:01:24. > :01:34.In the East Midlands: It could be a bleak winter for thousands, but are
:01:34. > :01:34.
:01:34. > :37:24.Apology for the loss of subtitles for 2149 seconds
:37:24. > :37:31.In the East Midlands: It could be a bleak winter for thousands, but are
:37:31. > :37:35.they strivers or skivers? I have seen the numbers go up and I have
:37:35. > :37:37.been coming for a couple of months, then it line kicks longer each week.
:37:37. > :37:44.And as one of our region's hospital's heads towards a cash
:37:44. > :37:49.crisis will the government step in to bail it out? They paid all that
:37:49. > :37:52.money out, all of that, I think something has got to be done.
:37:52. > :37:55.I'm Marie Ashby. Joining me this week, someone in the perfect
:37:55. > :37:58.position to answer that question, the Chairman of the Health Select
:37:58. > :38:01.committee and Conservative MP for Charnwood, Stephen Dorrell, and
:38:01. > :38:09.Labour's Liz Kendall, the MP for Leicester West. And we're starting
:38:09. > :38:11.with health, Liz Kendall's been busy in that area herself. She's
:38:11. > :38:14.part of an all-party group of Leicestershire MPs who've been
:38:14. > :38:16.meeting the man reviewing the decision to stop children's heart
:38:16. > :38:18.surgery at Glenfield Hospital and transfer its ECMO specialist life
:38:18. > :38:21.support unit to Birmingham. Children's heart surgery at
:38:21. > :38:22.Glenfield was scheduled to stop after a government review
:38:22. > :38:26.recommended concentrating specialist services in a smaller
:38:26. > :38:30.number of larger centres. Surgical cases would be transferred to
:38:30. > :38:37.Birmingham. But after strong objections, including from local
:38:37. > :38:45.MPs, the decision is being reviewed by an independent panel. You met
:38:45. > :38:51.the chairman Lord Ribeiro on Thursday, any hope there? He was
:38:51. > :38:56.very clear to the cross-party group of MPs and peers that met with him
:38:56. > :39:00.that he is coming to this with an open mind up. He has no
:39:00. > :39:04.preconceptions, he wants to look at the evidence about what is going to
:39:04. > :39:08.deliver the best care for children and the best support for families.
:39:08. > :39:13.What makes you think the outcome will be different this time?
:39:13. > :39:17.Because he is going to look at the proper evidence including on
:39:17. > :39:21.Glenfield's ECMO service, although he was told by the Secretary of
:39:21. > :39:24.State that was outside his review, he said the evidence was that the
:39:25. > :39:28.services were closely linked so he will be looking at it. He was
:39:28. > :39:31.concerned about whether or not people from the black and ethnic
:39:32. > :39:36.minority communities had been properly consulted with and he will
:39:36. > :39:40.look at increased pressure for services from our bigger population,
:39:40. > :39:44.particularly among younger people in the area. So he wants to look at
:39:44. > :39:48.the evidence, take a national decision about what is right for
:39:48. > :39:54.the country and the most important thing is he is listening and that
:39:54. > :39:59.is welcome. This has had cross- party support for Glenfield, are
:39:59. > :40:04.you still behind the campaign? Absolutely, I think it is important
:40:04. > :40:08.that this decision is reviewed, that is why I welcome the fact it
:40:08. > :40:12.is being referred to the panel. Lord Rob Burrow is a distinguished
:40:12. > :40:16.man, a former President of the Royal College of Surgeons, and
:40:16. > :40:21.between Liz and myself there is agreement that there needs to be a
:40:21. > :40:25.decision about this. Children's Heart surgery has been something
:40:25. > :40:30.the health service has taken 10 years to respond to a national
:40:30. > :40:35.scandal in Bristol. It really is time that there was a decision made
:40:35. > :40:39.on a national basis about how this service will be delivered in future.
:40:39. > :40:44.Do you think heart surgery for children should stay at Glenfield?
