:00:36. > :00:42.Hello and welcome to the programme. Tonight, another top-notch panel is
:00:42. > :00:49.here to tackle the big issues of the week. Sammy Wilson sits in the
:00:49. > :00:55.Executive as the finance minister. Gerry Kelly is a Sinn Fein MLA in
:00:55. > :01:05.Belfast. Deirdre Heenan belongs to the University of Ulster. Also
:01:05. > :01:13.
:01:14. > :01:16.drumming us tonight - David McWilliams, and then MLA for North
:01:16. > :01:23.Antrim. Tonight's questions come from
:01:23. > :01:29.members of our studio and audience. You can also have your say at home.
:01:29. > :01:34.You can also phone and e-mail us, and you can tweet your comments to
:01:34. > :01:39.us. The details on your screen now. Calls cost up to five pence per
:01:39. > :01:42.minute from most land lines. Calls from mobiles may cost considerably
:01:42. > :01:52.more. Our first question comes from Peter,
:01:52. > :01:58.a church minister from Port Stewart. I want us the panel - is there
:01:58. > :02:03.still an opportunity for leadership at Goodwood? Let us put that first
:02:03. > :02:09.to Professor Deirdre Heenan. When I first heard about good word, my
:02:09. > :02:14.initial reaction was, here we are, business as usual. A mix of
:02:14. > :02:18.frustration, anger and dismay that we would seriously think of
:02:18. > :02:25.conceding one of the core values of Northern Ireland, the allocation of
:02:25. > :02:30.social housing. Incredible, given the its historical significance.
:02:30. > :02:35.What we have to look at his watch to the possibilities here? How can
:02:35. > :02:40.this be a catalyst for real change in north Belfast? There are still
:02:40. > :02:45.possibilities, but we need to think big. We want to say, how can
:02:45. > :02:51.bespeak a game changed, an area that has suffered so much over the
:02:52. > :02:58.past 40, 80 years? What you want is a world class area, where
:02:58. > :03:03.individuals who do not live in north Belfast will go to world
:03:03. > :03:09.class leisure and facility services. It or not matter who lives in those
:03:09. > :03:14.houses. It will be some would we want to go. What we cannot have is
:03:14. > :03:20.a political carve up. If it looks like a car up, it smells like a car
:03:20. > :03:24.up, it is a cup up. It is unacceptable. The politicians have
:03:24. > :03:29.to realise that the people of Northern Ireland have moved on. We
:03:29. > :03:35.do not on this sectarianism any more, and we do not both -- and we
:03:35. > :03:39.do not one but as a legacy for our children. APPLAUSE. So you are
:03:39. > :03:46.saying it is a car up, and due regard this as a missed
:03:46. > :03:51.opportunity? We are going to have to think again. Many plans were
:03:51. > :03:56.drawn by the apparent European funding, and the closure of that
:03:56. > :04:00.funding. That is an example of hand to mouth policies. I think it is a
:04:00. > :04:06.calf up, but what we want is a catalyst for the regeneration of a
:04:06. > :04:12.terrier, to address the poverty that exists. I looked at what was
:04:12. > :04:15.being proposed, and yes, that is on the right direction, but not enough.
:04:15. > :04:21.We want people to think big and think outside the box and say, in
:04:21. > :04:27.the future, this whole area will be a world class area for regeneration.
:04:27. > :04:34.Sammy Wilson, a clear message there from to droop. If it looks like a
:04:35. > :04:39.car but, it is. First double, many of her attitude to these things
:04:39. > :04:49.will be influenced by what goes on in the news around us. For a number
:04:49. > :04:52.
:04:52. > :05:00.of years, two successive ministers failed to come to any conclusions.
:05:00. > :05:04.One drove this fruit a week ago. This was been welcomed, not just by
:05:04. > :05:11.two particular parties, but by all of the party's. This was agreed and
:05:11. > :05:15.signed up to buy all of the parties in north Belfast, then it was
:05:15. > :05:21.decided to stop playing politics. Here is a site - it is in the
:05:21. > :05:26.middle of one of the most contested areas of Belfast. Yet 90% will be
:05:26. > :05:32.designed in a way to insure that it is a shared space, attract people
:05:32. > :05:36.from all sides of the community of north Belfast, it will be of such a
:05:36. > :05:46.standard the people from outside the area will also be attracted to
:05:46. > :05:47.
:05:47. > :05:53.it. There are two areas of housing. But that is the whole point. It is
:05:53. > :05:58.not. Here is a site, 90% of which will be developed with high class
:05:58. > :06:04.facilities which will be shared by schools, Protestant and Catholic,
:06:04. > :06:10.shed in terms of sports on offer, shared by the communities
:06:10. > :06:15.surrounding that. I think that that in itself is an important facility
:06:15. > :06:20.fought a deprived area. The fact will have two areas of housing
:06:20. > :06:25.which currently... Many people have preached about this. I would like
:06:26. > :06:29.to see them go from the leafy suburbs and live in mixed
:06:29. > :06:36.communities in North Belfast. They preach about it, but were not
:06:36. > :06:41.practise it. This is not a mixed community. This is two separate
:06:41. > :06:45.segregated piecing of housing. present, we have to live with the
:06:45. > :06:49.reality that we have. If you can make this a shared space, I do not
:06:49. > :06:53.know what that housing will look like in 10 years' time. But we have
:06:53. > :06:58.to start from where we are. Some of the people who preach about it do
:06:58. > :07:02.not practise that integration too well. They live in safe areas and
:07:02. > :07:06.do not have to worry about the tensions that revolve around those
:07:07. > :07:14.areas. Some of your critics have asked the question - is this some
:07:14. > :07:19.kind of car up for the Maze prison? They have been upset together and a
:07:19. > :07:27.deal has been done between Sinn Fein and the do you people stop it
:07:27. > :07:32.was initially agreed by all the parties. It was agreed that a
:07:32. > :07:39.representative would be in north Belfast. Later on, they may well
:07:39. > :07:44.have thought there was political advantage in taking that line. But
:07:44. > :07:49.here is a site that lay neglected for a long time. A minister has
:07:49. > :07:55.driven with the local communities and politicians a plan which may
:07:55. > :08:01.well have some improvement, but tries to use this as they shared
:08:01. > :08:07.space. Jim Allister, are you satisfied with that? It is both a
:08:07. > :08:13.car up and a trade-off. The trade of I do believe is the Maze, were
:08:13. > :08:19.suddenly, after stopping the stadium because of the affiliation
:08:19. > :08:26.with the ugly prison buildings, suddenly, all of that which would
:08:26. > :08:31.create a shrine, is now acceptable. We now have a project, a so-called
:08:31. > :08:36.transformation and reconciliation centre. The key point of which is
:08:36. > :08:43.the hospital wing, where the hunger strike took place, are kept under
:08:44. > :08:49.an integral part of that. Some Sinn Fein politicians have boasted of
:08:49. > :08:58.story telling. The very sort of thing which the DPP said they would
:08:58. > :09:08.never accept because it would be... But you do not actually know that.
