:00:17. > :00:27.Saturday's parade to celebrate the centenary of the Ulster Covenant. A
:00:27. > :00:36.march like no other, packed with pageantry. And police. 190 bands
:00:36. > :00:39.and 20,000 people. It's around a third to 50% bigger than the 12th.
:00:39. > :00:43.There were fears of trouble. But a collective sigh of relief when it
:00:43. > :00:47.passed off without a major incident. At what cost, though? Tonight we
:00:47. > :00:56.reveal the bill for this year's marching season. �6 million is far
:00:56. > :00:58.too much money to spend on this area. At the heart of another tense
:00:58. > :01:01.summer was a dispute over the behaviour of the Young Conway
:01:01. > :01:10.Volunteers outside St Patrick's Catholic church in Belfast. We hear
:01:11. > :01:20.exclusively from the band. Our band did nothing wrong. To the Catholic
:01:21. > :01:22.
:01:22. > :01:26.community, it was an insult. disrespect is intended by any of
:01:26. > :01:36.the marchers. People say they do not want to make this a contentious
:01:36. > :01:39.
:01:39. > :01:42.route. It was a summer in which the Parades Commission, the body set up
:01:42. > :01:45.to deal with contentious marches, left both sides angry. With less
:01:45. > :01:48.than a year to go before the Commission has to be replaced, is
:01:48. > :01:51.Northern Ireland any closer to finally sorting out the problem of
:01:51. > :02:01.parades? The Parades Commission is not the way to solve this. In fact
:02:01. > :02:14.
:02:14. > :02:18.there may not be a way to solve it. Thousands of people, united in
:02:19. > :02:22.Belfast in the spirit of a century old pledge. They were celebrating
:02:22. > :02:27.the Ulster Covenant. Pledging themselves to Britain as the men
:02:27. > :02:36.and women of Ulster. And pledging to stay British. For Ulster's
:02:36. > :02:40.Unionists, it's a birthright. years after all the troubles, the
:02:40. > :02:45.IRA campaigns and internal tussles and differences between London and
:02:45. > :02:50.Dublin, the fact they are still in the United Kingdom, they want to
:02:50. > :03:00.celebrate that loudly and proudly. It was a big day for John Aughey.
:03:00. > :03:03.
:03:03. > :03:09.Parading is in his blood. This one was as big as it gets. I am looking
:03:09. > :03:12.forward to celebrating my heritage. It is probably bigger than Twelfth
:03:12. > :03:21.of July in terms of the size of the parade. This is the hundredth
:03:21. > :03:24.anniversary, let's hope there is a 100 anniversary. It's not just an
:03:24. > :03:28.idea, or a folk memory for John. His family have a deep-rooted
:03:28. > :03:31.connection with the Covenant. They have lived it. My two grandfathers
:03:31. > :03:36.both signed the Covenant, but they both signed it for the same reason,
:03:37. > :03:41.to reaffirm our position within the United Kingdom. I consider myself
:03:41. > :03:50.to be following in the family tradition. My son, my daughter and
:03:50. > :03:53.grandson are in the parade today. Let's hope the tradition continues.
:03:53. > :03:55.The Covenant was about defiance. Defiance of a Bill that would
:03:55. > :04:01.release Ireland from british control. Ulster's unionists, led by
:04:01. > :04:08.Lord Carson, drew up a pledge rejecting it in the strongest terms.
:04:08. > :04:12.What it means has not changed from grandfather to grandson. There are
:04:12. > :04:16.serious and many pressures put on the people of Northern Ireland to
:04:16. > :04:25.weaken that opinion. It is important for us to show the rest
:04:25. > :04:29.of the world that we are just as determined now. But not everyone
:04:29. > :04:31.was celebrating. The residents of Carrick Hill protested in front of
:04:31. > :04:34.St Patrick's Church in north Belfast, as John and several
:04:34. > :04:44.hundred other Orangemen passed by. While all the bands abided by the
:04:44. > :04:49.
:04:49. > :04:53.Commission ruling to play hymns, some played more loudly than others.
:04:53. > :04:58.So a more exuberant but the process seemed to be more respectful than
:04:58. > :05:03.before. Sometimes it can be interpreted by members of the
:05:03. > :05:05.community as insulting. The majority went well. Some loyalist
:05:05. > :05:08.protesters outside a Catholic church in East Belfast vented their
:05:08. > :05:18.anger at parade restrictions by encouraging bands to play louder
:05:18. > :05:20.
