0:00:06 > 0:00:10Almost two years ago, Northern Ireland woke up
0:00:10 > 0:00:13to the biggest property deal anyone here has ever seen.
0:00:13 > 0:00:16Almost 900 properties.
0:00:16 > 0:00:22Over ?1 billion.
0:00:22 > 0:00:28This is not an ordinary transaction.
0:00:28 > 0:00:30This is the largest transaction in the history of Northern Ireland.
0:00:30 > 0:00:33The largest since the plantations.
0:00:33 > 0:00:36And not a single For Sale sign anywhere. This deal saw the transfer
0:00:36 > 0:00:40of a massive property loan portfolio from the Irish Government agency
0:00:40 > 0:00:43Nama to an American vulture fund.
0:00:43 > 0:00:48And the start of a financial scandal that goes to the heart of power
0:00:48 > 0:00:54and influence in Northern Ireland.
0:00:54 > 0:01:00Tonight on Spotlight we expose the extent of that scandal.
0:01:00 > 0:01:03Because when three businessmen sat down last year to talk
0:01:03 > 0:01:08about the payoff, Spotlight was there.
0:01:08 > 0:01:15What was revealed was an attempt to illegally distribute millions
0:01:15 > 0:01:18of pounds to this man: Former First Minister Peter Robinson's friend
0:01:18 > 0:01:25and troubleshooter, Frank Cushnahan. When the money came
0:01:25 > 0:01:28in he, he actually moved six million of it.
0:01:28 > 0:01:33Cushnahan's done all this work, therefore, he's entitled to his fee.
0:01:33 > 0:01:38A scandal that we can reveal has just been officially reported
0:01:38 > 0:01:48by a whistle-blower to America's most powerful financial
0:01:49 > 0:01:57investigations agency.
0:02:01 > 0:02:04This is a story about debt: Not
0:02:04 > 0:02:08the kind that comes with a mortgage or a credit card, but debt that can
0:02:08 > 0:02:12only be acquired by the very rich.
0:02:12 > 0:02:22The kind of debt that would make two governments sit up and take notice.
0:02:23 > 0:02:26This is the story of a billion pound plan to cut that debt.
0:02:26 > 0:02:27And it starts
0:02:27 > 0:02:28with the men who made it happen.
0:02:28 > 0:02:31These were people who would be regarded as pillars
0:02:31 > 0:02:35of the establishment in many ways.
0:02:35 > 0:02:37The fixers at the heart of a transaction that is now
0:02:37 > 0:02:43the subject of criminal and parliamentary inquiries.
0:02:43 > 0:02:46When these people spoke, they spoke with some authority,
0:02:46 > 0:02:48knowledge and expertise. Ian Coulter is one of the people
0:02:48 > 0:02:50the former First Minister was talking about.
0:02:50 > 0:02:56He certainly spoke with authority.
0:02:56 > 0:03:01If they set that as a target date let's meet it and give the business
0:03:01 > 0:03:06the chance it needs to grow the economy by having a very
0:03:06 > 0:03:08positive image internationally.
0:03:08 > 0:03:18Ian Coulter has an impressive CV.
0:03:20 > 0:03:22He was the managing partners in one of Northern Ireland's biggest law
0:03:22 > 0:03:24firms,
0:03:24 > 0:03:26he was also the first solicitor here to head the Confederation
0:03:26 > 0:03:29of British Industry and he was even named Northern Ireland's deal maker
0:03:29 > 0:03:31of the year. Coulter was at the very pinnacle
0:03:31 > 0:03:32of his profession.
0:03:32 > 0:03:35Then suddenly last year, he walked away from it all.
0:03:35 > 0:03:39A few weeks later, he was under investigation by the Law Society -
0:03:39 > 0:03:42an investigation started by his own firm, Tughans.
0:03:42 > 0:03:45That inquiry has now been going on for over a year.
0:03:45 > 0:03:50Spotlight has also been investigating what happened.
0:03:50 > 0:03:54Almost ten months ago, we learned that Ian Coulter had
0:03:54 > 0:03:57moved millions of pounds out of his law firm to a holding account
0:03:57 > 0:04:07on the Isle of Man. We had learned that the money
0:04:07 > 0:04:11was intended to be a payment, part of a fixer's fee for a deal
0:04:11 > 0:04:13involving Ian Coulter. He was a lawyer for the buyer.
0:04:13 > 0:04:15The sellers were Nama, an agency of the Irish Government.
0:04:15 > 0:04:20Nama was created to save Irish banks after the crash.
0:04:20 > 0:04:24Overnight it had become the biggest player in property
0:04:24 > 0:04:28in Northern Ireland - controlling a portfolio once worth ?4.5 billion
0:04:28 > 0:04:31The deal that Ian Coulter had helped to fix was the sale
0:04:31 > 0:04:35of this vast portfolio.
0:04:35 > 0:04:40But last summer, in the Dail, explosive allegations were made
0:04:40 > 0:04:42about the fixer's fee controlled by Coulter.
0:04:42 > 0:04:44Sorry settle down.
0:04:44 > 0:04:49Deputy Wallace.
0:04:49 > 0:04:51Independent TD Mick Wallace claimed in the Irish parliament that
0:04:51 > 0:04:54Coulter's money was a kickback for a politician.
0:04:54 > 0:05:00Do you have any concerns that a routine audit of a solicitor's
0:05:00 > 0:05:04firm that looked after that particular deal where 4.5 billion
0:05:04 > 0:05:07of assets were sold for 1.5, euros with a massive loss
0:05:07 > 0:05:10for the Irish taxpayer?
0:05:10 > 0:05:13A routine audit actually showed up where seven million sterling ended
0:05:13 > 0:05:20up in an Isle of Man bank account.
0:05:20 > 0:05:22It was reportedly earmarked for a Northern Ireland
0:05:22 > 0:05:24politician or party.
0:05:24 > 0:05:31Would Deputy Wallace give all those details to An Garda Siochana?
0:05:31 > 0:05:33Do you not think it should be looked at?
0:05:33 > 0:05:36No actual evidence of payment to a politician has emerged
0:05:36 > 0:05:38And Mick Wallace's claim was denied by Ian Coulter,
0:05:38 > 0:05:43the man who moved the money.
0:05:43 > 0:05:48This is the Assembly Committee Room 30.
0:05:48 > 0:05:57Parliamentary investigations started on both sides of the border.
0:05:57 > 0:06:00And much of the focus has been on the two men Peter Robinson called
0:06:00 > 0:06:10establishment figures: Ian Coulter and this man, Frank Cushnahan.
0:06:11 > 0:06:13Look, I made it clear publicly that I have been friendly
0:06:13 > 0:06:18with Frank for many years.
0:06:18 > 0:06:22Frank Cushnahan was the other man Peter Robinson called a pillar
0:06:22 > 0:06:24of the establishment. And here's the evidence the former
0:06:24 > 0:06:29First Minister was right.
0:06:29 > 0:06:36This is Cushnahan Quay.
0:06:36 > 0:06:42A massive section of Belfast Harbour named after the man who once
0:06:42 > 0:06:44presided over it.
0:06:44 > 0:06:48Frank Cushnahan is an incredibly well connected
0:06:48 > 0:06:50Belfast businessman.
0:06:50 > 0:06:53He was chairman of the Belfast Harbour Commission for eight years.
0:06:53 > 0:07:00His portrait hangs in their offices.
0:07:00 > 0:07:02A former banker, he's been appointed to a range of Government advisory
0:07:02 > 0:07:05posts by both direct rule and Executive ministers.
0:07:05 > 0:07:09Do you view Frank Cushnahan as an honourable man?
0:07:09 > 0:07:12I think that the general view of Frank Cushnahan,
0:07:12 > 0:07:19in that he was used very considerably as an expert in these
0:07:19 > 0:07:22areas, I was almost going to use the word guru in terms of banking
0:07:22 > 0:07:32and financial issues.
