1:46:32 > 1:46:35PLAYERS SHOUT
1:46:35 > 1:46:37It's one of the most successful
1:46:37 > 1:46:40amateur sporting organisations in the world.
1:46:40 > 1:46:44Every night of the week, young people give their all
1:46:44 > 1:46:46in GAA clubs like this.
1:46:49 > 1:46:54Here in West Belfast, there's only one thing missing -
1:46:54 > 1:46:56a modern stadium.
1:46:56 > 1:46:59And this - the dream.
1:46:59 > 1:47:01This video, produced by the GAA,
1:47:01 > 1:47:04showed the ambitious vision for Casement Park,
1:47:04 > 1:47:07to make it the biggest stadium in Northern Ireland.
1:47:09 > 1:47:13In 2013, they got planning permission for 38,000 people.
1:47:13 > 1:47:16The new ground was meant to be up and running by now.
1:47:16 > 1:47:20It was earmarked for some of the biggest games in the GAA calendar.
1:47:20 > 1:47:24It was also to be used for big conferences and pop concerts.
1:47:28 > 1:47:32But the reality couldn't be more different.
1:47:34 > 1:47:38Casement Park has now been derelict for three years.
1:47:40 > 1:47:41The development stalled because
1:47:41 > 1:47:44some residents were so fiercely opposed to the plan,
1:47:44 > 1:47:47they raised £60,000 to go to court.
1:47:47 > 1:47:51They won a judicial review and got the planning application thrown out.
1:47:51 > 1:47:55Despite that setback, the GAA are still determined
1:47:55 > 1:47:59to build a big stadium on this site.
1:47:59 > 1:48:02Today, the GAA launched the first in a series of events
1:48:02 > 1:48:06intended to hear people's views on a proposed new stadium,
1:48:06 > 1:48:09though the full details are not yet known.
1:48:09 > 1:48:13It's getting ready to put in a new application in the autumn.
1:48:17 > 1:48:21You can see the old stadium when you arrive into Belfast on the M1.
1:48:25 > 1:48:26It's here at the junction
1:48:26 > 1:48:28which leads you into the west of the city.
1:48:30 > 1:48:33You know you're at Casement Park when you see those big floodlights.
1:48:38 > 1:48:42This area was countryside back in 1953
1:48:42 > 1:48:45when the locals raised the money for the original stadium.
1:48:45 > 1:48:49The stands were built from old American Air Force girders.
1:48:51 > 1:48:56For many years, the GAA has wanted a provincial stadium for Ulster.
1:49:02 > 1:49:06The model would be Croke Park, the jewel in the crown.
1:49:13 > 1:49:16To play here is really the dream of every GAA player,
1:49:16 > 1:49:19and when you come here, you can see why.
1:49:19 > 1:49:21It really is a breath-taking stadium.
1:49:21 > 1:49:23It holds about 82,000 people.
1:49:23 > 1:49:26What the GAA wants is a smaller version of this,
1:49:26 > 1:49:29right in the heart of West Belfast.
1:49:29 > 1:49:33The people of West Belfast have been looking forward to the redevelopment
1:49:33 > 1:49:34of Casement Park for some time.
1:49:34 > 1:49:37And I think Casement will be a significant sports stadium
1:49:37 > 1:49:40but it'll also be a community facility, a facility where people
1:49:40 > 1:49:43can turn up, they can meet up, activities will happen there.
1:49:43 > 1:49:46It'll be a stadium that'll be used 365 days of the year at a low level.
1:49:49 > 1:49:53Sinn Fein backed the prestige project for West Belfast.
1:49:53 > 1:49:56The party is keen to use public money
1:49:56 > 1:49:59to regenerate the constituency,
1:49:59 > 1:50:04where, until recently, it held five of the six Assembly seats.
1:50:04 > 1:50:07And when cash became available for new sports grounds,
1:50:07 > 1:50:11Sinn Fein made sure West Belfast was at the front of the queue.
1:50:15 > 1:50:18The Northern Ireland Executive pledged public money to build
1:50:18 > 1:50:22three sports grounds at Ravenhill, Windsor and Casement Park.
1:50:23 > 1:50:26Ravenhill got £15 million.
1:50:26 > 1:50:30Windsor got £25 million.
