:00:42. > :00:52.Downing Street is at war with Fleet Street this morning. The coach of
:00:52. > :01:28.
:01:28. > :01:33.the touring party. This is the end to save some -- hundreds of jobs and
:01:33. > :01:43.thousands of pensions in the coal industry. Europe, in or out? Do you
:01:43. > :01:43.
:01:43. > :37:32.Apology for the loss of subtitles for 2148 seconds
:37:32. > :37:39.In the East Midlands. So, do you want a referendum on Europe? What's
:37:39. > :37:45.your opinion? I'm out, straight away. We are in, we should stay in.
:37:45. > :37:49.We should make the best of it. Uncertainty about the last deep
:37:49. > :37:51.curve line brings concerns over the pension payout for thousands of
:37:51. > :37:53.miners. Hello, I'm Marie Ashby. Joining me
:37:53. > :37:57.this week the Conservative MP for Sherwood, Mark Spencer, and Labour's
:37:57. > :37:59.MP for Gedling, Vernon Coaker. First let's take a look at some
:37:59. > :38:04.extraordinary goings on in Lincolnshire with the county's
:38:04. > :38:07.Police and Crime Commissioner, Alan Hardwick. He was giving evidence to
:38:07. > :38:10.a Parliamentary Committee on PCCs this week and had an uncomfortable
:38:10. > :38:12.time with Keith Vaz, the chair of the Home Affairs Select Committee.
:38:12. > :38:20.He was quizzed over his decision to suspend Lincolnshire's Chief
:38:20. > :38:30.Constable, a decision that was then overturned by the High Court.
:38:30. > :38:35.Do you now regret suspending him? The situation was that I was
:38:35. > :38:40.convinced that I had made the right decision, and I remain convinced
:38:40. > :38:46.that I made the right decision. a judge has described the decisions
:38:46. > :38:52.that you took as perverse and irrational. I accept it entirely,
:38:53. > :38:58.that criticism. The point that was discussed at the judicial review was
:38:59. > :39:02.a very narrow point about interpretation of a particular set
:39:03. > :39:10.of circumstances. My interpretation went one way, the judge 's
:39:10. > :39:12.interpretation went another way. I still maintain that might
:39:12. > :39:16.interpretation was correct. -- that my interpretation was correct.
:39:16. > :39:25.it difficult for you, as the commissioner, to be working with the
:39:25. > :39:29.chief constable whom you believe should not be in post? No, it is not
:39:29. > :39:36.difficult for me. We are both professionals, we have a very good
:39:36. > :39:43.relationship. It has cost the taxpayer �50,000 in respect of your
:39:43. > :39:46.High Court case. Who will pay the costs that comes? -- who will pay
:39:46. > :39:50.the costs? That'll come from my office.
:39:50. > :39:55.And as if that wasn't enough, the Chairman of the Police and Crime
:39:55. > :39:59.Panel, Ray Wootten, resigned from his post on Thursday. Quite an
:39:59. > :40:04.interesting time in Lincolnshire with the PCC having to work with a
:40:04. > :40:08.chief constable he wanted to suspend. Awkward. At least we know
:40:08. > :40:12.about it. In the past, with police authorities, some of these frictions
:40:12. > :40:18.and decisions were hidden away and we didn't know but at least we know
:40:18. > :40:21.about it now. We might not like it, and we might be able to get rid of
:40:21. > :40:25.him when it comes around to elections away. There was no
:40:25. > :40:31.accountability before. Before, people who were put onto
:40:31. > :40:37.authorities, they didn't have a say on to sat on those authorities, and
:40:37. > :40:42.now we can hold them to account. this a sign that the PCC experiment
:40:42. > :40:47.is not working? This is what people warned might happen. This has been
:40:47. > :40:52.farcical. People scratching their heads in the world and. One of the
:40:52. > :40:56.things we raised when the bill was going through Parliament to set up
:40:56. > :41:00.PCCs was this business of checks and balances, how do you hold them to
:41:00. > :41:07.account? It is very well saying it is transparent and you can do
:41:07. > :41:11.something about it, but not the four years. And it has cost �50,000
:41:11. > :41:16.already. Four years is the right period. You need time to establish
:41:16. > :41:19.yourself and deliver your programme. He is costing the taxpayer in his
:41:19. > :41:22.county already. He has made the wrong decision and I don't support
:41:22. > :41:31.him in that decision and I think the Electric should get rid of him that
:41:31. > :41:34.the next opportunity. -- the electric electorate.
