:01:45. > :01:49.Here, is it about time the government decided how we fund
:01:49. > :01:59.adults social care? And as an independent review starting to MPs'
:01:59. > :01:59.
:01:59. > :35:20.Apology for the loss of subtitles for 2001 seconds
:35:20. > :35:24.pay, what do you think they are Hello, I'm at Marie Ashby with the
:35:24. > :35:29.stories for the East Midlands. My guests are the shadow health
:35:29. > :35:33.minister Liz Kendall, the Labour MP for Leicester West, and the
:35:33. > :35:36.Conservative MP for Erewash, Jessica Lee. Later, as an
:35:36. > :35:41.independent panel tries to work out what we should pay MPs, we asked
:35:41. > :35:45.some of you what you think they are worth. And if you think MPs get
:35:45. > :35:50.worse treatment from the media these days, think again.
:35:50. > :35:55.First, the vexed question of how we fund care for the elderly.
:35:55. > :35:59.According to latest forecasts, the number of people over 85 will
:35:59. > :36:03.double by 2030, but despite growing pressure from charities, councils
:36:03. > :36:08.and pensioners' groups, the Queen's speech failed to address the issue
:36:08. > :36:12.of funding. Jessica Lee, how much more time do you need to come up
:36:12. > :36:17.with the answer to this? I think there has been some good progress
:36:17. > :36:20.on this under a coalition government. It was one of the first
:36:20. > :36:23.reports commissioned by the coalition. We need to look at this
:36:23. > :36:27.issue. It is an issue that has been brushed under the carpet for too
:36:27. > :36:32.long. So on people say that is still happening because you are not
:36:32. > :36:36.addressing funding, the most fundamental part of this. I do not
:36:36. > :36:40.accept that. I think it is right that we now have a situation where
:36:40. > :36:44.there is an opportunity for pre- legislative scrutiny by people with
:36:45. > :36:48.so much to offer - expertise, interest groups and so on. It is
:36:48. > :36:52.now the time to have that conversation so that we can all
:36:52. > :36:57.contribute and get the situation right. You keep scrutinising. How
:36:57. > :37:01.much more time does that take before we can talk about the gritty
:37:01. > :37:06.issue of funding. A I don't accept there has been a delay. This is the
:37:06. > :37:11.biggest overhaul for 60 years on social care. It is crucial that we
:37:12. > :37:15.get it spot on. We need to not cross the issue. -- Roche the issue.
:37:15. > :37:19.It has been a priority in the coalition government to get to
:37:19. > :37:22.grips with this and we know it is going to be a cross party piece of
:37:22. > :37:30.work and I am sure the parties will work together to come up with a
:37:30. > :37:35.long-term solution. She says it is a priority. That is not true. In
:37:35. > :37:39.2010, David Cameron and Nick Clegg promised to legislate in this
:37:39. > :37:44.Parliament on a future legal framework for adult social care and
:37:44. > :37:48.a financial social framework. That has been broken. This issue is
:37:48. > :37:52.really too urgent and too important to kick into the long grass. You
:37:52. > :37:57.may remember Labour put forward proposals for changing the way care
:37:57. > :38:01.services are provided and funded just before the last election. We
:38:01. > :38:06.tried to get cross-party agreement, we did not succeed. We are
:38:06. > :38:11.determined to try again now. Elm -- Ed Miliband called for cross-party
:38:11. > :38:15.talks. We are determined to play a full part in that. One newspaper
:38:15. > :38:20.reported this week that you are pulling out of cross-party talks.
:38:20. > :38:24.Absolutely not true. Absolutely not true. We initiated the talks, we
:38:25. > :38:28.are in the talks and are pushing for progress on the talks.
