0:00:03 > 0:00:06Meteor Electrical had 200 people working.
0:00:08 > 0:00:11We had 45 lorries on the road.
0:00:11 > 0:00:15Can you remember the day you decided to throw the towel in?
0:00:15 > 0:00:17I try very hard not to remember it.
0:00:17 > 0:00:19See them last few months, you know,
0:00:19 > 0:00:21when the house goes back on the line,
0:00:21 > 0:00:23everything goes back on the line,
0:00:23 > 0:00:24you're using your credit cards
0:00:24 > 0:00:26to try to get money for wages.
0:00:26 > 0:00:29So far, so familiar.
0:00:29 > 0:00:32A once-thriving business going under in the recession.
0:00:33 > 0:00:36But this is a story with a difference.
0:00:36 > 0:00:40Because what happened next between this man and his bank
0:00:40 > 0:00:43has been captured on secret video recordings.
0:00:43 > 0:00:46I am sure they have hundreds and hundreds of customers
0:00:46 > 0:00:48making allegations. But I am not making allegations,
0:00:48 > 0:00:51there is video evidence of their people
0:00:51 > 0:00:53doing what they employed them to do.
0:01:03 > 0:01:06We've looked at hours of footage, which we're broadcasting tonight
0:01:06 > 0:01:07for the very first time.
0:01:09 > 0:01:11Really quite extraordinary, wasn't it?
0:01:11 > 0:01:14It's bank officials recorded on tape doing something that clearly
0:01:14 > 0:01:15they shouldn't have been doing.
0:01:15 > 0:01:17It's lethal. It's dynamite.
0:01:17 > 0:01:19We haven't seen anything like it before.
0:01:19 > 0:01:22That bit of video footage is the only thing that separates me
0:01:22 > 0:01:26from hundreds of others, because, like, nobody would believe
0:01:26 > 0:01:28if I was trying to tell that story.
0:01:31 > 0:01:38This programme contains strong language.
0:01:43 > 0:01:45MAN LAUGHS
0:01:45 > 0:01:47- How are you?- How are things? - Not so bad.
0:01:47 > 0:01:48You're taking my hand, eh?
0:01:48 > 0:01:51John Conway's electrical supplies company used to sponsor
0:01:51 > 0:01:53the Derry City football team.
0:01:53 > 0:01:55Where's my onions? No onions?
0:01:55 > 0:01:57How are you? Healthy eating(!)
0:01:57 > 0:02:00These days, he and his sons attend matches
0:02:00 > 0:02:03through the turnstiles, like everyone else.
0:02:03 > 0:02:05There are no Meteor signs still round here.
0:02:05 > 0:02:08At its height, John Conway's company, Meteor Controls,
0:02:08 > 0:02:12had an annual turnover of £24 million.
0:02:12 > 0:02:16He admits his company's financial difficulties began when
0:02:16 > 0:02:18sterling collapsed seven years ago,
0:02:18 > 0:02:21and that, coupled with a major recession
0:02:21 > 0:02:25in the construction industry, threw his business into crisis.
0:02:25 > 0:02:28Most of our purchases were in US dollar,
0:02:28 > 0:02:29but most of our sales were in euro.
0:02:29 > 0:02:31Sterling was in a nosedive and that
0:02:31 > 0:02:34cost us an awful lot of money.
0:02:34 > 0:02:37The odds were against him.
0:02:37 > 0:02:39But Conway thinks his business might have survived
0:02:39 > 0:02:42these catastrophic events if it hadn't been
0:02:42 > 0:02:44for the added pressure from one bank
0:02:44 > 0:02:47he did business with, the Bank of Ireland.
0:02:47 > 0:02:49This wasn't the responsibility of the bank.
0:02:49 > 0:02:51You know, the industry was tightening,
0:02:51 > 0:02:54we had to keep cutting back so we remained profitable,
0:02:54 > 0:02:56but it was this other stuff that was going on in the background,
0:02:56 > 0:03:01the bank stuff, which was the stuff that, really, we couldn't manage.
0:03:01 > 0:03:04Over 200 years ago, Bank of Ireland was founded
0:03:04 > 0:03:07on the principle of supporting and guiding our customers.
0:03:10 > 0:03:13We recognise that for the last few years, however,
0:03:13 > 0:03:15the waters have been particularly stormy.
0:03:15 > 0:03:18The bank may advertise their supporting role,
0:03:18 > 0:03:21but John Conway says this wasn't his experience
0:03:21 > 0:03:23when things got rough at Meteor.
