:01:33. > :01:36.In the East Midlands: Are some GPs being unfair to women
:01:36. > :01:46.who want abortions? And is the Government going cold on
:01:46. > :01:46.
:01:46. > :30:42.Apology for the loss of subtitles for 1735 seconds
:30:42. > :30:45.the electrification of Midland Hello, I'm Marie Ashby with the
:30:45. > :30:47.talking points in the East Midlands. Our guests this week need little
:30:47. > :30:49.introduction. Former Foreign Secretary Margaret Beckett is
:30:49. > :30:51.Labour MP for Derby South and Stephen Dorrell, Conservative MP
:30:51. > :30:54.for Charnwood, is chairman of the Health Select Committee.
:30:54. > :30:57.Coming up: East Midlands MPs combine forces to fight for Midland
:30:57. > :31:03.Mainline to be electrified. But is the Government going cold on the
:31:03. > :31:06.idea? And a reality check for the Lib Dems in one of our cities.
:31:07. > :31:09.First, an issue that always generates controversy - abortion.
:31:09. > :31:12.This week a Chesterfield surgery hit the headlines over a notice
:31:12. > :31:14.warning some of its doctors won't speak to patients about
:31:14. > :31:23.terminations or emergency contraception. So should GPs be
:31:23. > :31:29.free to exercise their conscience? Or are they overstepping the mark?
:31:29. > :31:32.Kate Smurthwaite from the Abortion Rights campaign is also with us.
:31:32. > :31:35.The surgery says the notice is there to save women the time and
:31:35. > :31:44.embarrassment of seeing a doctor who's not prepared to give them an
:31:44. > :31:48.abortion referral. What is the problem with that? People going
:31:48. > :31:52.into the surgery, it is shocking to see. You don't expect to see a sign
:31:52. > :31:55.of it says because of our religious backgrounds these other treatments
:31:55. > :31:59.you can and can't have had different doctors. There is
:32:00. > :32:03.something shocking about it. That said, we know that around the UK,
:32:03. > :32:07.around one in five doctors has an issue with termination and will not
:32:07. > :32:12.refer. We need to find some way that women can see doctors who are
:32:12. > :32:16.happy to give them the treatment they need. I am not 100 %
:32:16. > :32:19.comfortable of a sign in his surgery. I don't normally go into
:32:19. > :32:23.the doctors and explained my ailments to the receptionist. I
:32:23. > :32:27.wait for the privacy of a consultation room. Clearly, we need
:32:27. > :32:31.to let women know that if they are not going to get the treatment they
:32:31. > :32:35.want from one doctor, they can be referred. You can always ask for a
:32:35. > :32:42.female doctor or if you have a preference a witch doctor you see.
:32:42. > :32:48.That is useful. If I know there is a doctor that they think fair
:32:48. > :32:56.religious views are more important about my bodily autonomy, I don't
:32:56. > :32:59.want to see them about an ear infection even. Do you agree with
:32:59. > :33:01.Kate that the surgery is piling pressure on women who already have
:33:02. > :33:07.a difficult decision to make? have mixed feelings. It has always
:33:07. > :33:15.been the case that doctors have a right to say this is not something
:33:15. > :33:20.I personally am comfortable with. But they are not going to perform
:33:20. > :33:26.the abortion. Surely they should be able to give advice? Well, some
:33:26. > :33:33.people are not comfortable with that. Certainly, I'd take it Kate's
:33:33. > :33:36.point entirely, it is awkward for somebody. It would be particularly
:33:36. > :33:43.awkward to have that difficult conversation with a doctor who says,
:33:43. > :33:48.no, I want nothing to do with this. It is also a bit awkward to have to
:33:48. > :33:52.have this conversation with a receptionist. Maybe that is
:33:52. > :34:01.something that we ought to look out to try to ease that problem as much
:34:01. > :34:04.as possible, for both parties. is one thing that doctors might
:34:04. > :34:08.refuse to carry out abortions but surely they should not refuse to
:34:08. > :34:13.talk to a patient. I don't that -- I don't think that surgery is
:34:13. > :34:17.saying we refuse to talk. There are saying that if a patient has come
:34:17. > :34:27.in seeking a termination, it is probably in the interests of that
:34:27. > :34:33.patient as well ours of the doctor to avoid the circumstances. I think
:34:33. > :34:36.we're all agreeing that what we are looking for is a sympathetic way of
:34:36. > :34:39.ensuring that the necessary difficulty is avoided. Do you think
:34:39. > :34:45.doctors are taking their principles too far by refusing to see someone
:34:45. > :34:50.who wants abortion advice? It is a very long-standing convention, as I
:34:50. > :34:54.understand it. There has been an acceptance and understanding for a
:34:54. > :34:58.very long time. Put the question of the other way. If someone has a
:34:58. > :35:00.conscientious objection to being involved in terminations, is that
:35:00. > :35:04.the reason why somebody who otherwise has a commitment to a
:35:04. > :35:08.medical career should be denied the opportunity of using their skills
:35:08. > :35:12.for the benefit of the patients? are not just talking about
:35:12. > :35:18.abortions. Some doctors will not give a emergency contraception like
:35:18. > :35:23.the morning-after pill. Doesn't that lead more women down the line
:35:23. > :35:27.of thinking the only thing that is available to me is it an issue?