:40:44. > :40:49.I don't think that is a political decision, it is a decision as
:40:49. > :40:54.listed just now that needs to be taken on the evidence about how
:40:54. > :40:58.that service can be delivered best in a safe and sustainable fashion.
:40:58. > :41:02.One of the things that he said is that he is going to put the report
:41:02. > :41:06.in now at the end of March, it was initially going to be the end of
:41:06. > :41:10.February. The Leeds hospital has also referred at their decision, so
:41:11. > :41:14.that is when it is going to come, I think it is right, we need a
:41:14. > :41:20.decision, because the staff, families and children are worried
:41:20. > :41:23.about the future. They need to take an independent decision. We were
:41:23. > :41:33.putting the case for Glenfield and I'm confident they will listen to
:41:33. > :41:36.that but there is a long way to go. It may be Christmas, but there's a
:41:36. > :41:39.distinct lack of cheer for many. Thousands of people across the East
:41:39. > :41:42.Midlands will be getting their Christmas meals from the region's
:41:42. > :41:44.food banks. Benefits look set to be one of the great battlegrounds for
:41:45. > :41:48.next year, with the Chancellor talking of helping "strivers not
:41:48. > :41:51.skivers". But how do the people who rely on food banks to feed
:41:51. > :41:52.themselves and their families feel? John Hess has been to one as they
:41:53. > :41:56.prepared their very own seasonal party.
:41:56. > :42:01.Christmas is around the corner and there is a whole roast on the go,
:42:01. > :42:05.just the thing on a cold winter's day. We are in Loughborough, this
:42:05. > :42:09.is a Christian a run a charity that provides a free food for some of
:42:09. > :42:14.the vulnerable in the area, the unemployed, those living on the
:42:14. > :42:20.breadline and who may need a bit of extra help. Parisse uses the
:42:20. > :42:26.facility, what exactly is provided here? That provide us with food,
:42:26. > :42:30.fresh vegetables, stuff that can be used, but markets throw away.
:42:30. > :42:37.You're a former musician, a full- time carer, is it a fundamental
:42:37. > :42:43.that you get this service? Are yes, it is, because without it, the old
:42:43. > :42:48.cliche, it would be... A we will catch up with you later, let's
:42:48. > :42:52.catch up with Judy, one of the people who runs this organisation.
:42:52. > :42:57.Since austerity kicked in, were different have you noticed?
:42:57. > :43:00.type of people coming have changed slightly. People who one wouldn't
:43:00. > :43:04.have expected it, people who have perhaps lost their jobs, because
:43:04. > :43:08.they haven't had their jobs for very long, they find they cannot
:43:08. > :43:14.claim benefit, or people trying to claim benefits, which have been
:43:14. > :43:20.held up for various reasons, which happens. I come one-iron a bit
:43:20. > :43:24.short, and it really helps -- when I am a bit short. I have seen the
:43:24. > :43:27.numbers coming up and I have only been coming for a couple of months,
:43:27. > :43:31.it gets longer every week. How do you feel when you hear the
:43:31. > :43:36.Chancellor talking about the shirkers and the strivers, and
:43:36. > :43:40.those who were on benefits, staying in bed with the curtains closed?
