:01:17. > :01:21.Here: Why do pupils in our county schools
:01:21. > :01:31.attract so much less funding than students in our big cities?
:01:31. > :01:31.
:01:31. > :37:39.Apology for the loss of subtitles for 2168 seconds
:37:39. > :37:42.And our MPs debate whether to Hello, I'm at John Hess, and our
:37:42. > :37:48.guests in the East Midlands are Vernon Coaker, the Labour MP for
:37:48. > :37:52.Gedling, and the Conservative MP for Loughborough, Nicky Morgan. Why
:37:52. > :37:56.is there such a gap between funding for county schools between City's
:37:56. > :38:00.cause? A Leicestershire council ahead to Whitehall to persuade his
:38:00. > :38:04.government colleagues to change the system. And in the Commons, East
:38:04. > :38:09.Midlands MPs on whether helping a loved one to die should be
:38:09. > :38:12.effectively decriminalised. First, a new approach to revenue
:38:12. > :38:16.raising by one of our councils. Charnwood Borough Council in
:38:16. > :38:21.Leicestershire hopes to raise �100,000 a year by selling off
:38:21. > :38:28.space on its museums, leisure centres for advertising. In an era
:38:28. > :38:31.of cuts, is this a partial solution? Vernon Coaker, is it?
:38:31. > :38:36.All councils are wrestling with the cuts, so they are looking at how to
:38:36. > :38:42.save money. They are looking at how to deal with the cuts. A council
:38:42. > :38:49.like John would are looking at a �2.5 million reduction, so they are
:38:49. > :38:55.looking at how to raise money. -- Charnwood. But it must be
:38:55. > :39:03.appropriate and both -- apply to a standard of practice will stop
:39:03. > :39:07.Nicky Morgan, what d'you think? It is a brilliant idea. It will
:39:07. > :39:12.give this this is an opportunity to talk about themselves, and we want
:39:12. > :39:18.people to be advertising and telling them what is going on. But
:39:18. > :39:24.it means tax can be kept a low, it can only be a good thing.
:39:24. > :39:30.�100,000 is a big ask? Yes, you could not only bring
:39:30. > :39:33.businesses in, bring up health authorities in, bring a leisure
:39:33. > :39:37.facilities into the council so that everything is provided over one
:39:37. > :39:42.roof. There are money-saving objectives.
:39:42. > :39:45.Where should it stop? I was told of a bankrupt town in Japan were the
:39:45. > :39:50.pick -- where the town is offering companies the chance to buy the
:39:50. > :39:55.name of the town. We could have a situation where the could have
:39:55. > :40:00.Bootsville or ExperianTown. You could have alcohol advertised
:40:00. > :40:04.outside schools. There is an opportunity here, but as I said in
:40:04. > :40:08.the introduction, what they said is that it has to conform to a code of
:40:08. > :40:16.practice and be appropriate. Nicky Morgan, where would you draw
:40:16. > :40:20.the line? Is there a conflict of interest?
:40:20. > :40:24.Yes, we do not want a situation where we have a town brought you
:40:24. > :40:28.buy a company, but any organisation will be looking at it assets and
:40:28. > :40:32.looking at how they can make these work. This is good news for
:40:32. > :40:36.taxpayers and businesses, a sensible move by the council.
:40:36. > :40:40.So we will not have counsellors excepting the sponsorship like
:40:40. > :40:46.footballers? No, there is a line, you're
:40:46. > :40:56.absolutely right. On a more serious note, this week,
:40:56. > :40:58.
:40:58. > :41:04.the Director of Public Prosecutions decided on a -- made a decision on
:41:04. > :41:10.the bringing the law on assisted suicide to Parliament.