:38:28. > :38:32.leading member of the Dilnot Commission, Lord Warner, has said
:38:32. > :38:36.it is time to take it out of the hands of people like yourself and
:38:36. > :38:41.Andrew Lansley and make it the responsibility of David Cameron,
:38:41. > :38:45.the shadow chancellor, Ed Miliband, George Osborne and Ed Balls. He
:38:45. > :38:49.says it is the only way to get it sorted out. One need have the
:38:49. > :38:53.leaders of the parties, as well as the people involved in the health
:38:53. > :38:57.teams involved. -- we need. We have been asking for that from the
:38:57. > :39:02.government and I hope they respond to that request. We will have to
:39:02. > :39:06.find a new way to fund care in future. That means the Treasury has
:39:06. > :39:11.got to be involved. And it is time the Prime Minister got involved,
:39:11. > :39:16.isn't it? The Prime Minister has raised this issue on many occasions.
:39:16. > :39:19.It has been a priority. Not the funding. All politicians feel
:39:19. > :39:23.really strongly about it. We all have families and know the
:39:23. > :39:28.consequences of elderly relatives. We are all going to be there one
:39:28. > :39:36.day! Precisely. It is now urgent and I think it was not dealt with
:39:36. > :39:42.historically but I am pleased now... We tried, just before the election.
:39:42. > :39:46.I think there is now or will. the Dilnot Commission suggested a
:39:46. > :39:49.way out of this last year. It said there should be a cap of �35,000 on
:39:49. > :39:54.the amount anyone should pay towards their social care before
:39:54. > :39:59.the state picks up the bill. What is wrong with that? The entire
:39:59. > :40:04.point of getting the Dilnot report was to review it. We now have that
:40:04. > :40:08.opportunity. All parties need to get together at... This is talking
:40:08. > :40:13.about funding but the bill is only about services. It is not about
:40:13. > :40:18.funding. The only thing in the Queen's Speech was a draft Bill on
:40:18. > :40:22.how services are provided, not funded. That really is not a point
:40:22. > :40:28.here. We all know the reality of this is it is not only services and
:40:28. > :40:31.how they are provided but how it is funded. I am not -- I am confident
:40:31. > :40:35.that that will be featured in a huge way in the cross-party
:40:35. > :40:42.discussions. Dilnot also recommended nobody should pay
:40:42. > :40:46.anything towards their care in an old people's home if they have less
:40:46. > :40:50.than �100,000. Some people would say that is too generous already.
:40:50. > :40:53.Dilnot was trying to get a balance between enabling people not to face
:40:53. > :40:58.catastrophic costs, where they end up losing their home, but also
:40:58. > :41:02.making sure people on lower incomes actually benefit from this, too. It
:41:02. > :41:07.was a balance we have warmly welcomed. Dilnot is the best chance
:41:07. > :41:11.we have had been a very long time to try and get an agreement. I am
:41:11. > :41:14.involved in those cross-party talks and we are playing a full part. I
:41:14. > :41:20.want to see David Cameron and George Osborne committing to
:41:21. > :41:24.funding. It is an issue that needs to be discussed. Thank you. After
:41:25. > :41:29.the controversy over MPs' expenses, Independent Parliamentary Standards
:41:29. > :41:34.Authority is gritting its teeth and looking into it MPs' pay. We have
:41:34. > :41:38.been to Ashby the la Zouch to see if you think MPs are good value for
:41:38. > :41:44.the �65,000 they get now. It is a lot but they have got a lot of
:41:44. > :41:48.responsibility, and they make a lot of decisions that make -- that
:41:48. > :41:54.affect everybody, so I don't think it is too much. A lot of people and
:41:54. > :41:58.that - doctors - and if you want the right people in the right job,
:41:58. > :42:03.they should have reasonable amount of paid. When you compare them to
:42:03. > :42:11.nurses, it is far too much. Look at their pay a dense C E Os of
:42:11. > :42:14.corporations. You could say they are not paid enough. -- against.