:43:40. > :43:43.That is probably because they cannot afford to keep their house
:43:43. > :43:47.and the bed is the warmest place! I don't think most people in
:43:47. > :43:53.government has any height -- how hard it is at the bottom of the
:43:53. > :43:56.pile. They don't see how it is, my message to them would be, a jump in
:43:56. > :44:01.your car, come down to a place like this and witnessed first-hand
:44:01. > :44:10.exactly what is going on. Because all these people are in dire need
:44:10. > :44:15.of help. We are now inside the fault -- a food stall. Is it always
:44:15. > :44:21.this busy? Yes it is, this is our normal Tuesday and Thursday. What
:44:21. > :44:27.are you able to give the people? give them bridge, we give them pins
:44:27. > :44:35.up stock we give them cake -- we give them a front, we give them at
:44:35. > :44:40.teens. But once it is gone, it is gone. How much would that cost of
:44:40. > :44:46.the supermarket? I would say roughly �15. And that is a lot of
:44:46. > :44:50.money to find? Yes, I would be back on Tuesday, first in line. Free
:44:50. > :44:54.food is distributed twice a week from here. They will also be open
:44:54. > :45:03.on Christmas Eve and New year's Eve. You know it there will be -- they
:45:03. > :45:10.will be open because of the lengthening queue. Will you go and
:45:10. > :45:15.have a look? I think interest, most MPs, most weekends, see somebody,
:45:15. > :45:20.most of us more than one. Several good come into our surgeries at
:45:20. > :45:26.weekends from different versions of the story. A but you must be seen
:45:26. > :45:33.more of them? The answer is, there is clearly more stress, more
:45:33. > :45:37.hardship in our society as a result of economic times, that is true.
:45:37. > :45:41.What is important is to be clear at first of all that we should provide
:45:42. > :45:46.help for people who find themselves in hard times the Messiah might be
:45:46. > :45:49.volunteers providing that help, and we should ensure that there is a
:45:49. > :45:52.proper safety net. But we do them no favours if we do not insist that
:45:52. > :45:56.the real way to help them in the long term, them and their children,
:45:56. > :46:01.is to ensure the economy works better so that fewer people are in
:46:01. > :46:04.that position and more people are able to sustain themselves.
:46:04. > :46:08.people there are saying it is not just the government who will act of
:46:08. > :46:12.touch, it is all politicians across the board, they feel let down.
:46:12. > :46:18.think that is true, I think people look at all politicians and feel
:46:18. > :46:24.that they don't understand what is really going on in their lives. The
:46:24. > :46:27.struggle they face, the choice between heating and eating. I had a
:46:27. > :46:33.community meeting this week where people are really suffering a, they
:46:33. > :46:37.are worried about what is going to happen, people want to do their
:46:37. > :46:42.best for their family at Christmas, we are seeing our local credit
:46:42. > :46:48.union same people are more in debt. People are choosing between heating
:46:48. > :46:52.and eating, it is up to us, and I feel strongly as a Labour MP that I
:46:52. > :46:56.should say the government has made a huge mistake on the economy, we
:46:56. > :47:00.have long term unemployed doubled in the East Midlands... I and they
:47:00. > :47:09.said the queues are getting longer. Let's have a look at how many
:47:09. > :47:13.people are in the region. Housing benefit's a good indicator. There
:47:13. > :47:15.are 327,000 people on it in the East Midlands, that's up 7.5%. In
:47:15. > :47:18.Charnwood, Stephen, it's just under 8,000. And in Leicester, it's just
:47:18. > :47:24.over 34,000. That's a shocking figure - more than 300,000 people
:47:24. > :47:31.in our region on housing benefit. You can't label them all skivers.
:47:31. > :47:35.didn't label them at skivers. your government did. But equally,
:47:35. > :47:40.those people struggling in the way that is described, and I do not
:47:40. > :47:44.dissent from the description, and they know there are people in their
:47:44. > :47:48.community that they live next door to who they themselves described as
:47:48. > :47:53.skivers, so we shouldn't imagine that this problem does not exist
:47:53. > :47:58.for stoppages a small problem that does exist. What we ought to do is
:47:58. > :48:01.make certain that all of those who are engaged and looking after
:48:01. > :48:05.themselves, want to find jobs, sustain themselves, look after
:48:05. > :48:10.their families, we have an economic environment where they can find a
:48:10. > :48:13.job and look forward to improving living standards. Mind you, that
:48:13. > :48:18.food bank in Loughborough has been running for three years, so it is
:48:18. > :48:23.not just something that started now, it has been going on since Labour
:48:24. > :48:31.was in government. We have seen around one new food back open every
:48:31. > :48:36.single week across the country. -- food bank. 70% more food they are
:48:36. > :48:40.giving out now than three years ago. The truth, I'm afraid, is what the
:48:40. > :48:45.government announced in the Autumn Statement, their cuts to benefits
:48:45. > :48:50.and tax credits, six out of 10 of those people affected are in work.