1:50:30 > 1:50:35By far the biggest sum was pledged to Casement - £62 million.
1:50:37 > 1:50:42On top of that, the GAA agreed to put in £15 million of its own.
1:50:44 > 1:50:47Why does the stadium have to be in West Belfast?
1:50:47 > 1:50:52In March 2011, the Executive agreed three stadia for Belfast.
1:50:52 > 1:50:57So, to be frank, that's what the Executive agreed in March 2011.
1:50:57 > 1:50:59So the money wouldn't be available
1:50:59 > 1:51:01if the GAA wanted to go somewhere else?
1:51:01 > 1:51:03No, it wouldn't be available.
1:51:03 > 1:51:05That's not my understanding of it at all.
1:51:09 > 1:51:12Bridghidin Heenan lives beside Casement Park and,
1:51:12 > 1:51:15like many other people in West Belfast,
1:51:15 > 1:51:18couldn't be more excited that a spectacular new stadium
1:51:18 > 1:51:20is coming to her area.
1:51:22 > 1:51:25You don't take your provincial stadium and put it in...
1:51:27 > 1:51:29..you know...
1:51:29 > 1:51:32somewhere... I don't want to insult any Ballygawley roundabout.
1:51:32 > 1:51:35But, you know, you put it in your premier location.
1:51:35 > 1:51:41We have come through such a long time of hard...
1:51:41 > 1:51:43you know, hard times and political unrest
1:51:43 > 1:51:46and all the stuff that went through it. Let's get happy stories.
1:51:48 > 1:51:51But that location is proving a major problem.
1:51:51 > 1:51:53That and the scale.
1:51:58 > 1:52:03At its highest point, the stadium was due to be 36 metres,
1:52:03 > 1:52:06a big problem for some people living nearby.
1:52:18 > 1:52:20One of the residents' objections to this proposal
1:52:20 > 1:52:24was its sheer size. They worried that it would dwarf their houses.
1:52:24 > 1:52:25And when you come up in this hoist,
1:52:25 > 1:52:28you really do get a sense of the scale of what was planned.
1:52:28 > 1:52:32The GAA wanted a stadium which would tower over these streets.
1:52:40 > 1:52:43I know very few people in this area who don't want to see it,
1:52:43 > 1:52:46but it's the sheer scale and size of the thing.
1:52:50 > 1:52:53We're definitely not against it being re-developed.
1:52:53 > 1:52:55It's just the size and capacity of it.
1:52:59 > 1:53:03Some of those who opposed the plan include life-long GAA supporters.
1:53:05 > 1:53:10Pat McManus has been involved with hurling for 73 years.
1:53:10 > 1:53:14There's no game in the world to compare with hurling.
1:53:14 > 1:53:15It's an outstanding game.
1:53:15 > 1:53:18- Did you play in Croke Park? - I did play in Croke Park, yes.
1:53:18 > 1:53:22- What was that like? - Very special. Very special.
1:53:22 > 1:53:26That's one of the reasons I would like this place here fixed up
1:53:26 > 1:53:30and games for young people in it.
1:53:30 > 1:53:34If they can get out there, it's something special.
1:53:34 > 1:53:37I would not want concerts in it...
1:53:39 > 1:53:44- How worried are you about that? - ..just for the sake of making money.
1:53:44 > 1:53:48The residents' concerns were about scale and disruption.
1:53:48 > 1:53:52For others, safety was the big issue.
1:53:58 > 1:54:03Paul Scott is one of Northern Ireland's foremost safety experts.
1:54:03 > 1:54:05From the Tall Ships to the Belfast marathon,
1:54:05 > 1:54:10when people are enjoying themselves, his job has been to keep them safe.
1:54:10 > 1:54:12Sometimes health and safety people
1:54:12 > 1:54:15are characterised as being there to spoil people's fun.
1:54:15 > 1:54:19The safest event is an event which we don't have any spectators at.
1:54:19 > 1:54:22So we don't want that to happen. We want the people to come,
1:54:22 > 1:54:26we want them to be safe, and we want them to have an enjoyable time.
1:54:26 > 1:54:28Paul Scott was the civil servant
1:54:28 > 1:54:31in charge of making sure the new stadium was safe.
1:54:31 > 1:54:32It was the responsibility
1:54:32 > 1:54:35of a body called the Safety Technical Group,
1:54:35 > 1:54:36which he chaired.
