:00:36. > :00:44.Morning, folks. Welcome to the Sunday Politics. Ed Miliband and the
:00:44. > :00:47.rest of the Labour clan are in Brighton for their party conference
:00:47. > :00:52.this weekend. He's promised policies galore. But as a Sunday Politics
:00:52. > :00:55.poll finds a third of his own councillors don't think he's doing a
:00:55. > :00:59.good job, will that be enough to steady the Labour ship?
:00:59. > :01:02.Back in Westminster, they're partying like it's 2006, as Damian
:01:02. > :01:08.McBride's memoirs re-ignite the Blair-Brown wars. Alastair Campbell
:01:08. > :01:12.will tell us why he is sickened by the former Brown spin doctor.
:01:12. > :01:15.And speaking of political infighting, Conservative Party
:01:15. > :01:16.Chairman Grant Shapps will give his response to the rampant Tory-bashing
:01:16. > :01:25.In the East Midlands, praise for our at the Lib Dem Conference
:01:25. > :01:28.In the East Midlands, praise for our politicians for their role in
:01:28. > :01:31.helping a community cope with five shocking deaths in one city.
:01:31. > :01:36.business. In London, Labour commands over the two thirds of the ethnic
:01:36. > :01:44.minority vote but now stands accused of institutional racism. Are they
:01:44. > :01:48.right? With me, the best and the brightest political panel in the
:01:49. > :01:53.business. Isabel Hardman, Janan be tweeting like demented Damians
:01:53. > :01:56.throughout the programme. First today, scrapping the bedroom tax.
:01:56. > :02:02.Universal childcare for primary school kids. More apprenticeships.
:02:02. > :02:04.Labour Conference only begins in earnest today, but the policy and
:02:04. > :02:11.spending commitments are coming according to the Labour leader's
:02:11. > :02:12.critics. He's been out and about this morning and told Andrew Marr
:02:12. > :02:23.that he knew it was going to be this morning and told Andrew Marr
:02:23. > :02:29.It is about a party that lost office three years ago. We are trying to be
:02:29. > :02:34.a one term opposition. That is tough. I believe it is a fight that
:02:34. > :02:41.we can win and I am up for that fight. The stakes are so high for
:02:41. > :02:45.young people who want a job, for people whose living standards are
:02:45. > :02:53.being squeezed. For people who think that this is not good enough for
:02:53. > :02:54.Britain. So what do key Labour Party activists - its councillors - think
:02:54. > :02:58.about the direction Mr Miliband activists - its councillors - think
:02:58. > :03:02.taking their party? Adam Fleming is in Brighton at the Party Conference
:03:02. > :03:12.with all the details of our latest exclusive Sunday Politics survey.
:03:12. > :03:19.conference set. Let us unwrap them. With the help of an opinion poll we
:03:19. > :03:24.surveyed 1350 Labour councillors across England and Wales. We wanted
:03:24. > :03:26.to find out what they think as Labour gathers for its conference.
:03:26. > :03:32.The Labour leader warmed up for Labour gathers for its conference.
:03:32. > :03:40.week by taking to his soap box in Brighton city centre. It is great
:03:40. > :03:42.week by taking to his soap box in councillors said they did not think
:03:42. > :03:48.Ed Miliband was doing a good job as leader. 30% said they thought the
:03:48. > :03:55.party would have a better chance if someone else was in charge at the
:03:55. > :04:01.next election. You will see more of Ed Miliband as we run-up to general
:04:01. > :04:11.election. He has been in the job for three years! Now it is crunch time.
:04:11. > :04:16.The other Ed, Ed Balls, was disliked by roughly one third of the party as
:04:16. > :04:23.well. Ed Balls is not a pop your man. He says things and he speaks
:04:23. > :04:32.his mind. -- not a popular man. diplomatic. Sadly Ed Balls did not
:04:32. > :04:39.seem to be that bothered about our survey. Over at a conference centre
:04:39. > :04:45.When it comes to relations with trade unions, the majority of Labour
:04:45. > :04:50.councillors thought things were absolutely fine. Just 9% thought
:04:50. > :04:56.things with the unions were a little bit too close. Tricky because Ed
:04:57. > :05:00.Miliband want to loosen the link. The shadow environment secretary
:05:00. > :05:08.arrived in Brighton ride bicycle from London to raise money for
:05:08. > :05:10.councillors what they would do if the next election results in a hung
:05:10. > :05:16.parliament, just over half said the next election results in a hung
:05:16. > :05:20.would tell the lid Dems to get on their bikes. We would never say
:05:20. > :05:23.would tell the lid Dems to get on to going into coalition. It gives us
:05:23. > :05:27.the chance to be in government and prepare some of the damage of the
:05:27. > :05:32.last three years. So are you going to start being nice about the Lib
:05:32. > :05:37.Dems? I always treat them with courtesy. And the parties admitted
:05:37. > :05:44.that perhaps they had opened the door to too many immigrants. It
:05:44. > :05:46.that perhaps they had opened the our survey Labour councillors of
:05:46. > :05:52.warming the felt that immigration We're now joined by the Shadow Chief
:05:53. > :06:03.Secretary to the Treasury, Rachel Reeves. Good morning. Let us start
:06:03. > :06:10.with Ed Miliband. Is it true that the team insisted that he be called
:06:10. > :06:17.the leader? I just call him Ed and I think the rest of the Shadow Cabinet
:06:17. > :06:25.do. Do you welcome working for a leader that says he is winning back
:06:26. > :06:34.socialism? We are a democratic important thing is that we have
:06:34. > :06:37.socialism? We are a democratic policies that will improve people 's
:06:37. > :06:42.lives and tackle the cost of living crisis facing so many families.
:06:42. > :06:48.Policies like expanding childcare, offering more apprenticeships, all
:06:49. > :06:53.policies that I think the country are calling out for after three
:06:54. > :07:01.years of a flat-lining economy and seeing prices rise faster than wages
:07:01. > :07:08.for 38 out of the 39 months but Minister. I think that is the most
:07:08. > :07:13.important thing. So it is OK now to risk their to the Labour Party again
:07:13. > :07:18.as the Socialist party? The clue is in the name, we stand up for working
:07:18. > :07:23.people. You are socialist party according to the leader. We have
:07:23. > :07:27.always been the Labour Party, that is our name and we stand up for
:07:27. > :07:33.working people, not the privileged few like this government with their
:07:33. > :07:39.tax cuts for millionaires. Those are privileged few. The Labour Party is
:07:39. > :07:48.about helping everyone in Britain, all families. Interesting that your
:07:49. > :07:52.run don't use the word socialist. In our survey one third of Labour
:07:52. > :08:01.councillors said Ed Miliband was not doing a good job as leader. If he
:08:01. > :08:02.councillors, who can he convince? Well you could say that two thirds
:08:02. > :08:08.of councillors think that he is Well you could say that two thirds
:08:08. > :08:13.right leader. But these are Labour councillors. The overall majority of
:08:13. > :08:22.Labour councillors think that he is doing a good job. What matters is
:08:22. > :08:28.the results on election day. Two thirds of councillors think that he
:08:28. > :08:32.is doing a good job. That us see what they say at the end of this
:08:32. > :08:37.week. Because I think the policies he is announcing will go down well
:08:37. > :08:38.week. Because I think the policies with Labour Party people and will
:08:38. > :08:40.also resonate with the British public. Policies like expanding
:08:40. > :08:47.apprenticeships, giving a break public. Policies like expanding
:08:47. > :08:51.struggling. I think people will public. Policies like expanding
:08:51. > :08:58.what kind of a leader that he is. Well he has a mountain to climb
:08:58. > :09:02.among all voters. Let me ask the question. Just 12% see him as a
:09:02. > :09:07.Prime Minister in waiting, just question. Just 12% see him as a
:09:07. > :09:10.see him as a natural leader. Why? If question. Just 12% see him as a
:09:10. > :09:15.you look at the overall opinion polls, we are consistently ahead in
:09:16. > :09:26.those polls. It is hard being leader Minister. By nature you are in
:09:26. > :09:31.opposition. But he has taken on Rupert Murdoch and the press barons.
