:00:19. > :00:33.A warning that this programme contains strong language.
:00:34. > :00:41.A summer's day in Belfast. A man who was once one of the richest people
:00:42. > :00:46.in Northern Ireland has left his hospital bed for a meeting. He is
:00:47. > :01:18.about to secretly record it. This is the actual conversation he recorded.
:01:19. > :01:26.If the location of the meeting was unusual, the start of it was utterly
:01:27. > :01:27.remarkable. Property developer John Miskelly was handing over a bag full
:01:28. > :01:49.of cash. ?40,000, paid to a man promising to
:01:50. > :01:52.use his "Insider status" to ease the businessman's financial problems. A
:01:53. > :02:09.payment that depended on utter secrecy.
:02:10. > :02:17.This is the man taking the cash - Frank Cushnahan - a man with a
:02:18. > :02:23.formidable reputation in Northern Ireland business and banking
:02:24. > :02:29.circles. Frank Cushnahan played a hidden role in the biggest property
:02:30. > :02:32.transaction yet seen in Northern Ireland. Role Spotlight revealed
:02:33. > :02:40.when we first investigated the deal six months ago. Almost 900
:02:41. > :02:47.properties over ?1 billion. I'm not a single for sale sign anywhere. --
:02:48. > :02:52.and not. Cushnahan had an astonishing presence throughout that
:02:53. > :02:57.deal. He was advising the sellers, the buyers and property developers
:02:58. > :03:02.who benefited from the sale. While we were making that first programme,
:03:03. > :03:07.Cushnahan denied that he sought or received any fixers' fees from the
:03:08. > :03:12.transaction. But he already admitted he was in line for exactly that kind
:03:13. > :03:13.of payment when he was secretly recorded, speaking about himself in
:03:14. > :03:29.the third person. What Frank Cushnahan didn't know at
:03:30. > :03:31.that time was that there were more recordings referring to more secret
:03:32. > :03:43.cash and secret connections. What makes the content of these
:03:44. > :03:53.recordings even more shocking is that Frank Cushnahan -- Frank
:03:54. > :03:58.Cushnahan's high-level connections. This is a sign of Frank Cushnahan
:03:59. > :04:01.standing in Belfast. When he stepped down as chairman of the harboured
:04:02. > :04:06.commission as a decade ago, his portrait was painted right at the
:04:07. > :04:18.very heart of this huge area he presided over. An area that includes
:04:19. > :04:25.Cushnahan Quay. So what was a man with such sterling credentials doing
:04:26. > :04:29.a bag of money in a car park? Of course, Frank Cushnahan didn't know
:04:30. > :04:34.he was bleeding -- being secretly recorded by Frank Miss Kelly, and by
:04:35. > :04:35.his own account he couldn't resist being the deal -- John Miskelly. And
:04:36. > :05:09.he couldn't resist doing the deal. One of his lawyers told Spotlight
:05:10. > :05:15.Cushnahan has been a trusted sounding board for senior executive
:05:16. > :05:18.ministers over many years. Certainly DUP ministers spoke highly of him
:05:19. > :05:27.during Stormont committee meetings last year. Good morning, First
:05:28. > :05:30.Minister. Look, I've made it clear publicly that I've been friendly
:05:31. > :05:39.with Frank for many years. Good afternoon. I thought that he was
:05:40. > :05:49.pugnacious but I learned to respect him and I still do and still count
:05:50. > :05:53.him as a friend. Former Finance Minister Sammy Wilson didn't just
:05:54. > :05:59.respect Frank Cushnahan, he nominated him to be an advisor to
:06:00. > :06:04.Ireland's bad bank, the National Asset Management Agency, known as
:06:05. > :06:09.Nama. Created by the Dublin government in
:06:10. > :06:14.response to the financial crash in 2009, Nama rescued Irish banks by
:06:15. > :06:21.taking over 70 billion euros in bad loans. The crash had put millions of
:06:22. > :06:25.people around the world into a financial hole called negative
:06:26. > :06:29.equity. They owed more money for their homes than those houses or
:06:30. > :06:35.flats were now worth. Many ended up losing their homes as a result. But
:06:36. > :06:40.property developers were on a completely different scale of debt.
:06:41. > :06:46.They owed a vast amounts of money on buildings and land with no hope of
:06:47. > :06:50.getting the money back. Their homes might also have been
:06:51. > :06:55.under threat, but the greater danger was to the very banks they borrowed
:06:56. > :07:03.from. As Nama's chief executive indicated last year. Lending appears
:07:04. > :07:11.to have been particularly risky. Five Irish banks advanced 1.5
:07:12. > :07:15.sterling to property that was subsequently lost -- that
:07:16. > :07:19.subsequently lost over two thirds of its value. Nama, funded by the Irish
:07:20. > :07:25.taxpayer, stepped in to take over the property developers' bad debts.
:07:26. > :07:29.There was one important restriction on the developers. They were not
:07:30. > :07:35.allowed to buy their properties back from Nama for anything less than the
:07:36. > :07:38.total amount they owed, and in most cases, that was completely
:07:39. > :07:43.unfeasible. The only way it would be possible
:07:44. > :07:49.for developers to get properties back would be if a fund took over
:07:50. > :07:53.the Nama loans and did what Nama was prevented from doing - settling for
:07:54. > :07:57.less than the full amount owed. Two years ago, that is what happened.