:42:15. > :42:19.they have an increased rate of pay, they will not have to rely on
:42:19. > :42:23.expenses as they do at a moment. They have got a tough job on their
:42:23. > :42:27.hands, so I think it is reasonable. Whatever you pay them, they will
:42:27. > :42:32.get criticised for stopped they are paid far too much for what they do
:42:32. > :42:35.for the country, which is nothing. A nice raised eyebrow at the end.
:42:35. > :42:41.What do you say to that last lady who thinks you get far too much
:42:41. > :42:47.already? A we do get a very good salary. We get paid over �65,000 a
:42:47. > :42:52.year, and when you think that the average salary is �26,000 a year, I
:42:52. > :42:57.do not want to see MPs... Would you be prepared to take less? Yes.
:42:57. > :43:03.lot of people think �65,000 is not actually a lot of money for the
:43:03. > :43:12.responsibility that you have. Does that come as a pleasant surprise?
:43:12. > :43:14.think the whole issue of pay is not now in our hands and is now so and
:43:14. > :43:17.so that -- subject to Independent Parliamentary Standards Authority
:43:17. > :43:22.to review, which makes it much more comfortable than having regular
:43:22. > :43:28.debates in the House of Commons. It is interesting that a man who said
:43:28. > :43:32.if you get a decent salary you do not have to rely on expenses - that
:43:32. > :43:36.was a polite way of putting it, wasn't it? People from all
:43:36. > :43:40.backgrounds have to have a chance of becoming an MP so if you are
:43:40. > :43:44.living four days a week in London, as I do and those of us do, you
:43:44. > :43:48.need a proper system so that it is not only the very wealthy you can
:43:48. > :43:58.have has sent their praises. Jessica is right - this needs to be
:43:58. > :43:59.
:43:59. > :44:07.decided independently - but MPs need to be showing restraint. --
:44:07. > :44:09.not only be very wealthy who can have second houses. One of the
:44:09. > :44:16.ideas that the Independent Parliamentary Standards Authority
:44:16. > :44:22.is looking at is the state giving you a flat in London if you need
:44:22. > :44:26.one and she would be able to live there rent-free. No scope for abuse
:44:26. > :44:35.there, either, is there? As long as any system we have is transparent
:44:35. > :44:38.and clear, that is fine. Accommodation and bills are
:44:38. > :44:42.available on the Internet now. I am pleased there is a public
:44:42. > :44:45.consultation. I think it is going to be interesting to see what
:44:45. > :44:49.people come back with of what they say they would be most comfortable
:44:49. > :44:56.with. We will leave it to the independent authorities. They can
:44:56. > :45:00.tell us and we will get on with it. After the expenses scandal, the
:45:00. > :45:05.2010 intake feel that the less responsibility we have all this
:45:05. > :45:10.issue - and it must go to an independent body - the better.
:45:10. > :45:18.you did say that you are prepared to take less. How much less would
:45:18. > :45:23.you be prepared to take? -- lives. We end a very good salary. How much
:45:23. > :45:27.would you take a dip of? I have not bought of the exact amount. We are
:45:28. > :45:33.on a very good salary and I do not think we should be getting any more.
:45:33. > :45:36.We need to show restraint, just as everyone else is. It has been
:45:36. > :45:44.reported that the Governor wants to francs civil servants by ability.
:45:44. > :45:49.Why not apply that to MPs? -- government wants to took rate.
:45:49. > :45:52.There are some MPs to spend a lot of time in the chamber, others who
:45:53. > :45:57.do a lot of constituency work... it fair that those people get more
:45:57. > :46:02.if they are seen to be doing more? They do their job in different ways.
:46:02. > :46:07.That is one thing I have really noticed as being a new MP. I think
:46:07. > :46:10.the main thing is as long as you are accountable to the electorate,
:46:10. > :46:18.you can answer all those questions and are accountable for your time
:46:18. > :46:23.and responsibilities, that is the most import thing. Not analysing
:46:23. > :46:30.ability and priorities. How many hours do you both put in?