:09:08. > :09:10.
:09:10. > :09:13.One knows how this Government works. It is one trade-off against the
:09:13. > :09:18.other. Sinn Fein were demanding hundreds of houses. They would not
:09:18. > :09:24.move on that. Suddenly, they have conceded on that. What do they get
:09:24. > :09:30.in return? It looks obvious to me. They got the Maze. This is the
:09:31. > :09:37.trade-off. There is nothing about how this Executive functions. It is
:09:37. > :09:40.the politics of trade-off, and maize is a classic example of that.
:09:41. > :09:45.We the public were not even trusted to be told how many houses they
:09:45. > :09:50.would build. And how was it launched? Very interesting. They
:09:50. > :09:57.did not call a press conference. They brought their own photographer,
:09:57. > :10:02.took their own photographs. Then they released the news about it.
:10:02. > :10:07.They spent �4,000 of the taxpayers' money on employing the top of us to
:10:07. > :10:13.take photographs of the Executive. They could not trust themselves to
:10:14. > :10:20.be cross examined by the press. That is how they announced it.
:10:20. > :10:26.do you respond to that? Or that, for him, is enough evidence that
:10:26. > :10:33.this is a car up, and is what this Government is about. Is it? Is
:10:33. > :10:43.there a deal between north Belfast and the Maze? Absolutely.
:10:43. > :10:48.
:10:48. > :10:53.Everything is a car up to Jim. I was involved in negotiations. At no
:10:53. > :11:00.time was the Maze brought into this. In fact, the leadership in Sinn
:11:00. > :11:05.Fein did not know where we were with it. It was a local issue. And
:11:05. > :11:10.what amazes me a wee bit about this, I understand the cynicism and
:11:10. > :11:16.scepticism, in any other circumstance, in north Belfast,
:11:16. > :11:23.often described as a microcosm of the conflict, which has the most
:11:23. > :11:28.number of peace walls in the north, and we make a breakthrough. A
:11:28. > :11:33.potential breakthrough, in any case. A potential breakthrough for the
:11:33. > :11:40.first time. We get parties diametrically opposed. All the
:11:40. > :11:48.parties, because we have had five spokes people altogether, who did
:11:48. > :11:53.sign up to this, who agreed to it, and for the record, I was the one
:11:53. > :11:58.who did not want to do the press conference. We wanted the press
:11:58. > :12:08.conference. It was then agreed, in fairness to him, that we would do a
:12:08. > :12:14.
:12:14. > :12:19.On the news for three days, he knows nothing about North Belfast.
:12:19. > :12:24.On one hand he is talking about cutting 350 families, another is
:12:24. > :12:29.200. Another is 220. This was never going to solve the problems.
:12:29. > :12:33.Objective need is at the basis of Sinn Fein policy. Why did you then
:12:33. > :12:37.roll back from a position were over 200 houses were going to be built
:12:37. > :12:41.for nationalists in the area? elyou. You are not answering that
:12:41. > :12:46.question. You are taking this site, you are talking about 27 acres.
:12:46. > :12:50.It's 14 acres. The other 13 are in the jail, you can't build houses in
:12:50. > :12:54.the jail. You were never going to solve the problem with that. What
:12:55. > :12:59.you were able to do was builds on it where there hasn't been a brick
:12:59. > :13:03.put down in six years. All the arguments against this is based on
:13:03. > :13:09.the fact that in some way people want it to be a derelict site for
:13:09. > :13:13.another ten years. The people of North Belfast deserve better.
:13:13. > :13:19.the urgent need of housing on North Belfast on the nationalist side of
:13:19. > :13:29.the house or the unionist side of the house There is a waiting list
:13:29. > :13:29.
:13:29. > :13:37.of 2,400 families. Of that, 90% are nationalist. That is not 90%, 10%
:13:37. > :13:43.in terms of the housing build built. 200 other houses are being built in
:13:43. > :13:49.North Belfast. We have houses up in the numbers there will be 700 in
:13:49. > :13:53.the end. We are working in a lot of places to build houses. The
:13:53. > :13:59.concentration of this argument ended up on one side. You cannot
:13:59. > :14:04.just have housing without amenities. Three schools - Why have you given
:14:04. > :14:09.up on the basic principles of need and equality? Three schools which
:14:09. > :14:15.haven't had facilities for their children have them in the Girdwood
:14:15. > :14:24.site. Why have you given up on the basic principles of need? I have
:14:24. > :14:31.not. You have. No. Part of the SDLP are saying. That I haven't him
:14:31. > :14:39.saying it was a great idea. He has more detail there are serious
:14:39. > :14:44.issues he isn't happy with. Let's hear from David McWilliams. What do
:14:44. > :14:48.you make of what has been very much dominating the agenda here over the
:14:48. > :14:51.past week? If you look at it from the outside, to answer the
:14:51. > :14:55.gentleman's question about vision and leadership. It seems
:14:55. > :15:01.extraordinary, Mark, to me, absolutely extraordinary, that we
:15:01. > :15:04.will still be talking about this, what from the outside this narsism
:15:04. > :15:09.of small difference. If you say blacks live here and whites live
:15:09. > :15:14.here. You would be, you can't do that in this day of age. It strikes
:15:14. > :15:19.me as a southerner, married to a northerner, that the only way that
:15:19. > :15:23.this con stphrict can be made normal is if you school children
:15:23. > :15:28.together. Now, if you school children together you begin the
:15:28. > :15:34.process of familiarisation, were people hang out together. They
:15:34. > :15:38.realise, I'm of a southern Catholic background, married to my wife a
:15:38. > :15:42.northern Protestant. My children don't have horns. They have normal
:15:42. > :15:47.children. The only way you are going, to over the next ten years,
:15:47. > :15:53.begin the process of normalisation is if the leaders of the various
:15:53. > :15:56.different groups lead. And maybe, if you could put in the middle this
:15:56. > :16:00.an integrated school were the children should go. Not an option,
:16:00. > :16:03.but should go, so you have a responsibility as well with your
:16:04. > :16:07.housing rights. Ultimately, Mark, if this doesn't happen, we will go
:16:07. > :16:11.around the circle again and again much we will be here in 20 years
:16:11. > :16:15.time and there will be another issue like this. I want to go to
:16:15. > :16:20.the audience. In Girdwood you will have sports facilities which will
:16:20. > :16:26.be used by Catholic schools and grammar schools. They will not have
:16:26. > :16:32.an integrated school? No. They will have shared facilities that will
:16:32. > :16:37.enable that interface. That is visionary. It's divided and you
:16:37. > :16:42.begin the process of non-division at a young age were people realise
:16:42. > :16:44.they are not that different. David, thank you very much. I want to go
:16:44. > :16:51.to the audience. APPLAUSE
:16:51. > :16:55.Let's hear from Peter who asked the question. What is your response?
