:00:26. > :00:30.Good evening. David Black was buried today. His republican
:00:30. > :00:36.killers were described at the funeral as murderous thugs and
:00:36. > :00:39.bloodthirsty criminals. In tonight's programme, we reflect on
:00:40. > :00:49.the killing of a special hero who was looking forward to retirement
:00:50. > :00:51.
:00:51. > :00:55.after a life a service as a police officer.
:00:55. > :01:00.Somebody needs to tell me this strategy because I can't see it,
:01:00. > :01:06.and if I can't, how can other people? And we hear how the pain of
:01:06. > :01:10.losing and the of one to violence never goes away. You don't get used
:01:10. > :01:16.to it. You live with the constant loss and devastation of what that
:01:16. > :01:23.is all about, and loneliness. Black was a loving father and
:01:23. > :01:27.husband devoted to his elderly parents. He was a hard-working but
:01:27. > :01:37.easy-going man. Bruijn in Hollywood looks back on the life and the
:01:37. > :01:38.
:01:38. > :01:43.His friends all agree that David Black was a man with a great sense
:01:43. > :01:45.of humour, always smiling and ready with a joke. He liked to travel,
:01:45. > :01:50.enjoyed rugby and bowling, and was looking forward to spending more
:01:50. > :01:59.time with his family. There was the prospect of retirement next year
:01:59. > :02:09.after a lifetime in the prison At his funeral today in Cookstown,
:02:09. > :02:13.
:02:13. > :02:18.son Kyle paid tribute to the father All that he did was for money, my
:02:18. > :02:26.brother and myself. To give us the best start in life that he possibly
:02:27. > :02:36.could. What a role-model. He had all the characteristics of a
:02:36. > :02:40.perfect daddy. David Black had been a prison officer for three decades,
:02:40. > :02:43.his career stretching back to some of the worst times of the Troubles.
:02:43. > :02:47.In recent years, he had been based at Maghaberry Prison, just over ten
:02:47. > :02:51.miles away from here. At half seven last Thursday morning, as he was
:02:51. > :02:55.driving to work along this stretch of the M1 close to Lurgan, his
:02:55. > :03:01.killers struck. The shooting has caused deep upset
:03:01. > :03:06.in David Black's home town. community are behind the family and
:03:06. > :03:11.are very surprised and shocked at this time that we are going back to
:03:11. > :03:17.the Troubles. We thought it was over. It is not what we want.
:03:17. > :03:21.shocked to be fair. I do know the family. It was a shock because we
:03:21. > :03:27.thought those days was over and gone and that everything had moved
:03:27. > :03:32.on. A lot of people are disgusted. I know his wife. She was a district
:03:32. > :03:37.nurse for my mum and she was a lovely woman. Life is hard enough
:03:37. > :03:43.without your loved one and father and husband been wiped away on his
:03:43. > :03:46.way to work. David Black had grown up in the Cookstown area. According
:03:46. > :03:49.to the Prison Service, his work at Maghaberry would not have brought
:03:49. > :03:52.him into close, direct contact with dissident republicans. As such, he
:03:53. > :03:58.may not even have considered himself a potential target. Was he
:03:58. > :04:04.concerned about his security? never mentioned it. He went about
:04:04. > :04:10.talking to people, anybody that he met, both himself and his wife, who
:04:10. > :04:14.is very well thought of. The whole family are well thought of in the
:04:14. > :04:18.Cookstown area. David just went about talking to people as normal.
:04:18. > :04:20.Praise for David Black has come from some unlikely sources. This
:04:21. > :04:27.former INLA prisoner recalls the kindness Mr Black showed to him
:04:27. > :04:32.while he was inside. No, I don't believe he would ever suspect that
:04:32. > :04:39.he would be a target. I don't think he ever thought anybody would hate
:04:39. > :04:44.him that way. I don't think he would have thought that he had done
:04:44. > :04:51.anything on republicans to have hurt him, I have never heard about
:04:51. > :04:55.it from any republican that I know. But these men on not republican.
:04:55. > :05:02.What is the feeling among republicans that you know about his
:05:02. > :05:08.death? Anger, pure anger, anger, hatred. To claim to do this in our
:05:08. > :05:11.name. Stop. David Black's family has stated
:05:11. > :05:16.that there should be no retaliation for the murder of the man whose
:05:16. > :05:22.killing has shattered their lives. While his funeral was taking place
:05:23. > :05:24.in Cookstown, a vigil in his memory was being held at Belfast City Hall.
