:01:37. > :01:43.Good morning and welcome to the And here, or will be anti-social
:01:43. > :01:53.behaviour reforms make life tougher for offenders? And is it time the
:01:53. > :01:53.
:01:53. > :29:51.Apology for the loss of subtitles for 1678 seconds
:29:51. > :29:54.number of ethnic minority MPs Hello, I'm Marie Ashby. Our guests
:29:54. > :29:57.this week are Anna Soubry, the Conservative MP for Broxtowe, and
:29:57. > :30:00.Toby Perkins, Labour MP for Chesterfield. Coming up: Keith Vaz
:30:00. > :30:03.reflects on 25 years as Leicester East MP. His highs and lows. And we
:30:03. > :30:06.ask if politicians need to work much harder to get more people from
:30:06. > :30:08.ethnic minorities into Parliament. First, the case of Fiona Pilkington,
:30:08. > :30:11.who killed herself and her daughter at Barwell in Leicestershire,
:30:11. > :30:14.shocked the nation. The family had suffered years of harassment
:30:14. > :30:17.despite making countless calls to the police for help. Now the
:30:17. > :30:19.Coalition has launched a raft of reforms to replace the
:30:19. > :30:26.controversial ASBO system and make the police more accountable to
:30:26. > :30:28.victims. So will they work? Earlier the chairman of the Nottinghamshire
:30:28. > :30:38.Police Federation Phill Matthews told our Political Editor John Hess
:30:38. > :30:39.
:30:39. > :30:41.that they ignore reality. I think it just shows a lack of
:30:41. > :30:47.understanding from the Home Secretary and Government about what
:30:47. > :30:53.we do at the moment. We at within the law. What does she think we can
:30:53. > :31:00.be forced to do that we are not doing at the moment? One is the
:31:00. > :31:03.ASBO effective enough? They were once they were in place. They were
:31:03. > :31:09.difficult and time-consuming to get. But once you got them in place they
:31:10. > :31:15.were quite effective. All this is happening against 20% cuts in
:31:15. > :31:21.police budgets? Yes. These are time-consuming to resolve and take
:31:21. > :31:26.a lot of time and effort from the officers. While you are cutting one
:31:26. > :31:30.in five officers from this county I do not think it will be achievable.
:31:30. > :31:35.What is morale light among your colleagues just now? Absolutely
:31:35. > :31:38.rock-bottom. The Home Secretary is not listening to the staff
:31:38. > :31:44.associations in this country. We have tried to consult and she has
:31:44. > :31:47.ignored everything we have had to save. A key plank of your govt's
:31:47. > :31:50.reforms is this so called Community trigger which would force police
:31:50. > :31:53.and councils to act if five households make a complaint. Phill
:31:53. > :31:56.Matthews says his officers already do that Phill Matthews has also
:31:56. > :32:05.told us there's a danger these reforms will take away officers
:32:05. > :32:09.ability to distinguish between what's serious and what isn't.
:32:09. > :32:13.have had constituents come to me and I have been very concerned
:32:13. > :32:19.about the stories they have to tell about when they are making
:32:19. > :32:25.complaints. Usually about groups of youths. I can think of one case
:32:25. > :32:30.that was clearly racially motivated. I had to intervene but as soon as I
:32:30. > :32:36.went to the senior inspector he took it very seriously and made
:32:36. > :32:46.officers at street level take it seriously. It is important police
:32:46. > :32:48.
:32:48. > :32:52.can make their own judgments. police are right to be concerned
:32:52. > :32:56.but they need a big change to the way they work and operate. You get
:32:56. > :33:00.some great police officers but you also get some of you, in my
:33:01. > :33:05.experience, do not always take the sort of action people want them to
:33:05. > :33:09.take an they should be taking. That leads to a number of people
:33:09. > :33:12.becoming increasingly cynical. We know that things are not being
:33:12. > :33:17.reported when they should be because when you ring the police
:33:17. > :33:21.they do not do anything about it. It is not simply about cuts but
:33:22. > :33:29.also about mind sets. These proposals are good because they put
:33:29. > :33:31.the victim at the heart of it. Police and other agencies in
:33:31. > :33:37.Leicestershire have learned some tough lessons from the Pilkingtons
:33:37. > :33:44.case. The government clearly believes other areas of the country
:33:44. > :33:49.now have to get the message too. When you are hearing from the
:33:49. > :33:54.police who are the experts dealing with these things every day on the
:33:54. > :33:59.ground, they say these proposals show that there is no understanding
:33:59. > :34:04.of policing. There is a replacement for the ASBO which will not even
:34:04. > :34:09.because people are to get a criminal record. It is a weakening.