:16:55. > :16:59.appreciate David's point about visionary relationship and to start
:17:00. > :17:03.it early. Integrated education seems the best way of doing that.
:17:03. > :17:09.Do you believe there is a carve-up. Do you think there is a connection
:17:09. > :17:14.between what is happening in North Belfast and the Maze? It haes's
:17:14. > :17:19.hard for us on the outside to know. Will they do progressive steps and
:17:19. > :17:25.change things up. We don't want the same scenario in ten to 15 years
:17:26. > :17:30.time. On the left. I live in the North Belfast area, I would like
:17:30. > :17:35.the decisions made on the interface issues as well as equality for
:17:35. > :17:39.housing for all throughout Northern Ireland to be made in the Assembly.
:17:40. > :17:46.The people who made that decision struggled for six years to come to
:17:46. > :17:51.a decision which would accommodate some very ten yus issues in the
:17:51. > :17:53.community. Is it a good decision? Yes. It's a good decision because
:17:53. > :17:57.of the unique situation that happens in interfaces. The fact
:17:57. > :18:01.that we have the two largest parties coming together for this
:18:01. > :18:10.decision. I think the big thing is, why then, in two television
:18:10. > :18:14.programmes, was that six years of negotiation allowed to be pushed
:18:15. > :18:21.aside for a quick gimmick in the media. I think the media have acted
:18:21. > :18:26.irresponsiblibly in this. I'm not quite sure what you are talking
:18:26. > :18:30.about specifically. The most successful capital expenditure in
:18:30. > :18:35.Belfast in recent times hasn't involved to any great degree
:18:36. > :18:38.politicians or indeed social housing. Taking a greater
:18:38. > :18:44.appreciation of the Girdwood development has no-one considered
:18:44. > :18:49.that the University Ulster will decant less than 500 metres from
:18:49. > :18:55.the Girdwood barracks, to get involvement from them would take
:18:55. > :18:59.away contentiousness from that area? Part of the negotiations were
:18:59. > :19:06.with the University of Ulster and they were offered to look at the
:19:06. > :19:10.site and if they had any ideas. That conservation was done with
:19:10. > :19:14.them drve conversation was done with them. It will be a catalyst
:19:15. > :19:20.for regeneration and revive that whole area. That will have a knock-
:19:20. > :19:24.on effect. We need clarity on the basic issue and the issue that
:19:24. > :19:29.caused much contention. However many houses there are on that site,
:19:29. > :19:39.will they be allocated on the basis of objective need? If we have an
:19:39. > :19:39.
:19:39. > :19:43.answer to that we can say there is an onus on the politicians and
:19:43. > :19:46.whatever else ifs on that site will have to be top-class, and people
:19:46. > :19:50.who don't live in the area will want to go there and people who
:19:50. > :19:57.live in the area will have confidence and pride about their
:19:57. > :20:03.communities. Will it be based on need? If you listen to Jonathan
:20:03. > :20:09.Bell, the two of us are speaking the same language. The law say it
:20:09. > :20:13.is has to be on need. Housing is allocated... Housing list comes
:20:13. > :20:18.down to individuals. Housing is allocated on the basis of an
:20:18. > :20:24.individual. If the individual has a need, it doesn't matter on their
:20:24. > :20:28.religion or were where they come from, they should be offered that
:20:28. > :20:31.house. Why wasn't the Housing Executive involved? Somebody over
:20:31. > :20:36.here said the Ulster University should be avoid. The Housing
:20:36. > :20:39.Executive may not of been involved. Isn't that just a little bit
:20:39. > :20:43.surprising? No. You have to understand, I don't know why you
:20:43. > :20:47.don't understand that parties who are so wide apart did not need
:20:47. > :20:51.somewhere quie tote sit down and work through their differences and
:20:51. > :20:55.come to a conclusion. Why don't you tell us how many houses. We don't
:20:55. > :20:59.know the answer to that. We have been talking about people not
:20:59. > :21:04.wanting to live together. You can see from the likes of Northern
:21:04. > :21:08.Ireland Life and Times Survey that people do want to live together.
