:01:22. > :01:32.And in the East Midlands: They call it the bedroom tax. Will be looking
:01:32. > :01:32.
:01:32. > :37:10.Apology for the loss of subtitles for 2138 seconds
:37:10. > :37:16.at the benefits change that could Denude bedroom tax that is set to
:37:16. > :37:21.hit 40,000 people here. It is not a case but I cannot afford to pay. I
:37:21. > :37:25.just can't. I am what do you want here from the Chancellor's Autumn
:37:25. > :37:30.Statement? We don't need crazier ideas, we need leadership and
:37:30. > :37:33.consistency. Hello. I'm Marie Ashby. Joining me
:37:33. > :37:35.this week, the Labour MP for Mansfield, Sir Alan Meale, and
:37:35. > :37:38.Richard Blunt, the Conservative leader of North West Leicestershire
:37:38. > :37:41.District Council. To build or not to build: It's one
:37:41. > :37:44.of the biggest challenges facing us - do we need more homes? Where
:37:44. > :37:49.should they be? And crucially, will it mean building on green belt
:37:49. > :37:52.land? Nick Boles, the Planning Minister
:37:52. > :37:55.and the MP for Grantham and Stamford, caused a stir on
:37:55. > :38:02.Newsnight this week by saying we need to open up more land for
:38:02. > :38:06.development. If people want to be able to bring up their kids in a
:38:06. > :38:11.small house with a garden, they need to accept a we need to build
:38:11. > :38:16.more on some open land. So, should we be building up more new homes?
:38:16. > :38:20.struggled to understand for a long time where this is coming from. We
:38:21. > :38:26.have reduced targets over the last few years, we have still not seen
:38:26. > :38:29.houses being built. We are said to be the fastest-growing region in
:38:29. > :38:33.the East Midlands. If people want to live here, they are going to
:38:33. > :38:40.have to live in homes. But we are right in the middle of it. We have
:38:40. > :38:49.30 minutes from all major cities. So you're saying that no UK -- no
:38:49. > :38:55.new houses are necessary? Alan Meale, you have thousands of empty
:38:56. > :38:59.homes any you've. Why can't people live there? It is not thousands, it
:38:59. > :39:04.is a few hundred. We do need to replace those terms, but there is
:39:04. > :39:11.an awful lot of brown belt to cover that. I agree we should not be
:39:11. > :39:13.going into green belt at this time. There is no need for it. We should
:39:13. > :39:19.see how we could integrate transport corridors with brown belt
:39:19. > :39:22.land. How many people are on your waiting list their houses in North
:39:22. > :39:27.West Leicestershire? I couldn't tell you, but it's the same number
:39:27. > :39:32.which had for a number of years. It is not increasing. But if there are
:39:32. > :39:37.people on waiting lists, they are waiting. Yes, they are waiting for
:39:37. > :39:41.certain types. But this is just talking about general building. I
:39:41. > :39:46.don't see a building houses in a field somewhere is going to solve
:39:46. > :39:52.social housing needs in another place. So what you say to Nick
:39:52. > :39:56.Boles? I think he is wrong. And you might have hundreds of empty homes
:39:56. > :40:00.in Mansfield, but people presumably don't want to live in them. Well,
:40:00. > :40:07.they do, but they are damaged and we cannot move in for them -- into
:40:07. > :40:12.them. Some of the need to be replaced. We need a lot of
:40:12. > :40:16.bungalows because we have a lot of disabled people in our area. As
:40:16. > :40:21.people get ill, they need different kinds of accommodation. If we could
:40:21. > :40:25.get them, we could released social housing. So we need to build the
:40:25. > :40:32.houses that people want, is what you're saying. Yes, on brownfield
:40:32. > :40:40.sites. Do you agree with that? is the same in north-west. We have
:40:40. > :40:45.some housing subsidence we have to get those rebuilt. You study
:40:45. > :40:48.architecture. Is there a mismatch between making desirable homes and
:40:48. > :40:52.having them at an affordable price, or is it possible to have both?
