NAMA - Safe as Houses

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0:00:03 > 0:00:07What's next for our battered property market? For the life of

0:00:07 > 0:00:11everyone's mortgage, there will be no (inaudible) The crash has handed

0:00:11 > 0:00:17control to the Dublin government. Will their need for cash tip us

0:00:17 > 0:00:27into free-fall? This is not just about rescuing greedy property

0:00:27 > 0:00:47

0:00:47 > 0:00:51developers. I think we are entering Property, land, it means so much to

0:00:51 > 0:00:58us here, but after the biggest crash in living memory, it's

0:00:58 > 0:01:05actually worth so much less. Prices have been cut in half. We thought

0:01:05 > 0:01:11we had valuable assets. Instead, we've just got mountains of debt.

0:01:11 > 0:01:15Tonight, I'm on a journey into the heart of our property market. The

0:01:15 > 0:01:20crash is damaging more than house prices, but jobs and opportunities

0:01:20 > 0:01:23too. Northern Ireland borrowed big. Thanks to the crash, Dublin has all

0:01:23 > 0:01:33the IOUs. What happens if they come to collect? You thought things

0:01:33 > 0:01:42

0:01:42 > 0:01:48couldn't get any worse, you need to Our journey starts with a chunk of

0:01:48 > 0:01:52property that has an interesting pedigree. I always like to get

0:01:52 > 0:01:55dressed up for special occasions, these boots are about to set foot

0:01:55 > 0:02:00on one of Northern Ireland's most special pieces of property. When

0:02:00 > 0:02:06this land came on the market in 2007, after generations in one

0:02:06 > 0:02:14family, it causeed quite a stir, tripling in price, in just nine

0:02:14 > 0:02:18months. Can you see why? This ground sold for an incredible �1.7

0:02:18 > 0:02:25million. It was intended to become a housing development. It never

0:02:25 > 0:02:35even had planning permission. million. For one acre of land.

0:02:35 > 0:02:37

0:02:37 > 0:02:43You bought it four years after that for? �94,000. That is a drop of

0:02:43 > 0:02:48something around 94%? Yeah. It is. That is a serious drop in price?

0:02:48 > 0:02:53is. Hard to believe. When you look around the place, the grass, the

0:02:53 > 0:02:58danger of drowning. Hard to see how you could have marketed it at �1.7

0:02:58 > 0:03:03million? Yeah. The banks were pushing prices up. Everybody was

0:03:03 > 0:03:08being silly. Yet, when you look at it, if you were to take the fact it

0:03:08 > 0:03:15dropped from �1.7 million to �94,000 over the space of 4 months.

0:03:15 > 0:03:19A drop of �33,000 a month. As we are standing here it could still be

0:03:19 > 0:03:23falling in value. It could be worth nothing by January? It's worth

0:03:23 > 0:03:26something to us. No matter what we paid for. It an acre of land the

0:03:26 > 0:03:30market value as is today. What do you want to do with it? We are

0:03:30 > 0:03:33hoping to develop it. We have no rush to do so. We can sit on it.

0:03:33 > 0:03:38See what the market does. We have ideas and we are putting them

0:03:38 > 0:03:41together at present. Do you think it will be worth �1 million again?

0:03:42 > 0:03:48Always that possibility. We have the time. We believe it's at rock

0:03:48 > 0:03:51bottom at the minute. Who can tell. Who can tell? Is there worse to

0:03:51 > 0:04:01come? These questions are critical to the future wellbeing of Northern

0:04:01 > 0:04:04

0:04:04 > 0:04:09Ireland. The thing is, we may not Welcome to this house. It is for

0:04:09 > 0:04:13sale. These surroundings were reckoned to be under a shade of �1

0:04:13 > 0:04:19million. This is the dining room. lovely room to be in for

0:04:19 > 0:04:26entertaining friends and family. The estate agent's brochure tells

0:04:26 > 0:04:31us that this five bed roomed house redefines classical elegance. You

0:04:31 > 0:04:36are hoping the floor will add to the value. It was left over from a

0:04:36 > 0:04:40church restoration project. They had enough to do this floor.