:09:31. > :09:37.That is strong leadership, standing up to the vast majority. If you
:09:37. > :09:41.That is strong leadership, standing at his reforms to our relationship
:09:41. > :09:48.with the trade unions, strengthening ties with individual members. I
:09:48. > :09:51.think that he is a strong leader making the right decisions. If that
:09:51. > :09:57.is the case, why has the Labour making the right decisions. If that
:09:57. > :10:04.gone from 14 points one year ago to at most four points now. What went
:10:04. > :10:08.wrong? Well we are six or eight are six or eight points ahead in the
:10:08. > :10:14.consistently ahead. It looks as are six or eight points ahead in the
:10:14. > :10:17.we would get an overall majority if there was an election tomorrow.
:10:17. > :10:18.we would get an overall majority if we have more work to do to convince
:10:18. > :10:25.more people to vote for Labour. we have more work to do to convince
:10:25. > :10:29.a one term Labour opposition. I this is a historic challenge, to be
:10:29. > :10:31.a one term Labour opposition. I believe that Ed Miliband will be the
:10:31. > :10:38.next Labour Prime Minister and will be an excellent Prime Minister. The
:10:38. > :10:41.big policy announcement today is the guaranteed childcare for all primary
:10:41. > :10:52.school children. How much will that government, they ring fenced money
:10:52. > :10:55.after-school and breakfast clubs. We think that money should be ring
:10:55. > :11:01.fenced again. How much will it cost? We are saying that schools
:11:01. > :11:04.within their budgets should be able to provide that. At the moment they
:11:05. > :11:12.can charge for children to come to provide that. At the moment they
:11:12. > :11:17.their first clubs. But this is a additional money. As it was under
:11:17. > :11:22.the last Labour government it will be about ring fencing money because
:11:22. > :11:27.we think that this is a priority. This is something that the schools
:11:27. > :11:37.should do. You cannot ring fenced money you do not have. You saying
:11:37. > :11:41.schoolchild from eight o'clock in the morning until six o'clock at
:11:41. > :11:45.night and it will not cost any more money? Well we did ring fence that
:11:46. > :11:52.money in the last Labour government. That money is gone! It has not gone.
:11:52. > :12:02.It is about priorities and we are saying that it should be a priority
:12:02. > :12:07.where is the money being spent now that you would take it from? If
:12:07. > :12:09.where is the money being spent now look at some of the things that
:12:09. > :12:11.where is the money being spent now government is doing, building free
:12:11. > :12:19.schools in areas where there are already enough. That is capital
:12:19. > :12:26.spending. We are ring fencing that priorities. We had the ring fence
:12:26. > :12:29.when we were in government. It would be reintroduced so that schools
:12:29. > :12:31.when we were in government. It would to offer that wraparound care. Of
:12:31. > :12:36.course schools can charge a small to offer that wraparound care. Of
:12:36. > :12:41.fee for their breakfast clubs and after-school DVDs. But the important
:12:41. > :12:48.thing is that provision is there for parents going out to work. Ed Balls
:12:48. > :12:55.and Ed Miliband are at the heart of the Brown project. Damien Wright was
:12:55. > :12:59.the hit man. Is it not inconceivable that they did not know what he was
:12:59. > :13:08.the hit man. Is it not inconceivable up to. It is inconceivable that
:13:08. > :13:09.the hit man. Is it not inconceivable did not -- Damian McBride. I am
:13:09. > :13:14.asking about Damian McBride. What did not -- Damian McBride. I am
:13:14. > :13:18.asking about Damian McBride. What I'm saying is that I was not there.
:13:18. > :13:25.I was not there under the last Labour government. But I do know
:13:25. > :13:37.that these things are not happening under the leadership of Ed Miliband.
:13:37. > :13:42.that backstabbing going on. There is no plotting against Ed Balls going
:13:42. > :13:50.on? I do not see that. And anyone who briefed against colleagues
:13:50. > :13:55.should be sacked, I agree with that. Nick Clegg's conference speech made
:13:55. > :14:00.it clear he was repaired to work with Ed Miliband in the event of a
:14:00. > :14:13.hung parliament. Are you excited by that prospect or is it just boring?
:14:13. > :14:19.to say that. With his poll ratings of 9%. I think it is up to the
:14:19. > :14:23.general public to decide who they want to form a government. We are
:14:23. > :14:38.campaigning for an overall Labour that just boring boring? I want
:14:38. > :14:41.campaigning for an overall Labour serve in a Labour government is
:14:41. > :14:44.campaigning for an overall Labour a coalition government. That is
:14:44. > :14:44.campaigning for an overall Labour we are campaigning for. Thank you
:14:44. > :14:49.for joining us. Steve Richards, we are campaigning for. Thank you
:14:49. > :14:57.has Ed Miliband got to do this week? He has got to start to win the
:14:58. > :15:02.argument about the economy. I think they will be quite clever on that in
:15:02. > :15:08.terms of saying that the recovery has begun but it is not going to
:15:08. > :15:13.benefit many of the voters. Unlike previous economic recoveries. That
:15:13. > :15:23.is a strong line and they need to make that again and again. The
:15:24. > :15:26.recovery has barely started. The make that again and again. The
:15:26. > :15:29.interesting thing, Isabel, they make that again and again. The
:15:29. > :15:34.to make a living standards the issue let's return to living standards
:15:34. > :15:36.which have been squeezed. The polls show that twice as many people blame
:15:36. > :15:42.Labour for the living standards show that twice as many people blame
:15:43. > :15:47.the Conservatives. It is a great scene for them to mine, and it is
:15:47. > :15:50.the only one before they announce big policies, but they have not
:15:50. > :15:53.gained the trust of voters on the economy, so the Conservatives can
:15:53. > :16:01.say they are finishing the job of fixing the recovery now and then
:16:01. > :16:02.cannot quite trust us with the economy but we will talk about
:16:02. > :16:09.living standards. Ed Miliband's economy but we will talk about
:16:09. > :16:14.elucidating policies and not just incredibly vulnerable. The only
:16:14. > :16:22.thing worse than not having a policy for an opposition leader is to have
:16:22. > :16:26.a policy. It gives the opposition something to attack, the media
:16:26. > :16:31.something to scrutinise and it makes you bold rubble and you can see
:16:31. > :16:32.something to scrutinise and it makes coming through already before the
:16:32. > :16:41.conference has started. You have childcare. Spigot can he provide
:16:41. > :16:47.wraparound childcare for free? childcare. Spigot can he provide
:16:47. > :16:56.can he provide wraparound childcare for free? I don't even know what it
:16:56. > :16:59.is. Opposition is emphatically an art form, and the art form, and
:16:59. > :17:00.artform for them at the moment is to artform for them at the moment is to
:17:00. > :17:05.announce policies without spending any money and it is very difficult
:17:05. > :17:09.to do. You gave an illustration any money and it is very difficult
:17:09. > :17:14.how difficult it is. They are under huge pressure, for the last year, to
:17:14. > :17:18.announce policies and they announce one on childcare and you immediately
:17:18. > :17:22.say, how do you paper it? And she immediately says, we will not spend
:17:22. > :17:28.a penny on it, because they are terrified of spending anything.