1:54:36 > 1:54:40He'd already overseen safety at Ravenhill and Windsor.
1:54:40 > 1:54:44But from the very start, he'd had concerns about Casement.
1:54:44 > 1:54:47With the GAA pressing ahead with the project,
1:54:47 > 1:54:49he decided to go public.
1:54:49 > 1:54:53About a year ago, Paul Scott dropped a bombshell.
1:54:56 > 1:54:59A Sports Northern Ireland official who's an expert in stadium safety
1:54:59 > 1:55:03told MLAs that he had been bullied and put under pressure
1:55:03 > 1:55:06to change his opinion about emergency exiting
1:55:06 > 1:55:09at the newly designed GAA ground.
1:55:09 > 1:55:13From that moment on, safety would become the overriding issue.
1:55:19 > 1:55:23I'm just turning left here onto the Andersonstown Road.
1:55:23 > 1:55:28This really must be one of the busiest main roads in Belfast.
1:55:29 > 1:55:32Most of the time when you come up here,
1:55:32 > 1:55:34the traffic is really bumper to bumper.
1:55:34 > 1:55:36It's a very, very busy road.
1:55:42 > 1:55:48The Casement site is right in the middle of a horseshoe of houses.
1:55:48 > 1:55:52The main exits are here at the Andersonstown Road.
1:55:52 > 1:55:54The majority of people in the stadium,
1:55:54 > 1:55:56around 72%,
1:55:56 > 1:56:03would normally leave that way, and the other 28% through side exits.
1:56:03 > 1:56:08But if the Andersonstown Road were closed, say because of an accident,
1:56:08 > 1:56:12thousands of spectators would have to leave through the side exits.
1:56:12 > 1:56:16Paul Scott's concern was the 38,000 that would have been seated
1:56:16 > 1:56:19in the original plan couldn't get to safety quickly enough.
1:56:21 > 1:56:27Paul Scott and other safety experts say that in an emergency situation,
1:56:27 > 1:56:30people need to be away from danger in eight minutes.
1:56:30 > 1:56:33After that, panic sets in.
1:56:34 > 1:56:39It has got to be remembered that of all...most of the disasters
1:56:39 > 1:56:44at sporting venues, entertainment venues, and like venues,
1:56:44 > 1:56:48it is the panic and the crushing that kills the people.
1:56:48 > 1:56:49It's not the primary incident.
1:56:49 > 1:56:53It's not the fire, it's not the disorder, it is the crushing.
1:56:55 > 1:57:00And why is it particularly likely to happen at Casement Park?
1:57:00 > 1:57:03Because we do not have a suitable number of exits
1:57:03 > 1:57:06at appropriate locations around the venue.
1:57:06 > 1:57:10We are trying to get 38,000 people outside exits
1:57:10 > 1:57:13which are suitable for about 15,000.
1:57:13 > 1:57:15This is Paul Scott's first interview
1:57:15 > 1:57:19since he publicly identified his safety concerns.
1:57:19 > 1:57:22I believe in the public interest and in public safety.
1:57:22 > 1:57:26It is important that these issues are properly aired.
1:57:26 > 1:57:30I have a duty to raise those issues.
1:57:31 > 1:57:35His analysis of the problem has been backed by the PSNI,
1:57:35 > 1:57:38ambulance service and the fire service.
1:57:38 > 1:57:40..this role since February 2014.
1:57:40 > 1:57:43To get a sense of the potential capacity for Casement,
1:57:43 > 1:57:47this is what 38,000 people looks like,
1:57:47 > 1:57:49here at last month's London Marathon.
1:57:51 > 1:57:56In the worst-case scenario, with the Andersonstown Road closed,
1:57:56 > 1:58:00the only place for people to go once they're out of the stadium is here,
1:58:00 > 1:58:02the streets around Casement.
1:58:05 > 1:58:0838,000 people proposed in the original plan
1:58:08 > 1:58:10would flood onto these streets...
1:58:15 > 1:58:19..with just one way out, through this narrow path.
1:58:24 > 1:58:26SIREN BLARES
1:58:26 > 1:58:28And that would lead them onto this busy roundabout
1:58:28 > 1:58:31where the M1 joins West Belfast.
