:00:37. > :00:46.Morning, welcome to the veritable pot pourri that is this morning's
:00:46. > :00:52.Sunday Politics. We have Alastair Charmichael. We'll ask him what he
:00:52. > :00:56.has that his predecessor Michael Moore hadn't. Ken Clarke just keeps
:00:56. > :01:03.going on and on and on. He'll bang his drum for Europe.
:01:03. > :01:06.Free of the shackles of Government, former Energy Secretary Chris Huhne
:01:06. > :01:08.will be with us. We'll ask him for the inside scoop.
:01:08. > :01:13.And in the East Midlands, in Black Diane
:01:13. > :01:16.And in the East Midlands, in Black History Month we look at the
:01:16. > :01:19.community that feels let down by politicians. And we've got the local
:01:19. > :01:21.winners and losers in the reshuffles.
:01:21. > :01:30.says we've misunderstood the problem of human trafficking and that men
:01:30. > :01:35.are the forgotten victims. And
:01:35. > :01:38.are the forgotten victims. pundits who we try to shuffle out of
:01:38. > :01:44.a job but failed miserably, Mick watt, Miranda Green Andijan an
:01:44. > :01:56.Ganesh. They'll Tweet like mad as if Is Ed Miliband's Labour Party moving
:01:56. > :02:01.chid owe Cabinet reshuffle was seen a a shift to the lot of. Two have
:02:01. > :02:09.announced policy changes which could Pensions Secretary Rachel Reeves
:02:09. > :02:14.says Labour will be tougher on the Tories. While Tristram Hunt says
:02:14. > :02:23.Labour loves Tory-style free schools after all. Here he is on the BBC
:02:23. > :02:26.viewers. If you are a group of parents, social entrepreneurs,
:02:26. > :02:28.viewers. If you are a group of teachers, interested in setting
:02:28. > :02:31.viewers. If you are a group of school in areas where you need new
:02:31. > :02:33.school place, the Labour Government will be on your side. That's free
:02:33. > :02:40.enterprise and innovation. It will will be on your side. That's free
:02:40. > :02:45.be in areas of need. We have a school places crisis going on. It
:02:46. > :02:59.teachers in these schools. And accountability. What is going on
:02:59. > :03:07.with the Al Madina school is because of terrible mistakes with Michael
:03:07. > :03:10.changed, the change of tone is I'm not sure if the policies have
:03:10. > :03:12.changed, the change of tone is remarkable, both on welfare and
:03:12. > :03:16.changed, the change of tone is schools. A significant change of
:03:16. > :03:23.reshuffle on the Labour frontbench last week was init wered as a purge
:03:23. > :03:31.of Blair rights. It seemed to be a purge of anti-reform thinking.
:03:31. > :03:35.Rachel Reeves was not saying anythi different on substance but saying
:03:35. > :03:41.Labour will be tough than the Tories on welfare. You've seen that clip
:03:41. > :03:47.from Tristram, free schools will be allowed to be set up in areas of
:03:47. > :03:51.need. Greater oversight. But a completely different change of tone,
:03:51. > :03:57.we are on the side of parents and social entrepreneurs who want to set
:03:58. > :04:06.these up. A different change. Why are they doing this? On education,
:04:06. > :04:11.polarised. You've had the Michael department. This weekend, we've
:04:11. > :04:13.polarised. You've had the Michael leaked memos from one of Michael
:04:14. > :04:18.Gove's advisers which are extreme views about the state of education.
:04:18. > :04:24.And on the other side teaching unions. It hasn't led to a healthy
:04:25. > :04:29.debate which represents what parents want out of schools or employers.
:04:29. > :04:33.This is a huge move from the Labour Party to sound more reasonable.
:04:33. > :04:37.This is a huge move from the Labour have been silent on education which
:04:37. > :04:45.is a huge policy area on the left. Is this a focus group-driven change?
:04:45. > :04:55.They've seen the polls. Welfare reforms are hugery popular and free
:04:55. > :05:00.changing the policy substantially. I always thought a test for this
:05:00. > :05:04.Labour reshuffle was not whether Ed Miliband would promote Blair rights,
:05:04. > :05:09.it is clear he did, it is whether they would be allowed to be Blair
:05:09. > :05:14.rights. When Stephen Twigg carried the education portfolio it was clear
:05:14. > :05:18.his own views were closer to the Government than he was allowed to
:05:18. > :05:22.let on. He was constrained. There is no point of giving Tristram Hunt
:05:22. > :05:26.this job if he is not allowed to say what he thinks. I wouldn't mind
:05:26. > :05:32.betting privately he thinks free schools should be available beyond
:05:32. > :05:40.just areas of need. He hasn't yet defined need. It could be, we've run
:05:40. > :05:49.schools are so bad we need schools. If that is it, it is the same Asics
:05:49. > :05:58.itsing Government policy. In they unsatisfactory that's no different.