0:03:23 > 0:03:25You could never get money released.
0:03:25 > 0:03:28Money would be sitting in the account, there was
0:03:28 > 0:03:33a continuous thing of saying, "Yes, we will transfer 50,000 tomorrow."
0:03:33 > 0:03:35The money wouldn't be transferred.
0:03:35 > 0:03:37You couldn't get anybody on the phone,
0:03:37 > 0:03:38they wouldn't answer the phone,
0:03:38 > 0:03:41and then you'd get an apology the next day.
0:03:41 > 0:03:45John Conway has shown us some of the e-mails exchanged between Meteor
0:03:45 > 0:03:50and Bank of Ireland during the period before the company went to the wall.
0:03:50 > 0:03:55They give a flavour of his frustration at cash-flow problems
0:03:55 > 0:03:57caused by the bank,
0:03:57 > 0:03:59a claim Bank of Ireland rejects.
0:03:59 > 0:04:02Four payment requests last week not actioned.
0:04:02 > 0:04:05I have been let down yet again by a transfer not going...
0:04:15 > 0:04:18So here we have a bank - broke itself at this stage -
0:04:18 > 0:04:21that, for whatever reason, was frequently missing deadlines
0:04:21 > 0:04:25and holding on to what, to Meteor, were large amounts of cash,
0:04:25 > 0:04:28making it even more difficult for a company
0:04:28 > 0:04:30that was struggling to survive.
0:04:33 > 0:04:36Tonight on Spotlight, we bring you the secret recordings
0:04:36 > 0:04:40we had to fight in court to broadcast.
0:04:40 > 0:04:42And we reveal an extraordinary battle
0:04:42 > 0:04:46between businessman John Conway and his former bankers.
0:04:46 > 0:04:50He secretly recorded tapes that he says expose how elements
0:04:50 > 0:04:53within the Commercial Finance Department of Bank of Ireland
0:04:53 > 0:04:56were willing to go to any lengths to claw back money for the bank,
0:04:56 > 0:05:00including one employee attempting fraud.
0:05:00 > 0:05:04The bank, in turn, accuse John Conway's firm of fraud.
0:05:04 > 0:05:08So what do the tapes really reveal, and what do they show us about
0:05:08 > 0:05:12how some Bank of Ireland officials operated behind closed doors?
0:05:12 > 0:05:14MUFFLED VOICES IN FOOTAGE
0:05:16 > 0:05:19John Conway believes that if he hadn't secretly recorded
0:05:19 > 0:05:23Bank of Ireland employees after Meteor's collapse,
0:05:23 > 0:05:24the subsequent criminal behaviour
0:05:24 > 0:05:28he says he uncovered would never have come to light.
0:05:32 > 0:05:35The Cookstown firm Meteor Electrical has ceased trading
0:05:35 > 0:05:37with the loss of 70 jobs.
0:05:37 > 0:05:39The company has gone into administration.
0:05:39 > 0:05:42Meteor is Ireland's largest independent electrical wholesaler.
0:05:42 > 0:05:44The downturn in the construction industry
0:05:44 > 0:05:47and currency exchange rate problems have been blamed.
0:05:47 > 0:05:49Managing director John Conway says he's been working to try
0:05:49 > 0:05:52and find a way of overcoming the company's financial difficulties,
0:05:52 > 0:05:54but he said a viable alternative...
0:05:54 > 0:05:57So what impact will these job losses have on the town? The DUP...
0:06:00 > 0:06:02When it closed in June 2009,
0:06:02 > 0:06:06Meteor was owed nearly £3 million from customers.
0:06:07 > 0:06:11Once the liquidator was in place, the Bank of Ireland,
0:06:11 > 0:06:13with whom Meteor did most of its cash business,
0:06:13 > 0:06:15sent in their own staff to try
0:06:15 > 0:06:18and recoup the millions of pounds owed to Meteor,
0:06:18 > 0:06:19and in turn to the bank.
0:06:28 > 0:06:30This is Tony McCrory,
0:06:30 > 0:06:33an ex-sales manager at Meteor who knew the books inside out.
0:06:35 > 0:06:38He was brought back in to help the two women from the bank
0:06:38 > 0:06:41navigate their way around the accounts.
0:06:41 > 0:06:43From early on, he had misgivings.
0:06:43 > 0:06:45When did you start to think,
0:06:45 > 0:06:48"Hold on a minute, there's something not quite right"?
