It was set-up in response

0:17:16 > 0:17:21to PSNI concerns. Jim Coupland brought in four police figures from

0:17:21 > 0:17:26Great Britain to conduct the review. There are 17 recommendations were

0:17:26 > 0:17:32only seen by Mr Coupland and Al Hutchinson. But the effect of the

0:17:32 > 0:17:38review was to introduce a filter known as the confidential unit

0:17:38 > 0:17:43between police intelligence and ombudsman investigators.

0:17:43 > 0:17:49It is create ago firewall. -- it is create ago firewall. That did

0:17:49 > 0:17:55concern me. Because one of the very strong vitisms we made --

0:17:55 > 0:17:59criticisms we made of the PSNI or previously the RUC was that

0:17:59 > 0:18:05investigators were not getting all the information they needed or

0:18:05 > 0:18:10should have had from what was previously Special Branch. Although

0:18:10 > 0:18:16it is not a term I would use much, but the old term of the, "Force

0:18:16 > 0:18:20within the force" had real significance. The review seemed to

0:18:20 > 0:18:24almost replicate what we criticised the police for which was we had a

0:18:24 > 0:18:33unit within a unit. We had an office within an office.

0:18:33 > 0:18:36No, I don't agree. I don't think that's an appropriate analogy. All

0:18:36 > 0:18:41we did was tighten up the information and the loose handling

0:18:41 > 0:18:46of it and I don't agree with Sam as he said that as restricted

0:18:46 > 0:18:50information, necessary information, to the to the investigators.

0:18:50 > 0:18:55Six months ago, Al Hutchinson called in criminal justice

0:18:55 > 0:18:59inspector Michael Maguire to investigate Sam Pollock's concerns.

0:18:59 > 0:19:03He criticised the intelligence review for focusing entirely on the

0:19:03 > 0:19:08needs of the police and MI5 while apparently giving no regard to the

0:19:08 > 0:19:12needs of civilian oversight. One of the core functions of the

0:19:12 > 0:19:17ombudsman's office. Proper mechanism for handling material, I

0:19:17 > 0:19:22don't have a problem with. What I did have a concern with was the

0:19:22 > 0:19:27absence of civilians within the ombudsman's office, non police in

0:19:27 > 0:19:32contributing to that review. We had as we moved forward, the beginnings

0:19:32 > 0:19:36of serious mistrust within the organisation over the way in which

0:19:36 > 0:19:40confidential information and sensitive material was handled.

0:19:40 > 0:19:43Was it a mistake not to have any civilian input into the review of

0:19:43 > 0:19:47the intelligence function within your office? No, it was not a

0:19:47 > 0:19:50mistake. It was not set-up for that. Trying to distinguish the two areas,

0:19:50 > 0:19:53the product that comes out of there has to be balanced against the

0:19:53 > 0:20:03public's right for information versus the right to protect the

0:20:03 > 0:20:08life of informants and information. By May last year, the ombudsman's

0:20:08 > 0:20:11office was deeply divided over the handling of intelligence.

0:20:11 > 0:20:16Particularly about how much to reveal when informers were involved.

0:20:16 > 0:20:20That became apparent here on this estate in Derry.

0:20:21 > 0:20:27Here, three families became caught between the IRA's attempt to kill

0:20:27 > 0:20:30police officers and the RUC's suspected attempt to protect a mole

0:20:30 > 0:20:38inside the provisionals and here the ombudsman is alleged to have

0:20:38 > 0:20:44stepped back from highlighting a terrible failure to protect life.

0:20:44 > 0:20:54It was a flat roof building at that time with a balcony on it and this

0:20:54 > 0:20:55

0:20:55 > 0:20:59would have been our house originally. On the 3 sst the 31st

0:20:59 > 0:21:05August 1988, my father was killed in an explosion at our home.

0:21:05 > 0:21:09Father of six, Eugene Dalton was caught in a trap meant for police.

0:21:09 > 0:21:14The IRA kidnapped the man who lived in the flat above Eugene Dalton's

0:21:14 > 0:21:21home. They planted a bomb inside attached to the door.

0:21:21 > 0:21:25The IRA then made several attempts to lure police into the trap. A car

0:21:25 > 0:21:30used in a rocket attack on an RUC station was left outside the flat

0:21:30 > 0:21:38and a trail of blood was left leading to the door.