0:04:40 > 0:04:45also defines the unprecedented scale of our property crash.

0:04:45 > 0:04:50guess, if we put it on six months before we did it might have gone

0:04:50 > 0:04:54quite quickly. Our timing was a little bit late. What is it on for

0:04:54 > 0:04:58now, what was it on for at the beginning? It started off at �950.

0:04:58 > 0:05:03It wasn't a figure picked out of the air as such. It was very much,

0:05:03 > 0:05:09this is what is being offered. Now, we are pretty much half that. We

0:05:09 > 0:05:14are just under the �500 stamp duty threshold. This is the property

0:05:14 > 0:05:18market in Northern Ireland today. Sales are slow, while prices have

0:05:18 > 0:05:25been falling fast. Alan and Dot aren't in negative equity. That is

0:05:25 > 0:05:28when you owe more in debt than your house is worth. Brian is. Property

0:05:28 > 0:05:33in most ordinary people's life is their security. You are going out,

0:05:33 > 0:05:38coming home at night to your property. I even would see it as a

0:05:38 > 0:05:42long-term part of your pension of the later life you would have

0:05:42 > 0:05:47equity to get you through difficult times. You know, so the fear of

0:05:47 > 0:05:51losing all that, it's like just presenting a black hole to you.

0:05:51 > 0:05:56Brian owes the bank �60,000 more than his house is worth. The crunch

0:05:56 > 0:06:05came when he lost his job and couldn't make his mortgage payments.

0:06:05 > 0:06:09I was in a good, secure employment. With a satisfactory salary, able to

0:06:09 > 0:06:15maintain a good lifestyle it's amazing how quick it can change.

0:06:15 > 0:06:21From being totally secure, and being able to have a life, to

0:06:21 > 0:06:25feeling, where do you go? Where is the way out here? What's in front

0:06:25 > 0:06:29of you? What does the future hold? At the moment, to me, it just looks

0:06:29 > 0:06:33black. He expects the bank to take the house from him in a couple of

0:06:33 > 0:06:40months. They will sell it, but that won't pay off the mortgage. Leaving

0:06:40 > 0:06:44Brian to find the remaining �60,000. The fact of there being a shortfall

0:06:44 > 0:06:48on the property. Does that mean I will end up in bankruptcy because

0:06:48 > 0:06:51of shortfalls? Where does it actually stop? It won't stop with

0:06:51 > 0:06:56the repossession of the property. Obviously, there will be a

0:06:56 > 0:07:01shortfall. Where does this nightmare stop? Brian is just one

0:07:01 > 0:07:06of 44,000 households in Northern Ireland in negative equity. That is

0:07:06 > 0:07:11equivalent to every house household in Newry, Coleraine, Ballymena,

0:07:11 > 0:07:15Antrim Ando ma combined. If they are hoping for a rise in prices to

0:07:15 > 0:07:19help they are likely to be disappointed. For the life of

0:07:19 > 0:07:23everyone's mortgage there will be no recovery. Mortgages typically

0:07:23 > 0:07:27last 20, 25 years. There will be no recovery in the lifetime of any of

0:07:27 > 0:07:31the mortgages that currently exist. That is hard to take in for people

0:07:31 > 0:07:37who grew up with the idea that property goes up, safe as houses,

0:07:37 > 0:07:42what happened to that? Only thing safe is the bricks and mortar, the

0:07:42 > 0:07:46asset value is not safe. That is it. That one view. Others are more

0:07:46 > 0:07:53positive. There is some evidence buyers are returning, if the price

0:07:53 > 0:07:57is right. I've come to Donegal Square, the commercial heart of

0:07:57 > 0:08:03Belfast. In these lean times this estate agency has gone back to

0:08:03 > 0:08:09selling property by auction. In September, it raised �2.3 million.

