2:00:00 > 2:00:00SPOTLIGHT NIC B799A/01 BRD000000
5:04:53 > 5:04:57Arlene Foster has risen to the top of politics in Northern Ireland,
5:04:57 > 5:05:01to a job she never expected to have.
5:05:01 > 5:05:04As a young girl growing up in rural Fermanagh,
5:05:04 > 5:05:08the most westerly constituency in the whole of the United Kingdom,
5:05:08 > 5:05:11in the days when we were plagued by terrorism,
5:05:11 > 5:05:15I could not have dreamt that I would be in this position today.
5:05:15 > 5:05:20Is it any wonder that, in politics, I believe nothing is impossible?
5:05:20 > 5:05:23And if politics really is the art of the possible,
5:05:23 > 5:05:26the speech from Martin McGuinness
5:05:26 > 5:05:28shows just how much has changed here.
5:05:28 > 5:05:31I am very conscious that Arlene's mother
5:05:31 > 5:05:35and her husband and children are here today,
5:05:35 > 5:05:40and I also acknowledge the hurt that their family endured
5:05:40 > 5:05:42as a result of the conflict.
5:05:42 > 5:05:47But only a few people know that for the First and Deputy First Ministers, it's personal.
5:05:48 > 5:05:51That's because of a painful connection between them
5:05:51 > 5:05:53stretching back over 30 years.
5:05:53 > 5:05:55Do you think you know the identity
5:05:55 > 5:05:59- of the person who tried to kill your father?- Yes, I do. Yeah.
5:05:59 > 5:06:00And he is no longer about.
5:06:00 > 5:06:03And Martin McGuinness spoke at his funeral?
5:06:03 > 5:06:05Yeah.
5:06:05 > 5:06:07Tonight on Spotlight, we're with the First Minister
5:06:07 > 5:06:09during her first month in office,
5:06:09 > 5:06:12looking at the experiences that formed her.
5:06:12 > 5:06:17I closed my eyes, I just didn't know what was going on.
5:06:17 > 5:06:20Then there was about two or three seconds silence,
5:06:20 > 5:06:22and then everybody started to scream.
5:06:22 > 5:06:26Were you traumatised by that bomb attack?
5:06:26 > 5:06:27I was, yes.
5:06:27 > 5:06:30And getting to the heart of who she really is.
5:06:30 > 5:06:35When you think about bullying me, think again.
5:06:35 > 5:06:37I think we need to send clear messages out
5:06:37 > 5:06:39that paramilitarism, wherever it comes from
5:06:39 > 5:06:41there's no place for it here in Northern Ireland.
5:06:41 > 5:06:45Sinn Fein have been shown to be economically illiterate, yet again, yet again.
5:06:45 > 5:06:48And I think the BBC need to answer why they feel the need to continue
5:06:48 > 5:06:51with their negativity and their parasitical nature,
5:06:51 > 5:06:53and I think it is very disappointing.
5:06:53 > 5:06:54Do you have a temper?
5:07:22 > 5:07:24- RADIO:- Right now, the time is half past eight.
5:07:24 > 5:07:26Let's get a summary of the news from Anne-Marie.
5:07:26 > 5:07:28As we've been hearing, David Bowie has died.
5:07:28 > 5:07:31In Toomebridge, one lane of the A6 Hillhead Road
5:07:31 > 5:07:33remains closed towards Castledawson...
5:07:33 > 5:07:37The DUP leader, Arlene Foster, will formally take over as First Minister
5:07:37 > 5:07:38at Stormont later today.
5:07:44 > 5:07:49January 11th. It's Arlene Foster's first day as First Minister.
5:07:50 > 5:07:54For the next few weeks, she is allowing us behind the scenes
5:07:54 > 5:07:57and she's agreed to take part in a number of interviews.
5:07:57 > 5:08:00- First Minister, congratulations. - Thank you, thank you.
5:08:00 > 5:08:04- Well done. How has it been today? - Well, it's all been...
5:08:04 > 5:08:06- Is it a bit surreal?- It is a bit surreal, I have to say.- It must be.
5:08:06 > 5:08:09It's been lovely. I've just had lunch with my mum and the family.
5:08:09 > 5:08:13- She must be very proud.- Yes, she is. It's lovely to have her here,
5:08:13 > 5:08:17she's in her 80s now, so it's great that she could come up.
5:08:17 > 5:08:20Fantastic. So this is it, this is the office.
5:08:20 > 5:08:21No, well, this is Finance actually.
5:08:21 > 5:08:24- Right, OK, so you haven't moved yet? - Haven't moved yet.
5:08:24 > 5:08:27So that all has to be... that all has to be done now.
5:08:27 > 5:08:31Before she even gets comfortable at the First Minister's desk,
5:08:31 > 5:08:34Arlene Foster has to meet the media.
5:08:39 > 5:08:41When the elections do come, what's your ambition for
5:08:41 > 5:08:44the Ulster Unionist Party? Is it about their destruction?
5:08:44 > 5:08:46Effectively, you've made up your minds
5:08:46 > 5:08:48that EU membership is not good for Northern Ireland.
5:08:48 > 5:08:51Your relationship with Martin McGuinness
5:08:51 > 5:08:54is going to be of critical importance in future.
5:08:54 > 5:08:56Just one final question - favourite Bowie track?
5:08:56 > 5:08:58Oh, it has to be Let's Dance.
5:09:05 > 5:09:09It's 9am the next morning, and Arlene Foster is in Lisburn
5:09:09 > 5:09:12on her first official engagement as First Minister.