:05:25. > :05:31.Hundreds of people attended, including leading figures from
:05:31. > :05:39.loyalism. It is a tragedy. People are definitely trying to take us
:05:39. > :05:43.back to the dark old days and the unfortunate thing... We pray that
:05:43. > :05:45.the authorities deal with him. Don't get drawn into this what ever
:05:45. > :05:48.you do. His killers succeeded in murdering
:05:48. > :05:56.David Black, but they failed to extinguish the positive impact he
:05:56. > :06:01.had on other people's lives. He was a family man, he enjoyed a joke. He
:06:01. > :06:10.always had a smile on his face. I think that is the lasting memory
:06:10. > :06:16.that I will have of him. Kate Carroll has some idea of what the
:06:16. > :06:21.Blacks are suffering now. Her husband was murdered at as he
:06:21. > :06:28.answered a call in Craigavon in 2009. You said that this tragedy
:06:29. > :06:32.has brought your own immediate tragedy back in every detail.
:06:32. > :06:42.remembered the day the police came to the door to tell me what
:06:42. > :06:43.
:06:43. > :06:46.happened. I had heard the news from a friend of mine, and I could see
:06:46. > :06:51.all the peoples at there, I was sat in disbelief wondering what had
:06:51. > :06:57.happened, how could it have happened, particularly in a time of
:06:57. > :07:06.peace. It is not fair at the end of the day that the man wore a uniform
:07:06. > :07:10.and because he wore a uniform, the dehumanised him, to shoot him. I
:07:10. > :07:17.know what that lady is going through and it is so hard. So it
:07:17. > :07:22.very, very hard. And the pain does not ever go away. No. You learn to
:07:22. > :07:26.live with it but it never goes away. When things like this happen, it
:07:26. > :07:32.stirs up all the feelings and they all come back. Because you know
:07:32. > :07:38.what is given to happen. You know how those people will feel, what it
:07:38. > :07:42.has done to the families, the devastation. You must have hoped
:07:43. > :07:49.that theirs will be the last death. I did with Steve. I thought that
:07:49. > :07:54.would be it, it was a one-off and it would never happen again, but
:07:54. > :08:00.unfortunately it has happened again and it is devastating news.
:08:00. > :08:05.your son, a grown man, has taken it particularly hard. He suffers from
:08:05. > :08:10.depression. He has never been the same. It has had a tragic effect on
:08:11. > :08:20.him and even on my granddaughters. She comes to my house and she wants
:08:21. > :08:22.
:08:22. > :08:28.to know where grand pas has gone and why he left. My some's life is
:08:28. > :08:34.in tatters. Two men were convicted for his murder. Is that good for
:08:34. > :08:40.you? It was but at the end of the day, there are more about there. It
:08:40. > :08:48.has not taken it away. It has less and the pain because I know they
:08:48. > :08:55.are in sight. -- inside. But there are more. What message would you
:08:55. > :09:01.give? It hasn't helped, what you have done to Steve, it hasn't
:09:01. > :09:07.helped what you have done in any way. The message I give to them is,
:09:07. > :09:13.for goodness sake, listen to your Peers, realise that men have gone
:09:13. > :09:17.to the moon, we can get messages around the world in five seconds
:09:18. > :09:25.where it used to be five days. Can we not take our message on board
:09:25. > :09:28.that people have lives to live, that people are doing a job? They
:09:28. > :09:34.are not targets and it is inhumane to shoot and kill people for no
:09:34. > :09:39.reason. We will be talking to the justice minister in a few minutes.
:09:39. > :09:45.What do you say? I would ask him to look at the Sanson -- sentencing
:09:45. > :09:49.tariffs and prisons. Try to make life a deterrent, do something that
:09:49. > :09:55.would be a deterrent to those people, that would stop them from
:09:55. > :10:01.hurting anybody else. I know you have left messages for the Black
:10:01. > :10:05.family. What message would you give them tonight? To be strong. Not let
:10:05. > :10:09.this turn you better. Take something positive act of the
:10:09. > :10:14.negativity and move your life on as well as you possibly can. And as
:10:15. > :10:20.you are doing with the Steve Carroll Foundation. Exactly. We are
:10:20. > :10:25.trying to raise awareness for young Peace builders, to give children a
:10:25. > :10:30.way forward, give them a more productive something to do in life
:10:30. > :10:37.other than drugs and drink and getting entrenched in all of this
:10:37. > :10:41.madness. Thank you very much indeed. The last murder of the prison
:10:41. > :10:47.officer was almost 20 years ago but prison staff and their families
:10:47. > :10:54.have continued to live closely guarded lives. This report on what
:10:54. > :10:56.it is like to live always looking over your shoulder.
:10:56. > :11:03.From behind these gates, paramilitaries continue to play
:11:03. > :11:06.power games with government. Prisons and politics have always
:11:06. > :11:15.been able to rock each other. Last Thursday, Northern Ireland was
:11:15. > :11:18.reminded of that in the most brutal way. Since the closure of the Maze,
:11:18. > :11:21.loyalist and republican terrorists have been housed in Maghaberry. The
:11:21. > :11:25.prison officers' job is to keep them under lock and key, and they
:11:25. > :11:28.know that for that, they know their lives are at risk. One prison
:11:28. > :11:38.officer who doesn't want to be identified says staff anticipated
:11:38. > :11:40.
