:00:39. > :00:49.Good afternoon and welcome to the very first edition of the Sunday
:00:49. > :01:28.
:01:28. > :01:34.In the East Midlands, should local authorities accept a government
:01:34. > :01:44.offer to freeze cancelled Cup -- council tax? Some council leader
:01:44. > :01:44.
:01:44. > :29:48.Apology for the loss of subtitles for 1683 seconds
:29:48. > :29:51.say the coalition is setting them a Hello, I'm Marie Ashby and welcome
:29:51. > :29:55.to the Sunday Politics in the East Midlands. Coming up:
:29:55. > :29:58.Is it too good to be true? Why the leaders of two of our cities say
:29:58. > :30:08.the Government's offer to freeze council tax is setting them a trap
:30:08. > :30:09.
:30:09. > :30:12.With me throughout the programme, the Conservative MP for Broxtowe,
:30:12. > :30:18.Anna Soubry, and Chris Williamson, the Shadow Communities Minister who
:30:18. > :30:21.represents Derby North. Many of you will remember Anna from her days as
:30:21. > :30:24.a reporter and presenter for Central Television in our region.
:30:24. > :30:27.She then trained to become a barrister. Chris is a former
:30:27. > :30:31.bricklayer and social worker. And he was a member of Derby City
:30:31. > :30:35.Council for 20 years. Both of them entered Parliament for the first
:30:35. > :30:42.time at the last election. You must be in a very small minority in the
:30:42. > :30:47.Commons, Chris. A working-class MP! No, it is an incredible privilege
:30:47. > :30:50.to represent my City as a Member of Parliament and it is true to say
:30:50. > :30:55.that the number of MPs that are from a working-class background has
:30:55. > :30:59.been falling over the last 50 or 60 years and I think all the political
:30:59. > :31:02.parties have done a lot to increase representation from women and
:31:02. > :31:07.people from minority backgrounds, but what we haven't done, but
:31:07. > :31:09.parties are beginning to recognise this, is that if we are going to be
:31:09. > :31:14.truly representative, we need more people from working-class
:31:14. > :31:17.backgrounds. It is great to have the opportunity to represent my
:31:17. > :31:21.city and coming from that background, I have got a better
:31:21. > :31:26.ability to understand the concerns and issues of the people. Is this
:31:26. > :31:31.really the job you've always wanted? No. To be honest, I didn't
:31:31. > :31:35.really know what job I wanted! Things have just come along. I
:31:35. > :31:38.think all MPs, the thing we share in, is a desire to make change,
:31:38. > :31:44.that is why we get into politics, because we want to be empowered to
:31:44. > :31:49.bring about those changes. It is how we do it is how we differ, so I
:31:49. > :31:53.got involved in politics, and I was involved as a student, and then a
:31:53. > :31:58.few years ago I got back to it because I felt very strongly about
:31:58. > :32:01.things and I wanted to be a part of a change and make a difference. And
:32:01. > :32:08.that is something I enjoy doing, especially when you can help
:32:08. > :32:11.constituents out or stop and how I used settling in? I have tried to
:32:11. > :32:15.find my feet, but you do get used to your working environment, which
:32:15. > :32:19.is important because if you are going to be representing people,
:32:19. > :32:25.you need to feel comfortable in your workplace, and it is an
:32:25. > :32:34.important job that we are trying to do. And, so, yes, I can basically
:32:34. > :32:39.find my way around. I have reached my office, so I am OK. And you?
:32:39. > :32:44.I have got an office now. I enjoy it, the staff are extremely helpful
:32:44. > :32:48.and kind, there is fantastic support services, whether it is in
:32:48. > :32:54.the library, from your own party and own colleagues. And I like the,
:32:54. > :33:00.Roderick and the banter, and members of the opposition, you
:33:00. > :33:09.enjoy their company, and insult -- and enjoyed the insults on a joke
:33:09. > :33:12.bases. Well, this week was an important
:33:12. > :33:14.landmark in a case Anna's been taking a strong interest in. And
:33:14. > :33:17.that's the horrific story involving a Stapleford mental health patient,
:33:17. > :33:19.William Barnard, who killed his grandfather after stabbing him 50
:33:19. > :33:22.times, and then seriously injured his grandmother when she tried to
:33:22. > :33:25.protect him. An independent inquiry has identified serious failings in
:33:25. > :33:28.the way his case was handled by his mental health team. They failed to
:33:28. > :33:31.act despite Barnard refusing to open the door to them on several
:33:31. > :33:34.occasions and despite the fact that he'd stopped taking his medication.
