:01:38. > :01:41.In the East Midlands: More bobbies on the beat is that
:01:41. > :01:44.what you want? And with no Lib Dem candidates, who
:01:44. > :01:54.will pick up the floating votes in the Police and Crime Commissioner
:01:54. > :01:54.
:01:54. > :39:58.Apology for the loss of subtitles for 2284 seconds
:39:58. > :40:05.In the East Midlands: More bobbies on the beat is that
:40:05. > :40:09.what you want? Register and then there are enough on the streets and
:40:09. > :40:12.I would like to see more on the roads. They spend a lot of time in
:40:12. > :40:16.their cars. I don't think the police are accessible to people in
:40:16. > :40:18.their own homes. And with no Lib Dem candidates for
:40:18. > :40:21.Police and Crime Commissioners, who'll pick up their votes?
:40:21. > :40:25.I'm Marie Ashby. This week I'll be attempting to keep the peace with
:40:25. > :40:27.two MPs who are no strangers to law and order. Ken Clarke QC, the
:40:27. > :40:30.Conservative MP for Rushcliffe and until recently Justice Secretary.
:40:30. > :40:32.And in our London studio Keith Vaz, Labour MP for Leicester East, and
:40:32. > :40:37.chairman of the Home Affairs Select Committee.
:40:37. > :40:40.Welcome. First, let me come to you Ken Clarke. You're mentioned in a
:40:40. > :40:44.story today about Jimmy Saville. The Sunday Telegraph says you were
:40:44. > :40:47.in charge of health when he was appointed to a task force at
:40:47. > :40:53.Broadmoor. Were you aware of any of the allegations against him at the
:40:53. > :41:00.time? I don't think anybody wants until
:41:00. > :41:03.all of these stories about gossip in the BBC. I do recall being
:41:03. > :41:08.involved in the appointment. He had been working abroad will for some
:41:08. > :41:13.years apparent. It was at that time regarded as the public celebrity, a
:41:13. > :41:19.national hero, a man did untold charitable work. Until two months
:41:19. > :41:23.ago no politician or journalist would have dared to tackle Jimmy
:41:23. > :41:27.Savile. I may have been told about it but I really cannot remember.
:41:27. > :41:34.You had nothing to do with the appointment? I honestly cannot
:41:34. > :41:38.remember. It was not significant enough to stick in my mind. The
:41:38. > :41:41.papers today are talking about Edwina Currie and I don't know what
:41:41. > :41:45.she can remember. At the time it would not have created any interest.
:41:45. > :41:51.He had been done to Broadmoor for years and a stock that did not mind
:41:51. > :41:56.in having access and keys. 99% of the public thought he was a public
:41:56. > :42:01.figure doing charitable work. We will get back to the police and
:42:01. > :42:05.crime Commission elections. The Government says the role is all
:42:05. > :42:11.about accountability and making the police more efficient, isn't that a
:42:11. > :42:16.good way of doing it? Well, as you know, the Labour Party was against
:42:16. > :42:20.the election of police and crime commissioners. We are where we are
:42:20. > :42:25.an election will take place. What we need to do now is make sure we
:42:25. > :42:29.get a good set of people elected to these very important posts. They
:42:29. > :42:33.are going to be appointed chief constable, they are going to be
:42:33. > :42:37.dealing with the kind of complaints you have had on a programme as part
:42:37. > :42:43.of the package we have listened to. It is really important that we get
:42:43. > :42:48.there to turn up -- turnout up because I think the turnout will be
:42:48. > :42:50.alone. We will talk about an hour later. We must make sure everyone
:42:50. > :42:55.participates and they get the budget they need and they do their
:42:55. > :43:00.jobs well. That is what we need to do now because if we sit on the
:43:00. > :43:05.sidelines and carp, it will not help the process of getting...
:43:05. > :43:09.must get involved, that is what you are saying? Absolutely. Theresa May
:43:09. > :43:16.says this is an exciting time for Policing but she Constable's was so
:43:16. > :43:19.it is very difficult. How can we afford the expensive elections?