:11:40. > :11:46.This attack on David, I think there is obviously shock and surprise
:11:46. > :11:53.that it happened. Unfortunately David, has lost his life because of
:11:53. > :11:59.these cowards. Staff have been aware for a number of months, 12 or
:11:59. > :12:05.18 months, that an attack is likely. The killing follows the murders two
:12:05. > :12:10.years ago of soldiers at Massereene and a police officer in Craigavon.
:12:10. > :12:15.Another PSNI member was killed in a Omagh last year. Dissident
:12:15. > :12:19.republicans want copy the tactics of their predecessors. If you want
:12:19. > :12:23.to be the IRA, you do all the things they did, you shoot police
:12:23. > :12:29.officers, members of the security forces, police officers, they are
:12:29. > :12:32.trying to be the IRA. David Black's murder is a reminder of the
:12:32. > :12:41.sacrifice that prison officers have paid in the past, sacrifices that
:12:41. > :12:45.Finlay Spratt do not have not been recognised. There was a. It work
:12:45. > :12:51.about 10 prison officers were killed in my year. It that time,
:12:51. > :12:55.prison officers in my view would be cannon fodder. News of this latest
:12:55. > :13:01.murder has brought back acute and painful memories for her Beryl
:13:01. > :13:05.Quigley. Her first husband was murdered by the IRA in 1984. At the
:13:05. > :13:11.time, he was assistant governor of the Maze prison. It was a Tuesday
:13:11. > :13:17.morning. He was dressed in his best new suit. We said our goodbyes, we
:13:17. > :13:21.had hugs and kisses and myself and our little doctor, three and a half,
:13:21. > :13:27.we are escorted him out to the car and they were still chatting as he
:13:27. > :13:32.walked to the driver's door. They were on him in a matter of seconds
:13:32. > :13:36.and the first gunman, he probably ended all of his gun into him, shot
:13:36. > :13:40.him in their head and into his heart through his wallet. I had his
:13:40. > :13:46.wallet with the bullet mark on it. The price paid by prison officers
:13:46. > :13:50.reflects the fact that prisons have often been a key battleground in
:13:50. > :13:54.the Republicans so-called armed struggle. Behind these walls, I
:13:54. > :13:57.knew power-struggle has been ongoing between prisoners and the
:13:58. > :14:02.authorities. Over 30 dissident Republican inmates have been on a
:14:02. > :14:06.dirty protest and have been taking part on on of hunger strikes. They
:14:06. > :14:10.have been asking for an end to strip searching and demanding the
:14:10. > :14:15.introduction of new body scanning machines. They're asking for
:14:15. > :14:19.greater freedom of movement. Prison protests can get more sympathy than
:14:19. > :14:25.the armed campaign especially if you can present at the prisoners as
:14:25. > :14:30.it being badly treated. The protests of that sort only really
:14:30. > :14:35.stop when prisoners get control of the wings. That is exactly what
:14:35. > :14:40.paramilitary prisoners are appeared to have in the 1980s and 1990s.
:14:40. > :14:45.reality is that officers working in the houses in the Maze were message
:14:45. > :14:48.boys for the paramilitaries. These people want to get back to the same
:14:48. > :14:54.situation where prison officers are the message boys and they are in
:14:54. > :14:59.charge. To some officers at least, it seems as though the dissidents
:14:59. > :15:06.tactics are working today. They want more. I think because they are
:15:06. > :15:11.not getting more, they are slowly but surely turning the ante up and
:15:11. > :15:16.a member of staff are -- staff has paid the ultimate price. A another
:15:16. > :15:20.officer says the prisoners are wearing down morale. Be seen to be
:15:20. > :15:25.bending over for them. It is bending over and the staff have to
:15:25. > :15:31.take the consequences. They are expected to work with the walls
:15:31. > :15:37.smeared, pace under the doors... You get it in-your-face if you open
:15:37. > :15:41.the door. Tension between a prison staff and inmates is highly, with
:15:41. > :15:46.both serving and retiring officers worried about their security. Tommy
:15:46. > :15:51.is one of those leaving soon. The day after day the Black's murder he
:15:51. > :15:55.received a letter saying that he will have to hand back his gun when
:15:55. > :16:00.he goes. How will be left without a weapon and have to apply for a
:16:00. > :16:05.personal weapon and it will take between his 6 R eight weeks. Prison
:16:05. > :16:10.officer market lives with his gun at his side and an attempt on his
:16:10. > :16:15.life has left him feeling he needs it more than ever. The sad thing is
:16:15. > :16:19.it you're gonna becomes part of you, it is not normal, but we are not in
:16:19. > :16:23.a normal society as prison officers. For everyone connected with the
:16:23. > :16:29.Prison Service, the latest murder has intensified an enduring sense
:16:29. > :16:36.of suffering. You are left with all this grief, all this loss, you do
:16:36. > :16:41.not the used to it, you'd love with the constant loss and devastation
:16:41. > :16:45.and loneliness. That loss was inflicted by a previous generation
:16:45. > :16:50.that has left murder behind, Beryl wants dissident republicans to do
:16:50. > :16:55.the same. You need to sit down and top. Surely that is a better way
:16:55. > :17:01.forward than trying to start something all over again at that
:17:01. > :17:04.did not achieve an awful lot it been as much as killing does under-
:17:04. > :17:10.achiever. The question is will the dissident republicans who murdered
:17:10. > :17:14.David Black ever believe that? The Justice Minister David Ford
:17:14. > :17:20.joins me now. You were at the funeral today, do believe his
:17:20. > :17:23.murder was part of this campaign at Maghaberry? Let me say first of all,
:17:23. > :17:27.because I have just come from the funeral, that the first thing we
:17:27. > :17:32.should do is express our sympathy to the family and his colleagues.