:21:08. > :21:12.They don't want to move into old areas were they will be in a
:21:12. > :21:15.minority and won't feel security. This was a new site with the
:21:16. > :21:20.opportunity to allow people who wish to to live together. You've
:21:20. > :21:25.screwed that up. Well done. APPLAUSE
:21:25. > :21:30.Thanks very much. Our second question tonight. Thank you to
:21:30. > :21:34.Peter for our first question. Next question is from Leanne Dunlop who
:21:34. > :21:39.is an unemployed journalist from ball money. How can Northern
:21:39. > :21:45.Ireland people be better placed to cope with the worsening eurozone
:21:45. > :21:49.CrySys? David McWilliams? account people in Northern Ireland
:21:49. > :21:54.be better placed? Because you have sterling. You are isolated in terms
:21:54. > :21:58.of at least the exchange rate. What is happening in the euro zone is
:21:58. > :22:02.that the euro economy has three major problems. It has too much
:22:02. > :22:07.debt. It hasn't enough growth. It doesn't have any political
:22:07. > :22:11.leadership. Now, you put those three together, no political
:22:11. > :22:16.leadership, Germany pulling one way, France, Italy and Spain possibly
:22:16. > :22:21.pulling the other way. You have too much debt, inherited from the last
:22:21. > :22:25.ten years. You also have no growth in the economies. So, in economics,
:22:25. > :22:29.the most important thing to do in a CrySys is really define your
:22:29. > :22:34.reality. Not as you would like it to be, but as it actually is. It
:22:34. > :22:39.strikes me that what you have is Germany wants to keep the euro in
:22:39. > :22:44.place, because Germany does very well out of it. Germany trades with
:22:44. > :22:47.the eurozone. Huge, huge trader and it sells. It also, because it's in
:22:47. > :22:52.the eurozone, gets a subsidy. If its currency was the Deutschmark,
:22:52. > :22:56.it is a used to be, it would be much, much stronger than it is. So,
:22:56. > :23:01.for those two reasons, also now, in the CrySys, money is flowing out of
:23:01. > :23:05.Ireland, flowing out of Spain, out of Italy into Germany. Germans are
:23:05. > :23:08.getting low interest rates. It's like, it is interesting you are
:23:09. > :23:12.talking about neighbourhoods. It's like a house-proud neighbour in a
:23:12. > :23:16.bad neighbourhood. The Germans are the house-proud neighbour. They
:23:16. > :23:22.have a lovely lawn. They wash their cars all the time. They fix the
:23:22. > :23:26.gates. All around increasingly they are surrounded by delinquents. Even
:23:26. > :23:31.the French are threatening to go rogue. The Germans are getting
:23:31. > :23:34.worried. The question for the rest of us Europeans is what price the
:23:34. > :23:39.Germans put on cleaning up the neighbourhood. I believe, as
:23:39. > :23:44.somebody who watches this on a daily basis, that Germany is
:23:44. > :23:48.prepared to pay a larger price than it's letting on, which is obvious.
:23:48. > :23:53.The rest of Europe just hasn't quite figured out the exstopbt
:23:53. > :23:58.which the Germans are prepared to pay. -- extent to which the Germans
:23:58. > :24:01.are prepared to pay. That is the big bargain over the next two or
:24:01. > :24:07.three months. If Greece chooses to leave the euro the CrySys gets
:24:07. > :24:11.worse. In terms of Northern Ireland, what you have got is, to an extent,
:24:11. > :24:15.you have the protection of being with sterling. Sterling has proved
:24:15. > :24:20.itself to be, I think many people are surprised by this, reasonably
:24:20. > :24:25.strong and stable in the face of what has been a pretty catastrophic
:24:25. > :24:29.economic back drop over the last year. OK. Interesting and very
:24:29. > :24:32.colourful analogy that you use there as far as the Germans are
:24:33. > :24:36.concerned. You wrote a piece for the Financial Times today. I want
:24:36. > :24:40.to hear from Sammy. Are you saying we are in a stronger position than
:24:40. > :24:44.the Republic of Ireland, but we are maybe a little bit more vulnerable
:24:44. > :24:49.that other parts of the UK? I think because of the trade with the South
:24:49. > :24:54.is quite significant here. Also the general facing of industrial policy
:24:54. > :24:58.is broadly the same, in terms of attracting inward investment etc. A,
:24:59. > :25:03.we have the trade with the South, which most people see as
:25:03. > :25:09.Sainsbury's in Newry. It's greater than that. You're not half as
:25:09. > :25:13.exposed. You don't have a land boarder. You don't have a land
:25:13. > :25:17.boarder, the rest doesn't have the euro zone. If Gordon Brown did
:25:17. > :25:20.anything positive, it was those five tests he put in a couple of
:25:20. > :25:24.years ago. I think the people in the UK are much better off outside
:25:24. > :25:32.the euro than they would of been otherwise. Very interesting to hear
:25:32. > :25:35.that. David, thank you very much. Do you share his analysis and the
:25:35. > :25:41.position where Northern Ireland is as far as this CrySys is concerned?
:25:41. > :25:47.It's significant that many of those people who were berating us for not
:25:47. > :25:50.joining the euro are quiet on the issue. It was going to be an
:25:50. > :25:55.economic disaster. David has said Germany is prepared to pay a price
:25:55. > :25:58.to clean up the neighbourhood. But, the United Kingdom is being drawn
:25:58. > :26:04.into that clean-up operation as well. That's having an impact on
:26:04. > :26:10.our economy. It's estimated so far, through helping the euro stability
:26:10. > :26:13.and also through the IMF, we have put �67 billion into supporting
:26:13. > :26:18.euro countries. That's money which is being drained from spending in
:26:18. > :26:22.our own economy. I think the first thing I would like to see is the
:26:22. > :26:25.Government, I see it in the Queen's Speech, they have taken the first
:26:25. > :26:30.steps saying, we are no longer going to be responsible for a mess
:26:30. > :26:34.we aren't part of. Because of the existing situation in Europe,
:26:34. > :26:37.European markets are not going to grow for a long time. One of the
:26:37. > :26:41.things, which I think increasingly Northern Ireland firms must do, is
:26:41. > :26:46.look at the growing markets. That is what Arlene Foster is doing,
:26:47. > :26:53.India, China, Brazil, Africa some of those areas were growth is 8%,
:26:53. > :27:03.9%. That is where the markets were. Would you like to see the euro
:27:03. > :27:07.
:27:07. > :27:12.The one thing however, the longer we keep trying to sustain an
:27:12. > :27:20.unsustainable position, and money being lent to sustain that position,
:27:20. > :27:24.we will respect growth in our own economy. -- restrict growth. And
:27:24. > :27:30.then being able to restore competitiveness and get wet on the
:27:30. > :27:35.Strait jacket that being part of the euro demands, like Greece.
:27:35. > :27:41.agree, particularly with the last point. The weaker economies in
:27:41. > :27:48.Europe are never going to prosper within the eurozone because it is
:27:48. > :27:52.so arranged against all their interests. They joined, they had
:27:52. > :27:57.different challenges and their economy, they had to subject their
:27:57. > :28:03.entire economy to the central control of the European Central
:28:03. > :28:08.Bank, they set their interest rates, they decided what they could borrow,
:28:08. > :28:14.then they decided you could not borrow up above 3%. This said a
:28:14. > :28:19.whole culture of borrowing, which the smaller countries borrowed, and
:28:19. > :28:24.they are left in the position to pick up the pieces. They need to
:28:24. > :28:31.have their own currencies again. They need to control their own
:28:31. > :28:37.money supply, and maybe just begin to rebuild their economies. But
:28:37. > :28:47.mile my, how thankful we should be, in the United Kingdom, but we never
:28:47. > :28:47.