:17:28. > :17:32.a penny on it, because they are is where it an artform. The tax
:17:32. > :17:36.suspension before and election is crazy, because they will find money
:17:36. > :17:41.one way or another, but in another way, they cannot say we will spend
:17:41. > :17:44.money on this. It is a real problem. How do you measure the state of
:17:44. > :17:47.money on this. It is a real problem. coalition after the Liberal Democrat
:17:47. > :17:51.conference? The Liberal Democrats were in a very strong position after
:17:51. > :17:55.their conference, Nick Clegg had faced and activists on some issues,
:17:55. > :17:59.including fracking, which they supported, which seem to be the
:17:59. > :18:02.including fracking, which they important part of the conference. In
:18:02. > :18:06.terms of the coalition, the Tories have had to sit and watch as Vince
:18:06. > :18:09.Cable, Nick Clegg and Coe have basically criticised them and said
:18:10. > :18:13.they are evil and only the Lib Dems can make sure the Government is
:18:13. > :18:14.they are evil and only the Lib Dems and works properly. So in terms
:18:14. > :18:17.they are evil and only the Lib Dems how the coalition works, you can
:18:17. > :18:25.expect to see some revenge at the Tory conference. The Lib Dems, Nick
:18:25. > :18:32.Clegg's followers, they had their revenge. Mister Clegg may have
:18:32. > :18:38.convinced his own activists to stay behind him, but he has a bigger
:18:38. > :18:41.convincing the British people. There is some interesting polling they
:18:41. > :18:46.have done privately that suggests there is a market of about 25% of
:18:46. > :18:49.the electorate which is plausibly open to them, and all they have
:18:49. > :18:51.the electorate which is plausibly do is target policies remorselessly
:18:51. > :18:55.at that group, rather than the broader public, in order to do well
:18:55. > :18:57.enough at the next election to hold the balance of power. That is why
:18:57. > :19:01.policies that seem weird to us, the balance of power. That is why
:19:01. > :19:15.free school meals regardless of income, may perversely make sense to
:19:15. > :19:17.them. Because it appeals to their political world we are in, the
:19:17. > :19:19.Labour strategists think they can political world we are in, the
:19:19. > :19:20.Labour strategists think they can win with 35%, the Lib Dems are going
:19:20. > :19:22.to concentrate on 25. The Tories win with 35%, the Lib Dems are going
:19:22. > :19:24.to concentrate on 25. The Tories have seized to be a national party
:19:24. > :19:28.any more. We haven't been used to it for a long time. In the 80s, one
:19:28. > :19:32.party dominated, the Tories. In for a long time. In the 80s, one
:19:32. > :19:39.90s into the 21st century, the policy matter delayed the Labour
:19:39. > :19:42.Party dominated. -- the Labour party dominated. We are now here but we
:19:42. > :19:46.have other parties hoping that dominated. We are now here but we
:19:46. > :19:49.will give them a small overall majority and it is the best they can
:19:49. > :19:55.get. It is a very odd situation where the main two parties feel
:19:55. > :20:00.get. It is a very odd situation can lose and the Lib Dems are openly
:20:00. > :20:05.targeting only 25%. They have gotten rid of 75% already and it is a long
:20:05. > :20:12.way from the policies of last couple of decades Nick Clegg talked about
:20:12. > :20:15.all of the policies he had locked. There is a real opportunity for
:20:15. > :20:17.all of the policies he had locked. Conservatives to say that he is
:20:17. > :20:21.blocking all of the things that voters outside of our bays are
:20:21. > :20:26.interested in, top immigration policy, human rights reform, that
:20:26. > :20:30.sort of thing. David Cameron can say that in Manchester next week. One
:20:30. > :20:46.thing was quite clear, it came out of this awayday, and and this is
:20:46. > :20:51.this, that when you look at Mister Miller band's polls, the Tories
:20:51. > :20:57.this, that when you look at Mister going to make this a presidential
:20:57. > :21:03.Which is why I am curious why they When the strength of your party
:21:03. > :21:07.Which is why I am curious why they against his opponents, why not have
:21:07. > :21:09.him or her juxtaposed against them in 90 minutes three times a week.
:21:09. > :21:17.past week has given us inklings When the Lib Dems gathered for their
:21:17. > :21:23.Government is planning on fighting When the Lib Dems gathered for their
:21:23. > :21:31.annual shindig in Glasgow, some about their blue blood fellows.
:21:31. > :21:35.annual shindig in Glasgow, some bedfellows. Vince Cable led the
:21:35. > :21:38.annual shindig in Glasgow, some Tories had reverted to type as a
:21:38. > :21:44.nasty party and describe their politics as ugly, cynical, callous
:21:44. > :21:47.and prejudice. Nick Clegg did not restrict himself to policies that
:21:47. > :21:48.and prejudice. Nick Clegg did not the Lib Dems had champion, such
:21:48. > :21:54.and prejudice. Nick Clegg did not increasing the amount you can earn
:21:54. > :21:59.before paying tax. The Deputy Prime Minister proudly listed all of the
:21:59. > :22:02.things he had stopped the Tories from doing. Speak of scrapping
:22:02. > :22:08.housing benefit the young people, no. No to ditching the human rights
:22:08. > :22:15.act. No to weakening the protections in the equalities act. So how much
:22:15. > :22:18.of a break have the yellow brigade being on Conservative ambitions
:22:18. > :22:22.question mark in the two leaders shake hands again after the 20
:22:22. > :22:26.question mark in the two leaders election, what policies were David
:22:26. > :22:31.Cameron insist on. -- 2015? No matter how many times Nick Clegg
:22:32. > :22:48.Grant Shapps, good morning. Nick self-styled. He boasted to his
:22:48. > :22:52.conference that he had stopped the Tories from going ahead with 16
:22:52. > :22:56.policies in government. Is this accurate? I don't know but what
:22:56. > :22:59.policies in government. Is this can tell you, as your commentator
:22:59. > :23:02.Isabel said, some of the policies that we wanted them if we were a
:23:02. > :23:05.majority government sent out to that we wanted them if we were a
:23:05. > :23:09.very popular things, like reforming the human rights act and some of the
:23:10. > :23:11.problems that provides when it comes to sending people who have no right
:23:11. > :23:14.to be in this country back. So there to be in this country back. So there
:23:14. > :23:24.may be some things we could have inheritance tax cut? I don't know
:23:24. > :23:30.the details, but I think it is negotiation and sometimes you can't
:23:30. > :23:35.get everything you want, and we negotiation and sometimes you can't
:23:35. > :23:37.done the best, given where the electoral maths left us. That is why
:23:37. > :23:39.70 people in this country say they electoral maths left us. That is why
:23:39. > :23:42.70 people in this country say they would rather see a single party
:23:42. > :23:49.running the country -- why so many people. I have to say I agree. They
:23:49. > :23:53.Give me a couple of major policies that you would introduce if you
:23:53. > :23:55.Give me a couple of major policies had a majority in 2010 and were
:23:55. > :24:01.Give me a couple of major policies held back by the Lib Dems. Speaking
:24:01. > :24:07.the one I just mentioned would be Country, we have had 1,000 years of
:24:07. > :24:10.than capable of putting in place developing the law and we are more
:24:11. > :24:14.than capable of putting in place sensible laws. you would have left
:24:14. > :24:18.the European Court of human rights. We have already started the process
:24:18. > :24:23.of negotiation. There was some progress, but limited, and we would
:24:23. > :24:27.like to move further. Let me give you one other. I think this country
:24:27. > :24:30.has a great future but we can only ourselves the best place in the
:24:30. > :24:34.world to come and set up a business. ourselves the best place in the
:24:34. > :24:39.If we make ourselves the best place entrepreneurship and I think there
:24:39. > :24:44.are a host of things we could do to go further on cutting back red tape.