:35:27. > :35:33.it shouldn't lead to that conclusion. But it could.
:35:33. > :35:37.shouldn't if there is any kind of advice given. The reason the
:35:37. > :35:41.emergency termination... The medical termination using a police
:35:41. > :35:47.regarded by the doctor as a reason for conscientious objection, and
:35:47. > :35:50.they regard that as a form of abortion. What do you think? It is
:35:50. > :35:56.not a form of abortion. All the medical evidence suggests it
:35:56. > :36:00.doesn't cause an embryo that has implanted and was ever to be
:36:00. > :36:05.discharged. Pit-stops implantation and fertilisation, which is what
:36:05. > :36:11.happens when you don't get pregnant. -- it stops. That is a side issue.
:36:11. > :36:13.The issue is we have quite high levels of doctors at their who
:36:13. > :36:17.choose to exercise his conscientious objection. You are
:36:18. > :36:21.right, it's been around for something -- for a long time but
:36:21. > :36:28.that doesn't mean it is acceptable. For a long time we sent small boys
:36:28. > :36:33.up chimneys. It doesn't mean that was a good idea. It is difficult
:36:33. > :36:36.because it is a slippery slope. There are people out there who have
:36:36. > :36:40.religious objections to blood transfusions and those who think
:36:40. > :36:45.that those who have a smoking addiction shouldn't be entitled to
:36:45. > :36:48.treatment. We must not go down a road where people say I don't want
:36:48. > :36:52.to be involved with that. We have seen a slip from abortion to this
:36:53. > :36:56.thing about emergency contraception. Sooner or later, people will talk
:36:56. > :37:01.about contraception in the same way. We have to stamp it out now. Should
:37:01. > :37:06.things stay as they are? I don't accept the argument that this is a
:37:06. > :37:12.slippery slope and what next? The truth is, this is a discrete
:37:12. > :37:17.subject that has been much fought over and this is the conclusion
:37:17. > :37:25.that has been arrived at. Perhaps too discreet. Maybe we should
:37:25. > :37:28.discuss it more. I'd been easily defined. I don't think there is any
:37:28. > :37:38.evidence that the boundaries of the debate are being shifted. Thanks
:37:38. > :37:40.
:37:40. > :37:42.for joining us. Next: our MP's combined forces this
:37:42. > :37:45.week to press the government to electrify the Midland Mainline.
