:00:36. > :00:40.Morning, folks. Welcome to the Sunday Politics. Hope you enjoyed
:00:41. > :00:45.the extra hour in bed, and that you've realised it's not 12:45. It's
:00:46. > :00:48.11:45! It's getting stormy outside. But they're already battening down
:00:49. > :00:51.the hatches at Number Ten because coalition splits are back, with
:00:52. > :00:56.bust-ups over free schools and power bills. We'll speak to the Lib Dems,
:00:57. > :01:00.and ask Labour who's conning whom over energy.
:01:01. > :01:03.EU leaders have been meeting in Brussels. But how's David Cameron
:01:04. > :01:13.getting on with that plan to change our relationship with Europe? We
:01:14. > :01:17.were there to ask him. Have we got any powers back yet? DS!
:01:18. > :01:19.Foreign companies own everything from our energy companies to our
:01:20. > :01:27.railways. Does it matter who And in the East Midlands, we hear
:01:28. > :01:29.from the jobless youngsters who say they've disappeared from the
:01:30. > :01:31.unemployment figures. And up for sale again ` what's the future for
:01:32. > :01:35.the East as many daily journeys made by bus
:01:36. > :01:43.than by tube, so why is the planned investment in buses not keeping
:01:44. > :01:46.pace? And with me, three journalists
:01:47. > :01:48.who've bravely agreed to hunker down in the studio while Britain braces
:01:49. > :01:51.itself for massive storm winds, tweeting their political forecasts
:01:52. > :01:59.with all the accuracy of Michael Fish on hurricane watch. Helen
:02:00. > :02:01.Lewis, Janan Ganesh and Nick Watt. Now, sometimes coalition splits are
:02:02. > :02:06.over-egged, or dare we say even occasionally stage-managed. But this
:02:07. > :02:10.week, we've seen what looks like the genuine article. It turns out Nick
:02:11. > :02:13.Clegg has his doubts about the coalition's flagship free schools
:02:14. > :02:16.policy. David Cameron doesn't much like the green levies on our energy
:02:17. > :02:20.bills championed by the Lib Dems. Neither of them seems to have
:02:21. > :02:24.bothered to tell the other that they had their doubts. Who better to
:02:25. > :02:34.discuss these flare-ups than Lib Dem Deputy Leader Simon Hughes? He joins
:02:35. > :02:38.me now. Welcome. Good morning. The Lib Dems spent three years of
:02:39. > :02:42.sticking up for the coalition when times were grim. Explain to me the
:02:43. > :02:48.logic of splitting from them when times look better. We will stick
:02:49. > :02:52.with it for five years. It is working arrangement, but not
:02:53. > :02:56.surprisingly, where there right areas on which we disagree over
:02:57. > :03:00.where to go next, we will stand up. It is going to be hard enough for
:03:01. > :03:06.the Lib Dems to get any credit for the recovery, what ever it is. It
:03:07. > :03:09.will be even harder if you seem to be semidetached and picky. The
:03:10. > :03:15.coalition has led on economic policy, some of which were entirely
:03:16. > :03:19.from our stable. The one you have heard about most often, a Lib Dem
:03:20. > :03:24.initiative, was to take people on blowing comes out of tax. The
:03:25. > :03:28.recovery would not have happened, there would not have been confidence
:03:29. > :03:34.in Britain, had there not been a coalition government with us in it,
:03:35. > :03:38.making sure the same policies produced fair outcomes. We are not
:03:39. > :03:42.going to leave the credit for any growth - and there has been very
:03:43. > :03:47.good news this week. We have played a part in that, and without us, it
:03:48. > :03:51.would not have happened. Does it not underline the trust problem you
:03:52. > :03:56.have? You promised to abolish tuition fees. You oppose nuclear
:03:57. > :04:02.power, now you are cheerleading the first multi-billion pounds
:04:03. > :04:07.investment in nuclear generation. You are dying out on your enthusiasm
:04:08. > :04:11.on green levies, and now they are up for renegotiation. Why should we
:04:12. > :04:20.trust a word you say? In relation to green levies, as you well know, just
:04:21. > :04:27.under 10% is to do with helping energy and helping people. Unless
:04:28. > :04:31.there is continuing investment in renewables, we will not have the
:04:32. > :04:36.British produced energy at cheaper cost to keep those bills down in the
:04:37. > :04:46.future. At cheaper cost? Explain that to me. Off-shore energy is
:04:47. > :04:49.twice the market rate. The costs of renewables will increasingly come
:04:50. > :04:54.down. We have fantastic capacity to produce the energy and deliver lots
:04:55. > :04:59.of jobs in the process. The parts of the energy bill that may be up for
:05:00. > :05:03.renegotiation seems to be the part where we subsidise to help either
:05:04. > :05:10.poor people pay less, or where we do other things. Too insulated the
:05:11. > :05:15.homes? Are you up to putting that to general taxation? Wouldn't that be
:05:16. > :05:19.progressive? I would. It would be progressive. I would like to do for
:05:20. > :05:24.energy bills what the Chancellor has done for road traffic users,
:05:25. > :05:30.drivers, which is too fuelled motor fuel -- to freeze new to fall. That
:05:31. > :05:34.would mean there would be an immediate relief this year, not
:05:35. > :05:39.waiting for the election. So there is a deal to be done there? Yes We
:05:40. > :05:43.understand we have to take the burden off the consumer, and also
:05:44. > :05:47.deal with the energy companies, who look as if they are not paying all
:05:48. > :05:50.the tax they should be, and the regulator, which doesn't regulate
:05:51. > :05:55.quickly enough to deal with the issues coming down the track. We can
:05:56. > :05:59.toughen the regulator, and I hope that the Chancellor, in the Autumn
:06:00. > :06:03.statement, was signalled that energy companies will not be allowed to get
:06:04. > :06:10.away with not paying the taxes they should. And this deal will allow
:06:11. > :06:15.energy prices to come down? Yes How could David Laws, one of your
:06:16. > :06:20.ministers, proudly defend the record of unqualified teachers working in
:06:21. > :06:25.free schools, and then stand side-by-side with Mr Clegg, as he
:06:26. > :06:30.says he is against them? David Laws was not proudly defending the fact
:06:31. > :06:34.that it is unqualified teachers He said that some of the new,
:06:35. > :06:41.unqualified teachers in free schools are doing a superb job. But you want
:06:42. > :06:45.to get rid of them? We want to make sure that everybody coming into a
:06:46. > :06:51.free school ends up being qualified. Ends up? Goes through a process that
:06:52. > :06:55.means they have qualifications. Just as we said very clearly at the last
:06:56. > :07:01.election that the manifesto curriculum in free schools should be
:07:02. > :07:06.the same as other schools. It looks like Mr Clegg is picking a fight
:07:07. > :07:10.just for the sake of it. Mr Clegg was taught by people who didn't have
:07:11. > :07:15.teaching qualifications in one of the greatest schools in the land, if
:07:16. > :07:20.not the world. It didn't seem to do him any harm. What is the problem?
:07:21. > :07:27.If you pay to go to a school, you know what you're getting. But that
:07:28. > :07:31.is what a free school is. No, you don't pay fees. A free school is
:07:32. > :07:35.parents taking the decisions, not you, the politicians. We believe
:07:36. > :07:40.they would expect to guarantee is, firstly that the minimum curriculum
:07:41. > :07:44.taught across the country is taught in the free schools, and secondly,
:07:45. > :07:47.that the teachers there are qualified. Someone who send their
:07:48. > :07:54.kids to private schools took a decision to take -- to send their
:07:55. > :07:59.children there, even if the teachers were unqualified, because they are
:08:00. > :08:05.experts in their field. Someone who send their kids to free schools is
:08:06. > :08:11.because -- is their decision, not yours. Because some of the free
:08:12. > :08:14.schools are new, and have never been there before, parents need a
:08:15. > :08:21.guarantee that there are some basics in place, whatever sort of school.
