:00:48. > :01:01.14. Schoolgirl. That day, she came home in a box. Why? We want to get
:01:02. > :01:07.the answers that we are looking for. And those console, in Northern
:01:08. > :01:29.Ireland. Some people have waited more than 40 years. -- answers come
:01:30. > :01:35.slowly. The wait for answers was supposed to end with the agreement
:01:36. > :01:45.at Stormont. But they got hobnob on the past. The major roadblock, the
:01:46. > :01:53.access to official information. Files like these. Information is the
:01:54. > :01:57.battlefield. The government has said, we need to have special
:01:58. > :02:06.restrictions, secrecy on the grounds of national security. But families
:02:07. > :02:16.of people shot by the Army, want to know why answers are still out of
:02:17. > :02:21.reach. I cried. Tonight, the war for information. The government wants to
:02:22. > :02:28.stop secrets being taken into the open, can we trust the reasons, or
:02:29. > :02:33.is national security being used to hide documents, that would reveal
:02:34. > :02:51.killings by members of the state. I would never forgive them.
:02:52. > :02:58.Old soldiers on the march, last month. These former servicemen,
:02:59. > :03:08.protest thing about investigations into a lot. -- tellings. What we are
:03:09. > :03:18.there for, we want to level the playing field, ensure that veterans
:03:19. > :03:22.are not prosecuted for doing duty. Families of those killed at the
:03:23. > :03:32.Troubles are pushing for more investigations, but for these men,
:03:33. > :03:40.turning back the clock to pursue them is unjust. I do not see why we
:03:41. > :03:48.are being investigated. F terrorists are pardoned... Yet we are serving
:03:49. > :03:54.soldiers, and can be arrested 40 years later, it is not correct. Do
:03:55. > :04:02.you sympathise with families who have lost loved ones? Absolutely.
:04:03. > :04:13.100%. But you cannot have one rule for one... What if a soldier
:04:14. > :04:22.murdered an innocent person? It never happened. No such thing. We're
:04:23. > :04:40.not hiding. They knew the potential for danger. Why be there? The place
:04:41. > :04:49.where Richie McKinney died was behind the wheel of his car. He was
:04:50. > :05:04.picking up his wife from war. A Protestant, -- work. He was killed
:05:05. > :05:10.in 1972. It was the bloodiest year of the the Troubles. In Belfast,
:05:11. > :05:17.tensions have been building between soldiers and Protestants, angry that
:05:18. > :05:25.they seemed unable to stop IRA. What is going to happen, if the Army has
:05:26. > :05:33.not brought peace? The Protestants will take this into their own hands.
:05:34. > :05:40.Do you think this could get rough? Just now, they think we're their
:05:41. > :05:48.soldiers. But they do not seem to realise, we are just as liable to
:05:49. > :05:59.shoot him, as anybody else. The tensions exploded. This was eight
:06:00. > :06:06.months after bloody Sunday. And the same battalion of the Parachute
:06:07. > :06:13.Regiment had killed civilians at Derry, now taking part in gun
:06:14. > :06:17.battles at Belfast. Afterwards, the commander gave his account of what
:06:18. > :06:33.happened in disturbances. We were ambushed. We resisted the onslaught.
:06:34. > :06:39.To Protestant men killed. -- two. Local people, accusing paratroopers
:06:40. > :06:47.of indiscriminate shooting. Nothing indiscriminate about it. 25 rounds
:06:48. > :06:54.fired. We had a wounded man, dead man. Positively tested with
:06:55. > :07:08.paraffin. They had been handling firearms. In fact, neither of the
:07:09. > :07:15.men was a loyalist gunman. The circumstances of Richie McKinney's
:07:16. > :07:22.death, still haunt his daughter. It came on the news, that the army had
:07:23. > :07:30.shot two people, the family were devastated. Paratroopers said he had
:07:31. > :07:37.seen shots fired from the direction of Richie McKinney's vehicle. They
:07:38. > :07:42.said the gunman got out, ran off. The soldier who shot Richie McKinney
:07:43. > :07:50.was also deployed at bloody Sunday. He had not actually opened fire in
:07:51. > :07:55.that incident. This time, he did. Years later, the bloody Sunday and
:07:56. > :08:01.quietly would hear he had said shooting Richie McKinney was an
:08:02. > :08:13.enjoyable experience, enhancing my standing in the battalion. Carol
:08:14. > :08:16.says she lived with the blackening of her father as a gunman for 40
:08:17. > :08:29.years. I should not have to justify my father. Was he a policeman? No.