:07:58. > :08:02.All the Northern Ireland loans were bought from Nama by a massive
:08:03. > :08:06.American financial company. And they began refinancing some of the
:08:07. > :08:12.developers, in other words, selling their properties back to them for
:08:13. > :08:16.less than they originally owed. But last year, the UK's National
:08:17. > :08:21.Crime Agency and American investigators began looking into
:08:22. > :08:25.aspects of that sale, including Frank Cushnahan's intricate and
:08:26. > :08:33.sometime hidden relationships with the buyers, sellers and developers.
:08:34. > :08:37.As we will see later in the programme, those investigations led
:08:38. > :08:40.Frank Cushnahan to embark on a major cover-up, an attempt to hide his
:08:41. > :08:54.tracks that was also secretly recorded.
:08:55. > :09:00.Frank Cushnahan had spent three and a half years advising Nama about
:09:01. > :09:05.their Northern Ireland loan portfolio, a position he had been
:09:06. > :09:09.given because of his connections. I appointed him because of his
:09:10. > :09:13.interests. I mean, that's the base on which I chose him. That I knew
:09:14. > :09:17.that he had interests in banking, I knew he had contacts in the world of
:09:18. > :09:23.finance, I knew he had interest in the property market, and therefore
:09:24. > :09:27.that gave him a knowledge which I believed he could then take to the
:09:28. > :09:32.advisory committee in Nama and use for the good of Northern Ireland.
:09:33. > :09:38.But Nama also lead Cushnahan to the man who would hand him a bag of
:09:39. > :09:41.money and record his secrets, a mysterious and publicity-Shi'ite
:09:42. > :09:50.County Down businessman named John Miskelly. -- publicity shy. John
:09:51. > :09:55.Miskelly was a hugely successful property developer. At one time he
:09:56. > :10:04.was in The Sunday Times rich list with a fortune of millions. He was a
:10:05. > :10:09.bidder for Liverpool Football Club. But Miskelly's fortunes took a
:10:10. > :10:13.downturn. He began suffering serious health problems that saw him
:10:14. > :10:17.routinely hospitalised in the financial crash saw the property end
:10:18. > :10:22.of his empire crumble. Buildings he owned, including town square in
:10:23. > :10:29.Belfast, were suddenly worth far less than what he owed the banks.
:10:30. > :10:36.With corporate debts close to ?100 million, which Miskelly's properties
:10:37. > :10:42.were absorbed by Nama. -- Miskelly's properties. Despite his spectacular
:10:43. > :10:47.climb and fall, John Miskelly has been an elusive figure. You hear his
:10:48. > :10:52.name but he is nearly impossible to track down. That's why he's such an
:10:53. > :10:56.intriguing figure. Because he has such power and such wealth, but
:10:57. > :11:00.nobody knows really who this guy is and you can't even get a photograph
:11:01. > :11:04.of him. These pictures, secretly recorded by Spotlight last year
:11:05. > :11:14.during the meeting with Frank Cushnahan, are among the few images
:11:15. > :11:18.of Miskelly that are known to exist. Because their respective profiles
:11:19. > :11:21.were so low, Cushnahan and Miskelly knew very little about each other
:11:22. > :11:27.when they met outside the City Hospital four years ago. But it
:11:28. > :11:32.seems they both trusted the judgment of the man who introduced them.
:11:33. > :11:37.Gareth Robinson. The son of former First Minister Peter Robinson.
:11:38. > :12:19.I didn't even know... There is no suggestion Gareth
:12:20. > :12:24.Robinson was aware of the ?40,000 payment or had any role in it. But
:12:25. > :12:29.in contact that lasted over the next four years, that wasn't the last
:12:30. > :12:34.time his name would come up in conversation between Miskelly and
:12:35. > :12:38.Cushnahan. John Miskelly has told Spotlight he
:12:39. > :12:43.has been recording business meetings for years. He said he started after
:12:44. > :12:49.he believed he was defrauded in a property transaction. What he ended
:12:50. > :12:54.up capturing was corrupt behaviour by the individual at the heart of
:12:55. > :12:55.the biggest property transaction in Northern Ireland's history. Frank
:12:56. > :13:07.Cushnahan. We played some of those recordings
:13:08. > :13:11.to financial journalist Ian Fraser. The author of a book about the
:13:12. > :13:14.collapse of the Royal Bank of Scotland, he is well acquainted with
:13:15. > :13:33.some of Britain's biggest financial scandals.
:13:34. > :13:39.It is extraordinary that it has been captured on tape. It is amazing.