:17:32. > :17:36.What we heard of him today amplified what I heard last week,
:17:36. > :17:43.of the fine prison officer he was, the care he had for those he had to
:17:43. > :17:47.look after, and what he was as a family man. He was spoken about in
:17:47. > :17:51.good terms by the prisoners as well. They were prisoners to be there
:17:51. > :17:55.when I was there last Friday morning. Let me ask you again, do
:17:55. > :18:00.you think his murder is part of the campaign at Maghaberry? I am not
:18:00. > :18:04.sure whether those who murdered him needed any excuse about what is
:18:04. > :18:08.happening in the prison. It seems that some of them are wedded to a
:18:08. > :18:12.struggle rather than any potential outcome. They know it will not make
:18:12. > :18:16.any difference other than to cause a grief and worry to families like
:18:16. > :18:19.the black family. We know that they have the capacity to carry out
:18:19. > :18:23.these random acts of great thoughtlessness, great
:18:23. > :18:27.heartlessness, but it will not make any difference. It will not make
:18:27. > :18:31.any difference to the political situation or to the peace process
:18:31. > :18:35.were to the running of prisons. do you respond to what the prison
:18:35. > :18:38.officer said in the films at, that concessions are being made and they
:18:38. > :18:44.feel they are bending over backwards for the prisoners and the
:18:44. > :18:47.staff have to take the strain of that? I do not except about
:18:48. > :18:52.concessions are being made. The staff who have to deal with the
:18:52. > :18:57.dissident Republican prisoners have an extraordinarily difficult job to
:18:57. > :19:01.do which is being done with extreme professionalism and they are up
:19:01. > :19:04.holding the higher standards and there is no doubt that that is
:19:04. > :19:09.wearing to them but I do not accept that concessions are being made.
:19:09. > :19:14.There was an agreement made in August, 2010 as to how it would be
:19:14. > :19:20.managed, that has been broken, broken by a Republican prisoners...
:19:20. > :19:25.They say that you Brocket. In it is on the Prison Service website. It
:19:25. > :19:34.has been broken up by those who have threatened and now murdered a
:19:34. > :19:37.prison officer. They believe it has been relied upon by her office.
:19:37. > :19:42.Caral Ni Chuilin is wrong. It has been upheld by the Prison Service.
:19:42. > :19:45.Some of the work that we are doing a round of the technological
:19:45. > :19:49.alternative to for a body searching goes beyond the agreement. It is
:19:49. > :19:52.trying to make a better situation for both staff and prisoners. I do
:19:53. > :19:56.not accept that there is anything we have failed on but it it's
:19:56. > :20:00.absolutely clear that those who have threatened and now killed a
:20:00. > :20:03.prison officer have breached the agreement. It is about strip
:20:03. > :20:08.searching and freedom of movement, do you believe that if agreement
:20:08. > :20:12.was reached, there would be another issue brought up in the pursuit of
:20:12. > :20:16.this wider cost? You heard it suggested on that clip that there
:20:16. > :20:21.will be those who will be looking for more no matter what they get.