:28:47. > :28:52.entered the folly of the eurozone! APPLAUSE. The key difficulty for
:28:52. > :28:56.most people watching is the pace of change and uncertainty. We seemed
:28:56. > :29:01.to be lurching from crisis to crisis, and it is very difficult to
:29:01. > :29:05.know what will happen. The tectonic plates are shifting, and we do not
:29:05. > :29:09.know what direction they are shifting. If we go back to the
:29:09. > :29:12.example of Germany, it suits them to have a number of weaker
:29:12. > :29:18.economies. They are happy to throw a few crumbs and the weaker
:29:18. > :29:25.economies and keep the men. The bigger issue is, we have seen a
:29:25. > :29:31.change of regime, in France, and we are all waiting on a political
:29:31. > :29:35.election in Germany. Whatever Germany rejects austerity and goes
:29:35. > :29:41.for a socialist government? Is the whole euro project back on? It was
:29:41. > :29:47.not about the euro, it was about fiscal and monetary union. The
:29:47. > :29:55.first thing they would say Thailand is, you have to adjust your
:29:55. > :29:58.corporation tax. -- say to Ireland. Where are we, as far as Northern
:29:58. > :30:04.Ireland is concerned? Would you like to see the Republic out of the
:30:04. > :30:14.euro? I do not think that is what the referendum is about. It is
:30:14. > :30:14.
:30:14. > :30:21.about sovereignty. The strongest economy... We are also in the EU.
:30:21. > :30:28.You cannot think we are immune. We are not. The referendum, taking
:30:28. > :30:33.place on Thursday, is giving more sovereignty to it. But also to
:30:33. > :30:41.Germany. Yes, we are against it. I do not know if we were when that
:30:41. > :30:51.referendum, but they are looking at -- looking something like 6 billion
:30:51. > :30:53.
:30:53. > :31:00.out of the economy. Austerity could mean years on years. Let us go back
:31:00. > :31:07.to Leeanne. Your thoughts on what we have heard so far? From my point
:31:07. > :31:13.of view, an average everyday persona would do well to increase
:31:13. > :31:19.their ties. Anybody else want to make a quick comment on this? Happy
:31:19. > :31:28.to take your thoughts or not as the case may be. Gentlemen, in the
:31:29. > :31:38.second row. I am asking Mr Kelly, would you still go into the urine
:31:39. > :31:47.
:31:47. > :31:57.now? -- into the euro? That is a different question. Balaam bustard
:31:57. > :31:57.
:31:57. > :32:05.the money. So, what faith is there for an economist now? We have
:32:05. > :32:11.always argued for a relationship with Europe but Coventry. You are a
:32:11. > :32:18.smaller country, it is more important. Let us move on to our
:32:18. > :32:28.third question tonight.,. Should there be a bank holiday thought the
:32:28. > :32:31.
:32:31. > :32:40.Easter rising? LAUGHTER. Has it been raised around the Executive
:32:40. > :32:47.table at Stormont? It may well have been. But yes, of course. We are
:32:47. > :32:51.talking about partnership. There art Republicans who have a view of
:32:51. > :33:00.things that that should be respected in the same way as issues
:33:00. > :33:04.which affect Unionists. Absolutely not. There is no comparison between
:33:04. > :33:10.the Diamond Jubilee of our sovereign in the United Kingdom and
:33:10. > :33:18.some foreign, grubby field rebellion 100 years ago. There is
:33:18. > :33:23.nothing to celebrate about that, other than the feeling. If they
:33:23. > :33:27.want a celebrated, celebrating. Celebrate it in the Republic of
:33:27. > :33:32.Ireland, not Northern Ireland. In Northern Ireland we do have
:33:32. > :33:37.something we should be celebrating - the centenary of the Ulster
:33:37. > :33:41.Covenant, which was part of the building blocks of Northern Ireland.
:33:41. > :33:46.When it was the 50th anniversary, there was a public holiday in
:33:46. > :33:51.Northern Ireland to market, but under Sinn Fein rule, there will be
:33:52. > :34:01.no public holiday to mark the centenary. But Nadal, there will be
:34:02. > :34:02.
:34:02. > :34:12.moves to get a public holiday to celebrate the 1916 rising. I repute
:34:12. > :34:21.D8 the comparison. You cannot a me everything you agree with should be
:34:21. > :34:26.celebrating! Or that is not what I am saying. We celebrate the Diamond
:34:26. > :34:30.Jubilee of our sovereign. If there is another country which thinks
:34:30. > :34:37.there is an important event in our history, then they can celebrated
:34:37. > :34:41.for as long and in whatever manner they choose. I think Jim's answer
:34:41. > :34:44.an attitude highlights why we need to think very carefully about the
:34:44. > :34:48.very important commemorations coming up over the next number of
:34:48. > :34:55.years and how we would deal with them. And how we deal with them in
:34:55. > :35:00.a way which respects diversity and different communities. To refer to
:35:00. > :35:10.something as rubbery and derogatory language, does not move fast
:35:10. > :35:11.
:35:11. > :35:15.forward one iota. APPLAUSE. We do have to make a distinction between
:35:15. > :35:19.things which pertain to the United Kingdom and events which may be
:35:19. > :35:24.important to Republicans, but which pertain to another country. If we
:35:24. > :35:31.will have days in which we set aside, for celebration, then they
:35:31. > :35:37.should be pertinent to our own country. The Americans celebrate
:35:37. > :35:42.fourth July. We do not expected to be a public holiday here. The same
:35:42. > :35:52.as Bastille Day in France, an important day for the French. The
:35:52. > :35:53.
:35:53. > :35:58.Queen's Jubilee is important in the UK. The 1916 rising is something
:35:58. > :36:06.which is pertinent to the history of another sovereign country, which
:36:06. > :36:09.happens to Sir the same island as we do. Indeed, if people in
:36:09. > :36:13.Northern Ireland field and affiliation, I am sure they can
:36:13. > :36:17.think of appropriate ways in which that can be done. I personally
:36:17. > :36:20.would not take the view they should not have the right to celebrate,
:36:20. > :36:27.but I do not think it should be given the same status as something
:36:27. > :36:37.which is naturally important to the UK. How significant is it that
:36:37. > :36:38.