:41:34. > :41:37.It's a story we'll be watching in the coming weeks. And here's another
:41:37. > :41:40.one. The fate of hundreds of jobs and thousands of pensions in the
:41:40. > :41:43.East Midlands hangs in the balance this weekend as UK Coal fights for
:41:43. > :41:45.survival. The company's hit financial problems after it was
:41:45. > :41:48.forced to close the Daw Mill Colliery in Warwickshire, because of
:41:48. > :41:54.an underground fire. As our Political Editor John Hess reports,
:41:54. > :41:58.it has big implications for our region.
:41:58. > :42:02.This is Sherwood Forest Notts. It is one of the last handful deep
:42:02. > :42:07.combines left in Britain. It is profitable and there are still huge
:42:07. > :42:11.reserves of underground. It is -- it's very future is in doubt because
:42:11. > :42:15.of one of the worst underground fires at a similar mind is 70 miles
:42:15. > :42:21.south of here. Daw Mill Colliery in North Warwickshire. It's been forced
:42:21. > :42:25.to shut. Several hundred miners have been laid off. Given it was the most
:42:25. > :42:31.ferocious fire in 30 years of UK mining, we've had no option to close
:42:31. > :42:36.that mind permanently. Uncertainty over the future of UK Coal,
:42:36. > :42:42.Britain's largest coal producer, has knock-on effects outdoors B. The
:42:42. > :42:47.outcome will remain -- will affect the workforce and the pensions of
:42:47. > :42:51.thousands of miners who used to work here. Alan Bell's worked it as a
:42:51. > :42:58.fitter since he left school. He fears losing thousands from his
:42:58. > :43:08.works pension. Definitely. Have you worked out how much? 30 grand.
:43:08. > :43:12.That's a big hit. As far as retirement goes, it is a no-no.
:43:12. > :43:17.Andrew McKenzie transferred here from Daw Mill Colliery. We are angry
:43:17. > :43:22.but if you want a job, you've got to take cuts in, one way or another.
:43:22. > :43:27.Clearly, employees long-term benefits, and do they have a job,
:43:27. > :43:32.are we going to secure that, clearly a pension is a big part of that
:43:32. > :43:37.benefit. That is not lost on us and we're working with lots of
:43:37. > :43:40.departments in government to safeguard that. Those talks with
:43:40. > :43:45.ministers include the possibility of Daw Mill Colliery and the pension
:43:45. > :43:49.scheme being taken over by the government. Nottinghamshire miners
:43:49. > :43:52.leader is pressing coalition ministers for an early decision.
:43:52. > :43:56.Drop uncertainty, pension uncertainty means a lot more from
:43:56. > :44:00.government and local MPs to do more communicating, try to get the
:44:00. > :44:04.assistance and not just talk. Britain's 1,000 mines were
:44:04. > :44:11.nationalised by the post-war Labour government, there were 47 collieries
:44:11. > :44:16.in Nottinghamshire alone. Call employs 700,000 men. And now? The
:44:16. > :44:20.most important point is we safeguard 2000 jobs and look after our
:44:20. > :44:25.creditors to make sure we have a viable mining business. Where that
:44:25. > :44:29.ends up, we don't know, but we're working very hard to get there.