:05:59. > :06:01.He wanted to say he was in favour of higher educational standards and
:06:01. > :06:07.rigour, he had to tell the audience he has a Cambridge PhD to attack
:06:07. > :06:12.Michael Gove. That was difficult for Tristram Hunt he had to mention
:06:12. > :06:22.that. Is that worth something, a PhD from Cambridge? Obviously to him it
:06:22. > :06:29.is. He said they would demand proper teaching qualifications. That could
:06:29. > :06:35.teaching? Independent schools do not have to have teachers with formal
:06:35. > :06:41.teaching qualifications. I've never been to one? What about you? That
:06:41. > :06:49.decision by Michael Gove to allow free schools to employ nonunionised
:06:49. > :06:56.and non-trained people, so he has to Watch this space. The dust settled
:06:56. > :07:03.after the party resufficients. Do the Tories look a bit more like
:07:03. > :07:13.Britain. Do the Tories look more #4 With reshuffles, you're never
:07:13. > :07:17.really certain. There's whispers, rumours, guesses. But the only way
:07:17. > :07:24.to know it is underway is keeping beady eyes on a front door. Up until
:07:24. > :07:27.now, the only way we knew who was in and who was out was who came walking
:07:27. > :07:31.down this bit of Downing Street and who was out was who came walking
:07:31. > :07:35.a smile on their face after going to see the boss. The once who are to be
:07:35. > :07:42.sacked, they usually go round the back. Not this time. No, something
:07:42. > :07:49.new alerted us all. The-PM started can't remember a triple decker
:07:49. > :07:55.reshuffle where you've three parties changing ministerial teams at the
:07:55. > :07:59.resufficient happened on Twitter. Not that the press stopped watching
:07:59. > :08:08.the door as well. News was a bit Charmichael replaced Michael Moore,
:08:08. > :08:12.the first to be pounced on. I'm disappointed to be leaving office
:08:12. > :08:17.now but pleased at what I've been able to achieve in the last couple
:08:17. > :08:20.of years. Not as pleased as one imagines as the man receiving the
:08:20. > :08:38.welcome that went on, and on and simultaneously having Jeremy Browne,
:08:38. > :08:48.in a sense seen off the premises of the Home Office in conspiracy to let
:08:48. > :09:00.# Blowing hi Jude through a traffic Democrats. We tend to think they are
:09:00. > :09:04.herbivorous. Sacking a Cabinet Minister, another minister, Jeremy
:09:04. > :09:08.Browne. By lunch time, the Tory ranks were shifting too. The PM
:09:08. > :09:10.Browne. By lunch time, the Tory to boost the numbers of telegenic
:09:10. > :09:14.women walking into Government and turning perceptions around. He
:09:14. > :09:21.tipped a so-called flatcap to men backgrounds with room for some which
:09:22. > :09:23.fitted neither label but are friends of George Osborne. And, all the
:09:23. > :09:30.while, those new Tory ministers of George Osborne. And, all the
:09:30. > :09:34.learning of Labour's changes. Labour too knows the value of new young
:09:34. > :09:41.blood striding into the limelight. Again some with TV experience of
:09:41. > :09:42.that. Tristram Hunt and Gloria de peer row would be hard to describe
:09:42. > :09:47.as hard left. But Blairbrushing peer row would be hard to describe
:09:47. > :09:55.past out of the picture seemed to be the name of the day. Liam Byrne
:09:55. > :09:59.With Diane Abbott also gone, was this really a Blair right cull? It
:09:59. > :10:03.depends what you mean. Blair right used to mean someone who wanted
:10:03. > :10:05.depends what you mean. Blair right Blair to be leader of the Labour
:10:05. > :10:07.Party. Somebody who worked closely with him. Now it means sometimes
:10:07. > :10:11.people who believe in a certain with him. Now it means sometimes
:10:11. > :10:14.of ideologyies or ideas. There are still very much those kind of Blair
:10:14. > :10:17.rights within the party. But we still very much those kind of Blair
:10:17. > :10:24.seeing the group around Tony Blair are not long assassin flew enjoys as
:10:24. > :10:31.they once were. By evening, it was over. New bees were sharing the
:10:31. > :10:45.ministers quietly thanked commits raters. Or -- commiserators. Or
:10:45. > :10:47.ministers quietly thanked commits disified. How much much someone
:10:47. > :10:54.standing here might want it to be the case, you are unlikely to get
:10:54. > :11:01.someone coming out of that do going "how could." And running off crying!
:11:01. > :11:08.And the brand, spanking new Scottish Secretary Alastair Charmichael joins
:11:08. > :11:15.us from Orkney on a line that hasn't been used since the fleet was used
:11:15. > :11:17.in the outbreak of World War I! I wasn't around at the time. I'm
:11:17. > :11:20.hearing you loud and clear. Why wasn't around at the time. I'm
:11:20. > :11:25.you agreed to run a department? wasn't around at the time. I'm
:11:25. > :11:30.you wanted to abolish six years wasn't around at the time. I'm
:11:30. > :11:36.Hello? Maybe our connections are not Charmichael. Can you hear me? I
:11:36. > :11:39.Hello? Maybe our connections are not hear you now. There was a nasty
:11:39. > :11:43.second there where you disappeared. Let me try the question again. Why
:11:43. > :11:49.have you agreed to run a department you wanted to abolish six years
:11:49. > :11:51.have you agreed to run a department Because this is the, probably one of
:11:51. > :11:57.the most important jobs in British politics at the moment. To ensure
:11:57. > :12:03.that Scotland remains part of the UK. Even when I was talking about
:12:03. > :12:07.the reconfiguration of rep sen Taigs of Scotland -- representation of
:12:07. > :12:12.Scotland within Whitehall, there was always a job to be done. That is
:12:12. > :12:14.true in spades now. I will focus on making sure the UK Government has a
:12:14. > :12:18.real voice in that debate. What making sure the UK Government has a
:12:18. > :12:23.you that Michael Moore didn't have? Look, I think Michael Moore did
:12:23. > :12:25.you that Michael Moore didn't have? excellent job. The work he did
:12:25. > :12:35.delivering the Edinburgh agreement clear legal and decisive referendum,
:12:35. > :12:39.the work delivering extra powers to substantial piece of work. I'm not
:12:40. > :12:47.friend of mine. I will say that substantial piece of work. I'm not
:12:47. > :12:51.we go forward into this, this is now about the actual debate itself.
