:01:24. > :01:34.In the East Midlands, high-speed to, we will be hearing from the MP who
:01:34. > :01:34.
:01:34. > :42:30.Apology for the loss of subtitles for 2455 seconds
:42:30. > :42:39.faces and the prospect of the line In the East Midlands. Take your
:42:39. > :42:43.seat for the HS2 debate - are you for it, or against it? The only
:42:43. > :42:48.people but on going to use the HS2 of business people. The ordinary
:42:48. > :42:51.man will not be using it. If it brings jobs and income and
:42:51. > :42:55.increases the value of properties hit is well worth it. And benefits
:42:55. > :42:57.changes - a disaster waiting to happen, or could they work? We hear
:42:57. > :43:04.from Melton Mowbray, where local people have been piloting the
:43:04. > :43:08.changes. Everything now is looking more positive. Hello, I'm Marie
:43:08. > :43:10.Ashby. Joining me this week the Conservative MP for North West
:43:10. > :43:13.Leicestershire, Andrew Bridgen, and the Labour Nottingham South MP,
:43:13. > :43:16.Lilian Greenwood. First, bigging up the East Midlands
:43:16. > :43:19.at what we do best. Mark Spencer, the Conservative Sherwood MP, has
:43:19. > :43:22.called a debate next week to highlight the strengths of our
:43:22. > :43:32.region's manufacturing economy. He wants to make sure we're the first
:43:32. > :43:36.people anyone thinks of when it comes to investment. He is not just
:43:36. > :43:41.talking about that big boys like Bombarider and Rolls Royce, he is
:43:42. > :43:45.saying we have to shed for the region. And he is right, isn't he?
:43:45. > :43:50.Yes, we are good be talking about the great success in the East
:43:50. > :43:59.Midlands of manufacturing. We have no people employed in manufacturing
:43:59. > :44:05.than any region in the UK. It is our bigger percentage of GDP. We
:44:05. > :44:10.are growing markets and it is a great story. I have some fantastic
:44:10. > :44:16.small and medium-sized companies in manufacturing in my constituency.
:44:16. > :44:21.Norton are looking to double their production. They have a �25 million
:44:21. > :44:28.order book and 90 % of the product goes abroad. The see it as good
:44:28. > :44:32.news. Lilian, Will you be supporting Mark Spencer? Certainly
:44:32. > :44:36.it is good to highlight the good work going on in the East Midlands.
:44:36. > :44:41.But we are not getting support from government funding that we used to,
:44:41. > :44:47.since we lost our regional development agency. We have done
:44:47. > :44:51.quite poorly on that. I'm not going to take lessons from Lillian about
:44:51. > :44:56.manufacturing. But she's right to say we have had to drop in money
:44:56. > :45:02.here. Norton, to facilitate their doubling of production, have had a
:45:02. > :45:07.government guarantee on the low to provide those facilities. Cutting
:45:07. > :45:11.corporation tax, increasing capital allowances tenfold in the Budget,
:45:12. > :45:16.that will make the huge difference to manufacturing. If we do not act
:45:16. > :45:22.now, we could lose these manufacturing skills that have been
:45:22. > :45:27.going on for decades. I was not seeking to make a party political
:45:27. > :45:29.point, I was trying to say that as a result of the loss of the
:45:29. > :45:34.regional development agency be are not getting the growth in money
:45:34. > :45:38.into the region compared to other regions. I think we should be
:45:38. > :45:43.working together to try to make sure that East Midlands gets its
:45:43. > :45:50.fair share. He took a lot about Norton but they do not employ a lot
:45:50. > :45:54.of people. But 83 % of the components that go to make an 0 a
:45:54. > :46:00.motorcycle on made in the UK. There are always a lot of jobs behind the
:46:00. > :46:04.frontline jobs. Lilian, are you going to the debate? Certainly, if
:46:04. > :46:07.I'm not already committed to other things I will certainly be going
:46:08. > :46:13.along to listen and make a contribution. One of the things we
:46:13. > :46:17.most need is to get growth and jobs into the wider economy. One of the
:46:17. > :46:22.things holding manufacturing back is a lack of demand in the UK which
:46:22. > :46:26.is why the government should be doing more to stimulate growth.