0:07:32 > 0:07:35When the First Minister called for help, Frank Cushnahan answered.
0:07:35 > 0:07:38he was credited with staving off the collapse of the
0:07:38 > 0:07:40Presbyterian Mutual Society.
0:07:40 > 0:07:48And he found a mystery benefactor to rescue Glentoran football club.
0:07:48 > 0:07:52But not everyone holds Frank Cushnahan in such high esteem.
0:07:52 > 0:07:54His behaviour was criticised by a Stormont investigation
0:07:54 > 0:08:00into the East Belfast company Red Sky.
0:08:00 > 0:08:03On the management of Housing Executive maintenance
0:08:03 > 0:08:06contracts, the Assembly's Public Accounts Committee said that
0:08:06 > 0:08:07Mr Cushnahan's involvement in these negotiations was,
0:08:07 > 0:08:11quote: Totally unethical and could and should
0:08:11 > 0:08:17have been avoided.
0:08:17 > 0:08:20Was the unethical aspect the fact that he had been a serving member
0:08:20 > 0:08:23of the Housing Executive's audit committee?
0:08:23 > 0:08:28I believe he did serve in that post, yes.
0:08:28 > 0:08:30Nine years ago, Frank Cushnahan was an advisor to the Housing
0:08:30 > 0:08:34Executive.
0:08:34 > 0:08:37But he left that post to become chairman of Red Sky,
0:08:37 > 0:08:42a company that worked for the Housing Executive.
0:08:42 > 0:08:49He persuaded the Housing Executive to forgive most of Red Sky's debts.
0:08:49 > 0:08:53Then negotiated down debts, allegedly, of the order of a quarter
0:08:53 > 0:08:55of a million to ?20,000.
0:08:55 > 0:08:56Is that accurate?
0:08:56 > 0:08:58Yes, that is correct.
0:08:58 > 0:09:03To the best of our knowledge, yes.
0:09:03 > 0:09:08The Public Accounts Committee found that in 2007, Frank Cushnahan had
0:09:08 > 0:09:14played on both sides of the fence to Red Sky's advantage.
0:09:14 > 0:09:18Two years later, Frank was presented with an even bigger opportunity.
0:09:18 > 0:09:25In 2009 the Dublin Government created the National Asset
0:09:25 > 0:09:28Management Agency, Nama, to buy up the toxic debt
0:09:28 > 0:09:29that
0:09:29 > 0:09:32threatened to destabilise the entire economy.
0:09:32 > 0:09:42And by doing so, created one of the world's biggest ever property
0:09:42 > 0:09:46portfolios, worth nearly ?60 billion.
0:09:46 > 0:09:51And what was significant for Northern Ireland was that
0:09:51 > 0:09:55?4.5 billion of that debt was owed by developers based here.
0:09:55 > 0:09:58Many politicians feared the Irish government would hold a fire sale -
0:09:58 > 0:10:03quickly selling off swathes of property at once.
0:10:03 > 0:10:06They feared that could drive property prices even lower,
0:10:06 > 0:10:15as the then Finance Minister told Spotlight in 2011.
0:10:15 > 0:10:22I think we are entering a much more dangerous phase,
0:10:22 > 0:10:26because now Nama have to decide those businesses we have taken in,
0:10:26 > 0:10:30first of all what are we going to do with the land and that's
0:10:30 > 0:10:32where the fire sale danger could arise, where if they simply
0:10:32 > 0:10:35try to off load all of that land on to the market,
0:10:35 > 0:10:41it would make the situation far, far worse
0:10:41 > 0:10:43So Nama agreed to set up a Northern Ireland advisory committee.
0:10:43 > 0:10:46Handpicked by Sammy Wilson to sit on that committee,
0:10:46 > 0:10:51was none other than Frank Cushnahan.
0:10:51 > 0:10:53That gave Frank Cushnahan influence with both Nama
0:10:53 > 0:10:56and Northern Ireland politicians.
0:10:56 > 0:10:59So when it came to Northern Ireland's biggest ever property deal
0:10:59 > 0:11:09Frank Cushnahan had the inside track.
0:11:13 > 0:11:19It is amazing to think that right in the middle of Belfast this entire
0:11:19 > 0:11:21block of shops, retail offices, this all went into Nama.
0:11:21 > 0:11:23Yeah.
0:11:23 > 0:11:30It was just really the scale of the acquisition.
0:11:30 > 0:11:33It pretty much put Nama up there as one of the top property
0:11:33 > 0:11:43companies in the world, really overnight.
0:11:43 > 0:11:47That found its way into the Nama portfolio
0:11:47 > 0:11:52as well.
0:11:52 > 0:11:56The impact on Northern Ireland of the Nama acquisition
0:11:56 > 0:11:58was so vast its effects could be seen everywhere.
0:11:58 > 0:12:00And even this building, the Invest Northern Ireland
0:12:00 > 0:12:05building.
0:12:05 > 0:12:09Another iconic building that found its way into the Nama portfolio.
0:12:09 > 0:12:11But Nama wasn't really about buying up property,
0:12:11 > 0:12:13It was about buying up the bad debt, bad debt owed
0:12:13 > 0:12:20by very few developers.
0:12:20 > 0:12:22More than ?4 billion was owed by just 55 debtors.
0:12:22 > 0:12:25And the vast bulk of that debt was with a handful of people.
0:12:25 > 0:12:28Just as many people found their homes had gone into negative
0:12:28 > 0:12:30equity, the properties owned by the developers were worth
0:12:30 > 0:12:35a fraction of what they actually owed.
0:12:35 > 0:12:39That put Nama in control of not just buildings and land,
0:12:39 > 0:12:41but all the trappings of wealth and a million pound
0:12:41 > 0:12:45collection of paintings.
0:12:45 > 0:12:47And for many developers the risk extended to the very home
0:12:47 > 0:12:50they lived in.
0:12:50 > 0:12:52That's because they secured their loans with what's known
0:12:52 > 0:12:56as personal guarantees.
0:12:56 > 0:13:01A personal guarantee means that should the thing fail,
0:13:01 > 0:13:05or should the bank or the lender need its money back it can seize
0:13:05 > 0:13:06the home of the Director concerned.
0:13:06 > 0:13:15So he's basically putting, he's putting his house on the line.
0:13:15 > 0:13:17And Nama were very clear they were going after these guarantees.
0:13:17 > 0:13:19I was asked the question specifically,
0:13:19 > 0:13:21"Will we seek to enforce personal guarantees?"
0:13:21 > 0:13:27The answer was, as a policy, "Yes.
0:13:27 > 0:13:30Absolutely."
0:13:30 > 0:13:32The developers were desperate to get out
0:13:32 > 0:13:35from under the debt.
0:13:35 > 0:13:37But Nama was prevented by law from negotiating any kind
0:13:37 > 0:13:38of settlement with the developers.
0:13:38 > 0:13:40That's because the Southern taxpayers who had bailed out
0:13:40 > 0:13:43the developers in the first place would not stand for handing their
0:13:43 > 0:13:46property back at what inevitably would be a discount,
0:13:46 > 0:13:56as NAMA chairman Frank Daly told us in 2011.
0:13:56 > 0:13:59Under the NAMA legislation, the NAMA act of 2009,
0:13:59 > 0:14:02we are actually precluded from selling back an asset
0:14:02 > 0:14:07to a defaulting debtor, so that is an immediate barrier.
0:14:07 > 0:14:12You take an asset off somebody at a discounted value,
0:14:12 > 0:14:15and then if the day afterwards you sell them back that at that
0:14:15 > 0:14:17discounted value, the tax payers who have funded the gap
0:14:17 > 0:14:26will understandably be very irate and very upset.