:44:29. > :44:36.There has been mining him for 90 years but will Nottinghamshire's
:44:36. > :44:40.remaining pit see out its centenary? Mark Spencer, you are heavily
:44:40. > :44:44.involved in this, what are you doing and what can you do? I am being a
:44:44. > :44:49.bit selfish about it because this one is more important than Daw Mill
:44:49. > :44:53.Colliery. I'm trying to make sure that the jobs there are safe, and I
:44:53. > :44:58.hope that the fire at Daw Mill Colliery doesn't drag it down with
:44:58. > :45:01.it. We have been fairly well supported with the ministers. They
:45:01. > :45:06.are working with UK Coal to get to the right point and make sure those
:45:06. > :45:11.jobs are protected. So it is about meetings at the moment? It is about
:45:11. > :45:14.trying to get to the position where we can secure those jobs but also
:45:14. > :45:23.remember there is the redundancies to sort out at Daw Mill Colliery and
:45:23. > :45:27.make sure people are well looked after. What about nationalisation?
:45:27. > :45:34.You've got to remember it falls on the taxpayer. If it all goes wrong,
:45:34. > :45:37.the coal authority picks up the mess. If the pensions goes wrong,
:45:37. > :45:43.the government is pretty well motivated to sort this out. It needs
:45:43. > :45:47.UK Coal and the unions to come to an agreement. So, definitely not
:45:47. > :45:53.nationalisation? I think thoughts be stands up on its own. It makes a
:45:53. > :45:56.profit. It is very well run. There's no need to nationalise it. Some of
:45:56. > :46:04.these miners and pensions may be from your constituency, so what are
:46:04. > :46:07.you doing? I think all of us have the purpose of working together to
:46:07. > :46:12.try to get a solution to this because it impacts right across the
:46:12. > :46:16.whole of the region and across the constituents. I think the crucial
:46:16. > :46:24.thing as Mark was saying is to try to ensure that Daw Mill Colliery
:46:24. > :46:28.doesn't act as a toxic mix of the rest of UK Coal. What the government
:46:28. > :46:33.are trying to do is see if they can pull out Daw Mill Colliery from the
:46:33. > :46:38.UK Coal operation so it doesn't impact on the other service
:46:38. > :46:42.operations it has gone. So it is quite a big deal because it is also
:46:42. > :46:46.about pensions and it is the pension impact that has a massive impact
:46:46. > :46:50.across the region and the government may well need to look at how it
:46:50. > :46:53.deals with that and it also needs to get the agreement of the pension
:46:53. > :46:58.regulator so it is quite complicated. But we've got to find a
:46:58. > :47:01.way of dealing with Daw Mill Colliery. What reassurances can you
:47:01. > :47:06.give to these people at this stage you are worried about their
:47:06. > :47:09.pensions? Everybody has the right motivation, everybody wants it to 60
:47:09. > :47:14.and it is a question of the government, the unions and UK Coal
:47:14. > :47:18.working together to achieve the same aim. At the moment, there is a bit
:47:18. > :47:25.of difference as to how to get there. And a bit of friction between
:47:25. > :47:29.the UK Coal and the union over redundancy. I hope we can find some
:47:29. > :47:32.common ground and find a way forward. What sort of role can you
:47:32. > :47:37.play in that? It is putting pressure on ministers said they understand
:47:37. > :47:41.the issue and they know what we want to achieve. And to make sure they
:47:41. > :47:46.are focusing on getting to the right point. They have to realise how big
:47:46. > :47:52.a deal this is for the region. say that, but what is the future of
:47:52. > :47:55.the coal? It is a dirty fuel. look at coal in the traditional
:47:55. > :48:00.sense of mining coal, but if you look at the Carbon capture schemes
:48:00. > :48:04.we are all trying to take forward, the clean coal technology, there is
:48:04. > :48:11.a future for coal. A significant part of our energy needs is
:48:11. > :48:17.dependent on deep mining, as well as imports. Does it really matter?We
:48:17. > :48:21.can see the impact on the energy market. What we need is to maintain
:48:21. > :48:24.as much of the current industry as we can and part of that is dealing
:48:25. > :48:28.with the issue at Daw Mill Colliery. To be fair to the government, whom I
:48:28. > :48:32.am a critic of most of the time, they understand that. We need to try
:48:32. > :48:36.to find a way of all of us working together to come up with a solution
:48:36. > :48:42.that protects jobs, protects the remains of the industry and the
:48:42. > :48:49.pensions of the people. So, will UK Coal survived, Mark? It will in some
:48:49. > :48:55.format. Clearly, it won't have three pits, three deep mines. I would like
:48:55. > :49:00.to see Daw Mill Colliery separated. And I would like to see it generate
:49:00. > :49:02.profits for their workers and staff. Our political editor has got a blog
:49:02. > :49:06.on this, too, and you can go to it online.