:46:26. > :46:30.may be 20 years away, but there's no keeping High Speed 2 out of the
:46:30. > :46:33.news. It's of particular interest to our two guests today. Lilian is
:46:33. > :46:36.shadow rail minister and Andrew, well, he's worried the line's going
:46:36. > :46:39.to go right through his garden! We'll get their views in a minute,
:46:39. > :46:41.but first, the Transport Secretary and Derbyshire Dales MP, Patrick
:46:41. > :46:45.McLoughlin, has been speaking to our olitical editor, John Hess,
:46:45. > :46:52.about how he made the decision about where the trains should run -
:46:52. > :46:57.and where the stations should be too. I realise that part of the
:46:57. > :47:01.route will be very unpopular. You cannot build a major infrastructure
:47:01. > :47:06.in this country without causing some problems, without some people
:47:06. > :47:10.being against the plan. What we have to look Toop as the government
:47:10. > :47:15.is what is in the long-term interest of the United Kingdom.
:47:15. > :47:20.This is the first railway line to be built north of Birmingham in 120
:47:20. > :47:25.years. Nick Rushton says that for Leicestershire they get all the
:47:25. > :47:30.pain and none of the game. If you look at when East Midlands Airport
:47:30. > :47:34.is, for instance, it was built by Derbyshire, Leicestershire and
:47:34. > :47:40.Nottinghamshire and Leicestershire certainly from utter got some of
:47:40. > :47:48.the game. I believe that the station that we are talking about
:47:48. > :47:53.at Toton will be great. One of the most important things about High
:47:53. > :47:57.Speed Two, it is not mainly about speed, it is about providing
:47:57. > :48:02.capacity on the rail network. We are desperately short of capacity
:48:02. > :48:07.and Leicestershire will get extra capacity. How will Leicestershire
:48:07. > :48:11.get extra capacity? Because it will free up track space on the lines of
:48:11. > :48:16.the Midland Main Line which we are going to be electrifying and that
:48:16. > :48:21.is how you build capacity into the whole network. Andrew, you heard
:48:21. > :48:28.what he had to say, it is for the cut off the whole country. It is
:48:28. > :48:32.not for the good of North West Leicester. Even if the much
:48:32. > :48:36.disputed economic benefits of HS2 to the whole country to come at
:48:37. > :48:41.some point in the future, the fact is that the polite, the fear and
:48:41. > :48:46.the planning paralysis actually happen the moment the plans were
:48:46. > :48:50.announced. Already, the housing market is collapsing in this way
:48:50. > :48:55.across the line of HS2, which went straight through the middle of my
:48:55. > :49:02.constituency. Through your garden? Doesn't it to go into my land, but
:49:02. > :49:08.next door. A lot of people say if you do not make a big fuss about he
:49:08. > :49:13.could lose a lot of fate. There's nothing in it for my constituents.
:49:13. > :49:17.The economic argument is completely flawed. In 20 years' time, when
:49:17. > :49:21.this but it may or may not come to fruition, I think video-
:49:21. > :49:25.conferencing, to roll out of super- fast Broadbent, people will not
:49:25. > :49:32.trouble for business, it will be done over the internet. People will
:49:32. > :49:38.still travel for pleasure, and that means spending money. If you think
:49:38. > :49:43.people in London on going to say let's go to Birmingham more people
:49:43. > :49:48.are Byrne sake let's go to London, I think it will draw more money to
:49:48. > :49:53.London. I found myself in agreement with most things that Patrick
:49:53. > :49:58.McLoughlin said. HS2 was a Labour idea where club that the government
:49:58. > :50:02.are pushing ahead. This is about increasing the capacity of our rail
:50:02. > :50:07.network. More and more people want to travel by rail and yet some of
:50:07. > :50:12.them find the roots are - from the overcrowded. This will help us to
:50:12. > :50:17.provide the step-change, to seek Nottingham and the East Midlands or
:50:17. > :50:25.somewhere that they can invest because they can get their easily
:50:25. > :50:29.from London, Birmingham and Leeds. I have spoken to thousands and
:50:29. > :50:35.thousands of business people in my career has, and one thing I can
:50:35. > :50:40.guarantee is that no-one has ever said to me is that my business is
:50:40. > :50:45.not thriving because it cannot get to London fast enough. Businesses
:50:45. > :50:49.in Nottingham and Derbyshire are saying they are in favour of HS2,
:50:49. > :50:56.they won this development to go ahead. There was the view of the
:50:56. > :51:01.chambers of commerce. Some pews from viewers. These say, there is a
:51:01. > :51:06.tunnel under East Midlands Airport, why not build the station there?