:13:40. > :13:46.This is like dynamite, it is totally corrupt. Have you ever come across
:13:47. > :13:50.anything like this before? In 25 years as a financial journalist, I
:13:51. > :13:54.have never heard a tape like this. I have been involved with stories
:13:55. > :13:57.where there are allegations of bribes and brown envelopes, but I
:13:58. > :14:02.have never had it as blatant as this. John Miskelly says he started
:14:03. > :14:11.making his recordings because he wanted to expose wrongdoing. He says
:14:12. > :14:19.he told the PSNI about Frank Cushnahan in 2014. We know he's now
:14:20. > :14:25.handed some of his recordings over to the National Crime Agency and
:14:26. > :14:30.America's Securities and Exchange Commission. John Miskelly is in many
:14:31. > :14:36.ways the ghost at the banquet of this piece. He seems to have amassed
:14:37. > :14:39.a huge amount of information, information he now seems to be
:14:40. > :14:46.willing to share with the authorities not only in written but
:14:47. > :14:50.also in the United States. Miskelly says he has more material that he
:14:51. > :14:54.has not supplied the spotlight, so we can't know the entirety of what
:14:55. > :14:59.he has recorded, and he has not answered many of our questions about
:15:00. > :15:04.what is exposed by these recordings, including aspects of his own
:15:05. > :15:09.behaviour, questions like why he waited, in some cases several years,
:15:10. > :15:14.to release the tapes. Was it because Cushnahan didn't deliver what he was
:15:15. > :15:21.paid ?40,000 for in the car park? There is no doubt that payment was
:15:22. > :15:24.improper. As a member of Nama's Northern Ireland advisory committee,
:15:25. > :15:28.Frank Cushnahan should have told Nama about any dealings with John
:15:29. > :15:37.Miskelly, never mind secretly accepting ?40,000 in cash from him.
:15:38. > :15:42.The question is, what was that ?40,000 cash payments opposed by?
:15:43. > :15:46.According to what Cushnahan says in the recording, he was going to help
:15:47. > :15:51.John Miskelly escape from Nama, something that would EA breach of
:15:52. > :16:02.the law in the Republic. As we know, Irish Lord prevented developers like
:16:03. > :16:05.-- Irish law prevented developers like a Miskelly from buying out of
:16:06. > :16:12.their contracts getting others to do it for them. If any of your loans
:16:13. > :16:16.are in default with Nama, no one acting on your behalf, no trustee or
:16:17. > :16:21.agent can purchase those on your behalf. But that is exactly what
:16:22. > :16:31.Frank Cushnahan proposed, extracting Miss -- Miskelly from Nama by having
:16:32. > :16:34.his loans bought by a third party. It admits Miskelly would get control
:16:35. > :16:42.of his property back for less than what he owed the Irish taxpayer.
:16:43. > :16:45.Cushnahan even cited the law he was intending to circumvent, section 172
:16:46. > :17:14.of the Nama act. So, if a Nama committee member
:17:15. > :17:22.attempted to help the developer buy-back assets from Nama using a
:17:23. > :17:26.third-party, how series would be? It would be very serious for a whole
:17:27. > :17:32.host of reasons. It would be wrong because there would be a huge
:17:33. > :17:36.conflict-of-interest with assisting a developer in any way, but also the
:17:37. > :17:43.use of a third party doesn't change the fact that it would be a breach
:17:44. > :17:46.of the Nama act. After taking John Miskelly's money, Frank Cushnahan
:17:47. > :17:51.made an extraordinary claim about why his plan would work. He claims
:17:52. > :17:58.he could influence a senior executive insight Nama. Spotlight
:17:59. > :18:03.has spent more than a year investigating this story, and in
:18:04. > :18:08.that time, it has become clear to us that Frank Cushnahan is not a man
:18:09. > :18:15.who always tells the truth. He saturated to John Miskelly --
:18:16. > :18:21.exaggerated, he hid his financial interest and he attempted to mislead
:18:22. > :18:25.our investigation. So what he says next on the recording may well be an
:18:26. > :18:29.invention, but if it were true, it would raise significant issues for
:18:30. > :18:36.Nama about the integrity of its Northern Ireland operations.
:18:37. > :18:41.Cushnahan's big claim is that he has access to this man, Ronnie Hanna,
:18:42. > :18:53.one of Nama's most senior executives. Cler Mac John Miskelly
:18:54. > :18:58.knew that Ronnie Hanna, who comes from Northern Ireland, was Nama's
:18:59. > :19:01.head of asset recovery. Part of his job was to ensure debt is paid back
:19:02. > :19:16.as much as possible. He was one of the top senior
:19:17. > :19:19.executives at Nama, and he sat in a very senior position, which would
:19:20. > :19:24.have given him over cited a crucial aspect of Nama. Frank Cushnahan's
:19:25. > :19:29.claims are not direct evidence of any wrongdoing, and Ronnie Hanna
:19:30. > :19:33.vehemently denies that he and Cushnahan were thick as thieves, or
:19:34. > :19:39.that he had any improper dealings with Cushnahan. But assuming Ronnie
:19:40. > :19:43.Hanna didn't know it, Frank Cushnahan was making promises on his
:19:44. > :19:47.behalf, telling John Miskelly that his access to him would help him get
:19:48. > :20:12.his property portfolio back. Frank Cushnahan may well have made
:20:13. > :20:17.up these extraordinary claims about what he could do with Ronnie Hanna's
:20:18. > :20:21.help just to get ?40,000 out of John Miskelly. And it's important to
:20:22. > :20:28.remember that ultimately he didn't do what he said he would. His plan
:20:29. > :20:33.to extract John Miskelly from Nama didn't work, but there is evidence
:20:34. > :20:38.that he did try to get Miskelly out, and this is it.
:20:39. > :20:50.John Miskelly says Frank Cushnahan wrote this note, a report on his
:20:51. > :20:54.Nama properties shortly after he paid Cushnahan ?40,000. We have
:20:55. > :20:58.asked Cushnahan about this note and shown a copy to his lawyers. He has
:20:59. > :21:05.not responded to our questions about it. What is significant about this
:21:06. > :21:11.document is that it contains what appears to be secret information.