0:21:38 > 0:21:43Police were told about the car, but didn't go to the flat. Two days

0:21:43 > 0:21:48later, a chip shop was robbed, ID belonging to the man who lived in

0:21:48 > 0:21:54the flat was dropped by the robbers. Again, police did not go to the

0:21:54 > 0:21:58flat. That's because what is known as an out of bounds order had been

0:21:58 > 0:22:04issued telling police to stay away from the streets around the bomb.

0:22:04 > 0:22:08No such warning was given to the public.

0:22:08 > 0:22:12The bomb had been in place six days when Eugene Dalton and two friends

0:22:12 > 0:22:18went to look for their missing neighbour. The bomb was triggered

0:22:18 > 0:22:22when Eugene opened the door. Eugene Dalton and Sheila Lewis were killed

0:22:22 > 0:22:25immediately. Gerard Curran died later in hospital. The Daltons

0:22:25 > 0:22:30acknowledged that the IRA was responsible for killing their

0:22:30 > 0:22:36father, but in 2005, they complained to the Police Ombudsman

0:22:36 > 0:22:40alleging that police could have prevented the deaths.

0:22:40 > 0:22:44In 2008, ombudsman investigators briefed the Daltons about their

0:22:44 > 0:22:48findings. They indicated that an informer told police about an

0:22:48 > 0:22:50attack, a warning they had never made its way to residents of the

0:22:50 > 0:22:56estate. What did the investigators tell

0:22:56 > 0:22:59you? Well, they told us that they had had discovered that there was

0:22:59 > 0:23:04an exclusion put into that area. That the police and the soldiers

0:23:04 > 0:23:08were told not to go near that area. Did investigators say that because

0:23:08 > 0:23:12of an out of bounds order, that proved the bliss knew where the

0:23:12 > 0:23:17bomb -- police knew with the bomb was? Yes, that did prove that the

0:23:17 > 0:23:20police did know where the bomb was. Well, it was never going to be a

0:23:20 > 0:23:25happy outcome because at the end of the day, nothing is going to bring

0:23:25 > 0:23:30my daddy back. It made us feel better that we had been found to be

0:23:30 > 0:23:35right. That the police were wrong. One of the of the investigators did

0:23:35 > 0:23:39say in a discussion after the meeting, "This will not be easy

0:23:39 > 0:23:46reading for the police.". wouldn't have been easy read read

0:23:46 > 0:23:49if it had been published. Last year, a draft ombudsman's report upheld

0:23:49 > 0:23:53the Dalton's chief complaints, including the allegation that

0:23:53 > 0:23:56police knew a bomb was in place but did not act because they were

0:23:56 > 0:24:02protecting an informer. The draft had taken almost five years to

0:24:02 > 0:24:08produce, but it was then rewritten over one weekend, reversing each of

0:24:08 > 0:24:12the findings. It suddenly became much easier reading for the police.

0:24:13 > 0:24:18Days after the rewrite, Al Hutchinson, Jim Coupland, and two

0:24:18 > 0:24:23other senior directors met the dal tans and -- Daltons and read out

0:24:23 > 0:24:30the revised conclusions. We feel that the delegation who

0:24:30 > 0:24:37came from Belfast, came to basically sell us a pup. I think

0:24:37 > 0:24:45those changes were made to remove or minimise the impact of the fact

0:24:45 > 0:24:49that the RUC, Special Branch, knew about that bomb.

0:24:49 > 0:24:54I'm in no doubt from within the office that that there were

0:24:54 > 0:24:57concerns about the changing of that report. The redrafts led to less

0:24:57 > 0:25:01criticism of the police? There was no deliberate lowering of criticism

0:25:01 > 0:25:04of the police. That is not an issue. Well, reports are changed

0:25:04 > 0:25:07throughout the process, but they are only changed this response to

0:25:07 > 0:25:11evidence or evaluation of that evidence and certainly observed

0:25:11 > 0:25:15they are changed. They are changed both ways to favour the police, to

0:25:15 > 0:25:18criticise the police, it depends on the evidence. It is always evidence

0:25:18 > 0:25:22based. The the impact of the changes in

0:25:22 > 0:25:25that report were to make it less critical of the police and change

0:25:25 > 0:25:29the clunetionz given to families and the representatives. We weren't

0:25:29 > 0:25:34clear as to why changes were made because there was no clear evidence

0:25:34 > 0:25:39as to why or what new evidence had come to light.