:46:30. > :46:34.relentless number. A have you added it up? No. It is every day. Well,
:46:34. > :46:42.it should be every day, shouldn't it? With the responsibilities that
:46:42. > :46:45.go with the job, you do not switch- off. It is not as angry voters to
:46:45. > :46:50.get and a politicians' skint - satirists can make their lives
:46:50. > :46:55.miserable, to, nobody more so than the 18th century cartoonist James
:46:55. > :46:57.Gillray. Robin Powell has been to exhibition at his work at the
:46:57. > :47:04.Nottingham Contemporary, and soon found there are many parallels to
:47:04. > :47:09.be drawn between now and then. James Gillray was, and surely still
:47:09. > :47:13.is, our greatest caricaturist. Such was his fame that the most avid
:47:13. > :47:17.collectors of his work included the great and the good he so
:47:17. > :47:23.mercilessly lampooned. So, what is it about his work that makes him so
:47:23. > :47:29.special? The visionary qualities of his composition is extraordinary.
:47:29. > :47:35.They are so real and we imagine the events of last week, great mock
:47:35. > :47:40.epics. They mix words with images. This not among cartoonists says
:47:40. > :47:44.that for many in his profession, especially political caricaturist,
:47:44. > :47:54.Gillray remains a source of inspiration. -- Nottingham a
:47:54. > :47:56.
:47:56. > :48:02.cartoonist. He invented all the devices used today and people like
:48:02. > :48:06.Steve Bell often pay homage to him. Gillray actually received a pension
:48:06. > :48:12.from the Tory party at the height of his career and there are plenty
:48:12. > :48:17.of works lampooning the Tories' rivals, the Wigs, particularly
:48:17. > :48:23.their leader. But Gillray also likes to poke fun at the Tory
:48:23. > :48:28.leader, as well. Here, he is seen mock-heroic be riding roughshod
:48:28. > :48:31.over the democratic process. It is probably fair to say Gillray
:48:31. > :48:38.himself did not have much time for politicians in general, regardless
:48:38. > :48:43.of their party label. What is very noticeable is that the issues
:48:44. > :48:48.Gillray explores are very similar to those in the news today. EU have
:48:48. > :48:54.Napoleon here a parent in a n nightmare to Admiral Nelson -- you
:48:54. > :48:59.have a Napoleon appearing in it and nightmare. In some way, we can see
:48:59. > :49:08.this sentiment in some of the cartoons of the Euro-sceptic press
:49:08. > :49:12.today. For me, the most fascinating part of the exhibition is this - it
:49:12. > :49:22.tells the story of an alliance that a merged in 18 a six. It is a
:49:22. > :49:25.coalition between the Tories and the Wigs. -- 1806. To paraphrase
:49:25. > :49:32.the Prime Minister of the day, everyone must share the pain that
:49:33. > :49:37.to do good for the country. We are all in this together. If it is any
:49:37. > :49:41.consolation to the leaders of today's coalition, their
:49:41. > :49:46.counterparts 200 years ago suffered far more ridicule than they do.
:49:46. > :49:52.This is my particular favourite and it spookily mirrors the current
:49:52. > :49:56.political climate, almost to a tee. We have the chance of the Exchequer
:49:57. > :50:01.spewing torrents of new taxes down on to the populace. And the
:50:02. > :50:10.politicians here gobbling up the new taxes. The hair powder tax, the
:50:10. > :50:14.son of tax - a bit like a granny tax and a pasty tax today. If you
:50:14. > :50:19.are feeling overtaxed yourself, the good news is that it in --
:50:19. > :50:22.admission to the exhibition is free. It looks very good and when you see
:50:22. > :50:28.some of those cartoons, you can't help but think that some
:50:28. > :50:32.politicians get off lightly these days. Well, he was the master of
:50:32. > :50:38.the art and as we saw from the film, he has been copied so many times
:50:38. > :50:44.since. It was pretty Bootle -- brittle times then. Some would
:50:45. > :50:49.argue it is still the same. Gillray was particularly fierce but some
:50:49. > :50:52.cartoonists still go for the jugular. Does that make you wince?
