:00:22. > :00:32.hello and welcome to Spotlight special, where our studio audience
:00:33. > :00:36.put questions to our panel of politicians on the week's main
:00:37. > :00:41.talking points. How guests tonight are Gavin Robinson, the DUP MP for
:00:42. > :00:45.West Belfast, the leader of the SDLP, the Sinn Fein Brexit spokesman
:00:46. > :00:50.in the assembly, John O'Dowd, Mike Nesbitt, the Ulster Unionist Party
:00:51. > :00:53.do, and the acting leader of the Alliance party, and fully expected
:00:54. > :00:56.to be elected leader very soon, unless it all goes wrong tonight,
:00:57. > :01:02.Naomi! I'm sure it won't. That is our panel tonight's Spotlight
:01:03. > :01:06.special. And you at home can take part. This is how you can get in
:01:07. > :01:12.touch with your thoughts. Textual, throughout the programme: Texts will
:01:13. > :01:19.be charged at your standard rate. Or you can phone is: Standard
:01:20. > :01:22.geographic charges from landlines and mobiles will apply.
:01:23. > :01:30.You can also e-mail us and to eat your comments to us using the
:01:31. > :01:34.hashtag SpotlightNI. And you can follow the programme on Twitter. We
:01:35. > :01:38.are at BBCSpotlightNI. The first question tonight is from Rosemary
:01:39. > :01:43.Alistair, a PR consultant. Is Hillary Clinton the lesser of two
:01:44. > :01:47.evils? Well, the election, of course, is on
:01:48. > :01:50.November the 8th. They are supposed to be the two most unpopular
:01:51. > :01:56.candidates in the modern history of the American state, Hillary with a
:01:57. > :02:01.7-point lead currently over Donald Trump in the poll of polls, but it
:02:02. > :02:04.is far from over yet. Have you been following events stateside?
:02:05. > :02:08.I have, and I would have to say, I don't think she is the lesser of two
:02:09. > :02:12.evils. I think she is the better and more qualified of two candidates. I
:02:13. > :02:17.think ultimately, when you want to elect somebody to the most powerful
:02:18. > :02:21.post in the country, you want somebody who has the experience, the
:02:22. > :02:24.gravitas, and the ability to negotiate some fairly complex
:02:25. > :02:28.issues. She is crooked Hillary, for heaven
:02:29. > :02:31.'s sake! According to Donald. Exactly. Well, the world according
:02:32. > :02:35.to Donald is not the world I live in, and most of the people I know
:02:36. > :02:39.would want to live in either. And I have huge respect for Hillary
:02:40. > :02:42.Clinton, and I suspect that she is fighting a number of issues. When he
:02:43. > :02:47.had been in politics for a while, you have a record and it will be
:02:48. > :02:50.held to account for it in the way a fresh face would not be. I think the
:02:51. > :02:56.second thing is, she has all of the things that anyone who has ever been
:02:57. > :02:58.president will have. She is tenacious, determined, ambitious,
:02:59. > :03:02.but when women are those things, it is often seen as a negative, and I
:03:03. > :03:07.think she suffers greatly from that. I personally think she would be a
:03:08. > :03:11.great president. I have to say, I do not believe that Donald Trump would
:03:12. > :03:16.be a great president, but we do not know who will be in the White House,
:03:17. > :03:18.and he may well prove as all wrong. Good Hillary or Donald of the
:03:19. > :03:23.groper? Well, it is a matter for the
:03:24. > :03:28.American people. I believe that Donald Trump's comments about
:03:29. > :03:33.everybody who is not a white, rich, American are disgraceful, and I
:03:34. > :03:36.would not endorse them in any way. But the American people will decide
:03:37. > :03:38.who leads them. If you live there, would you vote
:03:39. > :03:42.for him? I don't live there.
:03:43. > :03:48.Oh, come on, everybody has a view. Given his comments, as I am worried
:03:49. > :03:52.about everybody who is not a white, rich American and a male, I would
:03:53. > :03:56.not vote for him. But the American people must make these decisions.
:03:57. > :04:00.The American electoral system, to me, requires radical reform. When
:04:01. > :04:03.you end up with a constant presidential election campaign
:04:04. > :04:07.between the two main parties, with very little ideological difference
:04:08. > :04:12.between them in terms of policy, I think it is worrying for democracy
:04:13. > :04:16.in general. But we will see what comes out of the other side.
:04:17. > :04:18.So, Hillary is the lesser of two evils, according to you?
:04:19. > :04:23.Well, you are trying to put words in my mouth.
:04:24. > :04:28.You could answer the question. Whoever comes out the other side of
:04:29. > :04:33.the American election, presidential election campaign, we want them to
:04:34. > :04:37.have a huge interest in Ireland, in the peace process and the economy
:04:38. > :04:41.and our future. So there are a lot of things you could say, but I'm not
:04:42. > :04:45.going to, because I want to ensure that all the parties around this
:04:46. > :04:49.table, the executive, have access to the most powerful people in the
:04:50. > :04:53.world, and that we can rely on them to support us if and when we need.
:04:54. > :05:01.I can as bit, Northern Ireland has something of a special relationship
:05:02. > :05:05.with Hillary, and all that, but does that blind us to her false?
:05:06. > :05:10.No, I don't think it should, but if you are looking at one candidate
:05:11. > :05:12.against the other, what I think is extraordinary is that Donald Trump
:05:13. > :05:16.has not moderated his views since he became the candidate, and he has not
:05:17. > :05:20.tried to broaden his appeal beyond a very specific base. But that
:05:21. > :05:24.actually may turn out to be a very good thing, because that may well be
:05:25. > :05:30.what costs in the election, and from our point of view...
:05:31. > :05:33.Wins in the election! I think it is just too narrow a base.
:05:34. > :05:37.Hillary Clinton is somebody who has invested a lot in Northern Ireland,
:05:38. > :05:40.not just the Americans, but the Clinton family have invested a lot
:05:41. > :05:47.in the peace process here. I was with her envoy earlier this morning,
:05:48. > :05:50.Senator Gary Hart, and naturally being a Democrat, he is incredibly
:05:51. > :05:54.disturbed at the prospect of somebody like Donald Trump
:05:55. > :06:00.representing an ideal that is the modern America. So, yes, while
:06:01. > :06:04.Hillary Clinton has her faults, she has made a mistake and been very
:06:05. > :06:06.open about it, I think she would be the better candidate, and you would
:06:07. > :06:11.certainly be a lot better for us here in Northern Ireland.
:06:12. > :06:15.People have a habit of growing into the office, which is granted to
:06:16. > :06:19.them. I mean, look at Ronald Reagan, for example. Everyone thought, what
:06:20. > :06:23.a disaster, a Hollywood actor in the White House. Do you think Donald
:06:24. > :06:25.Trump, were he to be elected, could become a president people would
:06:26. > :06:32.respect? No. Donald Trump is not somebody...
:06:33. > :06:37.Well, he is no Ronald Reagan. I had difficulties with Ronald Reagan. I
:06:38. > :06:41.new Ronald Reagan, Senator! Exactly. What hears is someone who
:06:42. > :06:45.has more respect for Vladimir Putin than Barack Obama. That is good
:06:46. > :06:48.enough for me to understand that he is not a very suitable person.
:06:49. > :06:53.Well, he respects the strength of leadership that Putin shows. Some
:06:54. > :06:55.say America needs that kind of leadership.
:06:56. > :06:58.Well, I don't think Donald Trump is a leader. We should not take this
:06:59. > :07:04.very lightly. He is somebody who has talked openly and closed about
:07:05. > :07:10.sexually assaulting women. That is who Donald Trump is, and he is
:07:11. > :07:12.somebody that will destroy the reputation of America.