:36:38. > :36:43.Martin McGuinness will consider a proposal to market give it? People
:36:43. > :36:48.ask, is there no vision in Northern Ireland? Peter Robinson has sought
:36:48. > :36:53.ways to reach out to be nationalist and republican community to show we
:36:53. > :37:03.want to work our way forward, and has taken steps to do that. I hope
:37:03. > :37:03.
:37:03. > :37:13.that Martin McGuinness will reciprocate the steps. Jim, you
:37:13. > :37:32.
:37:32. > :37:37.already seller but something that APPLAUSE. If you want to get into
:37:37. > :37:47.the politics of insults and slurs, it does not bring you forward at
:37:47. > :37:50.
:37:50. > :37:54.all. The battle of the Boyne was of European significance. It was
:37:54. > :37:59.particularly of significance to the formation and constitutional
:37:59. > :38:09.formation of this United Kingdom, because at the same time, the bill
:38:09. > :38:14.of Rights was made. But you take his broader point but it is more
:38:14. > :38:19.complicated than you suggested. There is nothing for me to
:38:19. > :38:24.celebrate in a 1916 rising in another place. With the respect, it
:38:24. > :38:32.is not about you celebrating. It is about allowing other people to
:38:32. > :38:39.celebrate. That is deep one! If you are saying to me that a rebellion
:38:39. > :38:46.by Irish rebels, akin to the murderous activities of the IRA,
:38:46. > :38:51.should be celebrated in Northern Ireland, then I'm sorry. I do not
:38:51. > :39:01.agree. This is not about you! This is about the future everyone.
:39:01. > :39:10.us go back to collar. I agree with what jury was saying. On the same
:39:10. > :39:18.basis at the Jubilee? Yes. I am from Northern Ireland, but I hold
:39:18. > :39:23.an Irish passport. I call myself a proud Irish Republican. I do not
:39:23. > :39:29.care whether it you support the butler Boyne or not, but I am an
:39:29. > :39:33.Irish republican. I am proud of the Easter rebellion. I am not pursuing
:39:33. > :39:39.anything on you. I warned not to celebrate the Queen's Jubilee
:39:39. > :39:44.because I do not recognise her. you want to dawn in the
:39:44. > :39:51.celebrations, you can go to Dublin to do that. Let me tell you, north,
:39:51. > :39:57.east, south or west, I have an Irish passport. Would you support
:39:57. > :40:01.it on the same basis as the Diamond Jubilee? Certainly. Quick comment
:40:01. > :40:06.from the gentleman in the back road. Just because Jim it does not
:40:06. > :40:11.appreciate what happened in 1916, does he believe any Republican does
:40:11. > :40:17.not have the right to celebrate anything he believes in? I think
:40:17. > :40:23.Jim has answered that already. Thank you for raising the question.
:40:23. > :40:33.Next question from David Nickson, a community volunteer. With the power
:40:33. > :40:40.
:40:40. > :40:45.and agree about action? I think there is a very sorry history of
:40:45. > :40:55.foreign intervention. We can all lament the dreadful situation in
:40:55. > :40:56.
:40:56. > :41:00.Syria, the huge humanitarian disaster that it is. But when
:41:00. > :41:05.military intervention has been done in the past, getting in has been
:41:05. > :41:15.easy. Sorting out has been difficult. Getting a has been even
:41:15. > :41:15.
:41:15. > :41:22.more difficult. We need sobriety with this matter. The international
:41:22. > :41:31.community need to maximise all the pressure it can on the Syrian
:41:31. > :41:36.regime and, hopefully, in due course, that might bring delivery.
:41:36. > :41:42.But if anyone intervenes, it has to be international, not just in
:41:42. > :41:49.intervention by components. We have seen in Iraq and Afghanistan the
:41:49. > :41:58.country's left to carry the can. How does the situation in Syria
:41:59. > :42:03.You could construct an argument for Libya and Syria. I'm cautioning it
:42:03. > :42:08.is easier to get in, harder to get out. We want to do what we can. We
:42:08. > :42:14.need to be careful about launching in without too much thought. Sammy?
:42:14. > :42:18.I fear that the example that you gave, Mark, of what happened in
:42:18. > :42:23.Libya may well act as a catalyst for intervention in Syria. I think
:42:23. > :42:27.we were lucky we got out of Libya as easily as what we did get out of
:42:27. > :42:32.that situation. We could of been dragged into something much more
:42:32. > :42:37.protracted, etc. We have to get to the point - when we see the
:42:37. > :42:42.shocking pictures that there have been about bodies strewn across the
:42:42. > :42:45.street and the atrocities, etc, of course, naturally, people say we
:42:45. > :42:49.shouldn't allow this to happen. We have to be careful that, as a
:42:49. > :42:57.country, we do not have the resources to become the conscience
:42:57. > :43:02.of the world and the policeman of the world. To intervene in
:43:02. > :43:06.situations which, you know we put our own citizens at danger in and
:43:06. > :43:11.sometimes we really don't have a very clear way of getting out. We
:43:11. > :43:16.don't know what the outcome is going to be. The Government has
:43:16. > :43:20.taken the right attitude wesm have put diplomatic pressure. Diplomatic
:43:20. > :43:25.expulsion, do they have any effect? I think they will have an effect. I
:43:25. > :43:29.think by doing that we also will help to consolidate, perhaps, more
:43:29. > :43:34.international action in Syria, but I think we have to be extremely
:43:34. > :43:38.careful. I would be the same as Jim, I would urge caution because the
:43:38. > :43:42.gung ho attitude that some political leaders had in the United
:43:42. > :43:49.Kingdom, were they felt they had to have a good war to show they were a
:43:49. > :43:53.good political leader and left many broken lives behind them. We are in
:43:53. > :43:56.danger of consensus. I agree with the last two speakers. I think we
:43:56. > :44:01.have to be very careful in any intervention. All the evidence is
:44:01. > :44:06.there that it doesn't work. I do think that diplomatic pressure is
:44:06. > :44:14.very, very important. It has worked in the past. It should continue to
:44:14. > :44:18.be put on. If there is truly, the true judgment, I think the Speaker
:44:18. > :44:23.said, "if needs be", how do you work out what that is? The true
:44:23. > :44:28.reading of what is happening in any country is the popular uprising is
:44:28. > :44:32.the fact that the people themselves turn against their government in a
:44:32. > :44:37.democratic way and replace them. That has also happened. I don't
:44:37. > :44:40.think can jump in front of the people in any of these cases.