:24:44. > :24:51.And the Lib Dems have stopped you? I think that is the case. In what
:24:52. > :24:56.ways, if any, have the Lib Dems improved the coalition process? It
:24:56. > :24:58.has been a stable government. No one talks about when the next election
:24:58. > :25:04.will come, we know it is in May talks about when the next election
:25:04. > :25:10.but that is in part being in a coalition. The Tories wouldn't have
:25:10. > :25:16.done that? It wasn't the plan of any party to go from... In the old days,
:25:16. > :25:21.there would have been speculation. debate, you changed the British
:25:21. > :25:27.constitution in a fundamental way and nobody got a say. It was debated
:25:27. > :25:33.on the floor of the Has, as all constitutional changes are and there
:25:33. > :25:36.was a lot of agreement -- of the House. Nobody has ever said to me
:25:36. > :25:44.that it is a problem that we now have a fixed term parliament. Here
:25:44. > :25:49.it is, every five years. This is what it has done, it has provided
:25:49. > :25:52.stability in an incredibly uncertain economic time and that has been
:25:52. > :26:01.stability in an incredibly uncertain for the economy. we will chalk that
:26:01. > :26:08.up to delete -- Lib Dem. What about taking people out of tax, the Lib
:26:08. > :26:15.Dems did that question mark it is a great policy. It is a conservative
:26:15. > :26:21.led government, it is a Conservative This is a screen grab from your
:26:21. > :26:25.party's website, income tax cut This is a screen grab from your
:26:25. > :26:29.25 million people. You are taking the credit for it, it wouldn't have
:26:29. > :26:33.happened without the Lib Dems. It certainly came about because of
:26:33. > :26:35.happened without the Lib Dems. It coalition and we put it in the
:26:35. > :26:36.coalition agreement. It could not have happened without a Conservative
:26:36. > :26:41.Chancellor making it happen. It have happened without a Conservative
:26:41. > :26:47.right, 25 million people taken out of tax. Another 17 by this April
:26:48. > :26:52.will not be paying tax at all. you didn't want to do it. Look at what
:26:52. > :27:06.David Cameron told Nick Clegg during What Nick Clegg is promising is
:27:06. > :27:10.David Cameron told Nick Clegg during £17 billion tax cut. We are saying,
:27:10. > :27:14.stop the waste of 6 billion to stop the national insurance rise. I would
:27:14. > :27:17.love to take everyone out of their first £10,000 of income tax, it
:27:17. > :27:24.love to take everyone out of their beautiful idea but we cannot afford
:27:24. > :27:30.unaffordable and now you are taking the credit for it. I feel like it is
:27:30. > :27:33.having a three year afterwards argument, and we got into coalition
:27:33. > :27:37.because the British people put us there and we agreed to make the best
:27:38. > :27:41.of it. And as it happens, if you want to hear a confession, I
:27:41. > :27:45.absolutely think it is the right thing to take as many people out of
:27:45. > :27:48.tax entirely as possible. Two points 7 million people pay no tax at all
:27:48. > :27:57.because of this rise in the threshold. -- 2.7 million. I'm
:27:57. > :28:01.pleased it worked out. What are the most important thing is a majority
:28:01. > :28:07.Tory government would do after 2015, unencumbered by the Lib Dems? I
:28:07. > :28:10.think produce even more jobs when unemployment goes down, because we
:28:10. > :28:14.think produce even more jobs when are the most entrepreneurial place
:28:14. > :28:19.to set up a business. Are more free-market economy? We make our
:28:20. > :28:26.money because we are out global trading economy. That is why it is
:28:26. > :28:30.so important that we have to make sure it is easy to trade around the
:28:30. > :28:34.world. One simple example, it is crazy in my view that we have global
:28:34. > :28:36.tariffs that prevent some of the hardest other countries in the
:28:36. > :28:42.world, in developing parts of the world, from exporting to us and vice
:28:43. > :28:46.versa. I'm giving you a platform of things that I think we would be more
:28:47. > :28:50.versa. I'm giving you a platform of interested in progressing in. It
:28:50. > :28:57.sounds like you are talking about even more Thatcherite, market led
:28:57. > :29:01.agendas. I think that you did a huge amount to show this country that if
:29:01. > :29:05.you want to help the least well off people in society, and the least
:29:05. > :29:09.well off people in the world, around the globe, the way to do it is to
:29:09. > :29:14.trade, and I think we should have an economy which is much more open to
:29:14. > :29:19.free trade. If there is another hung parliament, and the poll suggest
:29:19. > :29:24.there might be, at the moment it is all to play for on both sides, what
:29:24. > :29:31.would your non-negotiable Red Line speak? We are still two years away
:29:31. > :29:35.from that, it is a long way away, but there is a lot we want to lay
:29:35. > :29:40.out. What we are going to be saying to this country is most people want
:29:40. > :29:44.a single party running the country, they think it is clean and clear and
:29:44. > :29:47.you don't end up with negotiation after an election. We will be
:29:47. > :29:51.setting out a very clear platform which will be for hard-working
:29:51. > :29:55.people in this country who want to work hard and get on in life. We
:29:55. > :29:59.would, I think, want to see the welfare state that we have got into,
:29:59. > :30:02.where it is no longer about helping those most in need but became a
:30:02. > :30:08.situation where you are better off not working than in worker, I think
:30:08. > :30:12.we plan to ensure that this is an incredibly fair place to go out and
:30:12. > :30:15.do a day's work and get the money at the end of the day rather than
:30:15. > :30:19.thinking there is an alternative. you have promised a referendum on UK
:30:19. > :30:27.membership of the EU in 2017, that must be your first Red Line? We are
:30:27. > :30:35.clear, we want to see a referendum, a reform European Union. So no
:30:35. > :30:38.poll... ? I should remind viewers that there is an act of Parliament,
:30:38. > :30:46.a bill going through Parliament right now, for a referendum on the
:30:46. > :30:49.EU, which comes back to the House. It is past the report stage and
:30:49. > :30:55.comes back in November and we will be discussing it. The Lib Dems,
:30:55. > :31:00.Labour, will have an opportunity to support what the British people
:31:00. > :31:04.want. Lots may have changed. But it would be a Red Line for any future
:31:04. > :31:10.coalition government question mark we are clear that it is time to have
:31:10. > :31:16.a say. You will know from our manifesto. What is wrong with yes or
:31:16. > :31:21.no? I cannot write the manifesto for 2015. You are asking me to project
:31:21. > :31:26.beyond that and see in advance the election result and carry out the
:31:26. > :31:31.negotiations that are yet to come. I'm just trying to work out how
:31:31. > :31:41.much... I know you are committed but she won't tell me. Let's move on.
:31:41. > :31:47.Your party has been described as nasty and blinkered. What do you
:31:47. > :31:54.feel when he says that? We are interested in helping the most
:31:54. > :32:01.vulnerable people in society. I think we're doing all that and more.
:32:01. > :32:05.And it is a shame that that language was used because we have made so
:32:05. > :32:18.much progress together. Are you getting to the end of your tether
:32:18. > :32:24.with Mr King? I do not think it is terribly helpful for any Cabinet
:32:24. > :32:30.minister to make comments like that. What I would say is that Nick Clegg
:32:30. > :32:37.minister to make comments like that. is the leader of the Lib Dems and
:32:37. > :32:44.entitled to have a view on it himself. Look at these figures on
:32:44. > :32:50.party membership. Why has your party lost half of its members since Mr
:32:50. > :32:56.Cameron became leader? I would like it to be more. But I think the world
:32:56. > :33:02.has changed. People do not rush out and join political parties as they
:33:02. > :33:10.used to. Instead they support you in different ways. If I released the
:33:10. > :33:15.number of people who give to the party in different ways, through
:33:15. > :33:23.donations for example, through friend memberships. If you include
:33:23. > :33:31.that that figure goes back up. But your membership has fallen by 50% at
:33:31. > :33:40.a time when UKIP has doubled. I do not want to to misinterpret what I
:33:40. > :33:45.want to say. It is important to gain members. I think we will have done
:33:45. > :33:52.that by the time of the next election. But one statistic of
:33:52. > :33:57.interest, in the last election I had a 17,000 majority in my own
:33:57. > :34:02.constituency. The difference was I had 1000 people helping me to
:34:02. > :34:08.deliver leaflets and knock on the doors. The Conservative party has
:34:08. > :34:18.changed. We now have an army of people, volunteers who are not
:34:18. > :34:24.necessarily traditional members. The days when you expect people to give
:34:24. > :34:28.you £25, before you accept their support, those days have passed. You
:34:28. > :34:38.spoke about your most vulnerable marginal seats. This is a poll from
:34:38. > :34:45.Michael Ashcroft. The 40 most marginal seats that you will be
:34:45. > :34:54.defending. Labour is way up, you are way down and UKIP is also up. What
:34:54. > :34:59.is happening, the Lib Dem Mo -- both are moving to Labour. And
:34:59. > :35:06.disillusioned Conservatives are moving to UKIP. If these figures
:35:06. > :35:11.came at an election he would lose 32 of these 40 seats. The point about
:35:11. > :35:17.any opinion poll is that it is perhaps accurate at the moment it is
:35:17. > :35:26.taken. We are now in a position where the economy has turned the
:35:26. > :35:34.corner. The right thing to do was to deal with the deficit. The people
:35:34. > :35:36.being asked about these things, they will be interested in their own
:35:36. > :35:44.standard of living. Their mortgage payments. Why are you doing worse in
:35:44. > :35:53.the marginal seats? National League you are kind of nip and tuck with
:35:53. > :35:58.Labour. Well if that is the pick to come 2015, people will see that this
:35:58. > :36:03.government has stuck to its guns. It did not go for more borrowing and
:36:03. > :36:08.spending. And the record demonstrates that the last thing you
:36:08. > :36:14.want to do is give the car keys back to the people who crashed it in the
:36:14. > :36:21.first place. Lynton Crosby at this away day of Conservative MPs, his
:36:21. > :36:26.one message was to go all out and attack Ed Miliband. It is going to
:36:26. > :36:34.be a nasty election. That is actually not true. We are going to
:36:34. > :36:39.focus on his policies, if he finally announces some. Everything we have
:36:39. > :36:47.seen so far suggests it would mean more borrowing and spending. The
:36:47. > :36:55.shadow chancellor said we would be ruthless, just a few months later,
:36:55. > :37:04.27.9 pounds of extra spending committed by Labour. These are your
:37:04. > :37:09.figures. I will speak to you about that during the Tory conference.