:07:13. > :07:16.Locker room talk? It is not locker room talk to talk
:07:17. > :07:19.about women like that. He will destroy the reputation of America
:07:20. > :07:22.and is already doing that, around the world, and that is very
:07:23. > :07:25.dangerous for here and the world. Hillary Clinton has been a great
:07:26. > :07:27.supporter of Northern Ireland, a great supporter of our peace
:07:28. > :07:30.process. But that does not mean she would be
:07:31. > :07:33.a good leader of America. I think she will be. I don't agree
:07:34. > :07:39.with everything she does or says, many of her foreign policy, but I
:07:40. > :07:43.have much more faith in here than that other person, and I don't think
:07:44. > :07:46.this is funny. This is a very, very serious thing, and I think the
:07:47. > :07:50.American people will see through it. We should not take it for granted.
:07:51. > :07:53.If anyone has relatives in America, they should be getting on the phone
:07:54. > :07:57.to them and telling them what the world thinks of Donald Trump,
:07:58. > :08:00.because that is very important. Anyone support Donald Trump in the
:08:01. > :08:04.audience tonight? Go ahead, please. I would like to
:08:05. > :08:09.know, would you be prepared to work him when he is elected?
:08:10. > :08:13.Sorry, just a little louder. Will you work with him when he is
:08:14. > :08:17.elected? Well, I think John O'Dowd said he
:08:18. > :08:22.would, but what about you, Gavin? I suspect that if he ever wins, we
:08:23. > :08:26.will work with them -- whoever wins. But I don't think it is a choice, I
:08:27. > :08:30.think it is a huge dilemma for the people of the United States of
:08:31. > :08:36.America. I think they're a huge drawbacks with both, but if you
:08:37. > :08:39.listen to the thereat Barossa T of the campaign of Donald Trump, and
:08:40. > :08:43.yet he is only seven points behind. All that has been thrown at him, all
:08:44. > :08:47.the criticism that has been levelled at him, this is not just a small,
:08:48. > :08:51.narrow base supporting Donald Trump. This is a huge swathe of the
:08:52. > :08:57.American electorate. Part of me says that is worrying. The other worrying
:08:58. > :09:01.thing is, Hillary Clinton wins. The last 40 years in the land of
:09:02. > :09:04.opportunity has been dominated by two families. Had Jeb Bush beat
:09:05. > :09:06.Donald Trump on the Republican primaries, it would have been
:09:07. > :09:10.guaranteed that the bar from Barack Obama's eight years, we have had 40
:09:11. > :09:14.years of uninterrupted control by two powerful families. That does not
:09:15. > :09:16.suggest it is the land of opportunity that we are led to
:09:17. > :09:20.respect. But is that partly why Arnold Trump
:09:21. > :09:28.has attracted the support, because it is seen that he is the to hell
:09:29. > :09:32.with the rest of you candidate, he is not part of the Washington
:09:33. > :09:34.bubble, but will do it his way? Absolutely, and I think we're
:09:35. > :09:39.turning politics on its head in the state, same as in the UK, as someone
:09:40. > :09:44.said, or across the EU, with many candidates who are to the extreme
:09:45. > :09:47.right or left succeeding. The other interesting thing is, Donald Trump
:09:48. > :09:50.and Hillary Clinton have both turned on their head what we recognise to
:09:51. > :09:54.be Republican and Democratic politics. The Republican party will
:09:55. > :09:57.be seen as an interventionist party, whereas Donald Trump is an
:09:58. > :10:01.isolationist. Hillary Clinton is very much an interventionist,
:10:02. > :10:04.someone who during her time in the state Department took action across
:10:05. > :10:07.the world, whereas that would not necessarily be the Democratic view,
:10:08. > :10:11.nor the view endorsed by Bernie Sanders. So both of them are turning
:10:12. > :10:17.politics on their heads. You a drum supporter?
:10:18. > :10:20.No! I did want to say, I am American, and I don't want to speak
:10:21. > :10:24.under half of the American people. We feel your pain.
:10:25. > :10:28.Yes! It is unfair, but I think there is a lesson here, in that yes, they
:10:29. > :10:31.are two of the most hated candidates for president, but they were elected
:10:32. > :10:34.by one third of eligible voters, said two thirds of the American
:10:35. > :10:38.people said our vote does not matter. Clearly it does, and I think
:10:39. > :10:43.that is a lesson for the world. That is democracy. Any Trump
:10:44. > :10:50.supporters? Did you have your hand up? Yes, sir. Go ahead.
:10:51. > :10:54.You know, in all fairness and honesty, I understand the way people
:10:55. > :11:00.view Donald Trump. They have got a great deal of disdain towards him,
:11:01. > :11:05.his comments were very misogynistic, they were vituperative, but they are
:11:06. > :11:10.just comments. They are just comments, and I am not trying to
:11:11. > :11:16.placate or excuse them, but when you look back from 1993 to 2001, Bill
:11:17. > :11:21.Clinton physically abused the presidency of the United States.
:11:22. > :11:23.Yes, but Bill Clinton is not running for president. I think it is
:11:24. > :11:30.unfortunate... APPLAUSE
:11:31. > :11:33.Hillary is her own person, and I are happy for people to attack her
:11:34. > :11:37.record, but I think to attack her for her husband's behaviour.
:11:38. > :11:42.They do attack her for her response to that. She is accused of bullying
:11:43. > :11:45.some of these women. Well, they say that, but Donald
:11:46. > :11:49.Trump, it is not just words. He has made it clear that he was bragging
:11:50. > :11:54.and boasting about having assaulted women, so it is not just words, it
:11:55. > :11:58.is the action that lies behind those words, and for me to say it is
:11:59. > :12:02.locker room talk or just how men are, actually does a disservice to
:12:03. > :12:06.most of the men that I know, because they are better than that, in fact.
:12:07. > :12:10.I wanted to ask you, Mike, because you have been an athlete, a rugby
:12:11. > :12:13.player, sports man. Did you ever hear talk like that in the locker
:12:14. > :12:23.room? Not sure I did. No, I don't remember talk like that,
:12:24. > :12:25.actually, and I know you say these are just comments, but this man is a
:12:26. > :12:28.politician, and surely our comments define who we are. They reveal our
:12:29. > :12:32.values, and our thoughts on life. Can you really support that?
:12:33. > :12:35.Well, you know, in all fairness, again, I am not excusing them, but
:12:36. > :12:42.he was not really a politician back then, and with regard to attacking
:12:43. > :12:46.her record... He is a human being. Does that not
:12:47. > :12:48.tell you about his values as a human being?
:12:49. > :12:51.Well, certainly does, yes. I want to bring in John O'Dowd
:12:52. > :12:55.quickly. I think it reflects a broader change
:12:56. > :12:59.in politics across the Western world, a politics based on fear and
:13:00. > :13:06.extremism. I was recently in America, in New York, in Manhattan,
:13:07. > :13:09.and I have to say, I was shocked at the scale of poverty I witnessed on
:13:10. > :13:12.the streets of New York. In the early morning, when going to the
:13:13. > :13:17.train station, the shop fronts were full of people sleeping. There are
:13:18. > :13:22.people in wheelchairs out at night sleeping, people looking through
:13:23. > :13:27.bins for food. I went for a coffee the afternoon before I left the
:13:28. > :13:31.airport, and in a plaza just seventh Ave, it was full of poverty.
:13:32. > :13:34.We'll either of them fixed that, is the question?