:12:51. > :12:55.we go forward into this, this is now will be putting the case, with some
:12:55. > :13:03.passion, I hope, for Scotland to just some abstract debate about
:13:03. > :13:10.nationhood, sovereignty, this is a their livelihoods, the cost of their
:13:10. > :13:20.mortgage. That and an awful lot challenge. I understand that. But if
:13:20. > :13:27.you're being put in there to save the union, every pole has the no --
:13:27. > :13:32.poll has the no campaign margin alley ahead. Mr Moore was doing
:13:32. > :13:34.pretty well to save the union. I suspect you've been given the job to
:13:34. > :13:42.Scotland? And lieu, you misread suspect you've been given the job to
:13:42. > :13:46.situation if you -- Andrew, you misread the situation new think
:13:46. > :13:50.anybody is going to be the person who will save the union. The people
:13:50. > :13:53.who will save the union are the people of Scotland if they turn
:13:53. > :13:55.who will save the union are the next year and vote to save the
:13:55. > :14:01.union. We have to put the case for that. That is what I will be doing.
:14:01. > :14:06.Look at the position of your own party. You came fourth in the last
:14:06. > :14:13.Scottish parentry elections. You were even behind the Conservatives.
:14:13. > :14:21.The latest poll has you still in fourth. Are you there because you're
:14:21. > :14:24.a bruiser and you will pep up the Liberal Democrats opportunity in
:14:25. > :14:29.Scotland. If I had a pound for everybody to referred to me as being
:14:29. > :14:29.Scotland. If I had a pound for a bruiser, I wouldn't need to be
:14:29. > :14:33.sitting here this morning. I could a bruiser, I wouldn't need to be
:14:33. > :14:38.have retired by now. The truth of this, if I can address it once and
:14:38. > :14:44.for all, I have done probably one of the most complex and subtle jobs in
:14:44. > :14:50.three-and-a-half years, Liberal Democrat Chief Whip in a Coalition
:14:50. > :14:53.survived in that job a week, let alone three-and-a-half years, if I
:14:53. > :14:59.was the sort of person who went around picking unnecessary fights.
:14:59. > :15:03.So, can we just please forget about this business about being a bruiser.
:15:03. > :15:07.As far as the position of the party in the polls, this is true also
:15:07. > :15:10.As far as the position of the party the referendum vote, opinion polls
:15:10. > :15:13.are a snapshot. They are not a prediction of what will happen in
:15:13. > :15:19.the future. I will be out there putting the case. Neither the next
:15:19. > :15:24.election nor the referendum is one or lost yet. One of the things I
:15:24. > :15:31.really want to be guarding against because we are a good margin ahead
:15:31. > :15:39.today, 12 months out from the actual polling day, that it is in the bag.
:15:39. > :15:42.Believe me, Andrew, it is not. As you know, wasn't for the Liberal
:15:42. > :15:52.Democrats. Not just talking about the polls. You came fourth in the
:15:52. > :16:02.You said you were happy to facial ex-Salmond in a TV debade. Should
:16:02. > :16:14.David Cameron face him? I am happy debate. Should David Cameron face
:16:14. > :16:18.him? No, because that allows Alex Nationalists to portray this as
:16:18. > :16:22.him? No, because that allows Alex sort of contest or choice between a
:16:22. > :16:24.vision of Scottish social democracy and English conservativism, which it
:16:24. > :16:29.is not. This is a debate that has to is not. This is a debate that has to
:16:29. > :16:37.be held in Scotland about the future of Scotland amongst Scots. David
:16:37. > :16:42.Cameron has a very important part in Scotland's public life, but he is
:16:42. > :16:47.not Scottish and I think he will accept Commies edit himself in fact,
:16:47. > :16:56.the person who should be debating Darling. He has got a Scottish name
:16:56. > :17:07.wealthiest of Scotland at some stage the campaign to keep the union
:17:07. > :17:16.together as lacking passion, were you referring to the campaign or
:17:16. > :17:23.referring to Alistair Darling. I think what I was saying is that
:17:23. > :17:29.referring to Alistair Darling. I we move into this new stage, and
:17:29. > :17:32.Alistair Darling said it himself, we are now campaigning for people
:17:32. > :17:36.Alistair Darling said it himself, we hearts because if you look at the
:17:37. > :17:42.range of papers the Government has published, it is pretty clear the
:17:42. > :17:53.arguments lie in relation to the head. I am not giving up the battle
:17:53. > :17:57.for the hearts and Scotland because there is a good strong case, as
:17:57. > :18:02.somebody who is proud to be Scottish and to be British, for Scotland
:18:02. > :18:08.somebody who is proud to be Scottish remain part of the UK. You come
:18:08. > :18:14.somebody who is proud to be Scottish distilleries and I understand you
:18:14. > :18:20.celebratory drink for your new post. Not a drop has touched my lips.