:40:52. > :40:57.think you can have both. The houses being built now are meeting the
:40:57. > :41:03.market need. So people are delivering products people want to
:41:03. > :41:07.buy. Nearly all the people in the north-west looking our families
:41:07. > :41:10.looking to set up size. From homes to another potential
:41:10. > :41:13.housing crisis. They are calling it the Bedroom Tax - or Under
:41:13. > :41:16.Occupancy Penalties - and it's about to hit tens of thousands of
:41:16. > :41:20.people in the East Midlands. From April, the Government is bringing
:41:20. > :41:29.Housing benefit living in homes deemed too big for them could lose
:41:29. > :41:35.up to a quarter of their income. We went to meet one of them.
:41:35. > :41:39.It's a home that is full of life, but officially under occupied. Jill
:41:39. > :41:44.leads on her own in a two-bedroom flat in Derby. She regularly looks
:41:44. > :41:49.after her nine children. Today, it is Harry. Three of the
:41:49. > :41:54.grandchildren live with her for half the week. Jill is also a full-
:41:54. > :41:59.time carer for a father living nearby. She gets benefits of �90 a
:41:59. > :42:07.week, but under the new rules she will lose �11 a week because she is
:42:07. > :42:13.living in a flat with more bedrooms than she needs. This is my home, I
:42:13. > :42:18.get paid to look after my jab -- my dad. I'm saving the government
:42:18. > :42:24.hundreds of pounds a week. If I couldn't do it any had to be in a
:42:24. > :42:33.nursing home, so why take another �11 a week of me. People in my
:42:33. > :42:40.situation should be exempt. whole flat is on the ground floor.
:42:40. > :42:44.This is the kitchen, one -- Jill's bedroom, and this is the spare room
:42:44. > :42:49.that is causing all problems. And it is not just Jill. Hundreds of
:42:49. > :42:56.people will be affected. The Housing Association says about a
:42:56. > :43:00.thousand of its tenants are in sit -- are in similar situations.
:43:00. > :43:05.got this bedroom and then there is another bedroom. We know on average
:43:05. > :43:11.it will be about �12 a week per room. So possibly �50 a month that
:43:11. > :43:15.people will have to for ago. Some people will be able to do that and
:43:15. > :43:19.work additional hours if they are lucky enough to have employment. So
:43:19. > :43:23.not everybody will be going into debt, but a significant proportion
:43:24. > :43:29.will struggle. I'm not asking for more money, just don't take
:43:29. > :43:36.anything off me. I can't give anything owls up. I don't smoke, no
:43:36. > :43:40.phone line, no contents insurance, no cable, no jewellery. My savings
:43:40. > :43:46.have gone. You can't get blood out of stone. It is not a case that I
:43:46. > :43:50.don't want to pay, I can't pay! is thought 40,000 people across the
:43:50. > :43:54.East Midlands will be hit by the changes. They will have to find the
:43:55. > :44:01.extra money for the rent themselves, move to smaller accommodation, or
:44:01. > :44:04.even face the prospect of eviction. Chris Hobson, you are the East
:44:04. > :44:12.Midlands lead manager of the National Housing Federation. How
:44:13. > :44:16.typical is Jill's situation? Derry to put all, I'm afraid. People will
:44:16. > :44:20.have the spare room for all sorts of reasons. It might be because
:44:20. > :44:24.their children stay over the weekend and they are separated. It
:44:24. > :44:29.is possible that they need equipment for a disability in the
:44:29. > :44:35.household. Almost one-third of the total people claiming houses in the
:44:35. > :44:40.region will be affected. Richard, you will be the one having to
:44:40. > :44:44.implement this as leader of the council. How? Well, your timing is
:44:44. > :44:50.brilliant. This is the time we need to talk about this issue because we
:44:50. > :44:55.have some time it to work it out. We have about 550 people who we
:44:55. > :44:59.think in principle could be affected by this. So we're going to
:44:59. > :45:03.meet them and find out what the situations are, so by the time it
:45:03. > :45:07.comes in... So are you going to be inspecting their properties to find
:45:07. > :45:12.out what the sleeping arrangements are? No, no. We're going to be
:45:12. > :45:15.talking to them about their situation and what they can do.
:45:15. > :45:22.Then we will at least be able to get down to the numbers of people
:45:22. > :45:27.affected. Is this a good policy? Well, it is �21 billion of our
:45:27. > :45:32.money they get spent on housing benefits. We need to do something
:45:32. > :45:35.about it. This is part of a huge change you will see. The general
:45:35. > :45:43.idea is that people who are not working should not be better off
:45:43. > :45:47.than those who are working. Doing nothing is not an option. Remember
:45:48. > :45:52.what period of time we're in at the moment. This is a double dip
:45:52. > :46:02.recession. We're talking about the poorest people in our communities.