:49:06. > :49:09.Well, the big issue in Parliament this week was the vote on not having
:49:09. > :49:12.a vote. More than 100 MPs signed up to an amendment to the Queen's
:49:12. > :49:16.Speech regretting the fact that it didn't contain a bill for a
:49:16. > :49:19.referendum on Europe. A good chunk of our MPs supported it. In a
:49:19. > :49:27.moment, Des Coleman will be hearing your views, but first here's our
:49:27. > :49:37.round up of the MPs who did sign up. Almost half of our Conservative MPs
:49:37. > :50:03.
:50:03. > :50:08.voted for the amendment. They think? The question of Europe
:50:08. > :50:13.divides the country. Should we have a vote to stay in or come out? I am
:50:13. > :50:17.in Derby to find out your opinion. I've got John with me. What's your
:50:17. > :50:22.opinion? We should have a vote to come out straight away. We are part
:50:22. > :50:28.of Europe and we should be very positive about it. Should we have a
:50:28. > :50:31.vote? I don't think we should. There's a huge amount of right-wing
:50:32. > :50:38.stuff around at the moment. People think that if we come out of
:50:38. > :50:44.Europe, it is an easy answer. isn't. Would you like a vote on
:50:44. > :50:50.whether to stay in Europe? I would opt to come out. Guys, what your
:50:50. > :50:53.thoughts? I think we should go to a vote because the advantages of
:50:53. > :50:59.staying in Europe are weighed down by the disadvantages. We are losing
:50:59. > :51:02.our industry. Look at bombarding a, they nearly went bust because we
:51:02. > :51:05.gave away a massive contract with French company because the
:51:05. > :51:09.government wanted the cheapest option. So they could have gone
:51:09. > :51:15.bust, Derby could have lost one of its biggest employers, the whole
:51:15. > :51:22.city would have been in turmoil. If people aren't happy in the EU, we
:51:22. > :51:25.should have a referendum. Should we stay in or out? I believe we should
:51:25. > :51:31.stay on but it is also rhetoric coming from MPs to say we should
:51:31. > :51:35.vote when we don't have referendums for every other thing. So, do you
:51:36. > :51:38.want to vote on Europe? I don't think we should. I think we are in,
:51:39. > :51:43.we should stay in and we should do like the rest of the Europeans,
:51:44. > :51:48.which is make the best of it. Bill Newton Dunn, East Midlands MEP
:51:48. > :51:52.for the Liberal Democrats, has joined us. People very informed on
:51:52. > :51:57.Europe in Derby, what do you think about that? It is very interesting,
:51:57. > :52:01.a variety of opinions, but basically I think there is a great lack of
:52:01. > :52:05.information across the country. At Westminster, they never talk about
:52:05. > :52:10.Europe except in disparaging terms, and they should talk about good
:52:10. > :52:16.things. We had a referendum in 1975, it is time, I think, the public were
:52:16. > :52:20.given a full-scale debate to learn the facts again. When?There is
:52:20. > :52:25.going to be a new EU treaty coming along because there are changes to
:52:25. > :52:30.the banking union, and other things. So, there is going to be a treaty
:52:30. > :52:34.which will trigger, as the legislation passed last year, saying
:52:34. > :52:40.that if there is a proposal for moving powers to Brussels, there
:52:40. > :52:44.must be a referendum, so there will be one. You are one of the people
:52:44. > :52:49.who voted for this amendment, why? It was before I was at primary
:52:49. > :52:52.school last time we had a say on Europe and we need to have that
:52:52. > :52:55.debate. I think those people who think we should stay in will have
:52:55. > :52:58.the opportunity to make those arguments and those people who want
:52:58. > :53:05.to come out will also have the opportunity for their arguments.