0:08:09 > 0:08:14A far cry from 2007 when their previous auction sold property

0:08:14 > 0:08:20worth �82 million in a single morning. Chalk and cheese in terms

0:08:20 > 0:08:30of the lot size and the number of lots. We would have 60 plus lots.

0:08:30 > 0:08:31

0:08:31 > 0:08:36Figures from �500,000, we are down to �50,000 up to �300 ,000. How are

0:08:36 > 0:08:41you doing? They are getting ready for another auction. Most ever the

0:08:41 > 0:08:46properties are repossessions which are on the up. Misery for

0:08:47 > 0:08:51homeowners. The bell there is quite significant. They ring it whenever

0:08:51 > 0:08:55there is a deal done in this office. You can imagine the boom times it

0:08:55 > 0:08:58was being rung constantly. I hear there are some people in this

0:08:58 > 0:09:04office who have never heard it chime. To buy property you need

0:09:05 > 0:09:07money. That used to come from banks. Not any more. Bank finance for

0:09:07 > 0:09:12almost anything in property at the moment is difficult to obtain. What

0:09:12 > 0:09:18we are actually doing, what the auction is doing, is, next, looking

0:09:18 > 0:09:22for cash purchasers. I have �20, you would need more to buy one of

0:09:22 > 0:09:26these properties? �20 would be a start, but I think, yes, you would

0:09:26 > 0:09:30need more. In our upcoming auction there would be one or two lot sizes

0:09:30 > 0:09:33that are surprisingly small. If you clear your credit card you might be

0:09:33 > 0:09:39able to buy something. Talking about that finance. What was it

0:09:39 > 0:09:43like during the boom, trying to get finance, what is it like today?

0:09:43 > 0:09:482005 to 2007, if we had a client who wanted to buy an investment

0:09:48 > 0:09:54property for �10 million, he could go round the Square by lunchtime

0:09:54 > 0:10:00have six offers to fund the purchase of that. Anywhere up to

0:10:00 > 0:10:07maybe 90% or 95% of the requirement. Today, the same client could walk

0:10:07 > 0:10:11around with an e -- equally good asset and not receive an offer.

0:10:11 > 0:10:15That is the difference. Land, land, land was the banking mantra until

0:10:15 > 0:10:20the banks ran out of money. When they ran out of money, so did

0:10:20 > 0:10:24everyone else. The loans couldn't be re-paid. The banks were bust. To

0:10:24 > 0:10:28get some idea of the sheer scale of economic carnage causeed by the

0:10:28 > 0:10:33crash on the island of Ireland you only have to look around at the

0:10:33 > 0:10:41banks and their accounts on this square. To the north, First Trust

0:10:41 > 0:10:48and it is parent AIB, nationalised by the Irish government. 14 billion

0:10:48 > 0:10:55gone. To the south, Bank of Ireland, 9 billion, disappeared. To the east,

0:10:55 > 0:11:02Ulster Bank, now owned by the UK taxpayer. Well, they have waved

0:11:02 > 0:11:05goodbye to.2 billion. To the west, Northern Bank. It's Danish-owned.

0:11:05 > 0:11:11It's accounts reflect a local picture. It was famously robbed by

0:11:11 > 0:11:14the IRA in 2005, in the biggest UK bank heist ever, they could have

0:11:14 > 0:11:23returned every month for a year- and-a-half before they would get

0:11:23 > 0:11:28close to what went out the door in the crash. It robbed Northern of

0:11:28 > 0:11:33�577 million. The banks handed out money like there was no tomorrow,

0:11:33 > 0:11:37but tomorrow came. It's a zombie banking system. It has the

0:11:37 > 0:11:40appearances of a normal banking system but not the practice. In

0:11:40 > 0:11:45that, there is no serious lending going on in Northern Ireland.