:18:20. > :18:21.celebratory drink for your new post. supporting local business! I will be
:18:21. > :18:26.making up for lost time on the supporting local business! I will be
:18:26. > :18:28.of November, I will be doing it supporting local business! I will be
:18:28. > :18:35.aid of Macmillan Cancer care and if website, they can donate. It is
:18:35. > :18:38.worthwhile. I cannot think of a better cause. One Cabinet minister
:18:39. > :18:50.who many thought might get Reef better cause. One Cabinet minister
:18:50. > :18:53.Clarke. Welcome to Sunday Politics. This reshuffle was about new blood,
:18:53. > :19:02.minorities, where did you fit in? I minorities, where did you fit in? I
:19:02. > :19:08.would describe myself as the elder statesman, to be polite, but it
:19:08. > :19:10.would describe myself as the elder difficult to replace them. I enjoy
:19:10. > :19:13.it. It is a great privilege to have a role in Cabinet and I will carry
:19:13. > :19:18.on as long as David wants me to a role in Cabinet and I will carry
:19:18. > :19:26.I have seen many reshuffles, they are dreadful and I seem to have
:19:26. > :19:37.Cameron talk to you before this have had expected a phone call,
:19:37. > :19:47.asking, how do you think about stepping down, but he didn't and my
:19:47. > :19:51.role is one of giving my wit and wisdom to the Cabinet and meetings
:19:51. > :19:56.of the Security Council so he has got to put up with me a bit longer.
:19:56. > :20:02.You said you are going to stand again at the next election, why
:20:02. > :20:05.You said you are going to stand you keep going? What do you hope to
:20:05. > :20:10.achieve in politics? I am mostly a political anorak, I have been since
:20:10. > :20:16.I was very small, by the process of politics but the older I get I get
:20:16. > :20:20.governance of the country and at the moment the combination of problems
:20:20. > :20:24.is quite appalling. The difficulty of tackling the modern world is
:20:25. > :20:28.is quite appalling. The difficulty difficult and I find it fascinating.
:20:28. > :20:29.The old argument that attracts every decent person into politics, you
:20:29. > :20:34.might be able sometimes to make decent person into politics, you
:20:34. > :20:37.bit of difference, and I try to decent person into politics, you
:20:37. > :20:39.that. I try not to hark back on decent person into politics, you
:20:39. > :20:43.experience but we will have a lot of tough problems which I think the
:20:43. > :20:50.Conservative Government will have to tackle. You opposed referenda on
:20:50. > :20:56.Maastricht, the Lisbon Treaty, you were even against one on Britain
:20:56. > :21:03.adopting the euro. It must follow that you are against the referenda
:21:03. > :21:12.on Britain's membership to the EU? I accountable to the long-term and
:21:12. > :21:18.representatives, but this is a minority now and my colleagues have
:21:18. > :21:23.firmly decided a referendum needs to be held to settle the question of
:21:23. > :21:27.Britain's relationship with the European Union which I think is
:21:27. > :21:31.Britain's relationship with the of the most important things in
:21:31. > :21:37.Britain's place in the modern world politicians are able to look after
:21:37. > :21:44.the living standards, the economy, the safety against terrorism. Last
:21:44. > :21:48.the living standards, the economy, summer you said that only extreme
:21:48. > :21:57.nationalists wanted a silly EU referendum. It follows your party
:21:57. > :22:02.nationalists. The people who are desperate to have a referendum are
:22:02. > :22:08.all the people who actually want to referendum will involve the public
:22:08. > :22:11.and people like me have got to get across to the public, don't just
:22:11. > :22:16.feel angry about the last thing across to the public, don't just
:22:16. > :22:21.commission is or is not doing, do commission is or is not doing, do
:22:21. > :22:28.bear in mind this is our base in the modern world. We happen to be a
:22:28. > :22:35.leading member, almost as valuable and rich as the Americans, from
:22:35. > :22:40.influence in events. That is not just how the politicians get on
:22:40. > :22:47.influence in events. That is not politicians look after us when we
:22:47. > :22:51.spilling over from the Middle East, or we face public services being
:22:51. > :22:59.threatened. You didn't even turn up to vote for the bill which will
:23:00. > :23:03.threatened. You didn't even turn up engagements on the Friday concerned.
:23:03. > :23:06.It seemed to get through without my participation. You didn't want to be
:23:06. > :23:16.seen voting for something your heart Look, many of your colleagues I
:23:16. > :23:23.seen voting for something your heart interviewed say that if the choice
:23:23. > :23:28.was between the state -- the status quo with the European Union and
:23:28. > :23:32.leaving, they would leave. The truth is that you would vote to stay in
:23:32. > :23:40.even on the status quo, wouldn't supporting the EU to leave now if I
:23:40. > :23:45.got chance. I think our economy supporting the EU to leave now if I
:23:45. > :23:54.investment, as in Washington last been if we were outside the EU.
:23:54. > :24:01.investment, as in Washington last week. We are trying to roll forward
:24:01. > :24:04.the prospect of free trade and I have to reassure Americans that
:24:04. > :24:09.the prospect of free trade and I are not likely to leave the EU to
:24:09. > :24:14.That is true but it also needs reform. The cry for reform, which is
:24:14. > :24:22.particularly Germany, is a good reform. The cry for reform, which is
:24:22. > :24:24.Even if David Cameron came back reform. The cry for reform, which is
:24:24. > :24:33.nothing from Brussels, you would still vote to stay in, correct?