:37:09. > :37:14.It's just after 11:30. You're watching the Sunday Politics. Coming
:37:14. > :37:16.up in just over 20 minutes. Alastair Campbell gives us his
:37:16. > :37:28.not-too-positive review of Damian McBride's memoirs. Until then,
:37:28. > :37:40.Good afternoon from the East Midlands. When a community is hit by
:37:40. > :37:44.tragedy, what can politicians do? People normally do not know which
:37:44. > :37:51.way to head so politics try to gel and cement the community.
:37:51. > :37:55.And seconds out for the battle of the East Midlands marginals, but
:37:55. > :38:03.does anybody have the knockout blow? Hoping to stop at Miliband in at
:38:03. > :38:08.least one seat is the Conservative MP /Ed Miliband. He is defending a
:38:08. > :38:17.tiny majority. And alongside him is the Labour MP whose majority is a
:38:17. > :38:20.potentially vulnerable 2,000. First, the reaction to the news that
:38:20. > :38:25.successful hospital managers from the NHS to be sent in to help
:38:25. > :38:33.failing hospitals including the Sherwood hospital Forest trust and
:38:33. > :38:35.United Lincolnshire hospital trust. Kingsmill hospital backs onto your
:38:35. > :38:42.constituency, how long will this move take to turn things around? It
:38:42. > :38:46.will take a while and we need to give them time to go through this
:38:46. > :38:51.process. It is an enormous organisation and you cannot do a
:38:51. > :38:56.handbrake turn in an oil tanker, you need to get the management
:38:56. > :39:00.structures in place. We need to give my constituents the confidence to
:39:00. > :39:06.keep using that facility and get it going in the right direction. Can
:39:06. > :39:14.you give us a timescale? We will have to see how they get down and
:39:14. > :39:18.the changes they can make —— get on. I would have thought about 18
:39:18. > :39:22.months, we will see things changing and hopefully we can make a quick
:39:22. > :39:26.improvement. We have to give them time to settle in and look at these
:39:26. > :39:31.things. What do you think of this move, a
:39:31. > :39:34.good move? Anything that tries to improve
:39:34. > :39:41.management in hospitals, Kingsmill, and the trust, the Sherwood Forest
:39:41. > :39:47.trust, are in transition. So if you bring good managers into assist and
:39:47. > :39:52.support change is a good thing. But you have the pressures of resources,
:39:52. > :39:56.staffing ratios. They are huge pressures and Kingsmill will be
:39:56. > :40:03.suffering the consequences of that. It has been used in schools so it is
:40:03. > :40:08.a precedent, can it work? I think it can work, it works where it is
:40:08. > :40:13.supported. A hospital from Barnsley are coming in to support the trust.
:40:13. > :40:20.If you have that trust coming in and supporting, it can work. So for the
:40:20. > :40:25.benefit of patients, that is what you want. But alongside that of the
:40:25. > :40:29.problems we know happening in the NHS with staffing cuts.
:40:30. > :40:34.Mark, you have been in contact with the new management board. They keep
:40:34. > :40:40.telling us they are getting through the key recommendations, are you
:40:40. > :40:44.convinced? I am a bit cautious. They have a gardening needs to put into
:40:44. > :40:49.action and it is down to people like me to hold that accounts to make
:40:49. > :40:53.sure they deliver on that. The one thing that is crucify the system at
:40:53. > :40:58.Kingsmill is the PFI which was signed which is crippling their
:40:58. > :41:01.finances. If we can help them get out of that, that will be the best
:41:01. > :41:06.thing. But it is an enormous challenge financially.
:41:06. > :41:11.Thank you very much. From political rows to an issue which has tested
:41:11. > :41:15.both the politicians and the people they serve. The killings in
:41:15. > :41:19.Leicester last week have shaken the different communities in the city
:41:19. > :41:22.that has been praise for the way people have dealt with the events
:41:22. > :41:29.and now there is praise from the cities 's politicians. We spoke to
:41:29. > :41:32.the city reader who said they have played it prominent part in helping
:41:32. > :41:37.to heal the wins —— from the city 's politicians.
:41:37. > :41:41.Politicians play an important role in issues like this, they like ——
:41:41. > :41:46.people look for leadership and we are fortunate in Leicester to have
:41:46. > :41:59.keep files whose constituency we are in now. —— three. I have all been
:41:59. > :42:04.meeting with us since this tragedy. —— three. They have shown solidarity
:42:04. > :42:09.and have gone the extra mile to ask if there is anything we can do to
:42:09. > :42:17.facilitate an early burial, which is a requirement. We have had meetings
:42:17. > :42:22.with various agencies and it has been marvellous. You can set an
:42:22. > :42:26.example and show leadership because at times like this, people are
:42:26. > :42:31.confused and do not know which way to head, so politicians play a role
:42:31. > :42:35.in leadership to try to cement the community and relations. This can
:42:35. > :42:42.very easily go wrong and there can be a wedge put between communities.
:42:42. > :42:46.Can they help community speak to each other and to the mainstream
:42:46. > :42:49.society? You mention the problem with burial, it is a different
:42:49. > :42:57.practice in a Muslim community, how can a politician help with that? We
:42:57. > :43:03.have signed an historic document allowing Muslims 24 hours, seven
:43:03. > :43:08.days a week access to burial services. The structures were in
:43:08. > :43:13.place where Leicester was the first city in Europe to allow this and it
:43:13. > :43:16.is continued nationally now, that is another example of how politicians
:43:16. > :43:21.helped us in the dawn of this work that we do, helped as facilitate
:43:21. > :43:27.this. Today, we see the benefits because the structures are in place
:43:27. > :43:33.were we can... Unfortunately, we usually see politicians at a time of
:43:33. > :43:38.elections asking for votes. But in a situation like this, they know
:43:38. > :43:42.community work is of significance and they have supported us, and it
:43:42. > :43:45.is something we can export from Leicester to other parts of the
:43:45. > :43:50.country. Rare praise from politicians looking
:43:50. > :43:57.to read their community. I was reporting from an event in
:43:57. > :44:01.Leicester, or one councillor spoke of the importance of staying calm
:44:01. > :44:04.together, the city Mayor said it showed the city at its best.
:44:04. > :44:11.Carefully chosen words, extremely important. It is important, you have
:44:11. > :44:14.to tiptoe around these issues because you do not want to be
:44:14. > :44:19.overbearing and interfering. Would you want to be supportive and try to
:44:19. > :44:22.help that community through that tragedy and find a way to make sure
:44:22. > :44:28.you stop that from happening in future. Or you can make it better.
:44:28. > :44:34.It is very difficult. How do you pitch it? It is one of the hardest
:44:34. > :44:39.things to do and undoubtedly, you get it wrong probably every time.
:44:39. > :44:44.You are either not supportive enough or you are to interfering. I was
:44:44. > :44:50.struck on Tuesday about how right they got it. Praise to them, it it
:44:50. > :44:53.is very difficult. And you do not want to find yourself in that
:44:53. > :44:57.circumstance but if you do, you go with your gut feeling. Vernon, your
:44:57. > :45:03.shadow brief is Northern Ireland where it has had its troubles and
:45:03. > :45:07.problems and politicians have been closely involved in getting the
:45:07. > :45:11.community together. In your experience, what role can
:45:11. > :45:15.politicians play in this? An enormous role because when something
:45:15. > :45:20.terrible happens in a community, a mixture of emotions happen. Anger,
:45:20. > :45:26.disbelief, sorrow, grief. And a sense of the world it. Sometimes,
:45:26. > :45:30.people coming out and sharing that, it if you are a community leader,
:45:30. > :45:35.makes a huge difference. If you look at Northern Ireland, where there has
:45:35. > :45:39.been a sense of injustice about something, somebody saying the right
:45:39. > :45:45.things and even Parliament, makes a difference. I give one good example,
:45:45. > :45:49.and I say this about —— as a Labour politician. The Prime Minister as
:45:49. > :45:54.his response to the Bloody Sunday enquiry, he got the tone just right
:45:54. > :45:59.a year ago. That meant a lot to the people of Northern Ireland,
:45:59. > :46:01.particularly the people in Derry, Londonderry were those killings had
:46:01. > :46:07.taken place. That made a huge difference. What came out on Tuesday
:46:07. > :46:14.was the issue of community solidarity and achieving that. It
:46:14. > :46:17.means such a lot to people. People can be cynical and say it does not,
:46:17. > :46:22.but it does matter, and the words do matter. You have to be careful to
:46:22. > :46:29.get those right, but when they do get those right, it makes a huge
:46:29. > :46:33.difference. The doctor who lost four members of his family said he got
:46:33. > :46:39.his strength from their love, how do communities provide that kind of
:46:39. > :46:42.support? It is very difficult, but you try to engage with those people
:46:42. > :46:49.and you try to pull them together and point them in a direction and
:46:49. > :46:52.read them through it. As a politician, you never want to find
:46:52. > :46:58.yourself in that circumstance but if you do, you have to go with it.