:21:12. > :21:20.The value Nama attached to each of John Miskelly's properties. Nama has
:21:21. > :21:22.said repeatedly that in his role as an adviser, Frank Cushnahan had no
:21:23. > :21:28.access to information about individual debtors like John
:21:29. > :21:32.Miskelly. But if these numbers are what this note says they are, they
:21:33. > :21:37.are among Nama's most closely guarded secrets. We have shown these
:21:38. > :21:42.figures to Nama, and asked them twice if it is the same information
:21:43. > :21:49.held by them. They have refused to confirm or deny it. Why is the value
:21:50. > :21:54.that Nama puts on properties or assets so important? Nama guard so
:21:55. > :21:57.jealously because if that information gets out, a bidder
:21:58. > :22:00.effectively knows what Nama's price point is and where they will sell.
:22:01. > :22:06.They know exactly how to price their bid.
:22:07. > :22:14.Inside information about pricing goes against the normal rules of the
:22:15. > :22:21.marketplace. Knowing the seller's bottom-line puts the buyer at an
:22:22. > :22:26.advantage. I would really like one of these beautiful boxes, gorgeous.
:22:27. > :22:34.This is Boxwood, Rosewood, this one is mahogany. How much are you
:22:35. > :22:44.looking for this? About ?25 each. How much did you pay for it? I
:22:45. > :22:49.probably paid about ?17. Would you give it to me for 15? Give it if a
:22:50. > :22:53.less than you bought it. That's reasonable. How can that be
:22:54. > :23:01.reasonable? We have to make some profit. I will give it due for 20
:23:02. > :23:08.quid. I think you should give it to me for 15!
:23:09. > :23:12.Nama transactions routinely stretch into millions and even billions.
:23:13. > :23:20.Which is why Nama pricing is supposed to be carefully guarded.
:23:21. > :23:29.It's actually against the law in the Republic to share information from
:23:30. > :23:31.inside Nama. Earlier this year, a former Nama official was convicted
:23:32. > :23:39.of distributing the same type of information. The judge said Ende
:23:40. > :23:43.Farrell only escapes jail because he hadn't gained financially from the
:23:44. > :23:48.leak. A second former official is awaiting trial on similar charges.
:23:49. > :24:05.If a Nama committee member was found to be in possession or of leaking
:24:06. > :24:13.valuations, of a debtor that was unknown to Nama, what would be the
:24:14. > :24:17.indication there? They shouldn't have any sort of conflict of
:24:18. > :24:23.interest like that, but in general, any disclosure of sensitive Nama
:24:24. > :24:26.information is a serious offence. But it is only a serious offence in
:24:27. > :24:30.the Republic. It is a matter that appears to be beyond the remit of
:24:31. > :24:45.the National Crime Agency's current investigation. John McGinn
:24:46. > :24:52.McGuinness now heads the finance committee. Both bodies that those
:24:53. > :25:00.who scrutinise Nama. He has already heard much evidence about Nama's
:25:01. > :25:08.Northern Ireland seal. Quite frankly, it does stink a bit, and I
:25:09. > :25:13.would be deeply concerned about it. We showed him the handwritten note.
:25:14. > :25:20.This is a noted that appears to detail the Nama valuations or the
:25:21. > :25:27.values Nama have placed on John Miskelly's... The properties he has
:25:28. > :25:31.within Nama. It is not just sensitive information, it is
:25:32. > :25:36.commercially sensitive, information that should not have been exchanged
:25:37. > :25:41.with another party unless it was with the full authority of Nama.
:25:42. > :25:46.That does not seem to be the case that Nama gave the authority to
:25:47. > :25:53.release this information, therefore it is a breach, it is the law being
:25:54. > :25:57.broken by an individual. It is not a breach in Northern Ireland. It is
:25:58. > :26:05.not something that the MCA will probably look at. So does business
:26:06. > :26:09.rate further investigation? That is the difficulty here, it is always
:26:10. > :26:13.the difficulty that there are two jurisdictions, but this is so
:26:14. > :26:20.serious, if it is true, and investigation must be carried out by
:26:21. > :26:26.Nama. An explanation must be given by Nama relative to the valuations
:26:27. > :26:33.and this note. Otherwise, what's happening is doubt is being created
:26:34. > :26:41.in the minds of the public of South of Ireland and North of Ireland, and
:26:42. > :26:46.no real answers are being given. So, where did the information come from?
