Guns and Government

:00:00. > :00:13.Tonight, a Spotlight investigation from Florida on the man who armed

:00:14. > :00:17.the IRA. I said, "if it's guns you are talking about I can get you

:00:18. > :00:23.guns." Mike Logan started his gun running career the year after the

:00:24. > :00:27.IRA cease-fire. I was told to just ignore any

:00:28. > :00:30.headlines that I was reading about that and keep sending the guns.

:00:31. > :00:35.This was the IRA boss who ordered the guns. Sean Murray is today at

:00:36. > :00:37.the heart of the peace process. He's been in the Sinn Fein delegation at

:00:38. > :00:42.the Haass talks, and in the thick of been in the Sinn Fein delegation at

:00:43. > :00:45.parading disputes. But tonight we uncover the shocking truth about

:00:46. > :00:55.Sean Murray's gun running years during the peace process.

:00:56. > :01:01.Unless they were planning some Tet offensive type of coup, then they

:01:02. > :01:04.really had no need of further arms. We see the human cost inflicted by

:01:05. > :01:11.the weapons Logan says Murray imported.

:01:12. > :01:15.And one time he circled a couple of them and he said that one there had

:01:16. > :01:21.been used in an operation that had happened in Lurgan.

:01:22. > :01:26.We ask why the American government gave a gun-runner immunity from

:01:27. > :01:30.prosecution. I have no risk for any of the

:01:31. > :01:37.activities that I did for the IRA. I can't be arrested. I have immunity.

:01:38. > :01:39.And Spotlight examines to what extent a blind eye has been turned

:01:40. > :02:04.to save the peace. We've come to Florida, one of the

:02:05. > :02:11.world's most popular destinations for sun seekers. It's also been a

:02:12. > :02:20.favourite destination for the IRA - a perfect marketplace for buying

:02:21. > :02:24.guns. For the past three months we've been tracking a man who was

:02:25. > :02:31.one of their key suppliers. He's finally agreed to meet us. Tonight,

:02:32. > :02:35.after ten years of silence, he's telling his story for the first time

:02:36. > :02:44.Mike Logan is third generation Irish and was brought up in Florida. His

:02:45. > :02:55.interest in Northern Ireland was sparked watching news reports.

:02:56. > :02:59.I was just completely compelled to the story of how people could starve

:03:00. > :03:06.themselves to death for a political cause. His home state attracts

:03:07. > :03:09.thousands of visitors with its year round sunshine, but he went in the

:03:10. > :03:20.opposite direction, drawn towards Troubles tourism. He travelled to

:03:21. > :03:28.Northern Ireland for the first time in the mid-'80s. It was a trip that

:03:29. > :03:32.was to change his life. Everybody has always said that I had a little

:03:33. > :03:36.bit of, you know, that streak for going to the edge. And so, you know,

:03:37. > :03:39.I went to South Armagh, I went to parts of Tyrone that were very

:03:40. > :03:45.dangerous. And I just became friends with people, you know. He soon got

:03:46. > :03:48.more deeply involved. Around ten years after his first visit, a

:03:49. > :03:52.contact in Noraid - the Irish American fund-raising body - gave

:03:53. > :04:03.him a number for an IRA man in Belfast. We took a black taxi up the

:04:04. > :04:06.Falls Road, we went through some a lot of cloak and dagger type

:04:07. > :04:14.activity to arrive at the location on the Springfield Road. I had no

:04:15. > :04:19.idea where we were going, who I was meeting, what I was doing. And I was

:04:20. > :04:26.taken to meet a gentleman. Mike Logan was about to meet a very

:04:27. > :04:30.senior IRA man. And he asked me how can you help us out and I really

:04:31. > :04:48.didn't know what he was talking about. And he seemed a little upset

:04:49. > :04:52.and frustrated. And I finally kind of got it, and I said "are you

:04:53. > :04:55.talking about guns?", and he kind of gave me some body language to

:04:56. > :04:59.indicate that that was in fact what he was talking about. And I said,

:05:00. > :05:02."if it's guns you are talking about, I can get you guns." And I said, "I

:05:03. > :05:05.know a lot about guns, I can get you guns." And I said, "I

:05:06. > :05:09.guns for myself already in Florida. Let me know what you want and I will

:05:10. > :05:13.get them, it's pretty much that simple." I didn't know what the

:05:14. > :05:18.gentleman's name was at that point. I later came to know that his name

:05:19. > :05:22.was Sean Murray or Spike Murray. He said just get the guns and somebody

:05:23. > :05:26.would contact me and would give me instructions on how and where to

:05:27. > :05:30.send them. So you were in no doubt at that

:05:31. > :05:37.stage what you were being asked to do by Sean Murray? No doubt. You had

:05:38. > :05:43.no qualms about that. No. Sean 'Spike' Murray had strong Republican

:05:44. > :05:49.credentials. He joined the IRA at the age of 16 and was interned

:05:50. > :05:53.shortly after. In the early '80s, he was part of a bombing team and

:05:54. > :06:00.served seven years' time in the Maze prison on explosives charges. He's

:06:01. > :06:02.seen here carrying the coffin of his cousin Dan McCann, who was killed by

:06:03. > :06:20.the SAS in Gibraltar in 1988. These days he's heavily involved in

:06:21. > :06:24.the peace process. Last week we caught up with him in West Belfast

:06:25. > :06:29.at a cross community talk on sectarianism. He sits on around

:06:30. > :06:38.seven peace groups, dealing with issues from parading, to conflict

:06:39. > :06:48.resolution. And recently was part of the Sinn Fein delegation at the

:06:49. > :06:51.Haass talks. But in the summer of 1995 when he was ordering guns from

:06:52. > :06:57.America, he represented the two faces of Republicanism - a military

:06:58. > :07:05.hardliner and a political activist. In this demonstration, he's calling

:07:06. > :07:11.for sinn Fein to get into talks. A year later, he was reported to be

:07:12. > :07:14.the IRA's new chief of staff. He kept a low profile, but security

:07:15. > :07:32.sources believed he was a powerful player on the Northern Command and

:07:33. > :07:35.on the Army council. He's certainly on the northern

:07:36. > :07:38.command staff and he may well be the commander of it, a number of

:07:39. > :07:39.security sources would say that, he would be in

:07:40. > :07:43.security sources would say that, he operations in Northern Ireland.