1:58:35 > 1:58:39Professor Phil Scraton has spent years campaigning for the families
1:58:39 > 1:58:44of those killed at Hillsborough, Britain's worst stadium disaster.
1:58:44 > 1:58:47He, too, has concerns about safety at Casement.
1:58:47 > 1:58:52He is worried about people coming in as well as people going out.
1:58:52 > 1:58:56It's very difficult to use Hillsborough as the foundation
1:58:56 > 1:59:00for a critique of the new development here.
1:59:00 > 1:59:02However, having said that,
1:59:02 > 1:59:05there is one similarity that really does concern me
1:59:05 > 1:59:08and that is the build-up outside Hillsborough,
1:59:08 > 1:59:11at the Leppings Lane end outside the ground,
1:59:11 > 1:59:15that build-up came from an arterial road
1:59:15 > 1:59:19precisely because it had to service one end of the stadium
1:59:19 > 1:59:23and one half of the stadium and another grandstand,
1:59:23 > 1:59:27so nearly half of the full capacity
1:59:27 > 1:59:28were going in through one end.
1:59:28 > 1:59:33My concern with Casement Park is that people coming in,
1:59:33 > 1:59:37off the Andytown Road into that end of the stadium,
1:59:37 > 1:59:42so many people all at once, it puts a tremendous concentration.
1:59:42 > 1:59:46- Is it dangerous? - Well, to ask the question about
1:59:46 > 1:59:49whether something is dangerous is a real problem for me,
1:59:49 > 1:59:52because it writes a headline for the newspapers
1:59:52 > 1:59:54and I don't want to be quoted
1:59:54 > 1:59:59by anybody as saying this is implicitly a dangerous situation.
1:59:59 > 2:00:01This is not a stadium that would be built
2:00:01 > 2:00:03if we were moving from scratch.
2:00:03 > 2:00:06And, therefore, there are danger points
2:00:06 > 2:00:09that are absolutely clear for anybody to see.
2:00:10 > 2:00:14Paul Scott says he was reporting his concerns about safety
2:00:14 > 2:00:17to the Department of Culture, Arts & Leisure, or DCAL.
2:00:18 > 2:00:21He says the department tried to pressurise him
2:00:21 > 2:00:22into changing the reports.
2:00:25 > 2:00:28One DCAL official noted Paul Scott's assertion
2:00:28 > 2:00:32that full capacity might not be possible was "unacceptable".
2:00:34 > 2:00:38On another occasion he was told that his safety report was,
2:00:38 > 2:00:41"At odds with the department's requirements."
2:00:41 > 2:00:45We were left wondering, has no-one heard of Hillsborough?
2:00:45 > 2:00:48Has no-one heard of Bradford? Has no-one heard of the other disasters?
2:00:50 > 2:00:54They are essentially asking 38,000 people to be accommodated
2:00:54 > 2:00:59in a venue with an emergency evacuation capacity of 15 to 16,000.
2:00:59 > 2:01:01So when these notes were coming back to you
2:01:01 > 2:01:04and they were asking you to change, how were you feeling at that point?
2:01:04 > 2:01:08Incredulous that here is representatives
2:01:08 > 2:01:13of a government department charged with the safety of spectators
2:01:13 > 2:01:16asking us to break the rules.
2:01:16 > 2:01:18And were you...?
2:01:18 > 2:01:21Were you under pressure to break the rules, did you feel?
2:01:21 > 2:01:24We were told what was expected of us.
2:01:24 > 2:01:25We were...
2:01:25 > 2:01:29Yes, we got e-mails asking us to change our report.
2:01:31 > 2:01:35The department told us it had ordered an independent investigation
2:01:35 > 2:01:39to see if there was any evidence of misconduct by their officials
2:01:39 > 2:01:43and the inquiry report rejected Paul Scott's allegations.
2:01:45 > 2:01:50But Paul Scott wasn't prepared to sign off on a 38,000-seater stadium
2:01:50 > 2:01:54until his concerns about emergency exiting were addressed.
2:01:55 > 2:01:56One of the difficulties
2:01:56 > 2:01:59in overcoming the emergency exiting problem
2:01:59 > 2:02:01was that some homes and gardens
2:02:01 > 2:02:04are tight up against the walls of the stadium.