0:14:26 > 0:14:29The developers were simply stuck.
0:14:29 > 0:14:33For several years they were unable to buy back their properties.
0:14:33 > 0:14:36But at least NAMA wasn't selling them to anyone else.
0:14:36 > 0:14:39In April 2013, something happened that made it look
0:14:39 > 0:14:46like that was all about to change.
0:14:46 > 0:14:48The administrator appointed to operate a Portrush hotel says it
0:14:48 > 0:14:49will be business as usual.
0:14:49 > 0:14:53It's not clear what the long term future of the Ramada in the town
0:14:53 > 0:14:56will be after the owners lost control to NAMA.
0:15:08 > 0:15:12The owners of this hotel had tens of millions tied up
0:15:12 > 0:15:14in loan guarantees.
0:15:14 > 0:15:21In April 2013, Nama called in those loans.
0:15:21 > 0:15:24The family say they had 24 hours to pay back ?48 million.
0:15:24 > 0:15:30At that stage, this hotel was worth less than three.
0:15:30 > 0:15:35The hotel was part of the Kennedy family group.
0:15:35 > 0:15:37This is gladiatorial isn't it.
0:15:37 > 0:15:40They're going to be swinging a ball and chain at each soon.
0:15:40 > 0:15:42In 2009, the Kennedys were secure enough to sponsor
0:15:42 > 0:15:43the North West 200.
0:15:43 > 0:15:45The North West 200.
0:15:45 > 0:15:46Look at that.
0:15:46 > 0:15:48Just two years later, they were in debt to NAMA.
0:15:48 > 0:15:55Over the line.
0:15:55 > 0:15:57And in 2013, after failing to make repayments, NAMA called
0:15:57 > 0:16:00in the administrators.
0:16:00 > 0:16:03The DUP was particularly concerned.
0:16:03 > 0:16:06NAMA's move against the hotel was raised by the local MP
0:16:06 > 0:16:10Gregory Campbell and the MP for the neighbouring constituency,
0:16:10 > 0:16:13Ian Paisley Junior.
0:16:13 > 0:16:16Finance Minister Sammy Wilson phoned NAMA chairman Frank Daly
0:16:16 > 0:16:21the next day.
0:16:21 > 0:16:24It came as a shock to everybody that here was a hotel, a major hotel,
0:16:24 > 0:16:26and suddenly at the beginning of the holiday period,
0:16:26 > 0:16:30Nama decide to close it.
0:16:30 > 0:16:33This was my worry: that we would going to start feeling the hard end
0:16:33 > 0:16:36of NAMA's actions on some businesses in Northern Ireland and there were
0:16:36 > 0:16:45going to be political consequences.
0:16:47 > 0:16:50NAMA was under scrutiny but it was clearly ready to start
0:16:50 > 0:16:52selling Northern Ireland property.
0:16:52 > 0:16:58And that was making developers and politicians anxious.
0:16:58 > 0:17:01A few weeks later, seemingly out of nowhere,
0:17:01 > 0:17:11a saviour suddenly appeared.
0:17:11 > 0:17:12Pimco.
0:17:12 > 0:17:15A company with more than a trillion dollars at its disposal wanted
0:17:15 > 0:17:17to buy NAMA out of Northern Ireland.
0:17:17 > 0:17:19There are reasons to be cautiously optimistic to investment
0:17:19 > 0:17:23opportunities to managers like PIMCO.
0:17:23 > 0:17:25This was a golden opportunity for developers to get
0:17:25 > 0:17:28their properties back.
0:17:28 > 0:17:31Pimco is the world's largest bond fund manager and they're a quite
0:17:31 > 0:17:33well respected player in the asset management space.
0:17:33 > 0:17:38And the idea that they should actually get into physically owning
0:17:38 > 0:17:40huge tranches of real estate in Northern Ireland is actually
0:17:40 > 0:17:48quite unusual it's not their core business.
0:17:48 > 0:17:48From
0:17:48 > 0:17:49From a
0:17:53 > 0:17:56But rather than go to Dublin to meet NAMA who actually controlled
0:17:56 > 0:17:59the property, PIMCO turned up at Stormont.
0:17:59 > 0:18:05In May 2013, officials from the fund met Peter Robinson and Sammy Wilson
0:18:07 > 0:18:10And the men who were also at that meeting were?
0:18:10 > 0:18:17Ian Coulter and Frank Cushnahan.
0:18:17 > 0:18:2050,000 surely to start me.
0:18:20 > 0:18:2350 or 45.
0:18:23 > 0:18:26So NAMA's Northern Ireland's portfolio was on the auction block -
0:18:26 > 0:18:32but NAMA didn't even know it.
0:18:32 > 0:18:3790,000, I like you, at 90,000, that's the way to do it.
0:18:37 > 0:18:44Frank Cushnahan, NAMA's own adviser hadn't told them he was setting up
0:18:44 > 0:18:47the biggest property deal in Northern Ireland's history.
0:18:49 > 0:18:52It seems astonishing that one of their prized assets which is this
0:18:52 > 0:18:54portfolio of properties, should be hawked around
0:18:54 > 0:19:02without their knowledge, I mean I can't believe it.
0:19:02 > 0:19:03It's odd, if they didn't know, yeah.
0:19:03 > 0:19:06But it also tells you something about the thinking of those
0:19:06 > 0:19:09who arranged these meetings, which was, the only way to get
0:19:09 > 0:19:11things done it to get politicians on the job.
0:19:11 > 0:19:13Frank Cushnahan says his NAMA work had nothing to do
0:19:13 > 0:19:15with the PIMCO meeting.
0:19:15 > 0:19:19But an expert on NAMA legislation, says he shouldn't have been involved
0:19:19 > 0:19:25with PIMCO and NAMA.
0:19:25 > 0:19:27The code of conduct that deals with the committees of NAMA
0:19:27 > 0:19:29including the Advisory Committee requires that everyone act
0:19:29 > 0:19:32in the best interest of NAMA and certainly if you're acting
0:19:32 > 0:19:35on behalf of a third party, if you're acting for someone other
0:19:35 > 0:19:37than NAMA that wouldn't be appropriate under
0:19:37 > 0:19:38the code of practice.
0:19:38 > 0:19:40But this wasn't Frank Cushnahan's first meeting without NAMA's
0:19:40 > 0:19:44knowledge.
0:19:47 > 0:19:50Spotlight can reveal that by the time PIMCO was introduced
0:19:50 > 0:19:55to Peter Robinson, Cushnahan's involvement in the deal was already
0:19:55 > 0:20:00much deeper than NAMA knew.
0:20:00 > 0:20:03Weeks earlier, Frank Cushnahan and Ian Coulter had teamed up
0:20:03 > 0:20:08with a major London law firm, Brown Rudnick.
0:20:08 > 0:20:12Together they spoke to several big investment houses in London
0:20:12 > 0:20:17at the end of April 2013.
0:20:17 > 0:20:22Frank Cushnahan didn't tell NAMA.
0:20:22 > 0:20:26If you're having meetings in secret with people in terms of dealings
0:20:26 > 0:20:28with specifically a NAMA transaction, then that should
0:20:28 > 0:20:31be disclosed to NAMA.
0:20:31 > 0:20:35It would be a very serious breach of the NAMA Act not to disclose
0:20:35 > 0:20:39that to NAMA.
0:20:39 > 0:20:44Last month Frank Cushnahan's lawyer told NAMA about the London meetings
0:20:44 > 0:20:46and said Cushnahan had been talking to investors about generic
0:20:46 > 0:20:51opportunities for investment.
0:20:51 > 0:20:55But PIMCO says the meeting its representatives took part
0:20:55 > 0:20:58in was about identifying "potential purchasers for the NAMA
0:20:58 > 0:21:04Northern Irish portfolio." And PIMCO says this was when they were offered
0:21:04 > 0:21:09the extraordinary access that led to the meeting with Peter Robinson.