:07:44. > :07:46.We've also been told one of his roles was to raise money for IRA

:07:47. > :07:50.operations. At this stage, Mike Logan was enjoying the high life, he

:07:51. > :07:53.was a wealthy man, working as stockbroker. What was the

:07:54. > :07:57.relationship like between the two of you? It was, you know, it was, I

:07:58. > :08:04.think, mutual respect. I liked him as a person. Did you socialise with

:08:05. > :08:10.him, did you meet his family? Yeah, I mean, I had been to his house. I

:08:11. > :08:14.met his wife and at one point he suggested that we meet someplace and

:08:15. > :08:23.it turned out that it was his mother and father's house.

:08:24. > :08:37.What's shocking about Mike Logan's gun running career, was that it

:08:38. > :08:40.started in 1995. The year after the IRA announced its cease-fire, Spike

:08:41. > :08:51.Murray was ordering his first batch of guns from Mike Logan. At the

:08:52. > :08:56.time, the peace process was gathering momentum. Just one of the

:08:57. > :09:02.many historic moments was the first visit of an American president to

:09:03. > :09:14.Northern Ireland. Blessed are the peacemakers for they shall inherit

:09:15. > :09:22.the earth. In this and God bless you all.

:09:23. > :09:23.But behind the scenes, a very different cross-Atlantic

:09:24. > :09:29.relationship was developing between Mike Logan and a highly

:09:30. > :09:39.relationship was developing between Sean Murray. I would describe him as

:09:40. > :09:42.ultra, ultra security conscious. The IRA believed that there was British

:09:43. > :09:45.surveillance everywhere, that they could hear through the walls with

:09:46. > :09:54.different devices and so forth. So he usually wrote stuff down, we

:09:55. > :09:57.didn't talk. Mike Logan would visit Northern

:09:58. > :10:00.Ireland around twice a year, usually in July and December and would meet

:10:01. > :10:10.up with his IRA contact Spike Murray. And he would write a list of

:10:11. > :10:14.guns that had been received and say, "is that what you sent?" And I would

:10:15. > :10:19.look at it just by memory and say, "yep, those are those". And

:10:20. > :10:25.look at it just by memory and say, when we were done he would burn it

:10:26. > :10:35.and then scatter the ashes. So, there was no talking. The two men

:10:36. > :10:39.operated with military precision. Logan always used fake addresses and

:10:40. > :10:47.posted his parcels where there was no CCTV. The cash was either posted

:10:48. > :10:54.directly to him or given to him on his trips to Northern Ireland. He

:10:55. > :10:57.found it all very easy. At that point you were able to actually look

:10:58. > :11:01.in the classified ads of local newspapers and they had a section in

:11:02. > :11:07.there for either sporting goods or firearms. And somebody had a firearm

:11:08. > :11:13.to sell, they put their phone number in there they described the weapon.

:11:14. > :11:20.I would call them up, go see him pay him some cash and walk away with the

:11:21. > :11:29.gun. It is called private sale. Totally legal and there was no

:11:30. > :11:37.paperwork involved. He was inventive in his methods. I was told by the

:11:38. > :11:47.IRA to find a toy that you had to unscrew. I was told the customs

:11:48. > :11:54.officials would be too lazy to unscrew it themselves and check. He

:11:55. > :11:58.hit on toy fire engines as the best way to conceal and post the guns I

:11:59. > :12:04.was a regular customer here, sometimes I would buy four or five

:12:05. > :12:13.at a time. I brought them home the kids would play with them and I'd

:12:14. > :12:19.pack them up and ship them off. I could put two guns, typically two

:12:20. > :12:27.pistols. And we also put some ammunition in there, maybe about 20

:12:28. > :12:30.bullets or so. You couldn't tell much difference between the weight

:12:31. > :12:40.of the vehicle empty and with the guns in it. So it was almost

:12:41. > :12:46.perfect, it worked for a long time. He once used a toy washing machine.

:12:47. > :12:58.It made it to the other side, but Spike told me he'd received it, but

:12:59. > :13:02.he was rolling his eyes. He said, it was just too easy, you just open up

:13:03. > :13:06.the top and they were there. It didn't always go according to plan -

:13:07. > :13:10.one of the packages was returned when it was sent to an address that

:13:11. > :13:14.didn't exist. Next time I got a chance to go to Ireland, you know, I

:13:15. > :13:22.was furious and said, "your screw up almost got me arrested". And he,

:13:23. > :13:30.Spike, told me, "we will change the methods". He would give me a sheet

:13:31. > :13:33.of paper with about six different addresses on it, all in the Irish

:13:34. > :13:39.Republic, usually in border counties. In total, Mike Logan

:13:40. > :13:49.bought around 400 guns for the IRA in a five-year gun running career

:13:50. > :13:58.lasting from 1995 to 1999. It was all types of pistols at

:13:59. > :14:08.first. 357 magnums, 9mms, other different calibres. You know, there

:14:09. > :14:13.was one specific time where Spike said, "man, if you could get a Glock

:14:14. > :14:24.that would be phenomenal". At that point he told me the IRA did not

:14:25. > :14:37.have any of those weapons. By the middle of 1997 the peace

:14:38. > :14:40.process was floundering. The IRA had ended their cease-fire 18 months

:14:41. > :14:52.earlier with a massive bomb at London's Docklands. That had put

:14:53. > :14:55.Sinn Fein out of the talks. In May, Tony Blair was elected Prime

:14:56. > :15:03.Minister and brought fresh energy to the process. Straightaway, he

:15:04. > :15:17.appointed Mo Mowlam Secretary of State. They were desperate to get

:15:18. > :15:22.the peace process back on track. A cease-fire is necessary and the ball