:08:22. > :08:25.So they need you to hold their hand? It is not about holding hands, it is
:08:26. > :08:29.about having a minimum guarantee. Our party made clear at our
:08:30. > :08:34.conference that this is a priority for us. Nick Clegg reflects the view
:08:35. > :08:37.of the party, and I believe it is an entirely rational thing to do. Nick
:08:38. > :08:45.Clegg complained that the Prime Minister gave him only 30 minutes
:08:46. > :08:50.notice on the Prime Minister Buzz 's U-turn on green levies. That is
:08:51. > :08:55.almost as little time as Nick Clegg gave the Prime Minister on his
:08:56. > :09:03.U-turn on free schools. Aren't you supposed to be partners? Green
:09:04. > :09:06.levies were under discussion in the ministerial group before Wednesday,
:09:07. > :09:10.because we identified this as an issue. We do that in a practical
:09:11. > :09:17.way. Sometimes there is only half an hour's notice. We had even less than
:09:18. > :09:23.half an hour this morning! Simon Hughes, thank you.
:09:24. > :09:28.So the price of energy is the big battle ground in politics at the
:09:29. > :09:33.moment. 72% of people say that high bills will influence the way they
:09:34. > :09:36.vote at the next election. Ed Miliband has promised a price freeze
:09:37. > :09:43.after the next election, but will the coalition turned the tables on
:09:44. > :09:52.Labour, with its proposal to roll back green levies. Caroline Flint
:09:53. > :09:59.joins us from Sheffield. It looks like the coalition will be able to
:10:00. > :10:04.take ?50 of energy bills, by removing green levies. It is quite
:10:05. > :10:07.clear that different parts of the government are running round waking
:10:08. > :10:10.up to the fact that the public feel that this government has not done
:10:11. > :10:15.enough to listen to their concerns. Last week, there was a classic case
:10:16. > :10:20.of the Prime Minister making up policy literally at the dispatch
:10:21. > :10:23.box. Let's see what they say in the autumn statement. The truth is,
:10:24. > :10:28.whatever the debate around green levies, and I have always said we
:10:29. > :10:46.should look at value for money at those green levies. Our argument is
:10:47. > :10:49.about acknowledging there is something wrong with the way the
:10:50. > :10:51.market works, and the way those companies are regulated. Behind our
:10:52. > :10:53.freeze for 20 months is a package of proposals to reform this market I
:10:54. > :10:56.understand that, but you cannot tell as the details about that. I can.
:10:57. > :10:59.You cannot give us the details about reforming the market. We are going
:11:00. > :11:03.to do three things, and I think I said this last time I was on the
:11:04. > :11:06.programme. First, we are going to separate out the generation side
:11:07. > :11:14.from the supply side within the big six. Secondly, we will have a energy
:11:15. > :11:19.pool, or power exchange, where all energy will have to be traded in
:11:20. > :11:22.that pool. Thirdly, we will establish a tougher regulator,
:11:23. > :11:28.because Ofgem is increasingly being seen as not doing the job right I
:11:29. > :11:33.notice that you didn't mention any reform of the current green and
:11:34. > :11:39.social taxes on the energy bill Is it Labour's policy to maintain the
:11:40. > :11:43.existing green levies? In 2011, the government chose to get rid of warm
:11:44. > :11:48.front, which was the publicly funded through tracks a scheme to support
:11:49. > :11:53.new installation. When they got rid of that, it was the first time we
:11:54. > :11:59.had a government since the 70s that didn't have such a policy. What is
:12:00. > :12:04.your policy? We voted against that because we believe it is wrong. We
:12:05. > :12:14.believe that the eco-scheme, a government intervention which is ?47
:12:15. > :12:17.of the ?112 on our bills each year, is expensive, bureaucratic and isn't
:12:18. > :12:21.going to the fuel poor. I am up for a debate on these issues. I am up
:12:22. > :12:25.for a discussion on what the government should do and what these
:12:26. > :12:28.energy companies should do. We cannot let Cameron all the energy
:12:29. > :12:33.companies off the hook from the way in which they organise their
:12:34. > :12:39.businesses, and expect us to pay ever increasing rises in our bills.
:12:40. > :12:44.There is ?112 of green levies on our bills at the moment. Did you vote
:12:45. > :12:50.against any of them? We didn't, but what I would say ease these were
:12:51. > :12:55.government imposed levies. When they got rid of the government funded
:12:56. > :13:04.programme, Warm Front, they introduced the eco-scheme. The
:13:05. > :13:09.eco-project is one of the ones where the energy companies are saying
:13:10. > :13:12.it's too bureaucratic, and it is proving more expensive than
:13:13. > :13:16.government estimates, apparently doubled the amount the government
:13:17. > :13:23.thought. These things are all worth looking at, but don't go to the
:13:24. > :13:31.heart of the issue. According to official figures, on current plans,
:13:32. > :13:36.which you support, which you voted for, households will be paying 1%
:13:37. > :13:48.more per unit of electricity by 2030. It puts your temporary freeze
:13:49. > :13:52.as just a blip. You support a 4 % rise in our bills. I support making
:13:53. > :13:57.sure we secure for the future access to energy that we can grow here in
:13:58. > :14:03.the UK, whether it is through nuclear, wind or solar, or other
:14:04. > :14:09.technologies yet to be developed. We should protect ourselves against
:14:10. > :14:14.energy costs we cannot control. The truth is, it is every fair for you
:14:15. > :14:18.to put that point across, and I accept that, but we need to hear the
:14:19. > :14:23.other side about the cost for bill payers if we didn't invest in new,
:14:24. > :14:27.indigenous sources of energy supply for the future, which, in the long
:14:28. > :14:32.run, will be cheaper and more secure, and create the jobs we
:14:33. > :14:36.need. I think it is important to have a debate about these issues,
:14:37. > :14:41.but they have to be seen in the right context. If we stay stuck in
:14:42. > :14:46.the past, we will pay more and we will not create jobs. How can you
:14:47. > :14:52.criticise the coalition's plans for a new nuclear station, when jeering
:14:53. > :14:57.13 years of a Labour government you did not invest in a single nuclear
:14:58. > :15:07.plant? You sold off all our nuclear technology to foreign companies
:15:08. > :15:13.Energy provision was put out to private hands and there has been no
:15:14. > :15:25.obstacle in British law against ownership outside the UK. Part of
:15:26. > :15:29.this is looking ahead. Because your previous track record is so bad
:15:30. > :15:34.What we did decide under the previous government, we came to the
:15:35. > :15:40.view, and there were discussions in our party about this, that we did
:15:41. > :15:45.need to support a nuclear future. At the time of that, David Cameron
:15:46. > :15:50.was one of those saying that nuclear power should be a last
:15:51. > :15:54.resort. And as you said, the Liberals did not support it. We
:15:55. > :15:59.stood up for that. We set in train the green light of 10 sites,
:16:00. > :16:03.including Hinkley Point, for nuclear development. I am glad to
:16:04. > :16:08.see that is making progress and we should make more progress over the
:16:09. > :16:14.years ahead. We took a tough decision when other governments had
:16:15. > :16:23.not done. You did not build a new nuclear station. When you get back
:16:24. > :16:29.into power, will you build HS2? That has not had a blank cheque
:16:30. > :16:34.from the Labour Party. I am in favour of good infrastructure. Are
:16:35. > :16:40.you in favour of?, answer the question? I have answered the
:16:41. > :16:45.question. It does not have a blank cheque. If the prices are too high,
:16:46. > :16:49.we will review the decision when we come back to vote on it. We will be
:16:50. > :16:54.looking at it closely. We have to look for value for money and how it
:16:55. > :17:01.benefits the country. Have you stocked up on jumpers this winter?
:17:02. > :17:07.I am perfectly all right with my clothing. What is important, it is
:17:08. > :17:11.ridiculous for the Government to suggest that the answer to the loss
:17:12. > :17:21.of trust in the energy companies is to put on another jumper.
