:00:11. > :00:16.We are one of the poorest parts of the UK and big change is coming. In
:00:16. > :00:22.the midst of economic gloom, or we face cutbacks in benefit payments.
:00:22. > :00:27.How dependent do you feel on the welfare state? 100 %. There is no
:00:28. > :00:32.other way I could get an income. The national government cannot
:00:32. > :00:40.afford the current welfare bill, so it needs to find ways to cut it
:00:40. > :00:45.down. But it is hard times for the hard up. You can't buy what you
:00:45. > :00:51.want when you want it. And Northern Ireland's four main churches are
:00:51. > :00:57.worried? It there are no jobs, why are we penalising them for not
:00:57. > :01:03.getting into work? Northern Ireland is facing a Perfect Storm. It is
:01:03. > :01:11.the biggest ever shake-up of our benefit system as the Government
:01:11. > :01:17.slashes welfare spending to tackle the deficit. It also meant to
:01:17. > :01:27.encourage people to work at a time of growing unemployment. Stormont
:01:27. > :01:30.
:01:30. > :01:40.has endorsed the cut, but what they used it and if they do, at what
:01:40. > :01:50.
:01:50. > :01:56.I am visiting a scheme which is keeping families above the
:01:56. > :02:00.breadline. This warehouse in Dunmurry on outskirts of Belfast
:02:01. > :02:04.axe as a fee is centre operated by a church run a charity. Its
:02:04. > :02:11.volunteers are sorting emergency suppliers for delivery to people
:02:11. > :02:14.struggling to get by. People do get benefits, but it does not meet the
:02:14. > :02:20.need of their household. Families are choosing between heating their
:02:20. > :02:25.home and eating. The his initiative is small compared to the scale of
:02:25. > :02:30.our problems, but it helps 60 households in Belfast each week.
:02:30. > :02:34.But food is being parcelled up for collection by individual charities.
:02:34. > :02:39.This place have been busy for the last hour or so. You get a sense
:02:39. > :02:44.that yes, there is a benefit system which helps many people, but in
:02:44. > :02:50.some cases it is simply not enough and many people have become
:02:50. > :02:55.dependent on this kind of charity. People have mortgages and net
:02:55. > :03:02.income. We have had families tried to sell their goods, at their car,
:03:02. > :03:07.put things on eBay, just to get by. -- their car. The entire UK economy
:03:07. > :03:10.is struggling and the downturn shows no sign of ending. The UK is
:03:10. > :03:16.in the red and the government is determined to get the deficit under
:03:16. > :03:26.control. In times of increasing hardship and high inflation, people
:03:26. > :03:30.
:03:30. > :03:34.are feeling the pinch. Pensioners like Alan and May McFarlane have
:03:34. > :03:43.seen the cost of living assault. They live in Rathcoole on the
:03:43. > :03:47.outskirts of north Belfast. haven't got a drop of oil. It is it
:03:47. > :03:53.their existence. People do not realise just how bad it is for
:03:53. > :03:59.pensioners. We do not like to talk about it. It is a taboo subject
:03:59. > :04:05.because if your family hears about it, they turn round and say, we
:04:05. > :04:11.will do this, we will do that. But it is depriving them if they do.
:04:11. > :04:17.This is a single heater. I go to bed early because I think upstairs
:04:17. > :04:23.is warmer. I got up there every night at 6 o'clock and bring a
:04:23. > :04:29.couple of hot water bottles with me. That is just the way it is.
:04:29. > :04:38.Electric has gone up, the oil has gone are, everything has gone up,
:04:38. > :04:43.except the pension. Saying that, they did give us a massive rise of
:04:43. > :04:53.�2. It is in this climate that the government has launched a
:04:53. > :05:00.widespread reform of our benefit system. Westminster is targeting
:05:00. > :05:06.savings in welfare by reforming disability allowances and housing
:05:06. > :05:12.benefit. Under the reforms the total that is being spent could be
:05:12. > :05:17.reduced by 500 million. Some say the full extent of the gloom is
:05:17. > :05:23.only beginning to emerge. There is a gradual a wakening of the impact
:05:23. > :05:28.of all of this. We know that inflation pressures are pushing up
:05:28. > :05:31.bills. Every household is finding it difficult to make ends meet.