2:02:07 > 2:02:10- I asked in the chemist's next door and they said...- Thank you.
2:02:10 > 2:02:14- ..they couldn't tell me what time he'd be back at.- Right.
2:02:14 > 2:02:1777-year-old Bobby Murray and his wife Sheila
2:02:17 > 2:02:20have lived next to Casement for 48 years.
2:02:22 > 2:02:27Recently, Bobby had to have his legs amputated after an accident.
2:02:27 > 2:02:31But what I intend to do is get a ramp down on these steps
2:02:31 > 2:02:36and be able to drive down into the garden there
2:02:36 > 2:02:39and just sit there and pass the time.
2:02:39 > 2:02:43What sort of effect has the proposed Casement development had?
2:02:43 > 2:02:48Well, I think it is going to destroy my daylight,
2:02:48 > 2:02:51because they are talking about building
2:02:51 > 2:02:53at nearly the height of that lamp up yonder.
2:03:03 > 2:03:07I have a good fear of an emergency
2:03:07 > 2:03:09and me being out there trying to get into my vehicle,
2:03:09 > 2:03:12I would be in big trouble.
2:03:12 > 2:03:14I need to park at my door.
2:03:14 > 2:03:18They will be coming along to say I am not allowed to park there.
2:03:18 > 2:03:20I don't know whether they can do it or not.
2:03:20 > 2:03:22After four years of uncertainty,
2:03:22 > 2:03:25some residents are considering selling up.
2:03:26 > 2:03:28But not everyone.
2:03:28 > 2:03:31I want to see my days out here, cos I love this place.
2:03:35 > 2:03:39It's up to the GAA to solve the emergency exiting problem.
2:03:39 > 2:03:43Spotlight has uncovered a confidential proposal it had
2:03:43 > 2:03:47to knock down houses to create more space.
2:03:47 > 2:03:50The question is, is that still part of its plan?
2:03:50 > 2:03:53What happened before is that there were options being looked at
2:03:53 > 2:03:56in relation to the emergency exiting situation at Casement Park.
2:03:56 > 2:03:58So you can give a cast-iron guarantee
2:03:58 > 2:04:01there won't be any houses demolished as part of this process?
2:04:01 > 2:04:02No cast-iron guarantees...
2:04:02 > 2:04:05- You said there were no plans. - I'm saying there are no plans,
2:04:05 > 2:04:07but I'm saying that we can't give cast-iron guarantees,
2:04:07 > 2:04:09cos it's too early in the design process.
2:04:09 > 2:04:11But you're leaving open the possibility.
2:04:11 > 2:04:13What we're saying is that it is a design development process
2:04:13 > 2:04:16that has just got re-started and it hasn't concluded
2:04:16 > 2:04:18and we're not in that position.
2:04:18 > 2:04:22OK. The reason I'm asking that is we have a document here.
2:04:22 > 2:04:24I just want to show you, and you can tell me whether or not
2:04:24 > 2:04:28that's still on the table, or whether that's been ruled out.
2:04:31 > 2:04:33This is...
2:04:33 > 2:04:35one of the ways in which the...
2:04:36 > 2:04:39..emergency exiting problem could have been resolved.
2:04:39 > 2:04:43Will you just explain to me a bit about what it means?
2:04:43 > 2:04:45I think that you're referring to a document
2:04:45 > 2:04:47that was produced at the CAL Committee.
2:04:47 > 2:04:50I think it's already been discussed and because we're not any longer
2:04:50 > 2:04:53talking about that design and that process,
2:04:53 > 2:04:56I don't think the GAA needs to comment any further on that.
2:04:56 > 2:04:57But what does this show?
2:05:00 > 2:05:02I think this is going into...
2:05:04 > 2:05:06..territory we're not prepared to get involved in, Conor,
2:05:06 > 2:05:10- to be honest.- Why not?- Because this scheme's not being developed.
2:05:10 > 2:05:14This is dated from after the last planning application.
2:05:15 > 2:05:17This was, it seems to me,
2:05:17 > 2:05:19an attempt to deal with the emergency exiting problem.
2:05:21 > 2:05:23And what this shows
2:05:23 > 2:05:27are red lines, which are the flow of people out of the stadium.
2:05:28 > 2:05:31- Is that right? - That's what it is, yeah.