:46:58. > :47:03.People want you to be there. We leave it there for a moment. We
:47:03. > :47:06.saw dignity there in the face of tragedy in Leicester, but elsewhere,
:47:06. > :47:11.the knock—about stuff of politics continues and it does not get any
:47:11. > :47:15.more knock—about and in the marginal constituencies which could play a
:47:15. > :47:19.major role in determining the outcome of the next election. Ed
:47:19. > :47:22.Miliband might be in Brighton for the Labour Party conference, but in
:47:22. > :47:28.an interview this week, he told as our marginals were on his mind.
:47:28. > :47:34.The East Midlands is very important to us. And we will be talking about
:47:34. > :47:38.that as something very important, the cost of living crisis facing so
:47:38. > :47:43.many people. The government is saying the economy is healing and is
:47:43. > :47:47.fixed, but ordinary people think life is getting worse. At the
:47:47. > :47:52.conference, we will show how life can get better, starting with ending
:47:53. > :47:55.the bedroom tax. What is the key to winning back the marginals?
:47:55. > :48:00.According to Lord Asquith, the key is UKIP, you have increased your
:48:00. > :48:05.read because so many Tories are defecting to UKIP. The key is
:48:05. > :48:10.talking about the issues that matter, and there is nothing more
:48:10. > :48:14.than the cost of living. So many people think life is getting harder
:48:14. > :48:18.every year, the squeeze on living standards, and there is no end of
:48:18. > :48:23.sight, I fear, under this government. We will do something
:48:23. > :48:27.about it and the key is, which party can make a difference on those
:48:27. > :48:34.issues? That is what we will be doing at our conference.
:48:34. > :48:39.Ed Miliband talking this week. His big policy idea is to scrap what he
:48:39. > :48:43.calls the bedroom tax, what she would call the under occupancy
:48:43. > :48:50.charge. —— you would. Will this be a big vote in a tight marginal like
:48:50. > :48:54.show what? I do not, you need a credible financial plan. Says he
:48:54. > :49:00.will scrap that, we need to know about the funding. We have heard it
:49:00. > :49:04.all before. The only way to help families through the financial
:49:04. > :49:08.crisis and the squeeze is with a credible financial plan to generate
:49:08. > :49:11.wealth and jobs, and that is what the government are doing. We are
:49:11. > :49:15.working to make sure the economy goes in the right direction, and the
:49:15. > :49:20.rest is waffle unless you have a credible plan.
:49:20. > :49:24.40,000 claimants in the East Midlands will benefit from scrapping
:49:24. > :49:30.this, Labour claim, to around £600 each year. They will get more. That
:49:30. > :49:36.would be a vote winner, will it not? I am up for that fight and we
:49:36. > :49:40.have a great story to tell as a government. We have done the right
:49:41. > :49:44.things to turn the economy around and in terms of immigration and
:49:44. > :49:49.making life better for people who work hard and wants to get hard ——
:49:49. > :49:53.get on. I am up for the fight and excited. It is a scandalous tax and
:49:53. > :50:02.it has caused uproar, the bedroom tax. There hundred of people in
:50:02. > :50:10.Sherwood and over 400 families losing between £14 and £25 each week
:50:10. > :50:14.in one area. Some of the poorest families, with disabilities, denied
:50:14. > :50:19.that support. Most people will be cheering from the rafters. But there
:50:19. > :50:24.is a lot of support for cutting the benefits bill. For cutting where
:50:24. > :50:27.people see it as unfair but people see the bedroom tax as a non—fat
:50:27. > :50:34.burden on some of the poorest people. Why should somebody with a
:50:34. > :50:37.house to pick for them be paid more than somebody else? Because these
:50:37. > :50:42.are people with carers, caring for people with disabilities, that extra
:50:42. > :50:49.bedroom where the carer will stay sometimes, they are losing benefits.
:50:49. > :50:52.Not in every case. Two thirds of the people affected people with
:50:52. > :50:56.disabilities or the poorest families, and that is what ending
:50:56. > :50:59.this tax on some of the people in our country, I think many people
:50:59. > :51:06.will say that is the right thing to do. A lot of people in Sherwood
:51:06. > :51:09.squashed into houses that are too small, families who have got too
:51:09. > :51:15.many kids in bedrooms who cannot move because of the houses are under
:51:15. > :51:19.occupied. You have to use the asset you have got, and you have council
:51:19. > :51:24.houses which are an asset for the community, we need to use those to
:51:24. > :51:27.support that community and to spread that goodness around. The only way
:51:27. > :51:33.to do that is to move people and accommodate them. I would rather pay
:51:33. > :51:37.for that by closing tax loopholes on businesses and some of the richest
:51:37. > :51:41.people in the country, but you are making the poorest people pay for
:51:41. > :51:46.it. A lot of people in Sherwood are working hard to add a lot less than
:51:46. > :51:52.the benefits cap and it is shocking you opposed that. We do not oppose
:51:52. > :51:57.the benefits cap. I am quite prepared to go to public meetings,
:51:57. > :52:01.Mark can support the bedroom tax, I will support scrapping it, and we
:52:01. > :52:05.will see. I am sure the arguments will
:52:05. > :52:10.continue until 2015. So what is happening in the marginals? We have
:52:10. > :52:15.been to Derbyshire, where the sitting MP Nigel Mills has a
:52:15. > :52:18.majority of just over 500, to speak to party workers from both sides and
:52:18. > :52:24.to find out what you think. Ripley is in the heart of the Amber
:52:24. > :52:27.Valley and the scene is set for a heavyweight battle between Labour
:52:27. > :52:32.and Conservatives, but who is going to win? And servitors think it is
:52:32. > :52:35.the way they run the Borough Council here that gives them the knockout
:52:35. > :52:39.blow. If you look at the Borough Council
:52:39. > :52:45.record, you will find we have done a very good job. We are providing
:52:45. > :52:49.excellent services and very good value for money. And we have always
:52:49. > :52:55.got our eyes and ease —— and ears open. Wherever things can be
:52:55. > :53:00.improved, we do what we can. Are you going to go knocking on
:53:00. > :53:04.doors yourself? We always do, all Conservative
:53:04. > :53:08.members knock on doors, that is what it is about, getting close to people
:53:08. > :53:12.and knowing their problems and making sure they know what we do for
:53:12. > :53:15.them and what we intend to do in the future.
:53:15. > :53:21.Labour are hoping hard work and knocking on doors will have them big
:53:21. > :53:27.killer punch. —— the killer punch. How can you do
:53:27. > :53:30.this? Three days a week, Wednesday,
:53:30. > :53:34.Saturday and Sunday, we have to put in the work to get the results in a
:53:34. > :53:40.tight marginal seats like the Amber Valley. There is only a majority of
:53:40. > :53:44.500 and we feel getting the right message out and listening to people,
:53:44. > :53:47.people are disenchanted and we have two engage with them again and with
:53:47. > :53:53.the effort and commitment we are putting in, we can turn the seat
:53:53. > :54:00.around. Do you get help from Central? We put in as much effort as
:54:00. > :54:04.local members allow us to do. As a local party, we put in the effort we
:54:04. > :54:09.can to help the party nationally, it is local routes up words and not
:54:09. > :54:13.national party downwards. In the end, it is your votes that
:54:13. > :54:19.count, but on the streets, there is a breaking through.