:08:30. > :08:38.Who shot him? The army. I would tell them he was innocent, you could see
:08:39. > :08:40.them go, oh really, doubt it. The Ministry of Defence later paid
:08:41. > :08:46.compensation to the family for the death. But that army never publicly
:08:47. > :08:52.retracted its version of events. After the killing, Carol wrote to
:08:53. > :09:08.the government. But nothing happened. Then, a startling
:09:09. > :09:14.discovery. Visa just stumbled upon the Ministry of Defence document, in
:09:15. > :09:28.the National Archives. This private memo revealed... I cried when I read
:09:29. > :09:36.that. Says it all. That was what truly happened. Innocent man. They
:09:37. > :09:54.admitted that. But it was kick secret. 40 years. That was the last
:09:55. > :10:06.weekend of his life. I am fighting for his memory. I am fighting
:10:07. > :10:10.because I have got grandchildren. If they seek out family history... Read
:10:11. > :10:18.things... What are they going to think? I want an apology. The
:10:19. > :10:20.Ministry of Defence told us it would be happy to look into the Richie
:10:21. > :10:33.McKinney case, if contacted by the family. In 2005, the historical
:10:34. > :10:43.enquiry team was set up, to bring closure to families like this. But
:10:44. > :10:46.two years ago, it was scrapped. That was mainly because of shortcomings
:10:47. > :10:54.into its investigations are both militarily killings. Last year, a
:10:55. > :11:00.proposal to replace that with the historical investigations unit.
:11:01. > :11:04.Crucially, the government agreed it could see all the relevant
:11:05. > :11:12.militantly documents. In other words, investigators would say
:11:13. > :11:17.fables that the HET didn't. It was a proposal for a independent police
:11:18. > :11:24.unit, with full access to all documentation available. Any death.
:11:25. > :11:29.No matter who was responsible. Excellent proposal. But the family
:11:30. > :11:34.is hoping for new information faced an obstacle. Political leaders
:11:35. > :11:40.reaching an agreement after two months. But no deal on the past. The
:11:41. > :11:46.government introduced what is known as the national security clause.
:11:47. > :11:50.That means the Secretary of State could prevent families knowing what
:11:51. > :11:57.happened. As she believed making some information public could risk
:11:58. > :12:01.UK security. We want families to have as much information as
:12:02. > :12:04.possible, but a certain amount of sensitive information that if it was
:12:05. > :12:17.publicly known, with potentially give assistance. The UK Government
:12:18. > :12:23.has essentially marks families up the hill, push them off. This man
:12:24. > :12:27.was a Northern Ireland security minister. He said the Ministry of
:12:28. > :12:30.Defence needs to be more open with information, but also have to be
:12:31. > :12:36.careful about revealing methods of gathering intelligence.
:12:37. > :12:42.Transparency is very important, but it is difficult when you have
:12:43. > :12:50.agents, as we did, infiltrated into the IRA and they are doing a very
:12:51. > :12:54.important job. Obviously, any release of any document which could
:12:55. > :13:02.even start to point out who that was would mean their life would be in
:13:03. > :13:06.severe danger. But families and campaigners fear
:13:07. > :13:08.that the state will use national security as an excuse to cover up
:13:09. > :13:44.wrongful killings. This is the spot where she was shot,
:13:45. > :13:52.she fell, the crowd gathered around. She fell on her face just over
:13:53. > :14:05.there. There was all blood, she lost that much blood.