5:09:12 > 5:09:15I brought the weather with me, unfortunately.
5:09:17 > 5:09:20And one of the things she is going to have to get used to
5:09:20 > 5:09:25is the escalated level of media scrutiny and media interest.
5:09:25 > 5:09:28It's a different level to when she was a Minister.
5:09:29 > 5:09:34And already she has to handle her first minor controversy.
5:09:34 > 5:09:37In the Assembly, the day before, her party colleague, Edwin Poots,
5:09:37 > 5:09:41made a statement that some consider to be sexist.
5:09:41 > 5:09:44But in congratulating Arlene on her elevation to First Minister,
5:09:44 > 5:09:47I would say that is the second most important job
5:09:47 > 5:09:48that she will ever take on.
5:09:48 > 5:09:52Her most important job has been and will remain
5:09:52 > 5:09:54that of a wife, a mother, a daughter.
5:09:54 > 5:09:56Do you feel that there is a kind of
5:09:56 > 5:09:58double expectation on you in this position?
5:09:58 > 5:10:01Well, you know, I think if you look at some of the media questions
5:10:01 > 5:10:03yesterday, you could say the same of those as well.
5:10:03 > 5:10:06They wouldn't be asked of a man either, but you know,
5:10:06 > 5:10:09I'm not really focusing on that. I'm focusing on the job ahead.
5:10:09 > 5:10:11Is it a sexist thing to ask?
5:10:11 > 5:10:13Look, I understand that people are interested in that aspect,
5:10:13 > 5:10:16because I am the first female First Minister.
5:10:16 > 5:10:17How do you balance that?
5:10:17 > 5:10:20The reality is, of course, that I have been a busy solicitor
5:10:20 > 5:10:23before I became a politician, so I have always been working,
5:10:23 > 5:10:28so there's always been a need to balance a work with family.
5:10:28 > 5:10:32Arlene Foster has only been in power for 24 hours.
5:10:32 > 5:10:35But, already, she is learning that as First Minister,
5:10:35 > 5:10:38she'll be expected to have an answer for everything.
5:10:43 > 5:10:47Sam McBride is the political correspondent of the Newsletter.
5:10:47 > 5:10:50On her first day in office, he interviewed her.
5:10:50 > 5:10:52That's a departure in itself.
5:10:52 > 5:10:56Peter Robinson had refused to speak to the Newsletter
5:10:56 > 5:10:58for several months.
5:10:58 > 5:11:01Arlene Foster, certainly in this phase of her leadership,
5:11:01 > 5:11:03has shown herself, I think, very deliberately
5:11:03 > 5:11:06to be much more approachable, much more relaxed,
5:11:06 > 5:11:08much more affable and engaging.
5:11:08 > 5:11:10It will be interesting to see
5:11:10 > 5:11:12whether that is something she can manage to hold on to
5:11:12 > 5:11:15as the pressure begins to come on during an election campaign.
5:11:15 > 5:11:18Do you ever get the sense that she is an unlikely DUP leader?
5:11:18 > 5:11:21I mean, she's from a Church of Ireland background,
5:11:21 > 5:11:23she's from the west of the province, she's a woman.
5:11:23 > 5:11:26It seems that, in all of these ways, she is very different
5:11:26 > 5:11:29to what has gone before. How did she get there, do you think?
5:11:29 > 5:11:31She got there because the DUP changed.
5:11:31 > 5:11:33If she had been in the DUP 20 years ago,
5:11:33 > 5:11:36she obviously would not have had a hope of becoming leader, I think,
5:11:36 > 5:11:38because it was very much more aligned
5:11:38 > 5:11:40to the Free Presbyterian Church.
5:11:43 > 5:11:46One of Arlene Foster's challenges in her new job
5:11:46 > 5:11:49is to make the DUP appeal to a broad range of voters,
5:11:49 > 5:11:53whilst reassuring its evangelical, conservative, religious wing.
5:11:53 > 5:11:58One organisation which espouses that mind-set is the Caleb Foundation,
5:11:58 > 5:12:00an evangelical lobby group.
5:12:01 > 5:12:05Gregory Campbell and Nelson McCausland have expressed sympathy
5:12:05 > 5:12:07with the views of the Caleb Foundation.
5:12:08 > 5:12:12And Mervyn Storey is a member of its council.
5:12:13 > 5:12:15It's committed to promoting the literal truth of the Bible,
5:12:15 > 5:12:18including creationism, which teaches
5:12:18 > 5:12:22that the world was created by God 6,000 years ago, in six days.
5:12:24 > 5:12:28The Foundation successfully lobbied to have that view included
5:12:28 > 5:12:30in the exhibition at the Giant's Causeway.
5:12:30 > 5:12:33Arlene Foster is not a member.
5:12:34 > 5:12:36Are you a creationist?
5:12:36 > 5:12:39You know, I have been asked this question many times and, actually,
5:12:39 > 5:12:41when I joined the party, some people asked me
5:12:41 > 5:12:43was I also joining the church?
5:12:43 > 5:12:45And that was a fundamental misunderstanding.
5:12:45 > 5:12:47We have to see the Bible in the context
5:12:47 > 5:12:49of the scientific developments.
5:12:49 > 5:12:53I take as my leader, the way in which Her Majesty the Queen
5:12:53 > 5:12:56is a Low Anglican is something that is very akin
5:12:56 > 5:12:58to the way in which I worship as well.