:13:35. > :13:40.Donald Trump and others play on the fears of people who society have
:13:41. > :13:45.left behind. He talked about immigration and he talks about other
:13:46. > :13:47.issues and tries to blame are the poverty that has been imposed, the
:13:48. > :13:59.economic policies he would support. Let us go to our second question,
:14:00. > :14:04.from a company director. Do you believe that paramilitaries
:14:05. > :14:08.organisations have a role in a local community groups. This will be
:14:09. > :14:13.relating to the Charter organisation that has been linked to loyalist
:14:14. > :14:22.paramilitaries, they got ?2 million of social investment funding to help
:14:23. > :14:28.promote 300 jobs. A DUP spokesperson said Phil checks had been carried
:14:29. > :14:31.out and a robust business case made. Martin McGuinness has said it is
:14:32. > :14:36.cheap point-scoring to talk about the links between money like that
:14:37. > :14:38.going to groups who have links to paramilitaries but surely people
:14:39. > :14:41.have a right to know where their money is going and it should not be
:14:42. > :14:49.going to people with paramilitary links? Should paramilitary groups be
:14:50. > :14:52.connected with community groups? We should not have paramilitaries
:14:53. > :14:55.groups on our streets. They should remove the infrastructure from our
:14:56. > :14:59.communities and allow communities to develop. If there are individuals of
:15:00. > :15:03.the laws paramilitary organisations who want to contribute to the
:15:04. > :15:06.community they can do so out with the structures of the paramilitary
:15:07. > :15:11.organisations. As regards the question and idea specific group I
:15:12. > :15:15.understand that as Assembly Member sitting on the board of directors,
:15:16. > :15:18.business people sitting on the board of directors, members of statutory
:15:19. > :15:22.agencies sitting on the board of directors, former political
:15:23. > :15:26.prisoners sitting on the board of directors. Former political
:15:27. > :15:32.prisoners are a reality of our life and many of them have come out of
:15:33. > :15:34.prison, gone back into their communities, and contributed
:15:35. > :15:37.significantly to the community well-being and peace building that
:15:38. > :15:41.has gone on in Irish society so because somebody is an ex-political
:15:42. > :15:47.prisoner I am not going to label them with another label. But
:15:48. > :15:52.publicly sever all links. People have information that there is
:15:53. > :15:55.public money going to paramilitary groups they should bring that
:15:56. > :15:59.information. The Chief Constable said there is a schizophrenia alone,
:16:00. > :16:04.there are people who are community leaders by day, but at night they
:16:05. > :16:07.where a parallel to the barge or carry something on the lapel. He is
:16:08. > :16:15.not pointing fingers at anybody in particular. He is pointing out there
:16:16. > :16:20.is a big problem. It is time for a line in the sand. It is time for
:16:21. > :16:24.sanctions. It is 22 years since the ceasefire. Why on earth are
:16:25. > :16:28.paramilitary organisation still in existence? I know that the
:16:29. > :16:32.individuals who properly then, a lot of them are still around. We cannot
:16:33. > :16:36.expect them all to pop the clogs over the last couple of decades.
:16:37. > :16:40.They had down the years demonstrated huge energy and commitment in the
:16:41. > :16:45.most awful week, illegal week, killing, maiming, destroying our
:16:46. > :16:48.economy, but some of them still have energy and commitment, and I think
:16:49. > :16:51.as politicians it is a duty to try and encourage them to use that
:16:52. > :16:56.energy positively for the benefit of the community, and where they do
:16:57. > :17:00.that, for example in my constituency in Strangford, I will help them if
:17:01. > :17:04.they are genuine. But if they are trying to use that energy in a
:17:05. > :17:10.negative way, in terms of controlling the communities... Do
:17:11. > :17:14.you see evidence of that? Do you know people who are community
:17:15. > :17:19.leaders by day and paramilitaries by night? I know people who are using
:17:20. > :17:23.that energy to control communities negatively underlined their back
:17:24. > :17:26.pockets. There is also the image of drying pitch is damaging our
:17:27. > :17:31.international reputation. The people who do that need to be told there is
:17:32. > :17:35.a line and the sand and you are just about to cross it and there must be
:17:36. > :17:38.sanctions. That is what has been missing for the last 22 years.
:17:39. > :17:44.Sanctions for those who will not play the game. Arlene Foster threes
:17:45. > :17:49.of differently, she talked about a fork in the road, she wants to take
:17:50. > :17:52.people out of society if they are paramilitaries, but also offer
:17:53. > :17:57.people the chance to change. But surely that fought in the road
:17:58. > :18:02.should have come a long time ago? Without question but the truth is we
:18:03. > :18:05.were still, and still do today, have people who are wedded to
:18:06. > :18:08.paramilitary organisations. Regrettably some are still
:18:09. > :18:14.benefiting incredibly well from crime, from destroying their local
:18:15. > :18:18.community. The basis on which the First Minister was talking about was
:18:19. > :18:23.the fresh start Agreement. For those who want to play a constructive
:18:24. > :18:27.role, for those who have an ambition to raise aspiration in the local
:18:28. > :18:29.community where previously there has been none, there will be a path open
:18:30. > :18:48.to them. We have this Charter NI, the man at the top
:18:49. > :18:51.is linked to paramilitary organisations. The man you are
:18:52. > :18:56.talking about is playing an important role in our community. He
:18:57. > :19:00.is chief executive of an organisation transforming lives in
:19:01. > :19:04.East Belfast. The answer to the question as, no paramilitary
:19:05. > :19:07.organisation should be involved in Trinity groups. But when you have
:19:08. > :19:10.individuals who are prepared to set aside their past, their history,
:19:11. > :19:16.mistakes that they have made, and want to have a positive contribution
:19:17. > :19:19.to our society, it is incumbent on all political leaders to make sure
:19:20. > :19:24.that that space is therefore there. But that does satisfy ourselves with
:19:25. > :19:27.Republic money is going. The social investment fund is not politicians
:19:28. > :19:32.doubling money to groups, it is stealing groups made up of our local
:19:33. > :19:36.community deciding for themselves, what other challengers, and in this
:19:37. > :19:40.particular case, employment is the genesis of the thrust of the
:19:41. > :19:43.programme. Saw employment opportunities, what we want to
:19:44. > :19:46.create, there is an organisation which is great relationships with
:19:47. > :19:50.statutory agencies, it is renowned for delivering on projects in the
:19:51. > :19:54.past. Despite the criticisms about the social investment fund and the
:19:55. > :19:57.many uses it took to get some of these schemes progress, it was
:19:58. > :20:02.because we were satisfying ourselves about the velocity of the groups,
:20:03. > :20:09.regarding corporate governance and finance. And having gone through
:20:10. > :20:14.cheque after check... Let me take Naomi Long first. Go to the stealing
:20:15. > :20:20.groups. The stealing groups are made up of members of the local
:20:21. > :20:25.communities who were appointed. The prodigal members are there as of
:20:26. > :20:30.right but the other members were appointed by Sinn Fein and the DUP.