:15:23. > :15:26.is in the IRA's court. Within a month the IRA sent a deadly message

:15:27. > :15:38.to the new government using a gun which we have strong reason to

:15:39. > :15:42.believe came from Mike Logan. We start tonight with two murders in

:15:43. > :15:45.Lurgan. The officers were on foot patrol when they were shot at close

:15:46. > :15:52.range. Constable John Graham and Reserve Constable David Johnston

:15:53. > :15:55.were killed in June 1997. It was one of the warmest days of the year and

:15:56. > :16:05.they were patrolling in short sleeves. They were shot five times,

:16:06. > :16:11.just yards from the police station. It was a baptism of fire for a new

:16:12. > :16:21.Security Minister. I was a raw minister. I was new in the

:16:22. > :16:23.territory. We thought there was a peace process underway. The IRA

:16:24. > :16:27.authorised the killing of two police officers, shooting them in the back

:16:28. > :16:32.of the head, I remember it. And the people who did it dressed up as

:16:33. > :16:40.women. Why did they do that, to say to us that they were still there?

:16:41. > :16:44.The month after the murders, Mike Logan was back in Belfast and as he

:16:45. > :16:52.always did, met his IRA contact, Sean Murray, who was as security

:16:53. > :16:55.conscious as ever. He would write down instead of communicate

:16:56. > :17:04.verbally, to tell me which weapons had been received. He would write

:17:05. > :17:17.them down by brand and calibre and say, these were the ones that we

:17:18. > :17:19.got, is that the ones you sent? He circled a couple of them

:17:20. > :17:23.got, is that the ones you sent? He that one there had been used in an

:17:24. > :17:35.operation that had happened in Lurgan about a month previous that I

:17:36. > :17:38.was familiar with. This is the meeting where Mike Logan said he

:17:39. > :17:42.heard about two guys who were, quote, "whacked" in Lurgan. Lurgan,

:17:43. > :17:47.which is the town which I believe the officers were killed, and he

:17:48. > :17:56.pointed. Murray pointed to one of the guns that Logan had sent. It was

:17:57. > :18:00.kind of an unusual gun, it was a Colt 9mm with an internal hammer,

:18:01. > :18:15.which is kind of rare, and he circled that and he wrote next to

:18:16. > :18:20.it, "Two Lurgan RUC". And I knew exactly what that operation was and

:18:21. > :18:32.it happened about a month before. And he said, he wrote next to it,

:18:33. > :18:46.that gun did those. How do you feel about that? Not too good. I wasn't

:18:47. > :18:50.living in a fantasy land, I knew I was sending guns and I knew that

:18:51. > :18:53.people were likely to be killed with them, but to be confronted with the

:18:54. > :18:57.specific, you know, example of a couple of people that had been

:18:58. > :19:16.killed that had children and things like that.

:19:17. > :19:32.John Graham had three daughters. David Johnston had two sons. The

:19:33. > :19:41.children were all under the age of ten. The day his father was buried,

:19:42. > :19:50.seven-year-old Louie Johnston wrote this message.

:19:51. > :19:56.17 years on, he says the sentiment remains the same. He didn't

:19:57. > :20:01.17 years on, he says the sentiment appear on camera, but he told us his

:20:02. > :20:10.dad was a man of integrity who was devoted to his family. The Graham

:20:11. > :20:13.family were also too upset to speak on camera, but they agreed to share

:20:14. > :20:25.their personal pictures and memories of the two officers. They were both

:20:26. > :20:29.lovely fathers and loved their children. They did everything for

:20:30. > :20:37.their children. They weren't political in any way. They just

:20:38. > :20:40.lived for their families. After her husband was killed, Rosemary Graham

:20:41. > :20:47.was left to raise her children alone. It was very difficult. They

:20:48. > :20:51.thought they saw faces at night, alone. It was very difficult. They

:20:52. > :21:00.they thought they saw people with guns. We brought the dog in from the

:21:01. > :21:02.pen after the funeral the first day and we all slept in the one room for

:21:03. > :21:18.two years. There are people who would say, you

:21:19. > :21:27.are no better than the people who pulled the trigger, because you sent

:21:28. > :21:34.hundreds of weapons from America. I accept a huge responsibility for

:21:35. > :21:37.what I did. We haven't been able to independently verify if one of the

:21:38. > :21:41.guns which killed the two officers had been sent by Mike Logan. We've

:21:42. > :21:44.spoken to the PSNI, had been sent by Mike Logan. We've

:21:45. > :21:49.Enquiries team, the Department of Justice, the Forensic Science

:21:50. > :21:53.Service and the Coroner's Office. None of them was prepared to verify

:21:54. > :22:00.the exact gun, as the investigation is still active. We have been able

:22:01. > :22:04.to confirm one of the guns was an unusual weapon that had not been

:22:05. > :22:17.used previously and was a 9mm automatic. And that's consistent

:22:18. > :22:20.with what Mike Logan has said. The charge against the republican

:22:21. > :22:26.movement was that it was using violence to get back into talks.

:22:27. > :22:31.Sinn Fein is not involved in any dual strategy, there isn't any twin

:22:32. > :22:33.track process. Sinn Fein is a party in our own right, which is wedded

:22:34. > :22:41.The Sinn Fein leadership was very absolutely to our peace

:22:42. > :22:46.The Sinn Fein leadership was very sophisticated, very intelligent.

:22:47. > :22:50.They were working many moves ahead. They may well still want to get the

:22:51. > :22:53.same objective that we believe and the vast majority of people in

:22:54. > :22:57.Northern Ireland wanted it, and that was an end to the process, end to

:22:58. > :23:01.the violent process and into a peace process. They were not trying to

:23:02. > :23:07.stop the peace process. They were trying to exact the high price. Twin

:23:08. > :23:11.track strategy or not, within five weeks of the Lurgan killings, the

:23:12. > :23:18.IRA were back on cease-fire and Sinn Fein were back in talks. Those led

:23:19. > :23:32.to the signing of the Good Friday Agreement less than a year later.