:46:02. > :46:03.
:46:03. > :46:08.And we're going round seeing if we can take out a bedroom. It is not
:46:08. > :46:12.people friendly. What about people who've had marriage break-ups, and
:46:12. > :46:15.one person has kept themselves in work but has lost their jobs. They
:46:15. > :46:20.want access to their children, their want their children to come
:46:20. > :46:26.and spend time with them. If they only have one bedroom, no children
:46:26. > :46:33.can spend time there. What happens when someone like Jill cannot pay?
:46:33. > :46:38.She has nothing left. At a lot of people are going to really struggle.
:46:38. > :46:42.People are only just getting by. To take �12 away from someone on a
:46:42. > :46:47.low-budget, that is a big hit. they enough one-bedroom homes for
:46:47. > :46:50.all these people to move into? the policy over the past three
:46:50. > :46:54.years had led us to get rid of those types of properties to
:46:54. > :46:59.develop more family type properties. So even if they do want to move, it
:46:59. > :47:04.is not given they will be able to. I think we're all agreed that
:47:04. > :47:09.housing benefit is high, but when you try to make big cuts, and we
:47:09. > :47:16.are looking to save �2 billion by 2014, sometimes the policy just
:47:16. > :47:20.doesn't match the reality. Are you not worried about this? I have
:47:20. > :47:24.spoken to city councillors and they are worried. They said this is a
:47:24. > :47:31.half-baked, costly measure. The worry is it can cause more problems
:47:31. > :47:35.in the future. All accounts of a 12% less money. Sir we just have to
:47:35. > :47:40.put up with it? Every single person I know feels worse off than they
:47:40. > :47:44.were last year. That is just a fact. Self-employed, employed by the
:47:44. > :47:48.state, whatever they are doing, they feel worse off. So we need to
:47:48. > :47:52.get better value out of this massive bill we are paying.
:47:52. > :47:57.sounds harsh. If you are not on benefits and your situation changes
:47:57. > :48:02.then the reality is you will downsize or think about it. So is
:48:02. > :48:07.this proposal fair? This is not about downsizing. The lady we just
:48:07. > :48:15.saw there, you saw the situation. She is a full-time carer. She is
:48:15. > :48:22.not in a giant house. Baobabs have one-bedroom more. -- they perhaps
:48:22. > :48:32.have one bedroom. What would you do? There are billions of pounds of
:48:32. > :48:36.unpaid tax. What other politicians are saying is let's go and get them.
:48:36. > :48:40.Why, instead of making tax collectors redundant, why don't we
:48:40. > :48:50.get them out there getting these people who were not paying their
:48:50. > :48:51.
:48:52. > :48:57.tax. What is your main fear about is being implemented? In the past
:48:57. > :49:01.few years, homelessness has risen by 24%. People are just getting by
:49:01. > :49:06.and this is going to push more people over the edge. Is going to
:49:06. > :49:10.have a big impact on communities. People there is might not affect
:49:10. > :49:17.them directly now, but as time goes by, you realise it is much closer
:49:17. > :49:22.to home. Some policy makers sometimes try to paint a picture of
:49:22. > :49:25.the scrounger on benefits. We are not talking about that. We talking
:49:25. > :49:31.about the lady in that situation there. I had a conversation this
:49:31. > :49:34.week with the woman he separated from her partner. She has the
:49:34. > :49:40.children at the weekend. She really can't afford to move out of their
:49:40. > :49:45.house. She is a community nurse. Well, could people rent out a spare
:49:45. > :49:48.room? Yes, that is part of it. It is just using the space we have
:49:48. > :49:56.available. We cannot create enough social housing to meet all the
:49:56. > :50:01.needs. There is a hardship fund which will make a difference.