0:11:45 > 0:11:51does it look like they are operating just fine? They are on

0:11:51 > 0:11:56life support from the taxpayer. On a very, very large scale. The whole

0:11:56 > 0:12:03structure is maintained by British and Irish governments. When the

0:12:03 > 0:12:07crisis hit the UK government moved quickly to sure up banks like RBS,

0:12:07 > 0:12:11owners of Ulster Bank. The Irish government had a particular problem

0:12:11 > 0:12:15and a particular solution. The problem was, the scale of the crash

0:12:15 > 0:12:20and the amount of toxic debt in such a small financial system. The

0:12:20 > 0:12:26Irish banks simply had no money to get them working again the Irish

0:12:26 > 0:12:29government decided to take out of all of the bad loans into a so-

0:12:29 > 0:12:34called bad bank, it's called National Asset Management Agency,

0:12:34 > 0:12:37Nama for short. It's the biggest player in town. You won't see it

0:12:37 > 0:12:42around here. They are a major influence into what happens. How

0:12:42 > 0:12:44they decide to approach dealing with property and the re-- recovery

0:12:44 > 0:12:49of debt will be important no everyone in Northern Ireland over

0:12:49 > 0:12:54the next few years. An Irish government agency became the key

0:12:54 > 0:13:02player in property here. Nama took control of office blocks, housing

0:13:02 > 0:13:06developments and undeveloped land totalling �3.35 billion. It would

0:13:06 > 0:13:16be enough to pay off completely everybody's mortgage who had bought

0:13:16 > 0:13:16

0:13:16 > 0:13:19a home here over the last four It is such a big agency, with 74

0:13:20 > 0:13:26billion the nominal value of the loans on its books, that it needs

0:13:26 > 0:13:31to realise it almost is the property market in Ireland. �3.5

0:13:31 > 0:13:36billion is a helluva lot of assets to earn him a very small market

0:13:36 > 0:13:46like Northern Ireland, so what they do we have a huge influence on the

0:13:46 > 0:13:49

0:13:49 > 0:13:55property market there. Welcome to NAMA town, County Down. Is this a

0:13:55 > 0:14:02glimpse of Northern Ireland's future? A place where the Dublin

0:14:02 > 0:14:08government effectively calls the shots in their property market.

0:14:08 > 0:14:12Much of Sam Thompson's money came from the banks in Dublin. In 2007,

0:14:12 > 0:14:22Thomson told the Council of his plans for new housing estates, a

0:14:22 > 0:14:23

0:14:23 > 0:14:30bypass and a new school, but NAMA's debts drag down his grand designs

0:14:30 > 0:14:34for this town. The current financial situation has put all of

0:14:34 > 0:14:38that on hold which have an impact not only in terms of industrial

0:14:38 > 0:14:45development on the outskirts of the town but also in terms of high-spec

0:14:45 > 0:14:48and modern schools. You are talking about something that is affecting

0:14:48 > 0:14:54people's education and employment prospects. It has a major impact.

0:14:54 > 0:14:59The problem comes when a property developer gets into the situation

0:14:59 > 0:15:03that Sam Thompson is in. When it is in receivership, there is a

0:15:03 > 0:15:09different perspective. A Sam's debts are tied up between several

0:15:09 > 0:15:13banks but because none much moved first, they sealed his fate. They

0:15:13 > 0:15:18started selling dozens of his properties the summer at knock-down

0:15:18 > 0:15:28prices. Unfinished flats here could be had for �40,000 but the real

0:15:28 > 0:15:29

0:15:29 > 0:15:32discounts came at the top end of the market. Assam Thomson property

0:15:32 > 0:15:39offered at �1.2 million sold earlier this year but for a third

0:15:39 > 0:15:43of its original price. And this luxury house was originally 1.3 �5

0:15:43 > 0:15:52million. When it went back on the market two weeks ago, it was left

0:15:52 > 0:15:56than half that. Again, there is a web of bands involved alongside

0:15:56 > 0:16:00NAMA, but when they combined to offer property, that adds fuel to