:23:33. > :23:36.What's shocking is that throughout this whole process that the IRA

:23:37. > :24:04.continued to import guns from America. This is the agreement. Yes,

:24:05. > :24:17.71.12%. I feel the hand of history on our shoulders.

:24:18. > :24:20.Once the Good Friday Agreement was signed, it paved the way for

:24:21. > :24:25.Once the Good Friday Agreement was Fein to get into government. From

:24:26. > :24:38.now on the issue of decommissioning would dominate the news agenda.

:24:39. > :24:47.Total disarmament. Decommissioning is a military process. Resolving the

:24:48. > :24:50.Adams issue. But republicans didn't let discussions over decommissioning

:24:51. > :24:59.their old weapons get in the way of buying new ones. When I first

:25:00. > :25:03.started, I think the first cease-fire was going on. I was told

:25:04. > :25:07.to ignore whatever, any talk about that. And then the second the peace

:25:08. > :25:10.cease-fire came about, I was told to ignore that and then the

:25:11. > :25:13.decommissioning process started on and I was told to just ignore any

:25:14. > :25:22.headlines that I was reading about that and keep sending the guns.

:25:23. > :25:27.For five years it had been just Sean Murray and Mike Logan running the

:25:28. > :25:35.operation, then this man, Conor Claxton, got involved. Mike Logan

:25:36. > :25:42.had first met him in a bar in Belfast. Late in 1998 Spike told me

:25:43. > :25:50.that he wanted to increase the volume or quantity of the weapons

:25:51. > :25:54.that were coming back. And he said that the young gentleman that you

:25:55. > :25:58.met there, I would like him to come over and stay with you and for you

:25:59. > :26:04.to teach him how you are doing the operation, so we can increase the

:26:05. > :26:11.volume. I wasn't particularly thrilled with it. However, I went

:26:12. > :26:15.along with it. Logan showed Conor Claxton how to hide guns in toy

:26:16. > :26:22.trucks and advised him to post them where there was no CCTV. Claxton

:26:23. > :26:29.recruited three other people to his operation.

:26:30. > :26:36.But the Florida Four were careless in their methods. They bought guns

:26:37. > :26:43.openly and were seen posting parcels which were later intercepted. An

:26:44. > :26:48.early morning take-down in Weston, the FBI arresting two men and a

:26:49. > :26:55.woman. Within six months, Conor Claxton and his recruits were

:26:56. > :26:58.arrested. A call from Scotland Yard tipped the Feds. They X-rayed some

:26:59. > :26:59.eight packages mailed to Ireland labelled toys and computers, but all

:27:00. > :27:03.contained guns. labelled toys and computers, but all

:27:04. > :27:12.admitted to FBI agents that he was working for the IRA. "You didn't get

:27:13. > :27:17.all of us," he told them. The arrests were to spark an

:27:18. > :27:20.international outcry. The IRA were meant to be on cease-fire and the

:27:21. > :27:26.Florida operation looked like a blatant breach. The Secretary of

:27:27. > :27:34.State, Mo Mowlam, was under immense pressure to decide if the IRA were

:27:35. > :27:37.still on cease-fire. What would they need new guns for if they weren't

:27:38. > :27:42.planning a return to violence? What I have to do is make a judgement on

:27:43. > :27:46.the facts that I am given. I have looked very carefully at what I was

:27:47. > :27:50.given by the Americans and by the Irish and there is no doubt that the

:27:51. > :27:56.IRA are involved in a way that is counterproductive and unhelpful. It

:27:57. > :28:00.is quite clear that the IRA is not keeping what we would recognise as a

:28:01. > :28:03.cease-fire. And the danger here, the danger here, and I think we should

:28:04. > :28:07.spell this out, is what the Secretary of State is doing is that

:28:08. > :28:12.she appears to be accepting the IRA's definition of events. What

:28:13. > :28:15.criteria did you apply whenever yourself and Mo Mowlam were deciding

:28:16. > :28:19.is this a breach, what was the process that you went through?

:28:20. > :28:21.Everything had to go through a filter of very sophisticated

:28:22. > :28:25.reasoning. And there wasn't, there wasn't a rule book you got out that

:28:26. > :28:28.said cease-fire in breach, end of process. There was a much more

:28:29. > :28:31.subtle, much more complicated, much more difficult process than that.

:28:32. > :28:37.The American Government simply dismissed the idea of a breach, in a

:28:38. > :28:45.White House statement. There was never any proven link to the top

:28:46. > :28:47.levels of the IRA. Despite the British and American governments

:28:48. > :29:01.saying there was no breach, doubts persisted as to whether or not it

:29:02. > :29:04.was an IRA-sanctioned operation. The top lawyer who prosecuted the

:29:05. > :29:07.Florida Four case, Richard Scruggs, was adamant that based on

:29:08. > :29:09.information he'd been given, the gun running was an IRA operation

:29:10. > :29:21.sanctioned by the Army Council. Scruggs would later reveal that

:29:22. > :29:28.senior White House officials put him under extreme pressure to withdraw

:29:29. > :29:33.his remarks. Although Conor Claxton told police he was in the IRA when

:29:34. > :29:37.he was arrested, by the time he got to court, he had adopted the party

:29:38. > :29:45.line and denied that the gun running had been sanctioned. From the start,

:29:46. > :30:00.the IRA insisted the cease-fire was still intact.

:30:01. > :30:05.In August 1999 the IRA issued a statement in which they denied

:30:06. > :30:12.authorising the Florida Gun Running Operation. That is very amusing.

:30:13. > :30:18.What went through your head when you read that statement? Understandable.