:20:21. > :20:24.Full-body searching is carried out the same on every prisoner in
:20:24. > :20:29.Maghaberry prison, whether they are separated or mainstream prisoners,
:20:29. > :20:33.and that is the same that applies in the Gilligan and hidebound word
:20:33. > :20:38.and every prison in England, Wales and Scotland as well. We are not
:20:38. > :20:42.treating Republican prisoners was, we are treating them enshrined
:20:42. > :20:46.implement a humane regime and better for our prison staff. What
:20:46. > :20:52.about this issue of prison officers having to surrender their personal
:20:52. > :20:56.protection weapons even before they have left the service? They feel it
:20:56. > :21:00.very much at risk. No one is asked to surrender their weapons before
:21:00. > :21:05.they leave the service. The particular issue is that normal
:21:05. > :21:08.processes have been taking between 60 eight weeks. In the context
:21:08. > :21:12.where individuals are leaving and having to hand back their weapon
:21:12. > :21:16.are applying for a personal weapon in retirement, that normally has
:21:16. > :21:19.been done within the normal timescale for retirement. Because
:21:19. > :21:22.the voluntary early retirement scheme is moving quicker, we have
:21:23. > :21:26.an agreement between the Department of Justice and the Prison Service
:21:26. > :21:29.and the police service that they will expedite this application so
:21:30. > :21:35.that they should be achieved within a approximately three weeks, in
:21:35. > :21:39.other words less than that time in retirement. A new offer them more
:21:39. > :21:43.protection? The security of prison officers and police officers is
:21:43. > :21:47.under constant review. I have had a number of discussions with the
:21:47. > :21:51.chief Constable as to what we can do to enhance the protection for
:21:51. > :21:55.prison officers, but we have to recognise that we are dealing with
:21:55. > :21:58.a small group of ruthless people who are determined to carry out
:21:58. > :22:02.operations like they carried out last week. They have had a degree
:22:02. > :22:05.of success because of their ruthlessness, but what we are doing
:22:05. > :22:10.is insuring the best possible protection for all those who work
:22:10. > :22:14.in the justice system. Thank you. In recent years, dissident ranks
:22:14. > :22:18.have been strengthened by the defection of more Provisional IRA
:22:18. > :22:22.members. The security services and thus did have thwarted many attacks
:22:22. > :22:26.but the experienced ex IRA figures were held responsible for the
:22:26. > :22:33.killing of two soldiers, two police officers and now a prison officer.
:22:33. > :22:38.Is there a strategy behind the violence. David Black's murder
:22:38. > :22:42.clearly took a degree of planning. It is believed he had been followed
:22:42. > :22:46.by the killers from his home near Cookstown. At the same time, there
:22:46. > :22:53.was a hoax alert at Sprissler us, possibly and aversion the tactic to
:22:53. > :22:56.take that police away from the M1 - - Sprucefield. There is little
:22:56. > :23:05.evidence that dissident republicans are putting as much thought into
:23:05. > :23:09.their final destination. They are flat earth fanatics, living in the
:23:09. > :23:15.dark Ages, spewing out hatred from every pore. The reality is that
:23:15. > :23:20.they have not been able to mount any credible sustainable campaign.
:23:20. > :23:25.The dissidents have shown they can kill people, but beyond that, what
:23:25. > :23:33.they actually trying to achieve? Where in short to do they think
:23:33. > :23:37.they are going? We know where they have come from? The Omagh bombing
:23:37. > :23:42.was supposed to be the death of dissident report the -- support.
:23:42. > :23:48.Since that atrocity, militant republicans opposed to the Good
:23:48. > :23:52.Friday Agreement have regrouped and reorganised. Earlier this year,
:23:52. > :23:56.Henry McDonald was taking over the border to be given a statement,
:23:56. > :24:02.announcing that three dissident groups had merged to form one
:24:02. > :24:05.organisation. He says that the men he met display to forensic
:24:05. > :24:10.awareness. My personal impression was that these people were quite
:24:10. > :24:14.well organised. They had fought out a plan, how they would deliver the
:24:14. > :24:19.statement with the least possible risk to them. I had to leave my
:24:20. > :24:23.mobile phone, my notebook, I took a page and a pencil, and searched --
:24:23. > :24:30.I was searched and I had to copy a statement it verbatim with my
:24:30. > :24:35.pencil and paper. The original statement was then burnt. It was
:24:35. > :24:39.all very professional, cold, co- ordinated and well organised and
:24:39. > :24:43.clearly indicating that they were fearing it surveillance the whole
:24:43. > :24:47.way. So more observers say that dissidents have tightened up
:24:47. > :24:53.internal security to reduce their biggest problem, the team
:24:53. > :24:57.infiltration by the intelligence agencies. Some believe that day the
:24:57. > :25:03.Black's murder showed they are able to give intelligence agencies the
:25:04. > :25:09.slip. The Garda Siochana seemed to me by more on top of human
:25:09. > :25:12.intelligence, the infiltration of these organisations by informers.
:25:12. > :25:15.The PSNI are suffering from an intelligence gap. The intelligence
:25:15. > :25:18.picture will never be complete. There is the opportunity of
:25:18. > :25:24.something like this happening and it has happened and probably will
:25:25. > :25:28.happen again. Do not underestimate how good the security services have
:25:28. > :25:35.been. They have been very up there in terms of the profile and they
:25:35. > :25:40.have actually, I am sure we do not know the half of what goes on.