:24:33. > :24:39.one which is dwindling in comparison with others, in the modern world it
:24:39. > :24:43.would be dangerous. I also think the dangers of the Middle East and the
:24:43. > :24:53.dangers of some of the countries disengage. I will take that as a
:24:53. > :25:00.strengthen the case, and of some members of the public don't agree
:25:00. > :25:06.persuaded when David delivers his reforms. The latest poll gives
:25:06. > :25:10.Labour a ten point lead over the Tories and the reason why it has a
:25:10. > :25:14.ten point lead is because UKIP are up there with 18% of the vote and
:25:14. > :25:19.ten point lead is because UKIP are the Tory vote has slumped in the
:25:19. > :25:25.Paul to 27%. How would you see off UKIP? By saying you need a strong
:25:25. > :25:30.Paul to 27%. How would you see off and effective Government. We faced
:25:30. > :25:35.terrible problems. Every Government I have been in has been behind in
:25:35. > :25:40.the polls. This Government is not as popular as the previous Government I
:25:40. > :25:42.have served in under the three previous prime ministers. When you
:25:42. > :25:45.get an election, people have to previous prime ministers. When you
:25:45. > :25:52.themselves who do we want to decide the issues of war and peace in this
:25:52. > :25:58.country? Who do we want to get us out of our economic problems. I
:25:58. > :26:03.don't think Ed Miliband is up to it. That generalised stuff will not
:26:03. > :26:07.don't think Ed Miliband is up to it. off UKIP. People will not listen to
:26:07. > :26:11.that. When people answer an opinion poll, they tell you how annoyed
:26:11. > :26:16.that. When people answer an opinion are by something that has recently
:26:16. > :26:20.upset them, but people are more sensible than this. Every Government
:26:20. > :26:27.I have served in has been behind in the polls. At a general election you
:26:27. > :26:36.have to mobilise the public to start thinking, who do we want to govern
:26:36. > :26:44.us? They did take over a calamitous important problems to be decided
:26:44. > :26:48.going forward. UKIP represents anti-immigration, anti-foreigners,
:26:48. > :26:51.anti-Europe, anti-politics but I don't think it will get 18% of the
:26:51. > :27:25.Thank you. Once upon a time, a politician whose career ended in
:27:25. > :27:28.disgrace might choose to lie low for a while, perhaps to spend a bit
:27:28. > :27:30.disgrace might choose to lie low for time tending the tulips and doing
:27:30. > :27:31.the odd bit of charity work. Not Chris Huhne. He walked free from
:27:31. > :27:34.prison only five months ago but Chris Huhne. He walked free from
:27:34. > :27:38.former Energy Secretary is already back in the public eye - a column in
:27:38. > :27:42.the Guardian, a job with a renewable interview. So is he working on a
:27:42. > :27:46.political rehabilitation? Chris Politics. The answer to that is
:27:46. > :27:49.clearly know, and thank you for inviting me back. You have set your
:27:49. > :27:54.career in politics is over so what does the future hold for you? I
:27:54. > :27:57.career in politics is over so what happy doing what I am doing, I am
:27:57. > :28:02.passionate about green energy and climate change, so I am doing things
:28:02. > :28:08.on that front in terms of business non-governmental organisations,
:28:08. > :28:08.on that front in terms of business I am doing a column for the Guardian
:28:08. > :28:13.on Mondays. You obviously get a I am doing a column for the Guardian
:28:13. > :28:20.of material from the Sunday Politics to write about. Have you embarked on
:28:20. > :28:24.political rehabilitation? It was clear from the point of view of
:28:24. > :28:28.political rehabilitation? It was George when I was sentenced, he
:28:28. > :28:32.rehabilitating you, because I had not offended for ten years, it was
:28:32. > :28:38.actually about stopping people like you, Andrew, Ron doing the same
:28:38. > :28:44.thing. It was a deterrent effect for the public. That is I think why
:28:44. > :28:46.thing. It was a deterrent effect for prosecution was brought. I had not
:28:46. > :29:17.offended for ten years on this, rehabilitate yourself in the public?
:29:17. > :29:22.coalition to the bitter end? Or should they re-establish their own
:29:23. > :29:29.Coalition agreement is for the whole Parliament, and the Lib Dems are
:29:29. > :29:32.going to stay, and should stay. What would be a good result for the Lib
:29:32. > :29:40.Dems in 2015? The loss of ten, would be a good result for the Lib
:29:40. > :29:45.interesting election because I think you will have essentially three
:29:45. > :29:54.party leaders, all of whom are negative ratings so it will be a
:29:54. > :30:00.battle between the walking wounded. In those circumstances, in my view,
:30:00. > :30:11.the Lib Dems can come out very well. But you will lose seats, won't
:30:11. > :30:16.the Liberal Democrats do badly in next year's European elections,
:30:16. > :30:20.the Liberal Democrats do badly in could come fourth on fifth behind
:30:20. > :30:25.the Greens. Will Nick Clegg's leadership be in jeopardy? I've been
:30:25. > :30:32.in countless cycles where we've had very low poll ratings. The normal
:30:32. > :30:37.pickup to the subsequent general election on average has been 10
:30:37. > :30:41.percentage points. So he's not in jeopardy? I think Nick will be there
:30:41. > :30:44.at the next general election. I think he'll lead the party into the
:30:44. > :30:51.next general election. I expect we'll do much better than most
:30:51. > :30:53.people think. If we are heading for another hung Parliament, which is
:30:53. > :30:58.what the Liberal Democrats want. Let's be honest, you'd rather be in
:30:58. > :31:02.coalition with the Labour Party than have a repeat of the Conservatives?