5:12:58 > 5:13:03Can you see why some people might become concerned
5:13:03 > 5:13:05when there is an organisation that seeks to promote
5:13:05 > 5:13:08the literal truth of the Bible in legislation?
5:13:08 > 5:13:10I mean, there is just no separation there.
5:13:10 > 5:13:11Well, they are not...
5:13:11 > 5:13:13That is not the DUP, the Caleb Organisation
5:13:13 > 5:13:17um, is an organisation that exists
5:13:17 > 5:13:20to lobby and to promote their beliefs.
5:13:20 > 5:13:22And they are perfectly entitled to do that.
5:13:27 > 5:13:32Her balancing act can be seen on day two with her Cabinet reshuffle.
5:13:32 > 5:13:36The party officers and myself have come to the decision to appoint
5:13:36 > 5:13:39Mervyn Storey as Finance Minister.
5:13:39 > 5:13:41Putting Mervyn Storey into Finance,
5:13:41 > 5:13:44a very important member of the Caleb Foundation,
5:13:44 > 5:13:46but a party loyalist,
5:13:46 > 5:13:49was an ingenious piece of management.
5:13:49 > 5:13:52And the signal that she was sending to her party there was,
5:13:52 > 5:13:56"Don't worry about your new female, Church of Ireland, ex-UUP leader,
5:13:56 > 5:13:58"I'm going to respect this party's traditions."
5:14:01 > 5:14:04In public, she appears to be a deft political operator.
5:14:04 > 5:14:06But I'd heard that, behind the scenes,
5:14:06 > 5:14:10the real Arlene Foster has a short fuse.
5:14:10 > 5:14:13It's said by people who have spent an awful lot more time
5:14:13 > 5:14:16with her than I have that she has a fearsome temper.
5:14:16 > 5:14:19I know that Arlene Foster has a bit of a temper.
5:14:19 > 5:14:23I have received some letters in responses to columns from her,
5:14:23 > 5:14:26but I have read them thinking, you know,
5:14:26 > 5:14:29maybe you should have calmed down before you wrote this.
5:14:29 > 5:14:31- That she was being too sensitive, basically?- Yes.
5:14:31 > 5:14:36- Do you have a temper?- People tell me I do have a temper, yes.
5:14:36 > 5:14:38So that's something you would admit?
5:14:38 > 5:14:39Absolutely, yeah.
5:14:39 > 5:14:43Is it something you think you need to rein in or control,
5:14:43 > 5:14:45you know, as First Minister?
5:14:45 > 5:14:47Um, it's funny you should say that,
5:14:47 > 5:14:49because I've been thinking about that,
5:14:49 > 5:14:51and when a woman, er...
5:14:51 > 5:14:54has passion in her voice
5:14:54 > 5:14:58and feels that she wants to say something quite strong
5:14:58 > 5:15:00about an issue, um, she's "emotional".
5:15:00 > 5:15:05But if a man was to do a similar speech or to say something similar,
5:15:05 > 5:15:08he would be "passionate" about an issue.
5:15:08 > 5:15:11So I think there is a difference in how women are perceived.
5:15:11 > 5:15:15Is it sexist of me to ask about temperament?
5:15:15 > 5:15:17Well, it is, a little. But it doesn't annoy me.
5:15:17 > 5:15:20I do think there is a difference
5:15:20 > 5:15:23in the way in which women are perceived in politics.
5:15:26 > 5:15:30As Arlene Foster said earlier, getting to this top job
5:15:30 > 5:15:33is the culmination of a very long journey,
5:15:33 > 5:15:37and one that is probably going to take some time to sink in.
5:15:37 > 5:15:42But that journey started, and her political consciousness was formed,
5:15:42 > 5:15:46in County Fermanagh, where she was born and where she grew up.
5:15:48 > 5:15:52So, what can her past tell us about the kind of First Minister
5:15:52 > 5:15:54she might turn out to be?
5:16:04 > 5:16:07- NEWSREADER:- This deceptive landscape has been the setting
5:16:07 > 5:16:10for a series of vicious sectarian murders and reprisals.
5:16:12 > 5:16:15The borderlands of rural Fermanagh.
5:16:15 > 5:16:20By the time Arlene Foster was born in 1970, Protestants and Unionists
5:16:20 > 5:16:24living here were already beginning to feel under siege.
5:16:24 > 5:16:28As the Troubles began in earnest, these border areas witnessed
5:16:28 > 5:16:31an exodus of Protestant families.
5:16:33 > 5:16:36Harold Andrews was one of Arlene Foster's neighbours,
5:16:36 > 5:16:39and one of those who refused to leave.
5:16:39 > 5:16:45There was an ethnic cleansing culture going on at the time,
5:16:45 > 5:16:47at night, especially in the winter time, anyway,
5:16:47 > 5:16:50you went in and you locked the door and you never went out,
5:16:50 > 5:16:52sort of thing, after dark, so you didn't.
5:16:52 > 5:16:56I was asked would I not consider leaving the area,
5:16:56 > 5:16:57by senior policemen.
5:16:57 > 5:17:00So the police advised you to leave?
5:17:00 > 5:17:03The police had asked me, would I not consider leaving the area.
5:17:03 > 5:17:05And why didn't you?
5:17:05 > 5:17:08Well, there had been five generations of Andrews
5:17:08 > 5:17:10in this particular area
5:17:10 > 5:17:13and I said the only way I was going to be leaving
5:17:13 > 5:17:15would be in a box, to my local graveyard.