0:21:09 > 0:21:13Ian Coulter and Frank Cushnahan claimed to know what the Northern
0:21:13 > 0:21:19Ireland executive thinks, and what the Northern Ireland
0:21:19 > 0:21:24Executive will do, what does that tell you?
0:21:24 > 0:21:27Well, I suppose it shows they've had you know previous discussion
0:21:27 > 0:21:35with senior members of the Northern Ireland government
0:21:35 > 0:21:37or else they're just half hitting and actually they're just making it
0:21:37 > 0:21:40up, but I suspect it's the former.
0:21:40 > 0:21:42Frank Cushnahan says he did not arrange the PIMCO
0:21:42 > 0:21:46meeting at Stormont.
0:21:46 > 0:21:48But Peter Robinson told us it WAS initiated by Frank Cushnahan
0:21:48 > 0:21:53and Ian Coulter.
0:21:53 > 0:21:55We might have expressed an interest or a willingness to have such
0:21:55 > 0:22:00a meeting, but we never requested it.
0:22:00 > 0:22:06The Sinn Fein Assembly member leading Stormont's inquiry
0:22:06 > 0:22:08into the sale says the Ministers should have known better.
0:22:08 > 0:22:16I think any Minister should have had alarm bells going off in their head,
0:22:16 > 0:22:19when they saw Mr Cushnahan involved in the potential sale
0:22:19 > 0:22:24of the portfolio, whilst at the same time sitting on the Nama Committee.
0:22:24 > 0:22:28Sammy Wilson wasn't alarmed.
0:22:28 > 0:22:30He wrote to Irish Finance Minister Michael Noonan with PIMCO's proposal
0:22:30 > 0:22:38- the fund wanted a private, closed-market sale.
0:22:38 > 0:22:44But that presented a problem, because NAMA is supposed to get
0:22:44 > 0:22:49the best return for the Irish taxpayers, it's meant
0:22:49 > 0:22:52to sell its assets competitively on the open market.
0:22:52 > 0:22:54It's extraordinary that you have two senior ministers,
0:22:54 > 0:22:59in two different administrations, in contact, about how a major sale
0:22:59 > 0:23:02should, should operate, and it seems to me that there
0:23:02 > 0:23:04are political pressures, and unhealthy political pressures,
0:23:04 > 0:23:10building up here.
0:23:10 > 0:23:14Sammy Wilson later downplayed the significance of this letter.
0:23:14 > 0:23:15Here is the important thing.
0:23:15 > 0:23:17At that time,
0:23:17 > 0:23:21it was not an important issue.
0:23:21 > 0:23:27This was kind of a flyer almost to see whether Nama
0:23:27 > 0:23:29and the Irish Government were interested in a deal of this
0:23:29 > 0:23:35sort.
0:23:35 > 0:23:40The Irish Finance Minister sent the proposal on to Nama.
0:23:40 > 0:23:44Nama had never considered a sale this big before.
0:23:44 > 0:23:50But the agency was obviously interested.
0:23:50 > 0:23:51By September 2013,
0:23:51 > 0:23:57Nama had started talking directly to Pimco.
0:23:57 > 0:23:59That same month, Peter Robinson made a crucial intervention.
0:23:59 > 0:24:03In a speech to DUP supporters, the First Minister attacked Nama
0:24:03 > 0:24:09and for the first time, he publicly advocated selling Nama's
0:24:09 > 0:24:14entire Northern Ireland portfolio in one go.
0:24:14 > 0:24:19Both Nama and the Irish Government were surprised by the First
0:24:19 > 0:24:20Minister's speech.
0:24:20 > 0:24:23NAMA chairman Frank Daly said it was at odds
0:24:23 > 0:24:25with everything that had previously come out
0:24:25 > 0:24:28of the Northern Irish political system.
0:24:28 > 0:24:31And the Irish Department of Finance said Peter Robinson's speech
0:24:31 > 0:24:35was a total change of position.
0:24:36 > 0:24:40But Peter Robinson denied a U-turn.
0:24:40 > 0:24:44We needed something to stimulate the local market, that's why I think
0:24:44 > 0:24:49we moved from the position in 2009, fear of a fire sale to some
0:24:49 > 0:24:53responsible orderly disposal, being the way forward.
0:24:53 > 0:25:00But, significantly, Richard Bullick, the special adviser
0:25:00 > 0:25:02to Peter Robinson who dealt with the sale, indicated
0:25:02 > 0:25:05that the First Minister's thinking was now perfectly aligned
0:25:05 > 0:25:08with the views of Coulter and Cushnahan.
0:25:08 > 0:25:10Are you saying that Ian and Frank had an influence
0:25:10 > 0:25:13on the change of position?
0:25:13 > 0:25:15What I am saying is, I am saying that my understanding,
0:25:15 > 0:25:19again, I wouldn't be an expert by any means on the property
0:25:19 > 0:25:23industry or anything else, but, certainly the view that Sammy
0:25:23 > 0:25:27and Peter would have taken was the same as the view taken
0:25:27 > 0:25:31by Ian and Frank.
0:25:31 > 0:25:34After Peter Robinson's public intervention came a moment
0:25:34 > 0:25:36of pantomime.
0:25:36 > 0:25:41NAMA thought it was a good idea to tell their Northern Ireland
0:25:41 > 0:25:42advisors about Pimco.
0:25:42 > 0:25:46So at a meeting in Tughans law firm in Belfast, where Frank Cushnahan
0:25:46 > 0:25:51had an office, Nama chairman Frank Daly made what he thought
0:25:51 > 0:25:54was a big announcement - Pimco wanted to buy Nama's Northern Irish
0:25:54 > 0:25:55portfolio
0:25:55 > 0:25:57for over ?1 billion.
0:25:57 > 0:26:02So Ian Coulter and Frank Cushnahan brought Pimco's sale proposal
0:26:02 > 0:26:07to Peter Robinson and Sammy Wilson.
0:26:07 > 0:26:11They told Irish Finance Minister Michael Noonan,
0:26:11 > 0:26:16and then he told NAMA chairman Frank Daly.
0:26:16 > 0:26:20Now here was Frank Daly telling Frank Cushnahan - the man who'd
0:26:20 > 0:26:26started it all in the first place.
0:26:26 > 0:26:28Frank Daly told Cushnahan and the rest of the Committee
0:26:28 > 0:26:30that the proposed deal was extremely politically sensitive and absolute
0:26:30 > 0:26:37confidentiality was required.
0:26:37 > 0:26:41It had been five months since Frank Cushnahan
0:26:41 > 0:26:42first met PIMCO.
0:26:42 > 0:26:45And he hadn't said a word.
0:26:45 > 0:26:48We've spoken to someone else who was at that meeting.
0:26:48 > 0:26:52Brian Rowntree was the other Northern Ireland advisor to Nama
0:26:52 > 0:26:55and he says Frank Cushnahan did not disclose that he was
0:26:55 > 0:26:58involved with Pimco.
0:26:58 > 0:27:01Would you be surprised if one of the committee members at that
0:27:01 > 0:27:04meeting worked for Pimco on their bid for the Northern
0:27:04 > 0:27:09Ireland Nama portfolio?
0:27:09 > 0:27:12I would be shocked if that is the case, because no declaration
0:27:12 > 0:27:15was ever confirmed to the meeting.
0:27:15 > 0:27:17I would be surprised, absolutely surprised,
0:27:17 > 0:27:19that a person associated to the committee would be involved
0:27:19 > 0:27:26in a live bid process.
0:27:26 > 0:27:28Would you have been comfortable in that scenario?
0:27:28 > 0:27:30Personally, no.