:25:40. > :25:43.car used by David Black's killers was abandoned in Lurgan but
:25:43. > :25:47.security services have told Spotlight they believed the murder
:25:47. > :25:52.was carried out by dissidents from East Tyrone who are mainly former
:25:52. > :25:58.Provisional IRA members. According to experts, they used to support
:25:58. > :26:03.Sinn Fein. In the initial peace process phase, some members felt
:26:03. > :26:05.the initiative of which Mr Adams and Mr McGuinness should be given a
:26:05. > :26:09.chance who in recent years have felt that the project is not
:26:09. > :26:13.working in the way they were promised, that the progress towards
:26:13. > :26:17.Republican goals had not been as cast are substantial as they like.
:26:17. > :26:21.My big concern is the experience of the Provisional IRA coming back
:26:21. > :26:25.into it configures and that is borne out by the number of types of
:26:25. > :26:30.incidents that were happening. It is really another take on 15 or 20
:26:30. > :26:35.years ago. The government says there has been a 20% drop in the
:26:35. > :26:40.number of attacks this year, but there is evidence that the addition
:26:40. > :26:44.of former Provisionals has made the dissidents more deadly. Last month,
:26:44. > :26:50.by new and dangerous type of explosive device was found in the
:26:50. > :26:54.Ardoyne in north Belfast. This is the same kind of device. It is
:26:54. > :27:03.packed with Semtex and returns a compact Kohn of copper into a
:27:03. > :27:09.modern jet. One American peers armour-plating. It is a serious
:27:09. > :27:14.advance on anything the Provisional IRA used. While in their ability to
:27:14. > :27:21.kill it may have been enhanced, mainstream republicans argue that
:27:21. > :27:26.dissidence fall far short of being any kind of political force. Shone
:27:26. > :27:30.Mary was once an IRA leader, seen here in 1988 at the funeral of one
:27:30. > :27:37.of three IRA members who was killed in Gibraltar. Now a senior figure
:27:37. > :27:42.in Sinn Fein, he says at the level of dissident support is minimal.
:27:42. > :27:49.am a community acted that the -- activists and I do not to take --
:27:49. > :27:53.detect any support. If you look at their operational profile, of the
:27:53. > :27:57.not indicate to me that they have mass support either. Looking at all
:27:57. > :28:07.those sort of parameters, I do not see detect any support for their
:28:07. > :28:09.
:28:09. > :28:13.campaign. In nationalist areas, the graffiti on the wall is reminiscent
:28:13. > :28:17.of the 1980s, Against the dissidents a visible presence, but
:28:17. > :28:20.one we asked their political representatives in the Newry,
:28:20. > :28:28.Lurgan and here in Belfast to top on camera, they all decline the
:28:28. > :28:32.offer. Before the murder of David Black, Spotlight did put the
:28:32. > :28:35.question of political strategy to a leading member of the dissident 32
:28:35. > :28:45.County Sovreignty Movement. Do dissident republicans have a
:28:45. > :28:46.
:28:46. > :28:53.political strategy? Dissident republicans, they believe in truth,
:28:53. > :28:58.justice, sovereignty, it is a noble aspiration. High that is achieved,
:28:58. > :29:02.unfortunately, is in hands of those who occupy part of Ireland. It will
:29:02. > :29:08.be a long and hard road for Republicans, it has been going on
:29:08. > :29:12.for 800 years and I do not think anyone is under any illusion that
:29:12. > :29:18.it will be a short haul. dissidents are trying to use the
:29:18. > :29:22.prisons issue as a way of building support, but he argues they will
:29:22. > :29:27.fail because they do not have the same kind of political strategy
:29:27. > :29:31.that underpinned the Provisional IRA's campaign. What do you think
:29:31. > :29:35.their strategy is? A I cannot to attack any. Some of them would have
:29:35. > :29:38.been former friends of mine, but there have been fall-outs over
:29:38. > :29:43.policy and the direction that the Republican movement is moving in.
:29:43. > :29:46.That is their choice. I would like them to tell me, some of his been
:29:46. > :29:50.active in Republican politics for 40 years, what is there a strategy
:29:50. > :29:56.of how they're going to achieve it, Republican objectives, because I
:29:56. > :30:01.cannot see it and I cannot see it, how can other people see it? Visit
:30:01. > :30:06.their Ian to keep a terrorist campaign it ticking over, hoping it
:30:06. > :30:09.will Sunday reignite and bring it to a united Ireland? What they do
:30:09. > :30:13.have is a way of keeping the flame burning, I would suggest that they
:30:13. > :30:17.will be able to carry on some form of low-level campaign into the
:30:17. > :30:26.future, but I do not think the conditions by their politically and
:30:26. > :30:29.in terms of attitudes in the nationalist community. We should
:30:29. > :30:35.probably get used to trying to manage it rather than see that will
:30:35. > :30:40.go away. Deadly and death to any persuasion, the dissidents
:30:40. > :30:50.campaigner look set to carry on as a constant legal danger. With no
:30:50. > :31:17.