:14:06. > :14:22.September 1971. 14-year-old Annette had just finished school for the
:14:23. > :14:26.day. There was rioting in the area, she went to have a look. A bomb
:14:27. > :14:35.exploded nearby and soldiers opened fire. These are her plimsolls that
:14:36. > :14:47.she wore the day she was murdered. And to this day, you can still see
:14:48. > :14:51.spots of blood on the plimsolls. The soldiers said they were being
:14:52. > :14:59.shot at and claimed her death was an accident. But there was little or no
:15:00. > :15:02.interest in into her killing because, in the early 1970s, the
:15:03. > :15:08.police were not allowed to interview soldiers. Now the family once the
:15:09. > :15:14.army to open its files on the killing, but the Ministry of Defence
:15:15. > :15:17.is refusing to release them. The MOD would not even confirm which
:15:18. > :15:21.regiment of the British Army was responsible, it's just beggars
:15:22. > :15:27.belief. It has been an incredibly uphill struggle to get any
:15:28. > :15:32.information. The family didn't give up, but it has been like crowing
:15:33. > :15:36.hen's teeth, it really has been extraordinary. -- drawing. It is
:15:37. > :15:41.frustrating, very frustrating, you feel as if you are banging your head
:15:42. > :15:44.on a wall at times. As a family, we want to know why, we want somebody
:15:45. > :15:56.to be held responsible. Last year, the family took legal
:15:57. > :16:03.action to try to force the Il Divo released commence relating to this
:16:04. > :16:07.case. -- to force the MOD. Their lawyers discover that all the secret
:16:08. > :16:09.military files relating to the entire Troubles were open to
:16:10. > :16:17.destruction because there was no official protection. Only in 2014
:16:18. > :16:21.did the Government finally put what is known as a preservation order on
:16:22. > :16:32.the documents to keep them safe, and this is it. Some worry it came too
:16:33. > :16:35.late. That order should have been issued many years beforehand, and we
:16:36. > :16:43.don't know what was destroyed in the meantime. The Ministry of Defence
:16:44. > :16:47.told us that some nonessential Troubles documents have been
:16:48. > :16:53.destroyed, but others are already publicly accessible. They said
:16:54. > :16:53.closed files are retained because of personal or operational
:16:54. > :17:07.sensitivities. Last week, the McGavigan family
:17:08. > :17:12.received a draft copy of the Historical Enquiries Team report
:17:13. > :17:15.into Annette's death. In it, the HET detectives said they ask the MOD to
:17:16. > :17:21.identify the soldiers firing the shots that they so they could talk
:17:22. > :17:29.to them. But the detectives couldn't get the names. The Ministry of
:17:30. > :17:34.Defence even today claimed they never read tame the name of soldiers
:17:35. > :17:38.who were involved in lethal force incidents here, soldiers who killed
:17:39. > :17:41.people. I don't believe the Ministry of Defence has not retained the
:17:42. > :17:50.names of soldiers. I believe for them not to do so would be illegal.
:17:51. > :17:55.The state's determination not to give up its archives has been tested
:17:56. > :17:58.in court in recent years - when it refused to hand over files relating
:17:59. > :18:04.to army activities in Kenya in the 1950s. The Government later had to
:18:05. > :18:10.pay compensation for torture committed by soldiers. This
:18:11. > :18:23.journalist has ridden extensively bout what he calls the state's
:18:24. > :18:29.culture of concealment. -- written. We know the British Government tends
:18:30. > :18:32.to conceal that which might embarrass the Government or the
:18:33. > :18:38.armed forces. It is an attempt to sculpt the past. Ian questions the
:18:39. > :18:45.Government's commitment to opening its secret archives to examine the
:18:46. > :18:55.army's roll here. Two years ago, he reported the army had moved
:18:56. > :18:57.thousands of files out of Northern Ireland into secret warehouses in
:18:58. > :18:59.England, and he says those hidden archives were not even disclosed to
:19:00. > :19:03.HET detectives who were investigating military killings. I
:19:04. > :19:06.know they didn't know about those files, senior figures were clear
:19:07. > :19:13.that they had not been told, they didn't know they existed. An HET
:19:14. > :19:19.source told us the same thing, but the Ministry of Defence says the HET
:19:20. > :19:22.had full access to files. What seems clear is that when army files are
:19:23. > :19:30.opened, they often hold a significant information.
:19:31. > :19:37.Gene didn't wear a uniform, she didn't carry a gun, she was an
:19:38. > :19:44.innocent taken off the earth. -- Jean. For 40 years, Jean Smith's
:19:45. > :19:50.sisters believed she had been shot by the IRA. But the chance discovery
:19:51. > :19:55.of long hidden army documents turned that believe completely upside down.