0:27:30 > 0:27:31I...
0:27:31 > 0:27:34I believe that I would have been compromised in that situation.
0:27:34 > 0:27:35Why?
0:27:35 > 0:27:38Well, I believe I would have been seen as perceived first
0:27:38 > 0:27:41of all as having access to information to add benefit
0:27:41 > 0:27:44to that bid you really can't advise Nama and advise the
0:27:44 > 0:27:49third party as well.
0:27:49 > 0:27:49If
0:27:49 > 0:27:50If a
0:27:50 > 0:27:52Frank Daly arrives and announces that Pimco are If a interested
0:27:52 > 0:27:54in buying
0:27:54 > 0:27:58the portfolio, Frank Cushnahan says nothing.
0:27:58 > 0:28:00In that circumstance he would be absolutely obliged to step out
0:28:00 > 0:28:03of the room so that he's not present for the discussion,
0:28:03 > 0:28:06not seek to influence the discussion in any way,
0:28:06 > 0:28:09but prior to doing so disclose his interest.
0:28:09 > 0:28:11Frank Cushnahan recently told Nama he never had any conflict
0:28:11 > 0:28:17of interest at any time during his service on the advisory committee.
0:28:17 > 0:28:20The meeting was Frank Cushnahan's last as a Nama advisor.
0:28:20 > 0:28:29He resigned soon after, referring to "family priorities."
0:28:29 > 0:28:33Cushnahan was out of Nama, but by that stage the company
0:28:33 > 0:28:35he and Coulter brought forward was well founded
0:28:35 > 0:28:36with the politicians.
0:28:36 > 0:28:43The day after he made his speech attacking Nama, Peter Robinson asked
0:28:43 > 0:28:47to meet the Irish Finance Minister Michael Noonan.
0:28:47 > 0:28:51The meeting took place the same day that Michael Noonan came to Belfast
0:28:51 > 0:28:54to have lunch with Ian Coulter and the CBI.
0:28:54 > 0:28:58When I was in Stormont Castle this morning with Peter,
0:28:58 > 0:29:01well, we had conversations to agree a way forward.
0:29:01 > 0:29:04But that's all they were, conversations.
0:29:04 > 0:29:10Was Pimco discussed at that meeting?
0:29:10 > 0:29:13I do not know whether Pimco was discussed as such,
0:29:13 > 0:29:18the discussion may well have dealt with the issue of whether
0:29:18 > 0:29:20it was possible to do, for Nama to come to terms
0:29:20 > 0:29:26with a single bidder.
0:29:26 > 0:29:32Pimco's bid was discussed.
0:29:32 > 0:29:36This is the Executive's note of that meeting.
0:29:36 > 0:29:41It shows Peter Robinson backing Pimco's bid for a secret sale.
0:29:41 > 0:29:43The First Minister said Nama's policy of selling on the open market
0:29:43 > 0:29:50could devastate the Northern Ireland economy.
0:29:50 > 0:29:52He highlighted how it would be possible with one potential bidder,
0:29:52 > 0:29:58Pimco, to negotiate terms and conditions.
0:29:58 > 0:30:01This was a big request.
0:30:01 > 0:30:03The Irish government was committed to competitive sales on the open
0:30:03 > 0:30:06market because they believed that was the way to get the best
0:30:06 > 0:30:12price, the most money to pay back to the taxpayer.
0:30:12 > 0:30:16But here was Peter Robinson asking Dublin to consider a private sale
0:30:16 > 0:30:25to the firm that had approached DUP ministers.
0:30:25 > 0:30:29So, why was Peter Robinson so keen on Pimco's bid?
0:30:29 > 0:30:33Unknown to Dublin - or at that stage, to any other party
0:30:33 > 0:30:36in the Executive - the company had drafted an agreement
0:30:36 > 0:30:39with DUP ministers known as a memorandum of understanding,
0:30:39 > 0:30:49or MOU.
0:30:51 > 0:30:53In it, Pimco promised to use Northern Ireland suppliers
0:30:53 > 0:30:54and create some jobs
0:30:54 > 0:30:55in a local office.
0:30:55 > 0:30:58I do not think that anybody could say that an MOU would be
0:30:58 > 0:30:59a bad thing.
0:30:59 > 0:31:06If somebody is coming in with over ?1 billion worth of assets
0:31:06 > 0:31:09to dispose of, it is in the interest of the local community to ensure
0:31:09 > 0:31:12that those assets are disposed of in an orderly way.
0:31:12 > 0:31:16But that Memorandum of Understanding carried one
0:31:16 > 0:31:20other important stipulation.
0:31:20 > 0:31:24Pimco offered to forgive the personal guarantees that hung
0:31:24 > 0:31:27over developers - the threat that could take their very homes.
0:31:27 > 0:31:34So, where did the MOU come from?
0:31:34 > 0:31:42From the man who had been involved in the deal from the very start.
0:31:42 > 0:31:47One day last year, Frank Cushnahan walked out of his office in Tughans
0:31:47 > 0:31:50and into this hotel to have lunch with two men.
0:31:50 > 0:31:59Spotlight was also there.
0:32:00 > 0:32:06Cushnahan is on the far right.
0:32:06 > 0:32:10Next to him is John Miskelly, a Nama developer and the man seen
0:32:10 > 0:32:13here wearing a pink top.
0:32:13 > 0:32:18And on the left, wearing the suit, is David Grey, an accountant.
0:32:18 > 0:32:22Over the next two hours, out of his own mouth,
0:32:22 > 0:32:24Frank Cushnahan revealed how deeply he was involved in the sale
0:32:24 > 0:32:32of Nama's Northern Ireland portfolio .
0:32:32 > 0:32:34We recorded them during lunch in a noisy hotel lobby.
0:32:34 > 0:32:38Since then we've carefully analysed the recording of that meeting,
0:32:38 > 0:32:42using BBC sound engineers and an independent digital forensic
0:32:42 > 0:32:48expert to check exactly what was said.
0:32:48 > 0:32:58That's the key phrase there.
0:32:59 > 0:33:01We've also obtained another recording of the conversation
0:33:01 > 0:33:06from a third party.
0:33:06 > 0:33:10It clearly establishes that Frank Cushnahan and Ian Coulter
0:33:10 > 0:33:14appear to have played a central role in securing the Memorandum
0:33:14 > 0:33:24of Understanding between Pimco and Peter Robinson.
0:33:39 > 0:33:42So, here Cushnahan claims credit for the MOU, the Memorandum
0:33:42 > 0:33:52of Understanding that would forgive personal guarantees.
0:33:53 > 0:33:57We've been told by a reputable source that amounted
0:33:57 > 0:34:00to ?200 million, which would be potentially wiped off
0:34:00 > 0:34:02the Northern Ireland debt from the first day
0:34:02 > 0:34:06of Pimco's purchase.
0:34:06 > 0:34:10Though you would not think it, given some of the comments
0:34:10 > 0:34:12that have been made, the MOU was to cover every debtor
0:34:12 > 0:34:15and not a so-called privileged few.
0:34:15 > 0:34:18When Peter Robinson talked about clearing every debtor,
0:34:18 > 0:34:20he wasn't talking about the many people who lost their
0:34:20 > 0:34:24homes in the crash.
0:34:24 > 0:34:27He was talking about 55 debtors who had been the amongst the richest
0:34:27 > 0:34:34developers in Northern Ireland.
0:34:34 > 0:34:37I mean, certainly from the perspective of the underlying
0:34:37 > 0:34:42borrowers it's great news, but as far as Pimco and its,
0:34:42 > 0:34:49its own investors are concerned, it's not a good deal at all.
0:34:49 > 0:34:52I've never come across that and I think I would frankly be quite
0:34:52 > 0:34:56surprised if, if a company of Pimco's credibility and success,
0:34:56 > 0:34:58would have entered into such an agreement.