:43:19. > :43:23.is never a good time for the country but it is accelerating
:43:23. > :43:26.worth one reforms about public services. We are talking about more
:43:26. > :43:30.than �7 million just to hold the elections in in the East Midlands.
:43:30. > :43:34.You cannot just abandon public involvement in the police service
:43:34. > :43:38.for what is actually rather a small portion of the total budget for
:43:38. > :43:43.these things. We are reforming the police and others. It is no good
:43:43. > :43:47.just carrying on pouring money into work. We have staggering numbers of
:43:47. > :43:52.police man. Ever since we had the police in this country, ever since
:43:52. > :43:56.Sir Robert Peel, we happily donate it to the police force, community
:43:56. > :43:59.police, neighbourhood involvement. This is the most practical way of
:43:59. > :44:03.strengthening at and it enables people with an adequate interest of
:44:03. > :44:07.public affairs to start to give their views. So, these elections
:44:07. > :44:10.are happening and everybody needs to get involved.
:44:10. > :44:13.The Police and Crime Commissioner elections are taking place across
:44:13. > :44:16.the whole country. But what are the issues that matter here in the East
:44:16. > :44:18.Midlands? And what are the political questions still to be
:44:18. > :44:22.answered in our region? Our Political Editor, John Hess, has
:44:22. > :44:27.been been brushing up his detective skills to find out.
:44:27. > :44:33.This is the forensic labs at the University of Derby. This is where
:44:33. > :44:41.students learn all the CSI know how. We may need some forensic skills
:44:41. > :44:45.when it gets to next month's elections. To start with there is
:44:45. > :44:49.something with it. There is no mystery that there are no Liberal
:44:49. > :44:52.Democrat candidates standing in the East Midlands except for
:44:52. > :44:58.Northamptonshire. What will happen to all the Liberal Democrat voters?
:44:58. > :45:02.Let us take a closer look. In the last general election the Liberal
:45:02. > :45:06.Democrat share of the vote in the East Midlands was over 21%. In
:45:06. > :45:11.these elections the two main parties will be desperate to get
:45:11. > :45:17.that Liberal-Democrat coating boat -- floating vote. David Cameron has
:45:17. > :45:20.got his fingerprints and his footprint all over these elections.
:45:20. > :45:24.It is his big idea. He says it will make the police far more
:45:24. > :45:31.accountable and transparent. The big issue in this campaign is
:45:31. > :45:34.whether politics and Policing actually make for a good fit. A
:45:34. > :45:39.number of independents are standing. Could it be their breakthrough
:45:39. > :45:46.moment? These elections could end up at a missing person inquiry.
:45:46. > :45:56.There is real concern about the impact of the stay away both to her.
:45:56. > :45:56.
:45:56. > :46:00.-- voter. In Nottingham the mayoral referendum turnout was 23%. The AV
:46:01. > :46:07.referenda had turnout no more than 42% and both Poles were held on a
:46:07. > :46:12.warm and sunny day in her early May, not in the cold and dark of mid-
:46:12. > :46:16.November. Paul Holmes, you were a Liberal-
:46:17. > :46:21.Democrat MP for Chesterfield, who will the Liberal Democrat voters be
:46:21. > :46:25.opting for, what would be your advice? There is an assumption they
:46:25. > :46:29.will opt for anybody. The Liberal Democrats have opposed these
:46:30. > :46:34.elected commissioners and we think it is a bad system. I use saying
:46:34. > :46:37.that they should not vote at all? It I don't vote in this election it
:46:37. > :46:43.will be the first time since I was 18 and I really don't know what I
:46:43. > :46:47.will do it. I may will spoil my ballot paper and send it back. It
:46:47. > :46:51.is pathetic that we need these demagogues running police forces
:46:51. > :46:57.and politicising the system. I argued against it when it has in
:46:57. > :47:03.parliament and I am against it now. I would be against 41 people with
:47:03. > :47:06.no interest in public services. I owe think people should take the
:47:06. > :47:09.trouble to find out what the candidates are saying and take the
:47:09. > :47:13.opportunity to have a lame and who they can hold to account for the