:05:31. > :05:39.People have yet to realise the full extent of the cuts that are
:05:39. > :05:44.happening. As well as reducing spend, Westminster is determined to
:05:44. > :05:52.stamp out eight benefits culture. It promises a simpler, fairer
:05:52. > :05:57.system book she -- which aims to get people off benefits. People who
:05:57. > :06:01.think it is a lifestyle choice to be on benefits, it will come to an
:06:01. > :06:08.end. The what could it mean for us? One thing is clear, change will be
:06:08. > :06:13.felt in Northern Ireland where one in every 10 households is totally
:06:13. > :06:23.dependent on benefits. And this is one of them. It is a single-parent
:06:23. > :06:25.
:06:26. > :06:35.household. Are you not meant to be going for a sleep? Kirsty is 20
:06:36. > :06:36.
:06:36. > :06:46.years old, unemployed and raising a young toddler. The cost of
:06:46. > :06:51.childcare is one reason why she is in no hurry to find work. Kirsty
:06:51. > :06:57.lose in a Housing Executive property in Newtown art. She get
:06:57. > :07:07.�550 a month in benefits, but says it is not enough to live on.
:07:07. > :07:10.
:07:10. > :07:18.Newtownards. -- Newtownards. How dependent do you feel on benefits
:07:18. > :07:24.and the welfare state? 100 %. There is no other way I could get an
:07:24. > :07:28.income. I have to get my self in debt with family and staff to meet
:07:28. > :07:34.the needs of Kimberley and myself. The Government is targeting people
:07:34. > :07:39.like Kirsty. To its mind, she typified a welfare state which can
:07:39. > :07:45.sometimes be an easy alternative to working. But she disagrees and is
:07:45. > :07:47.going to night school to improve her chances in the job market.
:07:47. > :07:52.got a standard jobs with no qualifications, I would be worse
:07:52. > :08:02.off than what I am at the minute. By the time I was to pay for
:08:02. > :08:09.childcare, rents, essentials and everything else, if you are making
:08:09. > :08:13.200 a week, �70 will be gone on rent. After childcare, there is
:08:13. > :08:18.nothing. Do you get annoyed when you hear people talking about
:08:18. > :08:23.benefits punchers. Yes. Don't get me wrong, some people do it, but
:08:23. > :08:28.not everyone and we should not be stereotyped. They do not know how
:08:28. > :08:35.we are struggling. Hard times are really hard. They will not have a
:08:35. > :08:39.clue if they had bobbin on benefits. Little Kimberly was born into
:08:39. > :08:45.financial hardship. Just like her mother, her father is also
:08:45. > :08:53.supported by benefits. Her father, who has two other children, is on
:08:53. > :08:57.good terms with Kirsty, but lives separately. He says he's
:08:57. > :09:05.jobseeker's allowance pays hint sixes �7 every fortnight. Had he
:09:06. > :09:14.been living on benefits for a long time? - Mark �67. A for most of my
:09:14. > :09:24.life. How old are you now? 24th. ever since you left school? More or
:09:24. > :09:25.
:09:25. > :09:31.less. The money from the dull, you cannot live off of it. I would
:09:31. > :09:36.rather be working. I have got three children. I would rather be out
:09:36. > :09:46.working to support my children and myself rather than the state
:09:46. > :09:48.
:09:48. > :09:58.supporting them. The dull, it just isn't enough money to live off. --
:09:58. > :10:04.