0:34:58 > 0:35:01We asked Pimco why they would be willing to forgive a substantial
0:35:01 > 0:35:03portion of the Northern Ireland debt.
0:35:03 > 0:35:11They did not respond.
0:35:11 > 0:35:17Even though one of Nama's advisors had delivered the memorandum
0:35:17 > 0:35:19of understanding, Nama was astonished when they saw it -
0:35:19 > 0:35:22especially because the very first item was the forgiveness
0:35:22 > 0:35:28of personal guarantees.
0:35:28 > 0:35:35When we looked at the MOU, or whatever it was, we would never
0:35:35 > 0:35:40ever have countenanced this as a condition of sale.
0:35:40 > 0:35:43It would be a debtors' charter.
0:35:43 > 0:35:47Number one would be a debtors' charter.
0:35:47 > 0:35:52Pimco's purchase might have been good for Northern Ireland.
0:35:52 > 0:35:55But the Memorandum of Understanding meant it would have been a great
0:35:55 > 0:35:59deal for developers - it would erase their personal
0:35:59 > 0:36:02guarantees and give them the opportunity to regain control
0:36:02 > 0:36:11of their properties with some of the original debt erased.
0:36:12 > 0:36:15So, it should come as no surprise that Frank Cushnahan wasn't
0:36:15 > 0:36:17just working for Nama and Pimco, he was also working
0:36:17 > 0:36:26for the developers who would get rescued by the deal.
0:36:26 > 0:36:30Both Peter Robinson and his special adviser told
0:36:30 > 0:36:35Stormont's Finance Committee that they thought Frank Cushnahan
0:36:35 > 0:36:38had become involved in the deal because he had clients caught
0:36:38 > 0:36:40up in Nama.
0:36:40 > 0:36:43Who were Frank's clients?
0:36:43 > 0:36:46I am not aware of specific names, but Frank is a well-known person
0:36:46 > 0:36:47in that world.
0:36:47 > 0:36:54Clients in what respect?
0:36:54 > 0:36:57I understand that he works with people who are in the - maybe
0:36:57 > 0:37:04it is not an industry - development community.
0:37:04 > 0:37:07He had clients who were caught up in the Nama...
0:37:07 > 0:37:11I assume that that was the case.
0:37:11 > 0:37:17So, Frank Cushnahan wasn't just playing for two sides of this deal,
0:37:17 > 0:37:20he was playing three - the potential buyer,
0:37:20 > 0:37:29the seller and the developers who would benefit from the sale.
0:37:30 > 0:37:32He was a member of the Northern Ireland Advisory
0:37:32 > 0:37:41Board for Nama.
0:37:41 > 0:37:47He was meeting potential buyers, for the project.
0:37:47 > 0:37:50He was also acted on behalf of clients who had loans transferred
0:37:50 > 0:37:52into Nama, Mr Cushnahan seems to have an extraordinary level
0:37:52 > 0:37:54of conflicts of interest, for one individual.
0:37:54 > 0:37:56We've been told by several sources that Frank Cushnahan held
0:37:56 > 0:37:59what were known as "clinics" for developers caught up in Nama.
0:37:59 > 0:38:01Clinics in which he would tell developers how to survive
0:38:01 > 0:38:02the agency.
0:38:02 > 0:38:05One participant told us the meeting was in Tughans and the coffee
0:38:05 > 0:38:15was served by Tughans.
0:38:19 > 0:38:21Pimco offered Nama over a billion pounds for the Northern Ireland
0:38:21 > 0:38:22portfolio
0:38:22 > 0:38:23in December 2013.
0:38:23 > 0:38:26Then Nama decided to open up the sales process beyond Pimco
0:38:26 > 0:38:28But Pimco still looked like the favourite.
0:38:28 > 0:38:31However American companies have strict legal requirements
0:38:31 > 0:38:36about reporting who they pay in any transaction like this.
0:38:36 > 0:38:39As American funds, they are caught under the Foreign Corrupt Practices
0:38:39 > 0:38:41Act.
0:38:41 > 0:38:45They have to do certain internal checks and sign off on that.
0:38:45 > 0:38:47They obviously twigged that Mr Cushnahan was part
0:38:47 > 0:38:50of the process.
0:38:50 > 0:38:54Three weeks before the sale was due to close, Pimco phoned Nama
0:38:54 > 0:38:58with news about Frank Cushnahan.
0:38:58 > 0:39:02Pimco was going to pay him.
0:39:02 > 0:39:06The next thing I heard was Pimco tell us he was to get a fee.
0:39:06 > 0:39:09On what date did that occur and how long was it after his resignation?
0:39:09 > 0:39:11On 10 March.
0:39:11 > 0:39:14For how long had he been working for Pimco?
0:39:14 > 0:39:16What was his acquisition fee?
0:39:16 > 0:39:21We do not know that either.
0:39:21 > 0:39:26A subsequent piece of information which came to us that indicated
0:39:26 > 0:39:31that there was a fee of ?15 million which was to be split three ways
0:39:31 > 0:39:34between Brown Rudnick, Tughans, the managing partner of Tughans
0:39:34 > 0:39:36and Mr Frank Cushnahan.
0:39:36 > 0:39:44Wow.
0:39:44 > 0:39:47I remember when I heard about it, in the, in the PAC,
0:39:47 > 0:39:49when Frank Daly said, "yeah, there was ?5 million
0:39:49 > 0:39:52going to him, and ?15 million" The figures are just amazing, er,
0:39:52 > 0:39:59what did he do, to get ?5 million?
0:39:59 > 0:40:03Nama thought it would be unacceptable for their former
0:40:03 > 0:40:05advisor to be paid by the company buying the Northern
0:40:05 > 0:40:14Ireland portfolio.
0:40:14 > 0:40:16The Nama board held an emergency meeting about Pimco's proposed
0:40:16 > 0:40:20payment to Frank Cushnahan.
0:40:20 > 0:40:24Pimco was out of the deal by the end of the day - but the Board decided
0:40:24 > 0:40:28the sale would continue.
0:40:28 > 0:40:32Politicians have said this was the crucial moment in the sales
0:40:32 > 0:40:35process - instead of halting the sale and getting to the bottom
0:40:35 > 0:40:37of Frank Cushnahan's role, Nama decided to sell
0:40:37 > 0:40:47to someone else.
0:40:47 > 0:40:51Well, I think it's negligent on the part of Nama, I mean,
0:40:51 > 0:40:55Nama really ought to have you know at least halted the proceedings,
0:40:55 > 0:41:00while they, they investigated the nature of the sweetener
0:41:00 > 0:41:04that was supposed to be paid to Frank Cushnahan.
0:41:04 > 0:41:12Erm, rather than just kind of racing in to the next prospective buyer
0:41:12 > 0:41:14of the portfolio.
0:41:14 > 0:41:17This is Nama's record of that meeting - the meeting
0:41:17 > 0:41:18in which they learned about the proposed payment
0:41:18 > 0:41:24to Frank Cushnahan and decided to proceed with the sale anyway.
0:41:24 > 0:41:31It has been entirely redacted.
0:41:31 > 0:41:33So, these are the minutes of the Nama board where
0:41:33 > 0:41:35they actually discussed Pimco's concerns around er, Frank Cushnahan
0:41:35 > 0:41:40and the potential payment of ?5 million to him.
0:41:40 > 0:41:44It's completely redacted.
0:41:44 > 0:41:46I presume because of commercial sensitivity.
0:41:46 > 0:41:51So we have to take the word of Nama.
0:41:51 > 0:41:54And for a deal that was, the biggest transaction
0:41:54 > 0:42:00in the history of Nama, in the history of Northern Ireland
0:42:00 > 0:42:07and that this is the only assurance that we're given,
0:42:07 > 0:42:10a page of redacted information, then, you know, it does raise big
0:42:10 > 0:42:12questions over the integrity of the entire deal.