:05:20. > :05:28.and sing banned songs. And when a bandsman was photographed urinating
:05:28. > :05:32.near the church, the Orange Order apologised. The behaviour, what he
:05:32. > :05:36.had done, anyway in public it should not happen, but particularly
:05:36. > :05:39.at a place of worship, it was wrong. While the day passed without
:05:39. > :05:44.serious incident, the failure to secure agreements in the weeks
:05:44. > :05:47.leading up to it revealed deep divisions between both sides.
:05:47. > :05:50.Saturday's Covenant parade was a relatively quiet end to a marching
:05:50. > :05:58.season that lasted a month longer than in previous years. But the
:05:58. > :06:00.parading problems thrown up by the summer remain unresolved. At the
:06:01. > :06:03.heart of the controversy is the future of the Parades Commission.
:06:04. > :06:08.We've looked back over the disputes to piece together why there were
:06:08. > :06:11.problems and to examine the Parades Commission's determinations.
:06:11. > :06:15.Rioting in Ardoyne in north Belfast on the Twelfth, a day that tested
:06:15. > :06:25.the police to their limits. It wasn't supposed to be like this.
:06:25. > :06:26.
:06:27. > :06:30.And it would end in a serious attack. The Orange Order's march
:06:30. > :06:32.had had restrictions placed on it by the Parades Commission. In an
:06:32. > :06:36.attempt to prevent confrontation, they said the Orange marchers had
:06:36. > :06:46.to return past nationalist Ardoyne much earlier than normal. By 4
:06:46. > :06:47.
:06:47. > :06:52.o'clock. Much to the irritation of the loyalist and unionist community.
:06:52. > :06:56.It caused great distress in the way the unions family was. A
:06:56. > :07:02.reprehensible decision -- Unionist family. It literally forced the
:07:02. > :07:05.loyal orders to return by 4pm. same day, Republicans also wanted
:07:05. > :07:08.to march in Ardoyne. Two separate protests were planned. The
:07:08. > :07:18.organiser of one says their aim was clear, to challenge the Parades
:07:18. > :07:22.
:07:22. > :07:24.Commission. We were challenging them. We say who has primacy?
:07:24. > :07:28.effort to accommodate all sides, the parades commission allowed the
:07:28. > :07:32.two republican protests AND a loyalist one - to go ahead, as well
:07:32. > :07:41.as the Orange parade. It led to a Of republicans and loyalists cheek
:07:42. > :07:50.by jowl in the middle of the road. The police were caught in the
:07:50. > :07:56.middle. How close did it come to the wire to getting out of control?
:07:56. > :08:05.There was a period of five full ten minutes undoubtedly and it was
:08:05. > :08:11.incredibly difficult. -- I had to make sure nobody got hurt. I after
:08:11. > :08:15.a day of tension and violence, the commission was criticised. Except
:08:15. > :08:19.it was a challenging position for the police on the day and whatever
:08:20. > :08:24.decisions were taken, there would have been problematic issues.
:08:24. > :08:34.rioting worsened as the night went on and things turned more sinister
:08:34. > :08:37.
:08:37. > :08:44.as a dissident republican gunman shot at police, firing 17 rounds.
:08:44. > :08:48.The day after the 12th, a video emerged showing a loyalist marching
:08:48. > :08:58.band stopping to play what many regard the sectarian tune outside
:08:58. > :09:03.
:09:03. > :09:06.St Patrick's church. There was fury within the nationalist community.