:47:13. > :47:18.things about Policing which are not just the rest of particular
:47:18. > :47:21.criminals and prosecution. You cannot just reject the whole thing
:47:21. > :47:24.because the old police have parities were unknown to the
:47:24. > :47:28.general public. None of my constituents know of who is on the
:47:28. > :47:33.police authority and most people don't even know what the police
:47:34. > :47:37.authority is. This is an attempt to get reform subject to democratic
:47:37. > :47:42.with Bonn's ability. Key, are you prepared to pick up
:47:42. > :47:46.the floating voters? Absolutely. I am astonished that Paul says he
:47:46. > :47:50.will spoil his ballot paper. There is an election for a very important
:47:50. > :47:55.post and I think people ought to vote and participate. Can I pick up
:47:55. > :47:58.one. That Ken mentioned about the cost. This will cost �70 million
:47:58. > :48:04.owed rule and that would have meant, if it had not been spent on these
:48:04. > :48:06.elections, 3,000 extra police officers. I am not against what the
:48:06. > :48:10.Government is suggesting and my select committee have produced a
:48:10. > :48:15.number of reports on this. We need to look at a new landscape of
:48:15. > :48:19.Policing but what we actually need is to look at what we won police
:48:19. > :48:22.officers to do. We need a Royal Commission to look at the purpose
:48:22. > :48:27.of policing and this really ought to have happened before we had
:48:27. > :48:32.these elections because people need to deal what 21st century policing
:48:32. > :48:35.is all about. The way in which Policing has changed in the last
:48:35. > :48:41.few years has been pretty dramatic about thing that is what we need to
:48:41. > :48:44.do. It is going to cost an awful lot of money, more than �7 million
:48:44. > :48:48.just here in the East Midlands, when you could be using that money
:48:48. > :48:52.to have more officers on the streets. If you abandoned a general
:48:52. > :48:57.election the government would have more money to spend on sales are
:48:57. > :49:00.rising bus fares or something. If you are banned and local government
:49:00. > :49:05.elections the chief executive would have more money to spend a housing
:49:05. > :49:10.benefit. Less, if we are going to have cut let you buy up democratic
:49:10. > :49:17.accountability! The timing might not be right. Then I mean will --
:49:17. > :49:22.the timing will never be right. We have got to have modern policing.
:49:22. > :49:27.They are the last great unreformed public service, -- the last great
:49:27. > :49:31.unreformed public service. People have strong views. The police are
:49:31. > :49:35.ordinary systems -- citizens, involved in a local communities and
:49:35. > :49:40.it is time we got on with the elections. What has not happened is
:49:40. > :49:46.we have not had proper consultation with the Police Federation and some
:49:46. > :49:49.of those senior police officers. We have got the best police service in
:49:49. > :49:56.the world as Theresa May keeps reminding us. We should be
:49:56. > :50:00.consulting with them before we go on and try and have a completely
:50:00. > :50:05.new plan. There has been a lot of consultation with the Police
:50:05. > :50:07.Federation. When the police and crime Bill was going through
:50:07. > :50:12.Parliament in 2009 which had extensive evidence from G
:50:12. > :50:16.Constable's, the Police Federation and all sorts of things there has
:50:16. > :50:20.been all sorts of consultation. This is going to be a total flop,
:50:20. > :50:24.the public are not interested, the Government were not prepared to pay
:50:24. > :50:28.for the democratic election properly so why hold it? Keat is
:50:28. > :50:34.right in saying people -- Keat is not right in telling everyone
:50:34. > :50:37.should vote but if it is a flawed election people should protest.
:50:37. > :50:43.Boris Johnson interfered in what was happening in London in the
:50:43. > :50:49.police and announced there was nothing in it. Do we want 41 Police
:50:49. > :50:54.officers interfering with justice? All the evidence is that the public
:50:54. > :50:56.want independent candidates so that party politics does not regain.