0:42:12 > 0:42:15Nama admits the proposed payment to Frank Cushnahan might look bad,
0:42:15 > 0:42:20but the agency and Frank Cushnahan both say the sales process was not
0:42:20 > 0:42:23tainted because Cushnahan did not have access
0:42:23 > 0:42:28to sensitive information.
0:42:28 > 0:42:34It is mind boggling that they would go and ask a guy to act for them
0:42:34 > 0:42:37and pay him an acquisition fee of ?5 million if he was just
0:42:37 > 0:42:39an ordinary Joe Soap off the street who did not know anything
0:42:39 > 0:42:42about the property portfolio.
0:42:42 > 0:42:49He had an office.
0:42:49 > 0:42:52I do not disagree with the theory but all I can say is
0:42:52 > 0:42:53that
0:42:53 > 0:42:56from his work with Nama on the Northern Ireland advisory
0:42:56 > 0:42:58committee, he did not gain any inside knowledge of the portfolio
0:42:58 > 0:43:01That's the most unbelievable part of the Nama narrative.
0:43:01 > 0:43:04The idea that you have a board, giving you advice on property,
0:43:04 > 0:43:05who isn't told anything about the portfolio,
0:43:05 > 0:43:08doesn't wash, absolutely doesn't wash at all.
0:43:08 > 0:43:11Are you surprised that Nama actually has put it out there?
0:43:11 > 0:43:16Well, it's the only possible defence they can put up.
0:43:16 > 0:43:19Brian Rowntree also sat on the Committee and he says
0:43:19 > 0:43:23they did see sensitive information.
0:43:23 > 0:43:31But it would be fair to say that the information that
0:43:31 > 0:43:33I witnessed and I heard in Nama offered commercial opportunity.
0:43:33 > 0:43:36How valuable would that information have been to a bidder
0:43:36 > 0:43:41for the Northern Ireland Nama portfolio?
0:43:41 > 0:43:44What I would say was that information that we discussed
0:43:44 > 0:43:47of a commercially sensitive nature in my view, would have added some
0:43:47 > 0:43:55value to their application.
0:43:55 > 0:44:01Because it would have given them some steer on the strategic
0:44:01 > 0:44:03capacity to work out that overall portfolio.
0:44:03 > 0:44:04With Pimco out, another American financial giant,
0:44:04 > 0:44:13Cerberus, turned up at Stormont.
0:44:13 > 0:44:15Their chairman, former US vice president Dan Quayle,
0:44:15 > 0:44:20visited Peter Robinson.
0:44:20 > 0:44:23I am less surprised that Cerberus was able to have the meeting
0:44:23 > 0:44:25with Peter Robinson as quickly as, as that because they,
0:44:25 > 0:44:28their whole kind of stock in trade is their political connections,
0:44:28 > 0:44:33that's, that's how they operate.
0:44:33 > 0:44:36So it would have been par to the course that they went
0:44:36 > 0:44:38straight to the top of the Northern Ireland Executive
0:44:38 > 0:44:39when they became involved?
0:44:39 > 0:44:41I think so.
0:44:41 > 0:44:43That's their modus operandi.
0:44:43 > 0:44:45Ian Coulter was also at the Stormont meeting.
0:44:45 > 0:44:47Cerberus hired him and Pimco's other law firm, Brown Rudnick,
0:44:47 > 0:44:51immediately after Pimco withdrew.
0:44:51 > 0:44:55But Frank Cushnahan - who had turned out to be so toxic for the Pimco
0:44:55 > 0:44:58deal - was apparently out.
0:44:58 > 0:45:00Once again, Nama didn't know that potential purchasers were talking
0:45:00 > 0:45:06to the DUP.
0:45:06 > 0:45:09Cerberus then go to a meeting at Stormont, with the First
0:45:09 > 0:45:11Minister, once again, Nama says they didn't know
0:45:11 > 0:45:17anything about that either.
0:45:17 > 0:45:18They should, of course, of course they should
0:45:18 > 0:45:21have been on high alert, and I don't see any evidence
0:45:21 > 0:45:24that they made any efforts to find out what was happening
0:45:24 > 0:45:25in the background.
0:45:25 > 0:45:27Three days after Cerberus came to Stormont, Peter Robinson
0:45:27 > 0:45:29was on the phone to the Irish Finance Minister,
0:45:29 > 0:45:37Michael Noonan.
0:45:37 > 0:45:40What was that call about and why was it directed to your mobile
0:45:40 > 0:45:42phone as opposed to going through the offices
0:45:42 > 0:45:46of the First Minister - if you can recall?
0:45:46 > 0:45:55I really cannot recall.
0:45:55 > 0:45:57You say that that was after the meeting with Cerberus.
0:45:57 > 0:46:00It could well have been to ask whether he was aware
0:46:00 > 0:46:01of its interest.
0:46:01 > 0:46:02I just cannot recall.
0:46:02 > 0:46:03I have no recollection of it.
0:46:03 > 0:46:05It could have been to ask for a meeting.
0:46:05 > 0:46:07I am not sure whether any meeting took place.
0:46:07 > 0:46:10Indeed, it could have been about an Ireland rugby match.
0:46:10 > 0:46:11I just do not know.
0:46:11 > 0:46:14I would need to check.
0:46:14 > 0:46:17Dublin's Department of Finance told us the phone call was about
0:46:17 > 0:46:24the Northern Ireland sale, but no record of it was kept.
0:46:24 > 0:46:26We asked Peter Robinson if he was promoting Cerberus.
0:46:26 > 0:46:32He told us Ministers never promoted any particular company.
0:46:32 > 0:46:38He said, "Which firm succeeded was unimportant to us."
0:46:38 > 0:46:41Two weeks later, Cerberus made their bid.
0:46:41 > 0:46:43The reserve price was ?1.3 billion.
0:46:43 > 0:46:51Cerberus bid ?100,000 more.
0:46:51 > 0:46:53I tell you what, it's being sold tonight.
0:46:53 > 0:46:56They were the only company willing to meet Nama's asking price.
0:46:56 > 0:46:57The gavel's up.
0:46:57 > 0:46:58I'm selling once.
0:46:58 > 0:46:59Twice.
0:46:59 > 0:47:01Third.
0:47:01 > 0:47:04It turned out to be the Irish taxpayer's biggest single loss
0:47:04 > 0:47:12on a Nama loan sale.
0:47:12 > 0:47:14Cerberus accepted one important condition from Nama.
0:47:14 > 0:47:16They said they wouldn't pay any current or former Nama,
0:47:16 > 0:47:25which would include Frank Cushnahan.
0:47:25 > 0:47:27But Frank Cushnahan says he was still secretly involved
0:47:27 > 0:47:28in the deal.
0:47:28 > 0:47:38He says he worked with Ian Coulter to land Cerberus.
0:47:42 > 0:47:49You know the, when I was working on that Cerberus thing to get that
0:47:55 > 0:47:57Cushnahan says his role in the work was deliberately hidden
0:47:57 > 0:48:03because of Nama's objections.
0:48:35 > 0:48:37While Cerberus celebrated their purchase with Peter Robinson
0:48:37 > 0:48:39and Martin McGuinness, the fund paid ?15 million
0:48:39 > 0:48:49to Brown Rudnick and ?7.5 million of that was paid on to Tughans.
0:48:49 > 0:48:53And Ian Coulter moved ?6 million to an Isle of Man bank account,
0:48:53 > 0:48:57out of the firm's reach.
0:48:57 > 0:49:00Tughans won't talk to us, but it seems like the partners'
0:49:00 > 0:49:04dispute with Ian Coulter came from the suggestion that the fee
0:49:04 > 0:49:07would be shared with Frank Cushnahan.