:17:22. > :17:27.The coalition has taken a long time to come up with anything that can
:17:28. > :17:33.trump Ed Miliband's simple freezing energy prices, vote for us. Are
:17:34. > :17:36.they on the brink of doing so? I do not think so. They have had a
:17:37. > :17:41.problem that has dominated the debate, talking about GDP, the
:17:42. > :17:47.figures came out on Friday and said, well, and went back to talking
:17:48. > :17:53.about energy. My problem with what David Cameron proposes is he agrees
:17:54. > :17:58.with the analysis that the Big Six make too many profits. He wants to
:17:59. > :18:01.move the green levies into general taxation, so that he looks like he
:18:02. > :18:08.is protecting the profits of the energy companies. If the coalition
:18:09. > :18:14.can say they will take money off the bills, does that change the
:18:15. > :18:18.game? I do not think the Liberal Democrats are an obstacle to
:18:19. > :18:25.unwinding the green levies. I think Nick Clegg is open to doing a deal,
:18:26. > :18:30.but the real obstacle is the carbon reduction targets that we signed up
:18:31. > :18:34.to during the boom years. They were ambitious I thought at the time
:18:35. > :18:39.From that we have the taxes and clocking up of the supply-side of
:18:40. > :18:43.the economy. Unless he will revise that, and build from first
:18:44. > :18:49.principles a new strategy, he cannot do more than put a dent into
:18:50. > :18:54.green levies. He might say as I have got to ?50 now and if you
:18:55. > :18:58.voters in in an overall majority, I will look up what we have done in
:18:59. > :19:04.the better times and give you more. I am sure he will do that. It might
:19:05. > :19:09.be ?50 of the Bill, but it will be ?50 on your general taxation bill,
:19:10. > :19:16.which would be more progressive They will find it. We will never
:19:17. > :19:22.see it in general taxation. The problem for the Coalition on what
:19:23. > :19:25.Ed Miliband has done is that it is five weeks since he made that
:19:26. > :19:29.speech and it is all we are talking about. David Cameron spent those
:19:30. > :19:33.five weeks trying to work out whether Ed Miliband is a Marxist or
:19:34. > :19:38.whether he is connected to Middle Britain. That is why Ed Miliband
:19:39. > :19:44.set the agenda. The coalition are squabbling among themselves,
:19:45. > :19:50.looking petulant, on energy, and on schools. Nobody is taking notice of
:19:51. > :19:55.the fact the economy is under way, the recovery is under way. Ed
:19:56. > :20:02.Miliband has made the weather on this.
:20:03. > :20:12.It UK has a relaxed attitude about selling off assets based -- to
:20:13. > :20:15.companies based abroad. But this week we have seen the Swiss owner
:20:16. > :20:17.of one of Scotland's largest industrial sites, Grangemouth, come
:20:18. > :20:20.within a whisker of closing part of it down. So should we care whether
:20:21. > :20:23.British assets have foreign owners? Britain might be a nation of
:20:24. > :20:28.homeowners, but we appear to have lost our taste for owning some of
:20:29. > :20:31.our biggest businesses. These are among the crown jewels sold off in
:20:32. > :20:38.the past three decades to companies based abroad. Roughly half of
:20:39. > :20:40.Britain's essential services have overseas owners. The airport owner,
:20:41. > :20:43.British Airports Authority, is owned by a Spanish company.
:20:44. > :20:46.Britain's largest water company Thames, is owned by a consortium
:20:47. > :20:49.led by an Australian bank. Four out of six of Britain's biggest energy
:20:50. > :20:52.companies are owned by overseas giants, and one of these, EDF
:20:53. > :20:55.Energy, which is owned by the French state, is building Britain's
:20:56. > :21:02.first nuclear power plant in a generation, backed by Chinese
:21:03. > :21:07.investors. It's a similar story for train operator Arriva, bought by a
:21:08. > :21:10.company owned by the German state. So part of the railways privatised
:21:11. > :21:19.by the British government was effectively re-nationalised by the
:21:20. > :21:22.German government. But does it matter who owns these companies as
:21:23. > :21:27.long as the lights stay on, the trains run on time, and we can
:21:28. > :21:32.still eat Cadbury's Dairy Milk? We are joined by the general
:21:33. > :21:39.secretary of the RMT, Bob Crow, and by venture capitalist Julie Meyer.
:21:40. > :21:46.They go head to head. Have we seen the consequences of
:21:47. > :21:52.relying for essential services to be foreign-owned? Four of the Big
:21:53. > :21:59.Six energy companies, Grangemouth, owned by a tax exile in Switzerland.
:22:00. > :22:04.It is not good. I do not think there is a cause and effect
:22:05. > :22:08.relationship between foreign ownership and consumer prices. That
:22:09. > :22:13.is not the right comparison. We need to be concerned about
:22:14. > :22:16.businesses represented the future, businesses we are good at
:22:17. > :22:22.innovating for example in financial services and the UK has a history
:22:23. > :22:34.of building businesses, such as Monotypes. If we were not creating
:22:35. > :22:40.businesses here -- Monotise. Like so many businesses creating
:22:41. > :22:48.products and services and creating the shareholders. Should we allow
:22:49. > :22:52.hour essential services to be in foreign ownership? It was
:22:53. > :22:58.demonstrated this week at Grangemouth. If you do not own the
:22:59. > :23:02.industry, you do not own it. The MPs of this country and the
:23:03. > :23:06.politicians in Scotland have no say, they were consultants.
:23:07. > :23:13.Multinationals decide whether to shut a company down. If that had
:23:14. > :23:18.been Unite union, they are the ones who saved the jobs. They
:23:19. > :23:23.capitulated. They will come back, like they have for the past 150
:23:24. > :23:29.years, and capture again what they lost. If it had closed, they would
:23:30. > :23:33.have lost their jobs for ever. If the union had called the members up
:23:34. > :23:38.without a ballot for strike action, there would have been uproar. This
:23:39. > :23:43.person in Switzerland can decide to shut the entire industry down. The
:23:44. > :23:49.coalition, the Labour Party, as well, when Labour was in government,
:23:50. > :23:52.they played a role of allowing industries to go abroad, and it
:23:53. > :24:05.should be returned to public ownership. Nestor. It has
:24:06. > :24:13.demonstrated that the Net comes from new businesses. We must not
:24:14. > :24:20.be... When Daly motion was stopped by the French government to be sold,
:24:21. > :24:24.it was an arrow to the heart of French entrepreneurs. We must not
:24:25. > :24:29.create that culture in the UK. Every train running in France is
:24:30. > :24:36.built in France. 90% of the trains running in Germany are built in
:24:37. > :24:44.Germany. In Japan, it has to be built in that country, and now an
:24:45. > :24:48.energy company in France is reducing its nuclear capability in
:24:49. > :24:52.its own country and wants to make profits out of the British industry
:24:53. > :24:56.to put back into it state industry. That happened with the railway
:24:57. > :25:02.industry. They want to make money at the expense of their own state
:25:03. > :25:09.companies. We sold off energy production. How did we end up in a
:25:10. > :25:15.position where our nuclear capacity will be built by a company owned by
:25:16. > :25:24.a socialist date, France, and funded by a communist one, China,
:25:25. > :25:27.for vital infrastructure? I am not suggesting that is in the national
:25:28. > :25:33.interest. I am saying we can pick any one example and say it is a
:25:34. > :25:36.shame. The simple matter of the fact is the owners are having to
:25:37. > :25:41.make decisions. Not just Grangemouth, businesses are making
:25:42. > :25:47.decisions about what is the common good. Not just in the shareholders'
:25:48. > :25:52.interest. For employees, customers. What is in the common good when
:25:53. > :25:56.prices go up by 10% and the reason is that 20 years ago they shut
:25:57. > :26:01.every coal pit down in this country, the Germans kept theirs open and
:26:02. > :26:07.subsidised it and now we have the Germans doing away with nuclear
:26:08. > :26:14.power and they have coal. Under the Labour government, in 2008, the
:26:15. > :26:18.climate change Act was passed. Well before that, and you know yourself,
:26:19. > :26:22.they shut down the coal mines to smash the National Union of
:26:23. > :26:28.Mineworkers because they dared to stand up for people in their
:26:29. > :26:32.community. Even if we wanted to reopen the coalmines, it would be
:26:33. > :26:40.pointless. Under the 2008 Act, we are not meant to burn more coal
:26:41. > :26:47.The can, as if you spent some of the profits, you could have carbon
:26:48. > :26:51.catch up. That does not exist on a massive scale. You are arguing the
:26:52. > :26:56.case, Julie Meyer, for entrepreneurs to come to this
:26:57. > :27:02.country. Even Bob Crow is not against that. We are trying to
:27:03. > :27:10.argue, should essential services be in foreign hands? Not those in
:27:11. > :27:15.Silicon round about doing start ups. I am trying to draw a broader
:27:16. > :27:19.principle than just energy. Something like broadband services,
:27:20. > :27:26.also important to the functioning of the economy. I believe in the
:27:27. > :27:31.UK's ability to innovate. When we have businesses that play off
:27:32. > :27:36.broadband companies to get the best prices for consumers. These new
:27:37. > :27:43.businesses and business models are the best way. Not to control, but
:27:44. > :27:48.to influence. It will be a disaster. Prices will go up and up as a
:27:49. > :27:54.result. Nissan in Sunderland, a Japanese factory, some of the best
:27:55. > :27:57.cars and productivity. You want that to be nationalised and bring
:27:58. > :28:02.it down to the standard of British Leyland? It is not bring it down to
:28:03. > :28:07.the standard. The car manufacturing base in this country has been
:28:08. > :28:13.wrecked. We make more cars now for 20 years -- than in 20 years.