:09:06. > :09:10.The band responsible has not talked publicly about its actions, until
:09:10. > :09:16.now. One of the band members spoke exclusively to us. I do not believe
:09:16. > :09:24.the band did anything wrong on the day. What we did on Twelfth of July,
:09:24. > :09:30.we did throughout the day, on the entirety of the route. It is just
:09:31. > :09:37.what we do. The band in no way, as I see it, did anything wrong on the
:09:37. > :09:44.day. He was one of those who stopped outside St Patrick's. He
:09:44. > :09:50.feels the actions of the band have been exaggerated. There is nowhere
:09:50. > :09:55.else in the world he would see the media taking the story of a band
:09:56. > :10:00.playing outside a church. Over the top of 17 shots being fired at
:10:00. > :10:08.police officers. It was not the act of playing that caused such offence,
:10:08. > :10:13.it was the choice of music. tune we played was Sloop John B. We
:10:13. > :10:18.cannot be held responsible for what people perceived to be. My honest
:10:18. > :10:23.opinion if people think it was sectarian, surely they have a
:10:23. > :10:29.mindset that is sectarian. Many say it is sectarian because it also
:10:29. > :10:38.goes by the name of the Famine Song, a standard of Glasgow Rangers
:10:38. > :10:45.supporters. We played tunes set out before we walk. In our eyes, it was
:10:45. > :10:52.a genuine song. And if people perceived it as the Famine Song, if
:10:52. > :10:58.somebody... If somebody felt hat, from what the band did, the band,
:10:58. > :11:08.by all means, will apologise and has apologised. We did not set out
:11:08. > :11:08.
:11:08. > :11:14.that day to cause anybody upset. It was a day of exuberance. We do what
:11:14. > :11:19.we do every Twelfth of July. Act is little comfort to the priest
:11:19. > :11:27.at St Patrick's, who was abroad when he heard about their actions.
:11:27. > :11:32.I sent a text message and e-mail to say -- I received, it said to check
:11:32. > :11:39.the website and I was quite shocked by it. My response was, what is
:11:39. > :11:44.going on? And why are we being focused? Why are we being singled
:11:44. > :11:50.out for this particular behaviour? Father Sheehan quickly found out
:11:50. > :11:55.how upset parishioners were. They were horrified and insulted. They
:11:55. > :12:04.felt belittled. They felt that nothing had changed in decades.
:12:04. > :12:10.That day felt they were second- class citizens. And if we were
:12:10. > :12:14.insulted by it, tough. She shortly after the video emerged, the band
:12:14. > :12:20.apologised for any offence and said that members did not realise they
:12:20. > :12:26.were outside a church. Some people would say they did not deliberately
:12:26. > :12:31.do that and I am trying to be open to that. To the Catholic community,
:12:31. > :12:36.it was an insult. Many others would say it was not intended as an
:12:36. > :12:44.insult, but to stand outside the church and to do that, it is an
:12:44. > :12:47.The YCV band's actions could not be ignored. They'd broken the Parades
:12:47. > :12:53.Commission's code of conduct. And the body had to be seen to act.
:12:53. > :12:56.Once more, how it acted made it the target of trenchant criticism. It
:12:56. > :13:03.decided to place restrictions on an entire set of bands marching past
:13:03. > :13:07.St Patrick's, on a Royal Black Preceptory Parade in late August.
:13:07. > :13:13.They were only to play a single drumbeat - and the YCV band weren't
:13:13. > :13:15.to walk past at all. Mervyn Gibson, chaplain to the Royal Black
:13:15. > :13:21.Preceptory and an Orange Order spokesman, claims the Parades
:13:21. > :13:24.Commission was acting in a vengeful way. You just cannot come out of
:13:24. > :13:28.the blue, ban an organisation, a whole parade, from playing music at
:13:28. > :13:31.a particular time. For no particular reason other than spite.
:13:31. > :13:35.The marching fraternity was incensed, and decided it had had
:13:35. > :13:38.enough. I think it was a case that people were asked would they
:13:38. > :13:42.support a breaking of a determination if that was the case.