:34:09. > :34:13.A message going out there that you can do best and not even get a
:34:13. > :34:17.criminal record. I think at the same time we are hearing about
:34:17. > :34:22.police cuts and that morale is through the floor, people are going
:34:22. > :34:28.to be pretty horrified. The message from Theresa May is that we are
:34:28. > :34:32.going to make its offer for offenders. When Toby says that
:34:32. > :34:37.people are not being given a criminal record, a criminal record
:34:37. > :34:41.when you are 14 or 15 unfortunately lives with you for the rest of your
:34:41. > :34:46.life. I am pleased that children will not get criminal records. I
:34:46. > :34:51.think that is right. That blights them for the rest of their lives,
:34:51. > :34:57.doesn't it? Isn't it a good thing that we do not give people criminal
:34:57. > :35:01.records? There was a case in Nottingham of someone who had an
:35:02. > :35:06.ASBO on two separate occasions and he abused it. He had ruined the
:35:06. > :35:14.lives of shopkeepers and now he is doing six months in jail. He would
:35:14. > :35:18.still be carrying on under the current system. If you commit a
:35:18. > :35:21.criminal offence you should be dealt with for that. One of the
:35:21. > :35:25.great treks that we are proposing is that you will be dealt with for
:35:25. > :35:30.the criminal offence but latched on to that will be the anti-social
:35:30. > :35:33.behaviour order but also address the reason be person committed that
:35:34. > :35:43.the fence in the first place which is something that did not happen
:35:43. > :35:47.before. A isn't it just a watered- down ASBO? It is not. It is about
:35:47. > :35:52.recognising that all sorts of anti- social behaviour comes in different
:35:52. > :35:59.shapes and sizes. It might be music played too loudly by neighbours or
:35:59. > :36:02.stones thrown at windows. It is a huge range of offences? What we are
:36:02. > :36:08.hearing from the police forces is that they do not think it is
:36:08. > :36:11.realistic. The reality that the police are facing is that there are
:36:11. > :36:21.16,000 less of them. They are increasingly stretched and the time
:36:21. > :36:33.
:36:33. > :36:35.that is going to be taken is not going to be realistic. Next month
:36:35. > :36:38.marks an important milestone for one of our leading Members of
:36:38. > :36:41.Parliament. It's 25 years, yes a quarter of a century, since Keith
:36:41. > :36:43.Vaz was first elected MP for Leicester East. Later we'll be
:36:43. > :36:45.discussing whether constituency parties should select more ethnic
:36:45. > :36:48.minority candidates to run for Parliament. First Eleanor Garnier
:36:48. > :36:52.has been talking to Keith Vaz about his achievements, and his regrets.
:36:52. > :36:55.The year was 1987 and Labour's Keith Vaz won the seat of Leicester
:36:55. > :37:05.East one of just four black and ethnic minority MPs to be elected
:37:05. > :37:05.
:37:05. > :37:08.that year. He was the first Asian MP since the 1920s and the first
:37:08. > :37:18.ever Asian Minister in the Commons when Tony Blair made him Minister
:37:18. > :37:31.
:37:31. > :37:41.for Europe. It was an immensely proud moment more for my family.
:37:41. > :37:46.
:37:46. > :37:49.Minister for justice and then Europe. Interesting going to summit
:37:49. > :37:55.meetings, strange I don't' think India has been admitted - what is
:37:55. > :37:58.that guy doing there? Keith Vaz first made his mark in Parliament
:37:58. > :38:00.as the outspoken supporter of people who'd lost money in the BCCI
:38:00. > :38:10.banking collapse, and those he confronted included the Bank of
:38:10. > :38:17.
:38:17. > :38:25.On the case have only just closed I am frustrated. It was a very long
:38:25. > :38:28.campaign. Those responsible were not brought to justice. He's also
:38:28. > :38:33.had an impact as Chair of the influential Home Affairs Select
:38:33. > :38:42.Committee a role that's seen his profile soar. But what's been the
:38:42. > :38:52.committee's biggest achievement? Probably it has been the phone
:38:52. > :39:00.
:39:00. > :39:03.hacking scanda. But there have also been other victories. Gurkah.