0:25:39 > 0:25:43He couldn't find any paper trail. It looks like he didn't ask anybody

0:25:43 > 0:25:45involved in the process for any explanations. If he had, they would

0:25:45 > 0:25:51have provided him. Is there a paper trail? Well, no,

0:25:51 > 0:25:54there isn't. That appears to be the issue with that particular file.

0:25:54 > 0:25:58go to the Police Ombudsman and them accept the case, it was like

0:25:58 > 0:26:03brilliant, we're going to get the answers we need and then last year

0:26:03 > 0:26:10when they came down in May with the story and read us that report, we

0:26:10 > 0:26:15were just gutted. We just felt, it was a real hard blow. We felt let

0:26:15 > 0:26:20down. Really let down.

0:26:20 > 0:26:24Because they were set-up to give us answers and they just gave us more

0:26:24 > 0:26:29questions. Those questions have multiplied

0:26:29 > 0:26:34because the ombudsman's office was divided over how to carry the

0:26:34 > 0:26:38investigation forward. The Dalton family was told investigators

0:26:38 > 0:26:42received legal advice that former RUC officers could be arrested and

0:26:42 > 0:26:47questioned about allegations that they had broken the law by failing

0:26:47 > 0:26:52to act. That step would have outraged

0:26:52 > 0:26:55retired officers. But it didn't happen. Investigators were directed

0:26:55 > 0:27:03to treat retired officers as witnesses and not suspects.

0:27:03 > 0:27:09Did you arrest any retired officers for questioning? The answer is no.

0:27:09 > 0:27:16And did you consider doing so? we'll leave that to the final

0:27:16 > 0:27:24report. I think that all avenues of inquiry should have been available

0:27:24 > 0:27:30to the investigating officers. I feel that any confidence that we in

0:27:30 > 0:27:33the ombudsman's office has gone. When you think of the spirit in

0:27:33 > 0:27:39which the ombudsman's office was set-up and that spirit no longer

0:27:39 > 0:27:42exists within the ombudsman's office as far as I see.

0:27:42 > 0:27:47Baroness Nuala O'Loan is well acquainted with the issue of

0:27:47 > 0:27:51retired officers. She felt some of her investigations were stymied

0:27:51 > 0:27:57because former officers would not co-operate even as witnesses. When

0:27:57 > 0:28:02her term as Police Ombudsman expired in 2007, she left behind a

0:28:02 > 0:28:07legally required review with 26 recommendations for strengthening

0:28:07 > 0:28:12the powers of the ombudsman. One of the recommendations you made

0:28:12 > 0:28:19you could compel retired officers to come to interview? We should be

0:28:19 > 0:28:22able to do that because they are a big resource in terms of the Police

0:28:22 > 0:28:28Service of Northern Ireland. Whilst they understand there were many

0:28:28 > 0:28:35cases for them a long time ago, it was nfrl very important that we got

0:28:35 > 0:28:40the co-operation and in some cases they were non co-operative.

0:28:40 > 0:28:44Her proposal was opposed by retired officers, but when Al Hutchinson

0:28:44 > 0:28:47became Police Ombudsman, he accepted 19 of Nuala O'Loan's 26

0:28:47 > 0:28:52recommendations including the measure to compel former officers

0:28:52 > 0:28:57to speak to investigators. As discussions about the proposals

0:28:57 > 0:29:04dragged on for almost two years, Mr Hutchinson delegated the work to

0:29:04 > 0:29:07Jim Coupland and another official. In October 2009, Mr Cope land

0:29:07 > 0:29:11signed a memo with the Northern Ireland Office spelling out the

0:29:11 > 0:29:15original 26 proposals, but the memo told the minister that Al

0:29:15 > 0:29:20Hutchinson was accepting just four. There was one problem - he didn't

0:29:20 > 0:29:24know. It was presented as an agreed document between the Northern

0:29:24 > 0:29:32Ireland Office and between your office and it was signed off

0:29:32 > 0:29:35between the Director of NIO and an official. I didn't know about it

0:29:35 > 0:29:41and that was brought to our attention about December 2009.

