0:01:27 > 0:01:29Here: A warning that the closure of a hostel for vulnerable teenagers
0:01:29 > 0:01:39will force some of them onto the streets.
0:01:39 > 0:01:39
0:01:39 > 0:32:09Apology for the loss of subtitles for 1830 seconds
0:32:10 > 0:32:12And, how we're sitting on huge Hello, I'm John Hess. Our guests in
0:32:12 > 0:32:18the East Midlands are the Conservative MP for Bosworth, David
0:32:18 > 0:32:22Tredinnick and John Mann, the Labour MP for Bassetlaw. Coming up:
0:32:22 > 0:32:26Is the price of spending cuts too high? A homeless charity tells us
0:32:26 > 0:32:31it's being forced to close a hostel for vulnerable teenagers. It warns
0:32:31 > 0:32:34more young people will end up sleeping rough.
0:32:34 > 0:32:40Plus, our region is sitting on some of the biggest reserves of shale
0:32:40 > 0:32:47gas in the country. The question is, should we exploit them?
0:32:47 > 0:32:51First briefly, the Budget. David, can you give me an example
0:32:51 > 0:32:56of how the Budget has helped businesses and people wanting to
0:32:56 > 0:33:02get into work in your own constituency? We have just had this
0:33:02 > 0:33:08huge enterprise zone just outside Hinckley announced, creating at
0:33:08 > 0:33:11least 2000 new highly paid jobs, be an average of �40,000 in year in
0:33:11 > 0:33:17salaries. Bring in the corporation tax rate down will help businesses
0:33:17 > 0:33:21in the area, and also the top rate will stop people going abroad.
0:33:21 > 0:33:24it a quick fix or long term? think it is part of a long-term
0:33:24 > 0:33:29solution. When you have high tax rates people tried to avoid them.
0:33:29 > 0:33:33This Chancellor has said he wants people to pay their taxes. We will
0:33:33 > 0:33:38be paying taxes - petrol up more than three pence, it is great if
0:33:38 > 0:33:42you are in business, to see record Petrel lovers. Pensioners getting
0:33:42 > 0:33:48hit. Even if you want to go on holiday in a caravan in England.
0:33:48 > 0:33:52You will be paying 20% VAT. This is nonsense. It does nothing for
0:33:52 > 0:33:56business. A You are a member of the Treasury Select Committee. The one
0:33:56 > 0:34:01thing everyone agrees on is that we need to get the economy going again.
0:34:01 > 0:34:04Growth was predicted to be 2.5% and the last Budget, now it is
0:34:05 > 0:34:10predicted to be under 1%. In other words, we are not growing the
0:34:10 > 0:34:18economy. Yet the Independent Office for Budget Responsibility is
0:34:18 > 0:34:20forecasting growth of 2% next year, 2.7% in 2014 - much higher than the
0:34:20 > 0:34:24Eurozone. They always predict higher, and it when it comes to the
0:34:24 > 0:34:28real year, this year, it is much lower. They also predict, by the
0:34:28 > 0:34:36way, which -- that national debt is going to be going up every single
0:34:36 > 0:34:40year. Not delivering, David, on that key issue of dealing with a
0:34:40 > 0:34:44deficit reduction. Even during the boom years, a number of private
0:34:44 > 0:34:48sector jobs in the West Midlands was declining. We have a
0:34:48 > 0:34:52fundamental structural problems, and we have to deal with this
0:34:52 > 0:34:57massive budget deficit that Labour have left us. This new budget that
0:34:57 > 0:35:02we have just had makes it easier for people to take jobs, people in
0:35:02 > 0:35:06the private sector. We have got help for younger people, and, by
0:35:06 > 0:35:10reducing this debt burden we will, in the end, create the new jobs we
0:35:10 > 0:35:14need for the benefit of the country. Yet the Chancellor has warned he
0:35:14 > 0:35:19will cut another �10 billion off the welfare bill. Why should
0:35:19 > 0:35:22vulnerable people in our region pay an even higher price for a crisis
0:35:22 > 0:35:26that they say they are not responsible for and did not cause
0:35:26 > 0:35:29in the first prize? We have passed a new bill through Parliament to
0:35:29 > 0:35:32create a universal benefit, and stop some of the abuses that we
0:35:32 > 0:35:37have had in the past. Some of the benefit was going to people who
0:35:37 > 0:35:43should not have had it in the first prize. We want a much more targeted
0:35:43 > 0:35:47benefits system. John Mann, what you say to David, where he said
0:35:47 > 0:35:51earlier that lowering the top rate of tax, reducing corporation tax,
0:35:51 > 0:35:56will attract more companies to Britain, and by implication more
0:35:56 > 0:35:58companies to the East Midlands? any people benefiting are the
0:35:58 > 0:36:02millionaires who are getting the vast amounts of their tax. That
0:36:02 > 0:36:06does nothing for anyone. There is nothing in this for small
0:36:06 > 0:36:10businesses. Petrol prices going up does nothing for small business,
0:36:10 > 0:36:13and that is what the East Midlands needs. For the moment, thank you.