:13:42. > :13:46.And I believe there was support for that decision. Unionist politicians
:13:46. > :13:48.were prepared to lend them support. On the eve of the march an open
:13:48. > :13:56.letter was written Owen Paterson, then Secretary of State, calling
:13:56. > :14:00.the Parades Commission's decision "monstrous". I think it was
:14:00. > :14:03.unhelpful. I think whenever I saw that letter produced, publicised,
:14:03. > :14:09.the morning of the parade, I mean it was quite obvious that it was
:14:09. > :14:11.not going to have a helpful effect. It was signed by a many unionist
:14:11. > :14:16.politicians - including First Minister Peter Robinson, who was
:14:16. > :14:19.abroad on holiday. When you've got someone who is supposed to be
:14:19. > :14:21.leading an administration signing a letter which in practise encouraged
:14:21. > :14:28.people to breach a determination which the Parades Commission had
:14:28. > :14:34.established. I mean that is the opposite of political leadership,
:14:34. > :14:36.that is running in behind the extremists. On the day of the
:14:36. > :14:41.parade, bands openly flouted the Parades Commission's ruling -
:14:41. > :14:47.playing loudly and proudly as they passed the Church. Father Sheehan
:14:47. > :14:52.could only look on. The next thing I heard was the bands striking up
:14:52. > :14:56.but becoming louder. And I was shocked because I couldn't believe
:14:56. > :15:00.it and I thought maybe it was just a one off thing. Then the next band
:15:00. > :15:07.struck up and the third band and the fourth and at that stage i
:15:07. > :15:11.thought this is just crazy. And I couldn't understand why it was
:15:11. > :15:19.happening. I had never ever witnessed anything of such anger
:15:19. > :15:23.and eh would appear to be venom and sectarian hatred as I did then. I
:15:23. > :15:29.was shocked by it, I was horrified by it. I was still shaking after it.
:15:29. > :15:35.I know that. It's up to the police to uphold Parades Commission
:15:35. > :15:40.determinations. But the police chose not to block the bands and
:15:40. > :15:43.instead stood back, shouting warnings. You have an option you
:15:43. > :15:46.can enforce at the time or but enforcement at the time stopping
:15:46. > :15:49.that parade will lead seven thousand people to go where? I am
:15:49. > :15:52.absolutely certain that the judgement that we exercised on the
:15:52. > :15:56.25th was a right judgement in terms of both communities in North
:15:56. > :16:00.Belfast. The Parades Commission had been openly defied. Peter Osborne
:16:00. > :16:04.denies that it had been fatally undermined. The vast majority of
:16:04. > :16:07.determinations are adhered to. Where they are not adhered to,
:16:07. > :16:10.first of all the police gather evidence Secondly it's the sort of
:16:10. > :16:17.issue we would take into account for future determinations if
:16:17. > :16:25.necessary. More than 30 bands broke the Parades Commission
:16:25. > :16:27.determination. They were criticised by some Protestant clergy, but DUP
:16:27. > :16:29.minister Nelson McCausland sympathised with them. There is an
:16:29. > :16:37.anger, there is a resentment within the unionist community and
:16:37. > :16:40.therefore something such as this was almost inevitable. To be able
:16:40. > :16:43.to say look, this is completely wrong, or you have to support the
:16:43. > :16:46.law - that's what the role of a senior politician should be. Not
:16:46. > :16:51.coming along and saying, look the Parades Commission, it shouldn't be
:16:51. > :16:57.there, we shouldn't talk to them and we deplore their determinations.
:16:57. > :17:00.I mean that just gives an open door to people who are going to riot.
:17:00. > :17:07.What happened on the 25th was genuinely a protest against the
:17:07. > :17:12.parade commission's decision. I wouldn't see it as law breaking.
:17:12. > :17:16.was law breaking. You say it was law breaking, I am saying it was a
:17:16. > :17:21.protest, something, a line in the sand had to be drew, it had to be
:17:21. > :17:26.done. Determinations can be protested against, but when they're
:17:26. > :17:29.flouted, the law is broken. there is a bad law there that
:17:29. > :17:31.doesn't show equality and is enacted against the institution, I
:17:31. > :17:38.think there will be peaceful protests against that until it is
:17:38. > :17:45.changed. For the police, the legacy of these events was mounting
:17:45. > :17:47.tension among loyalists, convinced they were being persecuted. It was
:17:48. > :17:57.almost like a pressure cooker effect within the wider community
:17:58. > :17:59.