0:49:07 > 0:49:09Solicitors aren't allowed to share legal fees with someone who isn't
0:49:09 > 0:49:16another lawyer, as the Law Society told MLAs.
0:49:16 > 0:49:17Hypothetically, a solicitor cannot share fees with
0:49:17 > 0:49:19an unqualified person.
0:49:19 > 0:49:22That is a breach of the Order and constitutes a crime.
0:49:22 > 0:49:30That is absolute.
0:49:30 > 0:49:32So was the money transferred to the Isle of Man intended
0:49:32 > 0:49:36for Frank Cushnahan?
0:49:36 > 0:49:44We know it was - because Frank Cushnahan said so.
0:49:44 > 0:49:49In the meeting, Frank Cushnahan tells David Gray that Ian Coulter
0:49:49 > 0:49:52moved the money into a temporary holding account, known as an escrow
0:49:52 > 0:49:57account, in order to secure it for Cushnahan's fixer's fee.
0:49:57 > 0:49:59He actually moved six million of it into an escrow account.
0:50:15 > 0:50:17Last year Frank Cushnahan told Spotlight
0:50:17 > 0:50:18he categorically denied seeking money from Pimco,
0:50:18 > 0:50:19Cerberus, Tughans or Ian Coulter.
0:50:19 > 0:50:21But here, he says the opposite.
0:50:21 > 0:50:27Coulter moved ?6 million in order to pay him for the deal.
0:50:27 > 0:50:30"He did that because he was then able to say, "there's this,
0:50:30 > 0:50:35Cushnahan's done all this work, therefore, he's entitled
0:50:35 > 0:50:37to his fee." Frank Cushnahan was the thread running
0:50:37 > 0:50:39through the entire sales process.
0:50:39 > 0:50:42He was one of the architects of the initial offer.
0:50:42 > 0:50:46He was an advisor to the sellers.
0:50:46 > 0:50:48He was also an advisor to the developers who would benefit
0:50:48 > 0:50:49from the deal.
0:50:49 > 0:50:52And at the end, despite specific assurances that he would not be
0:50:52 > 0:50:55paid, he was there claiming he had worked on the final deal and saying
0:50:55 > 0:51:01he deserved to be paid.
0:51:04 > 0:51:09Our recording also revealed one curious episode involving a senior
0:51:09 > 0:51:12Nama executive.
0:51:12 > 0:51:16During Frank Cushnahan's lunch, he brings up the name Ronnie,
0:51:16 > 0:51:19which we understand to be Ronnie Hanna,
0:51:19 > 0:51:22a former bank official from Northern Ireland who became
0:51:22 > 0:51:26Nama's head of asset recovery.
0:51:26 > 0:51:30Cushnahan suggests Ronnie Hanna saved developers from Nama
0:51:30 > 0:51:37going under - saying he prevented people's lights going out.
0:51:40 > 0:51:43I mean, people's lights would have been out except for him.
0:51:43 > 0:51:44I mean that sincerely.
0:51:44 > 0:51:47John Miskelly, one of the developers caught up in Nama, then makes
0:51:47 > 0:51:50a startling revelation.
0:51:50 > 0:51:52He says he was told to contact Frank Cushnahan
0:51:52 > 0:51:57by the First Minister's son, Gareth Robinson, who now runs
0:51:57 > 0:52:06a PR company.
0:52:18 > 0:52:22Ronnie Hanna told us it would be "wholly inappropriate" for him
0:52:22 > 0:52:25to comment because there is a criminal investigation ongoing.
0:52:25 > 0:52:28He left Nama six months after the sale and now runs
0:52:28 > 0:52:32a consultancy outside Belfast.
0:52:32 > 0:52:37Gareth Robinson did not respond to questions we put to him.
0:52:37 > 0:52:41Frank Cushnahan did write to us, but did not address the alleged
0:52:41 > 0:52:50phone call to Ronnie Hanna.
0:52:50 > 0:52:54Detectives from the National Crime Agency are investigating
0:52:54 > 0:52:56the Nama sale.
0:52:56 > 0:52:59As long as that investigation continues, many of the key people
0:52:59 > 0:53:05in this programme say they cannot answer our questions.
0:53:05 > 0:53:08Sammy Wilson told us that the police are "more capable of dealing
0:53:08 > 0:53:14with this issue than sensation seeking biased BBC reporters are."
0:53:14 > 0:53:18He said we were seeking "to titillate the public
0:53:18 > 0:53:22"with the kind of half-baked and biased reporting which has been
0:53:22 > 0:53:27"the mark of Spotlight in the past." Peter Robinson told us he gave
0:53:27 > 0:53:30a detailed statement to Stormont's Finance Committee
0:53:30 > 0:53:34and answered all their questions.
0:53:34 > 0:53:39He also he wanted to meet the NCA to help them in any way he could,
0:53:39 > 0:53:41saying such matters should be left to professional investigators rather
0:53:41 > 0:53:46than a TV programme.
0:53:46 > 0:53:50Frank Cushnahan's lawyer told us it would be inappropriate for him
0:53:50 > 0:53:55to comment while the NCA investigation is ongoing.
0:53:55 > 0:54:00Ian Coulter was interviewed by the NCA last November.
0:54:00 > 0:54:03He no longer practices law and now works as a director for one
0:54:03 > 0:54:09of Northern Ireland's largest developers.
0:54:09 > 0:54:12He has said publicly that he transferred the money
0:54:12 > 0:54:15to the Isle of Man for complex, commercially and legally sensitive
0:54:15 > 0:54:20reasons.
0:54:20 > 0:54:25And then there's this man - the biggest revelation of all.
0:54:25 > 0:54:27John Miskelly, the County Down developer who joined
0:54:27 > 0:54:37Frank Cushnahan for lunch.
0:54:40 > 0:54:47Late yesterday John Miskelly told us that our account of his business
0:54:47 > 0:54:50meeting with Frank Cushnahan and David Gray is "an accurate
0:54:50 > 0:54:54and truthful" portrayal of everything that was said
0:54:54 > 0:54:58that day.
0:54:58 > 0:55:00Including his own recollection of how Gareth Robinson,
0:55:00 > 0:55:03Frank Cushnahan and Ronnie Hanna protected him from having his
0:55:03 > 0:55:06lights put out by Nama.
0:55:06 > 0:55:09John Miskelly has also given Spotlight a statement
0:55:09 > 0:55:13in which he says he has been gathering his own detailed
0:55:13 > 0:55:15and extensive evidence over several years which he says implicates other
0:55:15 > 0:55:20individuals in financial misconduct.
0:55:20 > 0:55:22We understand much of the evidence concerns the sale of
0:55:22 > 0:55:32the Northern Ireland Nama portfolio.
0:55:40 > 0:55:49John Miskelly told us...
0:55:49 > 0:55:51We can also reveal that John Miskelly's
0:55:51 > 0:55:53evidence in relation to the Nama Northern Ireland sale
0:55:53 > 0:55:55has just been handed over to the Securities
0:55:55 > 0:56:01and Exchange Commission, a powerful American financial watch dog.
0:56:01 > 0:56:11John Miskelly told us...
0:56:18 > 0:56:21He also said...
0:56:27 > 0:56:28We understand Mr Miskelly has also
0:56:28 > 0:56:30contacted the National Crime Agency in Belfast.
0:56:30 > 0:56:32Northern Ireland's biggest ever property sale is about to turn
0:56:32 > 0:56:42into its biggest financial and political scandal.
0:56:56 > 0:56:59I'm Vincent Kearney, I'm home affairs correspondent
0:56:59 > 0:57:00for BBC News NI.
0:57:00 > 0:57:03Home affairs covers a huge range of subjects.