:31:18. > :31:23.exit in sight. Are we are joined by Both of those children spoke over
:31:23. > :31:28.the coffin of their father this afternoon. He was a public servant,
:31:28. > :31:33.like a primary school teacher and a nurse is, and he was doing a job
:31:33. > :31:38.for all of us in the public arena, so the answer lies in the community.
:31:38. > :31:43.The community will respond. Somebody knows he provided the safe
:31:43. > :31:48.house. Somebody knows who provided the gun. Somebody knows whether
:31:48. > :31:55.people went after they burnt out the car. As community we have to
:31:55. > :32:00.choose, do we stand on the side of the David Blacks? His murder was
:32:00. > :32:05.unjustified and unjustifiable. The 29 other murders of prison officers
:32:05. > :32:10.were equally unjustified and unjustifiable. This community will
:32:10. > :32:20.choose life over death. Everybody I spoke to, from all different
:32:20. > :32:20.
:32:21. > :32:30.sections of the community... They will support public servants to a
:32:31. > :32:31.
:32:31. > :32:37.brave and courageous and do an important job. Shaun Murray it was
:32:37. > :32:46.saying he has former friends who are now members and that must be
:32:46. > :32:52.true for many republicans. As you said, Mark McGuinness, myself and
:32:52. > :32:57.many of my colleagues have said over the years that we are very
:32:57. > :33:03.keen to support the police. We have given our full support to policing
:33:03. > :33:08.and that remains our decision. We have also said, and we are
:33:08. > :33:12.repeating it, that policing needs to win in the community. Other
:33:12. > :33:17.senior police officers will tell you they are getting unprecedented
:33:17. > :33:24.levels of support from republicans in the community and that is a good
:33:24. > :33:28.thing. The police need to continue building the confidence of the
:33:28. > :33:33.republican community. Your community knows more about these
:33:33. > :33:38.people than the PSNI das? That remains to be seen. I could tell
:33:38. > :33:45.you people who have walked away from me as a friend because of what
:33:45. > :33:50.could be a policy issue. Most of it seems quite personal. I have to say.
:33:50. > :33:56.A lot of it is quite petty but some of it is policy based and that is
:33:56. > :34:00.fair enough. People are entitled to not support Sinn Fein's political
:34:00. > :34:04.analysis of the situation. If people are engaged in activities
:34:04. > :34:10.like this, they shouldn't be and if anybody knows anything, they should
:34:10. > :34:13.report it to the relevant authority. I say this publicly, the police
:34:13. > :34:22.tell us they are getting unprecedented levels of co-
:34:22. > :34:30.operation felt I do not accept that the PSNI and other organisations...
:34:30. > :34:34.I have no doubt that organisations are well penetrated by the PSNI and
:34:34. > :34:39.other security organisations, so I suggest the police and other people
:34:39. > :34:44.know a lot more about what is going on in these organisations than the
:34:44. > :34:54.people on the street. Kate Campbell said tougher sentencing and a
:34:54. > :35:00.
:35:00. > :35:03.tougher regime in prison could prevent this? -- Kate Carroll.
:35:03. > :35:09.people are determined on doing these reckless murders, nothing
:35:09. > :35:14.will prevent them and deter them. do not accept that. These issues
:35:14. > :35:19.went around when they murdered 29 people and two unborn children in
:35:19. > :35:24.Omagh, and Massereene. This is not about whether a prisoner has access
:35:24. > :35:28.to Sky TV. I have comes from people in my own constituency this morning
:35:28. > :35:35.who cannot afford their telephone bill, pensioners who are making a
:35:35. > :35:43.choice tonight... If so would a stricter regime worked or not?
:35:43. > :35:48.is not an issue of prisoner who has access to Sky TV and heating when
:35:48. > :35:51.people on the outside did not have any of those luxuries. What needs
:35:51. > :35:58.to happen is prison officers need to have the full support of the
:35:58. > :36:03.community. I think they do have that. Secondly, where prison
:36:03. > :36:13.officers are under threat, their cameras and security equipment must
:36:13. > :36:17.be at the highest level possible. They need a regime to ensure the
:36:17. > :36:22.utmost security. I am not sure this is anything to do with whether you
:36:22. > :36:27.have access to Sky TV in prison. This is about people who have
:36:27. > :36:31.murdered an innocent public servant and the community will respond.
:36:31. > :36:38.What can the republican community do to make these people go away and
:36:38. > :36:40.stop what they are doing? It has given a very clear message.