:50:56. > :51:01.Labour candidates are standing on the understanding that they will
:51:01. > :51:05.fight the cuts. That is a very important issue. Of course we are
:51:05. > :51:08.going to have up to 20% cuts in front line services. What the
:51:08. > :51:13.police and crime Commission is going to have to do under the law
:51:13. > :51:18.is they are going to have to set their budgets. They will have to
:51:18. > :51:22.appoint the chief constable. Of course the police and crime
:51:22. > :51:27.commissioner is going to have to take a view on whether or not
:51:27. > :51:30.central government gives him or her enough resources in order to fight
:51:30. > :51:34.crime. Looking at the Budget that most of the local police forces are
:51:34. > :51:38.going to have, we are going to have to have a continuation of those
:51:38. > :51:43.cuts because we do not have enough money to for the will frontline
:51:43. > :51:46.services. This is very important. How can you ensure that party
:51:46. > :51:51.politics does not creeping to this post? According to the Home Office
:51:51. > :51:56.it is not a political party post or representing any one section of the
:51:56. > :51:59.electorate. Whoever gets the job have to swear an oath of
:51:59. > :52:03.impartiality. How can you ensure party politics will not creeping?
:52:03. > :52:08.They will certainly not be allowed to be partisan in exercising their
:52:08. > :52:11.powers. The electorate will pick up and knock about party politics.
:52:11. > :52:16.Because it is a different election people who think seriously about it
:52:16. > :52:21.will not necessarily vote their first party political loyalty. The
:52:21. > :52:26.more corny Labour candidates will just say let's Spencer more money
:52:26. > :52:32.on it, surely we can borrow it from somewhere. That will not maximise
:52:32. > :52:37.the Labour vote amongst intelligent voters.
:52:37. > :52:40.So who will you be voting for? As November 15th approaches, we'll be
:52:40. > :52:50.bringing you an identity parade of the candidates across the East
:52:50. > :52:50.
:52:50. > :52:51.Midlands. Starting with the line up There are four candidates in
:52:51. > :52:56.There are four candidates in Nottinghamshire. Paddy Tipping is
:52:56. > :52:59.standing for Labour. He is a former MP for Sherwood and has been a
:52:59. > :53:04.Nottingham county councillor. He is promising to oppose the government
:53:04. > :53:14.cuts to the police force. 150 more officers on the beat and 100 more
:53:14. > :53:17.
:53:17. > :53:20.police community support officers. . I lived in Nottinghamshire for 40
:53:20. > :53:23.years. My family lives the and I have done a lot of things in
:53:23. > :53:27.neighbourhood politics with the council and with Parliament and I
:53:27. > :53:37.am still doing a lot of things now and I'm the only candidate who is
:53:37. > :53:58.
:53:58. > :54:01.My nine years of leadership in the Sherwood District Council, I gave
:54:01. > :54:07.that up last month, they have proved him as invaluable in the
:54:07. > :54:17.running of a major organisation. In particular a major organisation
:54:17. > :54:42.
:54:42. > :54:49.I have the advantage to say to the people that your policies will be
:54:49. > :54:54.dealt with locally because the policeman is not allowed to be a
:54:54. > :54:57.member of any political party. Why should the commission or the M&M of
:54:57. > :55:02.a political party? I believe that if you become a member of the
:55:02. > :55:12.political party, if you win, particular person will be erected
:55:12. > :55:36.