:39:03. > :39:06.There's a long list of celebrities Keith Vaz has been accused of
:39:06. > :39:16.courting he's also criticised for taking himself too seriously 18'05
:39:16. > :39:20.
:39:20. > :39:24.I was criticised for taking myself too seriously. You can be the most
:39:24. > :39:34.important man in the world but you still make mistakes and do things
:39:34. > :39:38.
:39:39. > :39:41.differently. In 2001 he was at the centre of a major controversy over
:39:41. > :39:47.his role in passport applications by two Indian businessmen - the
:39:47. > :39:51.Hinduja brothers - who helped fund the Millennium Dome. What one shd
:39:51. > :40:01.do in circumstances like that is pause and explain and I don't think
:40:01. > :40:08.
:40:08. > :40:18.That was a mistake in the way in which I handled it, I should have
:40:18. > :40:31.
:40:31. > :40:34.been better. If we lack judgement it's because the average person may
:40:34. > :40:44.not have chosen the right path - you learn from your mistakes. Of
:40:44. > :40:47.
:40:47. > :40:49.course I do - I've made lots of mistakes that I'd like to change.
:40:50. > :40:56.Through thick and thin he's retained the backing of his
:40:56. > :40:59.Leicester constituents winning 6 elections on the trot. But how can
:40:59. > :41:03.Parliament catch up with Leicester and become a better representation
:41:03. > :41:13.of the Country's ethnic makeup? think it will happen but it I don't
:41:13. > :41:13.
:41:13. > :41:16.think we need structural change. It has to be done through the
:41:16. > :41:19.political parties because you can only get to parliament through the
:41:19. > :41:23.one of the main two or three political parties. I think they
:41:23. > :41:33.have embraced the race agenda in a very positive way. What's left to
:41:33. > :41:43.
:41:43. > :41:45.achieve? You can't stop thinking about tomorrow there's more to be
:41:45. > :41:49.done, everyday, there's lots more to do, everyday there's another
:41:49. > :41:53.issue that has emerged, there is still a huge amount left to do
:41:53. > :42:03.after I'm finished perhaps when I'm done I'll be a journalist! Keith
:42:03. > :42:10.
:42:10. > :42:16.Vaz giving us an insight into his 25 years as an MP. I would like to
:42:16. > :42:20.applaud his service to this country not only in the word he has done
:42:20. > :42:27.but in inspiring ethnic-minority is to become elected representatives.
:42:27. > :42:33.We ought to have 60 or at 70 minority ethnic politicians sitting
:42:33. > :42:39.in Westminster. I am frustrated and impatient for representative
:42:39. > :42:43.democracy. Ideally urged the parties to select the deluge of
:42:43. > :42:49.talent that is in Leicester, my home town, and all around the
:42:49. > :42:57.country to make sure they get selected and elected and serve our
:42:57. > :43:02.society as Keith Vaz has done very well. There is a long way to goal.
:43:02. > :43:07.There is a huge way to go. If we are honest about it we have a real
:43:07. > :43:11.problem at the moment in politics. Denature and life of being an MP is
:43:11. > :43:18.such that there are not enough good people coming through from all
:43:19. > :43:25.walks of life. That is one of the key things I'd read with Keith Vaz.
:43:25. > :43:30.We want MPs that reflect real life, he is absolutely right. But is that
:43:30. > :43:39.really happening? You only became an MP at the last election, when
:43:39. > :43:45.you look around the Commons, do you see today's Britain reflected?
:43:45. > :43:50.someone remarked that Keith Vaz has been an massive help for other East
:43:50. > :43:57.Midlands MPs. I think in terms of the issue, the start of the
:43:57. > :44:02.question was slightly pessimistic. At the last General Election the
:44:02. > :44:06.number of ethnic-minority candidates almost doubled. There
:44:06. > :44:10.are 27 now it and it is right to be impatient, we need to do much
:44:10. > :44:15.better but at the same time we recognised that the Labour Party
:44:15. > :44:19.has a guarantee for an ethnic minority to get onto a very short
:44:19. > :44:24.list. We are seeing candidates coming through and I think we will
:44:24. > :44:33.continue to see improvements but we all need to put pressure on the
:44:33. > :44:38.parties to increase the pace of change. Deep female shortlist was
:44:38. > :44:45.pressed and we have had a great improvement in that case, should we
:44:45. > :44:49.go down the same line in this case? I absolutely. It is the only way
:44:49. > :44:52.democracies around the world can ensure that for a time limited
:44:52. > :44:56.period they will become representative of the people in
:44:56. > :45:02.this country. But once you have trained the structures, as we have
:45:02. > :45:07.seen time and again, the Labour Party, under Conservatives, the
:45:07. > :45:11.Conservatives made great strides in collecting 10 new black minority
:45:11. > :45:18.ethnic MPs but at the end of the day there is still a race penalty.