0:29:41 > 0:29:51Well, when I saw the actual document in December 2009, I would

0:29:51 > 0:29:52

0:29:52 > 0:30:00say that that was the beginning of my loss of confidence in what was

0:30:00 > 0:30:05going on behind the scenes. The information presented to the

0:30:05 > 0:30:11minister would suggest that those recommendations had the full force,

0:30:11 > 0:30:16the full support, of the Police Ombudsman, myself and our staff and

0:30:16 > 0:30:22that was fundamentally untrue. In fact, it only had the support of

0:30:22 > 0:30:26one member of staff, the senior director and I found that amazing.

0:30:26 > 0:30:31I was quite shocked. It would appear that Jim Coupland

0:30:31 > 0:30:35was in the driving seat, rather than you? I am ultimately

0:30:35 > 0:30:37responsible for that. If you are saying that Jim Coupland bears

0:30:37 > 0:30:43responsibility for that, no he doesn't.

0:30:43 > 0:30:47Were you surprised that 22 of your 26 recommendations were rejected?

0:30:47 > 0:30:50find it very odd. The power to compel retired

0:30:50 > 0:30:56officers was among the 22 recommendations Jim Coupland said

0:30:56 > 0:31:00the ombudsman had rejected. That proposal has been put back on the

0:31:00 > 0:31:05table by Al Hutchinson. It is all going forward in the next five year

0:31:05 > 0:31:07review. It is a rather mute point and by the end of October that will

0:31:07 > 0:31:13be back to the Minister for Consulting.

0:31:13 > 0:31:16The Northern Ireland Office said its officials acted in good faith

0:31:16 > 0:31:22thinking the ombudsman was aware of changes to the review, but Sam

0:31:22 > 0:31:25Pollock believes the work of Nuala O'Loan made them determined to

0:31:25 > 0:31:30stall greater power going to the ombudsman.

0:31:30 > 0:31:39I do believe the strategy behind what happened over the five year

0:31:39 > 0:31:44review was wholy in the hands of the Northern Ireland Office and no

0:31:44 > 0:31:49one else. There seemed to be some view at that level that the wings

0:31:49 > 0:31:58of the office had to be clipped or that the office couldn't continue

0:31:58 > 0:32:05to act in such a strong fashion and therefore, the recommendations were

0:32:05 > 0:32:13kicked into touch. In 2007, Nuala O'Loan published a

0:32:13 > 0:32:16controversial report into the activities of a UVF informer,

0:32:16 > 0:32:20titled Operation Ballast, the report said he been protected and

0:32:20 > 0:32:23paid by Special Branch while leading the gang involved in more

0:32:23 > 0:32:28than ten murders. Senior police officers from the time told me that

0:32:28 > 0:32:33intelligence agencies were deeply alarmed because the revelations

0:32:33 > 0:32:38exposed the work of an active informer.

0:32:38 > 0:32:43It was the kind of case that Al Hutchinson has described as toxic

0:32:43 > 0:32:47for the ombudsman's office. Now all of the historic cases,

0:32:47 > 0:32:51during my time and before mip time, have -- my time have all generated

0:32:51 > 0:32:55controversy. The police are either upset or the families are upset, it

0:32:55 > 0:33:00is hard to be in the middle, but the salvation and the way to go, of

0:33:00 > 0:33:03course, is evidence based. If we can evidence a fact then we should

0:33:03 > 0:33:08report it against the police or against the family.

0:33:08 > 0:33:13But cases like Operation Ballast bridge the past and the present.

0:33:13 > 0:33:18The RUC and the PSNI. I have learned of a similar case involving

0:33:18 > 0:33:25an IRA informer that could turn out to be just as significant. It has

0:33:25 > 0:33:29been with Al Hutchinson for four years. In 2007, former Chief

0:33:29 > 0:33:34Constable, Sir Hugh Orde sent the ombudsman details of this case for

0:33:34 > 0:33:40investigation. Jim Coupland decided there were no resources available

0:33:40 > 0:33:46to pursue the case. Sam Pollock was astonished.