0:16:00 > 0:16:07the sale, and the neighbours can only watch their tidy profit go up

0:16:07 > 0:16:12in smoke. This couple live yards from the Sam Thompson's Homes,

0:16:12 > 0:16:17which have driven down the asking price of their home. When it was

0:16:17 > 0:16:21first on the market, in their initial ownership, they were

0:16:21 > 0:16:24significantly well above our own price so we thought on the back of

0:16:24 > 0:16:29the marketing that was going on with those properties, perhaps it

0:16:29 > 0:16:34might attract somebody to come and look at our House, but since this

0:16:34 > 0:16:41situation has taken hold, they have come in beneath us, so we have been

0:16:41 > 0:16:44on an island and in suspended animation. This is a metre range

0:16:44 > 0:16:49property in the scheme of some of the mansions that have been built

0:16:49 > 0:16:52in the area -- mid-range property. When you get back level of houses

0:16:52 > 0:16:58coming on the market at the seriously discounted price, it is

0:16:58 > 0:17:04pretty much impossible to compete. Selling to a low is the problem for

0:17:04 > 0:17:07this couple. Not selling at all is the problem near by. A potential

0:17:07 > 0:17:17manufacturing investment that would bring jobs is stalled because the

0:17:17 > 0:17:19

0:17:19 > 0:17:24investor can't find a plot of land that is tied up in NAMA. We know

0:17:24 > 0:17:28someone who is interested in a plot of land and we have pointed them in

0:17:28 > 0:17:34the direction of the receivership. Are we talking about a company that

0:17:34 > 0:17:43could employ people? Yes, and manufacturing company that is

0:17:43 > 0:17:47interested in land. But they have a different set of priorities, NAMA.

0:17:47 > 0:17:53Yes, they don't want to send it to several individual people and break

0:17:53 > 0:18:02it up. You are talking to specific examples where this is affecting

0:18:02 > 0:18:09employment prospects in the area. That is correct. Mall developers

0:18:09 > 0:18:14will definitely go bust as NAMA takes decisions. Many businesses

0:18:14 > 0:18:17who dabbled in property could also go under. They used cash flow from

0:18:17 > 0:18:22the companies to borrow money to fund their property deals. Now

0:18:22 > 0:18:31those loans could kill or otherwise healthy companies. That his

0:18:31 > 0:18:35company's employee in hundreds of people now caught in the NAMA web.

0:18:35 > 0:18:43Up until now, they have been trying to sort out the sheep from the

0:18:43 > 0:18:47goats, but now NAMA have to decide those businesses they have taken in.

0:18:47 > 0:18:51What are we going to do with the land? That is where the fire sale

0:18:51 > 0:18:55danger could arise, where they simply try to offload all of that

0:18:55 > 0:19:00land on to the market and make the situation worse, and what do we do

0:19:00 > 0:19:06with the business? In many cases, there are real businesses attached

0:19:06 > 0:19:12to these property loans. Make no mistake, this is about jobs, not

0:19:12 > 0:19:20just property. The titanic building is striking and it is our most

0:19:20 > 0:19:24expensive tourism project ever. The company building it arose NAMA

0:19:24 > 0:19:28nearly 500 million euros. Harcourt has already had a business plan

0:19:28 > 0:19:35approved by them and the funding on this project is entirely separate.

0:19:35 > 0:19:39All good so far, but legally NAMA could still call in that big loan

0:19:39 > 0:19:44at a moment's notice. Will they sink our Titanic tourism project?