:45:18. > :45:23.The talent is not recognised. I know as a matter of fact there is a
:45:23. > :45:29.deluge of talent that needs to be recognised and tutored and given
:45:29. > :45:39.the basic opportunity so that they can fulfil their potential. It is
:45:39. > :45:40.
:45:40. > :45:44.not a lack of talent. His shortlisting the way to go? There
:45:44. > :45:50.is a very good argument that when you do it for a short period of
:45:50. > :45:55.time just to jump over this huge hurdle that we have, we do not have
:45:55. > :46:00.a parliament that begins to reflect modern Britain, I am not totally
:46:00. > :46:03.convinced but I have got an open mind. Both parties really do go out
:46:03. > :46:07.and make an effort to try to get people from all sorts of
:46:07. > :46:14.backgrounds involved in our party and we are not doing that very
:46:14. > :46:20.successfully. How can it be that Keith Vaz is our own minority MP in
:46:20. > :46:23.the whole of the East Midlands? know there is a large ethnic
:46:23. > :46:27.minority across the whole of the East Midlands saw two or may have
:46:27. > :46:31.one MP is very disappointing but at the same time you have to look at
:46:31. > :46:38.whatever methods are available to make Parliament more representative.
:46:38. > :46:46.That is about sex and race and also about people who did not go to
:46:46. > :46:48.university. I am one of the few who did not. We need to have less, if
:46:48. > :46:52.you are professional politicians. We want people who have done
:46:52. > :46:59.something else in their lives and then come into Parliament and have
:46:59. > :47:04.something more to add. You have been beating best drum for a long
:47:04. > :47:08.time but do you have any reason to be optimistic on this? I do for one
:47:08. > :47:14.principal reason. ICD talent every day that wants to come forward in
:47:14. > :47:19.spite of all the obstacles. What I am emerging -- urging political
:47:19. > :47:24.parties to do, it is in their interest, parties cannot win the
:47:24. > :47:29.next General Election unless the target black minority and ethnic
:47:29. > :47:35.communities to vote for them. People will vote for a political
:47:35. > :47:40.party when they know there is diversity of faces and views.
:47:40. > :47:43.if we do not get more candidates, what are the dangers? The danger is
:47:43. > :47:49.that people will switch off, they will say this democracy does not
:47:49. > :47:55.look like us or sound like us or reflect our views. What we need to
:47:55. > :48:00.do is Excite and engage. Everybody benefits from a diverse dynamic in
:48:00. > :48:05.Government that we can see. I hope you will consider standing for
:48:05. > :48:10.Parliament because we need people just like you. Thank you for
:48:10. > :48:20.joining us from London. Now time for a round-up of some of power
:48:20. > :48:33.
:48:33. > :48:36.other political stories in 60 seconds. You can't keep Barwell out
:48:36. > :48:40.of the news. A residents group is campaigning to stop a proposal by
:48:40. > :48:43.Hinckley and Bosworth to build more than 2,000 homes on the edge of the
:48:43. > :48:46.town. We're used to charting the rise of young politicians on the
:48:46. > :48:48.Sunday Politics. Not long ago we reported on Ian Campbell taking the
:48:49. > :48:52.chains of office in Retford. Now Peter Wildgoose has been elected
:48:52. > :48:55.Mayor of Matlock. He too is just 23. We also like to be there when the
:48:55. > :48:58.balloon goes up. Rutland and Melton MP, Alan Duncan,has persuaded REG
:48:58. > :49:06.Windpower to fly these blimps to demonstrate how high turbines
:49:06. > :49:09.planned for Ketton will reach. The final decision rests with council.
:49:09. > :49:13.Finally a Bulwell woman has smoked the most expensive cigarette of her
:49:13. > :49:23.life. Discarding a cigarette end has cost her a �600 fine and �200
:49:23. > :49:25.
:49:25. > :49:31.in costs after she failed to attend Nottingham court. And that is where