0:06:48 > 0:06:52Erm... Well, pretty much straightaway, I mean,
0:06:52 > 0:06:55after the first couple of days, there would be a few...
0:06:55 > 0:06:57a few flippant remarks here and there,
0:06:57 > 0:06:59a few things that you would think, "Mm, strange."
0:06:59 > 0:07:03Further down the line, when it started to get probably dangerous,
0:07:03 > 0:07:04I thought to myself,
0:07:04 > 0:07:06"Gosh, what have I got myself involved with here?"
0:07:09 > 0:07:12Given his experience of the bank, John Conway says
0:07:12 > 0:07:17he was already suspicious about what the bank's employees would do.
0:07:17 > 0:07:21He says Tony McCrory then came to him and appeared to confirm his fears.
0:07:23 > 0:07:26At this point, John Conway decided to
0:07:26 > 0:07:30record the Bank of Ireland staff as they worked on his premises.
0:07:38 > 0:07:40I never recorded anybody in my life!
0:07:40 > 0:07:43But I says, "I need to know what's going on here."
0:07:43 > 0:07:48Spotlight has examined many hours of footage recorded by John Conway,
0:07:48 > 0:07:51which give a fascinating insight into the practices
0:07:51 > 0:07:53of the two employees from
0:07:53 > 0:07:56the Commercial Finance Department of Bank of Ireland.
0:07:57 > 0:08:01Tony, this is the actual footage of the conversations
0:08:01 > 0:08:05in this very office between you and the two women involved.
0:08:05 > 0:08:08Obviously, there's no-one here now, but it was here that it took place.
0:08:08 > 0:08:12Here, in footage broadcast for the first time,
0:08:12 > 0:08:16bank official Sarah Breen boasts to her colleague Kelley Toner
0:08:16 > 0:08:19and to Tony McCrory about just how ruthless
0:08:19 > 0:08:22they were prepared to be in collecting money.
0:08:35 > 0:08:37KELLEY LAUGHS
0:08:52 > 0:08:54SARAH AND KELLEY LAUGH
0:09:06 > 0:09:09They claim they will stop at nothing
0:09:09 > 0:09:11to recover money for the bank.
0:09:11 > 0:09:15And they're clearly proud of how they are seen as an unstoppable duo
0:09:15 > 0:09:17by others in their department.
0:09:31 > 0:09:35Yet at times, they appear to have the leeway to help certain creditors.
0:09:50 > 0:09:53But it's clear from the footage that there are certain debts
0:09:53 > 0:09:57they won't let go of, particularly when they're dealing with
0:09:57 > 0:10:00creditors they perceive to be disrespectful to them.
0:10:20 > 0:10:22SHE LAUGHS
0:10:25 > 0:10:28Clearly, it was in everyone's interest, including Meteor's,
0:10:28 > 0:10:32for the bank to collect as much money as possible in this situation,
0:10:32 > 0:10:35but what is surprising are the tactics the women appear to be
0:10:35 > 0:10:38willing to use in order to do so.
0:10:38 > 0:10:41John Conway says Kelley Toner's role quickly went
0:10:41 > 0:10:44from debt collection to attempted fraud.
0:10:44 > 0:10:47When she couldn't get the money from customers who owed it,
0:10:47 > 0:10:51she tried to collect it from Meteor's bad debt insurance.
0:10:55 > 0:10:57A lot of companies have a form of insurance called
0:10:57 > 0:11:02"bad debt insurance", whereby if one of their customers can't pay,
0:11:02 > 0:11:05they can claim the money from an insurance policy.
0:11:06 > 0:11:10On tape, Kelley Toner divulges how she regularly made up
0:11:10 > 0:11:13false information on insurance claims.
0:11:13 > 0:11:18She admits to withholding information from insurers, and to telling lies.
0:11:36 > 0:11:39One of the things Kelley Toner claims to have duped
0:11:39 > 0:11:43the insurers about is that there had been court judgments
0:11:43 > 0:11:46against customers in relation to money owed.
0:11:46 > 0:11:48If there were such judgments in place,
0:11:48 > 0:11:51the insurer would pay out much more readily.
0:12:21 > 0:12:24Kelley Toner goes on to boast of misleading insurers
0:12:24 > 0:12:30about important documents known as "proof of delivery" or PODs.
0:12:30 > 0:12:33When insurers raised the fact that there were no PODs,
0:12:33 > 0:12:36she assured them she had seen them, when she hadn't.
0:13:11 > 0:13:14These tapes are clearly of serious concern.