:20:31. > :20:43.The management organisations were also appointed by OFMDFM. No other
:20:44. > :20:47.organisation had a gratuity to bid for this money. This money was taken
:20:48. > :20:51.from Department of employment and learning and development who were
:20:52. > :20:58.engaged in deprived communities, engaged in dealing with economic
:20:59. > :21:01.disadvantage, it is crucial, it is taken away from most apparent in
:21:02. > :21:06.that responsibility because they would not simply give it to the
:21:07. > :21:13.people of choice for Sinn Fein and the DUP. That is the history. The
:21:14. > :21:18.Bottom Line in this there is no paramilitary organisations do not
:21:19. > :21:21.have a role in community organisations but there are
:21:22. > :21:26.questions not just report shows but for the police, the Chief Constable
:21:27. > :21:29.is saying that people are community workers by day and paramilitaries by
:21:30. > :21:34.night that it begs the question of why action is not being taken on
:21:35. > :21:37.that. He talks about the need for a pragmatism. I think that is the need
:21:38. > :21:42.for a restoration of confidence in the rule of law. There may well be
:21:43. > :21:45.issues around resource. There may be issues around evidence but the
:21:46. > :21:49.police should be clear that when it comes to them if they are saying
:21:50. > :21:53.that people are breaking the law they should be actively pursuing
:21:54. > :21:56.them for that. And ensuring that communities are protectors because
:21:57. > :22:01.the reality on the ground is that these are not people simply with a
:22:02. > :22:06.past, a number of these individuals are paramilitaries in the present.
:22:07. > :22:10.And that is not acceptable. We need to get away from that. I am not
:22:11. > :22:15.making allegations but individual organisations. I will tell you why.
:22:16. > :22:20.There are good people who work in those organisations who deserve
:22:21. > :22:25.credit for what they deliver. But we had to ask questions. We have to
:22:26. > :22:29.ask. Do you know what? Of course they should have the money if the
:22:30. > :22:32.bid for it against other organisations in our fair and open
:22:33. > :22:37.competition, not because they cause the up to the political
:22:38. > :22:48.establishment. Give us a list of groups that you believe... This has
:22:49. > :22:55.gone on over many years. It is now up to the political parties... I am
:22:56. > :22:58.happy to give an example. When Stephen Farry was the Minister for
:22:59. > :23:04.employment and learning he was approached by the First Minister and
:23:05. > :23:07.Deputy first bluster and was offered ?7 million for a project to deal
:23:08. > :23:13.with educational attainment with young people. In Loyalist
:23:14. > :23:19.backgrounds. In Loyalist backgrounds. The money had to go to
:23:20. > :23:24.Charter NI, not an open competition, but to that one organisation. He
:23:25. > :23:27.declined that offer and said that he would run a proper process that any
:23:28. > :23:31.organisation with the right to dental is good practice at as part
:23:32. > :23:36.of that Charter NI got a small amount of funding as did other
:23:37. > :23:39.organisations. I object to due process not being followed and I
:23:40. > :23:47.object to people getting preferential treatment. Naomi Long
:23:48. > :23:50.is right, of course people with a past should be involved in the
:23:51. > :23:54.future. I worked with people with that past every single day. Of
:23:55. > :23:57.course they should have a future but that does not mean that you continue
:23:58. > :24:02.to be an active member of a paramilitary organisation. It does
:24:03. > :24:05.not mean that we can continue to feed young people with drugs and bit
:24:06. > :24:08.and forced them into situations where they end up taking their own
:24:09. > :24:13.lives. That is what is happening in our communities. So is the chief
:24:14. > :24:18.Consul's pragmatism just a copout? There comes a time when society very
:24:19. > :24:22.hard to see put your guns down, put your drugs away, you are not part of
:24:23. > :24:26.our society and we will not play due to be part of our society. It is not
:24:27. > :24:30.good enough. I will not make accusations of individuals. There
:24:31. > :24:34.are plenty of them. You do not think there is a fine line to be drawn as
:24:35. > :24:38.people move from one might to another, he one should they be
:24:39. > :24:42.allowed? I think they have had enough time. We should not throw a
:24:43. > :24:47.good public money after bad. There are fantastic organisations working
:24:48. > :24:50.across our communities, many of them are involved with and are led by
:24:51. > :24:53.people who used to be involved in paramilitary organisations. They
:24:54. > :24:57.give it up. The decided that I can to do was to move forward. There are
:24:58. > :24:59.some people who are still involved and are bragging about it and I
:25:00. > :25:05.getting public money. That leads to stop. It should not be acceptable in
:25:06. > :25:08.2016. Gentleman in the second row. Regardless of all that.
:25:09. > :25:11.Paramilitaries well and still do have quite a sweet on communities
:25:12. > :25:16.within Northern Ireland. What I am asking is how can we get them to act
:25:17. > :25:22.positively? How can we get them to stop acting negatively? How can you
:25:23. > :25:28.push them to start acting positively? So they can work with
:25:29. > :25:33.the community? How can we ever justify giving ?1.7 million to any
:25:34. > :25:36.of these groups and at time of austerity when our public services
:25:37. > :25:40.are being absolutely decimated? There are mental health day centres
:25:41. > :25:44.closing down, nursing homes closing down, we have heard during the week
:25:45. > :25:48.that children in special needs schools are being deprived classroom
:25:49. > :25:55.assistants because of lack of funding. This made me wonder what
:25:56. > :26:02.are the society's priorities. Who do you persuade, force, people who are
:26:03. > :26:09.still involved in to give it up? They have the choice. The either
:26:10. > :26:12.abides by what we abide by as peaceful and democratic law abiding
:26:13. > :26:16.citizens or they do not and they do not it is a matter for George
:26:17. > :26:20.Hamilton and the police service. It does inject positivity. You would
:26:21. > :26:23.think money was going to paramilitary organisations. It is
:26:24. > :26:25.not, it is going to deliver the agencies and our community who are
:26:26. > :26:31.succeeding in what they do. The first process was for a Dr 's
:26:32. > :26:38.surgery which sits on the perimeter of short Strand, used by residents
:26:39. > :26:40.of the Newton Road and the Short Strand community, so investment in
:26:41. > :26:46.committee health, an important bearing, and I am glad that this
:26:47. > :26:50.programme was able to support it. Next scheme, in the prison community
:26:51. > :26:56.Centre. You will know the area and the issues with bonfires in July.
:26:57. > :27:02.This community has not had investment for 30 years. They got
:27:03. > :27:05.temporary Portakabins 30 years ago and he litters, ground up, a
:27:06. > :27:08.community scheme, they are getting a new building for a group that does
:27:09. > :27:11.not cut ties of paramilitaries but is doing great work in our
:27:12. > :27:20.community. Other thoughts from the audience? Picking up your points in
:27:21. > :27:24.respect of investment, I wonder what the panel thinks of the continued
:27:25. > :27:29.scourge of suicides in our society at a time when mental health funding
:27:30. > :27:35.is being cut short? That is too much off topic in the time that we have.
:27:36. > :27:42.Any other points on that? OK. Let us move on to question three which is
:27:43. > :27:47.from a teacher. I live on the border. He will Brexit affect my
:27:48. > :27:55.life and prospects? That is a very good question. You could be a
:27:56. > :27:59.remain, a denier, whatever, there is so much going on, does anybody know
:28:00. > :28:07.what is really going on? Mike Nesbitt, who will that person's
:28:08. > :28:11.might be affected by Brexit? Nobody knows. Everything is uncertain. 23rd
:28:12. > :28:16.of June has opened an era of uncertainty which will last at least
:28:17. > :28:21.five years, and maybe ten. It depends whether we are going to
:28:22. > :28:25.remain within the single market, within the customs union. These are
:28:26. > :28:30.things that we have not answered. But I can tell you that you and
:28:31. > :28:34.Northern Ireland will be the most affected nation and region of the UK
:28:35. > :28:38.by this decision and yet our executive is the least prepared. The
:28:39. > :28:45.UK Government has a new ministry with a set -- with the Secretary of
:28:46. > :28:51.State for Brexit, Scotland has an advisory panel, even the UUP has an
:28:52. > :28:56.advisory panel, the executive has nothing. When David Davis came over
:28:57. > :29:03.to speak to the executive he had to have two meetings. He had to meet
:29:04. > :29:06.the DUP and Sinn Fein separately. A divided House has no leverage in
:29:07. > :29:11.negotiations and we have to decide what our policy options? From that
:29:12. > :29:15.they have to decide what our priorities are. Crucially we have to
:29:16. > :29:18.figure out whether those priorities complement or clash with the UK's
:29:19. > :29:24.overall priorities because where they clash we have a huge problem.