:19:56. > :20:05.They now believe she was killed by soldiers. Jean Smith was 24 and from
:20:06. > :20:13.West Belfast. A working mum trying to build a life for herself and her
:20:14. > :20:17.daughter. It was June 1972. Her boyfriend talked her into going out
:20:18. > :20:27.for a quick drink. She never came home. On their way back to Jean's
:20:28. > :20:34.house, gunfire hit the car. Jean was shot in the head. A passing taxi
:20:35. > :20:43.picked her up to take her to hospital, but she died. Jean left
:20:44. > :20:52.behind a 6 -year-old daughter. The family never recovered. She was 24
:20:53. > :20:57.years of age and had her whole life in front of her, a lovely, beautiful
:20:58. > :21:04.daughter who she loved and adored, and that was all taken from her. In
:21:05. > :21:10.2012, her death was re-examined by the HET. They concluded what had
:21:11. > :21:21.always been assumed - that it was the IRA who most likely killed Jean.
:21:22. > :21:27.What do you do? I mean, IRA? Who do you turn to? Who can you say, you
:21:28. > :21:32.are in fear, what about the rest of our family, my brothers, our
:21:33. > :21:38.husbands, you know? Absolute terror, like. Back then, there was
:21:39. > :21:42.no council, nobody to go to, no investigations, there was nothing.
:21:43. > :21:43.That was until the discovery which changed their whole view of what
:21:44. > :21:59.happens to their sister. This is Ciaran. He began visiting
:22:00. > :22:05.the National Archives a decade ago to research the loyalist murder of
:22:06. > :22:11.his grandmother. My grandmother was murdered. What drives me is the same
:22:12. > :22:19.thing that drives all of our families, and that is the driver for
:22:20. > :22:22.truth. He now regularly comes here to research government documents
:22:23. > :22:30.about the troubles for other families. Last year, he found
:22:31. > :22:35.crucial evidence from 1972. It was all the incidents reported from
:22:36. > :22:39.right across the North, reported upwards to headquarters, so they
:22:40. > :22:44.offer little snapshots of what was actually happening back then. These
:22:45. > :22:50.records show uniformed and undercover soldiers opening fire in
:22:51. > :22:56.the area where Jean was hit. And the soldiers claimed to have shot
:22:57. > :23:01.someone. It has been reported from the Brigade Major, EBM, that police
:23:02. > :23:05.are dealing with the dead girl found in the taxi. In the same log, it is
:23:06. > :23:10.known that the security forces claimed ahead. The security forces
:23:11. > :23:16.claimed ahead, the army saying they shot somebody. In your view, that
:23:17. > :23:22.ties Jean's killing to a military hit? It is not my view, it is the
:23:23. > :23:28.Brigade Major's view, written down very plainly for us to see. This is
:23:29. > :23:34.the HET were poured into Jean Smith's murder, which was completed
:23:35. > :23:37.three years ago. -- HET report. Nowhere does it mention the military
:23:38. > :23:40.logs which suggest the military might have been involved in a
:23:41. > :23:49.shooting. They appear to have been missed. Ciaran took copies of the
:23:50. > :23:52.files to Jean's family. They were astounded, and they now believe the
:23:53. > :23:58.army covered up the full facts of what happened to their sister. God
:23:59. > :24:05.forgive them, because I can tell you, our family will never forgive
:24:06. > :24:13.them, never, they never knew the truth.