:54:19. > :54:24.Governments are weak, nobody seems able to do the job. Essentially, we
:54:24. > :54:27.need to be able to think about getting out of Europe, slowing
:54:27. > :54:33.immigration down and controlling it, and nobody wants to do that. So I
:54:33. > :54:40.suspect I will vote UKIP. He would you vote for this time? —— who
:54:40. > :54:47.would. Publicly I think I might take a risk and ring Labour in ——
:54:48. > :54:53.probably. My vote is midway between Conservative and UKIP. So between
:54:53. > :54:59.now and the general election, the canvases and the politicians have
:54:59. > :55:04.got to sway my vote one way or another. It is more than a year and
:55:04. > :55:08.a half until the next general election and in the marginal
:55:08. > :55:12.constituencies of the East Midlands, Labour and Conservative are slugging
:55:12. > :55:18.it out. It looks as though they will have to fight hard for every vote.
:55:18. > :55:22.Hardly overwhelming the is —— overwhelming support for you,
:55:22. > :55:27.Vernon, a lot of people thinking of voting UKIP. But the polls from Lord
:55:27. > :55:34.Ashcroft, eight prominent Tory politician, showed a big swing to
:55:34. > :55:38.Labour in the marginal seat —— a prominent. He said some people were
:55:38. > :55:41.thinking of voting UKIP. But there was a clear swing to labour in those
:55:41. > :55:47.marginal seats across the country, including in the East Midlands.
:55:47. > :55:53.But because of the defection from the Tories to UKIP, that is why you
:55:53. > :55:57.are benefiting. But we are in front and we are doing well in those
:55:57. > :56:01.seats. What we need to do is work hard and you saw the campaigning
:56:01. > :56:04.effort going in from the candidates, everybody working hard.
:56:04. > :56:08.And when people start to think about the cost of living, the fact that
:56:08. > :56:12.prices are going up faster than wages, the impact on the
:56:12. > :56:16.consequences of what the government are doing, it is all to play for. We
:56:16. > :56:23.are working hard and campaigning hard in all the seats.
:56:23. > :56:29.Somebody in that report said that term —— on between Conservative and
:56:29. > :56:37.UKIP, is that your worst nightmare? I think only Mr Cameron Ed Miliband
:56:37. > :56:41.will get the keys to number ten. —— or Ed Miliband. That is your
:56:41. > :56:47.choice, we have to get that message across, and if you vote UKIP, E will
:56:47. > :56:52.get Ed Miliband. We have got to sell our message. —— you will get. How we
:56:52. > :56:58.have worked on immigration and welfare reform, we have a good
:56:58. > :57:02.message to get across. But there are 18 months to go. A year ago, Labour
:57:02. > :57:06.were 14 points in front and now we are neck and neck, who knows about
:57:06. > :57:10.12 months? Is the problem for both of you not
:57:10. > :57:16.that UKIP is moving public opinion towards their policies of
:57:16. > :57:20.immigration and Europe? We will make a very positive pitch and will not
:57:20. > :57:26.have a negative note of Mark. We think people have had their living
:57:26. > :57:30.standards breezed by this government and we will present an alternative
:57:30. > :57:34.and we will say, it does not have to be like this, we can create a fairer
:57:34. > :57:38.and more equal society, and that will be the positive pitch we make.
:57:38. > :57:43.It will be policies like the bedroom tax, that is why you should vote
:57:43. > :57:47.Labour. Will he be more hard line on things
:57:47. > :57:51.like immigration and Europe? —— will you be.
:57:51. > :57:56.We have to get our message across, what we have achieved. Not looking
:57:56. > :57:59.at other parties and campaigning negatively but selling our message
:57:59. > :58:04.and telling people what the government has done and the progress
:58:04. > :58:09.we have made. We will not go back but to keep going with that agenda.
:58:09. > :58:12.That is a classic sign of when you are in trouble, saying, we are not
:58:12. > :58:18.getting our message across. Well, you certainly cannot ignore it
:58:18. > :58:20.UKIP at the next election. A quick round—up now of other political
:58:20. > :58:33.stories in the East Midlands. Drivers will have to slow down
:58:33. > :58:41.outside Nottinghamshire schools after the county council voted to
:58:41. > :58:42.bring in a 20 mph speed limit. Most would—be advisory but some will be
:58:42. > :58:47.compulsory. A new factory making parts for
:58:47. > :58:51.Formula 1 and high—performance cars is to be built in Derby and will be
:58:51. > :58:56.financed by the regional growth fund. A loan of almost £5 million
:58:56. > :59:01.will help build a new factory. And Twitter rows are becoming a
:59:01. > :59:06.theme, this time it is the Derby North MP Chris Williamson, accused
:59:06. > :59:11.of comparing the Liberal Democrats to Nazi collaborators. The Labour MP
:59:11. > :59:15.has said the accusations are utterly ludicrous.
:59:15. > :59:18.It is not just our politicians power —— who are power hungry, the East
:59:18. > :59:23.Midlands has the highest energy consumption figures in the country.
:59:23. > :59:33.The top ten districts for energy use in our patch. Rutland has the higher
:59:33. > :59:38.consumption figures in the country. The top ten in the East Midlands,
:59:38. > :59:47.what is that down to? Maybe we are drinking more teeth than beer!
:59:47. > :59:50.—— Morty. It is probably something to do with demographics but it shows
:59:50. > :59:54.the importance of doing something to tackle energy problems, which
:59:54. > :59:58.everybody is suffering from, about time the government did something
:59:58. > :00:03.about that. Do something rather than just say something!
:00:03. > :00:08.Thank you very much indeed. We are told energy bills and charges will
:00:08. > :00:13.be one of the main themes of the Labour conference getting underway
:00:13. > :00:14.in Brighton. That has been the East Midlands politics, thanks to our
:00:14. > :00:20.guest. Now it is time to hand only if the ball comes to me. Bob
:00:20. > :00:33.Blackman and Sadiq Khan, thanks very much. Leafing through the papers the
:00:33. > :00:38.Blackman and Sadiq Khan, thanks very last few days has taken me back
:00:38. > :00:39.Blackman and Sadiq Khan, thanks very my youth. The halcyon days of the
:00:39. > :00:43.2000s, when the warring Blairite and Brownite tribes fought over who
:00:44. > :00:46.Brown's chief spin doctor Damian should run the Labour Party. Gordon
:00:46. > :00:48.Brown's chief spin doctor Damian McBride - McPoison, or worse, to his
:00:48. > :00:57.enemies - has published his memoirs, timed for maximum impact in the
:00:57. > :00:58.enemies - has published his memoirs, of Labour's Conference. They detail
:00:58. > :01:02.how Mr McBride briefed against colleagues, brought down Cabinet
:01:02. > :01:06.Ministers, that is - and fought tooth and nail to promote the man he
:01:06. > :01:13.called "the greatest man he ever met" - Gordon Brown. Joining us
:01:13. > :01:13.called "the greatest man he ever is Tony Blair's former Director
:01:13. > :01:20.called "the greatest man he ever Communications, Alastair Campbell.
:01:20. > :01:28.You are angry about what he has Communications, Alastair Campbell.
:01:28. > :01:35.in this book. Why is that. It is partly the fact that he has done it
:01:35. > :01:38.in a way that will be -- will be damaging to the Labour Party at
:01:38. > :01:41.in a way that will be -- will be time. But also because of the lies
:01:41. > :01:50.that he told at the time that he now communications and trying to hold
:01:50. > :01:58.the thing together, build the team. There was also Charlie Whelan and
:01:58. > :02:03.others. And that job was made more difficult than it should have been.