:53:05. > :53:09.That is all put across in a box. is it so important to do it now?
:53:09. > :53:13.don't need to do it when the relationship is stable, but Europe
:53:13. > :53:16.is moving in a direction that some of us are uncomfortable with and
:53:16. > :53:19.once the dust has settled, and we can see the direction Europe is
:53:19. > :53:25.staying in, we can choose whether or not to be part of it or come out of
:53:25. > :53:29.it. The Tory party have panicked in the wake of UKIP and people like
:53:29. > :53:35.Mark and many others are thinking, oh, my goodness, I need to save my
:53:35. > :53:39.seat and I need to demonstrate how sceptic I am. The director of the
:53:39. > :53:43.CBI said that all of this distraction was undermining jobs and
:53:43. > :53:48.growth, and I agree with him. Jobs and growth is the centre of
:53:48. > :53:52.excellence, which the City of London is put at risk, it is the influence
:53:53. > :53:58.we have in the world, because of Europe. We shouldn't panic and
:53:58. > :54:04.placate UKIP. It is panicking. are the only party that is united
:54:04. > :54:08.over Europe. We absolutely all agree we should have a referendum. The
:54:08. > :54:14.whole party agrees with that. If you look at the other night, the
:54:14. > :54:17.Conservative Party was in one lobby and the parties were split. That is
:54:17. > :54:23.something that has happened for the first time in my life. What do you
:54:23. > :54:29.have to say about that, Bill? never seen a more divided party and
:54:29. > :54:32.they've been divided about Europe for years. Face facts. You could
:54:32. > :54:35.make that document about major argument, but pretty much the whole
:54:35. > :54:38.of the Conservative Party thinks we should have a referendum and we
:54:38. > :54:43.should move to that referendum as quickly as possible. Should we be in
:54:43. > :54:51.Europe? We should look at what Europe is before we make our mind
:54:51. > :54:55.up. But do you think we should be in Europe? In a referendum today, given
:54:55. > :54:59.the relationship we have, I would vote to come out. Once that
:54:59. > :55:03.relationship has changed, that is a different argument, and once the
:55:03. > :55:07.dust has settled, I'll be able to make my mind up. You'd vote to come
:55:07. > :55:10.out of Europe, that would be detrimental for British jobs. It
:55:10. > :55:13.would be detrimental to the interests of this country, and I
:55:13. > :55:18.would vote yes. As somebody said in one of the interviews, let's engage
:55:18. > :55:22.with the debate. It is interesting you have said you would vote no.
:55:22. > :55:26.That is today. If we could change the relationship and get a positive
:55:26. > :55:31.out of Europe, that is a different argument. We can drag some of those
:55:31. > :55:35.powers back. I think it's stupid. David Cameron made a huge mistake
:55:35. > :55:39.offering a referendum in four years time. It has put a blight over
:55:39. > :55:44.Britain. Multinationals are saying, we will not risk investing in
:55:44. > :55:48.Britain for four years until we know what the situation is. We don't want
:55:48. > :55:54.a referendum now. When was a new treaty proposed, that is the moment
:55:54. > :55:57.because France and the Netherlands will also have a referendum. People
:55:57. > :56:01.in the East Midlands would like to know what the EU has done for us
:56:01. > :56:05.here before they make that decision. They have done an enormous amount. I
:56:06. > :56:10.publish a newsletter in print and online. I can tell people happily, a
:56:10. > :56:14.long list of good stuff. If we have a new treaty, what is the difference
:56:14. > :56:18.between the plight of the new treaty coming and the blight of a possible
:56:18. > :56:28.referendum? I don't understand the difference in the argument. It is
:56:28. > :56:30.