:44:41. > :44:44.Deirdre Heenan j gentleman I would agree with what has been said. The
:44:44. > :44:48.UK has had their fingers burnt. We know the difficulties of jumping in.
:44:48. > :44:52.You get in and you can't get out. We were lucky to get out. This time,
:44:52. > :44:56.what we have to do is say, what is available to us other than saying
:44:57. > :45:00.it's up to us to come in as the white knight on the charger. We
:45:00. > :45:04.have to change public opinions. I think we have to raise awareness.
:45:04. > :45:08.What surprises me is how many people are unaware of what's going
:45:08. > :45:13.on in Syria. It isn't making the front pages of the newspapers. It
:45:13. > :45:18.has over the last few days? Until that. The tipping point was the
:45:18. > :45:22.atrocities at the weekend because it avoided children. There were
:45:22. > :45:26.atrocities on a daily basis and people didn't want to talk about it.
:45:26. > :45:34.This is a tipping point and changing our attitudes and say we
:45:34. > :45:39.need to ensure we we put as much diplomatic pressure. We will see
:45:39. > :45:43.this because Russia is moving away. Libya's many ally was Silvio
:45:43. > :45:48.Berlusconi. Other than it was an isolated country with trade links
:45:48. > :45:54.to Europe. Syria sits in the middle of an alliance of Iran, Russia and
:45:54. > :45:57.China. All of which stand behind, whether we like it or not, the
:45:57. > :46:02.Syrian regime. Against that background is the American fear
:46:02. > :46:08.that Iran, through Iraq, and into the Shia Muslims in Syria and into
:46:08. > :46:14.Lebanon are created an arc of Shia Muslims. It's really complicated.
:46:14. > :46:19.The great tragedy of Syria is that Syria is only a pawn in a huge game
:46:19. > :46:24.were China wants oil, were Russia wants influence and were Iran wants
:46:24. > :46:30.domination. Against that background I think it is a totally different
:46:30. > :46:36.case, not only to Libya, but to possibly also to Iraq earlier on.
:46:36. > :46:40.OK. Thank you very much David. David Nixon who asked the question.
:46:40. > :46:44.My opinion is, if Britain or any other nation in the world could
:46:44. > :46:48.help, they should because all life should be valued. There is innocent
:46:48. > :46:56.people dying in the streets now as we're speaking. You think more
:46:56. > :47:00.needs to be done you are not satisfied with diplomatic expulsion.
:47:00. > :47:05.Expulsion people into fancy hotels who are not leaving the country
:47:05. > :47:13.they are being expelled from isn't going to do any good. What about
:47:13. > :47:16.Afghanistan, Iraq, Libya? Well, I agree with military action them. It
:47:16. > :47:24.has helped people out and built towns and cities. I would do the
:47:24. > :47:29.same thing again. Our next question from Orla, a student in Carrickmor.
:47:29. > :47:36.I would like to ask, what is going to happen to the lost generation?
:47:36. > :47:40.OK, the lost generation. Which we have talked about a lot. What do
:47:40. > :47:43.you think the lost generation is and what can be done for people who
:47:43. > :47:47.are coming out of school without qualifications in many instances,
:47:47. > :47:50.finding it very hard to get into the workplace? Even people with
:47:51. > :47:55.qualifications seriously struggling at the moment? Seriously struggling.
:47:55. > :47:58.What we are find something that young people are being
:47:58. > :48:03.disproportionately affected by decisions made by adults that they
:48:03. > :48:05.had no part of. They are in the difficult position of having gained
:48:05. > :48:09.qualifications and finding there is nowhere for them. We are working
:48:09. > :48:13.hard with a number of schemes to address that. Within the University
:48:13. > :48:17.of Ulster we place great value on student placements. Placements
:48:17. > :48:21.within the workplace. So that the students can get an idea of what
:48:21. > :48:25.work is like. What the skills are like. They can decide what is for
:48:25. > :48:31.them. The employers know what the students have to offer and we
:48:31. > :48:35.describe our students in many ways as, "oven ready", they have valued
:48:35. > :48:39.experienced within the workplace. We also have to increase the number
:48:39. > :48:41.of apprenticeships and ensure that the employers are well bought into
:48:41. > :48:46.the apprenticeship schemes because this is about ensuring that the
:48:46. > :48:48.skills that we have in our workforce are matched to what our
:48:48. > :48:52.employers need. It is a disgrace that, yes, of course, that people
:48:52. > :48:57.are coming out, they are coming out with student loans and debts and
:48:57. > :49:03.they can't find jobs. There are many ways that our local Assembly
:49:03. > :49:07.can try to address some of these issues by promoting schemes such as
:49:07. > :49:10.the Halo Scheme, such as schemes that the Northern Ireland Science
:49:10. > :49:14.Park to ensure that the young people have the skills which are
:49:14. > :49:18.appropriate for the labour market. Is the Executive doing enough?
:49:18. > :49:22.Couldn't it do more to help young people struggling at the moment?
:49:23. > :49:26.People will always want you to do more. First of all, youth
:49:26. > :49:29.unemployment in Northern Ireland is lower than the UK average. Youth
:49:29. > :49:33.unemployment has fallen over the last year while it has gone
:49:33. > :49:36.newspaper other parts of the United Kingdom. That is as a result of
:49:36. > :49:40.some of the interventions that Deirdre Heenan has talked about.
:49:40. > :49:45.When it comes to public procurement there is a require am on anyone who
:49:45. > :49:49.win as tender to take on apresent sis and to give people the
:49:49. > :49:54.opportunities to get started and get skills. The amount of money we
:49:54. > :50:03.have put into schemes to help with youth unemployment has increased.
:50:03. > :50:06.Indeed, Stephen Farry is drawing up a youth employment strategy which
:50:06. > :50:09.will come to the Assembly soon. lot of young people are leaving
:50:09. > :50:15.Northern Ireland to find work elsewhere? There are. Equally, we
:50:15. > :50:19.have done a number of things. I'm outlined some of them, which is
:50:19. > :50:22.alleviating the problem here in Northern Ireland. We have tried to
:50:22. > :50:26.ensure that students leave university in Northern Ireland with
:50:26. > :50:31.less student debt because we have held down student fees. Making
:50:31. > :50:35.training at that level more attractive to them. It's a problem
:50:35. > :50:39.here and down South? A problem all over the world. If you look at
:50:39. > :50:44.particularly the United States the companies that create most jobs in
:50:44. > :50:48.the United States are companies that employ between five and ten
:50:48. > :50:51.people. This is were jobs are being created. Big companies are
:50:51. > :50:54.destroying jobs around the world. Small companies are were it's at.