:51:06. > :51:10.That would be some consolation to my constituency do not have a
:51:10. > :51:14.station at all in North West Leicestershire. White is cities
:51:14. > :51:20.will have the pleasure of driving half an hour north to get to London
:51:20. > :51:24.half an hour earlier. I think there is a possibility of introducing
:51:25. > :51:29.extra stations into what the government have produced as the
:51:29. > :51:33.preferred route. The reason it is in Toton is because it is close to
:51:33. > :51:36.Nottingham which is the major market for use of HS2. Andrew's
:51:36. > :51:39.certainly made no secret of his opposition, but what about his
:51:39. > :51:41.constituents - do they feel the same? And are people in Lilian's
:51:41. > :51:50.Nottingham South excited by the prospect? We've sent Des Coleman to
:51:50. > :51:57.find out. The village of Appleby Magna has
:51:57. > :52:03.enjoyed the peace and quiet a rural village for 11,000 years, but that
:52:03. > :52:07.could be shattered by high-speed trains. We have come here to find
:52:07. > :52:11.out your thoughts. The only people that are going to use the HS2 of
:52:11. > :52:18.business people. The ordinary man in the street will not be using it.
:52:18. > :52:24.It is a waste of �32 billion. not think will be worse than having
:52:24. > :52:30.the M40 to running past our houses. It is very noisy and a do-nothing
:52:30. > :52:33.the railway will be noisier. If it brings jobs and income and
:52:33. > :52:38.increases the value of properties here it is well worth it. But I
:52:38. > :52:42.don't know the extent of the disruption. For the benefits of
:52:42. > :52:49.that, to me it probably would not be worth it. You will be quicker on
:52:49. > :52:55.your horse, wouldn't you? Definitely! A from the beauty of
:52:55. > :53:01.the rural countryside to the hustle and bustle of the city. We are in
:53:02. > :53:06.the constituency of Lillian to find or what they think. The millions
:53:06. > :53:10.and millions that is being spent it is never put where it is mostly
:53:10. > :53:16.needed. I think it will be a good thing. You might get a lot of
:53:16. > :53:21.people coming from London here and living here. I think they should
:53:21. > :53:30.invest more money elsewhere. Into the youngsters and get the vote in
:53:30. > :53:33.get them jobs. I have no objections to it. It is a good idea, I think.
:53:33. > :53:38.Andrew, not everyone in your constituency was against it. In
:53:38. > :53:43.Appleby Magna some people put quite supportive. I think the more they
:53:43. > :53:47.find out about the project, the more they will be against it. There
:53:47. > :53:53.was a healthy scepticism that it can be brought in on budget. I
:53:53. > :53:57.think it will be hugely over-budget, two or three times. They might
:53:57. > :54:03.build the bit from London to Birmingham. I think that part will
:54:03. > :54:08.be so over budget that a debt the rest will take place. Some of your
:54:08. > :54:10.constituents say it could be money spent better elsewhere.
:54:10. > :54:14.everyone was talk about the importance of jobs for them and
:54:15. > :54:19.their children. This is about investing in the children and the
:54:19. > :54:25.future of the country. I think Andrew is scaremongering. If we do
:54:25. > :54:30.not invest now, where does that the first? This route of HS2, going
:54:30. > :54:36.under the airport and north of the, run straight through a potential
:54:36. > :54:41.development site earmarked for 2015 for the Strategic Rail Freight into
:54:41. > :54:46.change. 7000 jobs delivered from 2015 onwards. I have a meeting on
:54:46. > :54:51.Monday try to sort set the nest of this. Patrick McLoughlin Said We
:54:51. > :54:57.could have both. If you look at the plans, it goes straight through the
:54:57. > :55:03.development site. That is a 500 million pound private sector
:55:03. > :55:08.investment. I gained keep fighting this? Absolutely. We have to keep
:55:08. > :55:11.making the point that the economic case is very fragile. We have to
:55:11. > :55:15.look at high speed trains around Europe and look at the impact of
:55:15. > :55:20.that. There will be a change in perception as they realise this is
:55:20. > :55:23.a failed project. Are you saying then that development with dollars
:55:23. > :55:27.jobs will not go ahead? I have a meeting on Monday morning to try to
:55:27. > :55:30.salvage something. As part of massive change in the
:55:30. > :55:34.way benefits are paid, Universal Credit is being rolled out later
:55:34. > :55:36.this year. Some benefits will be paid directly to claimants - with
:55:37. > :55:40.the money coming through monthly, rather than weekly and you'll have
:55:40. > :55:43.to claim online. So how will it really work out? Well, we can get a
:55:43. > :55:45.glimpse from two East Midlands councils who have been piloting
:55:45. > :55:53.different aspects of the scheme. Patcee Francis has been finding out
:55:53. > :55:58.more. A few weeks ago, Tina Given was out
:55:58. > :56:03.of work. Now she has a part-time job as a carer and to stay with her
:56:03. > :56:06.brother, all thanks to her local council, Melton Borough Council,
:56:06. > :56:11.which is try to link Universal Credit. Horns and a lot of debt, I
:56:11. > :56:16.was in a really bad place, I did not know where to go or be to ask
:56:16. > :56:21.for help. As I got deeper into it I thought there was no chance of
:56:21. > :56:28.getting out of this. With the help of her employment adviser, Tina has
:56:28. > :56:33.been able to move on. I sat and prioritised my life with the help
:56:33. > :56:39.of the adviser. She has been there and listen to me and help me move
:56:39. > :56:44.forward. Her local council here in Melton volunteered to pilot the
:56:44. > :56:48.scheme and they say what happens in this building is key to the success.