:28:14. > :28:20.Ford's Dagenham produced some of the best cars in the world. Did you
:28:21. > :28:27.buy one? I cannot drive. They moved their plants to other countries
:28:28. > :28:31.where it was cheaper labour. Would you nationalise Nissan? There
:28:32. > :28:38.should be one car industry that produces cars for people. This week
:28:39. > :28:45.the EU summit was about Angela Merkel's mobile phone being tapped,
:28:46. > :28:49.they call it a handy. We sent Adam to Brussels and told him to ignore
:28:50. > :28:51.the business about phone-tapping and investigate the Prime
:28:52. > :29:08.Minister's policy on Europe instead. I have come to my first EU summit to
:29:09. > :29:12.see how David Cameron is getting on with his strategy to claim power was
:29:13. > :29:21.back from Brussels. Got any powers back yet? Yes! Which ones? Sadly,
:29:22. > :29:25.his fellow leaders were not as forthcoming. Chancellor, are you
:29:26. > :29:32.going to give any powers back to Britain? Has David Cameron asked you
:29:33. > :29:39.for any powers back? The president of the commission just laughed, and
:29:40. > :29:50.listen to the Lithuanian President. How is David Cameron's renegotiation
:29:51. > :29:55.strategy going? What's that? He wants powers back for Britain. No
:29:56. > :29:59.one knows what powers David Cameron actually wants. Even our usual
:30:00. > :30:07.allies, like Sweden, are bit baffled. We actually don't know yet
:30:08. > :30:14.what is going through the UK membership. We will await the
:30:15. > :30:20.finalisation of that first. You should ask him, and then tell us!
:30:21. > :30:25.Here is someone who must know, the Dutch Prime Minister, he is doing
:30:26. > :30:30.what we are doing, carrying out a review of the EU powers, known as
:30:31. > :30:35.competencies in the jargon, before negotiating to get some back. Have
:30:36. > :30:39.you had any negotiations with David Cameron over what powers you can
:30:40. > :30:46.bring back from Brussels? That is not on the agenda of this summit.
:30:47. > :30:50.Have you talked to him about it This is not on the schedule for this
:30:51. > :30:59.summit. David Cameron's advises tummy it is
:31:00. > :31:07.because he is playing the long game. -- David Cameron's advisers tell me.
:31:08. > :31:15.At this summit, there was a task force discussing how to cut EU red
:31:16. > :31:19.tape. Just how long this game is was explained to me outside the summit,
:31:20. > :31:25.by the leader of the Conservatives in the European Parliament. I think
:31:26. > :31:28.the behind-the-scenes negotiations will start happening when the new
:31:29. > :31:34.commissioner is appointed later next year. I think the detailed
:31:35. > :31:38.negotiations will start to happen bubbly after the UK general
:31:39. > :31:43.election. That is when we will start getting all of the detail of the
:31:44. > :31:50.horse trading, and real, Lake night negotiations. Angela Merkel seems
:31:51. > :31:55.keen to rewrite the EU's main treaties to deal with changes in the
:31:56. > :31:59.Eurozone, and that is the mechanism David Cameron would use to
:32:00. > :32:03.renegotiate our membership. Everyone here says his relationship with the
:32:04. > :32:08.German Chancellor is strong. So after days in this building, here is
:32:09. > :32:13.how it looks. David Cameron has a mountain to climb. It is climbable,
:32:14. > :32:19.but he isn't even in the foothills yet. Has he even started packing his
:32:20. > :32:23.bags for the trip? Joining us now, a man who knows a
:32:24. > :32:29.thing or two about the difficulties Prime Minister 's face in Europe.
:32:30. > :32:32.Former Deputy Prime Minister, Michael Heseltine. We are nine
:32:33. > :32:41.months from David Cameron's defining speech on EU renegotiation. Can you
:32:42. > :32:46.think of one area of progress? I don't know. And you don't know. And
:32:47. > :32:52.that's a good thing. Why is it a good thing? Because the real
:32:53. > :33:03.progress goes on behind closed doors. And only the most naive,
:33:04. > :33:11.because the real progress goes on behind closed doors. Because, in
:33:12. > :33:16.this weary world, you and I, Andrew, know full well that the moment you
:33:17. > :33:21.say, I making progress, people say, where? And the machine goes to work
:33:22. > :33:27.to show that the progress isn't enough. So you are much better off
:33:28. > :33:37.making progress as best you can in the privacy of private diplomacy. It
:33:38. > :33:41.is a long journey ahead. In this long journey, do you have a clear
:33:42. > :33:47.sense of the destination? Do you have a clear sense of what powers Mr
:33:48. > :33:52.Cameron wants to negotiate? I have a clear sense of the destination,
:33:53. > :33:58.which is a victory for the campaign that he will win to stay inside the
:33:59. > :34:06.European community. That is the agenda, and I have total support for
:34:07. > :34:12.that. I understand that, but if he is incapable of getting any tangible
:34:13. > :34:18.sign of renegotiation, if he is able only to do what Wilson did in 1975,
:34:19. > :34:23.which was to get a couple of token changes to our membership status, he
:34:24. > :34:29.goes into that referendum without much to argue for. He has everything
:34:30. > :34:37.to argue for. He's got Britain's vital role as a major contributor to
:34:38. > :34:43.the community. He's got Britain's self interest as a major
:34:44. > :34:49.beneficiary, and Britain's vital role in the City of London. He's got
:34:50. > :34:54.argue for that now. He could have a argue for that now. He could have a
:34:55. > :35:02.referendum now. He doesn't want one now. I haven't any doubt that he
:35:03. > :35:11.will come back with something to talk about. But it may be slightly
:35:12. > :35:17.different to what his critics, the UK isolationist party people, want.
:35:18. > :35:23.He may, for example, have found that allies within the community want
:35:24. > :35:29.change as well, and he may secure changes in the way the community
:35:30. > :35:32.works, which would be a significant argument within the referendum
:35:33. > :35:37.campaign. Let me give you an example. I think it is a scandal
:35:38. > :35:44.that the European Commission don't secure the auditing of some of the
:35:45. > :35:49.accounts. Perhaps that could be on the agenda. He might find a lot of
:35:50. > :35:57.contributing countries, like Germany, like Colin and, would be
:35:58. > :36:02.very keen. -- like Holland. David vetoed the increase in the European
:36:03. > :36:08.budgets the other day, and he had a lot of allies. So working within
:36:09. > :36:13.Europe on the things that people paying the European bills want is
:36:14. > :36:20.fertile ground. Is John Major right to call for a windfall tax on the
:36:21. > :36:24.energy companies? John is a very cautious fellow. He doesn't say
:36:25. > :36:31.things without thinking them out. So I was surprised that he went for a
:36:32. > :36:35.windfall tax. First of all, it is retrospective, and secondly, it is
:36:36. > :36:41.difficult to predict what the consequences will be. I am, myself,
:36:42. > :36:44.more interested in the other part of his speech, which was talking about
:36:45. > :36:50.the need for the Conservative Party to seek a wider horizon, to
:36:51. > :36:54.recognise what is happening to the Conservative Party in the way in
:36:55. > :37:04.which its membership is shrinking into a southeastern enclave. Are you
:37:05. > :37:15.in favour of a windfall tax? I am not in favour of increasing any
:37:16. > :37:22.taxes. Do you share Iain Duncan Smith's point of view on welfare
:37:23. > :37:31.reform? I think Iain Duncan Smith is right. It is extremely difficult to
:37:32. > :37:40.do, but he is right to try. I think public opinion is behind him, but it
:37:41. > :37:45.isn't easy, because on the fringe of these issues there are genuine hard
:37:46. > :37:49.luck stories, and they are the ones that become the focus of attention
:37:50. > :37:56.the moment you introduce change. It requires a lot of political skill to
:37:57. > :38:01.negotiate your way through that. But isn't Iain Duncan Smith right to
:38:02. > :38:04.invoke the beverage principle, that you should be expected to make a
:38:05. > :38:11.contribution for the welfare you depend on? Yes, he is. I will let
:38:12. > :38:16.you get your Sunday lunch. Thanks for joining us.