0:13:14 > 0:13:17Kelley Toner, who has since left Bank of Ireland,
0:13:17 > 0:13:22took a legal injunction against both Spotlight and John Conway
0:13:22 > 0:13:25to try to prevent the broadcast of the material.
0:13:25 > 0:13:29But what is most concerning is another incident from the footage,
0:13:29 > 0:13:32because it appears to show insurance fraud
0:13:32 > 0:13:35being carried out by a bank employee.
0:13:35 > 0:13:39We see Kelley Toner actually asking for Meteor's records to be
0:13:39 > 0:13:41tampered with, in order to make a company
0:13:41 > 0:13:44that didn't owe money look like it did.
0:13:57 > 0:14:00Kelley Toner wants to put through an insurance claim
0:14:00 > 0:14:03for over 12,000 euro for a customer
0:14:03 > 0:14:06called Independent Electrical Wholesalers
0:14:06 > 0:14:10based in Dublin, who she says owe this amount to Meteor.
0:14:10 > 0:14:14The two companies had what's known as a "contra deal" in place,
0:14:14 > 0:14:17which means they exchanged goods and services
0:14:17 > 0:14:19without cash ever changing hands.
0:14:19 > 0:14:23However, as her colleague Sarah Breen had pointed out to her
0:14:23 > 0:14:26moments earlier, while Independent Electrical
0:14:26 > 0:14:31had owed Meteor 12,964 euro in the past,
0:14:31 > 0:14:33the Dublin company is in turn
0:14:33 > 0:14:36owed 18,000 euro by Meteor,
0:14:36 > 0:14:38and is therefore approximately
0:14:38 > 0:14:396,000 euro in credit.
0:14:50 > 0:14:54Independent Electricals had provided 18,000 euro worth
0:14:54 > 0:14:56of services to Meteor, which,
0:14:56 > 0:15:00as Sarah Breen makes absolutely clear to Kelley Toner,
0:15:00 > 0:15:02wiped out their 12,000 euro debt
0:15:02 > 0:15:07and brought Independent Electrical 6,000 euro into credit.
0:15:07 > 0:15:12Undeterred by Sarah Breen's warning, Kelley Toner then proceeds to ask
0:15:12 > 0:15:16for part of Meteor's payment transaction history to be deleted
0:15:16 > 0:15:20in order to try and claim the cash from an insurance company.
0:15:32 > 0:15:35Kelley Toner is willing to tamper with the accounts
0:15:35 > 0:15:38to fraudulently claim money for the bank.
0:15:38 > 0:15:42She goes on to ask Tony McCrory to remove recent transactions
0:15:42 > 0:15:46from the account history between Meteor and Independent Electrical.
0:15:59 > 0:16:00SHE LAUGHS
0:16:23 > 0:16:27Can you understand why some people might say,
0:16:27 > 0:16:30"Well, this man Tony McCrory is captured on camera
0:16:30 > 0:16:35"helping Kelley Toner to edit Meteor's credit history,
0:16:35 > 0:16:40"is he not equally guilty of conspiring to mislead an insurer?
0:16:40 > 0:16:42What was I getting out of it?
0:16:42 > 0:16:43I wasn't getting anything out of it.
0:16:43 > 0:16:45I was getting paid for a day's work,
0:16:45 > 0:16:47to do there at the time.
0:16:47 > 0:16:49I knew it was on the camera. I done nothing.
0:16:49 > 0:16:51Look, I'll leave it up to the judgment of people at home.
0:16:51 > 0:16:53I don't think anybody is going
0:16:53 > 0:16:55to look at this and think I done something wrong.
0:16:55 > 0:16:57I was made redundant at the time, in no small way
0:16:57 > 0:16:58a contributing factor to the bank,
0:16:58 > 0:17:02so I have absolutely no sympathy for them and my conscience is clear.
0:17:06 > 0:17:10We showed the clip of Kelley Toner and Tony McCrory to Julian Radcliffe,
0:17:10 > 0:17:13a specialist in fraud against insurance companies
0:17:13 > 0:17:17who has acted as an expert witness in several international fraud cases.
0:17:19 > 0:17:23This case was a classic where there was money owed both ways.
0:17:23 > 0:17:25And what these people appear to be doing was trying to
0:17:25 > 0:17:29cut off the record at a certain point, when there was money
0:17:29 > 0:17:33which didn't suit them being owed in a direction
0:17:33 > 0:17:34that didn't suit them.