:31:02. > :31:07.One of the key things I sawed to colleagues, whatever your personal
:31:07. > :31:12.preference, I used to be a Labour Party member, you can derive from
:31:12. > :31:18.that I'm on the left of centre of the party. I always said to my
:31:18. > :31:19.colleagues in the party, it is absolutely
:31:19. > :31:22.colleagues in the party, it is the we are in politics because we
:31:22. > :31:25.are Liberal Democrats, not because we are either Conservatives or
:31:25. > :31:31.second best Labour. If you don't take that view, you don't have any
:31:31. > :31:34.bargaining position when it comes to coalition. You have to be able,
:31:34. > :31:37.bargaining position when it comes to genuinely, to do a coalition with
:31:37. > :31:41.either of the other parties. I understand that, but you'd prefer
:31:41. > :31:45.Labour? Your personal preference really should not come into this. It
:31:45. > :31:50.is about making sure you get the best possible deal for the things
:31:50. > :31:55.that your voters have voted for. If you get that with one party rather
:31:55. > :31:59.than another, that's fine. You stand up for Liberal Democrat values, not
:31:59. > :32:04.for Conservative or Labour second best values. You said you're keeping
:32:04. > :32:11.up your interest in energy matters. Is Ed Miliband right to promise a
:32:11. > :32:17.temporary price freeze? There's been pop ewe louse posturing. It is not a
:32:17. > :32:22.sensible policy. It was tried in California in 2,000 and 2001 which
:32:22. > :32:27.led to blackouts. We had the Prime Minister promising we should sift
:32:27. > :32:31.everybody automatically to the lowest possible tariff. So
:32:31. > :32:37.unfortunately we're at the stage in the political cycle where we are
:32:37. > :32:42.getting clap trap. You're against the freeze? It is a bad idea when we
:32:42. > :32:46.are trying to encourage investment. When the market can give us some of
:32:46. > :32:50.the lowest gas and electricity prices in Europe. Britain has
:32:50. > :32:53.son-in-law of the lowest? Not our base price? The other European Ian
:32:53. > :32:58.prices are only higher because they put a lot more taxes on to it? Our
:32:58. > :33:03.base energy prices are among the highest in Europe? No, if you look
:33:03. > :33:05.at EU comparisons in what goes out to people's households. That's after
:33:05. > :33:10.all the taxes have been put on them? to people's households. That's after
:33:10. > :33:13.. The Conservatives are claiming there are
:33:13. > :58:12.and these tactics were plain wrong. That is all we have time for. Back
:58:12. > :58:22.to Andrew. That is all we have time for. Back
:58:22. > :58:26.ministerial team this week with That is all we have time for. Back
:58:26. > :58:30.commentators calling it the purge of the Blairites, but one poor lamb who
:58:31. > :58:36.fell victim to this perch was Diane Abbott, not somebody who worshipped
:58:36. > :58:40.at the altar of Tony Blair. Life on the backbenches means she can pursue
:58:40. > :58:47.other interests such as attending the Cheltenham literary Festival,
:58:47. > :58:51.and where she joins us now. Welcome. Why did Ed Miliband fire you? He
:58:51. > :58:58.think the thing that did it for Why did Ed Miliband fire you? He
:58:58. > :59:04.was me coming out on Syria. This was Why did Ed Miliband fire you? He
:59:04. > :59:09.a purge of the Blairites, how did you become collateral damage? I
:59:09. > :59:11.a purge of the Blairites, how did no idea but the fact that I was
:59:11. > :59:14.a purge of the Blairites, how did one member of the front bench to go
:59:14. > :59:21.public about my concerns on Syria probably tipped my enemies in the
:59:21. > :59:25.party machinery over the edge. But he went your way on Syria, in the
:59:25. > :59:32.end he agreed with your line on Syria so why would that be for
:59:32. > :59:36.dismissal? I agree with you - you're fired. Because I actually spoke
:59:36. > :59:39.dismissal? I agree with you - you're and it was the fact that I spoke up,
:59:39. > :59:48.which was like a pebble falling and it was the fact that I spoke up,
:59:48. > :59:55.forest or something. I am glad I spoke up on Syria. He doesn't like
:59:55. > :00:11.people around them than who are outspoken, who speak their minds? I
:00:11. > :00:14.think he's convinced he needs people who read from the scripts. People
:00:14. > :00:20.increasingly upset that even though who read from the scripts. People
:00:20. > :00:27.I was speaking party policy, I was reading from the script. Since Mr
:00:27. > :00:33.Miliband bid you farewell, you've said he's doing his best. Is his
:00:33. > :00:38.best good enough? I am sure it will be. I've always said the Labour
:00:38. > :00:43.Party chose the right Miliband. be. I've always said the Labour
:00:43. > :00:49.will remain loyal to him on the backbenches. You're going to be
:00:49. > :00:54.loyal? However, I want to join in the debate. You're going to be
:00:54. > :00:58.loyal? Absolutely. I was loyal both in public and private when others
:00:58. > :01:04.were bitching about him behind the from the backbenches, I hope to
:01:04. > :01:07.were bitching about him behind the involved in the debate particularly
:01:07. > :01:11.around nick policy. Et's see how loyal you are. You must be happy
:01:11. > :01:19.with all this new tough talk on welfare and free schools? Well,
:01:19. > :01:23.with all this new tough talk on think both Rachel and Tristram are
:01:23. > :01:27.very talented. We're going to have to see how this all plays out. The
:01:28. > :01:32.issue of free schools, they are to see how this all plays out. The
:01:32. > :01:34.thing. But diminishing the role to see how this all plays out. The
:01:34. > :01:42.local authorities is another. There need strong local authorities. I'm
:01:42. > :01:44.local authorities is another. There sure Tristram will be aware of that.