:56:30. > :56:32.quite simple. A new treaty involves referendums in various countries,
:56:32. > :56:35.Germany, France, and so on. It is a moment when all of Europe will be
:56:35. > :56:40.deciding and we will not be disadvantaged. Back to the benefits
:56:40. > :56:48.in East Midlands, tell me. Peace, free trade, free movement, leadfree
:56:48. > :56:53.petrol, fighting ISA drain -- acid rain. All sorts of things. This is
:56:53. > :57:00.European legislation. Written has a part of it in shaping it. If we were
:57:00. > :57:07.outside, we would have no say. -- Britain has a part of shaping it.
:57:07. > :57:11.continue trading in our neighbours. Without any say in the rules!
:57:11. > :57:15.also trade with all the other nations, and we can have lots of the
:57:15. > :57:24.benefits. All those countries are subject to trade agreements but the
:57:24. > :57:28.EU makes the trade agreements. Whilst the Tory party was panicking
:57:29. > :57:33.because of UKIP, the Prime Minister was in Washington talking to
:57:33. > :57:38.President Obama. He was talking to the president, negotiating a trade
:57:38. > :57:41.deal between the United States and the EU. At the same time, we had the
:57:41. > :57:46.Tory party, which I find it incredible you say is united,
:57:46. > :57:52.because most people 's analysis is they are completely not united on
:57:52. > :57:55.this. Your party, too, to be honest. There was a few people. The Labour
:57:55. > :58:04.Party is remarkably united. There were a few people who took a
:58:04. > :58:08.different view. There were 114 Tory MPs... Lets see who devised and
:58:08. > :58:09.splits when that private members bill comes to the floor. Thank you
:58:10. > :58:12.for joining us. Now here's John with our regular
:58:13. > :58:20.round up of some of the other political stories in the East
:58:20. > :58:24.Midlands this week in 60 seconds. Leicester could become a friendlier
:58:24. > :58:29.place to cyclists after the City Council bid for more than �6 million
:58:29. > :58:33.of government money. It wants the cash to pay for more than six
:58:33. > :58:36.kilometres of traffic free cycle tracks. HS2 is in the news again.
:58:36. > :58:40.The government is considering extending a tunnel under East
:58:40. > :58:44.Midlands Airport to bypass the site of a proposed freight depot which
:58:45. > :58:48.could create several thousand jobs. Well, the National Audit Office said
:58:48. > :58:53.it has reservations about government's claims of the economic
:58:53. > :58:58.benefits of HS2. The ruling Labour group on double check out council is
:58:58. > :59:03.already making waves. The council's Chief Executive is to leave by the
:59:03. > :59:07.end of June. The council's new leader has refused to comment on the
:59:07. > :59:11.move. And research by the University of Nottingham has found that the
:59:11. > :59:15.current parliament could be the most rebellious since the war. It's
:59:15. > :59:23.calculated rebellions have fallen slightly this year but they are
:59:23. > :59:28.still well ahead of the average number of backbench revolts.
:59:28. > :59:35.Politicians revolting? You are so rebellious, why? The intake has come
:59:35. > :59:41.from a different place. Has that Whaley made a difference? Because
:59:41. > :59:43.you've got other jobs? I understand it is my job to represent shield in
:59:43. > :59:49.Westminster -- Sherwood. If that means disagreeing with the
:59:49. > :59:55.government, so be it. I am not revolting. I stand up for my
:59:55. > :59:59.constituents. I stood for the Labour Party, I am proud to stand for them.
:59:59. > :00:06.I have the Labour whip in Parliament and I do that and represent the
:00:06. > :00:12.interests of gelding as well. Gedling. It certainly makes politics