:37:45. > :37:50.They practically queued up to support a motion from Loughborough
:37:50. > :37:55.MP, Nicky Morgan. It is about unfairness. There is �12 billion
:37:55. > :38:01.being invested in railways and only �200 million being invested in the
:38:01. > :38:05.Midland Main Line. It is likely to grow by 800,000 over the next 20
:38:05. > :38:09.years also so there is clearly a demand for the service but there is
:38:10. > :38:12.also a huge economic benefit. Upgrade of the Midland Main Line
:38:12. > :38:17.would bring huge benefits to Leicester for example and also I
:38:17. > :38:20.imagine, Loughborough. independent report prepared for the
:38:20. > :38:24.councils and executive estimated that up grading and electrifying
:38:24. > :38:27.the Midland Main Line would generate �450 million worth of
:38:27. > :38:31.wider economic benefits in terms of higher business productivity. This
:38:31. > :38:34.of course includes the creation of hundreds of jobs through
:38:34. > :38:38.construction activities and the refurbishment works on the trains
:38:38. > :38:41.themselves, as well as encouraging more businesses to relocate and
:38:41. > :38:46.invest around the Midland Main Line the corridor as journey times
:38:46. > :38:52.reduced. While the business case for London mainline metrication
:38:52. > :38:56.does indeed look impressive -- Midland Main Line, there can be no
:38:56. > :39:01.doubt that the project would be complex and challenging and it
:39:01. > :39:06.would be an expensive one to deliver. Network Rail is -- has
:39:06. > :39:09.estimated that the capital cost of electrification would be �530
:39:09. > :39:13.million, not including the other improvements referred to in the
:39:14. > :39:19.debate. Major engineering work would be required, just to make
:39:19. > :39:25.room for the overhead wires. Over 50 bridges would have to be rebuilt.
:39:25. > :39:29.Not so long ago... Theresa Villiers accepted the case for improving the
:39:29. > :39:34.line. Now, looking at that, it looks like she is not so sure.
:39:34. > :39:37.all know that we live in very straitened circumstances of the
:39:37. > :39:42.burden of proof on people who are arguing, as we all are, the case
:39:42. > :39:51.for this investment has got somewhat more difficult because of
:39:51. > :40:00.the circumstance. There seemed to be a lot of yes but so. -- yes,
:40:00. > :40:04.buts... That figure covers the cost of the new bridges and the extra
:40:04. > :40:07.gauge. The question is whether this is an investment that delivers a
:40:08. > :40:12.return both in terms of the improved rail performance and in
:40:12. > :40:17.terms of wider economic performance. The answer is that it does. Do you
:40:17. > :40:24.get the feeling that she has already made up her mind? I cannot
:40:24. > :40:27.remember a time when every MP, the length of the Midland Main Line,
:40:27. > :40:37.didn't support electrification and I've never met an MP from that area
:40:37. > :40:40.
:40:40. > :40:43.who could understand why it has ever gone ahead. I think Stephen is
:40:43. > :40:48.right. It is likely to be a question of money. The fact is, why
:40:48. > :40:52.has it never, in all these years, been a high priority project? A
:40:52. > :40:55.remember once being told, we were all told, that it was because there
:40:55. > :40:58.were a lot of business users on the Midland Main Line. You would think
:40:58. > :41:03.that would be a better reason for it to be done but somehow, it has
:41:03. > :41:12.never happened. I hope before I leave politics that it will happen.
:41:12. > :41:15.That is a challenge! It seems grossly unfair that according to
:41:15. > :41:18.Sir Alan Meale the East Midlands has received only �200 million of
:41:18. > :41:21.the �12 billion invested in rail networks. That is a way of looking
:41:21. > :41:25.at it. I prefer personally the approach that simply says, let's
:41:25. > :41:29.look at this as a discrete project. It delivers a return to rail users
:41:29. > :41:36.and a return to the wider economic benefit of their communities on the
:41:36. > :41:40.line. That by itself is an argument for doing it. It does seem that
:41:40. > :41:44.�500 million seems a small price to pay. It sounds ridiculous, �500
:41:44. > :41:48.million! But look what we get back from it is what people are saying.
:41:48. > :41:52.It's a big project, there is no question of that. If you look
:41:52. > :41:57.around the country of Investment taking place in Israel, in other
:41:57. > :42:06.parts of the country, it is very hard to understand why this has not
:42:06. > :42:12.been a higher priority. -- Investment taking place on the
:42:12. > :42:18.railway. You can see from the film you have shown, there were a number
:42:18. > :42:22.of East Midlands MPs present at that debate to express support.
:42:22. > :42:27.Margaret, myself, the majority of the East Midlands MPs have written
:42:27. > :42:37.to ministers and have made the case. That we will go on doing. Is it a
:42:37. > :42:38.
:42:38. > :42:41.question of keeping on going? keeping nagging away!