:50:02. > :50:07.just go back to that case there. What happens in that particular
:50:07. > :50:13.situation - she's got nothing to sell, no money coming in from any
:50:13. > :50:18.other avenue. She is going to go into debt. Then he will issue a
:50:18. > :50:23.recovery notice which will cost �70 even if she turns up and pays all
:50:23. > :50:32.of their debt. But she can't pay, so they go for more. She comes back
:50:32. > :50:39.again. This time, it is �300. It goes on and on. Look, we're running
:50:39. > :50:47.out of money. Every single person in this money -- country knows we
:50:47. > :50:53.don't have enough money. But in Britain we have a welfare state. It
:50:53. > :50:56.should catch everybody who falls through the net.
:50:56. > :50:59.As we've already heard, the Chancellor will be delivering his
:50:59. > :51:02.annual Autumn Statement this week - it's likely to be a pretty Black
:51:02. > :51:05.Wednesday as George Osborne will have to admit to what has been a
:51:05. > :51:12.pretty terrible year for the economy. Rob Pittam's been to find
:51:12. > :51:17.out what one businessman in Derby wants to hear from the Chancellor.
:51:17. > :51:23.These guys are actually working on parts the next year's Formula One
:51:23. > :51:27.sports cars. We can't actually show you too much because it is secret.
:51:27. > :51:31.This technology company is just outside Derby. They make parts for
:51:31. > :51:36.the car industry, things like this carbon fibre air duct for his
:51:36. > :51:41.sports car. Customers include people like Jaguar. There is a
:51:41. > :51:48.heavy emphasis on skills and on training. They actually have 42
:51:48. > :51:54.vacancies at the moment for apprentices. Things are OK at the
:51:55. > :51:58.moment but it is hard work. We're trying to get post-recession ready
:51:58. > :52:03.and every day we are working very hard to make sure they is some
:52:04. > :52:10.consistency. What do you what the Chancellor to talk about next week?
:52:10. > :52:15.We don't need any crazy ideas, we need leadership and consistency.
:52:15. > :52:19.We're talking six years of consistency. We don't need a rush
:52:19. > :52:24.because there is an election coming. We need things to be very, very
:52:24. > :52:32.stable. And we need some encouragement. How would you do
:52:32. > :52:36.that though? Well, we need to start talking about success. We're coming
:52:36. > :52:41.off the back of a really good year for Great Britain. But there's been
:52:41. > :52:46.a terrible recession. Well, we've had the Olympics, there had been
:52:46. > :52:52.all kinds of things. It is not lazy Britain, it is great Britain.
:52:52. > :52:57.what practical measures can be implemented? I don't think he's
:52:57. > :53:01.done anything. He needs to unlock the banking system, that's for sure.
:53:01. > :53:08.We are under starter's orders. We have to be let off the leash and
:53:08. > :53:12.have the encouragement to do it. We need more funding their education,
:53:12. > :53:15.particularly. The next generation is so important. I'm not really
:53:15. > :53:20.interested in the terms and where the government is right now. Over
:53:20. > :53:27.the next 10 years we need to invest in education and people who want to
:53:27. > :53:32.try hard. What is it like competing and talking to suppliers at the
:53:32. > :53:37.moment? What is the atmosphere like? I think people are looking at
:53:37. > :53:41.each other saying, can we talk about success? We are actually
:53:41. > :53:44.doing OK. There are still pockets that are really struggling but
:53:45. > :53:49.people are now starting to be open and say, we are struggling, how can
:53:49. > :53:54.we get better? All, we're doing really well, how do we get even
:53:54. > :53:58.better? People have kept their heads down for two or three years,
:53:58. > :54:03.nobody dared talk about success just in case you got shot down for
:54:03. > :54:06.it. We need to move on from it. If you are successful, if you are
:54:06. > :54:16.employing people and generating income and paying taxes, you should
:54:16. > :54:19.be getting a pat on the back. Richard: Graham there has pointed
:54:19. > :54:26.out yet again that what businesses want is consistency, and there's no
:54:26. > :54:32.voice for business in your Government? What a superb man to
:54:32. > :54:37.say that we want a level playing field. The only way we can get out
:54:37. > :54:44.of the mess we in his for our businesses to do well. So the Prime
:54:44. > :54:50.Minister will say exactly the same thing. Allen, we know that Graham
:54:50. > :54:55.later the Chancellor as mediocre. How do you think he is doing.