:41:10. > :41:14.Suicide it was decriminalised, but it is an offence to a -- assisted
:41:15. > :41:19.suicide. It is a highly unusual events. I cannot myself think of a
:41:19. > :41:23.another example of whether it is a crime to assist someone into is a
:41:23. > :41:27.thing which is not a crime. But giving that assisting someone is an
:41:27. > :41:33.area potentially open to a good deal of abuse, it was thought right
:41:33. > :41:38.to make it a criminal offence. We are joined in our Leeds studio
:41:38. > :41:44.by Professor Ray Tallis, a chair of Healthcare Professionals for
:41:44. > :41:47.Assisted Dying. Thank you for joining us. Can I clarify that you
:41:47. > :41:52.must be delighted that the House of Commons discussed and debated this
:41:52. > :41:56.issue after such a wild? Absolutely. It is 50 years since
:41:56. > :42:00.there has been such a substantial debate in the House of Commons, and
:42:00. > :42:04.I think the unanimous support of the MPs for the guidelines was very
:42:04. > :42:08.encouraging indeed. What is your own experience dealing
:42:08. > :42:12.with families who have found themselves in this situation?
:42:12. > :42:16.I have always kept within the law and never been involved in assisted
:42:16. > :42:21.dying, but in my 37 years as a doctor, there are many cases when I
:42:21. > :42:26.thought it was a monstrous cruelty that patience who are mentally
:42:26. > :42:29.competent, who had symptoms that were not alleviated and were dying
:42:29. > :42:38.could not be helped to die. I thought it was craw, although I had
:42:38. > :42:42.to obey the law. -- thought it was crawl.
:42:42. > :42:47.Should we prosecute someone for helping someone to die?
:42:47. > :42:53.No, we should allow the law to take into account the specific
:42:53. > :42:57.circumstances of a case. People should only be prosecuted where
:42:57. > :43:01.there is a malicious Villa -- militias element. My constituents
:43:01. > :43:04.were concerned about what could happen if someone decided to help
:43:05. > :43:09.someone to commit suicide for the wrong reason.
:43:09. > :43:13.It is a reason that has crossed your desk?
:43:13. > :43:17.30 people have written to me, and it is a good subject to be debated.
:43:18. > :43:22.Many people are worried about legalisation, but a sun did support
:43:22. > :43:27.going further and wanted better guidelines. Most supported these
:43:27. > :43:31.guidelines. I think that is absolutely right,
:43:31. > :43:36.what the professor said. This is a hugely sensitive and emotive
:43:36. > :43:39.subject for people, they will be lots of people watching who have
:43:39. > :43:44.been in difficult situations, and I think what everybody wants is to
:43:44. > :43:48.get away situation when you do not have people prosecuted, and that is
:43:48. > :43:55.what the guidelines say. Where do you distinguish between
:43:55. > :43:59.assisting suicide and encouraging It is a situation where you do not
:43:59. > :44:03.want to prolong life unnecessarily. Allowing people to die be dignity
:44:03. > :44:07.is where the are trying to get to. Sometimes, the professionalism of
:44:07. > :44:10.the doctors in consultation with the family and other loved ones
:44:10. > :44:15.often leads to a situation where life is not unnecessarily prolonged,
:44:15. > :44:19.life is not a -- life is not all four at the end, and with proper
:44:19. > :44:24.care, you can actually arrive at a situation where loved ones can die
:44:24. > :44:29.with the dignity that we would all want for our own loved ones.
:44:29. > :44:34.Professor, what protection would you like to see for health care
:44:34. > :44:39.professionals? What should doctors At the moment, the situation is
:44:39. > :44:43.very unsatisfactory. One of the ironies of the guidelines is that
:44:43. > :44:49.any professional involvement will increase the chance of prosecution.
:44:49. > :44:52.It means that assisted dying is left as it were, to amateurs, and
:44:52. > :44:55.people have to take the burden of responsibility for assisting their
:44:55. > :44:58.loved ones to die. It must be appropriate that the professional
:44:58. > :45:04.should be involved, that they should not abandon the patient at
:45:04. > :45:10.this moment at -- of greater lead and leads the patients get on with
:45:10. > :45:15.it. -- of greater need. We need a law that will make assisted dying
:45:15. > :45:22.decriminalised under certain circumstances.