:50:52. > :50:57.There was a brilliant one by Steve Bell in the Guardian this week of
:50:57. > :51:02.the Queen during the Queen's Speech, saying, "at my government will
:51:02. > :51:06.achieve growth by making my subjects easier to sack," say it is
:51:06. > :51:13.not as the pictures but the words and sometimes they we beat
:51:14. > :51:19.encapsulate what people are thinking. -- really encapsulate.
:51:19. > :51:23.There is the humorous tinge but it always comes with a sharp edge.
:51:23. > :51:29.they dose so far sometimes that it is too far? David Cameron is not
:51:29. > :51:37.too keen on how he is but raged, with his eyes bulging and his head
:51:37. > :51:44.squeezed in at a condom. -- portrayed. I think as we have seen,
:51:44. > :51:49.the long history of this art will carry on. You say it was worse then.
:51:49. > :51:55.But now with the internet and Twitter, it is much more of a
:51:55. > :52:01.constant 24/7 environment we work in, and that can be as brutal.
:52:01. > :52:06.think about this -- the days of South Today. When you are satirised
:52:06. > :52:16.on national TV, haven't you arrived? - that the days of
:52:16. > :52:19.
:52:19. > :52:22.Spitting Image. What the best humorists do is pick a personal
:52:22. > :52:26.characteristic and there may exaggerate it. You need to keep
:52:26. > :52:36.your floors hidden! Now a round-up of the political stories in the
:52:36. > :52:38.
:52:38. > :52:44.A newer residents formed a human chain around the hospital as the
:52:44. > :52:49.part of their campaign to save its A&E department. -- new-look
:52:49. > :52:52.residents. Off-duty police officers
:52:53. > :52:57.demonstrated their anger in London over budget cuts and Benson changes.
:52:57. > :53:03.They get another opportunity from Tuesday, when the Police Federation
:53:03. > :53:07.holds its annual conference. -- pension changes. No other public
:53:07. > :53:09.service is being cut back to the extent the police is full stock the
:53:09. > :53:13.Labour majority in Derby will announce next week whether it is
:53:13. > :53:18.going ahead with the velodrome project. It has to decide if it is
:53:18. > :53:21.too late to pull out. A Leicester man is fuming after
:53:21. > :53:26.failing to outsmart no-smoking rules introduced by the City's
:53:26. > :53:31.former MP Patricia he would. He uses a battery-powered plastic
:53:31. > :53:38.cigarette which any dispensers nicotine, but staff at Air leading
:53:38. > :53:44.pub chain ordered him to use it outside. -- Patricia Hewitt.
:53:44. > :53:47.Liz, you represent Patricia Hewitt's old constituency Vostok if
:53:47. > :53:53.someone is exhaling steam from a battery operated cigarette, it is
:53:53. > :53:58.not the same as smoking one. It is not. Three cheers to him for trying
:53:58. > :54:02.to give up smoking, which is really hard. If you are a member of bar
:54:02. > :54:07.staff working in a busy pub, it can be hard to tell what might be a
:54:07. > :54:12.real cigarette and an electronic cigarette. My thoughts are with him,
:54:12. > :54:16.wishing him on with giving up smoking, but I understand why it is
:54:16. > :54:20.sometimes difficult for hard- pressed bar staff. Did they go too
:54:20. > :54:24.far forcing him outside? It sounds like there was a misunderstanding
:54:24. > :54:28.in what was happening. I think it is up to the bar staff and the
:54:28. > :54:33.managers to take their view about what is right for them and the
:54:33. > :54:43.people that visit their establishments. He is see it is
:54:43. > :54:51.difficult to distinguish between a real cigarette and an electronic
:54:51. > :54:56.one. We all join him in wishing him the best. Never give up giving up.
:54:56. > :55:00.They are very difficult to tell. They look really realistic. It