:26:47. > :26:51.There are three main possibilities. These figures may have been Frank
:26:52. > :26:56.Cushnahan's best guesses, or he got them from John Miskelly. Or he was
:26:57. > :27:02.given them directly by someone inside Nama. There were hints about
:27:03. > :27:03.the origins of the information in the City Hospital conversation a
:27:04. > :27:49.month before the note was written. Ronnie Hanna, who left Nama two
:27:50. > :27:56.years ago, has denied absolutely supplying any confidential
:27:57. > :28:01.information to Frank Cushnahan. He said he could not answer further
:28:02. > :28:03.questions because of the ongoing MCA investigation, and because he has a
:28:04. > :28:08.duty of confidentiality to his former employers. Even if the
:28:09. > :28:12.information did originate from inside Nama, it is clear from the
:28:13. > :28:17.prosecutions in the Republic that it could have come from a number of
:28:18. > :28:21.possible sources. We've asked Frank Cushnahan about it. He said he
:28:22. > :28:26.served on the Nama advisory committee to help Northern Ireland,
:28:27. > :28:31.not to acquire sensitive information that he could apply for his own
:28:32. > :28:34.personal benefit. So, could this information have come from John
:28:35. > :28:39.Miskelly in the first place? Document refers to one of his former
:28:40. > :28:44.employees knowing Nama's approved selling price for one property. And
:28:45. > :28:46.Miskelly seems to say in the recording that he already has access
:28:47. > :29:03.to some confidential information. But John Miskelly has told us the
:29:04. > :29:08.?60 million was a number already in the public domain. He insists the
:29:09. > :29:14.figures purporting to be Nama valuations in the document were new
:29:15. > :29:19.to him. Nama has refused to discuss what
:29:20. > :29:23.appears to be a leak, but if Frank Cushnahan had actual insider
:29:24. > :29:28.information from the agency, that would have significant implications
:29:29. > :29:35.for Nama and the Irish government. If evidence of more leaks, or more
:29:36. > :29:39.breaches occur, how serious would that be for Nama? Very serious,
:29:40. > :29:46.extremely serious. A breach of the law. Those are criminal acts and it
:29:47. > :29:53.would be extremely serious. It could also run against the grain of the
:29:54. > :30:00.story that Nama has told time and again to committees and elsewhere,
:30:01. > :30:04.that they run a very tight ship. Two years ago, with very little advance
:30:05. > :30:14.notice, Nama suddenly pulled out of Northern Ireland.
:30:15. > :30:19.REPORTER: Widdecombe was on breaking news. US investment fund has bought
:30:20. > :30:24.the entire... -- we begin with breaking news.
:30:25. > :30:32.It was bought by a massive American fund called Cerberus. The seal was
:30:33. > :30:36.named Project Eagle. The price was over ?1 billion, which represented a
:30:37. > :30:44.loss for the Irish taxpayer but was declared a win for Northern Ireland.
:30:45. > :30:48.The seal unlocked things for the heavily indebted developers, now
:30:49. > :30:52.given the chance to regain control of their properties. Freed from
:30:53. > :30:59.Nama, one Northern Ireland developer managed to wipe away debts of ?250
:31:00. > :31:04.million. Not John Miskelly. Frank Cushnahan's
:31:05. > :31:08.escape plan had come to nothing. And Cerberus sold his properties onto
:31:09. > :31:13.someone else. He is still involved in legal action against the American
:31:14. > :31:19.company. At the time, Project Eagle -- at the
:31:20. > :31:23.time Project Eagle was announced, few people knew Frank Cushnahan's
:31:24. > :31:29.role. By the time of the seal, you had resigned from the committee,
:31:30. > :31:33.referring to family priorities. But almost two years earlier he had
:31:34. > :31:41.already outlined to John Miskelly how he would use his insider status
:31:42. > :31:46.to set up the entire seal. Cushnahan's big plan was effectively
:31:47. > :31:50.what happened. He said he wanted to use a giant American fund to get all
:31:51. > :31:55.of Northern Ireland's developers out of Nama.
:31:56. > :31:56.At that stage, he said he was already talking to potential
:31:57. > :32:25.American buyers. And he said the plan had a political
:32:26. > :32:29.component. The intervention of DUP ministers, including one who counted
:32:30. > :32:31.himself among Cushnahan's loyal friends. The then Finance Minister
:32:32. > :32:45.Sammy Wilson. Cushnahan thought Nama might be
:32:46. > :32:50.willing to sell the Northern Ireland portfolio. And he believed political
:32:51. > :32:55.pressure could cut the price. As he told Miskelly, if the Americans
:32:56. > :32:58.could get a bargain, they would sell properties back to the developers at
:32:59. > :33:02.a lower price, and, in his words, that would leave the developers
:33:03. > :33:45.smelling of roses. It's clear there was a political
:33:46. > :33:49.contest here. Do you think he's bluffing about the amount of
:33:50. > :33:54.influence he had? With the Finance Minister working behind-the-scenes
:33:55. > :33:58.in 2012? Is very hard to tell, but from some of the remarks, he
:33:59. > :33:59.genuinely seems to believe he can manipulate things to suit his own
:34:00. > :34:30.ends. As a paid Nama advisor, Frank
:34:31. > :34:35.Cushnahan should have told Nama about any contacts he had concerning
:34:36. > :34:40.Nama business. That Nama says he didn't tell the agency he was
:34:41. > :34:43.recruiting American investors. In fact, it now seems Cushnahan
:34:44. > :34:50.contacted every single bidder for the Project Eagle portfolio without
:34:51. > :34:51.Nama's knowledge. One of them was prepared to pay Cushnahan ?5
:34:52. > :35:03.million. Of course, Cushnahan's plan to leave
:35:04. > :35:08.developers smelling of roses also involved bringing politics into the
:35:09. > :35:15.marketplace. He told John Miskelly he wanted executive ministers to
:35:16. > :35:25.drive the price down. I absolutely love this vintage ring. Good, good.