5:17:21 > 5:17:24Arlene Foster, or Arlene Kelly, as she was then,
5:17:24 > 5:17:27lived just two miles down the road from here.
5:17:27 > 5:17:31Her father, John Kelly, was a constable in the RUC.
5:17:31 > 5:17:34In this area in the late 1970s,
5:17:34 > 5:17:37that made him a huge target for the IRA.
5:17:40 > 5:17:43Arlene Foster says that, until about the age of eight,
5:17:43 > 5:17:45she knew nothing about the Troubles,
5:17:45 > 5:17:47knew nothing about political violence,
5:17:47 > 5:17:52until the night in January 1979 when the IRA came
5:17:52 > 5:17:56to the family's isolated rural farmstead
5:17:56 > 5:18:00just up here outside Rosslea, and tried to murder her father.
5:18:06 > 5:18:09This is the original Kelly family homestead.
5:18:10 > 5:18:12The attack happened just here.
5:18:12 > 5:18:15Now, John Kelly, Arlene's father, had a nightly ritual.
5:18:15 > 5:18:18He would come out of the front door of his house just here
5:18:18 > 5:18:20and walk just a couple of metres to here.
5:18:20 > 5:18:22This used to be a cow shed.
5:18:22 > 5:18:24And he would check that his animals
5:18:24 > 5:18:26were securely locked in for the night.
5:18:26 > 5:18:30But on this particular January night, just as he put his hand
5:18:30 > 5:18:33on the lock, two IRA men who were hidden behind a hedge
5:18:33 > 5:18:38a couple of metres down there, opened up with automatic rifles.
5:18:38 > 5:18:42The very first shot grazed John Kelly on the head
5:18:42 > 5:18:44and he immediately dropped to the ground.
5:18:44 > 5:18:49And the many subsequent shots apparently riddled the cow shed behind him.
5:18:52 > 5:18:55My father came crawling in and he was bleeding,
5:18:55 > 5:19:00and he told us all to go upstairs, because in his bedroom
5:19:00 > 5:19:04there were flares which had been fitted in case of an emergency,
5:19:04 > 5:19:06and he put the flares off.
5:19:06 > 5:19:09And we were all lying on the bedroom floor.
5:19:09 > 5:19:12And, um, I think it was less than ten minutes later
5:19:12 > 5:19:13the police arrived,
5:19:13 > 5:19:18and, obviously, my father had to go to hospital after that.
5:19:18 > 5:19:21That must've felt like a very long ten minutes, though.
5:19:21 > 5:19:25It was a very long ten minutes. A very long ten minutes.
5:19:25 > 5:19:27The family came to believe
5:19:27 > 5:19:30that someone from the local Catholic community
5:19:30 > 5:19:34had provided the information that led to the targeting of John Kelly.
5:19:34 > 5:19:37This is the insidious thing at that time.
5:19:37 > 5:19:41If they were to operate, they needed information
5:19:41 > 5:19:43about individuals, and so that information
5:19:43 > 5:19:46had to be given by somebody local, you know?
5:19:46 > 5:19:50And so you started to think, well, who was it that set you up?
5:19:52 > 5:19:57The family had little choice but to move to the nearby town of Lisnaskea.
5:19:58 > 5:19:59Aged 11, Arlene Kelly went
5:19:59 > 5:20:02to Collegiate Girls Grammar School in Enniskillen.
5:20:04 > 5:20:07Kate Doherty was her careers teacher.
5:20:07 > 5:20:13I actually still have the careers record that we kept.
5:20:13 > 5:20:15From the very outset,
5:20:15 > 5:20:18Arlene made it clear that her interests
5:20:18 > 5:20:22were in areas like law and politics.
5:20:22 > 5:20:27Collegiate Grammar School in the 1980s didn't escape the Troubles.
5:20:27 > 5:20:31Over the years, I couldn't tell you how many funerals
5:20:31 > 5:20:37I attended, of usually the fathers of girls.
5:20:37 > 5:20:41Fathers who'd served in the forces in some capacity.
5:20:43 > 5:20:46Then, in November 1987,
5:20:46 > 5:20:50came an event that would traumatise many pupils and teachers.
5:20:54 > 5:20:58- NEWS REPORT:- A terrorist bomb kills 11 in Northern Ireland,
5:20:58 > 5:21:01timed to coincide with a Remembrance Day ceremony.
5:21:01 > 5:21:0453 others were injured, including many children.
5:21:08 > 5:21:13Arlene Kelly wasn't there that day. But many of her friends were.
5:21:15 > 5:21:19Of course, Marie Wilson, who had been a deputy head girl
5:21:19 > 5:21:21at the Collegiate had been murdered.
5:21:21 > 5:21:24They lived actually very close to school,
5:21:24 > 5:21:27so it was all very...close.
5:21:27 > 5:21:30The next day at school...
5:21:32 > 5:21:35..it was very surreal. It was very quiet
5:21:35 > 5:21:39and just a dreadful, dreadful time,
5:21:39 > 5:21:42watching the multiple funerals taking place.
5:21:46 > 5:21:50But for Arlene Kelly, the worst was still to come.
5:21:50 > 5:21:53A few months later, when she was still just 17,
5:21:53 > 5:21:56the IRA bombed her school bus.
5:21:57 > 5:22:01The IRA risked a dozen young lives in their attempt to kill the driver,
5:22:01 > 5:22:04a part-time member of the Ulster Defence Regiment.
5:22:04 > 5:22:06I closed my eyes.