:38:17. > :38:33.Coming up in just over 20 minutes, I will be looking
:38:34. > :38:38.In the East Midlands: No work, no training and no benefits ` the young
:38:39. > :38:41.people who say they're disappearing off the jobless figures too. We are
:38:42. > :38:45.not on any kind of database. And a survey of voters in the East
:38:46. > :38:47.Midlands says protect services for the elderly but services for the
:38:48. > :38:54.young can go. Council cuts, council cuts. Cuts
:38:55. > :39:00.from services for the young or the elderly, any opinions?
:39:01. > :39:03.Hello, I'm Marie Ashby. Here to add their expert insight, my guests this
:39:04. > :39:05.week are the Loughborough MP and newly`promoted Treasury Minister
:39:06. > :39:08.Nicky Morgan and Labour's Lilian Greenwood, the Nottingham South MP
:39:09. > :39:17.and Labour's spokesman for rail. Let us start with rail and something
:39:18. > :39:19.which concerns both of you. The Government is beginning the process
:39:20. > :39:23.of re`privatising the East Coast Mainline which runs through Newark
:39:24. > :39:26.and Grantham. It was taken over by the Government
:39:27. > :39:29.when National Express handed back the franchise because it could no
:39:30. > :39:33.longer afford it. Since then passenger numbers are up and it's
:39:34. > :39:36.paying back ?200 million this year to the Government. But there've also
:39:37. > :39:38.been problems with delays caused by bad weather and engineering work
:39:39. > :39:43.over`running. So, Nicky, with your new role in the
:39:44. > :39:45.Treasury, is this a bit of an embarrassment, the fact that it's
:39:46. > :39:52.running better as a state`owned operation than as a private one? I
:39:53. > :39:57.think it is encouraging that it is running well but be the government
:39:58. > :40:00.feels the private sector brings more expertise to running the railway
:40:01. > :40:04.lines. This is for the private sector to do. We are starting the
:40:05. > :40:11.process of looking for the right person to run it. If it is not
:40:12. > :40:15.broken? It is fine at the moment but the government is not there to run
:40:16. > :40:19.railway lines. There are many other railway lines being very well run by
:40:20. > :40:24.the private sector and East Coast mainline, we want them to join it.
:40:25. > :40:33.Surely, Lilian, this is a good time to privatise it? It is the wrong
:40:34. > :40:39.time. East Coast was taken over in 2009. Since then, it has had its
:40:40. > :40:42.best ever punctuality, its best ever customer satisfaction, it is paying
:40:43. > :40:47.more back to the Treasury. By the time it is re`franchise, it will
:40:48. > :40:53.have paid back almost ?1 billion and all of the profits, ?48 million,
:40:54. > :40:57.have been invested in the service. It is ideological. Really
:40:58. > :41:03.disappointing. I work with Nicky on getting improvements to rail lines,
:41:04. > :41:08.why don't they just do the same `` the sensible thing and concentrate
:41:09. > :41:15.on other franchises that have been delayed? Lilian makes some good
:41:16. > :41:19.points. We are delighted the service is being run so well. We think it it
:41:20. > :41:27.could be run even better in private hands. It is a question of what
:41:28. > :41:34.passengers want. They wanted to be well`run and on time and working for
:41:35. > :41:38.them. Passengers are at the heart of this. Would you renationalise the
:41:39. > :41:43.whole of the sector? We have said the East Coast should state in the
:41:44. > :41:49.public sector where it is doing a good job. It has had problems will
:41:50. > :41:53.stop there are problems with infrastructure. The money is going
:41:54. > :42:00.to go in to improve the rolling stock but the money is coming from
:42:01. > :42:05.the taxpayers `` it has had problems. Two people walked away
:42:06. > :42:09.from the franchise at huge cost to the government. It does not make
:42:10. > :42:12.sense to put it back out to the private sector while there are
:42:13. > :42:17.others to fix. Well, from earning money to saving
:42:18. > :42:20.it. As we've reported on this programme before, several of our
:42:21. > :42:24.councils have begun consulting with you to find out where they can make
:42:25. > :42:27.millions of pounds worth of cuts. And, the first to report back is
:42:28. > :42:31.Leicestershire County Council which carried out a survey of council tax
:42:32. > :42:33.payers in the county and there were some surprise results.
:42:34. > :42:35.According to the survey, the top candidates for cutting our street
:42:36. > :42:39.lighting, community grants, funding for agencies, travel to schools and
:42:40. > :42:44.grass cutting. The services people most wanted to see preserved work
:42:45. > :42:50.gritting, community services for older people, roads and paths,
:42:51. > :42:53.mental health services and help for physical and learning disabilities.
:42:54. > :43:00.Good news for the council perhaps was that 69% of people were prepared
:43:01. > :43:05.to see a rise in council tax but the bad news was that the areas
:43:06. > :43:05.identified for savings only account for ?32 0
:43:06. > :43:08.identified for savings only account for ?32 million of the Council's
:43:09. > :43:10.spending. Some interesting results there,
:43:11. > :43:13.including, it seems, permission to raise council tax. What does the
:43:14. > :43:22.council make of it? It is always very difficult to ask people to make
:43:23. > :43:26.decisions or to help make a decision over the substantial cuts because as
:43:27. > :43:34.you know we have got to make ?110 million savings over the next four
:43:35. > :43:38.years. What helps is not necessarily what you want to cut but what you
:43:39. > :43:43.want to protect. There are always going to be surprises but the real
:43:44. > :43:50.surprise to us was the respondents who said, over 60% of them, who said
:43:51. > :43:52.that they favoured a council tax increase.
:43:53. > :43:56.As a Leicestershire MP, you must take a close interest in this. Are
:43:57. > :44:05.surveys like this useful? Very useful . This has been the largest
:44:06. > :44:08.consultation. People are interested and prepared to share their views.
:44:09. > :44:14.It is a difficult time. We are asking councils to save money. It is
:44:15. > :44:19.right we should listen to the people who will benefit from the services
:44:20. > :44:23.and rely on them. The county council should listen. People are prepared
:44:24. > :44:27.to make some cuts but not necessarily to front line services.
:44:28. > :44:31.The choice people are being asked to make is impossible in the same way
:44:32. > :44:35.the choice councillors are being asked to make is impossible. These
:44:36. > :44:36.are government cuts that are being forced on us. What 0
:44:37. > :44:39.are government cuts that are being forced on us. What people don't see
:44:40. > :44:43.is the choice is the government is making and in lots of cases it is
:44:44. > :44:47.places like Nottingham which have got a very high level of deprivation
:44:48. > :44:52.who are having much larger cut than the better off parts of the country.
:44:53. > :44:56.That is not fair. The reason we're making these choices is because the
:44:57. > :45:00.last government carried on spending much more than it was earning four
:45:01. > :45:05.years. But you have been in power long enough now. This is systemic.
:45:06. > :45:11.The last government spent more than it earned for many years. You cannot
:45:12. > :45:19.do that at the county council level. This is about the choices you
:45:20. > :45:25.are making. That is why we are asking people what you think. 69% of
:45:26. > :45:30.people say they would rather pay more council tax than see services
:45:31. > :45:34.cut. They are trying to tell you something. It is very interesting.
:45:35. > :45:39.The Conservative group went into the last election and were elected again
:45:40. > :45:42.in May on the basis that they would put up council tax. We would much
:45:43. > :45:46.rather see people keep their own money and decide how to spend it.