:35:26. > :35:29.It's mocked at ?32. How much did you pay for it? I can't tell you that!
:35:30. > :35:36.I'll pay you less than you paid for it. You're not paying me less than
:35:37. > :35:38.you paid -- than I paid for it! Frank Cushnahan seem to think
:35:39. > :35:47.politics would change the way the market works. Frank Cushnahan wanted
:35:48. > :35:51.to Sammy Wilson and Peter Robinson to ask the Dublin government to cut
:35:52. > :36:13.the price of Nama's Northern Ireland portfolio.
:36:14. > :36:18.A discount from Dublin. That was Frank Cushnahan's plan. The question
:36:19. > :36:33.is, did it work? The portfolio was sold at a loss.
:36:34. > :36:38.And we know that when the first offer for the Nama package came
:36:39. > :36:41.forward, Peter Robinson has asked the Dublin Finance Minister what
:36:42. > :36:45.could be done to protect the Northern Ireland economy. But the
:36:46. > :36:49.Irish government and Peter Robinson have told us there was never any
:36:50. > :36:55.discussion about a discount in their talks about the Northern Ireland
:36:56. > :36:59.seal. Mr Robinson told us the suggestion of a discount was
:37:00. > :37:04.miserable and we were only using his name to create interest in this
:37:05. > :37:09.programme. We also asked Sammy Wilson about Frank Cushnahan's
:37:10. > :37:13.claimed that he was working behind-the-scenes to sell the Nama
:37:14. > :37:19.portfolio. He did not respond to our question. Nama insists it got the
:37:20. > :37:24.best price possible. After listening to Cushnahan on the recording,
:37:25. > :37:28.finance committee chairman John McGuinness isn't so sure. It was
:37:29. > :37:35.sold for substantially less than what I would have anticipated that
:37:36. > :37:40.it was worth. It's clear from what was being said on your tape that an
:37:41. > :37:46.arrangement was being made to use the political system to stop the
:37:47. > :37:51.sale of Project Eagle for the benefit of a small number of people.
:37:52. > :37:55.Essentially it would appear to me that Mr Cushnahan was using the
:37:56. > :37:59.political system and the economy of Northern Ireland to get that
:38:00. > :38:05.discount, and whether people knew his intentions or not, he obviously
:38:06. > :38:10.had it well worked out, a plan, to achieve what he wanted. This throws
:38:11. > :38:18.a whole new light on it and I think it goes back to both governments to
:38:19. > :38:22.take action on it. The Sinn Fein TD is currently a member of the Public
:38:23. > :38:28.Accounts Committee in Dublin and has also questioned Nama about the sale.
:38:29. > :38:33.What is absolutely certain is that we saw a web of relationships
:38:34. > :38:39.between a small number of people within Nama and associated with
:38:40. > :38:43.Nama, and associated with the Project Eagle portfolio, and to
:38:44. > :38:47.anybody looking at that turn of events, you would question, for
:38:48. > :38:51.somebody being played for a full? Was somebody willingly played as a
:38:52. > :38:59.full? And what exactly were the dynamics? -- is a fool? I don't
:39:00. > :39:03.believe we have all of it yet. Spotlight has been given an account
:39:04. > :39:10.of another meeting between John Miskelly and Frank Cushnahan and
:39:11. > :39:14.another secret payment. In early 2013, as flat protesters marched in
:39:15. > :39:22.Belfast city centre, Cushnahan and Miskelly met in Tughans' law firm.
:39:23. > :39:26.It was a Saturday afternoon and Frank Cushnahan was on his way to
:39:27. > :39:30.Stormont, so the brief meeting took place in the lobby. It began much
:39:31. > :39:34.might -- much like the earlier meeting at Belfast City Hospital,
:39:35. > :39:40.with John Miskelly handing Frank Cushnahan a lot of cash.
:39:41. > :39:46.This time, it was 10,000 euros, in bundles of 20s and tens. Immediately
:39:47. > :39:53.after handing over the money, John Miskelly said the only people who
:39:54. > :39:57.know I give you money is you and me. Frank Cushnahan responded, that was
:39:58. > :40:02.all right. But the cash wasn't the only payment to the two men
:40:03. > :40:08.discussed that day. John Miskelly told Frank Cushnahan
:40:09. > :40:12.that he had paid ?5,000 at Christmas to Gareth Robinson, the First
:40:13. > :40:17.Minister's son. Spotlight understands Frank Cushnahan told
:40:18. > :40:19.Miskelly not to give Gareth Robinson any more money, and said he wasn't
:40:20. > :40:24.involved in what they were discussing. He said that he would
:40:25. > :40:31.give Robinson something out of any refinancing deal. We asked John
:40:32. > :40:34.Miskelly and Gareth Robinson about the alleged payment and their
:40:35. > :40:41.relationship. Gareth Robinson did not respond to us. John Miskelly
:40:42. > :40:47.told us he paid Gareth Robinson for public relations work. This wasn't
:40:48. > :40:53.the first time Cushnahan and Miskelly had talked about paying
:40:54. > :40:55.Gareth Robinson. When they first met at Belfast City Hospital to discuss
:40:56. > :40:59.how Miskelly could get his property back for less than he owed,
:41:00. > :41:04.Cushnahan said he would give Gareth will -- Gareth Robinson a share of
:41:05. > :41:53.the money out of that proposed extraction from Nama.