0:36:13 > 0:36:16Next, spending cuts are taking an increasing toll, particularly on
0:36:16 > 0:36:18local charities. Now Framework has told the Sunday Politics it's being
0:36:18 > 0:36:24forced to close a hostel for vulnerable teenagers, as I've been
0:36:24 > 0:36:28finding out. Heading to a hostel that won't be
0:36:28 > 0:36:31here next Spring. By the time these daffodils have wilted, this shelter
0:36:31 > 0:36:34for the homeless in Nottingham will be closed because of local council
0:36:34 > 0:36:43spending cuts. 19-year-old Daniel Whitehead, who was homeless for
0:36:43 > 0:36:48almost two years, is having to look for new accommodation again. How
0:36:48 > 0:36:52valuable would you say this service is? With all the support and that,
0:36:52 > 0:36:57it has been good for me and the people I have lived with that. It
0:36:57 > 0:37:00is quite valuable, really. This is one of the flats run by the
0:37:00 > 0:37:03Framework charity for the homeless. The room's been cleared because of
0:37:03 > 0:37:06a funding cut of �250,000 by Labour-run Nottingham City Council.
0:37:06 > 0:37:15The hostel offered 14 vulnerable young homeless people a roof over
0:37:15 > 0:37:18their head. It shuts at the end of the month. It will mean that young,
0:37:18 > 0:37:21homeless and vulnerable people who need support to establish the
0:37:21 > 0:37:25skills that they need to live independently will no longer get
0:37:25 > 0:37:27that support, and they will be left to fend for themselves. Neither
0:37:27 > 0:37:30Nottingham City Council or the Labour politician in charge of
0:37:30 > 0:37:40housing agreed to be interviewed about this. In a statement, the
0:37:40 > 0:37:57
0:37:57 > 0:38:00The blame game is of little interest for Daniel. It is
0:38:00 > 0:38:04important for all the people who are homeless, really. If it wasn't
0:38:04 > 0:38:06there, where will people go? Government insists it's protected
0:38:06 > 0:38:09its �6.5 billion Supporting People programme and expects councils to
0:38:09 > 0:38:19do the same. That message hasn't been heard here. The hostel shuts
0:38:19 > 0:38:21in just over a week. Can we cut through this blame game
0:38:22 > 0:38:24here. Is the Government seriously suggesting that councils like
0:38:24 > 0:38:32Nottingham are wilfully choosing to scrap funding for hostels like this
0:38:32 > 0:38:36one when they could keep it open? Yes, that is the case. The money is
0:38:37 > 0:38:41there, but they are not using it. It is not ring-fenced. So, there is
0:38:41 > 0:38:44a degree of politics in this. It is very unwise. All of the homes we
0:38:44 > 0:38:49have in Hinckley are open, so I don't know what this Labour-
0:38:49 > 0:38:53controlled council are doing. are what, taking a local decision?
0:38:53 > 0:38:58It is a local decision. There is money available for these projects,
0:38:58 > 0:39:02but they are not caring to use it. A so, in effect, John Mann, David
0:39:02 > 0:39:07Tredinnick is saying this is Nottingham City Council's joys.
0:39:07 > 0:39:11Well, strangely, Conservative Nottingham County Council in my
0:39:11 > 0:39:15area has also cut its Supporting People programme by a huge amount,
0:39:15 > 0:39:19and what they say is the Government has forced them to do it. And that
0:39:19 > 0:39:23is the case. What we have had is the Government cutting the
0:39:23 > 0:39:26Supporting People budget across the country and saying to local-
0:39:26 > 0:39:30authority is they have still got the responsibility for homelessness
0:39:30 > 0:39:36and Supporting People, but we're not giving you any money to do it.