5:22:06 > 5:22:08I just didn't know what was going on
5:22:08 > 5:22:12and there was about two or three seconds' silence.
5:22:12 > 5:22:15Then everybody started to scream.
5:22:15 > 5:22:18And I got up and said, "Don't panic, don't panic."
5:22:18 > 5:22:21One of her friends was seriously injured.
5:22:22 > 5:22:25The two girls had been sitting side by side.
5:22:27 > 5:22:31This was one of the seminal moments of Arlene Kelly's life.
5:22:31 > 5:22:35Instead of creating division, the IRA bomb has united the people
5:22:35 > 5:22:38in whose hands Northern Ireland's future lies.
5:22:40 > 5:22:43Were you traumatised by that bomb attack?
5:22:43 > 5:22:47I was, yes. I had nightmares and what have you after it.
5:22:47 > 5:22:49It did have an impact on me.
5:22:49 > 5:22:52Obviously, I remember it very clearly,
5:22:52 > 5:22:56in terms of the bomb going off, the silence,
5:22:56 > 5:22:59which I felt lasted for longer than obviously it did
5:22:59 > 5:23:01after the bomb went off.
5:23:01 > 5:23:05Would you describe yourself at any time as having been...
5:23:05 > 5:23:08bitter about what you saw when you were growing up?
5:23:08 > 5:23:11I have no doubt I was bitter when I was a teenager.
5:23:11 > 5:23:16It was a very difficult thing to have to deal with in a young mind.
5:23:16 > 5:23:20- So I've no doubt that was the case. - Have you changed?
5:23:20 > 5:23:23Goodness, I hope I have changed. I hope I have matured.
5:23:23 > 5:23:27I hope I realise what was going on and that the vast majority of people
5:23:27 > 5:23:29were not involved in that sort of thing.
5:23:29 > 5:23:32Do you remember doing an interview with Jeremy Paxman
5:23:32 > 5:23:36when you were, I think, 16, just after the bombing?
5:23:36 > 5:23:40- I would have been 17.- You were 17. Lower sixth, maybe.- That's right.
5:23:40 > 5:23:44It was you and a young woman called Madonna Murphy.
5:23:44 > 5:23:48- Yes, I do remember Madonna. - Who was one of the Catholic girls.
5:23:48 > 5:23:51It's just quite interesting in terms of what it said about division then.
5:23:51 > 5:23:53Maybe the division that still exists.
5:23:54 > 5:23:57'Madonna, can I ask you this? It's sometimes a bit hard for us
5:23:57 > 5:23:59'over on this side of the water to understand.'
5:23:59 > 5:24:02- Young Jeremy Paxman. - Young Jeremy Paxman.
5:24:02 > 5:24:03Young Arlene Foster, as well.
5:24:03 > 5:24:08- I don't remember this at all. - You don't?- 'What is the effect on Enniskillen of incidents like this?'
5:24:08 > 5:24:10It makes you realise it can't go on.
5:24:10 > 5:24:14You feel as if you have to do something...
5:24:14 > 5:24:17to improve relations between Catholics and Protestants.
5:24:17 > 5:24:19But surely relations are pretty good.
5:24:19 > 5:24:20You two are friends, are you not?
5:24:21 > 5:24:26We're not enemies, but I suppose we never really talk to each other.
5:24:26 > 5:24:28But we will from now on.
5:24:28 > 5:24:29Yeah, we always sat apart.
5:24:29 > 5:24:32In fact, everybody sits apart on our bus.
5:24:33 > 5:24:36'And are you going to change that now, Arlene?'
5:24:36 > 5:24:38Well, I think it's up to the whole bus to change it.
5:24:38 > 5:24:41In fact, it's up to all young people of Northern Ireland
5:24:41 > 5:24:44to change the way, and what is happening,
5:24:44 > 5:24:46to turn against the men of violence.
5:24:46 > 5:24:49Thank you both very much for joining us. Thank you.
5:24:50 > 5:24:54What is your first reaction to that?
5:24:54 > 5:24:58Well, my first reaction is I don't remember that interview, actually.
5:24:58 > 5:25:01- So I've managed to surprise you? - You have managed to surprise me.
5:25:01 > 5:25:04Absolutely. I hadn't remembered that at all.
5:25:04 > 5:25:06Jeremy Paxman asked you there, "Will you change this?"
5:25:06 > 5:25:09and you said, "Well, it's up to everyone to change it."
5:25:09 > 5:25:12Can you remember what happened after that? Did you still sit apart?
5:25:12 > 5:25:13We did still sit apart, I have to say.
5:25:13 > 5:25:16What struck me about what Madonna said, was
5:25:16 > 5:25:21Paxman says, "Are you friends?" And she says, "We're not enemies."
5:25:21 > 5:25:26And...I was wondering, is that maybe the best we can hope for?
5:25:26 > 5:25:28No, I don't think that's the best we can hope for
5:25:28 > 5:25:32and I know that children across the divide,
5:25:32 > 5:25:34regardless of where we are in Northern Ireland,
5:25:34 > 5:25:37have very strong friendships in a way that we didn't have.
5:25:37 > 5:25:40I mean, you have to remember, on this bus -
5:25:40 > 5:25:43and this is another vivid memory for me -
5:25:43 > 5:25:49when a UDR part-time soldier was murdered in Derrylin,
5:25:49 > 5:25:51a man called Jimmy Graham,
5:25:51 > 5:25:55I was only, I think, 13, 14 at the time...