:41:54. > :41:57.Cushnahan appeared to be concerned about what Gareth Robinson would
:41:58. > :42:37.think of his contact with Miskelly. Of course, the refinancing of John
:42:38. > :42:41.Miskelly's properties never came off. And there is no evidence Gareth
:42:42. > :42:48.Robinson received any money from Frank Cushnahan. The Nama seal was
:42:49. > :42:54.the biggest property deal in Northern Ireland's history. It
:42:55. > :42:58.encompassed the loans behind almost 900 properties. At first, the seal
:42:59. > :43:03.seemed remarkably smooth on the surface. It was endorsed by
:43:04. > :43:06.practically everyone. Nama, the indebted developers and the
:43:07. > :43:14.administrations in Belfast and Dublin. But that changed last year.
:43:15. > :43:16.As we described in our last programme, Ian Coulter, a
:43:17. > :43:21.high-profile lawyer who worked with Frank Cushnahan on the seal,
:43:22. > :43:26.suddenly left his prestigious post at the top of Tughans' law firm.
:43:27. > :43:30.Tughans then reported that Ian Coulter had removed a substantial
:43:31. > :43:35.portion of a fee they got from the Nama seal. More than ?6 million had
:43:36. > :43:40.gone to an offshore account on the Isle of Man. There were big question
:43:41. > :43:45.marks over why millions of pounds from the Nama seal had been moved to
:43:46. > :43:51.the Isle of Man. The Law Society in Belfast began an investigation. And
:43:52. > :43:56.that investigation prompted Frank Cushnahan to start covering his
:43:57. > :44:01.tracks. We know Frank Cushnahan started working for John Miskelly
:44:02. > :44:02.back in 2012 because he said so right after Miskelly gave him
:44:03. > :44:29.?40,000. But that's a lie, according to Nama.
:44:30. > :44:35.They said Cushnahan never told them he was working with Miskelly or any
:44:36. > :44:40.other developer. Being paid by Nama and being paid by one of their
:44:41. > :44:49.debtors was a major conflict-of-interest. The cover-up
:44:50. > :44:55.began last year. At the same time Spotlight started to gather evidence
:44:56. > :44:58.about Frank Cushnahan's role. When we secretly filmed this meeting at a
:44:59. > :45:03.Belfast hotel between Frank Cushnahan and John Miskelly, they
:45:04. > :45:10.were joined by David Gray, an accountant working for Miskelly.
:45:11. > :45:25.Cushnahan showed a bit grey a letter he wanted John Miskelly to sign.
:45:26. > :45:35.But Cushnahan put a false date on the letter so it looks like he only
:45:36. > :45:36.started working for Miskelly in 2014, after he resigned as a Nama
:45:37. > :45:45.adviser. John Miskelly immediately questioned
:45:46. > :46:05.the date on the letter. David Gray, the third man President
:46:06. > :46:11.at this meeting -- present at this meeting said he thought the early
:46:12. > :46:20.date was because the agreement between the two men had been agreed
:46:21. > :46:24.but not formalised earlier. Frank Cushnahan's need to cover his tracks
:46:25. > :46:41.became even more urgent once this happened.
:46:42. > :46:48.Independent TD Mick Wallace claimed the millions of pounds move to the
:46:49. > :46:52.Isle of Man was a payoff for a politician. No actual evidence
:46:53. > :47:10.against a politician has emerged. But the sale came on and Leinster
:47:11. > :47:15.house in Dublin. But it wasn't just politicians combing through the Nama
:47:16. > :47:19.sale. The PSNI asked the National Crime Agency to investigate, and
:47:20. > :47:25.some powerful American agencies, including BFB Ahye, began showing
:47:26. > :47:31.interest in the case. -- including the FBI. A few weeks after the
:47:32. > :47:35.allegations surfaced, Frank Cushnahan went to see John Miskelly
:47:36. > :47:38.while he was getting treatment in the world Victoria Hospital. Frank
:47:39. > :47:56.Cushnahan seemed nervous about the investigations.
:47:57. > :48:06.And it's clear Cushnahan had growing misgivings about John Miskelly. The
:48:07. > :48:10.Irish News had reported that there were 30 hours of recordings that
:48:11. > :48:12.could hold the key to the Nama investigations, and Frank Cushnahan
:48:13. > :48:23.suspected that they belonged to John Miskelly.
:48:24. > :48:28.John Miskelly was telling the truth. The recordings referred to by the
:48:29. > :48:36.Irish News had been made by another businessman, but it was clear
:48:37. > :48:44.Cushnahan felt vulnerable to what Miskelly new. If Frank Cushnahan was
:48:45. > :48:49.suspicious of John Miskelly then, imagine how he felt when he learned
:48:50. > :49:01.that Miskelly was expected to testify at storm -- Stormont. The
:49:02. > :49:09.finance committee which was investigating the Nama scandal
:49:10. > :49:14.interviewed John Miskelly last year. For Frank Zhang, Miskelly's
:49:15. > :49:22.testimony was a catastrophe waiting to happen. Last November, he came
:49:23. > :49:24.back to the royal to discourage John Miskelly from talking to the
:49:25. > :49:45.Stormont committee. Miskelly said he wanted to tell the
:49:46. > :49:47.assembly about his grievances against Nama and the Anglo Irish
:49:48. > :50:20.bank. Then Cushnahan moved onto suggesting
:50:21. > :50:53.how Miskelly should respond to the committee.