:33:34. > :33:43.His uncle told East Midlands Today the report is a condemnation of the
:33:43. > :33:46.health trust's failures. We would still have our father with us now
:33:46. > :33:50.if any one of those many, many missed opportunities had been acted
:33:50. > :33:53.Anna, You've been in regular contact with the family. They're
:33:53. > :33:58.now calling for an inquest and they want the staff responsible for
:33:58. > :34:05.those failings to be held accountable. Are they right? Very
:34:05. > :34:12.much so. I think this must be the most damning report. Certainly,
:34:12. > :34:16.Paul Bacon, who represented William Barnard, a unpaid, as a solicitor,
:34:16. > :34:19.he says, and he has considerable experience in mental health cases,
:34:19. > :34:24.this is the worst report he has seen and it is the worst one I have
:34:24. > :34:28.seen. A damning indictment, a systemic failure and an absolute
:34:28. > :34:33.outrage and scandal. My concern is that this report still doesn't not
:34:33. > :34:36.tackle the questions that should have been answered. The strategic
:34:36. > :34:40.health authority had not appreciated why these failings
:34:40. > :34:50.occurred. And one of the things that really has caused me enormous
:34:50. > :34:52.
:34:52. > :34:56.concern is that when William Barnard was taken out of hospital,
:34:56. > :34:59.important information was not handed over to his new team. We
:34:59. > :35:04.have the psychiatric nurses, if they had known that information,
:35:04. > :35:08.they would have acted sooner. It is not missed opportunities but an
:35:08. > :35:15.absolute failing to look after William, Corps went on to murder
:35:15. > :35:20.his grandfather. -- who went on to murder. Do you think, Chris, that
:35:20. > :35:25.we do enough in cases like this to bring those responsible to account?
:35:25. > :35:32.This is an incredibly tragic case, and the report is pretty damning of
:35:32. > :35:37.the way in which the perpetrator of this horrific crime was actually
:35:37. > :35:42.handled. We do need to learn some lessons from this. And I think it
:35:42. > :35:45.is... It is an indication of why we need to be so very careful in how
:35:45. > :35:51.we handle the National Health Service and how we deal with
:35:51. > :35:55.reorganisation because the last thing we need is a situation where
:35:55. > :35:59.the transformation which is being proposed within the National Health
:35:59. > :36:03.Service could actually make matters worse rather than better. But we
:36:03. > :36:09.hear this so often that lessons have got to be learnt, but they
:36:09. > :36:13.haven't, have they? What more should we be doing? They want to
:36:13. > :36:19.make sure, the family, that all of these recommendations are carried
:36:20. > :36:24.out. The real thing about this is this is not a party political point,
:36:24. > :36:28.and not an issue, but mental health has been a Cinderella service and
:36:28. > :36:32.the people that work in mental health, the people that looked
:36:32. > :36:34.after William are often the most dedicated people and the the most
:36:34. > :36:37.appalling circumstances and that is why they need to be properly
:36:37. > :36:42.supervised and that is why communication needs to be better
:36:42. > :36:45.and they need to have plans of action. The inquiry pointed out
:36:45. > :36:50.that William Barnard did not have a history of violence and the attack
:36:50. > :36:54.was not predictable. That is their due, but they are wrong because in
:36:54. > :36:58.2002, when he was poorly for the first time, William disclosed to
:36:58. > :37:03.his psychiatrist he thought people were going to kill him. He said he
:37:03. > :37:07.had an axe, he probably didn't, those were her it -- his delusions,
:37:07. > :37:10.but those were indicators of what might happen and those were the
:37:10. > :37:16.risk factors that they spectacularly failed to make sure
:37:17. > :37:20.to put there. The team didn't know that, and that is a complete
:37:20. > :37:24.failure that really should be absolutely nailed and should be
:37:24. > :37:29.understood, and it was a disgrace because John McGrath did not have
:37:29. > :37:33.to die. Why don't we punish those responsible? The important thing is
:37:33. > :37:38.not to demonise the mental health workers, who do an incredibly
:37:38. > :37:43.difficult job, and I think Anna Soubry would agree. They have got
:37:43. > :37:48.to have the adequate resources, training, supervision. So that they
:37:48. > :37:51.avoid future tragedies. This report does not identify the supervisors
:37:51. > :37:55.of the two most important key workers who, through no fault of
:37:55. > :37:59.their own, could not give William the sort of care and attention they
:37:59. > :38:04.needed. One of them was sick, in the most critical three-month
:38:04. > :38:09.period, but nobody was supervising him. That is not in this report.