5:25:57 > 5:26:01..and the young Catholics on the bus that day were cheering.
5:26:01 > 5:26:04You know, because a man had been murdered.
5:26:04 > 5:26:07And that's the sort of life we were living at that time
5:26:07 > 5:26:12so it should be of no surprise that there was a difficulty
5:26:12 > 5:26:15at that time between children from different backgrounds.
5:26:15 > 5:26:19And that stayed with me for quite a while, I have to say.
5:26:19 > 5:26:22Do you find that that experience
5:26:22 > 5:26:26and other experiences makes it very difficult for you to deal with people
5:26:26 > 5:26:30who in the past were involved in violent Republicanism?
5:26:30 > 5:26:32It's challenging. It's difficult.
5:26:32 > 5:26:33But in many ways it spurs me on
5:26:33 > 5:26:36to make sure that it doesn't happen in the future.
5:26:42 > 5:26:45Arlene Foster's relationship with Martin McGuinness
5:26:45 > 5:26:50is said to be business-like, without a lot of personal rapport.
5:26:50 > 5:26:54And there's a connection between the First and Deputy First Ministers
5:26:54 > 5:26:56that might further explain that.
5:26:56 > 5:26:58It goes back to the man
5:26:58 > 5:27:01who Arlene Foster believes tried to kill her father.
5:27:04 > 5:27:06This is Seamus McElwaine.
5:27:06 > 5:27:08A well-known IRA gunman,
5:27:08 > 5:27:12he was convicted of the murder of two off-duty members
5:27:12 > 5:27:14of the security forces in rural Fermanagh,
5:27:14 > 5:27:18but was thought by police to be responsible for many more.
5:27:18 > 5:27:23He was killed in 1986 by the SAS as he set a booby trap bomb,
5:27:23 > 5:27:26just outside the home of Arlene Foster's old neighbour,
5:27:26 > 5:27:27Harold Andrews.
5:27:29 > 5:27:31Just across the field here from where I am,
5:27:31 > 5:27:35Seamus McElwaine came in here to put off a culvert bomb
5:27:35 > 5:27:37directly in front of my own house.
5:27:37 > 5:27:41And had it went off, in the morning, when my wife
5:27:41 > 5:27:44was down with the children sitting up the road,
5:27:44 > 5:27:46they probably would have been blew to bits.
5:27:48 > 5:27:53At Seamus McElwaine's funeral, Martin McGuinness gave the oration.
5:27:53 > 5:27:56He referred to McElwaine as a "saint"
5:27:56 > 5:27:59and said he had been "murdered by a British terrorist".
5:28:01 > 5:28:03Do you think you know the identity
5:28:03 > 5:28:05of the person who tried to kill your father?
5:28:05 > 5:28:08Yes, I do. And he's no longer about.
5:28:08 > 5:28:13No, and...Martin McGuinness spoke at his funeral.
5:28:13 > 5:28:14Yeah.
5:28:16 > 5:28:19That must be quite difficult, even now, surely?
5:28:19 > 5:28:23It is quite difficult. If you talk to Martin McGuinness now,
5:28:23 > 5:28:27he will say, and I heard him say just recently,
5:28:27 > 5:28:29that Unionists aren't the enemy, the enemy is poverty.
5:28:29 > 5:28:32The enemy is unemployment, the enemy is this, that and the other.
5:28:32 > 5:28:35That's fine, but it doesn't take away from the fact
5:28:35 > 5:28:39that he thought it appropriate to speak at Seamus McElwaine's funeral.
5:28:39 > 5:28:44A man who had been responsible for murdering...
5:28:44 > 5:28:48many people in County Fermanagh.
5:28:48 > 5:28:52Earlier today, Martin McGuinness said that there is hurt on all sides,
5:28:52 > 5:28:56but that he and Arlene Foster can now give positive leadership.
5:28:57 > 5:29:01Newton Emerson believes that those personal experiences
5:29:01 > 5:29:05give Arlene Foster a great deal of credibility amongst Unionist voters.
5:29:05 > 5:29:09Foster has pitched herself with a particular message to the DUP base,
5:29:09 > 5:29:15which is that she is a Troubles victim and an RUC man's daughter.
5:29:15 > 5:29:18It plays to the whole belief
5:29:18 > 5:29:22that the Troubles were essentially a crimewave.
5:29:22 > 5:29:24It appeals in particular to the DUP
5:29:24 > 5:29:28by going straight down the middle of all its religious
5:29:28 > 5:29:30and secular and UUP and ex-UUP factions.
5:29:30 > 5:29:35That's a kind of universal message to the broad Unionist base.
5:29:39 > 5:29:44In 1989, Arlene Foster went to Queen's University in Belfast,
5:29:44 > 5:29:48to study law and, on day one, joined the Ulster Unionist Party.
5:29:48 > 5:29:51She soon made a name for herself.
5:29:51 > 5:29:55I've been talking to quite a few members of the Unionist community
5:29:55 > 5:30:00on the young side of things and they feel it is on a nationalist agenda.
5:30:05 > 5:30:08After graduating, she moved back to Fermanagh
5:30:08 > 5:30:12to train as a solicitor, got married and started a family.
5:30:12 > 5:30:14She worked in the law firm of James Cooper,
5:30:14 > 5:30:18a senior figure in the Ulster Unionist Party.
5:30:18 > 5:30:22But as David Trimble led the party in peace negotiations with Sinn Fein,
5:30:22 > 5:30:24Arlene Foster objected.