:17:59. > :18:03.in. One week on from the bands' act of defiance, a republican parade
:18:03. > :18:05.made its way past Clifton Street - without any restrictions. It was to
:18:05. > :18:10.spark sustained rioting involving hundreds of waiting Loyalists. Once
:18:10. > :18:13.again, the police were in the middle. That was three days of some
:18:13. > :18:17.of the most intense rioting we have seen in Northern Ireland over the
:18:17. > :18:20.course of a number of years to the most intense barrage of missiles
:18:20. > :18:23.that led to over sixty of them being injured over the course of
:18:23. > :18:28.that three days It led Will Kerr to publicly criticise the leadership
:18:28. > :18:30.of politicians. But what was frustrating for the police service
:18:30. > :18:33.at the beginning of September was the continuant political focus on
:18:33. > :18:36.blaming the other side there's no such thing in a mature civic
:18:36. > :18:39.society in 2012 as righteous anger that justifies the intensity and
:18:39. > :18:45.the level of violence that we saw between the 2nd and 4th of
:18:45. > :18:47.September in Carlise Circus. Unionist politicians, who'd been
:18:47. > :18:51.happy to rail against the Parades Commission before the violence,
:18:51. > :18:57.were then criticised for not coming out to condemn it. The DUP's Nigel
:18:57. > :18:59.Dodds says that's grossly unfair. The DUP have a clear record of
:18:59. > :19:02.condemning violence and we condemn violence absolutely, and Peter
:19:02. > :19:09.Robinson and I visited the Lower Shankill and spoke to local
:19:09. > :19:15.residents. This attempt to turn it round that somehow Unionist
:19:15. > :19:18.politicians were slow to condemn violence that is absolute nonsense.
:19:18. > :19:20.After three days of disorder, the First Minister publicly condemned
:19:20. > :19:23.the rioting I think very consistently I've condemned anyone
:19:23. > :19:25.who's involved in violence and breaking the law, that's a role
:19:25. > :19:28.that you would expect any first minister, indeed it's consistently
:19:28. > :19:38.been my position. I think there are undoubtedly very high tensions in
:19:38. > :19:46.
:19:46. > :19:56.north Belfast and indeed other My role is to ensure that we don't
:19:56. > :19:57.
:19:57. > :20:01.add to those difficulties by things that are said and done. Perhaps if
:20:01. > :20:06.everyone took as step back and said a lot less, we might be in a much
:20:06. > :20:08.better position to resolve these issues. But they will only be
:20:08. > :20:11.resolved on the basis of mutual respect. But some commentators
:20:11. > :20:13.believe unionist politicians were too slow with their condemnation.
:20:14. > :20:16.think it was hugely damaging because it looked like they were
:20:17. > :20:20.running away. It looked like they recognised they had got it wrong.
:20:20. > :20:23.It was one of the biggest, I think, own goals that Unionism and Orange
:20:23. > :20:25.have scored in the past two or three years. With the landmark
:20:26. > :20:30.Covenant Centenary Parade just weeks away, the loyal orders tried
:20:30. > :20:34.to build bridges. All eyes, including the Parades Commission,
:20:34. > :20:36.were on them. So there was an apology for offences caused to the
:20:36. > :20:40.church. And the Orange Order offered to meet the St Patrick's
:20:40. > :20:43.parishioners. The Orange Order was hoping the talks it had offered
:20:43. > :20:46.might lead to a deal to ease tensions in the area. With a summer
:20:46. > :20:50.of trouble behind them, but one of their biggest events ahead, they
:20:50. > :20:52.wanted to avoid restrictions from the Parades Commission. Father
:20:53. > :21:02.Sheehan and a handful of parishioners agreed to meet with
:21:03. > :21:03.
:21:03. > :21:06.them. I had never been involved in anything like this in my life. I am
:21:06. > :21:10.not a negotiator, I am not trained in anything like that. I just
:21:10. > :21:13.jumped in with two feet. And it was always my firm hope that if orange
:21:13. > :21:18.and residents met that they would have found a common ground which
:21:18. > :21:21.would have been clearly evident to both. The meeting with parishioners
:21:21. > :21:27.was seen as a big development. But there was no meeting with residents
:21:27. > :21:30.of the area. The Orange Order had for years blocked talks with
:21:30. > :21:33.residents groups, but revealed that as far back as March it had dropped
:21:33. > :21:42.that ban. We decided that we just couldn't sit back and allow the
:21:42. > :21:45.parades commission to continue eh what they were doing. So we said
:21:45. > :21:48.what we do need to do is to move things forward ourselves as an
:21:48. > :21:51.organisation? But the talks didn't work - they ground to a halt over
:21:51. > :21:54.the issue of whether the Order would talk to residents of nearby
:21:54. > :21:57.Carrick Hill. I could not understand why that wouldn't happen.