:30:19. > :30:22.You know, from the very moment that they sent Conor he was told that if

:30:23. > :30:27.you get caught you have to deny it you know. And they weren't too happy

:30:28. > :30:29.when he said... One of the first things he said was, "I am an IRA

:30:30. > :30:32.volunteer." The Florida things he said was, "I am an IRA

:30:33. > :30:35.says speaking out against the IRA damaged his career in the

:30:36. > :30:49.intervening years he has refused to retract his assertions. Richard

:30:50. > :30:53.Scruggs has now gone even further. We've been to see him in Florida and

:30:54. > :30:58.have spoken to him on several occasions as part of our

:30:59. > :31:02.investigation. He told us he was flown to the UK after the Florida

:31:03. > :31:07.four arrests and was given a high level security briefing. He has

:31:08. > :31:10.revealed the name of the man he says the British and American authorities

:31:11. > :31:21.believed had ordered the Florida guns.

:31:22. > :31:27.Richard Scruggs says that from first day he was assigned to this

:31:28. > :31:32.case he was told that Sean Murray was the brains behind the IRA gun

:31:33. > :31:35.running operation. He says Murray was named in FBI interviews but when

:31:36. > :31:44.we tried to access those documents here in the courts in Florida we

:31:45. > :31:46.discovered they're in sealed files. The Florida prosecutor told

:31:47. > :31:50.Spotlight that authorities on both sides of the Atlantic moved to

:31:51. > :31:53.distance the IRA - and Sean Murray in particular - from the Florida

:31:54. > :32:05.four operation in order to preserve the peace process. If that was the

:32:06. > :32:08.policy, it seems to have been known to only a small circle in the

:32:09. > :32:09.British government, and may even have excluded the security minister

:32:10. > :32:18.at the time. The man behind have excluded the security minister

:32:19. > :32:24.operation was Sean Murray, he was ordering hundreds of guns from

:32:25. > :32:30.America. As Security Minister at that stage how could you not have

:32:31. > :32:35.known that that was happening? I am not saying I didn't know. What I am

:32:36. > :32:39.saying is I have no immediate recollection that I was aware of it.

:32:40. > :32:45.I wouldn't know if there was something I wasn't being told for

:32:46. > :32:49.obvious reasons. And it would not have fazed me if there was something

:32:50. > :32:53.of a high level of intelligence that was being kept tight within a

:32:54. > :32:57.network. I would not have felt somehow I was out of the loop

:32:58. > :33:05.because I would have understood the importance of direct reporting to a

:33:06. > :33:08.prime minister's office. While Conor Claxton tried to

:33:09. > :33:12.distance himself from the IRA, we have discovered a clear link between

:33:13. > :33:20.him and Sean Murray, his former IRA boss. We've seen documents in the

:33:21. > :33:23.land registry, showing that Murray bought a house from Claxton, in West

:33:24. > :33:41.Belfast in the months after his arrest. The Florida four made the

:33:42. > :33:44.headlines in July 1999. But Mike Logan, who had shown them how to

:33:45. > :33:53.export guns, wasn't arrested, despite being visited by the FBI who

:33:54. > :33:56.knew he was a friend of Claxtons. We had at least five different Federal

:33:57. > :33:59.Agencies - the ATF, Alcohol Tobacco and Firearms, Secret Service,

:34:00. > :34:07.Customs, FBI, and about thirty of our local police officers here, all

:34:08. > :34:11.came to my house. Luckily for Logan, the police hadn't

:34:12. > :34:20.come with a warrant to search his house. Since I was a stockbroker at

:34:21. > :34:23.that point I was in a million dollar house, they did not think that I had

:34:24. > :34:28.anything to do with the actual buying and shipping of the weapons.

:34:29. > :34:38.That I had something to do with some type of money laundering or funding

:34:39. > :34:43.of the operation. And I didn't. It was a lucky escape. He'd stopped gun

:34:44. > :34:50.running but he still had a pressing problem - 100 guns at his home. I

:34:51. > :35:01.pretty much thought I was going to jail. I had a gun safe in my garage

:35:02. > :35:04.that was full of guns. He headed to the Everglades, the

:35:05. > :35:13.swampy wastelands of Florida, to get rid of them. In the back seat it was

:35:14. > :35:17.filled to the roof, the trunk was completely filled. I covered it with

:35:18. > :35:26.blankets and I'm driving down the street with a car load of guns. I

:35:27. > :35:29.didn't know what to do with them, so I literally started just throwing

:35:30. > :35:34.them out the window as I was driving along. I was so terrified I was

:35:35. > :35:40.going to be arrested I just had to get rid of them. I did it at

:35:41. > :35:46.intervals along this whole long canal. This wasn't the only place

:35:47. > :35:52.but it was probably where the majority of the guns were dumped.

:35:53. > :35:59.This was used as a dumping ground for stolen cars, dead bodies, murder

:36:00. > :36:04.victims and things like that. It's about as rural as you can get in

:36:05. > :36:10.this area. How much money's worth went down into the canals? It's hard

:36:11. > :36:15.to put a number on it, maybe around $20,000, $25,000 or something like

:36:16. > :36:23.that. But the guns in the garage were just

:36:24. > :36:34.part of the problem. There were even more guns - another hundred - bigger

:36:35. > :36:37.and more sophisticated weapons. Too big to post to Ireland in toy

:36:38. > :36:38.trucks, Logan and Claxton had stockpiled them

:36:39. > :36:42.trucks, Logan and Claxton had unit. We had previously shipped out

:36:43. > :36:45.all of the larger weapons, assault rifles and sniper rifles that we had

:36:46. > :36:52.into a storage facility in Deerfield Beach. Mike Logan says the IRA paid

:36:53. > :37:03.the monthly storage costs on the unit for several years but then in

:37:04. > :37:07.2001 they suddenly stopped. And so one month I called up after years of

:37:08. > :37:11.the payments being made and they say it wasn't made. And I called the

:37:12. > :37:19.next month and it wasn't made. So I started freaking out. Logan was

:37:20. > :37:23.afraid it would just be a matter of time until the unit was opened up -

:37:24. > :37:30.and his fingerprints found on the secret stash of IRA weapons.