:45:22. > :45:25.Let me put that to Nicky Morgan. I think the professor is wrong. One
:45:25. > :45:33.of the things that he mentioned his palliative care. That is where
:45:33. > :45:38.professionals are most involved. We have wonderful hospices, and this
:45:38. > :45:42.is where we can help people to die and have a good death, and we do
:45:42. > :45:46.not talk about it enough in this country. I had a daughter write to
:45:46. > :45:50.me about this debate, and she's dead that because of her
:45:50. > :45:55.Hippocratic owed to -- Hippocratic oath to keep people alive, and I
:45:55. > :46:02.think she would be failing if she did not, and help people to end
:46:02. > :46:06.their lives. I think it is difficult to have am
:46:06. > :46:09.absolute law with respect to all of this, and I think the guidelines
:46:09. > :46:13.put forward were that it is virtually impossible in many
:46:13. > :46:19.situations for somebody to be prosecuted for allowing somebody to
:46:19. > :46:22.died with dignity, and I think in that situation, that if you allow
:46:22. > :46:26.commonsense and professionalism of the health professionals, but with
:46:26. > :46:30.the family and be loved ones, what we are seeing is people being
:46:30. > :46:35.allowed to die with that dignity that we all want.
:46:35. > :46:40.Let's go back to Leeds. You have heard from our two and lawmakers
:46:40. > :46:44.here. What do you think? A I am very disappointed. Many
:46:44. > :46:49.patients have the best palliative care, and I have worked with a very
:46:49. > :46:54.good ones, and they do not get the alleviation of their symptoms. Most
:46:54. > :46:59.care specialist except this. Referring to the Hippocratic Oath,
:46:59. > :47:07.we do not take that, we take the declaration of Geneva or the
:47:07. > :47:11.decoration of Helsinki, which does not prohibit assisted dying. One
:47:11. > :47:15.cannot walk away from people who are unable to get any kind of
:47:15. > :47:21.relief in the last few days of their life.
:47:21. > :47:25.We have to leave it there. Now to an issue that can pitch
:47:25. > :47:28.County against City, and we are not talking about football. The
:47:28. > :47:32.government is try to tackle the issue of alleged unfairness in
:47:32. > :47:35.school funding. There is a disparity did a -- between city and
:47:35. > :47:41.county spending throughout the region, especially in
:47:41. > :47:45.Leicestershire. Building for the future. It comes
:47:45. > :47:49.at a cost, and a complicated one at that.
:47:49. > :47:54.We want to make it simpler, so people can see what the criteria
:47:54. > :47:58.are and why their area receives the money that it does.
:47:58. > :48:02.At the moment, the government allocates school funding to local
:48:02. > :48:07.authorities per pupil, through a series of separate ring-fenced
:48:07. > :48:12.grants. This means a people in one area can get a dramatically
:48:12. > :48:18.different amounts of funding to his student elsewhere. Herein the East
:48:18. > :48:22.Midlands, it is our cities that are far better funded than our counties.
:48:22. > :48:26.This side of this sense we are in the county, on the other side it is
:48:26. > :48:34.a city. If we could lift our school and place it on this side of the
:48:34. > :48:38.fence, it would have a dramatic effect on funding, a difference of
:48:38. > :48:41.�240,000 per annum. I do not begrudge the scores on this side of
:48:42. > :48:49.the Fens any of that, however, think of the things we could do
:48:49. > :48:52.with that money. The Leicestershire councillor has
:48:52. > :48:56.taken the campaign for fairer funding to Whitehall.