:02:03. > :02:07.I used to challenge Gordon Brown about it. And there came a stage
:02:07. > :02:14.where I said if Whelan does not about it. And there came a stage
:02:14. > :02:20.I will go. And when Damian McBride was on the scene I was clear that I
:02:20. > :02:26.was not going to have anything to do with him. Because of what he is
:02:26. > :02:29.was not going to have anything to do admitting to, I think they played
:02:29. > :02:34.quite a significant part in pushing Labour out of power. Because the
:02:34. > :02:40.public were being fed by them, this public were being fed by them, this
:02:40. > :02:47.narrative, the whole time. That Blair was useless, Charles Clarke
:02:47. > :02:51.was useless. And I think that we where the government and had very
:02:51. > :02:58.good ministers trying to do big things for the country. I said this
:02:58. > :03:04.morning it was like being a foot tall team were on the pitch you
:03:04. > :03:07.morning it was like being a foot your own players kicking the star
:03:07. > :03:10.players. That is why I am angry about it because I think they helped
:03:10. > :03:17.usher in a conservative government. If we had all stuck together I think
:03:17. > :03:25.did not win the last election, that is a reasonable point. But surely
:03:25. > :03:30.undermine Tony Blair and to promote their man, Gordon Brown. It is
:03:30. > :03:38.inconceivable then that Gordon Brown did not know about it. Well in spite
:03:39. > :03:42.reasonably good relationship with Gordon Brown. I used to challenge
:03:42. > :03:50.him a lot about what Whelan was doing. He would always say, I will
:03:50. > :03:57.sort it out. Another thing that annoys me is this sense put forward
:03:57. > :04:03.by the right wing media that there was this sense of equivalence.
:04:03. > :04:10.People like Steve who I have known for years, there is not a single
:04:10. > :04:14.journalist with the very occasional exception where I lost my temper,
:04:14. > :04:20.who would honestly be able to tell you that I ever breathed against
:04:20. > :04:28.ministers. That was my golden rule. People say you were the forerunner.
:04:28. > :04:41.I know it was not the case. One People say you were the forerunner.
:04:41. > :04:52.the reasons why I do despise what they did, the whole spin thing which
:04:52. > :05:02.associated with, once I wrote a actually within the government,
:05:02. > :05:03.associated with, once I wrote a had a principle of maximum openness
:05:03. > :05:08.and trust. Anyone could come to had a principle of maximum openness
:05:08. > :05:14.morning meetings on condition that what was discussed their state as
:05:14. > :05:16.part of the team. I had to say to Gordon Brown, your people are not
:05:16. > :05:22.coming. Because I knew where it Gordon Brown, your people are not
:05:22. > :05:26.coming from. Did you know that the time but Charles Clarke and others
:05:26. > :05:31.were effectively being destroyed from within the Labour government? I
:05:31. > :05:39.certainly knew that they thought that. I did know journalists telling
:05:39. > :05:50.me that that was what was happening. Ultimately, this is why I never
:05:50. > :05:57.me that that was what was happening. leaders, it is ultimately up to
:05:57. > :06:00.me that that was what was happening. litre. Possibly in a different age
:06:01. > :06:04.Gordon Brown would have been an amazing Prime Minister. He was a
:06:04. > :06:11.great chancellor. But he had a flaw, this need for truly horrible
:06:11. > :06:14.people to be around him doing truly horrible things in politics and
:06:14. > :06:18.giving him and the Labour Party horrible things in politics and
:06:18. > :06:28.politics a bad name. That is why I'm still angry about Damian McBride.
:06:28. > :06:32.What do you make of it? The current administration is a contrast. We
:06:32. > :06:38.have rival factions occupying the same offices but they still get
:06:38. > :06:41.have rival factions occupying the The only time they have a row is
:06:41. > :06:44.when something really big happens. But with that one party in Downing
:06:44. > :06:50.Street there was fighting the whole time. Did Ed Balls know about this.
:06:50. > :07:03.I would assume so. I spoke with time. Did Ed Balls know about this.
:07:03. > :07:13.about it at the time. He told me at the time that he had spoken about it
:07:13. > :07:18.with Gordon Brown. So I think there was a concern from within that camp
:07:18. > :07:28.about some of these activities at equivalence, in life you expect
:07:28. > :07:28.about some of these activities at see that there is full on both
:07:28. > :07:34.sides. But I do not buy it in this see that there is full on both
:07:34. > :07:37.case. If you look at the testimonies see that there is full on both
:07:37. > :07:42.over the years, what you can surmise about the character of Gordon Brown
:07:42. > :07:48.and of Tony Blair, it was ultimately driven by Gordon Brown and the
:07:48. > :07:52.people around him. The Blairites did things but they did then by way
:07:52. > :07:56.people around him. The Blairites did retaliation rather than initiation.
:07:56. > :08:01.The one-time when I did lose it retaliation rather than initiation.
:08:01. > :08:03.the whole psychological force thing. That came at the end of a period
:08:03. > :08:09.when we were relentlessly being That came at the end of a period
:08:09. > :08:12.in by Charlie Whelan and his gang of journalists. I would go along to
:08:12. > :08:20.colleagues would be there and I journalists. I would go along to
:08:20. > :08:25.had to sit there and not hit back. Saying I cannot believe Gordon Brown
:08:25. > :08:28.would have anything to do with this. You get to the stage where your
:08:28. > :08:29.would have anything to do with this. credibility is on the line. Coming
:08:29. > :08:40.promotion of alcohol awareness. credibility is on the line. Coming
:08:40. > :08:43.before that the Labour Party, you never had to deal with this in
:08:43. > :08:48.opposition because you were pretty far ahead in the polls by midterm.
:08:48. > :08:56.This time that is not the case. far ahead in the polls by midterm.
:08:56. > :09:04.is surprisingly narrow. What advice would you give to Ed Miliband? To
:09:04. > :09:09.keep his head out side of this bubble but it's all about him. And
:09:09. > :09:16.to use this week to really speak to the British people about himself,
:09:16. > :09:23.particularly the kind of policy agenda he is shaping for the future.
:09:23. > :09:28.And start to heart -- start to hit the Tories hard. They're not pop,
:09:28. > :09:34.they're not competent. They're screwing up the health service.
:09:34. > :09:36.they're not competent. They're yet they are neck and neck. I would
:09:36. > :09:42.say that the whole Shadow Cabinet understand that you win elections by
:09:42. > :09:50.wanting to win elections every minute of every day. There is too
:09:50. > :09:55.much complacency. A small lead now you have to grow that. You do that
:09:55. > :10:04.with energy and conviction and policy. Tony Blair had a huge pole
:10:04. > :10:11.bead in the run-up to 1997. We were winning seat where we had not even
:10:11. > :10:13.campaigned and he was saying, why celebrate because we have not won
:10:13. > :10:17.yet. You are promoting your alcohol celebrate because we have not won
:10:17. > :10:19.yet. You are promoting your alcohol awareness campaign. Perhaps the
:10:19. > :10:28.party conference is not the best place to do that! That is one reason
:10:28. > :10:34.why I am doing that. I'm hosting probably the only alcohol free
:10:34. > :10:41.reception of the week! There is nothing worse than a convert, I
:10:41. > :10:47.reception of the week! There is that. But I travel a lot. I travel
:10:47. > :10:56.around the world and Britain has a something we should be ashamed of.
:10:56. > :11:03.Why is that, is it cultural? I think it is historical. But I dig David
:11:03. > :11:16.Cameron was right to go for minimum unit pricing and wrong to do a
:11:16. > :11:19.reversal. 6% of alcoholics get treatment. I expect that drugs are a
:11:19. > :11:26.problem but we spent £2 billion treatment. I expect that drugs are a
:11:26. > :11:28.100,000 problem drug takers and treatment. I expect that drugs are a
:11:28. > :11:41.million on 1.6 million problem have written this book about a young
:11:41. > :11:45.million on 1.6 million problem alcoholic, a teenager. And it is in
:11:45. > :11:48.the first person. People could think you are writing about yourself.
:11:48. > :11:55.did you choose a teenage girl? Well did you choose a teenage girl? Well
:11:55. > :12:06.partly, I dedicated this to the Southampton. He told me when he
:12:06. > :12:13.started his career that his patience was split nine to one, men to women
:12:13. > :12:21.and it is now 50 - 50. They're getting younger and younger. One
:12:21. > :12:27.doctor looking after me said I will take you around this hospital and
:12:27. > :12:33.the problems of alcohol are in every single ward. Not just accident and
:12:33. > :12:41.emergency. I watched the foot all, advertisements for gambling and
:12:41. > :12:51.advertising. How have we allowed this to happen, ? We are just awash
:12:51. > :12:58.with it. What we did I think on Availability and price either too
:12:59. > :13:05.means by which you can bring this down. And the country that has had
:13:05. > :13:17.the biggest success on this is Russia, bizarrely. Thank you very
:13:17. > :13:22.much for that. That's all for today. Thanks to all our guests. I'll be
:13:22. > :13:25.with live coverage of Labour Party Conference, including the speech
:13:25. > :13:27.from the man who wants to be the next Chancellor, Ed Balls. Remember