:21:57. > :22:01.And my hope was that that would happen. The Orange Order however
:22:01. > :22:07.considered it a success. I think we have seen that we can engage and do
:22:07. > :22:11.engage. And even engage at every parade of many people. This time we
:22:11. > :22:14.actually engaged at a place where there had been contention and at a
:22:14. > :22:17.place where there had been hurt caused. And I believe we engaged in
:22:17. > :22:21.a way that was genuine. In a way that lead to mutual understanding,
:22:22. > :22:24.and I believe lead to a resolution of that particular issue. There had
:22:25. > :22:27.been engagement, but there hadn't been a solution. Once again it was
:22:27. > :22:30.back to the Parades Commission to make a decision. The Parades
:22:30. > :22:36.Commission said that only hymns were to be played outside churches,
:22:36. > :22:38.and played with respect. That was flouted by some. Leaders from all
:22:38. > :22:45.sides though have praised the relative calm of the Covenant
:22:45. > :22:51.celebration. The question is after a summer of violence and protest
:22:51. > :22:54.around parades - at what cost was this Centenary success bought?
:22:54. > :22:59.Policing disorder arising from this summer's parading has cost the PSNI
:22:59. > :23:09.considerably. Exact figures will be presented to the Policing Board on
:23:09. > :23:09.
:23:09. > :23:11.Thursday. But we can reveal that the cost is already up on last year,
:23:11. > :23:14.without taking into account the loyalist rioting in September or
:23:14. > :23:22.Saturday's parade. The total for this year's marching season will be
:23:22. > :23:25.over �6.5 million. That's up around �800,000 from last year. �6 million
:23:25. > :23:28.is �6 million, which a police service can't spend on things that
:23:28. > :23:33.matter more to local communities for the real, rest of the year. �6
:23:33. > :23:37.million is far too much money to spend on this area. Will Kerr has a
:23:37. > :23:40.strong view about how those costs should be met in the future.
:23:40. > :23:43.would say quite legitimately I think that people should take
:23:43. > :23:46.responsibility and share a burden of the costs whenever the platform
:23:46. > :23:56.of an event leads to associated disorder we would welcome a debate
:23:56. > :23:56.
:23:56. > :24:00.about where that cost would lie. Politicians here also have to
:24:00. > :24:04.grapple with their failure, so far, to sort out the issue of parading.
:24:04. > :24:08.It all comes down to the question of what will replace the Parades
:24:08. > :24:12.Commission. Alistair Graham was on the very first Parades Commission
:24:12. > :24:18.in 1998. It was his commission that first dealt with the annual problem
:24:18. > :24:21.of Drumcree. I thought it would be an issue for a long period of time.
:24:21. > :24:23.I didn't think the Parades Commission would still be in
:24:23. > :24:28.existence, taking week to week, month to month decisions about
:24:28. > :24:31.parades in Northern Ireland. I have genuinely been staggered by the
:24:31. > :24:35.degree and the progress that has been made in political decision
:24:35. > :24:42.making in Northern Ireland. But unfortunately we haven't made the
:24:42. > :24:50.same progress in dealing with parades. Back in 2010, the DUP and
:24:50. > :24:54.Sinn Fein thought they had it cracked. They came up with
:24:54. > :24:56.proposals that would have created a new panel to rule on parades. But
:24:56. > :24:59.the Orange Order voted not to support it, effectively killing the
:24:59. > :25:02.plan off. There was elements within the institution that didn't want
:25:02. > :25:05.that. Some I believe for political reasons, some for genuine reasons
:25:05. > :25:08.that they were against them. I was involved in producing them, so yes,
:25:08. > :25:11.I think they should have adopted them. But it is a democratic
:25:11. > :25:13.organisation and they rejected them, albeit by a very small minority,
:25:13. > :25:16.but that is democracy. That rejection called into question the
:25:16. > :25:19.DUP's ability to deliver on parading. What the DUP should have
:25:19. > :25:22.done was went ahead with it because the Orange order were represented
:25:22. > :25:25.in all of that. They showed a weakness of leadership by not
:25:25. > :25:27.seeing that through It also meant that the current Parades
:25:27. > :25:30.Commission's life had to be extended until next year. Nigel
:25:30. > :25:33.Dodds says there's still time to find a replacement. It's important
:25:33. > :25:36.that people buy into and have confidence in a regime they have to
:25:36. > :25:41.operate under and that applies to any walk of life so far as
:25:41. > :25:44.government is concerned. No, I would've preferred that we had
:25:44. > :25:48.moved forward on the basis of proposals that are out there but
:25:48. > :25:51.we're not precious or signed up that it has to be these 2010
:25:51. > :25:55.proposals, this is set in concrete, far from it, we want to move this
:25:55. > :26:01.forward. Under the 2010 proposals, oversight of parading would have
:26:01. > :26:11.been devolved to the office of first and deputy first ministers.