:48:56. > :49:00.We are campaigning for an increase in to the money that comes into
:49:00. > :49:05.local authorities. Leicestershire County Council finds it self- at
:49:05. > :49:10.the bottom of the funding pile. We argue with the difference between
:49:10. > :49:16.us and other councils. Every pupil in the city of
:49:16. > :49:21.Nottingham get almost �1,000 more spent on him or her than their
:49:21. > :49:28.equivalent in Nottinghamshire. Derby gets just over �280 per pupil
:49:28. > :49:35.more than Derbyshire, and the City of Leicester get almost �900 more
:49:35. > :49:38.per pupil than Leicestershire. An advantage the City defence fiercely.
:49:38. > :49:42.My worry is that if Leicestershire were to receive more money from
:49:42. > :49:47.this government, they would be taking that money from authorities
:49:47. > :49:54.like Leicester City. That is simply not acceptable. The money should
:49:54. > :50:00.follow need. We have 18 of the -- we are a deprived city, the county
:50:01. > :50:05.however is not. This week, the government announced
:50:05. > :50:08.his latest debt in the reform of school funding. It is committed to
:50:08. > :50:14.simplify the system local authorities used to distribute
:50:14. > :50:17.money to schools, but a delayed any move to change the formula used to
:50:17. > :50:22.to calculate how much money local priorities get from Westminster to
:50:22. > :50:26.their pupils. How can it be fair for one school
:50:26. > :50:31.one side of the road to have primary aged children who are �900
:50:31. > :50:38.a year less well off than at the school on the opposite side of the
:50:38. > :50:42.road that belongs to the city? The system needs change.
:50:42. > :50:47.The government admits the current system is inconsistent and unfair.
:50:47. > :50:51.But, at a time of constrained finances, says it needs to make
:50:51. > :50:57.gradual progress towards reform. Critics argue these children could
:50:57. > :51:02.be picking up their GCSE results before there is any sense unsure
:51:02. > :51:06.change in the calculations for school funding.
:51:06. > :51:11.Nicky Morgan, has the government bottled out on this issue? They
:51:11. > :51:14.have shoved it into the political long grass, haven't they?
:51:14. > :51:18.This is the first government for 20 years to acknowledge the problem,
:51:18. > :51:22.and we are on the right track to realise that this is something that
:51:22. > :51:26.is not sustainable off-air for pupils in my constituency, or any
:51:26. > :51:33.of the county constituencies to be receiving so much less than people
:51:33. > :51:37.in the city. The defeat faculties is because of the economic climate.
:51:37. > :51:43.-- the difficulty is because of the economic climate. We would simply
:51:43. > :51:48.bring everyone up to the same level. But we are not in that climate.
:51:49. > :51:52.Let me put that to Vernon Coaker. It is a very long track that the
:51:52. > :51:55.government is on, and they are wrestling with the problem that
:51:55. > :51:58.different schools get a different amounts of money at different areas
:51:58. > :52:02.get different about, but what before Miller tries to do is
:52:02. > :52:07.reflect the different needs of pupils within those schools, how
:52:07. > :52:14.many free school meals, English as a second language. It is easy to
:52:14. > :52:19.say it is outrageous, when you actually tried to deal with debt...
:52:19. > :52:25.Not all city schools are the same. Not all the county's schools are in
:52:25. > :52:29.leafy, suburbia with rich kids. Is it fair to allocate funding on such
:52:29. > :52:34.a sweeping generalisations? That is why the government are
:52:34. > :52:38.looking to simplify the formula, we started to look at that as well,
:52:38. > :52:44.because we recognised that there are pockets of deprivation within a
:52:44. > :52:47.shire areas, and their role wealthy areas in the City. At the end of
:52:47. > :52:50.the day, you still have a problem about how you actually deal with
:52:50. > :52:55.some of these additional needs that some schools have over and above
:52:55. > :52:59.others, and that pits city against counties sometimes.