2:05:31 > 2:05:33In the drawing, the red lines go through...
2:05:35 > 2:05:38..one, two, three, four, five houses.
2:05:39 > 2:05:42And did the GAA tell the people in those houses
2:05:42 > 2:05:43- that they had this plan?- No.
2:05:43 > 2:05:47Was it appropriate to be thinking about solving problems
2:05:47 > 2:05:50by demolishing people's houses and not telling the people?
2:05:50 > 2:05:53I think it's appropriate in the sense that people were telling us
2:05:53 > 2:05:57we had a problem. We were looking at potential solutions to that problem.
2:05:57 > 2:05:59But that process has now finished.
2:05:59 > 2:06:01We have been to talk to some of these people
2:06:01 > 2:06:05who live on Mooreland Drive and that's one of the exits there.
2:06:05 > 2:06:09This guy here, who lives in this house, Bobby Murray...
2:06:09 > 2:06:11That's the purpose of the consultation process
2:06:11 > 2:06:13and I would expect we'll be talking to Mr Murray.
2:06:13 > 2:06:14So you can assure Bobby Murray
2:06:14 > 2:06:16that you will be making no attempt whatsoever
2:06:16 > 2:06:17to demolish his house?
2:06:17 > 2:06:19I can't make any assurances
2:06:19 > 2:06:22in relation to how the design will finish up.
2:06:22 > 2:06:25What I will say that's factual at this minute in time -
2:06:25 > 2:06:27the GAA has no plans of that nature.
2:06:29 > 2:06:33But Paul Scott is clear there are only two possibilities
2:06:33 > 2:06:34to make the stadium safe.
2:06:35 > 2:06:38First of all, the capacity can be reduced.
2:06:39 > 2:06:43Or, alternatively, homes could be demolished
2:06:43 > 2:06:48to create additional exits both immediately away from the stadium
2:06:48 > 2:06:50and from the surrounding area.
2:06:52 > 2:06:56OK. And what capacity do you think reasonably can be put on that site?
2:06:57 > 2:07:01If the homes are demolished, you could get the 38,000 on the site.
2:07:01 > 2:07:04However, if homes are not purchased and demolished,
2:07:04 > 2:07:07you're looking at high teens.
2:07:09 > 2:07:12Some residents are worried demolishing houses
2:07:12 > 2:07:13will be back on the table.
2:07:14 > 2:07:18It seems that in all the time we were being talked to,
2:07:18 > 2:07:21there were people somewhere considering
2:07:21 > 2:07:22that in order to make this work,
2:07:22 > 2:07:24houses would have to be knocked down.
2:07:24 > 2:07:28I think that if they have to go down that line, they have lost.
2:07:29 > 2:07:31We went to see some of the residents
2:07:31 > 2:07:33who might have been directly affected
2:07:33 > 2:07:36by the old secret demolition proposal.
2:07:39 > 2:07:41I just wanted to show you this drawing.
2:07:41 > 2:07:44These red lines are the flow of people out of the stadium.
2:07:45 > 2:07:49- And that red line is going through your house there.- Is it?
2:07:49 > 2:07:52- Yeah, have you seen this before? - No, I've never.
2:07:52 > 2:07:56That's shocking. Nobody's told me.
2:07:56 > 2:07:57Did the GAA tell you about it?
2:07:57 > 2:08:01No, the GAA haven't spoke to me at all.
2:08:01 > 2:08:04They haven't spoke to me or said anything.
2:08:04 > 2:08:06It is important to stress that the GAA have told us
2:08:06 > 2:08:08this is an old plan.
2:08:08 > 2:08:11- Yeah.- How do you feel when you see this?
2:08:11 > 2:08:13I feel angry. I feel very angry.
2:08:14 > 2:08:16I mean...
2:08:16 > 2:08:17What can I say?
2:08:18 > 2:08:22I'm... I'm absolutely gobsmacked, really...
2:08:23 > 2:08:26It really is... It's hard to take in.
2:08:26 > 2:08:30I mean, is there anybody going to help us here, you know?
2:08:32 > 2:08:35The Murrays' house is just around the corner.
2:08:37 > 2:08:39What this plan would mean
2:08:39 > 2:08:41is that your house wouldn't be there any more.
2:08:41 > 2:08:45My house would be gone? Right.