:29:25. > :29:30.You have lost me already, it is so complicated! You are wanting special
:29:31. > :29:34.treatment in Northern Ireland and the assembly yesterday, but it is
:29:35. > :29:36.really nonsense. Why should Northern Ireland have special treatment?
:29:37. > :29:41.It is not nonsense. I live on the border too, on a city surrounded on
:29:42. > :29:51.three sides by the border. I think we'll remember how those of us who
:29:52. > :29:57.voted to remain on the -- felt on the morning of the 24th. People in
:29:58. > :29:59.our city were devastated, because we understood the real detrimental
:30:00. > :30:02.effect this would have on all others. Anyone who tries to tally
:30:03. > :30:05.there are real great opportunities from Brexit, they are not telling
:30:06. > :30:10.you the truth. We are facing a very, very difficult economic time and a
:30:11. > :30:12.very difficult political time as well ahead.
:30:13. > :30:16.But you can't deny that there may be some opportunities?
:30:17. > :30:19.But I don't know what they are. Well, we had the Northern Ireland
:30:20. > :30:23.Food And Drink Association saying that while there were certainly
:30:24. > :30:25.problems for the food industry, there could be opportunities for
:30:26. > :30:28.exports to England, because you would not have the problems of the
:30:29. > :30:30.euro or the single market. The English market right there for the
:30:31. > :30:34.taking. Our job is to make sure we get the
:30:35. > :30:37.best possible result of the people here who are so badly affected by
:30:38. > :30:41.it. I want us to remain as members of the EU. We are still fighting to
:30:42. > :30:45.do that. But that is a lost battle!
:30:46. > :30:50.Just let me finish. At the very least, we need to have access to the
:30:51. > :30:53.single market, we need to have the ability to move around this island
:30:54. > :30:58.and move around the European Union as freely as we need to, because
:30:59. > :31:01.people are telling us, everybody is saying, to reason they said it
:31:02. > :31:10.today, in the letter we eventually got out of the executive, thank you
:31:11. > :31:15.very much for that, by the way - Theresea May is is telling us we're
:31:16. > :31:19.not going to return to the borders of the past. No one is saying about
:31:20. > :31:24.largely look like. Because in my view, this referendum is about
:31:25. > :31:27.immigration, therefore, the British nation will have to control their
:31:28. > :31:30.borders. They should not be allowed to do it on the island of Ireland.
:31:31. > :31:34.If they want to do it, let them do it at airports in Britain. That is
:31:35. > :31:37.where this is going. We need to maintain the freedom of movement and
:31:38. > :31:40.freedom to trade within the European Union.
:31:41. > :31:44.Couple of questions, was there a separate meeting with David Davis?
:31:45. > :31:48.He had four meetings in Northern Ireland, with various ministers.
:31:49. > :31:51.He met with the First Minister, he met with the finance minister, he
:31:52. > :31:55.met with the economy minister, and he met with the agriculture
:31:56. > :31:58.minister. He had four separate meetings.
:31:59. > :32:04.But not one meeting that Sinn Fein and... There was no meeting which
:32:05. > :32:06.involve members of the DUP on Sinn Fein to discuss policy?
:32:07. > :32:11.What the British government did get whenever the opposition parties were
:32:12. > :32:17.running around, chasing their tails, they got an agreed position from the
:32:18. > :32:21.Northern Ireland executive. Are you incapable of reading the
:32:22. > :32:28.letter? Was published. It identifies five areas of concern.
:32:29. > :32:32.No vision. While many were saying we want to
:32:33. > :32:35.see this happen, the UK is leaving the EU, and for as long as you go
:32:36. > :32:40.around saying this disastrous, this is going to be catastrophic, and so
:32:41. > :32:42.on, there are some of us... We said that before the referendum
:32:43. > :32:45.as well. There are some others in politics or
:32:46. > :32:48.want to make sure the Northern Ireland succeed. There are some in
:32:49. > :32:52.politics here, recognising that there are issues in Northern Ireland
:32:53. > :32:55.and issues with our relationship with the Republic, have a job of
:32:56. > :33:00.work to do, and I am pleased that not only are we committed to that,
:33:01. > :33:05.Sinn Fein are committed to that, CBI yesterday, very important statement
:33:06. > :33:08.from them, and the Food And Drinks Association, saying it is not the
:33:09. > :33:12.result they wanted, but here is what we can do for Northern Ireland, so
:33:13. > :33:16.we're saying, small businesses affected by regulation, what did
:33:17. > :33:19.they say yesterday? We would like to have equalisation and harmonisation
:33:20. > :33:22.of regulation that the good of business. Now we have the ability,
:33:23. > :33:33.let's get rid of the regulations and red tape. We had this letter...
:33:34. > :33:39.People in England voted to leave. Happily through positive engagement,
:33:40. > :33:40.the Secretary of State for Northern Ireland has said it is not known to
:33:41. > :33:43.happen. You wanted to happen. You seem wish
:33:44. > :33:46.it so. Do you want it to happen?
:33:47. > :33:53.You wanted to happen. You argue for a Brexit. How is it going to work?
:33:54. > :33:58.All right, let's widen the discussion to the other panel
:33:59. > :34:01.members. John O'Dowd, Theresa May has responded to the letter of the
:34:02. > :34:04.First Minister and Deputy First Minister. She has basically said, we
:34:05. > :34:10.feel European, but it is all up for discussion. She wants to encourage
:34:11. > :34:14.low energy prices, structural funds, and not to have a hard border, but
:34:15. > :34:17.no idea how to go about any of it given to put that question to
:34:18. > :34:20.ton-macro too, because I agree with you.
:34:21. > :34:25.It is quite clearly Conservative Cabinet, and Mike has said this, and
:34:26. > :34:27.I want to expand on this point, the Conservative Cabinet do not know
:34:28. > :34:32.what Brexit means. In fact, there is internal feuding
:34:33. > :34:37.considering within the Cabinet, well sourced media reports now suggesting
:34:38. > :34:44.that the Chancellor Mr Hammond is either going to resign or be sacked,
:34:45. > :34:47.because he has identified that the issue around access to the European
:34:48. > :34:53.single market is crucial to the economy of these islands. Your
:34:54. > :34:58.question once know how Brexit will affect them. No one around this
:34:59. > :35:02.panel or anywhere else knows the definite, and that itself can cause
:35:03. > :35:05.an economic shock. But I do know this. Your petrol and diesel costs
:35:06. > :35:11.have risen by ?27 a month. Your home heating costs have risen by almost
:35:12. > :35:17.?60. Anyone who is on family tax credits as a result the rise of is
:35:18. > :35:21.going to lose up to ?140 a year as a result of the rise in inflation. So,
:35:22. > :35:27.thus far, the impact of Brexit is going to be negative, it is going to
:35:28. > :35:30.impact on peoples incomes, peoples outgoings in terms of shopping and
:35:31. > :35:35.their household budgets. So, what are we going to do about Brexit?
:35:36. > :35:38.Well, it is very difficult for the executive to organise a response
:35:39. > :35:41.when those who are monitoring Brexit in the Westminster have not got a
:35:42. > :35:46.clue what is happening, what way this is going, or how it is going.
:35:47. > :35:50.You should be kicking down the door of number ten!