:26:11. > :26:12.
:26:12. > :26:17.Alistair Graham says that's a bad Well I would be strongly against
:26:17. > :26:24.that. I think to put this toxic issue of parades into the heart of
:26:24. > :26:27.the political process would be a high risk strategy indeed.
:26:27. > :26:31.solution many seek is for residents and marchers to come to agreements
:26:31. > :26:34.on parading. The Orange Order meeting with Church parishioners
:26:34. > :26:39.this summer shows that they think there's mileage in the idea, if
:26:39. > :26:47.only to bypass the Commission. It's also led to increasing calls for
:26:47. > :26:51.the Order to meet with Sinn Fein. have no doubt that they see the
:26:51. > :26:54.orange will see the way ahead is to talk to Sinn Fein, is to talk to
:26:54. > :27:02.residents groups. And then get more marches and more permission to
:27:02. > :27:05.march as a result of that than refusing to speak. I think it will
:27:05. > :27:09.eventually happen. Some people in the institution will never want it
:27:09. > :27:12.to happen which is fair enough and i respect that view. I think it
:27:12. > :27:15.will happen, but it won't happen when people are being enforced into
:27:15. > :27:18.it or bullied in, or people think they are politically point scoring.
:27:18. > :27:21.To do that the Orange Order will have to bring its members and
:27:21. > :27:24.supporters with it. That will be a difficult sell to people like
:27:24. > :27:27.bandsman Paul Shaw. If they're seen to be meeting republicans and
:27:27. > :27:33.meeting Sinn Fein then it will tear the Order apart. I mean they will
:27:33. > :27:36.lose all support from within itself, they are going against the grain.
:27:36. > :27:40.If they have a policy and a principle set out, then they should
:27:40. > :27:45.stand by it. If communities can't agree, most accept that decisions
:27:45. > :27:47.from above are needed - basically what we have at present. So in many
:27:47. > :27:53.ways we're at stalemate. The Parades Commission is certainly
:27:53. > :27:56.unloved, but no-one yet has a better solution. We understand and
:27:56. > :27:59.have always understood somebody has to arbitrate when there is dispute
:27:59. > :28:03.around parades. We would prefer that not to reach that stage but
:28:03. > :28:06.there is some parades will reach that stage. All we want is a body
:28:06. > :28:09.in there that will deal with us all fairly. That is certainly not the
:28:09. > :28:12.case with this Parades Commission. And hasn't been in the past.
:28:12. > :28:14.Whether the critical decisions around parading remain with the
:28:14. > :28:22.Commission or move to Stormont, the process will remain deeply tainted
:28:22. > :28:27.by suspicion. It is a total disgrace the way we are being boxed
:28:27. > :28:36.up and put in to cold storage. I mean it would suit everybody all
:28:37. > :28:40.right for the Protestant people just to disappear. Nationalists
:28:40. > :28:43.also face a decade of events that may likely be as contentious as the
:28:43. > :28:45.Covenant celebrations. Yet they, too, have their problems, and will
:28:45. > :28:48.be looking over their shoulder at hard-liners emboldened through this
:28:48. > :28:51.summer's protest at parades. reality is I don't think there is a
:28:51. > :28:55.solution to the parading commission, where you continue to have a turf
:28:55. > :28:57.war, and there will always be a turf war in parts of Northern
:28:57. > :28:59.Ireland. And nobody, whether it's the Assembly, whether it's the
:28:59. > :29:01.Parades Commission, whether it's another entirely invented
:29:02. > :29:08.organisation, I don't think anyone can resolve the bottom problem,
:29:08. > :29:12.which is that one side really doesn't like the other. That mutual
:29:12. > :29:14.animosity will always find an outlet in problem parades. A
:29:14. > :29:18.century after the Ulster Convenant, Northern Ireland has worked through