0:17:34 > 0:17:37It is very serious, because in an insolvency situation,
0:17:37 > 0:17:40it's very important that the integrity of the accounting records
0:17:40 > 0:17:42should be maintained.
0:17:42 > 0:17:45Do you think it's attempted fraud?
0:17:45 > 0:17:48In the insurance world, it would be considered fraudulent,
0:17:48 > 0:17:51on the evidence that I've seen.
0:17:56 > 0:17:59Then we showed the footage to Neil Swift,
0:17:59 > 0:18:02a criminal lawyer who specialises in white-collar crime.
0:18:02 > 0:18:05We asked him if he felt he would be able to
0:18:05 > 0:18:09prosecute on the basis of the evidence we showed him.
0:18:09 > 0:18:13- Yes, I certainly would.- And on what grounds would you take the case?
0:18:14 > 0:18:18There's definitely evidence that an offence of fraud has been committed.
0:18:18 > 0:18:23There's evidence of dishonesty from the mouths of the people concerned,
0:18:23 > 0:18:26there's direct evidence of doctoring a document,
0:18:26 > 0:18:28and there's direct evidence of knowledge
0:18:28 > 0:18:30of what the true situation is,
0:18:30 > 0:18:35so...there appear to be sufficient evidence there to prosecute a fraud.
0:18:39 > 0:18:44We asked Kelley Toner and the bank to give us their response to the tapes.
0:18:44 > 0:18:47We asked them if they thought this kind of behaviour was acceptable
0:18:47 > 0:18:50and whether it reflected the ethos of the bank.
0:18:50 > 0:18:54We asked them if any investigations or disciplinary procedures had
0:18:54 > 0:18:58been carried out within the bank on foot of their having seen the video.
0:19:00 > 0:19:03In response, Bank of Ireland questioned the veracity,
0:19:03 > 0:19:06reliability and truthfulness of the footage,
0:19:06 > 0:19:08and said, in any case, it would not be appropriate
0:19:08 > 0:19:13to comment on it, as it is currently the subject of legal proceedings
0:19:13 > 0:19:15between Bank of Ireland and John Conway.
0:19:17 > 0:19:21Kelley Toner tried to injunct this programme and failed.
0:19:21 > 0:19:24Her lawyer subsequently told Spotlight that she...
0:19:32 > 0:19:35She accepted that she made comments that were...
0:19:38 > 0:19:43..but says she was goaded into making them by Tony McCrory.
0:19:43 > 0:19:44She...
0:19:49 > 0:19:51We also wrote to Sarah Breen, who did not reply.
0:20:00 > 0:20:03John Conway says he asked a business associate to make senior figures
0:20:03 > 0:20:07in the bank aware of the tapes soon after they were recorded.
0:20:07 > 0:20:11The bank says John Conway has sought to make use of the tapes.
0:20:11 > 0:20:14The existence of an outstanding personal guarantee owed to the bank
0:20:14 > 0:20:18by John Conway is a source of a bitter dispute between them.
0:20:18 > 0:20:20Viewed in this light,
0:20:20 > 0:20:24the tapes could appear to offer a potential form of blackmail.
0:20:27 > 0:20:31Listen, that's a nonsense. Blackmailing the bank(!)
0:20:31 > 0:20:34When I first recorded the bank, we contacted the board
0:20:34 > 0:20:39of Bank of Ireland and told them that we had caught them fiddling.
0:20:39 > 0:20:42Why didn't you go to the police at the outset?
0:20:42 > 0:20:44Very simple, and I have been asked this 50 times,
0:20:44 > 0:20:46"Why not go to the police?"
0:20:46 > 0:20:49Look, Kelley and Sarah were two people who...
0:20:51 > 0:20:53..were doing a job that they were employed to do.
0:20:54 > 0:20:57And the most that was going to happen is that
0:20:57 > 0:20:58something was going to happen to those two.
0:20:58 > 0:21:00But going to the police on these two?
0:21:00 > 0:21:03The people above them... This goes...
0:21:03 > 0:21:04The fish rots from the head.
0:21:07 > 0:21:09But what did the bank do
0:21:09 > 0:21:11when they became aware of the existence of the tapes?
0:21:11 > 0:21:13According to Kelley Toner,
0:21:13 > 0:21:17managers brought her in and told her she was being filmed.
0:21:17 > 0:21:20She says she was then instructed to return to the Meteor job.
0:21:23 > 0:21:25We don't know much more about how the bank
0:21:25 > 0:21:27reacted internally to the footage.