0:19:44 > 0:19:52That is unlikely but the truth is, no one really knows. This is

0:19:52 > 0:19:56uncharted territory. I have spoken to some of the firms caught up in a

0:19:56 > 0:20:02NAMA and the receivers going after them. That could happen in the new

0:20:02 > 0:20:07year. No one talks on camera. But the businesses involved in this

0:20:07 > 0:20:12fear they are not talking with a bank that was to protect its assets

0:20:12 > 0:20:15but the agency of a government that wants to get cash, and if you need

0:20:15 > 0:20:24cash quickly and you have got assets, the only thing you can do

0:20:24 > 0:20:32is liquidate. Conner makes his living negotiating

0:20:32 > 0:20:39on behalf of both big developers and small investors in debt to the

0:20:39 > 0:20:43banks and NAMA. There has to be some fear factor in the day-to-day

0:20:43 > 0:20:48situation but it is more the uncertainty. We don't know what is

0:20:48 > 0:20:53going to happen to the assets. Is there going to be a disposal

0:20:53 > 0:20:58programme executed in the next 12 months? Is that a fire sale? Some

0:20:58 > 0:21:06might say fire-sale, others may say, will they sell the assets in the

0:21:06 > 0:21:11next three years? This is where the economic becomes political. For

0:21:11 > 0:21:16generations, Unionists in Northern Ireland have feared doubling from

0:21:16 > 0:21:21meddling north of the border. -- Dublin. Who would have thought they

0:21:21 > 0:21:24would have gained most interest by effectively going bust? To be the

0:21:24 > 0:21:31most influential man in Northern Irish property, I have had to go to

0:21:31 > 0:21:35Dublin. With the stroke of a pen, he could put 150,000 companies out

0:21:36 > 0:21:40of business. In his first interview for a Northern Ireland audience,

0:21:40 > 0:21:47the chairman says he is confident of the part he wields over the

0:21:47 > 0:21:52economy. When we send a company or a developer into receivership, in

0:21:52 > 0:21:56some quarters that would be perceived as a popular outcome. I

0:21:56 > 0:22:01would personally regarded almost as a failure, that we haven't managed

0:22:01 > 0:22:05to engage with that individual all with that debtor on a co-operative

0:22:05 > 0:22:11basis and keep them going. There will be cases where they are just

0:22:11 > 0:22:18not viable and there is no point in stepping away from that. There is

0:22:19 > 0:22:24just no future. It is in nobody's interest to keep them going. NAMA,

0:22:24 > 0:22:29we can't. We have already spent billions in tax money and the last

0:22:29 > 0:22:34thing we should do is spend further good money after bad bank lending.

0:22:34 > 0:22:39One of the developers has gone bust and the council's stake they would

0:22:39 > 0:22:43like to get industrial development going but NAMA is not discussing

0:22:43 > 0:22:48how they would release land at the moment. I am aware of the cases but

0:22:48 > 0:22:52I will not discuss the particular case because of confidentiality but

0:22:52 > 0:22:58I am surprised that anybody would say we are not engaging on issues

0:22:58 > 0:23:01like this because I know there his engagement and I can assure you,

0:23:01 > 0:23:10there will be no difficulty with continued engagement on that or any

0:23:10 > 0:23:14other case. And that engagement in Northern Ireland is playing against

0:23:14 > 0:23:23a background of economic turmoil in the republic and the wider crisis

0:23:23 > 0:23:26in the eurozone, which adds up to one thing. Dublin's need for money.

0:23:26 > 0:23:34NAMA's job to bring in money, what does it mean for Northern Irish

0:23:34 > 0:23:39Holdings? To be dump it? Absolutely not. It is something to be done

0:23:39 > 0:23:44over time. Our lifespan is intended to be seven-ten years, so we don't

0:23:44 > 0:23:50have to deal with this in the morning. No fire sales, no

0:23:50 > 0:23:55speculative hoarding, just a very steady, measured disposal over a 7-

0:23:55 > 0:23:5910 year period. We are aware of the sensitivities in Northern Ireland

0:23:59 > 0:24:04said they will be very careful about how they sell assets but

0:24:04 > 0:24:09ultimately, if there is no buyers within five to ten years, there

0:24:09 > 0:24:12will be fire-sale prices. already know Dublin's need for

0:24:12 > 0:24:18money can be too broken promises. Two weeks ago, the Irish government