:42:41. > :42:45.Next, in less than two weeks, voters in one of our cities will be
:42:45. > :42:53.heading for the polls. And it could mean the end for the only Tory, Lib
:42:53. > :42:55.Dem Coalition in the region. It may not have the chandeliers and
:42:55. > :42:58.mahogany furniture of the cabinet room in Number 10 but Derby's
:42:58. > :43:01.cabinet does have plenty in common with David Cameron's. There's one
:43:01. > :43:04.big difference though. While Ed Miliband has to put up with the
:43:04. > :43:10.status quo until 2015, in Derby, there are elections almost every
:43:10. > :43:13.year. And this time, power is in the balance. The manifestos for
:43:13. > :43:19.Derby may reveal something about the way each party is treating this
:43:19. > :43:22.election. This is the Conservatives won. It is 12 pages long. The Lib
:43:22. > :43:28.Dems manifesto is eight pages long. Labour's manifesto is one piece of
:43:28. > :43:31.paper. You can never take the election for granted. You need to
:43:31. > :43:36.get out on the doorstep, secured a promise of individuals to vote for
:43:36. > :43:40.you, make sure all polling day that they are going out and voting for
:43:40. > :43:44.you. The reason our manifesto is short is we want to over deliver
:43:44. > :43:48.and and a promise. A let's look at the numbers. To win outright
:43:49. > :43:52.control of the Council, you need 26 councillors. Labour are close to
:43:52. > :43:56.that magic number, they have got 22 at the moment. They tell me they
:43:56. > :44:03.are pretty confident of picking up at least before macro they need for
:44:03. > :44:07.a majority. Privately, the kiss it is think they will... They hope
:44:07. > :44:10.that Labour's gains will not come from them but for the Lib-Dems and
:44:10. > :44:14.said. The Lib Dems are the smallest party at the moment with 12
:44:14. > :44:18.councillors but they have to defend of those seats this year. If last
:44:18. > :44:24.year's results were repeated again this year, it could be a very bad
:44:24. > :44:27.fear for the did Dems. I think things have moved on a lot the last
:44:27. > :44:31.12 months. We've been out for the doors, telling people what they
:44:31. > :44:34.have been doing and everything is still to play for. We've got a
:44:35. > :44:39.couple of weeks to go. The signs are out there on the doorstep have
:44:39. > :44:42.been positive. Like their coalition partners, the Conservatives are
:44:42. > :44:45.keen to highlight the big regeneration projects they have
:44:45. > :44:51.invested in. But will this big- spending be enough to impress
:44:51. > :44:54.voters? What matters is stability and investors and businesses having
:44:54. > :44:58.confidence in the council administration. I think they have
:44:58. > :45:03.been reasonably confident and happy with the coalition administration
:45:03. > :45:13.as we've had it. From my point of view, I would prefer an all-out
:45:13. > :45:14.
:45:14. > :45:17.Conservative administration. What of the smaller parties? Could they
:45:17. > :45:21.get their only George Galloway? They are putting up far more
:45:22. > :45:25.candidates between them than they have in any recent election.
:45:26. > :45:29.Council budgets will fall again next year of the year after. With
:45:30. > :45:33.the Conservatives and the Lib-Dems are promising a third council tax
:45:33. > :45:37.freeze on top. With so little wriggle room, you have to wonder
:45:37. > :45:42.whether being in charge of their local council right now as much fun.
:45:42. > :45:45.But local politics isn't the only game being played here. Unlike its
:45:45. > :45:49.neighbours, Derby is not being asked if it wants an elected mayor.
:45:49. > :45:53.It is not getting a local enterprise zone either. For a city
:45:53. > :45:57.that can sometimes feel like its football club is a championship
:45:57. > :46:01.side rather than a Premier League One, on 3rd May at least, Derby
:46:01. > :46:06.will be in the FA Cup final politically speaking. You can be
:46:06. > :46:09.sure if Labour win, Ed Miliband will hail it as the start of a
:46:09. > :46:19.winning streak. If the coalition can hold them off, you will hear
:46:19. > :46:21.
:46:22. > :46:24.the cheers from Westminster all the way up the motorway.