0:33:46 > 0:33:54There is nothing more important really than a referral from a Chief

0:33:54 > 0:34:03Constable. And it beggars belief that such a matter could have been

0:34:04 > 0:34:09shelved or relegated or just not dealt with. I don't accept that the

0:34:09 > 0:34:13resources would be an issue. That shocked me. I was surprised that

0:34:13 > 0:34:18the decision not to investigate it further was taken on the basis of a

0:34:18 > 0:34:22lack of resources. There is other criteria and that should have been

0:34:22 > 0:34:26factored into the decision making. On the list of of priorities where

0:34:26 > 0:34:30does a Chief Constable referral sit? Oh, it would sit very high. It

0:34:30 > 0:34:34would sit very high. Because what you are looking at is the

0:34:34 > 0:34:38seriousness of the issue and the other things are that the

0:34:38 > 0:34:42legislation says the Police Ombudsman should investigate, so

0:34:42 > 0:34:45you simply must investigate. It just goes without saying. It has to

0:34:45 > 0:34:55be done. In a statement to pot light Sir

0:34:55 > 0:35:02

0:35:02 > 0:35:08Hugh Orde -- Spotlight Sir Hugh Well, resources are always an issue.

0:35:08 > 0:35:14If I recall, that's a case that spanned history and current, the

0:35:14 > 0:35:16troubles and again, resources are key to this, that's why I need more

0:35:16 > 0:35:21resources, the devolved administration has to deliver.

0:35:21 > 0:35:26Your former former Chief Executive, Sam Pollock, said it beggars belief

0:35:26 > 0:35:31that such a referralal was not investigated immediately. Well, I

0:35:31 > 0:35:35haven't heard Sam say that before, so I'm not sure what his comment is

0:35:35 > 0:35:38with respect. We asked Nuala O'Loan about this and she said if

0:35:38 > 0:35:42necessary, you suspend investigations into other cases,

0:35:42 > 0:35:47you prioritise and you free up resources. Well, with respect, nul

0:35:47 > 0:35:51la is not here. Somebody has to make those decisions and the

0:35:51 > 0:35:59decision was taken and anything is open to review.

0:35:59 > 0:36:04Did you ask for more resources for this referralal? No, we didn't. We

0:36:04 > 0:36:08asked for more money to deal with all the historic cases. Well,

0:36:08 > 0:36:12sitting with 128 cases which one do you want me to deal with?

0:36:13 > 0:36:18business tute inside the om -- dispute inside the ombudsman's

0:36:18 > 0:36:23office descend nood a bitter mess. Senior Director of Investigations

0:36:23 > 0:36:29ux Jim Coupland took a complaint against Sam Pollock who was given a

0:36:29 > 0:36:34written warning. He resigned the same day. Jim Coupland went on sick

0:36:34 > 0:36:39leave for over a year. He faced disciplinary proceedings after he

0:36:39 > 0:36:45admitted lying to an investigator. We asked Jim Coupland to take part

0:36:45 > 0:36:49in this programme, but he declined saying he would like to engage with

0:36:49 > 0:36:56the issues we raised, but he said medical reasons and legislation

0:36:56 > 0:36:59prevented him from doing so. Tonight, the crisis in the

0:36:59 > 0:37:04ombudsman's office is far from being resolved. Al Hutchinson is

0:37:04 > 0:37:09due to leave next June and his two most senior officials have gone. I

0:37:09 > 0:37:17have learned that just last week, Jim Coupland followed Sam Pollock

0:37:17 > 0:37:21by handing in his resignation, but the ombudsman insists he can fix

0:37:21 > 0:37:28things. I urged Mr Hutchinson to fix what

0:37:28 > 0:37:32was wrong and to fix it quickly. I had urged the minister to support

0:37:32 > 0:37:35the Police Ombudsman in ensuring that it was fixed quickly in the

0:37:35 > 0:37:45interests of Northern Ireland and in the interests of the police

0:37:45 > 0:37:45

0:37:45 > 0:37:50service and in the interests of the office. Now I feel let down by so

0:37:50 > 0:37:57much of what has happened. I would have to say on a personal level and

0:37:57 > 0:38:02on a professional level I think he should resign.

0:38:02 > 0:38:07And resign with immediate effect? Yes.

0:38:07 > 0:38:16Well, those are Sam's words. I disagree with them and I am

0:38:16 > 0:38:19disappointed to hear that. He left the office of his own own violition

0:38:19 > 0:38:27and I'm going to stay to see this through. Whoever sits in this chair

0:38:27 > 0:38:32is going to be subject to all of this, Nuala was before me. I am now.

0:38:32 > 0:38:35The next one will be. So the toxic legacy of the past, because

0:38:35 > 0:38:39politically it has been unresolved, is damaging for the office.

0:38:39 > 0:38:44When Al Hutchinson leaves, the first and Deputy First Ministers