5:30:24 > 5:30:28She thought Trimble, and his supporters, like James Cooper,
5:30:28 > 5:30:30her boss, were moving too fast.
5:30:31 > 5:30:36Certainly, whilst we managed to keep politics out of the office here,
5:30:36 > 5:30:40in our professional relationship, a sort of deep unease developed.
5:30:40 > 5:30:43- Personally?- Well, I wouldn't call it personally,
5:30:43 > 5:30:46but it was clear that Arlene...
5:30:46 > 5:30:49had took a different political view from me.
5:30:49 > 5:30:52Working just down the hall is his opponent for the nomination.
5:30:52 > 5:30:56Arlene Foster, a solicitor employed by the practice,
5:30:56 > 5:30:58is against the Good Friday Agreement.
5:30:58 > 5:31:02I can remember well, even in this office, we would have one TV crew
5:31:02 > 5:31:06interviewing her about politics and another one interviewing me
5:31:06 > 5:31:09and we were clearly saying different things.
5:31:09 > 5:31:12- That is pretty awkward. - It was pretty awkward.
5:31:13 > 5:31:18In 2003, Arlene Foster was elected as an Ulster Unionist MLA for Fermanagh
5:31:18 > 5:31:22and South Tyrone, despite being openly critical of David Trimble.
5:31:22 > 5:31:27Then, just a few weeks later, in early 2004, she made perhaps
5:31:27 > 5:31:31the single most significant political decision of her life.
5:31:31 > 5:31:33She defected to the DUP.
5:31:34 > 5:31:36So I was faced with a decision.
5:31:36 > 5:31:39I either remain within the Ulster Unionist Party
5:31:39 > 5:31:42and abandon the principles which I have believed in
5:31:42 > 5:31:45since I was a teenager, or I leave.
5:31:45 > 5:31:50- Did you feel betrayed by her?- I am probably more pragmatic than most.
5:31:50 > 5:31:55But I think a lot of people in Fermanagh Unionism felt betrayed.
5:31:55 > 5:31:56I was disappointed.
5:31:56 > 5:32:01She was after winning her position as an Ulster Unionist.
5:32:01 > 5:32:05And then inside a matter of ten days, she jumped ship,
5:32:05 > 5:32:07as the saying goes, and joined the DUP.
5:32:07 > 5:32:09I was disappointed.
5:32:09 > 5:32:11Did you agonise over that,
5:32:11 > 5:32:15did you ever have a sense that you were betraying people?
5:32:15 > 5:32:20It was difficult. But I had to do what I thought was right.
5:32:20 > 5:32:23But did you ever feel, even on a personal level, in terms
5:32:23 > 5:32:26of the people you would have been working with, did you ever feel bad?
5:32:26 > 5:32:32Look, Declan, the unfortunate thing around the Ulster Unionist Party
5:32:32 > 5:32:34is that a lot of people had already left at that stage.
5:32:34 > 5:32:38And, frankly, the people that stayed and who I was friendly with,
5:32:38 > 5:32:40I'm still friendly with today.
5:32:41 > 5:32:45Arlene Foster became the trusted protege of Peter Robinson,
5:32:45 > 5:32:47and her loyalty was repaid.
5:32:47 > 5:32:50She survived reshuffle after reshuffle,
5:32:50 > 5:32:53spending more time at the Executive table as a minister
5:32:53 > 5:32:58than anyone else except for Robinson and McGuinness.
5:32:58 > 5:33:02Robinson obviously saw a kindred spirit in Arlene Foster
5:33:02 > 5:33:04and someone who he trusted with his vision
5:33:04 > 5:33:05of how the party would develop.
5:33:05 > 5:33:09And I think it's pretty easy to see how he saw that.
5:33:09 > 5:33:13Foster is not especially moderate, but not a hardliner.
5:33:13 > 5:33:15She's not on the fundamentalist wing of the party
5:33:15 > 5:33:19but nor is she particularly socially liberal
5:33:19 > 5:33:24and she is ex-UUP but she has been very hard-working
5:33:24 > 5:33:27at establishing herself across the DUP base.
5:33:27 > 5:33:30In 2010, when Peter Robinson stepped aside for six weeks
5:33:30 > 5:33:35following a Spotlight investigation into financial transactions
5:33:35 > 5:33:37arising out of his wife's affair with Kirk McCambley,
5:33:37 > 5:33:41Arlene Foster became acting First Minister.
5:33:41 > 5:33:45She was now a clear contender for the leadership of the DUP.
5:33:45 > 5:33:47My role in all of this
5:33:47 > 5:33:50is to deal with the routine issues in relation to OFMDFM,
5:33:50 > 5:33:53to ensure that things run smoothly.
5:33:53 > 5:33:56Does this elevation for you today put you in the prime position
5:33:56 > 5:33:59for becoming the leader of the party?
5:33:59 > 5:34:01I wouldn't say that at all.
5:34:01 > 5:34:03In 2014, Arlene Foster was featured
5:34:03 > 5:34:06in a Spotlight programme about MLAs' expenses.
5:34:06 > 5:34:09The programme investigated her business relationship
5:34:09 > 5:34:11with this man, David Mahon.
5:34:11 > 5:34:14He's a leading property dealer in County Fermanagh
5:34:14 > 5:34:16and a senior figure in the Orange Order.
5:34:16 > 5:34:20I have my son here which is a member of the lodge and my grandson,
5:34:20 > 5:34:23which is wearing a wee lodge collaret.