0:21:27 > 0:21:31We do know that they pursued a fraud investigation,
0:21:31 > 0:21:36not against Kelley Toner, but against John Conway's firm, Meteor.
0:21:36 > 0:21:40The bank wouldn't tell us the detail of their allegations
0:21:40 > 0:21:43against John Conway's company, but they claim that
0:21:43 > 0:21:47in Meteor's last days, the company engaged in what's known as
0:21:47 > 0:21:49"invoice discounting fraud" -
0:21:49 > 0:21:52issuing thousands of pounds in false invoices,
0:21:52 > 0:21:57knowing the bank would cover them by paying money into Meteor's account.
0:21:57 > 0:22:01Bank of Ireland told us they successfully claimed fraud insurance
0:22:01 > 0:22:04in the aftermath of Meteor's collapse,
0:22:04 > 0:22:07and they said that means insurers were satisfied
0:22:07 > 0:22:09that fraud had taken place.
0:22:11 > 0:22:15Less than 24 hours ago, Spotlight was leaked a draft
0:22:15 > 0:22:19of an internal Bank of Ireland report on the fraud allegations.
0:22:19 > 0:22:24It confirms the bank claimed 900,000 euros from their insurers.
0:22:24 > 0:22:26But even after that payment,
0:22:26 > 0:22:29the bank says it still suffered a loss of almost £500,000.
0:22:34 > 0:22:37The Bank of Ireland had refused to give us access
0:22:37 > 0:22:40to the evidence on which they base their allegations.
0:22:40 > 0:22:44But the fraud report says the bank found more than 100 instances
0:22:44 > 0:22:48where there were issues with missing purchase orders, credit notes,
0:22:48 > 0:22:51goods returned and goods not received.
0:22:51 > 0:22:55Spotlight had already investigated some of the claims.
0:22:55 > 0:22:57In a number of cases we found what
0:22:57 > 0:23:00appeared to be reasonable explanations.
0:23:00 > 0:23:04In other cases, we've not been able to fully investigate
0:23:04 > 0:23:07information that would appear to support the bank, partly because
0:23:07 > 0:23:10the bank and some other key participants
0:23:10 > 0:23:12have not cooperated with us.
0:23:13 > 0:23:17But the fraud report also contains the conclusions
0:23:17 > 0:23:20of Meteor's liquidator, Cavanagh Kelly,
0:23:20 > 0:23:24who investigated the allegation for the bank.
0:23:24 > 0:23:25It said...
0:23:31 > 0:23:32But if there was no fraud,
0:23:32 > 0:23:38how can it be that the bank claimed 900,000 euro in fraud insurance?
0:23:38 > 0:23:42Whether or not that was before or after Meteor's liquidator
0:23:42 > 0:23:46had said they could not conclude there was any fraudulent activity,
0:23:46 > 0:23:50we don't know, and the bank won't tell us.
0:23:50 > 0:23:53In fact, we can reveal the bank did not even tell
0:23:53 > 0:23:55Meteor's liquidator about the insurance claim.
0:24:00 > 0:24:02Have you ever committed fraud?
0:24:04 > 0:24:07Let's be serious about this here.
0:24:07 > 0:24:12There was never a fraud. This was well covered, well documented.
0:24:12 > 0:24:15The liquidator covered it, said there was nothing. Right?
0:24:15 > 0:24:18The directors disqualification people gave me
0:24:18 > 0:24:22a clean bill of health. There never was an issue.
0:24:22 > 0:24:27In June 2014, more than four years after they say they discovered
0:24:27 > 0:24:29the alleged Meteor fraud,
0:24:29 > 0:24:32Bank of Ireland reported John Conway to the PSNI.
0:24:33 > 0:24:37He and his lawyers have questioned the timing of the complaint,
0:24:37 > 0:24:39which they say came a few weeks after John Conway
0:24:39 > 0:24:43indicated he was attempting to take the bank to court.
0:24:44 > 0:24:48Bank of Ireland told us they couldn't answer any questions
0:24:48 > 0:24:51about their allegations against John Conway because
0:24:51 > 0:24:55they did not want to compromise the PSNI investigation in any way.
0:24:57 > 0:25:00They produced this report to the PSNI
0:25:00 > 0:25:03and I have never heard tell of it. And that's 18 months ago.
0:25:03 > 0:25:08So you are saying that the bank made a complaint to the PSNI in 2014?
0:25:08 > 0:25:10You are saying that in the 18 months since then,
0:25:10 > 0:25:14you have never been approached by the PSNI?