:46:24. > :46:27.Well as Chris Doidge made clear, unlike Leicester and Nottingham who
:46:27. > :46:30.have elections every four years, Derby has three every four years. A
:46:30. > :46:33.recipe for greater democracy or instability? One for you to answer,
:46:33. > :46:36.Margaret. There are different views but I have always been in favour of
:46:36. > :46:39.the electorate having an opportunity every year to take some
:46:39. > :46:43.decisions and to influence what happens, instead of being stuck
:46:44. > :46:48.with one outcome over that whole period. What other benefit would
:46:48. > :46:54.there be to that system? It gives you a chance for people to reflect
:46:54. > :47:00.the mood of how things are going. For example, a few years ago, we
:47:00. > :47:04.had a group that were elected to lead the council who made various
:47:04. > :47:09.promises and which had gone within days, almost, of the local election.
:47:09. > :47:12.The following year, the electorate had a chance to respond. Having
:47:12. > :47:17.elections every year makes councillors more accountable,
:47:17. > :47:21.doesn't it? The other argument is that at a time when local elections
:47:21. > :47:24.are often driven by reactions to national events and opinion polls,
:47:24. > :47:27.it smooths out the effects of the swings around public opinion,
:47:27. > :47:36.around the performance of the national government. As Margaret
:47:36. > :47:40.says, there are views from both parties, all parties. I don't think
:47:40. > :47:44.there's any great appetite to go down this road. I think we would
:47:44. > :47:48.prefer a system which says that we have local elections every four
:47:48. > :47:53.years and in the interim years, we have the county elections.
:47:53. > :47:56.don't fancy having a general election every year for example!
:47:56. > :48:00.There was a time in the 17th century when there was a strong
:48:00. > :48:04.argument for that but we didn't adopt it. Have we moved on from
:48:04. > :48:08.them? The other side of the coin, Margaret, is that if councils have
:48:08. > :48:11.to worry about elections every year, are they not much less likely to
:48:11. > :48:15.make tough decisions which would make themselves unpopular with the
:48:15. > :48:19.electorate? I don't think that it necessarily follows. Councillors
:48:19. > :48:24.who are looking to the long-term interests of the place they are
:48:24. > :48:29.elected to help to run the will be prepared to take those decisions,
:48:29. > :48:32.and have, from time to time. What it does mean is that they are
:48:32. > :48:39.perhaps a bit more responsive to the electorate than they would
:48:39. > :48:42.otherwise be. And that has to be a good thing. Of course it is a good
:48:42. > :48:45.thing that councillors are responsive to the electorate. I
:48:45. > :48:48.don't think you necessarily have to have annual elections to focus the
:48:48. > :48:58.minds of elected officials on the fact that one day they will face
:48:58. > :49:00.
:49:00. > :49:04.the voters in the ballot box. Just time to update you on some of
:49:04. > :49:07.the other stories making the news in the East Midlands this week in
:49:07. > :49:10.Sixty Seconds, with Our Political Editor John Hess.
:49:10. > :49:13.The GMB Union is holding meetings with BMI over the number of jobs
:49:13. > :49:15.under threat as a result of the proposed takeover by British
:49:16. > :49:18.Airways.The union estimates three hundred jobs could go at BMI's
:49:18. > :49:23.headquarters and more than a hundred and fifty in its
:49:23. > :49:25.maintenance hangars at East Midlands Airport. Angry
:49:25. > :49:28.demonstrators made their presence felt at a meeting of Derbyshire
:49:28. > :49:30.County Council.They were protesting against cuts which they claim would
:49:30. > :49:37.decimate youth services.The council wants charities and other groups to
:49:37. > :49:41.get involved. It'll review its policy next month. David Parsons
:49:41. > :49:43.wins confidence vote. The leader of the Conservative majority in
:49:43. > :49:46.Leicestershire, David Parsons, has survived a no confidence motion
:49:46. > :49:53.brought by Labour and Lib Dem councillors. He's currently being
:49:53. > :49:59.investigated over his expenses claims. Finally, VAT on warm
:49:59. > :50:02.pasties is something of a hot potato for the Government. Now
:50:02. > :50:12.Leicester South MP, Jon Ashworth, wants assurances that we won't be
:50:12. > :50:18.