:10:04. > :10:09.The statistics show how higher our reliance on benefits is in Northern
:10:09. > :10:13.Ireland. One in seven children live in a household where no-one is in
:10:13. > :10:21.employment. The number of households without an adult in a
:10:22. > :10:27.job stand at 121,000. Plans to reform the benefit system includes
:10:27. > :10:31.the creation of a universal credit. A welfare reform bill currently
:10:31. > :10:36.before Parliament will accelerate changes. The full impact is two
:10:36. > :10:43.years ago, but already reductions in social security are biting and
:10:43. > :10:49.it is uncertain how we will absorb the cuts, given hour level of
:10:49. > :10:52.poverty. Eileen Everson is an expert on the welfare state.
:10:52. > :10:58.think Northern Ireland is in the gravest position I have seen for
:10:58. > :11:02.many years. We are facing a Perfect Storm. First of all, we have got
:11:02. > :11:12.climate change. The prospect of another harsh winter. Secondly, we
:11:12. > :11:13.
:11:13. > :11:18.are still in recession and there is rising unemployment. Thirdly, the
:11:19. > :11:23.cut in benefits. It is a recipe for disaster. Others believe belt-
:11:23. > :11:33.tightening reform is necessary and argue it there is evidence the
:11:33. > :11:35.
:11:35. > :11:38.Even from the research that we have done, you will see people when they
:11:38. > :11:41.give you figures for how much money they would need to come back to
:11:41. > :11:45.work, you are talking �300, maybe �400 a week in some cases, because
:11:45. > :11:49.that is the equivalent money that they are able to get on the benefit
:11:49. > :11:52.system. Now, if we think about that, we have a society here where it is
:11:52. > :11:54.possible to get more money not working than it is in the minimum
:11:54. > :11:57.wage. The financial reality is that the national government can't
:11:57. > :12:01.afford the current welfare bill, so it needs to find ways, quite
:12:01. > :12:03.urgently, to get that cost down. One cost is specifically high on
:12:03. > :12:10.the hit list. It's Disability Living Allowance, or DLA, which
:12:10. > :12:13.last year in Northern Ireland set the Exchequer back �753 million.
:12:13. > :12:19.It's claimed by one in every 10 people, the highest proportion of
:12:19. > :12:22.the population anywhere in the UK. Primarily for this reason, the
:12:22. > :12:32.Institute for Fiscal Studies predicts we will be among the worst
:12:32. > :12:33.
:12:33. > :12:37.hit by reform measures in the years ahead. And the job of selling this
:12:37. > :12:40.benefits revolution is underway. I've about 20 minutes to outline
:12:40. > :12:43.the basic plans for the Welfare Reform Bill in Northern Ireland and
:12:43. > :12:50.I'm sure you appreciate that this Bill represents one of the largest
:12:50. > :12:53.pieces of legislation enacted in Great Britain and Northern Ireland.
:12:53. > :12:56.This event is organised by campaigners who want to protect DLA,
:12:56. > :12:58.which will be re-versioned as a Personal Independence Payment.
:12:58. > :13:01.Fewer people will qualify because of reassessments, in particular
:13:01. > :13:08.those with mental health problems who make up our largest proportion
:13:08. > :13:11.of DLA claimants. I've come here to find out more about the concerns of
:13:12. > :13:21.people like Alan and Heather Owens, both of whom are blind yet have to
:13:22. > :13:27.
:13:27. > :13:32.go through a process of re-testing. We are proud dignified people. This
:13:32. > :13:38.helps us to the proud, independent lives. I would like to say that Mr
:13:38. > :13:42.Cameron talks about benefits not being permanent. I would like to
:13:42. > :13:44.say our disabilities are permanent. The Coalition Government has
:13:44. > :13:48.announced last year in the Budget statement last year that it
:13:48. > :13:52.intended to see a reduction up to 20% in the expenses and costs of
:13:52. > :13:55.DLA. I'm not sure if that remains the policy intention, but they
:13:55. > :14:01.certainly are looking to ensure that the resources are focused on
:14:01. > :14:04.those most in need. At home in Belfast, Alan and Heather are
:14:04. > :14:12.uncertain if they will be worse off under the new benefit. But they are
:14:12. > :14:17.worried and have joined a national campaign called the hardest hit.