0:25:14 > 0:25:16I actually know very little about it.
0:25:16 > 0:25:20But you know what, if there was something wrong, why would the bank
0:25:20 > 0:25:22sit on this for four-and-a-half years
0:25:22 > 0:25:24before they would go to the PSNI?
0:25:24 > 0:25:26This is quite obvious, there was nothing wrong.
0:25:26 > 0:25:30This is a nonsense, and it's the bank throwing whatever dirt they can
0:25:30 > 0:25:32to try to get the attention away from themselves.
0:25:34 > 0:25:37So what DID Bank of Ireland do in response
0:25:37 > 0:25:39to the secretly recorded footage?
0:25:41 > 0:25:44Bank of Ireland's current code of conduct says there's
0:25:44 > 0:25:47an onus on employees to report even a suspicion of something wrong.
0:25:49 > 0:25:53We don't know if that was in place when the tapes were made,
0:25:53 > 0:25:56but we do know the bank said back then that they applied
0:25:56 > 0:26:00the highest standards of integrity to all their dealings.
0:26:02 > 0:26:04Hardly the case when Kelley Toner appeared to be
0:26:04 > 0:26:07deliberately falsifying records to push through
0:26:07 > 0:26:10a fraudulent claim for bad debt.
0:26:22 > 0:26:24SHE LAUGHS
0:26:31 > 0:26:35That particular claim was rejected when the full records emerged,
0:26:35 > 0:26:38including the parts Kelley Toner ordered cut off.
0:26:41 > 0:26:44But the company insuring Meteor's debts, Euler Hermes,
0:26:44 > 0:26:50with headquarters in London, paid out up to £100,000 in claims to the bank.
0:26:53 > 0:26:57We've been told that one false claim could jeopardise the entire payment.
0:27:01 > 0:27:02That is serious,
0:27:02 > 0:27:08and not only could that invalidate that part of the claim,
0:27:08 > 0:27:11but it might invalidate the whole policy.
0:27:13 > 0:27:15For all the other claims.
0:27:16 > 0:27:21So by lying on one claim she may have invalidated £100,000 worth of claims?
0:27:21 > 0:27:24She might have done. I'm not saying she would have done,
0:27:24 > 0:27:27it depends partly on the attitude that the insurance company takes,
0:27:27 > 0:27:30and what a court - if it ever ended up in court -
0:27:30 > 0:27:35might determine in relation to the materiality of that action.
0:27:36 > 0:27:40- But it's that serious?- Yes.
0:27:40 > 0:27:43Bank of Ireland never told Euler Hermes about the attempt
0:27:43 > 0:27:46to put through a false claim, nor showed them the tapes.
0:27:48 > 0:27:51However, Bank of Ireland said they did show the tapes to
0:27:51 > 0:27:54their own fraud insurers, the ones who we now know
0:27:54 > 0:27:56paid out 900,000 euro.
0:27:58 > 0:28:01But the bank would not tell us who those insurers were.
0:28:04 > 0:28:07Back in 2009, Kelley Toner was nervous about
0:28:07 > 0:28:10how the bank would react to her activities.
0:28:17 > 0:28:19But she needn't have worried.
0:28:20 > 0:28:23When they were first alerted to the existence of the footage,
0:28:23 > 0:28:26bank managers called Kelley Toner in.
0:28:26 > 0:28:29We can now reveal that, according to Kelley Toner,
0:28:29 > 0:28:31a senior bank official told her
0:28:31 > 0:28:35"not to worry", and that the bank would look after her.
0:28:35 > 0:28:40Kelley Toner continued to work for the bank for another two years.
0:28:40 > 0:28:43She is now operations director for a finance company.
0:28:45 > 0:28:48Despite her efforts to stop this programme, she told Spotlight
0:28:48 > 0:28:53that if John Conway had not made his secret recordings, she would have
0:28:53 > 0:28:58been congratulated by the bank, as she had been many times in the past.
0:28:59 > 0:29:03Sarah Breen, who was aware of Toner's actions but seemingly
0:29:03 > 0:29:07didn't report them, is still employed by the Bank of Ireland.
0:29:12 > 0:29:16Former journalist TD Shane Ross has been critical of
0:29:16 > 0:29:20the banking culture, and in particular of the Bank of Ireland.
0:29:20 > 0:29:22He sits on the Public Accounts Committee in Dublin,
0:29:22 > 0:29:28where a major public inquiry into practices in Irish banks is underway.