:56:48. > :56:53.The council moved into brand-new offices two years ago and invited
:56:53. > :56:57.other agencies to move in with it. It means the open-plan spaces are
:56:57. > :57:03.shared by social workers, cab advisers and Jobcentre class is
:57:03. > :57:10.about to move in as well. The pilot is focused on a working age benefit
:57:10. > :57:13.claimants, of which we have about 1800. As Universal Credit will be a
:57:13. > :57:19.digital by default service we need to look at how we can support
:57:19. > :57:25.people to manage their claims. is a similar story in neighbouring
:57:25. > :57:29.Rushcliffe. It is taking part in the Brent -- the pilot and enduring
:57:29. > :57:35.people have access to on-line services. They can come to
:57:35. > :57:37.reception and get self-service access. For those people that can
:57:38. > :57:42.get access but are perhaps a bit confused we can help them find
:57:42. > :57:47.their way through. And then there are the people who or perhaps
:57:47. > :57:51.involved with other agencies, so we are offering an integrated system
:57:51. > :57:56.where we can actually talk and to introduce them to other agencies as
:57:56. > :58:01.well. These councils are looking at small parts of what will be a
:58:01. > :58:06.radical overhaul of benefits. At Melton they have found that around
:58:06. > :58:10.30 % of people that they deal with need help with online services.
:58:10. > :58:14.is the biggest change to the welfare system in a generation so
:58:14. > :58:17.we do not underestimate those challenges. But certainly we are
:58:17. > :58:23.having some success in terms of how we are working with people at an
:58:23. > :58:25.individual level. We are cautiously optimistic that the partnership
:58:25. > :58:29.working will give people the support that they need in a way
:58:30. > :58:34.that is better than they have had before. Everything now is looking
:58:34. > :58:38.more positive and coming out of the dark side into the light. Both
:58:38. > :58:43.councils have found that by working smarter they can target people
:58:43. > :58:48.effectively, but they also know it is a challenge, especially for
:58:48. > :58:52.larger councils. Rushcliffe has around 4000 people on housing
:58:52. > :58:56.benefit. When you cross Trent Bridge to Nottingham that figure
:58:56. > :58:59.changes to around 40,000 people, and it is a knee when large
:58:59. > :59:05.authorities like this role that the benefit changes that we will know
:59:05. > :59:09.the true impact. Andrew, it is one thing trying out
:59:09. > :59:13.in places like Melton and Rushcliffe, but bring it to the
:59:13. > :59:20.cities and will be a different story. That is why it is being
:59:20. > :59:23.tried out in smaller places to start with. It is totemic for us
:59:23. > :59:27.and Iain Duncan Smith and his department have done a lot of work
:59:27. > :59:30.on this. I'm really pleased that those administering it are very
:59:30. > :59:34.optimistic in the pilot. There are going to be glitches but they have
:59:34. > :59:39.to be ironed out now so that when it moves forward in October it is
:59:39. > :59:43.as smooth as possible. Lilian does it not make sense to encourage
:59:43. > :59:46.people to take charge of their own affairs? I do not think anybody
:59:46. > :59:56.would argue that it is not in our interest to help people move
:59:56. > :00:01.forward. One worry is do that local authorities are not responsible for
:00:01. > :00:05.administering a Universal Credit. Colossal people express concern
:00:05. > :00:08.about the third to to do people who need help with making applications
:00:08. > :00:12.online and local authorities have not been given any extra
:00:13. > :00:16.authorities to provide that help. The figures show that some two % of
:00:16. > :00:20.those on benefits could handle their online themselves, they have
:00:20. > :00:25.that capacity. The rest can have help through the Jobcentre or the
:00:25. > :00:29.council. What about those people who cannot? They can go into the
:00:29. > :00:34.council and be helped. Who in the council is going to do that? We
:00:34. > :00:38.have had huge cutbacks in Nottingham city? Do not being given
:00:38. > :00:42.resources to help coach people through using the Universal Credit
:00:42. > :00:50.online. And there are many people who do not have access to IT at