:38:09. > :38:13.is an absolute tragedy and I know that you will have strong views on
:38:13. > :38:16.our next story, too, the council tax.
:38:16. > :38:19.I know you'll both have strong views on our next story, council
:38:19. > :38:22.tax. The Government has offered councils a 2.5% increase in revenue
:38:22. > :38:25.if they freeze the amount they charge you and me for the coming
:38:25. > :38:28.year. But it's not quite that simple. Labour councillors smell a
:38:28. > :38:31.trap, not least because they'll have to hold a referendum if they
:38:31. > :38:32.reject the offer and increase rates by more than 3.5%. Here's our
:38:32. > :38:35.political editor, John Hess. The relationship between national
:38:35. > :38:44.government and our local councils can be a cat-and-mouse affair, so
:38:44. > :38:49.who has got the cream, who feels rather trap? -- rather trapped up?
:38:49. > :38:52.The annual budget round has become a craft that -- tougher game with
:38:52. > :38:59.the Government wanting increases prison and is offering town halls a
:38:59. > :39:04.cash incentive. Labour run Nottingham have rejected it. It is
:39:04. > :39:08.a trap. If we take the money, it is going to cost us in great deal of
:39:08. > :39:13.money further down the line. It will be a bit like taking out a pay
:39:13. > :39:19.the loan and then paying about 40% interest per year. There is a
:39:19. > :39:25.silver lining in those grey skies. Not an's council tax will rise by
:39:25. > :39:30.3.4%. Accepting a freeze, Labour says, would mean it getting lower
:39:30. > :39:35.funding the following year for benefit payments. We will lose
:39:35. > :39:40.about a million pounds a year. that is big money? It has big
:39:40. > :39:43.implications across services. And that is the crab. You will not hear
:39:43. > :39:47.talk of a political trap here. County Hall in Nottinghamshire is
:39:47. > :39:53.run by the Conservatives and they warm to the idea of a council tax
:39:54. > :39:58.freeze. We have been given �7.7 million extra this year to put into
:39:58. > :40:02.our budget and we have already taken that into account so we don't
:40:02. > :40:06.have to make so many savings as we had expected to, so I am grateful
:40:06. > :40:10.to the Government, and also there will be money there for next year
:40:10. > :40:13.which means I do not have to ask the public to put the -- their
:40:13. > :40:16.hands in their pockets. It would be wrong to but the council tax up,
:40:16. > :40:21.especially when we have been offered money from the government
:40:21. > :40:27.to keep it down. In Leicester, as in Labour Nottingham, the
:40:27. > :40:31.Government's cash offer has been turned down. It's Labour mayor is
:40:31. > :40:37.planning a 3.5% increase. The alternative, he says, is big cuts
:40:37. > :40:47.to services and jobs. A1 % increase in the council tax produces �1
:40:47. > :40:47.
:40:47. > :40:52.million. If we were to take the freeze Bob Grant, what it would do
:40:52. > :40:57.is give us �2 million extra, but we would have to cut �3.5 million in
:40:57. > :41:01.the coming year, and over the years to come a further �10 million in
:41:01. > :41:04.three years. This grant is a trap. There is no other word for it.