0:39:36 > 0:39:41That is the dilemma of all councils of all parties, and the vulnerable,
0:39:41 > 0:39:44including the would be and future home this... It is a scandal. There
0:39:44 > 0:39:49is a danger of this happening in my area and other parts of
0:39:49 > 0:39:55Nottinghamshire. You say it is a scandal, yet the Housing Minister
0:39:55 > 0:39:58is saying Supporting People funding has been protected. He says it's up
0:39:58 > 0:40:02to councils to invest in vulnerable teenagers like Daniel. And the
0:40:02 > 0:40:11money is there - �6.5 billion nationally.
0:40:11 > 0:40:14It has been precisely been cut. They say used for general money.
0:40:14 > 0:40:21All councils with huge cut are having to balance out the different
0:40:21 > 0:40:24priorities. We are seeing part of the country, including in my area,
0:40:24 > 0:40:30problems with Supporting People, problems with the Budget, and
0:40:30 > 0:40:32people like this potentially getting thrown out on the street.
0:40:32 > 0:40:37Isn't this one Budget that should be protected for the most
0:40:37 > 0:40:41vulnerable people in society? the money is there. It is not ring-
0:40:41 > 0:40:47fenced. But I think it is important that councils do their utmost to
0:40:47 > 0:40:51keep these homes open and support organisations that are providing
0:40:51 > 0:40:57services for drug addicts, people who are on the streets... But the
0:40:57 > 0:41:00Government has said they have cut the budget by 12%. There is a
0:41:00 > 0:41:04rationalisation because of a big overspend generally in affairs in
0:41:04 > 0:41:10the UK at the moment, but if we don't support these homeless
0:41:10 > 0:41:13shelters and houses like that, these people often end up in police
0:41:13 > 0:41:19stations or hospitals. We have to pick up a much larger built later
0:41:19 > 0:41:24on. It is a very sensitive area. We have touched on deficit reduction
0:41:24 > 0:41:28already. Is it realistic to expect any budget to be fully protected,
0:41:28 > 0:41:32given the economic climate we are in? Of course not, but it is a
0:41:32 > 0:41:35false economy to throw people out onto the street, to encourage drug-
0:41:35 > 0:41:41taking and crime and alcoholism, which is precisely what will happen.
0:41:41 > 0:41:46People need a home, and young people in pubs, but -- perhaps
0:41:46 > 0:41:50because they had been thrown out of the family home for whatever reason,
0:41:50 > 0:41:54they need to have somewhere to live or they will end up on drugs and
0:41:54 > 0:41:59doing crime. I have to agree. We must support vulnerable people and
0:41:59 > 0:42:03make sure they don't sleep rough and get into trouble.
0:42:03 > 0:42:06Let's see if there's any agreement on our next issue. We can reveal
0:42:06 > 0:42:09that the East Midlands is sitting on some of the biggest reserves of
0:42:09 > 0:42:12shale gas in the country. A reason to celebrate, or should we be
0:42:12 > 0:42:15worried about what might happen if we exploit them?
0:42:15 > 0:42:19So, could the tranquil beauty of the Vale of Belvoir become one of
0:42:19 > 0:42:24Britain's biggest gas fields. From here to the Derbyshire Peak
0:42:24 > 0:42:27District is one of the country's biggest reserves of shale gas. This
0:42:27 > 0:42:30is Melton Mowbray, celebrated for its pork pies, yet it could be
0:42:30 > 0:42:40ingredients a mile underground that could give this town and many
0:42:40 > 0:42:43
0:42:43 > 0:42:46others in the East Midlands rich pickings in a new dash for gas.
0:42:46 > 0:42:50This geologist is inside a labyrinth of a national collection
0:42:50 > 0:42:57of rock specimens at the British Geological Survey headquarters. He
0:42:57 > 0:43:02is looking for box 14189. It contains ancient stones, drilled
0:43:02 > 0:43:07just north of Derby in the Swinging 60s, when the any interest in gas
0:43:07 > 0:43:12was jumping Jack Flash. This black line in the court is an old plant
0:43:12 > 0:43:17stem, about 250 million years old, and it is the organic matter within
0:43:17 > 0:43:21the start of material that will generate Matt -- gas. It looks
0:43:21 > 0:43:25psychedelic, but this is a Geographic map with Melton Mowbray
0:43:25 > 0:43:29in the bottom corner. But this is what begets the gas industry so
0:43:29 > 0:43:35excited - this thick green belt represents the shale gas reserves
0:43:35 > 0:43:45in this area alone. The reserves have been identified in three main
0:43:45 > 0:43:45
0:43:45 > 0:43:50areas of the East Midlands. But, how is the gas extracted? The water
0:43:50 > 0:43:53is pumped in at very high pressures. It will spread the rocker open. If
0:43:53 > 0:43:56you imagine that this ball is sound, Sanders also pumped into the
0:43:56 > 0:44:02borehole, it goes into the fractious, and that keeps the
0:44:02 > 0:44:05Thatcher's open and creating a pressure gradient by which Gas can
0:44:05 > 0:44:09flow from the rock into the borehole. It is called fracking.