:45:47. > :45:50.People are saying, we would be prepared to pay a bit more in order
:45:51. > :45:59.to save these particular services. They have also said... Grass
:46:00. > :46:03.cutting, obviously some people feel that as a service they could do
:46:04. > :46:08.without in order to protect things with mental health. But it will not
:46:09. > :46:13.save a lot of money. The other thing you have not covered is the way that
:46:14. > :46:18.people are saying, services could be run differently. We are going to see
:46:19. > :46:22.a lot more in Leicester City partnership working. We need to see
:46:23. > :46:25.health and social services system is working better together. Huge
:46:26. > :46:30.opportunities for doing things differently. That was picked up in
:46:31. > :46:35.the survey. We are all for things being run efficiently. Many councils
:46:36. > :46:41.have already pursued some of the `` lots of the opportunities for
:46:42. > :46:47.efficiency savings. Some councils are worried whether they can carry
:46:48. > :46:52.on with the statutory services, the things they are required by law to
:46:53. > :46:56.do. In my experience, people do one the grass cut but they are left with
:46:57. > :47:03.a choice of whether we look after older people or children in care or
:47:04. > :47:08.get our grass cut. Where do you think we are going to get the money
:47:09. > :47:11.from? Ed Balls wants to carry on borrowing. As we saw on Friday, we
:47:12. > :47:16.have growth returning to the economy which is a good thing and it means
:47:17. > :47:20.if we have more successful private sector businesses paying more taxes,
:47:21. > :47:21.there will be more money. We have had a lot of contraction. Where
:47:22. > :47:25.would you get the money 0 had a lot of contraction. Where
:47:26. > :47:29.would you get the money from? Where is the money going? The cuts are
:47:30. > :47:36.disproportionately falling on those places that can least afford to take
:47:37. > :47:40.the cuts. The question back to Nicky is not is the situation going to be
:47:41. > :47:44.difficult? Of course it is. It is the choice about where you put the
:47:45. > :47:49.money. Why are rich areas getting more money and be poor areas are
:47:50. > :47:54.getting hit? The point is that under the last government the shire
:47:55. > :47:58.counties lost out in terms of funding. This government is trying
:47:59. > :48:08.to rebalance that as well as protecting services.
:48:09. > :48:11.Just going back to that survey and the more eagle`eyed among you may
:48:12. > :48:14.have noticed a large vote for keeping services for older people,
:48:15. > :48:18.but a willingness to see services for young people cut. Not surprising
:48:19. > :48:21.perhaps when you hear that the over 55s accounted for 65% of respondents
:48:22. > :48:24.and people under 35 made up just 7.5%. So Des Coleman's been to
:48:25. > :48:26.Loughborough to find out what the young people of Leicestershire
:48:27. > :48:31.think. Council cuts. Cuts from services for the young or the
:48:32. > :48:35.elderly? Any opinions? Being epileptic, I need travel to school
:48:36. > :48:40.otherwise I cannot get him to school. I feel it is very unfair to
:48:41. > :48:49.cancel that sort of service. It is not fair because kids need a lot to
:48:50. > :48:53.learn so the future leaders... A lot of people like us, we are not
:48:54. > :48:57.earning but we have a lot of expenses now. Everything is being
:48:58. > :49:05.cut for us like University and stuff. Prices are going up. We are
:49:06. > :49:09.being affected by it all. I do not think they should cut children
:49:10. > :49:13.support services or free travel to school because the children have not
:49:14. > :49:16.done anything. They are going on about young families who cannot
:49:17. > :49:21.afford anything, why take stuff away from them? They need the support.
:49:22. > :49:25.Fair distribution between all of us. I think it is unfair how they are
:49:26. > :49:38.trying to cut hours when we are the future generation `` cut ours. They
:49:39. > :49:41.have not had to work to get their education.
:49:42. > :49:43.Quite a lot of the younger people there feeling hard done by,
:49:44. > :49:51.particularly when it comes to education. They feel they're being
:49:52. > :49:57.penalised. No decisions have been taken. This was a consultation. The
:49:58. > :50:00.youth Council and the youth panel have been involved in this. There
:50:01. > :50:04.were lots of other stakeholders as well. The Cabinet will make a
:50:05. > :50:09.decision. This is not the end. There will be an opportunity for young
:50:10. > :50:12.people if they feel they have not had a voice so far, they will have
:50:13. > :50:17.their voice. The county councils will be aware. If you talk to older
:50:18. > :50:21.residents in Loughborough, I am sure you would have got a different
:50:22. > :50:26.picture. Middle`aged people would young children, a different picture
:50:27. > :50:34.again. Everyone is very focused on what they know best. Use a prized?
:50:35. > :50:39.No, I was not. `` were you surprised? The economy growing is
:50:40. > :50:43.welcome but what you see in that film is that people are finding it
:50:44. > :50:47.difficult to get by. A real crisis in cost of living. Inevitably, they
:50:48. > :50:52.are feeling sore when people talk about taking with services that they
:50:53. > :50:56.rely on or asking them to pay more. Is it the fault of the young people
:50:57. > :51:02.for not getting more involved in politics? Are they to blame? There
:51:03. > :51:05.is a responsible itty on politicians to find ways to consult and engage
:51:06. > :51:11.with young people `` responsibility. We are going out and
:51:12. > :51:16.talking to communities and talking to people about what matters. You
:51:17. > :51:21.cannot expect people to come to you. Engaging young people is a big
:51:22. > :51:25.issue. This is their future. I think that two weeks ago I was at the
:51:26. > :51:31.youth Council in Loughborough and we had a good discussion there. It is
:51:32. > :51:35.up to politicians to engage. I think the county council will be very
:51:36. > :51:38.aware they need to have a cross`section. The other people you
:51:39. > :51:42.have not spoken about are the staff at the county council who also had
:51:43. > :51:45.input. Staying with the plight of young
:51:46. > :51:48.people, unemployment nationally is falling, but youth unemployment
:51:49. > :51:51.remains stubbornly high. It's a particular problem in the East
:51:52. > :51:53.Midlands where the number of NEETS, that's young people not in
:51:54. > :51:57.education, employment or training, is above the national average. Our
:51:58. > :52:00.political editor John Hess has been to see a pioneering scheme in
:52:01. > :52:07.Nottingham aiming to give young people hope. In this part of
:52:08. > :52:11.Nottingham, youth unemployment is a real problem. The number of people
:52:12. > :52:18.on jobseeker's allowance is double the national average. Even though
:52:19. > :52:28.statistics mask the reality. This is the reality for a group of NEETs.
:52:29. > :52:33.They volunteer to smarten up the pathways and gardens around
:52:34. > :52:36.Nottingham's estate. It keeps them off the streets. I have known a few
:52:37. > :52:43.of them since they will it also it has made it big difference for them.
:52:44. > :52:46.It is part of a community initiative with Nottingham City Council. This
:52:47. > :52:49.is about them building self worth in the community, giving them
:52:50. > :52:54.experience, working with professionals and it makes them want
:52:55. > :52:59.to go out and get work. Volunteering for this work has cost some of these
:53:00. > :53:03.lads their jobseeker's allowance because of tough new eligibility
:53:04. > :53:07.rules introduced a year ago on claiming the jobseeker's allowance.
:53:08. > :53:12.It is worth ?56 80 a week. When Jacob missed a Jobcentre interview
:53:13. > :53:20.because of a college appointment, he was sanctioned, lost his dole money
:53:21. > :53:25.and disappeared off the register. Does not fair. We are not even on
:53:26. > :53:32.the unemployed register. `` it is not fair. If you are not with the
:53:33. > :53:38.Jobcentre or if you have been sanctioned, you are not on the list.
:53:39. > :53:44.This man's jobseeker's allowance was withdrawn. How much do you rely on
:53:45. > :53:51.getting the jobseeker's allowance to keep going? I pay my mum some money
:53:52. > :54:01.and feed myself and travel to go and find a job. In the East Midlands,
:54:02. > :54:07.there are 96,000 NEETs. 18% of the region 16 to 24`year`olds are
:54:08. > :54:11.classified as NEET. The average for England is 15.5%. If finding work
:54:12. > :54:14.for young people on estates like this is tough, it is about to get
:54:15. > :54:20.tougher. Claiming jobseeker's allowance will mean more stick and
:54:21. > :54:25.carrots. We have brought renewed contract which gives us extra money
:54:26. > :54:31.to give more people below the age of 24 a real chance at apprenticeships.
:54:32. > :54:36.`` we have brought the youth contract. They cannot see the
:54:37. > :54:41.point. They do not think the Jobcentre does anything for them.
:54:42. > :54:44.That is the message going to Iain Duncan Smith next week and whether
:54:45. > :54:50.the sanctions policy is massaging the reality about rising youth
:54:51. > :54:54.unemployment. Taking that last point first. A lot of people feel they
:54:55. > :54:58.have dropped off the list. They do not appear in the official
:54:59. > :55:02.unemployment figures. Is that right? You only get sanctioned if
:55:03. > :55:10.you have turned down three reasonable job offers in a year.