:37:31. > :37:35.Here I am, Mr successful stockbroker, living in a million

:37:36. > :37:43.dollar house and I got this albatross around my neck you know

:37:44. > :37:47.waiting to take me down. Mike Logan was worried about the FBI

:37:48. > :37:52.but it was the police in Ireland who first discovered one of his guns. It

:37:53. > :38:04.was in the hands of an IRA punishment squad arrested on their

:38:05. > :38:07.way to a shooting in Cork. These are the three automatic pistols which

:38:08. > :38:11.were seized by Gardai after they stopped a stolen car at a checkpoint

:38:12. > :38:13.at Mitchelstown in North cork last night.

:38:14. > :38:19.After another visit from the FBI, Logan took matters into his own

:38:20. > :38:27.hands. I tried to figure out how I was going to get out of the

:38:28. > :38:32.situation. And what I came up with was I called some attorneys. The

:38:33. > :38:35.attoney he called was Joe Di Genova, a prominent Washington DC lawyer

:38:36. > :38:42.with a track record at the highest levels in Government. This of course

:38:43. > :38:45.is a very dear friend of ours and a client, my friend Joe Pesci.

:38:46. > :38:51.Joe Di Genova lists famous actors among his clients, but Logan was

:38:52. > :38:54.coming to him with real life drama. Even though, the serial numbers had

:38:55. > :38:57.been removed from the guns, they were able to trace the weapon and

:38:58. > :39:01.eventually discover that mike had been the purchaser of the weapon at

:39:02. > :39:05.a gun show in Florida and the gun seller, the owner of the weapons had

:39:06. > :39:14.identified mike as the person who bought the weapon and that's when he

:39:15. > :39:16.called us. At this point the FBI only knew about one gun, they were

:39:17. > :39:24.called us. At this point the FBI about to hear about a whole lot

:39:25. > :39:27.more. Here are some of the things that were stored in that facility.

:39:28. > :39:30.Sniper rifles, 50 calibre guns, armour piercing bullets; these were

:39:31. > :39:41.not self-defence weapons, they were mortars, military weapons, just huge

:39:42. > :39:44.in number and capability. If the secret stash of guns was

:39:45. > :39:48.uncovered, Logan was facing a long stretch in prison - yet the same

:39:49. > :40:00.guns offered him a stay out of jail card, a bargaining chip with the

:40:01. > :40:07.authorities. First of all I hired attorneys in Washington DC so that I

:40:08. > :40:11.could remain anonymous. If I hired an attorney in Florida and they

:40:12. > :40:14.called up and said yeah we got a guy that knows where these weapons are

:40:15. > :40:19.they could have figured out it was me.

:40:20. > :40:24.That was the start of the process to get immunity from prosecution. To

:40:25. > :40:32.keep him anonymous, he was given the pseudonym Mr Green. I kept telling

:40:33. > :40:35.my attorneys to keep pressing home the fact that they are responsible

:40:36. > :40:45.if these weapons fall into the wrong hands, or even into the hands of the

:40:46. > :40:53.people that paid me to get them. That they would have a

:40:54. > :40:59.responsibility for that. In exchange he had to tell them

:41:00. > :41:01.everything he knew. Mike had given us a bunch of information and in

:41:02. > :41:04.order to us a bunch of information and in

:41:05. > :41:08.agreement, we had to tell them things that mike might be able to

:41:09. > :41:11.tell them and in that list of things was all these things about the

:41:12. > :41:19.dealings with the people in Northern Ireland. The trips there, the money.

:41:20. > :41:21.After three months of negotiations, the American government gave Mike

:41:22. > :41:31.Logan immunity from prosecution for the five years he'd spent sending

:41:32. > :41:36.guns to the IRA. I never ratted on anybody. I never said anything that

:41:37. > :41:42.got anybody in trouble. Nobody has ever been arrested because of me. I

:41:43. > :41:46.was just trying to get myself out of a jam and the IRA put me in that jam

:41:47. > :41:49.because they did not continue to pay for the storage facility. What was

:41:50. > :41:56.their reaction to what you told them? I think they were pretty

:41:57. > :42:00.shocked that my level of involvement that I basically was doing it for

:42:01. > :42:04.years, and that I was the primary gun runner for the period of time

:42:05. > :42:11.that I was involved in it. I would say shock was probably even an

:42:12. > :42:14.under-statement. This is the kind of stuff that the US government rarely

:42:15. > :42:17.gets and so this was a unique opportunity for them and the

:42:18. > :42:22.agreement was the only way they were going to get the information. So it

:42:23. > :42:26.was a no brainer. The government had to do this eventually, even though

:42:27. > :42:29.they may not have liked it or the US attorney in Florida might not have

:42:30. > :42:33.liked it. Coming just two years after September 11th, at a time of

:42:34. > :42:35.zero tolerance, securing such an agreement shows just how seriously

:42:36. > :42:47.the Americans took Mike Logan's testimony. In return, he agreed to

:42:48. > :42:50.be 'truthful, accurate and complete' at all times in his information or

:42:51. > :42:55.the agreement would be 'null and void'. The Justice Department said

:42:56. > :43:03.they would 'advocate he not be extradited' for his involvement with

:43:04. > :43:07.the IRA should the issue arise. I am sitting here talking to you now. I

:43:08. > :43:10.have no risk for any of the activities that I did for the IRA

:43:11. > :43:25.for sending, buying, sending any weapons. I can't be arrested. I have

:43:26. > :43:30.immunity. What is your view of that immunity agreement? Well, I mean I

:43:31. > :43:34.haven't read it in detail. I wasn't there at the time. I wouldn't

:43:35. > :43:39.necessarily have knowledge of it. Nothing in my recollection tells me

:43:40. > :43:41.I was made aware of this. And so clearly what the United States, who

:43:42. > :43:44.obviously were working with clearly what the United States, who

:43:45. > :43:47.individual getting him to divulge the information they make a

:43:48. > :43:49.judgement, well, you have given us information, you have helped

:43:50. > :43:58.immeasurably in that process and we are now giving you... To use the

:43:59. > :44:02.term immunity in that. Does that exonerate him for all the bad things

:44:03. > :44:08.he has done in the past? Probably not. Mystery remains over what