:00:50. > :00:55.home. But the Jobcentre to us. It has access. But lots of Jobcentres
:00:55. > :00:57.have closed. There will be the capacity in the system to do
:00:57. > :01:05.between the council and the Jobcentre. I think that is wishful
:01:05. > :01:10.thinking. The idea of Universal Credit is not a bad one and the
:01:10. > :01:17.principle of bringing all benefits together it is all that Labour that
:01:17. > :01:21.the support it. Ironically they have taken Council Tax Act and
:01:21. > :01:25.localised that. But the timetable for introducing Universal Credit
:01:25. > :01:30.has slipped and there are real concerns about whether it is going
:01:30. > :01:34.to be ready. What would you do? think they should have slowed it
:01:34. > :01:42.down and looked at having proper support in place to enable people
:01:42. > :01:45.who do not have IT skills to perhaps use IT. A lot of my
:01:45. > :01:48.constituents go into the Jobcentre and feel that they are on a
:01:48. > :01:54.conveyor belt, they are lucky if they get a couple of minutes with
:01:54. > :01:57.an adviser. To get some of the people who are long-term unemployed,
:01:57. > :02:02.they Nick Weal, intensive support over a long period and a lot of
:02:02. > :02:07.them are not getting it. Are the resources there to help those who
:02:07. > :02:12.really needed? This is going to be a gradual bowl-out and resources we
:02:12. > :02:17.made available. I think you have parts of the country but a later on
:02:17. > :02:22.in the role it will be saying, why have we not got Universal Credit?
:02:22. > :02:25.The figures from the Government's own impact assessment also showed
:02:25. > :02:30.that 2.8 million households will end up with less money as a result
:02:30. > :02:35.of the introduction of Universal Credit, including 1.7 million
:02:35. > :02:38.families. I think when people start to see the money going down, that
:02:38. > :02:45.they will be very worried. There is a lot are concerned about this, and
:02:45. > :02:52.drew. But the poorest a good be on average �168 better off under
:02:52. > :02:57.Universal Credit. You have a system where work always pays. You'll be
:02:57. > :03:01.up to take temporary work without losing all your benefits. That is
:03:02. > :03:04.simply not true. There are good be huge cliff edges. But the moment
:03:04. > :03:09.there will be people who have to give up work or reduce their hours
:03:09. > :03:17.in order to make sure they are not hitting a huge cliff edge. There
:03:17. > :03:22.are lots of questions remaining that need to be answered. The pilot
:03:22. > :03:27.showed that people are keen on it. Another concern is that there is so
:03:27. > :03:32.much all at once. It is not just Universal Credit that is changing,
:03:32. > :03:36.it is all the other ones as well. As long as the system works, and
:03:36. > :03:41.the parlous a Kodak, people seem perfectly happy with it. People are
:03:41. > :03:45.not good be happy when for the first time they have paid be
:03:45. > :03:51.required to pay council tax, people living in the family home who are
:03:51. > :03:54.suddenly hit by the bedroom tax. People in not in South are
:03:54. > :04:04.incredibly worried. These are people on the very lowest incomes
:04:04. > :04:09.
:04:09. > :04:14.and there do not know how they are But the 91st time buyers have been
:04:14. > :04:18.held on to the property ladder by a Leicester council scheme. But it
:04:18. > :04:22.will be provided �2 million to banks to encourage them to offer
:04:22. > :04:27.mortgages to buyers. It has been so successful that the council is
:04:27. > :04:31.releasing another �2 million. Plans to charge people for prime been
:04:31. > :04:36.collections in Derby have been criticised by a local government
:04:36. > :04:41.minister. Eric Pickles says he is disappointed that the council is to
:04:41. > :04:46.charge �40 a year for the service. People in Rutland are being offered
:04:46. > :04:49.the chance to claim free solar panels for their homes. Rutland
:04:49. > :04:55.council has want �200,000 of government funding and is looking
:04:55. > :04:59.for 50p to take part. Derby is to get an �80 million flood
:04:59. > :05:03.alleviation scheme along the River Derwent. Around 600 homes and
:05:03. > :05:10.businesses will be protected although some buildings may be
:05:10. > :05:16.demolished to make way for the defences.