:55:11. > :55:16.What opportunities had they been given? One wrist and a permit
:55:17. > :55:20.because of college. The whole point of jobseeker's allowance is that you
:55:21. > :55:23.are ready and willing to work. Many hard`working people in my
:55:24. > :55:28.constituency do not get a choice about whether they get up and go to
:55:29. > :55:34.work. They might not enjoy their job but they need the money. That is why
:55:35. > :55:39.you get jobseeker's allowance. Who is keeping track of the people who
:55:40. > :55:46.have dropped off the list? They are being scooped up. The government has
:55:47. > :55:50.given millions... Who does know? I do not think people fall off the
:55:51. > :55:54.list. The Department for Work and Pensions tells us they do not keep a
:55:55. > :55:57.record of how many people are sanctioned. No one does know how
:55:58. > :56:00.many people have fallen off the unemployment list. The figures for
:56:01. > :56:12.youth unemployment could be worse than we are told. At the general
:56:13. > :56:16.election, what I'm twice as many young people now. How do we know if
:56:17. > :56:24.no one is keeping track of this? We have set up this scheme to help
:56:25. > :56:29.people back into something so that not working and not being in
:56:30. > :56:32.education or training, it is not an option. We need them to make sure
:56:33. > :56:41.they have got proper of June to use, whether... They want to work? I
:56:42. > :56:46.think they do. People will say, they missed their appointment is, why
:56:47. > :56:50.should we feel sorry for them? Nicky's response was out of touch. I
:56:51. > :56:55.have met many people who tell me about their experience of trying to
:56:56. > :56:59.claim and being sanctioned for ridiculous things, very similar to
:57:00. > :57:03.the young man in the story. Someone had to go to college appointment
:57:04. > :57:06.which clashed with the Jobcentre appointment. They told them, I
:57:07. > :57:13.cannot go to the college appointment and they said, get an appointment
:57:14. > :57:19.card from the college and they did not accept it. A lot of people do
:57:20. > :57:22.not want to turn up. No doubt there are people who do not play the
:57:23. > :57:26.system properly but there are lots of people being sanctioned who are
:57:27. > :57:31.trying to do the right thing. That young man really wanted to get a
:57:32. > :57:36.job. We need proper action to get these young people into work. Do you
:57:37. > :57:40.have any sympathy for these young people? I have sympathy for the fact
:57:41. > :57:43.that they want to work. The real sympathy I have is that often they
:57:44. > :57:52.have been let down by the education system over many years. There was a
:57:53. > :57:56.scheme in Loughborough but a lot of the young people do not have basic
:57:57. > :58:03.skills like English and maths and employability skills. The counsellor
:58:04. > :58:08.in the clip talked about giving people skills. That is where the
:58:09. > :58:13.system has let them down. They need help. This week the government's own
:58:14. > :58:16.advisory body Social Mobility and Child Poverty Commission has said
:58:17. > :58:22.that your youth contract is not working. I think it has taken time
:58:23. > :58:26.and I think solving youth unemployment is not easy. Anyone who
:58:27. > :58:30.thinks it is easy... It is not just a question of finding a job, it is
:58:31. > :58:35.about building confidence, helping them to be good at interviews, basic
:58:36. > :58:41.things like turning up for work on time. Things that the rest of us
:58:42. > :58:45.take for granted but often people do not have those skills. Youth
:58:46. > :58:50.unemployment started rising under labour. It has gone up under this
:58:51. > :58:57.comment but they have not taken action. There are things that can be
:58:58. > :59:02.done `` under this government. The contracts are offered to big firms
:59:03. > :59:06.who put young people into a job for a short period of time and then they
:59:07. > :59:09.lose the job so the firms who are taking them on can do it over again
:59:10. > :59:14.and get the subsidy again. We should be looking at schemes like the one
:59:15. > :59:19.in the film and saying, what can we learn from that? The social mobility
:59:20. > :59:24.on child poverty commission suggested bringing in something like
:59:25. > :59:29.labour's work guarantee scheme. The point is about sustainable
:59:30. > :59:30.employment. The last government got people into work for a month or so
:59:31. > :59:32.and then they did not 0 people into work for a month or so
:59:33. > :59:37.and then they did not last in jobs. There is no point giving people an
:59:38. > :59:44.sustainable jobs. That is where the youth contract is having success.
:59:45. > :59:49.This is going on for a long time. No one is tracking whether they are
:59:50. > :59:52.permanent jobs. The clip was right about smaller schemes that are
:59:53. > :59:56.effective. They also have an important role to play in the
:59:57. > :00:00.system. We will have to leave it there.
:00:01. > :00:03.Time for a round`up of some of the other political stories in the East
:00:04. > :00:07.Midlands this week. Here's John with 60 Seconds.
:00:08. > :00:13.Conservatives and Liberal Democrats have celebrated a 10% drop in crime
:00:14. > :00:19.in the East Midlands. Labour's and the told a Westminster debate that
:00:20. > :00:23.cuts mean fewer people are arrested `` labour MP. The police cannot
:00:24. > :00:30.arrest because they have nowhere to put the drunks and the fighters on a
:00:31. > :00:33.Friday and Saturday night. A warning to motorists with new figures
:00:34. > :00:36.showing we have some of the most dangerous roads in the country.
:00:37. > :00:40.According to the road safety foundation, three of the top ten
:00:41. > :00:47.deadliest roads are in the Peak District. The A605 in
:00:48. > :00:54.Nottinghamshire is that number four. Going underground without leaving
:00:55. > :01:01.home, they scan of Nottingham's caves is under way. The project is
:01:02. > :01:08.funded by local authorities and the University of Nottingham. The
:01:09. > :01:12.remarkable images are online. Who would have thought all of that is
:01:13. > :01:15.underground in Nottingham? That's the Sunday Politics in the
:01:16. > :01:16.East Midlands. Thanks to Nicky Morgan and Lilian Greenwood for
:01:17. > :01:31.being our guests. free school area for into that
:01:32. > :01:31.Is Labour about to drop its support category. Thank you.
:01:32. > :01:36.Is Labour about to drop its support for High Speed 2, a rail line the
:01:37. > :01:47.party approved while in government? for High Speed 2, a rail line the
:01:48. > :01:59.these green shoots? These are all questions for The Week Ahead.
:02:00. > :02:03.So, HS2. Miss Flint wouldn't answer the question. She's in northern MP
:02:04. > :02:09.too. Ed Balls is comparing it to the Millennium Dome.