:44:09. > :44:12.happened to the information Mike Logan passed on. The American

:44:13. > :44:15.Justice department believed his story was so significant they agreed

:44:16. > :44:23.to give him immunity from prosecution. But the big question is

:44:24. > :44:28.- what happened with that information once they had it? His

:44:29. > :44:30.attorney believes it must have been passed on to senior figures on both

:44:31. > :44:37.sides of the Atlantic. This is passed on to senior figures on both

:44:38. > :44:41.powerful stuff, this gets shared and the reason it gets shared, is so

:44:42. > :44:45.people who are big shots don't get embarrassed. So there is no way this

:44:46. > :44:49.information doesn't get shared and if it doesn't people will pay a very

:44:50. > :44:52.high price if it ever comes out and something happens. To your

:44:53. > :44:58.knowledge, how many people knew about that immunity agreement? I

:44:59. > :45:03.know that the US Government knew about it at the very highest levels.

:45:04. > :45:06.And I know that the Government in the UK Government in Northern

:45:07. > :45:17.Ireland Office knew about it, everybody knew about it on both

:45:18. > :45:20.sides. What we do know is that in Dec 2002 Mike Logan's lawyers met

:45:21. > :45:22.two senior officials from the US justice department including the

:45:23. > :45:32.head of the counter terrorism section. We know the lawyers told

:45:33. > :45:35.the meeting, not just about gun running but that Sean Murray had

:45:36. > :45:43.claimed one of Logan's guns had been used to kill two police officers in

:45:44. > :45:49.Lurgan. Did you tell them about Sean Murray's involvement? Yeah, I mean,

:45:50. > :45:58.they already knew. They knew from the very beginning. You know, I

:45:59. > :46:02.didn't rat anybody up. I never mentioned any name to them that they

:46:03. > :46:07.didn't know already. I didn't talk to them till 2003. They knew in 1999

:46:08. > :46:13.that the operation was run by Sean Murray and had been sanctioned at

:46:14. > :46:18.the highest levels of the IRA. All I did was confirm it for them. Did the

:46:19. > :46:25.name Sean 'Spike' Murray ever come up? Yes, yes, it did. During all of

:46:26. > :46:28.the discussions and the proffering of the information to the United

:46:29. > :46:38.States Government, that name was given to the FBI and the Justice

:46:39. > :46:41.Department. In 2003, when his name was passed on to the American

:46:42. > :46:45.authorities in connection with Florida gun running, Sean Murray,

:46:46. > :46:51.the hardliner of the mid '90s, was well established as a community

:46:52. > :46:54.activist. He was Chairman of the Clonard Residents Association, and

:46:55. > :47:03.had established a power base in this building on the Springfield Road in

:47:04. > :47:05.West Belfast. Before Sean Murray became Chairman, the Government had

:47:06. > :47:06.invested in Clonard Residents Association ?287,000 over three

:47:07. > :47:21.years. The funding was channelled through

:47:22. > :47:24.the Belfast Regeneration Office, a body set up by the Department of

:47:25. > :47:39.Social Development to direct money into republican and loyalist areas.

:47:40. > :47:43.What happened to the Florida guns has never been fully explained. When

:47:44. > :47:50.decommissioning finally happened, the questions were still being

:47:51. > :47:56.asked. General, did you see any weaponry manufactured since '94?

:47:57. > :48:08.Erm...please. Yes, there were some very modern

:48:09. > :48:12.weapons. So, the material bought by the IRA post the '94 cease-fire? I

:48:13. > :48:15.can't say that, but, you know, they were very modern, so from the '90s.

:48:16. > :48:19.Doesn't that then mean that you didn't see weapons that were proven

:48:20. > :48:22.in court to be smuggled into Northern Ireland in 1999? That is,

:48:23. > :48:28.the weapons in Florida. I wouldn't? You can't actually say what the date

:48:29. > :48:31.of manufacture was. For example, a modern 40 calibre pistol, you can

:48:32. > :48:34.see it's mint condition, very good, perhaps never used before, but, you

:48:35. > :48:43.know, what's the date when it has arrived, you don't know.

:48:44. > :48:52.The question remains, why did Sean Murray want to keep guns coming in

:48:53. > :48:55.during the peace process? At the time, I believed, and still believe,

:48:56. > :49:01.that they had a very considerable arsenal of weapons, assault rifles,

:49:02. > :49:05.AK-47s and the like in Belfast. And unless they were planning some Tet

:49:06. > :49:12.offensive type of coup, then they really had no need of further arms.

:49:13. > :49:17.Senior security and government sources from the time have told us

:49:18. > :49:20.that they believed the IRA wanted to "police the peace process", in other

:49:21. > :49:26.words, deal with dissent in their own community. They wanted so-called

:49:27. > :49:32.'clean' guns so there would be no forensic history that could be

:49:33. > :49:34.traced back to them. This meant they could deny responsibility for

:49:35. > :49:39.murders and continue to argue that the cease-fire was intact. The NIO

:49:40. > :49:49.called this 'internal housekeeping'. We believe we've found a victim of

:49:50. > :49:53.that policy of 'internal housekeeping'. A man has

:49:54. > :49:57.that policy of 'internal dead in republican West Belfast as

:49:58. > :50:04.he was sitting in a car. Joe O'Connor, a father of three, was in

:50:05. > :50:11.the Real IRA. He was shot ten times at close range by two gunmen. The

:50:12. > :50:17.IRA denied they did it, but his family said at the time they were

:50:18. > :50:20.convinced they were responsible. There are strong indications that

:50:21. > :50:24.clean guns from America were used to kill Joe O'Connor. At his inquest, a

:50:25. > :50:33.police officer said the weapons used were a 0.38 revolver and a Glock 9mm

:50:34. > :50:37.pistol. Both were 'clean' guns. The officer said they had "no known or

:50:38. > :50:38.subsequent history of use" and said "there was a possibility" they'd

:50:39. > :50:42.come from Florida. That's backed by "there was a possibility" they'd

:50:43. > :50:47.Mike Logan. He's told "there was a possibility" they'd

:50:48. > :50:54.responsible for any Glocks sent here after the cease-fire. There were

:50:55. > :51:03.several situations that came up after 1999 where Glocks were found.