:55:36. > :55:41.I believe that my depth of knowledge of the police service
:55:41. > :55:46.over many years will give me a good bearing as to what can be done to
:55:46. > :55:48.improve efficiency and effectiveness. They are the
:55:48. > :55:52.candidates in Nottinghamshire but what could they do have they got
:55:52. > :55:57.into power? According to the Office of National Statistics,
:55:57. > :56:01.Nottinghamshire is the most crime- ridden country at -- County in East
:56:01. > :56:05.Midlands. How can much-changed? level of crime has been falling
:56:05. > :56:12.steadily in Nottinghamshire in recent years. People have various
:56:12. > :56:15.states of being about crime in their locality. In Cotgrave people
:56:15. > :56:18.feel quite strongly about anti- social behaviour and juvenile
:56:18. > :56:22.delinquency. It really have a problem that. How will the
:56:22. > :56:25.Commission have any impact on that? The chief constable will be
:56:25. > :56:29.accountable to him for the way in which the chief constable decides
:56:29. > :56:33.he can tackle that. In the end he will have to decide the priority of
:56:33. > :56:37.what he can do about it but in the case of Cotgrave there was a very
:56:37. > :56:40.effective police initiative probably in response to political
:56:40. > :56:44.requests from me and the councillors and other people there.
:56:44. > :56:48.Across the whole county I think it is a good idea for people to be
:56:48. > :56:51.accountable and for sensible people to express their sense of
:56:52. > :56:55.priorities and what they think needs to be done in a community.
:56:55. > :56:59.there a danger that by listening to what the public sector priorities
:56:59. > :57:04.are, the commissioner would make a knee-jerk reactions to headline-
:57:04. > :57:08.grabbing crimes? I think that is why it is very important that we
:57:08. > :57:14.have a clear understanding between the chief constable and
:57:14. > :57:17.commissioner as to their duties and responsibilities. The select
:57:17. > :57:21.committee suggested a sign in effect a Magna Carta on the day
:57:21. > :57:27.after the commissioner is elected so that everyone is very clear on
:57:27. > :57:32.where their responsibilities and duties blarney. Where the
:57:32. > :57:36.responsibilities of the chief constable will be it. It is very
:57:36. > :57:39.important that we leave operational matters entirely to the police and
:57:39. > :57:43.the chief constable. What I hope the crime commissioner can do is to
:57:43. > :57:48.be the sounding-board for the public. Let us ask the public, we
:57:48. > :57:51.have some of them here. We asked the the bling Cotgrave in Ken
:57:51. > :57:55.Clarke's constituency, where they thought police resources should be
:57:55. > :57:58.because. I would like to see more on the streets. That is generally.
:57:58. > :58:03.I don't think there was enough on the streets. I would like to see
:58:03. > :58:09.more on the roads. They should tackle the bad drivers. I see are
:58:09. > :58:13.not a police but they spend a lot of time in their cars. I think they
:58:13. > :58:19.would find more criminals if they walked around. I would like to see
:58:19. > :58:23.more people on the street. I know we have cameras here but I think, I
:58:23. > :58:28.don't think the police are accessible to people in their own
:58:28. > :58:31.homes, if you like. Real concerns there from real people in Cotgrave.
:58:31. > :58:36.They are voters in their patch and they say they want to see more
:58:37. > :58:42.bobbies on the beach but there is not money for a. Every opinion poll
:58:42. > :58:47.that I have seen in the last 40 years has that same request of
:58:47. > :58:49.wanting to see more bobbies on the beat. That is an operational matter
:58:49. > :58:53.what proportion of their police force they can have strolling about
:58:53. > :58:58.at any particular time. If people say that to the commissioner, isn't
:58:58. > :59:02.that what we should see on the streets? A visible presence for
:59:02. > :59:05.police is extremely important. Of course they should be people to be
:59:05. > :59:09.seen patrolling every now and again but I am sure the chief constable
:59:09. > :59:14.will explain you cannot have all of your pleas walking round the
:59:14. > :59:18.streets and a serious criminals in cars. People want a rapid response
:59:18. > :59:21.was a myth serious happens. Ken was a very distinguished Home Secretary
:59:21. > :59:24.so he knows all about the issue of disability. People want visibility
:59:24. > :59:31.and these will be the issues that the crime commissioners are going
:59:31. > :59:35.to have to deal with. When this election takes place it will be
:59:35. > :59:39.fascinating to see how things develop over the last four years.
:59:40. > :59:43.It is not an excuse for people are not voting. People should go out
:59:43. > :59:47.and but because it is the opportunity do influence what is