0:29:28 > 0:29:30He says the broadcast of the tapes will undoubtedly
0:29:30 > 0:29:33raise questions in the Dail.
0:29:33 > 0:29:36I think there'll be demands for...action.
0:29:36 > 0:29:38And particularly from the government,
0:29:38 > 0:29:42because the government is a 14% shareholder in Bank of Ireland.
0:29:42 > 0:29:44And I don't see how they can tolerate this.
0:29:44 > 0:29:48These are two people who are acting on behalf of the Bank of Ireland
0:29:48 > 0:29:52and behaving in a way which is kind of the Wild West of banking,
0:29:52 > 0:29:56it's just quite uncontrollable and utterly unacceptable.
0:29:56 > 0:29:58And it's quite obviously something
0:29:58 > 0:30:01which they never expect to be accountable for.
0:30:01 > 0:30:05Our legal expert questions the apparent lack of action by the bank
0:30:05 > 0:30:08and says the minute they became aware of the tapes,
0:30:08 > 0:30:10they should have acted.
0:30:10 > 0:30:14Being informed that this sort of thing was going on,
0:30:14 > 0:30:17I would certainly expect the bank to conduct an internal investigation
0:30:17 > 0:30:18to find out exactly what had happened
0:30:18 > 0:30:22and whether there was an innocent explanation for it.
0:30:22 > 0:30:26We wrote to the bank repeatedly, looking for just such an explanation.
0:30:26 > 0:30:29They said they could not discuss whether there was any
0:30:29 > 0:30:31internal disciplinary investigation
0:30:31 > 0:30:34because it would breach their duty of care and confidence
0:30:34 > 0:30:37to current and former employees.
0:30:37 > 0:30:41But Kelley Toner told us there was no disciplinary investigation
0:30:41 > 0:30:45or any follow-up inquiry from the bank's audit and compliance people.
0:30:52 > 0:30:55John Conway has spent many years in litigation
0:30:55 > 0:30:58with the Bank of Ireland and is still fighting the bank's attempts
0:30:58 > 0:31:03to enforce his personal guarantee, on the basis that the debt collection
0:31:03 > 0:31:06was conducted fraudulently and recklessly.
0:31:06 > 0:31:09And 18 months after the bank alerted the police
0:31:09 > 0:31:12to allegations of discounting fraud at his company,
0:31:12 > 0:31:17John Conway says the PSNI still haven't contacted him.
0:31:17 > 0:31:20Why are you doing this now? What is the principle?
0:31:20 > 0:31:23Is this about winning a case, is it about money,
0:31:23 > 0:31:25is it about recouping your debt?
0:31:27 > 0:31:30What is your motivation? Why are you talking to us today?
0:31:32 > 0:31:33Uh...
0:31:35 > 0:31:40It's probably to get closure. Just get, you know what I mean,
0:31:40 > 0:31:41I have, erm...
0:31:41 > 0:31:44I have tried for a number of years to get somebody in the bank
0:31:44 > 0:31:47to sit down and say, "What we done here is wrong.
0:31:47 > 0:31:49"We are sorry, we are not going to do it again.
0:31:49 > 0:31:52"This is not what we do."
0:31:52 > 0:31:55And instead, they have basically just ignored me.
0:31:55 > 0:31:56And, erm...
0:31:58 > 0:31:59You know, fuck them.
0:32:01 > 0:32:02Shouldn't have said that.
0:32:02 > 0:32:05You know, it just comes a stage where you just say,
0:32:05 > 0:32:06"Look, enough is enough."
0:32:09 > 0:32:13John Conway's sons have started a new electrical supply business,
0:32:13 > 0:32:16trading under the old name of Meteor.
0:32:16 > 0:32:19In the fraud report, the bank say they see this new business
0:32:19 > 0:32:23as a way of continuing the old firm free from debt.
0:32:23 > 0:32:27Again, the bank are suggesting fraud, but as we know,
0:32:27 > 0:32:29the liquidator was unable to conclude
0:32:29 > 0:32:32that there had been fraudulent activity.
0:32:33 > 0:32:37And that may be the most significant puzzle of this whole story.
0:32:37 > 0:32:42How did the Bank of Ireland claim 900,000 euro in fraud insurance
0:32:42 > 0:32:46when John Conway has still not been visited by the police?
0:32:47 > 0:32:51John Conway's war with the Bank of Ireland continues.
0:32:51 > 0:32:55He fully expects they will bankrupt him in the near future.