:01:44. > :01:49.As for welfare, I'm sure Rachel knows some of the cuts the Tories
:01:50. > :01:55.have made have been counter prod ublingtive in -- productive in terms
:01:55. > :01:57.of spending. You wouldn't call that your full-hearted endorsement, would
:01:57. > :02:05.you? What are you on, and lieu? your full-hearted endorsement, would
:02:05. > :02:10.haven't seen the detail of Rachel's new position. You have to wait and
:02:10. > :02:14.see the detail. It is in the papers. You haven't stopped reading the
:02:14. > :02:20.papers. It was the Observer. When will you announce you're running for
:02:20. > :02:25.Mayor of London? I have no plans to announce that I'm running for Mayor
:02:25. > :02:25.Mayor of London? I have no plans to of London. No plans. That's what
:02:25. > :02:29.Michael his I will Tyne used to of London. No plans. That's what
:02:29. > :02:34.me. He had no plans to run against Margaret Thatcher. Are these the
:02:34. > :02:41.same kind of plans you have? I know. No, no. I have no plans. You know
:02:41. > :02:51.going for it. Everybody knows you're going for it. Just fess up to your
:02:51. > :02:57.old mate! ! I have no plans to run. If you did run, who would be, what
:02:57. > :03:06.would be your biggest threat other than yourself? I think there's a lot
:03:06. > :03:15.of very talented candidates, David They are all talented. I would have
:03:15. > :03:19.to weigh up the field. What do you think your chances would be of
:03:20. > :03:27.getting the taxi drivers' vote? Well, you know, Andrew, some of
:03:27. > :03:31.getting the taxi drivers' vote? most loyal viewers of This Week
:03:31. > :03:34.getting the taxi drivers' vote? were taxi drivers and their wives.
:03:34. > :03:38.I'm not frightened of reaching out to middle England. You will find if
:03:38. > :03:45.you walk around London sub usual ya, they all know me and they all love
:03:45. > :03:49.This Week. Love This Week. I thought you were going to say they all love
:03:49. > :03:54.you. One person who loves you, is Michael Portillo. He wasn't a happy
:03:54. > :04:00.chappie on Thursday night. You can't see it but you can hear. This is
:04:00. > :04:06.what he said. I was disappointed for her. She had decided to leave this
:04:06. > :04:11.something else in politics. She wanted to do something serious.
:04:11. > :04:13.something else in politics. She had taken what appeared to be a
:04:13. > :04:15.something else in politics. She position but taken it extremely
:04:15. > :04:22.serious and was committed to the issues. I'm quite disappointed for
:04:22. > :04:28.her. Why would Ed Miliband do such a thing. You just mentioned about
:04:28. > :04:36.London mayor, did Diane not ask thing. You just mentioned about
:04:37. > :04:39.Someone who's an eminent person thing. You just mentioned about
:04:39. > :04:43.this programme, I don't know how he could do that. I think Michael's
:04:43. > :04:50.missing you. Are you free this Thursday night? Make him a happy
:04:50. > :04:54.man, come back to the fold. I think I may be free this Thursday night.
:04:54. > :04:59.So, if he'll have me, I'll be there. My people will speak to your people.
:04:59. > :05:03.We'll get it sorted out. Diane, watch that big vase behind you,
:05:03. > :05:10.you're not insured for. That thanks Does she have a chance of being
:05:10. > :05:12.Mayor of London? She's very well known as Michael pointed out. That
:05:12. > :05:19.is important. People who are outside known as Michael pointed out. That
:05:19. > :05:20.the party fold have traditionally done well in the mayoral election.
:05:20. > :05:26.The job of being a London mayor done well in the mayoral election.
:05:26. > :05:30.running an economy the size of a nation. It is a very serious job.
:05:30. > :05:38.There may be problems with her running? That was a transparent
:05:38. > :05:41.There may be problems with her for it. She's potentially a very
:05:41. > :05:49.There may be problems with her compelling Coll ticks. People have
:05:49. > :05:57.left-winger but she's quite tough and conservative. Michael Gove said
:05:57. > :06:02.he had fallen in love with Diane which That's one vote he has. What
:06:02. > :06:08.do you think? I thing about Diane Abbott is she has a fantastic way of
:06:08. > :06:12.connecting. She has a really good way of connecting wi people. She
:06:12. > :06:20.would be a very strong candidate in candidate. It will probably be a
:06:20. > :06:25.Labour win next time. Depends, if Labour wins the 2015 election it may
:06:25. > :06:30.be more difficult. There's a danger for Labour that Diane is the big
:06:30. > :06:35.personality liked by the party primary but isn't necessarily a
:06:36. > :06:39.personality liked by the party in come the London general election?
:06:39. > :06:45.That's true. London is traditionally a Labour city. But Boris managed to
:06:45. > :06:50.win as an outsider. There are big dangers for Labour with that. I
:06:50. > :06:54.think, as I said before, somebody who seems a bit independent from
:06:54. > :07:03.their own party machinery tend to do We've only had mayors so far that
:07:04. > :07:05.were independent? Indeed. And how well Ken Livingstone did last time.
:07:05. > :07:09.Not that far behind bar Is Johnson. well Ken Livingstone did last time.