:51:04. > :51:10.One of them was the killing of Joe O'Connor. A Glock was, you know,

:51:11. > :51:16.supposed to be one of the guns that were used against him. The odds are

:51:17. > :51:23.pretty high that that weapon... One of the weapons were used to kill Joe

:51:24. > :51:26.O'Connor came from here. Joe O'Connor's family believe the police

:51:27. > :51:35.inquiry into his murder was thwarted by political considerations related

:51:36. > :51:36.to the peace process. In the past few weeks, the police ombudsman

:51:37. > :51:49.agreed to investigate their few weeks, the police ombudsman

:51:50. > :51:52.complaint. We have been told that the IRA need clean guns with no

:51:53. > :51:56.forensic history which would not be traced back to them, in order to

:51:57. > :51:59.police the peace. To deal with dissidents, drug dealers, feuds, did

:52:00. > :52:02.that ever come up in any of your discussions? Look, we were aware

:52:03. > :52:06.there was self-regulation going on within the IRA. And people were

:52:07. > :52:12.being given punishment beatings and sometimes killed. That was not being

:52:13. > :52:16.tolerated by us. We weren't saying, away you go, use that clean gun so

:52:17. > :52:23.there is no forensics. That isn't just. There is no... I don't know

:52:24. > :52:27.who would have made that judgement. Some people would say that at that

:52:28. > :52:30.stage, the Government was determined to keep the peace process on the

:52:31. > :52:33.road, and if that meant that there was collateral damage, people got

:52:34. > :52:39.injured, people got killed, that was a price worth paying. I think in

:52:40. > :52:45.retrospect, that point of view is probably correct. There was an

:52:46. > :52:54.absolute determination to keep the peace process alive. It was in the

:52:55. > :53:03.intensive care unit, cardiac massage was being effectively applied to it.

:53:04. > :53:10.It was as if it was essential not to allow the whole 1998 agreement to

:53:11. > :53:13.disintegrate and to blow up. Can you understand why people would say,

:53:14. > :53:16.well, clean guns, they were very convenient because they couldn't be

:53:17. > :53:21.traced back to the IRA and therefore there was never any chance of the

:53:22. > :53:26.cease-fire being breached? Can I say, this was not a normal society.

:53:27. > :53:31.This was a society where people were prepared to do terrible things in

:53:32. > :53:36.the so-called just cause. And our role was to try and stop that

:53:37. > :53:39.happening. And there was two strands in that. One was a justice process,

:53:40. > :53:42.bringing the perpetrator of wrongdoing to justice, and the other

:53:43. > :53:48.was to get the peace process underway, sufficient that you put an

:53:49. > :53:51.end to all of that. And I will tell you, there was many victims'

:53:52. > :53:54.families who voted for the Good Friday Agreement. They took the pain

:53:55. > :54:10.for the greater good. Life has changed dramatically for

:54:11. > :54:17.Mike Logan in the 15 years since he stopped posting guns to the IRA. His

:54:18. > :54:23.secret life as a gun runner has taken its toll. He's had problems

:54:24. > :54:31.with alcohol and drugs. He's no longer working and has lost his

:54:32. > :54:33.house. Last year he spent three months in prison, he's still on

:54:34. > :54:43.probation. You have remained silent for 15

:54:44. > :54:51.years, why are you speaking out now? I think it is time for the story to

:54:52. > :54:55.come out. I couldn't talk about it when I was a stockbroker because I

:54:56. > :54:57.had everything in the world to lose, right now I don't have anything to

:54:58. > :55:08.lose. There are people who will dismiss

:55:09. > :55:15.Mike Logan as an addict, a fantasist, a man who has

:55:16. > :55:17.exaggerated, do you believe him? Absolutely, absolutely, everything

:55:18. > :55:21.that he said has been confirmed by written records, by bank records, by

:55:22. > :55:23.other witnesses, by the seizure of objects and materials and by the

:55:24. > :55:32.United States Government itself, which intercepted stuff and knew

:55:33. > :55:35.what was going on. So I don't think there is any doubt that Mike is

:55:36. > :55:37.telling the truth. Since he had an immunity agreement, he could speak

:55:38. > :55:44.truthfully and freely and candidly. In the intervening years, Sean

:55:45. > :55:50.Murray has become increasingly immersed in the peace process. He

:55:51. > :55:55.declined to be interviewed by Spotlight but said our accusations

:55:56. > :55:58.were "without foundation". He went on to say he had never been

:55:59. > :56:04."arrested, detained or interviewed" about any of the allegations. He

:56:05. > :56:08.said similar claims had been made over a decade ago and if there had

:56:09. > :56:13.been any evidence, "the PSNI would have acted". He told us his focus

:56:14. > :56:15.was and remains on helping, in whatever way possible, to

:56:16. > :56:24.consolidate the peace and political processes. But for those outside

:56:25. > :56:31.political circles, a high personal cost is still being paid.

:56:32. > :56:42.Personally, it is very important for me that people are held accountable

:56:43. > :56:46.for their actions. The morally pure position might have ended us, with

:56:47. > :56:57.the IRA campaign just going on and on for the last ten or 15 years. The

:56:58. > :57:01.families of some of those killed at that time would say they have paid a

:57:02. > :57:05.very, very high price for peace. Every victim did. Every victim did.

:57:06. > :57:14.It was very difficult to deal with all of that. So everyone who lost

:57:15. > :57:18.someone paid that price. And that is what we tried to stop. And by and

:57:19. > :57:30.large, that is what we hopefully succeeded in doing. I would say the

:57:31. > :57:33.price is too high for us. If terrorists could achieve peace on

:57:34. > :57:37.down the line and sit around a table, why could they not have done

:57:38. > :57:41.that earlier, and why did all these people have to die?