:14:17. > :14:21.went to London to lobby MPs at Westminster. I think if these
:14:21. > :14:27.proposals come into place there are a lot of people who are going to be
:14:27. > :14:34.very, very wary regarding their benefits. They could be vastly
:14:34. > :14:38.reduced, or even some of them could be removed. Yes, I worry. It is a
:14:38. > :14:43.big fear factor, it is a big unknown factor. It is the not
:14:43. > :14:47.knowing what's going to happen. It's being reassessed again. I
:14:47. > :14:50.would be very nervous, although I have nothing at all to hide. But I
:14:50. > :14:53.am very nervous in going through the process again because I have
:14:53. > :14:56.gone through it once. And, you know, it is the thought of answering
:14:56. > :15:03.questions, filling forms in, all this. It's just basically the fear
:15:03. > :15:09.of the unknown. We are not spongers. We are not chancers. We have a
:15:09. > :15:12.genuine disability. Some people are losing out already.
:15:12. > :15:14.Patricia Lyons works on the frontline of debt crisis. She's an
:15:14. > :15:24.advisor at the Citizens Advice Bureau on Belfast's Springfield
:15:24. > :15:37.
:15:37. > :15:40.Road. Hiya, Stephen. Are you in for your appointment? Take a wee seat.
:15:40. > :15:48.Almost half of the people helped through this office rely on
:15:48. > :15:54.benefits. I'll just give you these. I mean these forms are just a
:15:54. > :15:56.minefield. In my opinion, it's designed to actually confuse you
:15:56. > :16:00.and without these people, well, we'd just be going nowhere.
:16:00. > :16:03.workload has increased as a result of one of the benefit cuts already
:16:03. > :16:06.introduced. No, at the minute you are not entitled to any Housing
:16:06. > :16:10.Benefit at all. Your income is too high. OK. Sorry about that. No
:16:10. > :16:13.probs, 'Bye. The rates of housing benefit have been cut, so they have.
:16:13. > :16:19.And it is leaving them massive shortfalls for people to make up
:16:19. > :16:22.the rent. And where do they make it up? Because private landlords are
:16:22. > :16:30.increasing the rents year on year, they are not decreasing them. It is
:16:30. > :16:34.just a vicious circle at the minute. That change to Housing Benefit
:16:34. > :16:39.caused a stir at Stormont recently. It's all to do with the concept
:16:39. > :16:41.that benefit entitlements are identical throughout the UK. It's
:16:41. > :16:45.known as the principle of parity, but of the devolved administrations
:16:45. > :16:53.only Stormont has the autonomy to break it. It dates right back to
:16:53. > :16:56.the formation of Northern Ireland. So say, for example, the Assembly
:16:56. > :17:03.decided to make a particular payment more generous, or indeed
:17:03. > :17:06.ignore a benefit cut. Well, the cost of that difference would have
:17:06. > :17:12.to be found from within the Executive's block grant, not by the
:17:12. > :17:17.Treasury in London. Economist Esmond Birnie was once an MLA and a
:17:17. > :17:20.special advisor to an Executive Minister. The logic eventually may
:17:20. > :17:23.be that to some degree we begin to run our own system of social
:17:23. > :17:25.security and welfare benefits to, after all, reflect our own
:17:25. > :17:34.particular local circumstances which may not be, and certainly are
:17:34. > :17:38.not, identical to those in the South East of England. But it has
:17:38. > :17:41.to be said this is a big ask. And it will be very challenging, and it
:17:41. > :17:46.is ultimately a political decision and a political dilemma for the
:17:46. > :17:52.Executive in Stormont. DUP Minister Nelson McCausland is responsible
:17:52. > :17:57.for Social Security. He is the man who could drive any move to go it
:17:57. > :17:59.alone, but three weeks ago he backed the status quo. In the
:17:59. > :18:02.Assembly, Sinn Fein pushed to reject changing Housing Benefit but
:18:02. > :18:10.was rebuffed because it would have taken �9 million of Stormont money
:18:10. > :18:15.to fund annually. Parity is not rigid. Members should not treat the
:18:15. > :18:20.issue as though it is. It can be contested without being broken, and
:18:20. > :18:23.that is what we need to do. obvious consequences for the