:02:10. > :02:13.too. Ed Balls is comparing it to the minute's silence for HS2? It will
:02:14. > :02:18.not be quite as crude as that. They will not stand up and say, we
:02:19. > :02:19.not be quite as crude as that. They senior Labour person said to me it
:02:20. > :02:21.would be a bit senior Labour person said to me it
:02:22. > :02:27.that Gordon Brown and Ed Balls set for the euro back in 97. They will
:02:28. > :02:31.be chucking lots of questions into the air, and the questions will
:02:32. > :02:38.create doubt, and will create the grounds for Labour to say, at some
:02:39. > :02:43.point, we think there is a much much better way of spending the money. It
:02:44. > :02:49.isn't ?42 billion, because that includes a contingency. Let's see
:02:50. > :02:57.what Peter Mandelson had to say about HS2. He was in the government
:02:58. > :03:01.when Labour supported it. Frankly, there was too much of the argument
:03:02. > :03:08.that if everyone else has got a high-speed train, we should have won
:03:09. > :03:13.too. Regardless of need, regardless of cost, and regardless of
:03:14. > :03:19.alternatives. As a party, to be frank, we didn't feel like being
:03:20. > :03:25.trumped by the zeal of the then opposition's support for the
:03:26. > :03:30.high-speed train. We wanted, if anything, to upstage them. So they
:03:31. > :03:37.didn't really need it, and we're only talking about ?50 billion. Why
:03:38. > :03:42.would you take a decision involving ?50 billion in a serious way? For
:03:43. > :03:47.David Cameron, if it becomes clear Labour is against it, he cannot
:03:48. > :03:52.proceed. He indicated last week that he wouldn't proceed if the certainty
:03:53. > :03:56.wasn't there. For Labour, HS2 is really a debate about the deficit by
:03:57. > :04:01.proxy. They think that if you don't go ahead with HS2, that releases
:04:02. > :04:05.tens of billions of pounds to spend on other things, such as public
:04:06. > :04:28.services, without going into boring. I don't think that works because
:04:29. > :04:30.there was a difference between cancelling something that already
:04:31. > :04:32.exists to pay for something else, and cancelling something that does
:04:33. > :04:35.not yet exist and will be paid for over decades to pay for something
:04:36. > :04:38.here and now. Can Labour do this? I know that the line will be, we are
:04:39. > :04:40.not going to build this railway because we are going to build
:04:41. > :04:43.200,000 houses a year. Can they do this without political cost? I think
:04:44. > :04:47.there will be political costs, but they will play this card of we have
:04:48. > :04:53.changed our mind. I think Cameron's line has been very clever, saying we
:04:54. > :04:58.cannot do it without labour. You can put it in two ways. Sorry, we cannot
:04:59. > :05:02.go ahead with it, but Labour has ruined your chance of prosperity, or
:05:03. > :05:08.they can tie themselves to it, and then Labour cannot attack it on
:05:09. > :05:14.great grounds when costs do spire. You can write Labour's script right
:05:15. > :05:22.now. They can say, if we were in charge, the financial management
:05:23. > :05:27.would be much better. This raises some really important questions for
:05:28. > :05:33.the government. They have utterly failed to make the case for HS2
:05:34. > :05:37.There is a real case to make. Between London and Birmingham it is
:05:38. > :05:42.about capacity not speed. North of Birmingham, it is about
:05:43. > :05:45.connectivity. It is a simple case to make, but it is only in the last
:05:46. > :05:49.month that they have been making that case. It shows really terrible
:05:50. > :05:57.complacency in the coalition that they haven't done that. We'll HS2
:05:58. > :06:01.happen or not? I think it will. For the reasons that Nick outlined,
:06:02. > :06:10.there is not of a constituency for it amongst Northern areas. -- there
:06:11. > :06:17.is enough of a constituency for it. There is private investment as well.
:06:18. > :06:23.It isn't like Heathrow. I say no, because I think Labour will drop
:06:24. > :06:27.their support for it. Caroline Flint said she was in favour of the
:06:28. > :06:32.concept of trains generally, but will it go further than that? It is
:06:33. > :06:38.difficult to see how it will go ahead if Labour will not support it
:06:39. > :06:45.after setting five tests that it clearly will not meet. Some will
:06:46. > :06:50.breathe a sigh of relief. Some will say, even in the 20th century, we
:06:51. > :06:56.cannot build a proper rail network. The economy was another big story of
:06:57. > :07:01.the week. We had those GDP figures. There is a video the Tories are
:07:02. > :07:05.releasing. The world premiere is going to be here. Where's the red
:07:06. > :07:09.carpet? It gives an indication of how the Tories will hand Mr Miliband
:07:10. > :07:43.and labour in the run-up to the election. Let's have a look at it.
:07:44. > :07:49.These graphics are even worse than the ones we use on our show! How on
:07:50. > :07:58.earth would you expect that to go viral? It did have a strange feel
:07:59. > :08:02.about it. It doesn't understand the Internet at all. Who is going to
:08:03. > :08:14.read those little screens between it? Put a dog in it! However,
:08:15. > :08:20.putting that aside, I have no idea that that is going to go viral. The
:08:21. > :08:26.Tories are now operating - and I say Tories rather than the coalition -
:08:27. > :08:30.on the assumption that the economy is improving and will continue to
:08:31. > :08:36.improve, and that that will become more obvious as 2014 goes on. We
:08:37. > :08:42.just saw their how they will fight the campaign. Yes, and at the
:08:43. > :08:47.crucial moment, you will reach the point where wages. To rise at a
:08:48. > :08:51.faster pace than inflation, and then people will start to, in the words
:08:52. > :08:56.of Harold Macmillan, feel that they have never had it so good. That is
:08:57. > :09:05.the key moment. If the economy is growing, there is a rule of thumb
:09:06. > :09:08.that the government should get a benefit. But it doesn't always work
:09:09. > :09:11.like that. The fundamental point here is that Ed Miliband has had a
:09:12. > :09:17.great month. He has totally set the agenda. He has set the agenda with
:09:18. > :09:21.something - freezing energy prices - that may not work. That video shows
:09:22. > :09:25.that the Conservatives want to get the debate back to the
:09:26. > :09:32.fundamentals. That this is a party that told us for three years that
:09:33. > :09:37.this coalition was telling us to -- was taking us to hell on a handcart.
:09:38. > :09:44.That doesn't seem to have happened. The energy price was a very clever
:09:45. > :09:49.thing, at the party conference season, which now seems years ago.
:09:50. > :09:55.They saw that the recovery was going to happen, so they changed the
:09:56. > :10:00.debate to living standards. Some economists are now privately
:10:01. > :10:04.expecting growth to be 3% next year, which was inconceivable for five
:10:05. > :10:07.months ago. If growth is 3% next year, living standards will start to
:10:08. > :10:13.rise again. Where does Labour go then? I would go further, and say
:10:14. > :10:18.that even though Ed Miliband has made a small political victory on
:10:19. > :10:25.living standards, it hasn't registered in the polls. Those polls
:10:26. > :10:28.have been contracted since April -- have been contracting since April.
:10:29. > :10:34.That macro economic story matters more than the issue of living
:10:35. > :10:37.standards. The interesting thing about the recovery is it confounds
:10:38. > :10:43.everybody. No one was predicting, not the Treasury, not the media not
:10:44. > :10:51.the IMF, not the academics, and the only people I can think of... I fit
:10:52. > :10:56.-- I thought they knew everything! The only people I know who did are
:10:57. > :10:59.one adviser who is very close to George Osborne, and the clever hedge
:11:00. > :11:05.fund is who were buying British equities back in January. Because
:11:06. > :11:09.the Treasury's record is so appalling, no one believe them, but
:11:10. > :11:14.they were saying around February, March this year, that by the end of
:11:15. > :11:22.the summer, the recovery would be gathering momentum. For once, they
:11:23. > :11:26.turned out to be right! They said that the economy would be going gang
:11:27. > :11:33.bust is! Where did the new Tory voters come from? I agree, if the
:11:34. > :11:42.economic recovery continues, the coalition will be stronger. But
:11:43. > :11:47.where will they get new voters from? For people who sign up to help to
:11:48. > :11:51.buy, they will be locked into nice mortgages at a low interest rate,
:11:52. > :11:57.and just as you go into a general election, if you are getting 3%
:11:58. > :11:59.growth and unemployment is down the Bank of England will have to review
:12:00. > :12:04.their interest rates. People who are getting nice interest rates now may
:12:05. > :12:11.find that it is not like that in a few months time. The point John
:12:12. > :12:15.Major was making implicitly was that Mrs Thatcher could speak to people
:12:16. > :12:20.on low incomes. John Major could not speak to them -- John Major could
:12:21. > :12:25.speak to them. But this coalition cannot speak to them. This idea
:12:26. > :12:32.about the reshuffle was that David Cameron wanted more Northern voices,
:12:33. > :12:38.more women, to make it look like it was not a party of seven men. When
:12:39. > :12:42.David Cameron became leader, John Major said, I do not speak very
:12:43. > :12:47.often, but when I do, I will help you, because I think you are good
:12:48. > :12:51.thing and I do not want to be like Margaret Thatcher. But that speech
:12:52. > :12:56.was clearly a lament for the party he believed that David Cameron was
:12:57. > :13:02.going to lead and create, but that isn't happening. And energy prices
:13:03. > :13:06.continue into this coming week. We have the companies going before a
:13:07. > :13:11.select committee. My information is they are sending along the secondary
:13:12. > :13:16.division, not the boss. How can they get along -- get away with that I
:13:17. > :13:21.got the letter through from British Gas this week explaining why my
:13:22. > :13:24.bills are going up, and at no point since this became a story have any
:13:25. > :13:30.of the big companies handled it well. I will have to leave it there.
:13:31. > :13:37.Make sure you pay your bill! That's it for today. The Daily Politics is
:13:38. > :13:43.back on BBC Two tomorrow. I will be back here on BBC One next Sunday.
:13:44. > :13:51.Remember, if it's Sunday, it is The Sunday Politics.