2:08:45 > 2:08:47Didn't know that.
2:08:47 > 2:08:50I tell you what, I don't like it one piece.
2:08:50 > 2:08:52Definitely not. It's a surprise to me.
2:08:54 > 2:08:58And as a matter of fact, it's not a surprise, it's a disaster to me.
2:08:58 > 2:09:01This is the best place I've ever lived in my lifetime.
2:09:01 > 2:09:04We've spoken to the GAA about it,
2:09:04 > 2:09:05and they have told us that it's an old plan
2:09:05 > 2:09:09- and it's currently off the table. - Right.
2:09:09 > 2:09:12I definitely don't want to move from here.
2:09:12 > 2:09:13Cos look at me, I've no legs.
2:09:13 > 2:09:15Where am I going to go?
2:09:18 > 2:09:19Definitely not.
2:09:21 > 2:09:23In a statement since our interview,
2:09:23 > 2:09:27the GAA told us the demolition scenario we uncovered
2:09:27 > 2:09:31was now obsolete and would not be part of a new planning application.
2:09:32 > 2:09:37It pointed out it does not itself have compulsory purchase powers
2:09:37 > 2:09:40and has now said the development of Casement Park
2:09:40 > 2:09:45will not involve the compulsory purchase of any properties.
2:09:45 > 2:09:49It also said the capacity of a new stadium is not yet decided.
2:09:51 > 2:09:54When Paul Scott went public with his safety concerns,
2:09:54 > 2:09:56the former minister Caral Ni Chuilin
2:09:56 > 2:10:00said it was the first time she'd heard about the issue.
2:10:00 > 2:10:04But Spotlight has seen a report she was given six months before
2:10:04 > 2:10:08where emergency exiting at Casement is listed as an issue.
2:10:10 > 2:10:11Here I can show you a document
2:10:11 > 2:10:14and this is a report you were given at the sponsor board.
2:10:14 > 2:10:15Under "issues", it says,
2:10:15 > 2:10:18"Emergency evacuation plan to be further developed
2:10:18 > 2:10:20"to meet GAA's need for a 38,000-capacity stadium."
2:10:20 > 2:10:22- You were given that report six months...- That's not a report.
2:10:22 > 2:10:24- ..before you said it was an issue. - Excuse me.
2:10:24 > 2:10:27I don't need you to read it out to me. I was at the meeting.
2:10:27 > 2:10:30- You chaired the meeting. - I chaired the meeting.
2:10:30 > 2:10:33- It says there was an issue.- No, it says it IS an issue...- Yeah.
2:10:33 > 2:10:35..because an evacuation plan
2:10:35 > 2:10:39is an issue for every major capital programme.
2:10:39 > 2:10:41But it's under "issues". Issues mean problems.
2:10:41 > 2:10:44No, issues mean things that need to be resolved.
2:10:44 > 2:10:46- Problems need to be resolved.- No, issues that need to be resolved.
2:10:46 > 2:10:49- So you did know about it at that stage?- No, I didn't.
2:10:49 > 2:10:52'Paul Scott says he's been professionally undermined
2:10:52 > 2:10:54'by having his advice ignored.'
2:10:54 > 2:10:56It leaves you very angry
2:10:56 > 2:10:59because you tried to do the right thing.
2:10:59 > 2:11:02You brought the design problems, etc,
2:11:02 > 2:11:06to the attention of the department,
2:11:06 > 2:11:13and rather than being thanked for what you had done,
2:11:13 > 2:11:16you have become the villain of the piece number one,
2:11:16 > 2:11:17you have been maligned.
2:11:17 > 2:11:21One of the reasons Paul Scott feels he's been maligned
2:11:21 > 2:11:24is because of the findings of a special report
2:11:24 > 2:11:25commissioned by the minister.
2:11:25 > 2:11:29She asked Whitehall civil servants to look at his claims.
2:11:29 > 2:11:31When their report came out,
2:11:31 > 2:11:33it concluded that Paul Scott was mistaken
2:11:33 > 2:11:35in some of his safety views,
2:11:35 > 2:11:38and it recommended a new chairperson
2:11:38 > 2:11:40for the Safety Technical Group.
2:11:40 > 2:11:44This report basically said that you didn't know what you were doing.