:18:23. > :18:30.Northern Ireland block if parity were breached cannot be
:18:30. > :18:32.underestimated. Without parity and the associated funding, the
:18:32. > :18:39.Northern Ireland Social Security system would probably be
:18:40. > :18:45.unsustainable. So, the Minister has ruled out using Stormont's unique
:18:45. > :18:51.power to break with parity. But there is something Nelson
:18:51. > :18:54.McCausland is prepared to do, that's fight fraud. His department
:18:54. > :19:02.is cracking down on benefit cheats, with more than 50 convictions last
:19:02. > :19:05.month alone. Fraud seems to get us exercised. Members of the public
:19:05. > :19:10.were behind a third of tip-offs made about swindlers to the Social
:19:10. > :19:15.Security Agency last year. The sums involved added up to nearly �20
:19:15. > :19:23.million. Big money, but yet it's less than 0.5% of our total benefit
:19:23. > :19:26.spend. Nelson McCausland has his own blog and on it he says that
:19:26. > :19:31.welfare reform is one of the biggest issues facing Northern
:19:31. > :19:36.Ireland. He's not short of opinion, but he declined the opportunity to
:19:36. > :19:39.be interviewed by Spotlight. We wanted to talk to him about the
:19:39. > :19:44.issue of parity in particular. Instead, his office sent us a
:19:44. > :19:47.lengthy statement. In it he says he is very conscious of people's
:19:47. > :19:50.concerns. He believes that the Bill does afford Northern Ireland the
:19:50. > :19:52.opportunity to reduce the number of people dependent on benefits and,
:19:52. > :20:02.crucially, he says, that breaking parity could have serious
:20:02. > :20:09.
:20:09. > :20:12.implications for Northern Ireland. He said that breaking parity could
:20:12. > :20:21.even lead to a situation where a claimant in Newcastle County Down
:20:21. > :20:24.could get less than another claimant in Newcastle and England.
:20:24. > :20:27.We can reveal concerns from another quarter. Our four main church
:20:27. > :20:29.leaders recently met Secretary of State Owen Paterson and told him
:20:29. > :20:39.the cutbacks would create greater hardship. In a joint statement made
:20:39. > :20:57.
:20:57. > :21:02.This cleric explains the thinking behind the meeting with Mr Paterson
:21:02. > :21:04.two weeks ago. Nobody wants the lifeboat of welfare to become a
:21:04. > :21:07.lifestyle, a permanent lifestyle for anybody, but here in Northern
:21:07. > :21:13.Ireland that lifeboat has over 100,000 children on income poverty
:21:13. > :21:17.in it, with their families. It has the highest levels of rural poverty
:21:17. > :21:22.fuel poverty and so on in the UK. Lets create opportunity, that's the
:21:22. > :21:26.challenge. If there are no jobs for these people to go to, why are we
:21:26. > :21:29.penalising them for not getting to work? There is no reason why
:21:29. > :21:31.welfare reform, which is a welcome development, shouldn't be sensitive
:21:32. > :21:35.to regional needs, not just in Northern Ireland, but in other
:21:35. > :21:37.parts of the United Kingdom. So, our politicians, either in
:21:37. > :21:40.Westminster or locally, should be lobbying for that and looking
:21:40. > :21:45.creatively at how they can address the needs of the incredible number
:21:45. > :21:49.of very vulnerable people here in Northern Ireland on welfare. Could
:21:49. > :21:53.Northern Ireland not argue that it's a special case? Therefore, it
:21:53. > :21:57.needs more money, not less? That's an argument that's been trotted out
:21:57. > :22:01.a lot and I have to be quite frank and say I don't think it can make a
:22:01. > :22:05.special case. I don't think it can make that case. If you spend any
:22:05. > :22:07.time in the North East of England or in Wales or in other parts of
:22:07. > :22:11.the economy there are places in just as much difficulty and
:22:11. > :22:14.economic challenge as we have here today. And we have almost got used
:22:14. > :22:17.to the idea that we have some sort of special dispensation. The honest
:22:17. > :22:20.answer is, we don't. And if we think we need to do something
:22:20. > :22:23.differently it's in our heads and not on the Westminster Government's.