:48:50. > :48:54.They are struggling and striving to do the best for their families! And
:48:54. > :48:58.they feel it is incredibly unfair that they are paying the price when
:48:58. > :49:02.millionaires are getting a big tax cut. They don't think that is fair
:49:02. > :49:06.and I don't think that is fair. Then people turn around and say you
:49:06. > :49:12.are out of touch. Politicians will always be accused of being out of
:49:12. > :49:16.touch but when it -- what any politician should do is when they
:49:16. > :49:20.have rich in their constituency, they meet people in their own
:49:20. > :49:28.constituency, they engage with problems... But it out of 10 of
:49:28. > :49:32.those people are actually working. But in Parliament we say we want a
:49:32. > :49:37.fair system, one people who can work are helped and supported to go
:49:37. > :49:41.into work and people who can't get a decent safety net, so they can
:49:41. > :49:46.live a decent life, in the 21st century, in one of the richest
:49:46. > :49:52.countries in the world, to have those food banks is a scar on
:49:52. > :49:59.society. You point the thing that the government, I don't think
:49:59. > :50:06.people in that you would help all thank either of us are appointing
:50:06. > :50:10.figures -- for pointing fingers at each other. There is a recession
:50:10. > :50:15.going on since 2008, times are tougher, what we don't have to do
:50:15. > :50:20.is to look after the people who opt in hard times. But Germany's
:50:20. > :50:25.growing by three or 4%, America is growing, this country is flat lined.
:50:25. > :50:29.We have got such problems that long-term unemployment, the
:50:29. > :50:36.government's work programme, we discover... But we cannot keep
:50:36. > :50:40.paying out benefits. The way you do that is we had a job guarantee for
:50:40. > :50:45.young people, we said you had no option but to turn down, the
:50:45. > :50:50.government scrapped that programme, its new programme, only two out of
:50:50. > :50:54.every 100 people have found work. That is not right, what we have
:50:54. > :50:59.found is happening in the new work programme is that those who are
:50:59. > :51:05.running them are being paid a only when the people on Dos programs
:51:05. > :51:08.have long-term, sustainable work. The evaluation of the work
:51:08. > :51:11.programme found most people would have found work without the work
:51:12. > :51:21.programme. I think we will be hearing more about this in the new
:51:21. > :51:24.year. Back to health now and the growing
:51:24. > :51:26.financial crisis at King's Mill Hospital in Sutton in Ashfield. The
:51:26. > :51:29.hospital took on a Private Finance inititative to refurbish the
:51:29. > :51:33.building which looks like it could end up costing �2 billion. Now 16%
:51:33. > :51:35.of its budget goes on repaying the PFI, compared with 5% at the Derby
:51:35. > :51:38.Royal Hospital. A new Chief Executive has been appointed to
:51:38. > :51:42.Sherwood Forest NHS trust which runs Kings Mill. He's warned job
:51:42. > :51:45.losses at the hospital can't be ruled out. I think there may be
:51:46. > :51:48.reductions in the workforce, but we need to come at it the right way,
:51:48. > :51:52.we will increasingly have patients treated at home, so they will still
:51:53. > :51:56.be treated but maybe not in the way they have seen it in the past. We
:51:56. > :52:00.may not have as many hospital beds or as many nurses in hospital but
:52:00. > :52:04.we will still have those staff caring for people in their
:52:04. > :52:14.community. The finances are pretty grim at King's Mill, will your
:52:14. > :52:14.