0:44:09 > 0:44:14That, together with new drilling technology, has opened up new
0:44:14 > 0:44:18possibilities. But, it is controversial. In Blackpool,
0:44:18 > 0:44:21fracking of the Lancashire coast created minor earth tremors.
0:44:21 > 0:44:25Drilling was suspended pending a government safety review. In
0:44:25 > 0:44:33America, critics claim fracking contaminates the water supply with
0:44:33 > 0:44:37gas. This fireball in a bathroom basin became an internet sensation.
0:44:37 > 0:44:41Former Nottingham South MP Alan Simpson is now sustainable energy
0:44:41 > 0:44:47policy adviser for Friends of the Earth. The experience from America
0:44:47 > 0:44:53is that if you give an untrammelled permission to race down that route,
0:44:53 > 0:44:59you will end up with thousands of drilling sites, producing billions
0:44:59 > 0:45:03of gallons of toxic waste that are just poured back onto the land.
0:45:03 > 0:45:07Once those companies have milked the profits, the community is
0:45:07 > 0:45:12affected and will pick up the legacies for generations to come.
0:45:12 > 0:45:19The UK reserves, according to one industry expert, are the equivalent
0:45:19 > 0:45:24of seven North Sea gas fields. This is the office of the Department for
0:45:24 > 0:45:29an even here, officials admit they don't know the full extent of shale
0:45:29 > 0:45:32gas in the UK. In a statement, the Energy Minister, Charles Hendry,
0:45:32 > 0:45:38also says that they don't know how economically or environmentally
0:45:38 > 0:45:42viable it will be to extract. At best, he says, it is years away.
0:45:42 > 0:45:47But he goes on to say that if it comes good, we must be ready to
0:45:47 > 0:45:51take full advantage of it. That may be the signal for a new dash for
0:45:51 > 0:45:56gas that could transform the country's economy, but also our
0:45:56 > 0:46:00countryside. This is a huge energy policy issue
0:46:00 > 0:46:03we are talking about here. We are also told that the Government is
0:46:03 > 0:46:07going to make an announcement pretty soon on whether to approve
0:46:07 > 0:46:15new drilling applications. Your constituency seems to be sitting on
0:46:15 > 0:46:20some of this shale gas. Should we had -- go-ahead and exploit them?
0:46:20 > 0:46:23It would be a new name for people, the Gainsborough trough, and I
0:46:23 > 0:46:29don't think many people have heard that term before. I have got an
0:46:29 > 0:46:32open mind on whether this is usable or not. I have an open mind. I have
0:46:32 > 0:46:37got a lot of fears about the potential for water pollution. In
0:46:37 > 0:46:42my area, the water tables and linkage in, this is critical water
0:46:42 > 0:46:46- this is water that we are using all the time. So, there are dangers
0:46:46 > 0:46:51that. But think what is important is the public are engaged in the
0:46:51 > 0:46:54debate. People in my area do not know that there is this possibility,
0:46:54 > 0:46:58whether it is an opportunity or a threat, and they need to be able to
0:46:58 > 0:47:01participate in that debate, rather than the Government are jumping
0:47:01 > 0:47:06ahead without them knowing. That is why I welcome your reporting on it
0:47:06 > 0:47:11today. David didn't it, is the Government likely to jump ahead on
0:47:11 > 0:47:15such a key issue? Given all those pollution concerns as well. We have
0:47:15 > 0:47:18to look at all energy sources, and I would sooner see this in
0:47:18 > 0:47:22operation than these giant windmills on shore, which I think
0:47:22 > 0:47:26are inefficient, and against which there has been quite a reaction.