:22:23. > :22:26.But our politicians stand accused of being uninspired, of failing to
:22:26. > :22:29.explore other practical ways to help. I think the Executive and the
:22:29. > :22:32.MLAs, the Assembly as a whole, need to understand what's going on, and
:22:33. > :22:36.then think about what they can do to alleviate the hardship we face.
:22:36. > :22:39.If we have a very harsh winter, the principle of parity does not mean
:22:39. > :22:43.we couldn't open up leisure centres and provide places for people who
:22:43. > :22:50.are elderly or disabled or whatever to go to so they are in a place
:22:50. > :22:52.that's safe, that's warm, where they can get a hot meal. While
:22:52. > :22:58.Stormont appears to feel helpless in the face of Westminster, the
:22:58. > :23:01.blow from benefit cuts is beginning to affect everyday lives. This is
:23:01. > :23:07.Tullycarnet in East Belfast, where the community centre is a venue for
:23:07. > :23:16.benefits advice clinics. Adrian Glackin is well-placed to offer a
:23:16. > :23:20.frank analysis. I would invite Mr McCausland to come to any of my
:23:20. > :23:23.advice clinics and actually see what it is like on the front line.
:23:23. > :23:26.I accept that the deficit budget does need to be reduced and the
:23:26. > :23:29.benefit budget probably is too high. But is it right that the Government
:23:29. > :23:32.save the money at the expense of the most vulnerable? That is the
:23:32. > :23:36.problem that I have with the benefit cuts. It's not the fact
:23:36. > :23:40.that the money needs to be saved. If it is in a fair way, and its
:23:40. > :23:43.phased in over a period, that people do not suffer, but at a time
:23:43. > :23:46.when inflation is now 5.2% and the cost of utilities has increased
:23:46. > :23:49.massively, and it's up maybe 30% in terms of things like electricity,
:23:49. > :23:52.and benefits are being cut, then individuals who are on benefits are
:23:52. > :23:56.being squeezed both sides. They are finding it hard to get benefits and
:23:56. > :23:59.they are also finding it hard to pay their bills, which they need to
:23:59. > :24:02.pay as a result of the benefit cuts. Our recovery from recession will
:24:02. > :24:05.lag behind the rest of the UK, costing more jobs. Unemployment has
:24:05. > :24:14.been rising. The recent figures show more than 61,000 people
:24:14. > :24:17.claimed unemployment benefit in September. It's going to be a hard
:24:17. > :24:25.cycle to break. I've come to a project in West Belfast to meet
:24:25. > :24:31.some longer-term unemployed. They're attending a course designed
:24:31. > :24:35.to boost their confidence and self- esteem. You have been out of work
:24:35. > :24:43.for about four years? Over four years now. Existing on benefits, is
:24:43. > :24:50.it an easy life? No, it's hard. Especially when you are used to
:24:50. > :24:54.your own independence and bringing in your own money. It's very hard.