:52:14. > :52:20.It is not in the interests of patients to simply go on bailing
:52:20. > :52:27.out a hospital where 16% of the revenue is being reserve to pay for
:52:27. > :52:31.and pay out on to PPF eye. there is a President. You already
:52:31. > :52:36.helping Peterborough and Stamford NHS Trust, who are �45 million in
:52:36. > :52:39.debt. We are seeing the requirement to change. We had a debate this
:52:39. > :52:42.week in the House of Commons, the requirement to change the way care
:52:42. > :52:46.is delivered to reflect the fact that today's health service has
:52:46. > :52:54.many more elderly people, many people whose needs are best met not
:52:54. > :53:00.in the modern Acute Hospital, but by ensuring there are property it -
:53:00. > :53:07.- community-based services. We need to take resources, away from the
:53:07. > :53:09.acute sector to make sure there are proper dignity -- community
:53:09. > :53:14.services, so people cannot be discharged because the services are
:53:14. > :53:19.not there. But what of the hospital runs out of money? The is why I
:53:20. > :53:24.stress it is in no one's interest to us to bail out existing
:53:24. > :53:28.structures. If the system as it is currently delivering spends too
:53:28. > :53:32.much on acute and not enough on delivering care near to people's
:53:32. > :53:37.homes, then we are not meeting the needs of patients, and that should
:53:37. > :53:46.be what drives the service. Labour massively expanded this PFI project,
:53:46. > :53:51.this whole idea of it, does Labour regret having done it? No, I think
:53:51. > :53:54.overall I think PFI absolutely helped transform a crumbling
:53:55. > :53:59.Victorian hospitals. I am also clear that some of those project
:53:59. > :54:03.were not good value for money. I agreed with Stephen, we need to get
:54:03. > :54:07.a shift of services out of hospitals into the community to
:54:07. > :54:10.help people stay fit and healthy for as long as possible. But one of
:54:10. > :54:14.the problems in this area, particularly in and around the
:54:14. > :54:18.Ashfield constituency, is we have seen vital services like walk-in
:54:18. > :54:26.centres been shut, so people here the rhetoric on the grounds, they
:54:26. > :54:30.think... There are two people who use Kingsmill. We've been to
:54:30. > :54:34.Mansfield to find out what they think of their hospital. I have had
:54:34. > :54:40.good dealings with Kingsmill, every time I have been in, I have been
:54:40. > :54:45.looked after very fairly and the place is lovely and clean. I do use
:54:45. > :54:47.the hospital quite a bit, these recent years, so I have seen the
:54:48. > :54:51.development and improvement and they are fantastic, it is a really
:54:52. > :54:57.nice place to go now. But I am worried about the financial
:54:57. > :55:02.situation they are in. They haven't got it, and no, they have paid all
:55:02. > :55:09.that money out, all of that, I think something has got to be done.
:55:09. > :55:13.It looks a lot better than I did. Got no complaints about it, really.
:55:13. > :55:18.Interesting that a lot of them like what the PFI has done for the
:55:18. > :55:22.hospital. We've already heard the chairman of the trust saying there
:55:22. > :55:30.could be job losses. How does it work, do wards close, do jobs have
:55:30. > :55:33.to go? I'm sure what Eric Morton is spending all his thinking Tyne on
:55:33. > :55:37.his making sure the hospital doesn't run out of money and that
:55:37. > :55:41.what happens is the services change in a way that reflect the needs of
:55:41. > :55:45.patients. You don't have to wait until the hospital has run out of
:55:45. > :55:50.money before you change the way in which care is delivered to reflect
:55:50. > :55:54.the needs of patients. Under all governments, the NHS has to live
:55:54. > :56:00.within our budget, it is a Budget that is at record levels, and it
:56:00. > :56:03.needs to meet changing needs of patients, if the needs of patients
:56:03. > :56:08.change then the shape of the service that is delivered needs to
:56:08. > :56:13.change as well. You've been bitten by the PFI process in Leicester -
:56:13. > :56:19.�20 million lost when a project for a major health hub fell apart.