0:24:18 > 0:24:27dumped plans for Ireland's most expensive road project, a �400

0:24:27 > 0:24:30million commitment for road up grading. As NAMA gets more

0:24:30 > 0:24:35desperate for cash, Northern Ireland is an easier place to sell

0:24:35 > 0:24:40than in the public. Politically you are right and that is why it is

0:24:40 > 0:24:44good and important that we keep political relations with the

0:24:44 > 0:24:48decision makers in the Republic, so that we can keep on pressing our

0:24:48 > 0:24:58case. It is not in the interests of the republic to have an economy

0:24:58 > 0:25:02

0:25:02 > 0:25:10here which is a basket case. Northern Ireland does -- it does

0:25:10 > 0:25:14have a direct line to NAMA. But here is the big problem. Northern

0:25:14 > 0:25:19Ireland's fortunes, and the company's are entwined but our

0:25:19 > 0:25:22priorities are separate. They need to look after taxpayers in the

0:25:22 > 0:25:26republic and storm it needs to worry about the ones here. So far

0:25:26 > 0:25:31relations have been good but as we enter what the finance minister

0:25:31 > 0:25:36calls this dangerous phase, is that relationship good enough? It seems

0:25:36 > 0:25:41not, because suddenly Stormont's special advisory role is and that

0:25:41 > 0:25:49special. There is a vacancy on the board at the moment and Stormont

0:25:49 > 0:25:53once its name on the feet. -- wants its name on the seat. I think we

0:25:54 > 0:25:58need it to be more formalised with someone on the board and it would

0:25:58 > 0:26:02be naive of me to believe there will not be casualties. There will

0:26:02 > 0:26:09be casualties. I want to ensure by working with the Irish government

0:26:09 > 0:26:15and by having an input into NAMA and by ensuring that they fully

0:26:15 > 0:26:20understand the importance of many of those businesses to Northern

0:26:20 > 0:26:26Ireland, we minimise the impact it will have, but I am sure that there

0:26:26 > 0:26:30will be cases where it is inevitable that NAMA will make

0:26:30 > 0:26:35decisions that will impact on the real economy in Northern Ireland.

0:26:35 > 0:26:39There is a lot of anger, a lot of fear, a lot of emotion, because we

0:26:39 > 0:26:42are talking in some instances, maybe a family business that has

0:26:43 > 0:26:46been up and running for 40 years and because maybe they got involved

0:26:46 > 0:26:53in the property market in the last five years, they are unable to pay

0:26:53 > 0:26:58their debts. That is a veritable -- difficult situation to deal with.

0:26:59 > 0:27:02For Brian, at the sharp end of the property crash, it feels like the

0:27:02 > 0:27:09institutions who caused the problem was saved at all costs and worse

0:27:09 > 0:27:14still, the apparent culprits still write them rule book. We are

0:27:14 > 0:27:20getting charges from these people for direct debits and extra charges

0:27:20 > 0:27:30in a roof. Basically the banks have been bailed out. Could that not

0:27:30 > 0:27:34have been put towards people that are in difficulty? The Bank... If

0:27:34 > 0:27:44it had not have lent me such a high amount of money on the value of the

0:27:44 > 0:27:45

0:27:45 > 0:27:50property, then why are they getting bailed out? What would you say to

0:27:50 > 0:27:55someone who says, this is surely only to do with property? It will

0:27:55 > 0:28:02not have any impact on me? This is not just about rescuing property

0:28:02 > 0:28:07developers, this is about trying to ensure that the Northern Ireland

0:28:07 > 0:28:16economy and those businesses caught up in this whole web of property

0:28:16 > 0:28:21speculation on not affected in a way which adds to our economic woes.

0:28:21 > 0:28:25Northern Ireland's future has been mortgaged to the Republic. The

0:28:25 > 0:28:29Republic's future has been mortgaged to Europe. Can we really

0:28:29 > 0:28:34expect preferential treatment from a state where its citizens are