:50:54. > :50:59.The companies that created most jobs are companies between one and
:50:59. > :51:02.two years old. It's young, small companies. So that is creating jobs.
:51:02. > :51:09.That is what is absorbing in particularly unemployed younger
:51:09. > :51:12.people. The question you have to do, how do you make a situation were
:51:12. > :51:17.you incentivise small companies to go into business. Here in the North,
:51:17. > :51:22.or in the South. The South has used the tax system effect nifl a
:51:22. > :51:25.variety of ways. For example, maybe Sammy could think about the �60
:51:25. > :51:30.million you have to spend in your back pocket. You might think of
:51:30. > :51:35.maybe putting together something like a tax holiday for companies
:51:35. > :51:39.that are setup in order to employ three or four people for four or
:51:39. > :51:42.five years. You create the incentive to go into business
:51:42. > :51:45.because something like this can work extraordinarily well in small
:51:45. > :51:49.countries. The interesting thing about small countries is
:51:49. > :51:54.individuals matter enormously. People who step up to the plate
:51:54. > :52:04.matter enormously. If you give incentive. There is a company in
:52:04. > :52:12.Newry called first Derivities. If they can do it in Newry, they can
:52:13. > :52:16.do it better in there than in New York.
:52:16. > :52:20.APPLAUSE Briefly, if you would? Two quick
:52:20. > :52:26.points. There is no easy answer. I think we all know. That there are
:52:26. > :52:32.schemes like Steps to Work, to help people who are really quite
:52:32. > :52:40.unskilled. I think the real question is, are the schemes
:52:40. > :52:43.matching the skills to the jobs? I think that's were the disparity is.
:52:43. > :52:48.Thra are maybe soms jobs which aren't being matched to the skills.
:52:48. > :52:54.The second thing, is picking up on the last point about small being
:52:54. > :52:58.beautiful. For too long in Northern Ireland I think, yes, FDIs are
:52:58. > :53:03.important, we pursued the glamour side of things with foreign direct
:53:03. > :53:07.investment and ignored too much of our small industry were much of our
:53:07. > :53:12.employment lies. Very quickly, if you would? An interesting point
:53:12. > :53:18.that David makes and Sammy will remember this. There is a finance
:53:18. > :53:24.project within Europe which allows up to �20,000 as a grant to young
:53:24. > :53:27.people. The problem is the partnership. You have to get the
:53:28. > :53:31.financial institutions to partner people in small and medium
:53:31. > :53:35.enterprises. 90% of all business is small or medium enterprise. It's a
:53:35. > :53:41.reflection of what you are saying about the outside world. Thank you
:53:41. > :53:46.very much. Orla, a final comment. Are you satisfied? There should be
:53:46. > :53:48.a bigger emphasis on bringing schemes with the likes of coming
:53:48. > :53:54.out with education and qualifications should be getting
:53:54. > :54:04.jobs at the end of it. You think it's a big problem? Yeah. One last
:54:04. > :54:04.
:54:04. > :54:09.question, if we are quick. Has the Eurovision Song Contest become too
:54:09. > :54:19.political for the UK and Ireland to win again? That's the serious
:54:19. > :54:20.
:54:20. > :54:24.question of the night. What happened to Jed ward and enge ange
:54:24. > :54:30.elBert. It was the flat hair that got them. It a fair question after
:54:30. > :54:40.watching. Maybe it's down to the talent of the offerings that we
:54:40. > :54:46.
:54:46. > :54:52.present. They said they were going to win. They came 18th. The British
:54:52. > :54:56.entry came 4 1st. I wasn't watching. Not very good. Has it become
:54:56. > :55:00.political, seriously? It seems to me, Ireland won it six times in a
:55:00. > :55:05.row, I think it came to the point were countries are trying to avoid
:55:05. > :55:08.hosting it. It has passed its sell- by-date. I don't know if it's
:55:08. > :55:12.talent. I didn't watch it, I didn't watch it last year or the year
:55:12. > :55:17.before. I have no great interest. I don't think it's political, it's
:55:17. > :55:23.lost its edge anyway. Is it because people don't like the UK, is that
:55:23. > :55:28.why they are not voting? I wouldn't say that. I think... What would you
:55:28. > :55:33.say? I don't know whether it's become too political. It's become
:55:33. > :55:41.too farcical to even want to win. It's something which I think is
:55:41. > :55:45.well past its sell-by-date. Were you not charmed by the Russian
:55:45. > :55:50.grannies? To enthralled I didn't watch them. I'm told they were the
:55:50. > :55:57.only act worth watching. It has really gone beyond a serious
:55:57. > :56:01.competition. The voting within it is political. That undermines it
:56:01. > :56:05.further. Sammy? I couldn't tell you. I didn't know it was on until
:56:05. > :56:12.tonight when I saw it in the briefing. Whether it's political or
:56:12. > :56:16.not. Europe can make everything political, even songs. You didn't
:56:16. > :56:21.watch Jedward? I didn't know it was on. On Saturday with the sun
:56:21. > :56:27.shining I spent it out in the garden. What I want to know, did
:56:27. > :56:34.you watch it when it was all about Abba and the Brotherhood of Man.
:56:34. > :56:40.I quite like Abba. I still liked Abba. It was a Swedish band, woman
:56:40. > :56:47.that won this time roun. Not Abba. I thought in this Executive he
:56:47. > :56:52.liked all kinds of everything. it's money I like! Were you
:56:52. > :57:01.watching? I didn't see. It I was out at the Mayor's Ball. That is a
:57:01. > :57:04.different story! I think it's lost its shine. It's not a song
:57:04. > :57:11.competition any more. It's a dressing competition. There was a
:57:11. > :57:21.time when people felt they wanted to compete to win now it's
:57:21. > :57:22.
:57:22. > :57:26.something that people have parties in their house to watch. Losing to
:57:26. > :57:34.Ulster would of been tragic. Some people were breathing a shy of
:57:34. > :57:39.relief that Jedward didn't get beyond 18th. Thank you to our pan
:57:39. > :57:45.Elf guests and our student audience. Thank you to you at home for