2:11:44 > 2:11:48- More or less.- And how does that feel at that point?
2:11:49 > 2:11:51Devastating. Absolutely devastating.
2:11:51 > 2:11:54It was one of the worst days of my life.
2:11:54 > 2:11:57The crux of the dispute over that Whitehall report
2:11:57 > 2:12:01centred on the use of the pitch in an emergency evacuation.
2:12:01 > 2:12:04Paul Scott's view is that people shouldn't be held on the pitch
2:12:04 > 2:12:08in an emergency, but the Whitehall report said the rules
2:12:08 > 2:12:09didn't back him up.
2:12:09 > 2:12:13That dispute is still subject to an on-going debate.
2:12:13 > 2:12:16The former DCAL minister,
2:12:16 > 2:12:18who had repeatedly promised to get Casement built,
2:12:18 > 2:12:22was quick to emphasize the finding about the pitch.
2:12:22 > 2:12:23The 20 recommendations
2:12:23 > 2:12:26said that they needed to have a new Safety Technical Group
2:12:26 > 2:12:28with many more experts
2:12:28 > 2:12:31and certainly specialist advisors on that,
2:12:31 > 2:12:33which has since happened.
2:12:33 > 2:12:38They said, which was, I thought, very, very clear,
2:12:38 > 2:12:41that, in terms of safety evacuation, that the pitch could be used.
2:12:41 > 2:12:44But people need to be able to leave quickly
2:12:44 > 2:12:46without being held on the pitch,
2:12:46 > 2:12:49according to both the Sports Ground Safety Authority in Britain,
2:12:49 > 2:12:50and Phil Scraton.
2:12:50 > 2:12:54To say that people will be held on the pitch
2:12:54 > 2:12:57is, to a large extent, hope rather than reality.
2:12:57 > 2:13:00We're foreseeing that, hopefully, people won't panic.
2:13:00 > 2:13:04That, hopefully, people would, in that circumstance,
2:13:04 > 2:13:09receive instructions from stewards and just stay calm.
2:13:09 > 2:13:12But if you're inside a stadium
2:13:12 > 2:13:16and you're on a pitch and there's a major incident going off around you,
2:13:16 > 2:13:19the one thing you have in your mind,
2:13:19 > 2:13:23as we've seen in every single disaster, is getting out.
2:13:23 > 2:13:27That's when you have the overloading of the exit points.
2:13:27 > 2:13:31That's when you have congestion at the exit points.
2:13:31 > 2:13:33And that is the real problem.
2:13:34 > 2:13:38The GAA says if all goes well with its next planning application,
2:13:38 > 2:13:41the new Casement could be open in 2019.
2:13:43 > 2:13:46The GAA genuinely wants Casement to be in Ireland's second city,
2:13:46 > 2:13:50a statement of the GAA's role, the GAA's relevance in the community,
2:13:50 > 2:13:53and the people of West Belfast deserve that.
2:13:53 > 2:13:57West Belfast would have its equivalent of the Titanic Quarter,
2:13:57 > 2:14:00bringing tourism and investment to the area,
2:14:00 > 2:14:04but there are still unanswered questions
2:14:04 > 2:14:06about how to keep fans safe.
2:14:06 > 2:14:09I understand that Casement Park is important -
2:14:09 > 2:14:13it's a community facility - but however...
2:14:13 > 2:14:15Whichever way I look at it
2:14:15 > 2:14:19and however strongly I feel that stadia like that
2:14:19 > 2:14:22have a meaning for the people who live in the area,
2:14:22 > 2:14:24and of course I understand that,
2:14:24 > 2:14:29the issue is, we cannot ever compromise crowd safety.
2:14:29 > 2:14:33In 2015, there were over 1.5 million people went through Croke Park.
2:14:33 > 2:14:36The GAA takes health and safety very, very importantly.
2:14:36 > 2:14:39Whatever happens with the GAA's new planning application
2:14:39 > 2:14:41in the coming months,
2:14:41 > 2:14:44it looks like the battle over Casement will continue.
2:14:44 > 2:14:47The challenge will be balancing
2:14:47 > 2:14:51the interests of the hundreds of people living around the stadium
2:14:51 > 2:14:55with those of the hundreds of thousands who will visit it,
2:14:55 > 2:14:59and, above all, the issue of safety.