0:47:26 > 0:47:31The problem will be if we have communities that find methane gas,
0:47:31 > 0:47:34out of the taps, as has happened in America. We need to have tougher
0:47:35 > 0:47:38regulations than in the US, but we can't ignore eight times the
0:47:38 > 0:47:42reserves of the North Sea if they are unsure. How do we get that
0:47:42 > 0:47:47assurance? How do we assure those residents who might be living on
0:47:47 > 0:47:55some of those huge reserves of shale gas? You either trial away
0:47:55 > 0:47:59from people's homes, or you have tougher regulations. Sensible
0:47:59 > 0:48:03regulations to reassure communities. We are in a wild now where energy
0:48:03 > 0:48:06is at a premium. Prices have gone through the roof. We have to look
0:48:06 > 0:48:11at all possible opportunities. have seen battle prices go through
0:48:12 > 0:48:15the roof over the last week caused it. John Mann, you heard Alan
0:48:15 > 0:48:20Simpson their who said that the toxic waste from drilling could
0:48:20 > 0:48:25pose a huge environmental problem. The danger of water contamination
0:48:25 > 0:48:29clearly is the problem with shale gas and specifically with fracking
0:48:29 > 0:48:33- the process to get it. But we should bear in mind, there is a
0:48:33 > 0:48:41range of other possibilities with energy in our area that is
0:48:41 > 0:48:44underground. We are using grand tours -- ground sauce heat pumps to
0:48:45 > 0:48:48draw heat to heat pensioners' homes already. It has been very
0:48:48 > 0:48:53successful. We need to be careful that we don't jump for what the
0:48:53 > 0:48:57energy companies say are the quick gains - bit games for them - and
0:48:57 > 0:49:00not put investment in the things which are slowly but surely working
0:49:00 > 0:49:07which are no risk to anyone, and are in fact free in terms of the
0:49:07 > 0:49:12energy bills. David, the National shale gas reserves dwarf those, we
0:49:13 > 0:49:17are told, of the North Sea. Surely there is going to be pressure on
0:49:17 > 0:49:21ministers are to exploit them, and it is going to become irresistible?
0:49:21 > 0:49:26We have to look at this massive resource. It does have quieted
0:49:26 > 0:49:30toxic process, but there should be ways of taking it forward safely.
0:49:30 > 0:49:34That is my concern. I don't think we can do everything from ground
0:49:34 > 0:49:39source heating. I think it is valuable in his plays, but this is
0:49:39 > 0:49:42a massive new source of power which the nation needs if it is to
0:49:42 > 0:49:46develop its industries and get people into work, and give them
0:49:46 > 0:49:51happy lives. John Mann, you have touched on it already, but how do
0:49:51 > 0:49:56we have that much wider public debate? By informing people, by
0:49:56 > 0:49:59allowing role -- local people to participate. Telling them the
0:49:59 > 0:50:04options. People will then discover themselves the pros and cons. But
0:50:04 > 0:50:07people need to know what is underground, what the Government is
0:50:07 > 0:50:11tentatively thinking about, and then we can have that open debate.
0:50:11 > 0:50:16That is what I would encourage. We can then make rational decisions
0:50:16 > 0:50:20with local people. And the prospect of being self-sufficient in gas?
0:50:20 > 0:50:26we can do that without any risk to local water supplies, I would be
0:50:26 > 0:50:29for it. Yes, it is part of our energy package. There are
0:50:29 > 0:50:33controversies in other areas, over nuclear power, but this is
0:50:33 > 0:50:36something that must be considered. Thank you very much indeed.
0:50:36 > 0:50:46Now it's time for our round-up of some of the other political stories
0:50:46 > 0:50:46
0:50:46 > 0:50:49in the East Midlands this week with The Conservative MP for North West
0:50:49 > 0:50:53Leicestershire, Andrew Bridgen, has called for an urgent debate on the
0:50:53 > 0:50:57state of the construction industry. His constituency has some of the
0:50:57 > 0:51:00largest brick factories in the country.
0:51:00 > 0:51:03Tory Party Chairman, Baroness Varsi, didn't take kindly to a suggestion
0:51:03 > 0:51:10that she was one of the reasons Roger Helmer has resigned as a
0:51:10 > 0:51:15Member of the European Parliament. I feel that it is no surprise that
0:51:15 > 0:51:18he has gone, and it may well be that his views really are more in
0:51:18 > 0:51:21tune with the party that he has now chosen to join.
0:51:21 > 0:51:25Derby councillors have approved a controversial application for a new
0:51:25 > 0:51:28mosque in Normanton. It'll include a 21 metre high minaret.
0:51:28 > 0:51:30Finally, plaudits from the Prime Minister for the work done by
0:51:30 > 0:51:38Nottingham North Labour MP, Graham Allen, on early intervention to
0:51:38 > 0:51:41help disadvantaged families. We are going to be setting up the early
0:51:41 > 0:51:44intervention foundation which will be funded in order to make the
0:51:44 > 0:51:51arguments that he has put very effectively, whichever side of the