:54:55. > :55:01.know he is mediocre. Everybody says it in the media, on television and
:55:01. > :55:06.radio. Business leaders are saying it. As Chancellor, he is not able
:55:06. > :55:12.to grasp the nettle and actually start to her build programmes that
:55:12. > :55:17.will help us get out of this. Nottingham, they had a few ideas on
:55:17. > :55:24.what they wanted from the Chancellor for Christmas. We once a
:55:24. > :55:30.more jobs for the young ones. -- we want some more jobs. If he puts the
:55:30. > :55:40.threshold up, I'd be happier with that. If you ever family, sometimes
:55:40. > :55:44.you are better off not working. So I think they need to consider that.
:55:44. > :55:51.-- if you have a family. They need to think about the normal people,
:55:51. > :55:57.not just rich people. Things like fuelled need to be at a decent
:55:57. > :56:04.price. At the moment, everybody is on their needs. Thank you very much,
:56:04. > :56:07.Chancellor, for the fixed rate VAT. Merry Christmas.
:56:08. > :56:11.Merry Christmas to the Chancellor! Bet he wouldn't have expected that!
:56:11. > :56:14.But Alan, it's clear from what those people said that people are
:56:14. > :56:23.still struggling, but to improve the economy he's got to keep going
:56:23. > :56:28.with a policy of cuts. I think he needs to invest in jobs and he
:56:28. > :56:31.needs to peak -- keep those people who have businesses with jobs. One
:56:31. > :56:38.thing he might do is not increase the fuel duty on 3 p, which would
:56:38. > :56:41.be very sensible. I hope he does it. In the north, for me, if he needs
:56:41. > :56:48.to put some construction infrastructure in there to try to
:56:49. > :56:53.get as a new road link. That would bring jobs in construction. And we
:56:54. > :56:58.need something in the East Midlands generally. There is a 364 million
:56:58. > :57:06.pot up there. So far, we've only had �2 million of that in this
:57:06. > :57:09.region. It is still a gloomy message, isn't it, on the streets?
:57:09. > :57:14.All politicians agree we cannot keep spending our way out of
:57:14. > :57:19.trouble. Even the Labour leader would and say that now. We can't
:57:19. > :57:26.just keep writing cheques. One thing we can do is keep taxes low,
:57:26. > :57:29.and we're doing that. They also the same thing - consistency.
:57:29. > :57:32.Time now for a look at some of the other political stories in the East
:57:32. > :57:42.Midlands this week - here's our political editor John Hess with our
:57:42. > :57:43.
:57:43. > :57:45.60 second round-up: It seems David Cameron doesn't know he's east from
:57:45. > :57:50.his West when it comes to the Midlands.
:57:50. > :57:53.He was challenged on unacceptable levels of lead -- youth
:57:53. > :58:00.unemployment in his Leicester South constituency, and he got a
:58:00. > :58:06.surprising response. If you take the figures for Birmingham, 2% were
:58:06. > :58:14.in the private sector, the rest was in the public sector. Later, A was
:58:14. > :58:18.delivered to Downing Street to let him know exactly where Leicester is.
:58:18. > :58:23.Work has finally started on the alliance boots site in Nottingham.
:58:23. > :58:29.It is aiming to create a centre for innovation and encourage new
:58:29. > :58:33.business through incentives. It is really significant. And Derby
:58:33. > :58:42.residents are the latest facing charges to have their bins emptied.
:58:42. > :58:50.It is all part of the Labour-run council to balance its books.
:58:50. > :58:55.Bins always get people going, don't they? I always say Eric Pickles
:58:55. > :59:01.must dream about them because it is all he talks about! Recycling is
:59:01. > :59:06.very important. Is it a problem in your area? And no, in fact, every
:59:06. > :59:13.time I see Eric Pickles, I tell him to leave rubbish bins alone. What
:59:13. > :59:16.about in Mansfield? It was, because they were going to charge for it.
:59:16. > :59:21.They have now reversed back, which I think they should. So you are
:59:21. > :59:26.happy with the way it is now? happy. Richard, it seems a shame
:59:26. > :59:31.that the Prime Minister didn't seem to know where Leicester was. He was
:59:31. > :59:37.here last week. He thought it wasn't the West Midlands, it has
:59:37. > :59:44.never been there! Is as a simple error. It is 20 miles apart. It is
:59:44. > :59:50.a big city! Does he know where Mansfield is? So to me, he should
:59:50. > :59:54.know where Leicester was. obviously need to remind him!