:35:51. > :35:53.Well, walking in on Monday. The first Deputy First Minister...
:35:54. > :36:00.Forcefully! Settle yourself.
:36:01. > :36:06.The first Deputy First Minister, I am meeting him on Monday.
:36:07. > :36:11.The start of the negotiation process with the British government as to
:36:12. > :36:13.how they respond to Brexit. Our position is quite clear, the vote
:36:14. > :36:17.should be respected and we should be allowed to remain within the EU.
:36:18. > :36:20.That should be what is happening as a result, if democracy means
:36:21. > :36:24.anything, and that has to be the outcome of what we're going.
:36:25. > :36:27.Well, it will not happen, will it? I'm not so sure that there isn't a
:36:28. > :36:32.possibility of special treatment in Northern Ireland. We are a special
:36:33. > :36:37.situation here already, in terms of how we are treated, our
:36:38. > :36:41.constitutional arrangements under the Good Friday Agreement. The EU is
:36:42. > :36:45.an incredibly fragile organisation despite the fact that it is
:36:46. > :36:50.enormous, and it can reach accommodation for many oddities
:36:51. > :36:53.around its borders and how it handles things. So the idea they
:36:54. > :36:55.could come up with special arrangements for Northern Ireland is
:36:56. > :36:58.not beyond cup retention. But then Scotland and Wales would
:36:59. > :37:03.want them! England would want them! The reality of the situation is that
:37:04. > :37:09.we are unique in terms of our current position, so to expect that
:37:10. > :37:12.to continue is not unusual. I have to say, in terms of what
:37:13. > :37:17.people know and don't know, there are some things we do know. We know
:37:18. > :37:22.that it took been learned three and a half years to exit the European
:37:23. > :37:28.Union. -- Greenland. And with due respect to them, their only interest
:37:29. > :37:31.is fish. So by comparison, we have a very complex set of negotiations to
:37:32. > :37:37.undertake in two years, so we know that we are up against a ticking
:37:38. > :37:40.clock. We'll soon know, with all due respect, regardless of what Theresa
:37:41. > :37:44.May has written on her knowledge and letter back to the First Minister
:37:45. > :37:48.and Deputy First Minister, we know what her responses. She set up a
:37:49. > :37:51.Brexit Cabinet did not even bother Secretary of State for Northern
:37:52. > :37:54.Ireland on it, so she has as good as told us that the British government
:37:55. > :37:58.will do what they wish to do and we can lump it. Now, I don't think that
:37:59. > :38:02.is a good message to be sending to the of Northern Ireland. It will
:38:03. > :38:07.affect you at the border, particularly, because whether people
:38:08. > :38:11.like it or not, if we are going to have a differentiation in markets,
:38:12. > :38:15.you will have customs controls. That is unavoidable. If you are going to
:38:16. > :38:19.control immigration, you have to have immigration controls. Whether
:38:20. > :38:22.those are hard or soft controls, we do not know, but those controls have
:38:23. > :38:26.to exist. I want to go to the floor here.
:38:27. > :38:29.When food costs rise and we get inflation, we know that banks
:38:30. > :38:33.control inflation by raising interest rates, so you will pay more
:38:34. > :38:35.for your food, and more for your mortgage.
:38:36. > :38:39.The gentleman here. I want to know, does Brexit make it
:38:40. > :38:42.more likely or an unlikely for unemployed people like myself to get
:38:43. > :38:45.a job. That is a good question. Let me go
:38:46. > :38:50.around everyone. The lady asked if that would affect
:38:51. > :38:54.her at the border. It is already affecting us now. Inflation has gone
:38:55. > :38:57.up. It will affect the Good Friday Agreements, with freedom of
:38:58. > :39:00.movement, and does that mean that people with an Irish passport living
:39:01. > :39:03.in the north of Ireland are going to have to show their pass but when
:39:04. > :39:05.they want to go down to Dublin airport to go on holiday, for
:39:06. > :39:10.example. This gentleman in the middle here?
:39:11. > :39:13.My question is directed more at Mike and Gavin, particularly in light of
:39:14. > :39:16.the well made comments that have been made and the need for Northern
:39:17. > :39:20.Ireland to get as good a deal out of this, and I think perhaps more
:39:21. > :39:23.salient Lee, Naomi's point about where the power in this really lies.
:39:24. > :39:33.Why are you ruling out an all Ireland Summit?
:39:34. > :39:37.And the lady at the back here? A few minutes ago, it was asked what
:39:38. > :39:41.the opportunities were for Brexit, and Mr Eastwood replied he did not
:39:42. > :39:44.know. So why on earth should we listen to him on Brexit?
:39:45. > :39:49.I didn't argue for Brexit. That is why I don't know what the
:39:50. > :39:53.opportunities are. In a second.
:39:54. > :39:56.Does Brexit mean that the proposal for a reduction in corporation tax
:39:57. > :39:59.is now dead in the water? Very, very quickly then, and
:40:00. > :40:02.deployment, employment of this young man here.
:40:03. > :40:05.These issues, employment, corporation tax, which are resolved,
:40:06. > :40:14.and we will have to to the bottom of those. The point I want to make is,
:40:15. > :40:17.it you said if we have a special status, England, Wales and Scotland
:40:18. > :40:21.were wanted. That is fair enough. But so will the Czech Republic,
:40:22. > :40:24.Hungary and Romania. Don't think the rest of the EU nations will sit
:40:25. > :40:26.around and think, we will give the UK a better deal and we are giving
:40:27. > :40:30.ourselves. Your party leader has said she will
:40:31. > :40:34.not take part in the all Ireland Forum, as it would lead to
:40:35. > :40:38.grandstanding. Why not? Is that not a very sensible approach, if there
:40:39. > :40:42.is so much confusion? The summit is going to go ahead. It
:40:43. > :40:50.is up to Kenny, whoever he wants to speak to an invite. But the notion
:40:51. > :40:53.we need and Kenny, to engage on our behalf with civic society in
:40:54. > :40:57.Northern Ireland, is a nonsense. We have nothing to gain from attending
:40:58. > :40:59.this, because we are fully engaged in the North-South ministerial
:41:00. > :41:05.council and the British Irish council, both in the DUP and Sinn
:41:06. > :41:11.Fein and the northern Ireland executive. We have nothing to fear.
:41:12. > :41:16.We have got time for this discussion.
:41:17. > :41:17.Why does the minister for agriculture not engage with the
:41:18. > :41:20.Parliament in this? Let's just stop it right there,
:41:21. > :41:27.because we could go on all night, and there are other topics to cover.
:41:28. > :41:35.That go to our fourth from Belfast. My question is for the gentleman
:41:36. > :41:39.from the DUP. My gentleman was killed -- my grandfather was killed
:41:40. > :41:47.in 1871, in the highest meeting, which we walked out on, he says that
:41:48. > :41:52.the buck stops with them and Stormont, so I just want to know why
:41:53. > :41:59.his party leader is refusing to give funds to all victims of the
:42:00. > :42:07.Troubles? OK, this is the case of the legacy inquest, of something
:42:08. > :42:11.like 56 potential inquests involving 90 or so deaths. Michael's
:42:12. > :42:18.grandfather was killed in Bally Murphy in 1971 in two days of
:42:19. > :42:21.shooting by the army. Three days. I do beg pardon. The Secretary of
:42:22. > :42:24.State says the job of the assembly to do it, but Arlene Foster Saturday
:42:25. > :42:28.singers that. Why? It is not that she has set her
:42:29. > :42:34.face against it, she would not allow time for it to be discussed.
:42:35. > :42:36.There are funds a lot of legacy matters.