:41:04. > :41:08.is buried disappointing that Leicester City Council should take
:41:08. > :41:12.that attitude. -- it is very disappointing. We are trying to
:41:12. > :41:20.help hard-pressed families with their council to -- council tax
:41:20. > :41:26.bills and all the surveys show that council tax is a concern. Coming
:41:26. > :41:30.soon, the referendum game. Council tax increases over 3.5% will
:41:30. > :41:37.trigger a referendum. The voters will have the final say. Who will
:41:37. > :41:40.end up in the Mousetrap then a? So which way do you think councils
:41:40. > :41:43.should jump? Joining us now, the Lib Dem leader of Hinckley and
:41:43. > :41:46.Bosworth Council, Stuart Bray. What are you going to do? Are you going
:41:46. > :41:52.to take the Government's money? we will freeze our council tax and
:41:52. > :41:56.take the offer, which has about �105,000. Why? We think the people
:41:56. > :42:01.of Hinckley and Bosworth are feeling the pinch right now, so we
:42:01. > :42:06.have decided that it would be wrong we didn't take the offer. It would
:42:07. > :42:12.be wrong and people are feeling the pinch. Well, this is the typical
:42:12. > :42:16.Tory Lib Dem cynical gimmick, to give the impression is that they
:42:16. > :42:19.are handling local government finances well. The truth is the
:42:19. > :42:25.Government has singled out local government for the single biggest
:42:25. > :42:30.reduction in funding of all public services. And, let's be clear,
:42:30. > :42:34.local government is responsible for some of the most important public
:42:34. > :42:39.services that defines the kind of society in which we live. And they
:42:39. > :42:44.are being hammered. What is worse is that the areas like Nottingham,
:42:44. > :42:49.Leicester, Derby, other cities and towns in the Midlands and the North
:42:49. > :42:53.and some in London, they are bearing the biggest burden. And
:42:53. > :42:58.more affluent parts of the country are seeing hardly any reduction at
:42:58. > :43:01.all, so what we are seeing here is the poorest communities been
:43:01. > :43:07.sacrificed on the altar of deficit reduction, whilst they are looking
:43:07. > :43:13.after their friends in the Tory shire. So, you will take the money
:43:13. > :43:16.despite that report, warning it will cost you more in the long run?
:43:16. > :43:20.I am not going to come here and tell Graeme and Peter and others
:43:20. > :43:24.have to run their council finances, that is their decision, and they
:43:24. > :43:28.will have to answer to their electric. From our point of view,
:43:28. > :43:34.we are taking �105,000, because it is the right thing to do, and we
:43:34. > :43:37.will adjust our budget accordingly. We are losing 25% of our Grant ever
:43:37. > :43:44.the first two years, but we are making savings and we have been
:43:44. > :43:51.able to do that. Well, you have made your decision. Is there a
:43:51. > :43:55.trap? They are allowing very well run and responsible local
:43:55. > :44:05.authorities like the one Stewart leads to do the right thing. The
:44:05. > :44:10.simple and reality is we are bust. We do not have any money. We have
:44:10. > :44:16.reached the limit on our credit card. If anybody like that lives
:44:16. > :44:21.like that, you have to make cuts. And Labour... Hang on, because you
:44:21. > :44:26.had a good save. Labour will be doing exactly the same thing. And
:44:26. > :44:33.we now know that if you get elected in 2015, you will continue to make
:44:33. > :44:40.a cuts. Because of the deficit. Let's be clear. You're failing to
:44:40. > :44:44.acknowledge the fact that George Osborne has had to borrow an
:44:44. > :44:50.additional hundred �58 billion, which came out in the Autumn
:44:50. > :44:56.Statement. -- an additional �158 billion. We should be investing in
:44:56. > :45:00.growth. Remember, local government workers all pay tax. They are being
:45:00. > :45:04.sacked in their tens and hundreds of thousands. We will not be
:45:04. > :45:10.sacking anybody! They all pay tax and national insurance. I would
:45:10. > :45:15.like to be clear on this, too. will not cut public service.
:45:15. > :45:19.Impacts on the wider economy. Private sector organisations,
:45:19. > :45:23.construction industries, that is on its knees. What will you Cup?