:52:59. > :53:03.Nicky Morgan, you must be the first two except that CDs course have
:53:03. > :53:08.higher pressures and costs. They will have more children that do not
:53:08. > :53:13.speak English, pupil turnover tends to be much higher, and they roar
:53:13. > :53:18.more kids from deprived backgrounds. -- city schools. Should they get
:53:18. > :53:23.more money from this cause? That is why we have introduced the
:53:23. > :53:27.people premium, and that is what that money is there for. What we
:53:27. > :53:31.are talking is a base funding which every pupil is entitled to receive
:53:31. > :53:36.a. Teachers are paid the same across the country, books and
:53:36. > :53:40.equipment costs of the same. It may be that in some city areas there
:53:40. > :53:45.has been more investment than in the county. Schools are responsible
:53:45. > :53:49.for the budget and have to find that money. I would disagree, and I
:53:49. > :53:53.would say that we do have deprivation in my constituency, I
:53:53. > :53:59.do not know Gedling well enough, but one of my head teachers came to
:53:59. > :54:04.me in an area that you would think looked fine, and she says they had
:54:04. > :54:08.real issues with pupils not ready to come to school.
:54:08. > :54:14.Why does Michael Gove leave it to the next Parliament?
:54:14. > :54:22.He said that there are 37 factors that are taking to a cat with
:54:22. > :54:28.funding, we will reduce that to 10. -- taking into account.
:54:28. > :54:32.You sign to this letter, didn't you? Someone is going to lose out.
:54:32. > :54:37.The people premium argument, the Institute of Fiscal Studies says
:54:37. > :54:41.large numbers of schools will lose out on that additional funding, so
:54:41. > :54:44.even that does not work. The government have picked this into
:54:44. > :54:49.the long grass, because when they have tried to deal with it, there
:54:49. > :54:54.are real problems, added comes down to how you ensure that schools with
:54:54. > :54:57.additional needs get the support they need. One way is that cities
:54:57. > :55:02.generally have more need than county areas.
:55:02. > :55:07.Is there an eerie at a -- an issue of deception, in that the Tories do
:55:07. > :55:11.not want to be seen to be taking us -- finding a way from inner-city
:55:11. > :55:15.schools to offer it to their Tory shires?
:55:15. > :55:19.That is something people are conscious of, but we have got to
:55:19. > :55:22.get over that. We have got to deal with the fact that there are a lot
:55:22. > :55:28.of the shire counties schools that have been underfunded for a long
:55:28. > :55:32.time. The gap has just been getting worse. We are not going to get
:55:32. > :55:36.their act if we do not tackle these difficult problems.
:55:36. > :55:41.As a former schools minister, Vernon Coaker, what should the
:55:41. > :55:45.government be doing? The amount of money going into
:55:45. > :55:51.education is being cut over the next four years. That puts pressure
:55:51. > :55:56.on schools. What we are seeing in my constituency is things like
:55:56. > :56:00.special-needs struggling as well. We will return to this issue. Thank
:56:00. > :56:10.you for joining us this lunchtime. It is time to round up some of the
:56:10. > :56:12.
:56:12. > :56:18.other political stories in the East Last week's Sunday Politics guest,
:56:18. > :56:24.John manner, but pass these on the national agenda when he asked the
:56:24. > :56:30.Chancellor when he last 81. I can't remember the last time I
:56:30. > :56:35.bought a pasty. That sums it up.
:56:35. > :56:40.Last month we revealed local anger at Leicester City Council's
:56:40. > :56:43.decision to put free travellers' site in one corner of the city. Now
:56:43. > :56:48.the mayor has agreed to put up a more extensive list of sites.
:56:49. > :56:51.Another pressure group we featured has been tried to stop not injured
:56:51. > :56:56.-- Nottinghamshire County Council Private Eye's a care home and it
:56:56. > :57:00.specialised dementia unit. The sale went home -- went through on Monday,
:57:00. > :57:03.but will it stay open beyond its obligatory three years? There is no
:57:03. > :57:07.let up for the leader of Leicestershire County Council over
:57:07. > :57:17.his expenses. Opposition councillors have called a vote of
:57:17. > :57:19.
:57:19. > :57:22.no confidence after Easter. There was not time to ask Nicky or