:24:54. > :25:00.But you just have to get on with it. It wouldn't bother me at all taking
:25:00. > :25:03.a lower paid job. Just to get back to work again. But there are no
:25:03. > :25:10.jobs out there, virtually none, and if there is, there are usually
:25:10. > :25:14.about 300 or 400 in for the one job. Earlier on we had a chat about
:25:14. > :25:16.perceptions of the unemployed people. The mentors run these
:25:16. > :25:21.workshops regularly. They say the overwhelming mood is one of
:25:21. > :25:25.frustration. People genuinely don't want to live on benefits. I have
:25:25. > :25:28.yet to meet somebody who says, look, this is a brilliant way to be. I
:25:28. > :25:31.love this life! You don't hear those stories. These people
:25:31. > :25:34.genuinely want to get out and get into employment, but for whatever
:25:34. > :25:36.reason, and they are multiple, they haven't been given the support or
:25:36. > :25:41.backing. Whether that be financial and just through training, they
:25:41. > :25:45.haven't been given that support. The Government wants its benefits
:25:45. > :25:49.reform to encourage people back into work. But the timing couldn't
:25:49. > :25:52.be worse. The predictions are that the unemployment rate is going to
:25:52. > :25:56.increase. People are going to lose their jobs and become reliant on
:25:56. > :26:00.the benefits system and they may get a shock. I mean, our advisors
:26:00. > :26:06.hear on a daily basis for people that are new to the benefits system,
:26:06. > :26:10.they would hear clients say to them, is this it? But the squeeze is
:26:10. > :26:15.wider still. The bigger picture is there will be a lot less money in
:26:15. > :26:18.the local economy. The coalition in London is talking about reducing
:26:18. > :26:23.benefit spend in Great Britain by about �10 billion or more over the
:26:23. > :26:27.next four years. If you read that across to Northern Ireland, in very
:26:28. > :26:30.crude terms that could be �400 to �500 million per annum. Now that
:26:30. > :26:33.would be quite a challenge to the Northern Ireland economy in terms
:26:33. > :26:35.of reduction in, obviously the most notably, spending power and income
:26:35. > :26:43.for households and individuals, reading across into general
:26:43. > :26:48.conditions in the economy. Back at the charity food centre, they can
:26:48. > :26:54.only do so much. A bit like the welfare system, they are feeling
:26:54. > :26:58.the strain. We are finding people from every part of Belfast, and
:26:58. > :27:02.actually every sort of social group. We have had families that you would
:27:02. > :27:05.have probably called middle class who have found themselves in need.
:27:05. > :27:08.People who have never been on the benefits system before, people who
:27:08. > :27:14.have worked all their lives and through redundancy and through
:27:14. > :27:18.changes in lifestyle circumstances are in desperate need. At least the
:27:18. > :27:22.pension is safe from cuts and the Winter Fuel Grant will soon come to
:27:22. > :27:27.the rescue of Jimmy and May McFarland. But there's a catch.
:27:27. > :27:30.They'll be getting less thanks to the Chancellor's budget in March.
:27:30. > :27:34.And you're simply waiting it till you get your Winter Fuel Allowance?
:27:34. > :27:38.I am waiting until I get my Winter Fuel Allowance and then I will put
:27:38. > :27:45.that to what money we have saved to get a larger amount of oil at the
:27:45. > :27:50.best price we can. That's just where we are at the moment.
:27:50. > :27:53.long will that last you? That will probably last me, maybe with a bit
:27:53. > :27:58.of luck and if the winter is anything like last year, that will
:27:58. > :28:04.probably maybe last me up until about February. And then there will
:28:04. > :28:09.still be a lot of the winter to come, I would think. Back to square
:28:09. > :28:14.one. Back to square one, again. That's just the way it is for
:28:14. > :28:19.pensioners. You just don't look that far ahead. You just take every
:28:19. > :28:22.day as it comes. So, too, does Kirsty McChesney.
:28:22. > :28:28.Benefits dependency can affect a family generation to generation,
:28:28. > :28:31.but she has ambitions, both for herself and for Kimberley. Would
:28:31. > :28:34.you be concerned or worried that you will become dependent on
:28:34. > :28:41.benefits? There is a lot of talk about welfare, benefit dependency,
:28:41. > :28:45.being how that's all people know. No, I'm not worried that I will be
:28:45. > :28:48.on benefit for life. I don't want to be on benefit for life and I
:28:48. > :28:53.will make sure I am not. I will hopefully have some qualifications
:28:53. > :29:03.behind me to get a job to provide for myself and Kimberly. But at the
:29:03. > :29:06.
:29:06. > :29:09.minute it's out of the question. Nelson McCausland has improved at