:42:37. > :42:39.I'm sorry, she has set her face against it. She would not allow
:42:40. > :42:41.it... There is an unresolved issue about
:42:42. > :42:45.national security. But she has set her face against it.
:42:46. > :42:49.Until that is resolved, I suspect there will not be movement on this
:42:50. > :42:57.issue. There is an unresolved issue with national security. The British
:42:58. > :43:05.government have challenged since then. -- challenged Sinn Fein. He
:43:06. > :43:11.says repeatedly that it ends with Arlene Foster.
:43:12. > :43:15.Explain the background. I appreciate you adding that.
:43:16. > :43:18.I assume what you want to do is go through an inquest situation and get
:43:19. > :43:20.answers. And unless the national-security
:43:21. > :43:25.issue is resolved, you will not get the answers from that process. I
:43:26. > :43:28.have met with, I assume, relatives of yours, people involved with the
:43:29. > :43:32.campaign about that massacre, and I did so when I was in Belfast City
:43:33. > :43:36.Council. I know there is pain, and I know there is pain right across
:43:37. > :43:39.society amongst victims, throughout, your community, my community, and
:43:40. > :43:43.the community of Northern Ireland in which we live. Until that is
:43:44. > :43:47.resolved, I don't see there being progress on the issue.
:43:48. > :43:53.But on the specific matter, the whole thing could be cleared up in
:43:54. > :43:54.five years, it is said, these 56 cases, but until it gets started,
:43:55. > :44:04.nothing will be done? Until the British Government 's move
:44:05. > :44:09.on the position they have on national security there will be no
:44:10. > :44:11.answers forthcoming. You could lose years going through the process and
:44:12. > :44:16.should you not get the answers you say get the end of it you will be
:44:17. > :44:21.asking. That is the outstanding impediment to progress. That is one
:44:22. > :44:26.that is going to have to be resolved. The Government is saying
:44:27. > :44:38.it is the responsibility of the Assembly. And if Sinn Fein --... You
:44:39. > :44:43.are the ones raising the objections. On behalf of the families and we are
:44:44. > :44:48.happy to do that. National Security Council used to block access to the
:44:49. > :44:50.truth. Every state will have national security interests and what
:44:51. > :44:55.we have said to the British Government is that there should be
:44:56. > :44:58.independent monitoring of national security issues. When there is a
:44:59. > :45:02.dispute between the body and the British Government you bring in
:45:03. > :45:06.independent bodies to adjudicate on where and how those national
:45:07. > :45:10.security interests are dealt with, or they are set aside. But the issue
:45:11. > :45:17.of funding being released to these families should go ahead because not
:45:18. > :45:23.feel these cases will be around national-security. The Lord Chief
:45:24. > :45:26.Justice said that he would be able to deal with the outstanding cases
:45:27. > :45:31.within five years, the British Government should release the
:45:32. > :45:34.funding and enter into discussions and negotiations about resolving
:45:35. > :45:41.this so-called national security issue. Mike Nesbitt, it said one of
:45:42. > :45:43.the reasons there is reluctance on the Unionist side is because the
:45:44. > :45:49.predominant number of cases are alleging security force killings and
:45:50. > :45:54.therefore it is a rewriting of history and a sense according to
:45:55. > :45:59.some of the DUP, or a new interpretation of history, is that a
:46:00. > :46:04.valid argument? That would not be my concern. From whatever faction of
:46:05. > :46:10.society you came from it is simply wrong and it is unjustifiable to
:46:11. > :46:17.have two weeks for more than 40 years for some process to establish
:46:18. > :46:22.the truth. My difficulty is, we talk about having no hierarchy of
:46:23. > :46:25.victims, that is good, but we have a hierarchy of investigation, so at
:46:26. > :46:30.the moment the victims Commissioner reckons that over 1000 people who
:46:31. > :46:35.have lost loved ones during the Troubles have had nothing because
:46:36. > :46:39.the historical investigation team has been disbanded. All they did was
:46:40. > :46:43.review the file. It was not a new investigation. They just looked at
:46:44. > :46:48.what was held in box files. That goes all the way up to very
:46:49. > :46:52.expensive public inquiries. If you have a hierarchy of investigations
:46:53. > :46:59.you inevitably have a hierarchy of victims and that is our concern.
:47:00. > :47:02.These legacy inquest would establish a hierarchy? Just having different
:47:03. > :47:11.processes means there is a hierarchy. We felt, imperfect as it
:47:12. > :47:18.was, that we should have finished the previous process. Republicans
:47:19. > :47:26.made clear at the Starbuck postdocs that they wanted the option to see
:47:27. > :47:32.two families -- at the Stormont House talks that they wanted the
:47:33. > :47:39.option. We go back to the issue of holding up of funding for legacy
:47:40. > :47:43.requests, cannot be cleared in five years? The Lord Chief Justice has
:47:44. > :47:46.done a good piece of work. I sat in the court during some of the
:47:47. > :47:50.proceedings to figure out how it could be moved forward. He said he
:47:51. > :47:55.can deal with the specific part of the legacy of our past in five years
:47:56. > :48:00.if the money is available. Michael and his family have waited for 44
:48:01. > :48:05.years to even get access to the truth. 46 years. To even get the
:48:06. > :48:09.opportunity to get that beard and a court. That is not good enough. I do
:48:10. > :48:16.not think any of us from whatever side... Do you think linking the
:48:17. > :48:21.legacy inquest to national security disclosure is acceptable? No, any
:48:22. > :48:26.organisation whether paramilitaries or state should be coming forward
:48:27. > :48:29.with the truth, nothing should stand in their way. Society and victims
:48:30. > :48:34.need this. Secretary of State should release this money anyway. He should
:48:35. > :48:39.not be giving Arlene Foster Peter Wanless. That is what has happened.