5:34:23 > 5:34:26He featured in a separate Spotlight investigation last year,
5:34:26 > 5:34:30when I put allegations to him that some of the property companies
5:34:30 > 5:34:32he controlled appeared to be part of an agenda,
5:34:32 > 5:34:34inspired by the Orange Order,
5:34:34 > 5:34:39to keep land in border areas in the hands of Protestants.
5:34:39 > 5:34:41So this idea that people have told us about,
5:34:41 > 5:34:45that there was a movement, particularly after Drumcree
5:34:45 > 5:34:48in order to invest in properties like that on contentious parade routes,
5:34:48 > 5:34:50or buy up particular bits of land, or property,
5:34:50 > 5:34:52doesn't ring a bell with you?
5:34:52 > 5:34:55It doesn't ring a bell with me, but I'm not confirming or denying it.
5:34:55 > 5:35:00The Spotlight programme on MLAs' expanses revealed how Arlene Foster
5:35:00 > 5:35:03rented two constituency offices from David Mahon,
5:35:03 > 5:35:06and he was involved in selling property to her and her husband.
5:35:06 > 5:35:10One of the offices she occupied was rented from David Mahon
5:35:10 > 5:35:13at a very low rent, and the programme investigated
5:35:13 > 5:35:16whether it could be construed as a gift.
5:35:16 > 5:35:20Arlene Foster vigorously denied she had broken any rules,
5:35:20 > 5:35:22and also took to the airwaves to criticise the BBC.
5:35:24 > 5:35:27This is typical, very typical of the BBC
5:35:27 > 5:35:30and the parasitical nature of the BBC
5:35:30 > 5:35:34and the fact they want to give out a diet of bad news and negativity
5:35:34 > 5:35:37to the people of Northern Ireland on an ongoing basis.
5:35:37 > 5:35:39Why did you react like that?
5:35:39 > 5:35:45I think, looking back at that time, I was angry and upset,
5:35:45 > 5:35:49because, for me, my reputation is very, very important.
5:35:49 > 5:35:52As well as that, it was a particularly difficult time
5:35:52 > 5:35:56for me in terms of my personal life.
5:35:56 > 5:35:58Someone very close to me had passed away.
5:35:58 > 5:36:01And...you know, we all make mistakes.
5:36:01 > 5:36:05We all say things that perhaps with hindsight we shouldn't have said
5:36:05 > 5:36:08but it was a particularly difficult time.
5:36:12 > 5:36:14Arlene Foster has been described
5:36:14 > 5:36:18as the most powerful politician in Northern Ireland.
5:36:18 > 5:36:22If she is, it's a power heavily restricted by the nature
5:36:22 > 5:36:26of the political arrangements between the DUP and Sinn Fein.
5:36:26 > 5:36:28You're working with a party there,
5:36:28 > 5:36:32in government, who don't necessarily want Northern Ireland to work,
5:36:32 > 5:36:36who just see it as a stepping stone towards a united Ireland.
5:36:36 > 5:36:37There are some in Sinn Fein,
5:36:37 > 5:36:41most of Sinn Fein can't even say the name of the country,
5:36:41 > 5:36:43never mind try to make it work.
5:36:43 > 5:36:46But do I believe that some of Sinn Fein
5:36:46 > 5:36:49want to do good for the people who live here,
5:36:49 > 5:36:52regardless of what you would call it? Yes, I do.
5:36:52 > 5:36:54I believe that the future of this country
5:36:54 > 5:36:57is firmly within the United Kingdom. I don't believe it's something
5:36:57 > 5:37:02that is thought about by people on a daily basis, to be honest.
5:37:02 > 5:37:06I think most people are more concerned with their daily lives
5:37:06 > 5:37:08and how things are going for their children
5:37:08 > 5:37:10and how well they're doing in their job
5:37:10 > 5:37:13and, "Is there a health care service to look after my elderly parents?"
5:37:13 > 5:37:16Those are the things that affect people on a daily basis
5:37:16 > 5:37:18and frankly they're not really thinking
5:37:18 > 5:37:20about the constitutional position of Northern Ireland.
5:37:20 > 5:37:23Now, Arlene Foster is in a position
5:37:23 > 5:37:26to make a difference to all of those issues.
5:37:26 > 5:37:29But it's been a long journey to get there.
5:37:29 > 5:37:32What has happened to Arlene, the road that she has travelled,
5:37:32 > 5:37:34I think helps to...
5:37:34 > 5:37:38Sometimes when you talk about things in the abstract,
5:37:38 > 5:37:40it's very hard to communicate them.
5:37:40 > 5:37:44But when you look at one person's life, and what has happened to them,
5:37:44 > 5:37:47I think that can help to bring home to younger people
5:37:47 > 5:37:50just what it was like. Although they're never...
5:37:50 > 5:37:53We hope they will never have to experience
5:37:53 > 5:37:55anything like she experienced.
5:37:56 > 5:38:00Arlene Foster grew up in a very different Northern Ireland
5:38:00 > 5:38:02to the one which we know today.
5:38:02 > 5:38:06It was a place of real threat and constant fear.
5:38:06 > 5:38:10Her experience of it made her who she is.
5:38:10 > 5:38:12But now there's a new chapter,
5:38:12 > 5:38:15in which she and her former enemy Martin McGuinness
5:38:15 > 5:38:17will play a significant role.
5:38:19 > 5:38:21- How's Arlene?- I'm well.
5:38:21 > 5:38:25Proving once again that in politics, nothing is impossible.