:24:14. > :24:18.Is evidence does not conclusively prove that soldiers shot Jean, but
:24:19. > :24:23.for the first time it raises that possibility. The Ministry of Defence
:24:24. > :24:29.told us that the fact these files were publicly accessible tends to
:24:30. > :24:34.disprove the suggestion that it has suppressed material concerning
:24:35. > :24:43.civilian deaths. The files have now been removed from public access. The
:24:44. > :24:48.National Archives told us this was to review data protection. Kew's
:24:49. > :24:52.family have gone to court to ask for an independent investigation into a
:24:53. > :25:03.killing. The MOD said it would co-operate with any authorised
:25:04. > :25:06.inquiry. But when people like Jean's sisters push for new
:25:07. > :25:11.investigations, these former soldiers feel like they are back in
:25:12. > :25:22.the firing line. All of us signed a cheque to our country to the value
:25:23. > :25:29.of our lives. We are not terrorists. We are not criminals. Can you put
:25:30. > :25:35.yourself into the shoes of somebody who says that there loved one... I
:25:36. > :25:39.am in those shoes, they shot my family, so I am in those shoes,
:25:40. > :25:48.those men were my brothers. So I have to get over it. I am afraid you
:25:49. > :25:52.have to do the same. As part of their demonstration, they brought a
:25:53. > :25:55.petition to Downing Street protesting at the recent arrest of
:25:56. > :26:00.one of their comrades over the Bloody Sunday killings. And their
:26:01. > :26:07.arguments have been heard in the House of Commons, taken up by the
:26:08. > :26:11.Government's own backbench MPs. I submit that it is immoral for the
:26:12. > :26:19.stage to seek to put these men on trial. So how much of the political
:26:20. > :26:24.pressure bed into Theresa May let's thinking when she said there must be
:26:25. > :26:29.a national security clause to limit historic investigations in Northern
:26:30. > :26:33.Ireland? I wanted to ask the Secretary of State, but she declined
:26:34. > :26:41.to speak to us. The Government's critics believe the national
:26:42. > :26:44.security clause is to open to abuse. The UK Government has taken a
:26:45. > :26:49.position that national security means what ever they want it to mean
:26:50. > :26:56.at any particular time. There is no official definition in legislation,
:26:57. > :27:01.or anywhere else. National security is quite a broad concept, isn't it,
:27:02. > :27:05.it arguably embraces national embarrassment. If people have died
:27:06. > :27:09.in questionable circumstances 45 years ago, plenty of people in the
:27:10. > :27:14.MOD would regard the evidence of that as something that should be
:27:15. > :27:17.retained from the public, from historians and lawyers on national
:27:18. > :27:21.security grounds. All of which raises the question - will the
:27:22. > :27:25.Government or the army ever really give up their Northern Ireland
:27:26. > :27:29.secrets? Eventually, it is going to have to be accepted that there are
:27:30. > :27:35.some security issues which will never be revealed, or will not be
:27:36. > :27:42.revealed in your or my lifetimes. That is not only to protect perhaps
:27:43. > :27:48.agents, but also it would reveal methods we had of gaining
:27:49. > :27:56.intelligence which still classified and still secret, and we still use.
:27:57. > :28:00.Do people, then, have to, in your view, come to an acceptance that
:28:01. > :28:04.there will be secrets the stage will never give up? Yes.
:28:05. > :28:09.The families of those killed by the army not prepared to accept state
:28:10. > :28:17.secrets can get in the way of truth and justice. We need to know the
:28:18. > :28:23.truth, no matter how long it takes. And we will not rest until we get
:28:24. > :28:28.the truth. She was one of ours, we are not going to let, you know, the
:28:29. > :28:33.British kind of just push aside. So we will fight to the end. All of
:28:34. > :28:40.these families also believe the state is playing a waiting game -
:28:41. > :28:45.waiting for them to age and die, and full their fight for the facts to
:28:46. > :28:47.die with them. What they have you got in the British Government to
:28:48. > :28:52.tell the truth about stories like yours? To be perfectly honest, with
:28:53. > :28:56.everything that has happened in my past, I honestly do not think that
:28:57. > :29:00.we will get what we want, that I would get what I want from the
:29:01. > :29:05.British Government, unless they have a change of heart, which they should
:29:06. > :29:11.have. Defence ministers declined to speak to us, but in a statement the
:29:12. > :29:15.MOD did make one admission - that investigations into army killings in
:29:16. > :29:21.the early years of the Troubles were not up to modern processes and
:29:22. > :29:23.procedures. For former soldiers, that may be an unsettling
:29:24. > :29:28.acknowledgement that there are questions to answer. But for the
:29:29. > :29:34.families, it could be a signal that it is too late to find the truth -
:29:35. > :29:51.and some secrets will stay stuck in the past.
:29:52. > :30:01.Do you have views on BBC Radio Ulster,
:30:02. > :30:05.If so, the BBC Trust would like to hear from you.