:56:20. > :56:24.Maybe PFIs and hospitals aren't good for your health! One of the
:56:24. > :56:29.interesting things is that the PFI deals are quite long deals, 25-30
:56:29. > :56:32.year deals, and health care is much more fast moving than that. So I
:56:32. > :56:37.think there is an issue if you have a process which locks the service
:56:37. > :56:42.into a model which may not be the right one for 20 or 30 years' time,
:56:42. > :56:47.we have to look at that for the future. The other thing is that
:56:47. > :56:51.whilst individual services need to lick -- live within their means,
:56:51. > :56:56.one of the benefits of a National Health Service is that people are
:56:56. > :57:00.not left on their own, it is not that hospital, it is the whole area.
:57:00. > :57:05.So I think it would be wrong to go down a route where it is just about
:57:05. > :57:10.the individual service, we are a national health service, we need to
:57:10. > :57:13.work together to support each other. PFIs aren't always bad, Derby's
:57:13. > :57:19.Royal Hospital is held up as a shining example, why has that one
:57:19. > :57:23.worked when others have failed so spectacularly? Some of Stephen's
:57:23. > :57:27.colleagues say that everything is all down to this terrible PFI, the
:57:27. > :57:30.majority of hospitals with PFI deals are able to pay them back
:57:30. > :57:35.properly. Those have been problems often have an underlying issues
:57:35. > :57:38.that need to be addressed. don't hear me criticise the PFI is
:57:38. > :57:42.I was first a Treasury minister then a health minister that
:57:42. > :57:46.introduced it, and I'm delighted to say that the Chancellor has now
:57:46. > :57:51.said that he is going to look at the failings, because 15 years into
:57:51. > :57:57.a programme, it is not surprising it has made mistakes. What we need
:57:57. > :58:01.do is it refashion it in order that there is it a capital available to
:58:01. > :58:04.allow the system to restructure. Time now for a round-up of some of
:58:04. > :58:14.the other political stories in the East Midlands this week - with our
:58:14. > :58:15.
:58:15. > :58:19.Political Editor John Hess in 60 UK Coal has restructured his
:58:19. > :58:25.business. It has divided the company into a mining operation and
:58:25. > :58:29.a property sector. There is also a new name, coalfield resources. The
:58:29. > :58:34.firm says it mining business would have gone bust without the move up.
:58:34. > :58:38.The government may have signalled a shale gas bonanza in the East
:58:38. > :58:44.Midlands. There are thought to be large
:58:44. > :58:51.reserves in our region, so far and no one has applied to carry out the
:58:51. > :58:57.controversial for racking. Ashfield council is handing out a
:58:57. > :59:01.�250 Christmas bonus to staff earning less than �21,000. The
:59:01. > :59:05.measure has been condemned by the leader of the opposition Liberal
:59:05. > :59:09.Democrat group. Wondering why you Christmas card
:59:09. > :59:17.from Leicester County Council has gone, the council has decided to
:59:17. > :59:21.scrap its tradition of sending out cards. You can tell it is
:59:21. > :59:22.Christmas! There we have it in a nutshell - Labour Ashfield district
:59:22. > :59:31.council giving out bonuses, Conservative Leicestershire
:59:31. > :59:34.cancelling Christmas - you lot are just poles apart. I don't think we
:59:34. > :59:38.are cancelling Christmas by cancelling Christmas cards! There
:59:38. > :59:43.will be more than one view about the merits of them. I haven't even
:59:43. > :59:47.started writing mind. Are you sending any? To a few people. I
:59:47. > :59:53.have done all my shopping online this year, it was all sorted last
:59:53. > :59:58.week, it has transformed my life. If Christmas cards could be a
:59:58. > :00:05.personal expression and again, that would be wonderful. Where you get a