:36:41. > :36:45.Whenever any individuals who appeared to be associated with some
:36:45. > :36:49.of this business have put themselves forward to be elected,
:36:49. > :36:53.they have been rejected. I welcome people putting themselves forward
:36:53. > :36:57.but they should take the message to the people giving them. We all work
:36:57. > :37:02.on the ground and in communities. I know there is very little support
:37:02. > :37:06.for this kind of activity. People have already made their choices.
:37:06. > :37:10.They are still killing. A small number of people continued that
:37:10. > :37:15.because over the last number of years we have had the formations
:37:15. > :37:20.and amalgamations and more factions coming together and nuclides. It
:37:20. > :37:24.has not made a bit of difference to their effectiveness. I would urge
:37:24. > :37:28.people who have integrity and to may be associated with them to
:37:28. > :37:33.think again because they are not going to support -- win the support
:37:33. > :37:38.of the republican community. They will never reclaim the IRA. People
:37:38. > :37:43.may not like me saying this but some people respected what the IRA
:37:43. > :37:47.did over many years, and that is not applicable today. There is no
:37:47. > :37:51.support nor respect for what they are doing at this moment in time. I
:37:51. > :38:01.would urge them to desist with bat and join the rest of us republicans
:38:01. > :38:02.
:38:02. > :38:06.trying to deliver. Do you agree that it will be a long haul? I am
:38:06. > :38:10.not sure but it is clear that a small group of people can carry on
:38:10. > :38:15.criminal activity for some time. What we have is an exceptionally
:38:15. > :38:19.good police effort against them. We have strong cross-border
:38:19. > :38:23.corporations, full and increasing public support in every part of
:38:23. > :38:26.Northern Ireland, so the ingredients are there to
:38:26. > :38:31.demonstrate what this community wants and to stand up against them
:38:31. > :38:37.but nonetheless, this kind of criminal activity can continue.
:38:37. > :38:41.party has been very strong about sectarianism, do you think that
:38:41. > :38:45.contributes to an atmosphere to allow dissident activity? The best
:38:45. > :38:49.thing we can do is to ensure the good work we do to get that is
:38:49. > :38:56.carried on to great effect. We have good Corporation on the economy. It
:38:56. > :38:58.has been less good in other areas. This is a message to us. It is sad
:38:58. > :39:03.when we are coming together in condemnation rather than in working
:39:03. > :39:07.even better together than we are already doing. Do you believe that
:39:07. > :39:11.the example set instalment can be seen to be an encouragement to
:39:11. > :39:17.people who say it there is no settlement here? We are working
:39:17. > :39:23.hard. Next week I will be the First Minister and Deputy First Minister
:39:23. > :39:29.in China trying to attract jobs in Northern Ireland. Tourism is always
:39:29. > :39:34.wrong. -- terrorism is always wrong. It is our job in government to show
:39:34. > :39:38.a way forward. The that means genuine trust and genuine respect.
:39:38. > :39:46.Do you feel that is there between the two beat power blogs
:39:46. > :39:51.instalment? Many think it is not. - - but two biggest power blocks him
:39:51. > :39:55.at Stormont? Many innocent people lost their lives. 29 prison
:39:55. > :40:00.officers, those murders were equally wrong. Northern Ireland has
:40:00. > :40:05.chosen a new way forward. It has elected politicians to take them
:40:05. > :40:11.forward. We will work hard on the economy and to deliver a genuine
:40:11. > :40:16.link. The First Minister is working very hard on a genuinely a should
:40:16. > :40:19.future together. That is the only way forward. We can still have the
:40:19. > :40:25.Sinn Fein chairman telling Peter Robinson it is time he got with the
:40:25. > :40:29.programme. We are doing a lot of good work, clearly. But we are not
:40:30. > :40:35.doing enough clearly. The parties are working together, yes, and
:40:35. > :40:39.doing as best we can but we need to do an awful lot more. My party and
:40:39. > :40:44.other parties, we need to tackle disadvantage and alienated young
:40:44. > :40:50.people and working-class people, with their in at the village every
:40:50. > :40:55.yet... Let me finish my point. We need to deliver better on the
:40:55. > :40:59.economy to the best of our beliefs. David needs to provide a humane
:40:59. > :41:04.Prison Service which keeps people in custody, works with young people
:41:04. > :41:08.to get them out of custody a better person and that will not reoffend
:41:08. > :41:15.and burgle again and attacked a senior citizen again, and people
:41:15. > :41:19.politically, in a political Oriented activism needs to be
:41:19. > :41:25.treated in a humane way and properly. Anybody in custody for an
:41:25. > :41:30.offence need to be treated in a humane way, it is simple. I agree.
:41:30. > :41:34.The legacy of David Black, what we heard today is testimony to his