:48:40. > :48:42.Arlene Foster now has a veto. It has been going on for months. They
:48:43. > :48:46.should take it back on the specific issue to deal with the concerns of
:48:47. > :48:51.the families from Ballymurphy and the other families caught up. Is
:48:52. > :48:57.that a good President? Start taking back bits of devolved power? That is
:48:58. > :49:02.not the issue. Do we hold up a process which we know could get
:49:03. > :49:05.resolution for the families who are beating for inquests on the basis
:49:06. > :49:10.that we are feeling other families? I do not think that there's much of
:49:11. > :49:14.a way to handle an issue that has caused such pain. The legacy
:49:15. > :49:20.inquest, and what the Lord Chief Justice had offered, was a solution,
:49:21. > :49:23.a partial solution, to a political failure to deal with the past in a
:49:24. > :49:29.comprehensive way. What they offered was a time bound cost its proposal
:49:30. > :49:33.that would allow us to deal with this set of inquests. I think it is
:49:34. > :49:38.madness that we do not continue to do that and get these cases dealt
:49:39. > :49:41.with. There will be people, and we have got to be honest about this,
:49:42. > :49:48.who will never know the truth about what happens to their loved ones,
:49:49. > :49:51.who may never even be able to locate there remains, who may never know
:49:52. > :49:55.why those things happened, but that is not a good reason to deny those
:49:56. > :50:04.who could reach the truth the opportunity to get it. Just got a
:50:05. > :50:09.question for Gavin, he did well earlier with the question for
:50:10. > :50:14.Michael, but why is it continually stated that anybody murdered by the
:50:15. > :50:24.British state is not innocent? Can you answer that? What is it you are
:50:25. > :50:30.asking? We are going to move on. Let us move to our fifth question which
:50:31. > :50:34.is from a student from Belfast. With the change in public opinion is time
:50:35. > :50:41.that abortion reform is to Northern Ireland? This is based on the latest
:50:42. > :50:46.opinion poll which shows 72% of people agreed that abortion should
:50:47. > :50:52.be legal if it is the result of sexual crime, 67% thought it should
:50:53. > :51:00.not be a crime, 73% of DUP supporters said it should be allowed
:51:01. > :51:03.if it was a result of rape or incest, 69% of SDLP supporters said
:51:04. > :51:10.it should be allowed if it was a result of rape or incest. As opinion
:51:11. > :51:15.changing? Opinion is changing. Is it time for reform? It is past time for
:51:16. > :51:27.reform and that is why proposals were bought Ford's to try and deal
:51:28. > :51:36.with one aspect, around fatal foetal abnormality. Difficult decisions
:51:37. > :51:41.have to be made by women regardless and they had to make them an short
:51:42. > :51:43.time in order to be able to exercise any kind of control in those
:51:44. > :51:51.difficult situations so the time for reform has come. Fatal foetal
:51:52. > :51:54.abnormality, rape and incest are reasonable grounds to seek an
:51:55. > :51:58.abortion but the law needs to catch up with the reality, women are
:51:59. > :52:03.purchasing online drugs, putting their lives and health at risk, not
:52:04. > :52:07.knowing what they are taking, not doing it with supervision, and
:52:08. > :52:11.putting themselves at risk, and as a society we need to find a response
:52:12. > :52:15.which is compassionate, to deal with the reality. We talk about there
:52:16. > :52:21.being no abortion in Northern Ireland but that is. It is
:52:22. > :52:28.underground orators exported. I want to deal with what these figures
:52:29. > :52:33.indicate. Do you think that you are increasingly out of step with the
:52:34. > :52:37.electorate? 69% of SDLP supporters support abortion efforts as rape or
:52:38. > :52:40.incest. This is a sensitive and difficult issue. It is particularly
:52:41. > :52:44.difficult for the families and the women who are going through it and
:52:45. > :52:48.we should approach at understanding that. I come from a Catholic
:52:49. > :52:53.background. I went to a catholic school. I am not surprised by these
:52:54. > :52:56.figures. I believe that people from my community are discussing this and
:52:57. > :53:01.talking about it and are challenged by it, especially by the hardest of
:53:02. > :53:07.cases. Are you leading the way? What we are doing this we have supported
:53:08. > :53:10.and push for a things to come into place because that is what doctors
:53:11. > :53:15.asked us to do. Doctors asked for a change in the law and you blocked
:53:16. > :53:21.it. We did not. Doctors asked us for a change and guidelines which made
:53:22. > :53:25.it impossible for doctors to do the job. We also have supported the
:53:26. > :53:28.working group which has now reported to the two ministers. We look
:53:29. > :53:37.forward, we are committed to looking at the report and responding to stop
:53:38. > :53:40.what is your own review? The SDLP is a pro-life party, we do not want to
:53:41. > :53:43.see the 96 to seven act coming into Northern Ireland, I do not think
:53:44. > :53:51.there is a popular support from that. If you change the law there
:53:52. > :53:56.can be unintended consequences. Do you support a change in the law? Let
:53:57. > :53:59.me finish. That is why we have to allow the working group to have that
:54:00. > :54:05.report publisher on matters that could then. Our fear of the last
:54:06. > :54:09.time was that a change in the law could be overreaching, it could have
:54:10. > :54:15.led to the extension of the 1967 act. We need to satisfy ourselves
:54:16. > :54:18.that would not. The party has come to this from my compassionate and
:54:19. > :54:20.sensitive position and we will discuss this issue when it comes
:54:21. > :54:25.around. We will not play politics with women or their families but who
:54:26. > :54:32.will stand by the physician that the 9067 act should not come in.
:54:33. > :54:40.Are you out of step with your own support? No, I do not feel that I
:54:41. > :54:47.am. The figures that you are talking about, less than 1000 people. That
:54:48. > :54:55.is a fairly standard pool. Less than 100 people who identified themselves
:54:56. > :55:01.as supporters, there is no way of verifying that. It is important as
:55:02. > :55:08.physical readers we truly engage in this issue and that we are
:55:09. > :55:15.sensitive. Personally I am pro-life. In any circumstance? I have
:55:16. > :55:19.supported exclusion zones outside clinics because I do not think it is
:55:20. > :55:26.appropriate for people who are abused in those situations because
:55:27. > :55:30.it is an incredibly difficult case. But it is right that the working
:55:31. > :55:36.group, and was established not to avoid as has been suggested election
:55:37. > :55:41.considerations, this is something that is sort important it should not
:55:42. > :55:47.be put onto a Justice Bill, it requires proper consideration. We
:55:48. > :55:50.have proper consideration now through the working group. It is
:55:51. > :55:55.reported to the Health Minister and the justice minister. It will then
:55:56. > :55:58.be brought to the executive. Whether it suggests that the should be
:55:59. > :56:02.legislative change or it can be dealt with by guidelines, the first
:56:03. > :56:10.guidelines were struck down. Comments were made. This is an issue
:56:11. > :56:13.that has had a lack of clarity for a considerable number of years and I
:56:14. > :56:16.hope we're now getting to a point where we can engage in what the
:56:17. > :56:20.clarity could be going forward. This debate is not about the extension of
:56:21. > :56:33.the night insisted seven act, that is a diversion. -- the 1967 act. I
:56:34. > :56:38.am not aware... It is characterised as reducing abortion on demand. This
:56:39. > :56:41.debate is about specific circumstances and distressed woman
:56:42. > :56:47.were given promises before the police debate that they would
:56:48. > :56:51.support... That is not true. It is on the record. It is not on the
:56:52. > :56:57.record. It is not true. You can take that up with those who put it on the
:56:58. > :57:01.record. Where given promises that they would deal with specific issues
:57:02. > :57:07.around fatal foetal abnormality. There is also the issue of sex
:57:08. > :57:11.crimes and abuse of women. That is the issue at hand and we do support
:57:12. > :57:15.in those circumstances termination of pregnancy. It is not about the
:57:16. > :57:20.needs of doctors or politicians. It is about the needs of the women
:57:21. > :57:23.involved. Very quickly. I am not surprised by the results and I am
:57:24. > :57:29.not sure it presents a big shift because when I took up a position in
:57:30. > :57:36.favour of changing the law for fatal foetal abnormality and sex crimes it
:57:37. > :57:40.seemed there was a groundswell. I am not going to look you in the eye and
:57:41. > :57:46.say either you must abort or you must go full-term. But as a choice
:57:47. > :57:48.that you had to make and that has to be an informed choice because you
:57:49. > :57:56.are going to live with consequences of that decision. And if you do want
:57:57. > :58:03.to go full-term we do not have hospice support. At the end of the
:58:04. > :58:10.is to do with the women who are pregnant and I think that backstreet
:58:11. > :58:16.abortions, that are still going to happen, do you not think a change in
:58:17. > :58:19.the law will help us? Thank you. There is also a lack of
:58:20. > :58:23.modernisation in Northern Ireland. We are so stuck in the past. Looking
:58:24. > :58:29.at the politics of the past. We do not focus on modern issues including
:58:30. > :58:32.abortion, mental health and gay marriage. At this only moved on and
:58:33. > :58:36.started busting to what people are saying, listen to these surveys, and
:58:37. > :58:48.realise that the majority of people want action taken. What is your
:58:49. > :58:51.view? Make a brief comment. 833 women from Northern Ireland
:58:52. > :59:03.travelled to England for an abortion. There we must leave it for
:59:04. > :59:09.tonight. Thank you to our panel and our audience and to you at home for
:59:10. > :59:16.watching. Good night.