:07:09. > :07:11.Not that far behind bar Is Johnson. He was and is much more left-wing
:07:11. > :07:20.than Diane Abbott. Diane didn't He was and is much more left-wing
:07:20. > :07:28.stray on Syria, it was immigration. Why was Jeremy brown replaced by
:07:28. > :07:33.This is very much to do with Clegg deciding he has to go back to those
:07:33. > :07:37.people who abandoned the Liberal Democrats the day they went into
:07:37. > :07:42.coalition with the Conservatives really, and convince them there
:07:42. > :07:46.coalition with the Conservatives some holy areas of policy, sacred
:07:46. > :07:48.areas which they will defend. That includes civil liberties. In the
:07:48. > :07:51.Home Office, that incident with includes civil liberties. In the
:07:51. > :07:57.immigration vans went down very badly across the whole nation. Went
:07:57. > :08:11.down particularly badly with Liberal somebody there to put a shield on
:08:11. > :08:14.purpose behind it. And Nick Clegg has won the argument against the
:08:14. > :08:19.left, Vince Cable on the economy, away day in July, briefings say
:08:19. > :08:21.DrCable's been put in his box. He's won the argument on economic policy
:08:21. > :08:26.against the left. When it comes won the argument on economic policy
:08:26. > :08:30.the touchstone issue in the Home Office, he wants to shore up that
:08:30. > :08:36.vote on the left. And please The Guardian. This is important for
:08:36. > :08:41.something else going on which is that Nick Clegg has to keep his
:08:41. > :08:45.parliamentary party happy. That involves giving them ministerial
:08:45. > :08:54.jobs. A lot of Liberal Democrats losing their jobs, Michael Moore,
:08:54. > :09:03.because vacancies have to be created for number people to come in. By
:09:03. > :09:08.Liberal Democrat MPs will have been on the payroll. It is effective
:09:08. > :09:14.party management. I want to move on to press regulation. Brian Leveson's
:09:14. > :09:19.famous report, appeared before the parliamentary select committee.
:09:19. > :09:28.famous report, appeared before the will run you a clip from Connor
:09:28. > :09:34.politicians got involved in this. We moved away from the press 300 years
:09:34. > :09:42.ago. The centr commitment is Lord Leveson wanted a system the press
:09:42. > :09:47.self-regulation. This is state involvement which I worry about
:09:47. > :09:54.profoundly. He sits on the media interviews and investigations into
:09:54. > :09:57.the media. Chris Huhne said earlier he thought all the newspapers would
:09:57. > :10:05.sign up to the Government-backed Royal Charter. I think he's totally
:10:05. > :10:10.should. But he did say they would. I think he's wrong. They won't sign
:10:10. > :10:13.up. All the mood music when that Royal Charter was agreed on Friday
:10:13. > :10:20.was they would not sign up. It is Maria Miller, is essentially saying
:10:21. > :10:24.to the press industry, if you don't sign up, the Royal charter will
:10:24. > :10:30.to the press industry, if you don't ahead. I cannot control the Labour
:10:30. > :10:31.to the press industry, if you don't industry is wind the clock back
:10:31. > :10:35.to the press industry, if you don't what they are calling the Puttnam
:10:35. > :10:42.stage. That was earlier this year, Lord Puttnam was tack amendments
:10:42. > :10:51.which would introduce statutory regulation. Maria Miller says you
:10:51. > :10:57.statutory legislation but if you don't sign up to this, it will be a
:10:57. > :11:03.lot worse. Will that work? Playing the good cop, bad cop routine? Will
:11:03. > :11:07.that pressurise everyone to sign up. Lots of people are saying this will
:11:07. > :11:12.be a club with no members. It won't work. As Nick and I broke the story
:11:12. > :11:18.last week that the Government was going to reject the newspaper-backed
:11:18. > :11:24.one, I'm certain that the newspapers now, most of them maybe, not all,
:11:24. > :11:27.but most, will go the legal route and to judicial review on what the
:11:27. > :11:32.Government's proposing and will and to judicial review on what the
:11:33. > :11:40.it to strains Bowring where freedom of the press is enshrined. They
:11:40. > :11:42.it to strains Bowring where freedom fight this? There is enough fury
:11:42. > :11:46.amongst Fleet Street to result in that. The big political question
:11:47. > :11:50.going forward is which of the party leaders does the press blame the
:11:50. > :11:54.most for the emergence of press regulation? The Tories are very
:11:54. > :12:00.confident they'll blame Ed Miliband the most. They'll target him before
:12:00. > :12:07.2015. David Cameron gave us Brian Leveson. You appoint a judge who
:12:07. > :12:13.shouldn't be surprised with what you got in the Leveson report? I big
:12:13. > :12:22.chunk of press will look at David Cameron saying, you were the guy who
:12:22. > :12:32.intended what will happen. If he had have appointed Brian Leveson. If
:12:32. > :12:37.they face more punitive fines over Labour ale cases they take that
:12:37. > :12:40.they face more punitive fines over Europe. The Daily Mail and the
:12:40. > :12:45.tallest presumably will have to suspend their campaign of Britain to
:12:46. > :12:53.leave the European Convention of suspend that. We must never come out
:12:53. > :13:00.Churchill was behind it. He was indeed. But it is actually a major
:13:00. > :13:04.constitutional issue whether you regulate the press or not. There was
:13:04. > :13:08.constitutional issue whether you a lot of ill feeling that this Marie
:13:08. > :13:12.ya miller statement was snubbing out on Friday afternoon. Somebody said
:13:12. > :13:18.freedom of the press too important to sneak out on afully afternoon.
:13:18. > :13:23.The whole subject should be treated with respect. We've run out of time.
:13:23. > :13:27.I'll be back next Sunday with the Communities Secretary Eric Pickles
:13:27. > :13:37.at our usual time of 11.00am. If