:45:23. > :45:30.result of it -- the cuts... What would you cut? On Nottinghamshire's
:45:30. > :45:38.figures, the taxpayer would save the grand total of �30 a year.
:45:38. > :45:42.Don't knock it. I am not knocking it, I am telling you. That is
:45:42. > :45:46.roughly �2.50 a month. For some people, that is a lot of money if.
:45:46. > :45:50.It is a pint of beer. Is it really worth cutting more services?
:45:50. > :45:55.some people, that is an awful lot of money in difficult times. There
:45:55. > :46:00.are people not only having their pay frozen, they are finding they
:46:00. > :46:07.are having overtime cut, these are difficult times. We are investing
:46:07. > :46:11.in growth. You are not! We are having these enterprise zones.
:46:11. > :46:17.are rearranging the deckchairs! These are proper investments we
:46:17. > :46:21.need to see for growth. The reality is where we are. Kate cuts identify
:46:21. > :46:26.is that she has a moral obligation when the government is helping her
:46:26. > :46:31.counsel in the way it is, in the long-term, like Stuart Bray's
:46:31. > :46:35.Council, helping to make sure that we are running our governments are
:46:35. > :46:44.efficiently. What happens there year after? You're deficit X mac
:46:44. > :46:50.what happens in the following year? What happens then? What is Labour's
:46:50. > :46:55.solution? The government has been warning local authorities that if
:46:55. > :47:00.they put up the council tax by more than 3.5%, they will have to put it
:47:00. > :47:06.to referendum. Is that a step too far? I have got mixed reviews.
:47:06. > :47:09.Years, you are sitting quietly in a corner. I would like to say about
:47:09. > :47:14.the enterprise zones. Hinckley and Bosworth, that is not a gimmick.
:47:14. > :47:19.This is bringing in thousands of jobs which my administration has
:47:19. > :47:23.been helping to facilitate. On the referendum, I do have mixed views.
:47:23. > :47:27.It is right the Government should be sent to councils, in tough times
:47:27. > :47:34.keep the levels of council tax down but I think there are a couple of
:47:34. > :47:39.problems. First, the cap level which is 3.5%. A lot of inflation
:47:39. > :47:44.is running wild, probably 1% higher than that, so that is a cut or
:47:44. > :47:50.local authorities. The second point, in my own authority, 1% of our
:47:50. > :47:56.council tax rises about �44,000. My officers have advised me to run a
:47:56. > :48:00.referendum, it would cost �100,000, so we would put our council tax up
:48:00. > :48:05.to have a referendum, which is double standards in Government,
:48:05. > :48:12.because we are not having a referendum on income tax. So, it is
:48:12. > :48:22.not the time for a referendum? Myself as a local politician, I am
:48:22. > :48:30.accountable two Electric. Thank you. -- accountable to my electric.
:48:30. > :48:35.a round-up of the political week in the East Midlands with John Hess.
:48:35. > :48:39.Good news for Tory leader of North West Leicestershire Council and
:48:39. > :48:43.independent candidate has dropped an election court case with him.
:48:43. > :48:47.When he announced he was quitting as an East Midlands euro MP, he
:48:47. > :48:51.wanted Rupert Matthews to be his successor. It seems conservative
:48:51. > :48:57.head office is worried he is too much of a maverick, even more than
:48:57. > :49:00.Roger, clearly. Latest child poverty figures shows that
:49:00. > :49:05.Nottinghamshire is the 9th was deprived authority. It underlines
:49:05. > :49:09.the need for early intervention. Loughborough's Nicky Morgan wants
:49:09. > :49:13.more help for children in rural areas. The Conservative MP is
:49:13. > :49:19.worried cuts in school bus services are forcing some pupils to walk
:49:20. > :49:24.along dangerous row at the stop at PMQss, Liz Kendall highlighted the
:49:24. > :49:27.plight of 14-year-old Bethany Nicol Bird, who desperately needs a bone
:49:27. > :49:37.marrow transplant. David Cameron agreed more needs to
:49:37. > :49:37.