:50:54. > :50:57.Cushnahan then got to the nub of the matter, what Miskelly might tell
:50:58. > :51:46.NLAs about payment lee-macro. But it wasn't just the committee
:51:47. > :51:51.that concerned Frank Cushnahan. He had an even bigger worry. What John
:51:52. > :52:02.Miskelly might tell the National Crime Agency.
:52:03. > :52:10.Last October, the same group of people that we secretly recorded at
:52:11. > :52:11.the Hotel lunch, Frank Cushnahan, John Miskelly and accounting David
:52:12. > :52:29.Gray, met again. Frank Zhang's lawyers told us it
:52:30. > :52:34.would be totally inappropriate for him to comment on matters that might
:52:35. > :52:37.be part of the National Crime Agency's investigation, but that is
:52:38. > :52:41.clearly not how he felt at this meeting, because he started to coach
:52:42. > :52:47.John Miskelly about what to say to detect did from the NCA. The
:52:48. > :53:23.conversation took place in a busy hospital canteen.
:53:24. > :53:29.And when it came to the question of payments, Cushnahan made it clear he
:53:30. > :53:51.wanted Miskelly to lie to police. Cushnahan had received bags full of
:53:52. > :53:52.cash from John Miskelly, but here he was telling Miskelly to keep that a
:53:53. > :54:31.secret. It is essentially another part of
:54:32. > :54:38.the process of seeking to cover his tracks. He is ensuring that Miskelly
:54:39. > :54:43.knows the score and they are singing of the same hymn sheet should be NCA
:54:44. > :54:48.arrive on the doorstep. We have asked Frank Cushnahan about the
:54:49. > :54:53.material in all the recordings play tonight. Last week his employer said
:54:54. > :54:57.he would not be providing any further responses because of the
:54:58. > :55:00.ongoing MCA investigation, and because he is contemplating legal
:55:01. > :55:07.proceedings against the BBC. -- his lawyer said.
:55:08. > :55:16.More than a year has gone by since serious questions were first asked
:55:17. > :55:23.about the sale known as Project Eagle. Somebody was setting up the
:55:24. > :55:26.purchase, is what it appears to me. Do you feel, Mr McDonald, that you
:55:27. > :55:33.might have been set up in any way? No.
:55:34. > :55:36.The wait for answers looks like it will go on much longer. The National
:55:37. > :55:39.Crime Agency arrested two people on suspicion of fraud at the end of
:55:40. > :55:44.May, almost 11 months into the investigation. Those people were
:55:45. > :55:49.quietly released from police bail over the summer. No further action
:55:50. > :55:55.has been taken against them, though the NCA says the investigation
:55:56. > :55:58.remains active. The only political casualties has
:55:59. > :56:12.been the chairman of Stormont's inquiry into the affair. Sinn Fein
:56:13. > :56:21.MLA Dave Mackay resigned from the assembly -- Daithi McKay resigned.
:56:22. > :56:24.There have been persistent recalls for an inquiry into the Nama sale.
:56:25. > :56:30.So far the Irish government has resisted. The Republic's authorities
:56:31. > :56:33.say an inquiry should not happen until the National Crime Agency
:56:34. > :56:36.investigation in Northern Ireland is complete, but much of the evidence
:56:37. > :56:43.we have revealed tonight points to breaches of southern law, breaches
:56:44. > :56:55.beyond the powers of the NCA. John Merrick and -- McGuinness looked at
:56:56. > :57:15.our evidence. I presume that that was a
:57:16. > :57:26.transaction of 40,000 in cash for some reason or other. I just think
:57:27. > :57:33.that that piece played their shows you how incorrect, how unlawful, all
:57:34. > :57:38.of this seems to have been. Now the finance committee chairman says
:57:39. > :57:42.Spotlight's evidence means a radical new approach is required on both
:57:43. > :57:47.sides of the border. I think that if you were to tell anybody the story
:57:48. > :57:52.without the audio or without the presentation of documents, they
:57:53. > :57:58.would find it extremely difficult to believe. You have to actually listen
:57:59. > :58:06.to the audio. You have to read the documents. And it's only then that
:58:07. > :58:10.the shock begins to setting as to what was really happening in
:58:11. > :58:17.Northern Ireland regarding Project Eagle. Two months ago he voted
:58:18. > :58:22.against a commission of inquiry. What is your opinion now? This goes
:58:23. > :58:27.beyond just a commission of inquiry in the South. If you had an all
:58:28. > :58:30.Ireland commission of inquiry, then you will get a clear picture. It is
:58:31. > :58:38.now quite obvious from the meeting in the hospital, from the sharing of
:58:39. > :58:42.confidential information, from Nama, and all of the other activity mixed
:58:43. > :58:48.in with it that that cross-border effort must be made to get to the
:58:49. > :58:53.end of this and to get to the truth, and for people to face the
:58:54. > :58:56.consequences of their actions. In the absence of an effective
:58:57. > :59:01.mechanism for getting to the truth, there is a danger that criminal
:59:02. > :59:02.investigations will stall, caught between conflicting justice systems
:59:03. > :59:06.north and south.