:00:40. > :00:46.The morning, folks. Welcome to the Sunday Politics. First, some Sunday
:00:47. > :00:51.morning cheer, if you are an MP, that is. You are set to get an 11%
:00:52. > :00:57.pay rise. The Chancellor has gone from zero to hero for some, who
:00:58. > :01:02.credit him for turning the economy around. We will be taking a fine
:01:03. > :01:07.tooth comb to his Autumn Statement. Should this man get a pay rise?
:01:08. > :01:14.Complete denial about the central facts... And 11% pay rise for Ed
:01:15. > :01:18.Balls? He was certainly working hard to be heard last Thursday. We will
:01:19. > :01:26.be reviewing his performance. What about this man? We will be joined by
:01:27. > :01:30.In the East Midlands, does the recovery mean it will be a happy New
:01:31. > :01:33.Year for the economy? had on the capital, its politics and
:01:34. > :01:49.those who met him. With me, three scruffy eternal
:01:50. > :01:53.students. They would celebrate if they achieved a C+. But they are all
:01:54. > :01:56.we could afford and there will be no pay rise for them. They will be
:01:57. > :01:59.glued to an electronic device throughout the programme and if we
:02:00. > :02:04.are lucky they might stop there internet shopping and tweet
:02:05. > :02:09.something intelligent. But don't hold your breath. Janan Ganesh,
:02:10. > :02:14.Helen Lewis and Nick Watt. Last week, storms were battering Britain,
:02:15. > :02:17.the East Coast was hit by the worst tidal surge in more than a century,
:02:18. > :02:21.thousands of people had to be evacuated and Nelson Mandela died.
:02:22. > :02:28.The downed the news agenda was the small matter of George Osborne's
:02:29. > :02:30.Autumn Statement. His giveaways, his takeaways and his first opportunity
:02:31. > :02:43.to announce some economic cheer. It might be winter outside, but in
:02:44. > :02:52.the studios it is awesome. Autumn Statement time. -- autumn. This is a
:02:53. > :02:55.moment of TV history. Normally when the Chancellor delivers these
:02:56. > :02:58.statements, he has to say the economy is actually a lot worse than
:02:59. > :03:02.everyone predicted. This time, he can stand up and say the economy is
:03:03. > :03:08.better than everybody predicted. A lot better.
:03:09. > :03:17.Britain is currently growing faster than any other major advanced
:03:18. > :03:22.economy. Faster than France, which is contracting, faster than Germany,
:03:23. > :03:25.faster even than America. At this Autumn Statement last year, there
:03:26. > :03:30.were repeated predictions that borrowing would go up. Instead,
:03:31. > :03:34.borrowing is down, and down significantly more than forecast.
:03:35. > :03:40.But George Osborne said the good numbers still mean more tough
:03:41. > :03:43.decisions. We will not give up in giving in our country's debts. We
:03:44. > :03:47.will not spend the money from lower borrowing. We will not squander the
:03:48. > :03:56.harder and games of the British people. -- hard earned gains. In
:03:57. > :04:01.other news, further cuts to government departments. The state
:04:02. > :04:05.pension age will increase in the 2040s, affecting people in their 40s
:04:06. > :04:10.now. There were some goodies, like discounted business rates for small
:04:11. > :04:14.businesses, free school meals for infants, favoured by the Lib Dems,
:04:15. > :04:18.and those marriage tax breaks below that by the Tories. But, as with all
:04:19. > :04:22.big fiscal events, it takes a while for the details to sink in.
:04:23. > :04:28.The marriage tax allowance is a long-standing commitment that he
:04:29. > :04:34.could not abandon. It does help those families were only one goes
:04:35. > :04:38.out to work. It does not go to higher rate taxpayers, I don't
:04:39. > :04:41.think. Perhaps it does, I can't remember. It makes me feel guilty, I
:04:42. > :04:47.am taking them very seriously, but... Shall I give you them? There
:04:48. > :04:52.is the Autumn Statement. Have that, a free gift from the Sunday
:04:53. > :04:58.Politics. Is there no limit to the generosity of the BBC?
:04:59. > :05:04.In the meantime, Twitter was awash with unflattering pictures of a
:05:05. > :05:10.red-faced Ed Balls giving his response. Some pictures were more
:05:11. > :05:15.than flattering than others. Is Ed Balls OK? Should we be worrying
:05:16. > :05:19.about him? He looks very stressed. There is nothing to worry about in
:05:20. > :05:22.terms of Ed balls and his analysis. He and Ed Miliband have been setting
:05:23. > :05:30.the pace in terms of the focus on the living standards crisis. It was
:05:31. > :05:34.very telling that there was not a mention of living standards last
:05:35. > :05:38.time, we got 12 mentions this time. Never mind what he was saying, by
:05:39. > :05:45.now everybody has a copy of the all-important paperwork. Time to
:05:46. > :05:49.hand over to number cruncher extraordinaire Paul Johnson from the
:05:50. > :05:52.Institute for Fiscal Studies. Of course it means that things are
:05:53. > :05:55.significantly better this year and next than we thought they would be
:05:56. > :05:59.just nine months ago. That has got to be good news. But it is also
:06:00. > :06:03.worth looking at the growth figures a few years out. They have been
:06:04. > :06:11.revised down a little bit. The reason is, the view of the office of
:06:12. > :06:14.budget response ability is that the long run has not really changed very
:06:15. > :06:18.much. We are getting a bit more growth now, but their view is that
:06:19. > :06:21.it is at the cost of a little bit of the growth we will expect in the
:06:22. > :06:26.years after the next general election. As the day draws to a
:06:27. > :06:29.close, the one place there has definitely been no growth is the
:06:30. > :06:39.graphics budget of my colleague, Robert Preston. It's as good as it
:06:40. > :06:43.gets these days, I don't think the viewers will mind. It's very Sunday
:06:44. > :06:51.Politics, if I might say. That is very worrying.
:06:52. > :06:56.Was this a watershed for George Osborne? Was it a watershed for Ed
:06:57. > :07:00.Balls? We can all make the case that it is the wrong sort of recovery, a
:07:01. > :07:04.consumer led recovery. People are spending money they don't have. At
:07:05. > :07:08.the end of the day, it for George Osborne, it is growth, the first
:07:09. > :07:12.time he has been able to talk about growth. It allows him to control the
:07:13. > :07:16.baseline, the fiscal debate for the next generation. For Ed Balls,
:07:17. > :07:20.nearly not a good performance. But don't write this man off. Judging by
:07:21. > :07:29.Twitter, Iain Dale, no friend of it all is, said he did a good interview
:07:30. > :07:33.this morning on a rival TV channel. I feel the fact that the Tories hate
:07:34. > :07:40.Ed Balls so passionately is probably a good reason that they should hang
:07:41. > :07:43.onto him, in that Labour sends his effectiveness. May be the Tories
:07:44. > :07:49.hope that they hold on to him as well? A lot of people shouting at
:07:50. > :07:52.someone and mocking their speech impediment, that is politics that
:07:53. > :07:55.doesn't make me want to engage. The takeaway will be lots of people
:07:56. > :08:00.thinking that none of these people are people they like. Who is the
:08:01. > :08:06.main heckler on the Labour front bench West remarked I suppose he
:08:07. > :08:09.can't cast any stones. It would be easier to sympathise with him, if it
:08:10. > :08:15.were not that David Cameron went through a similar situation and John
:08:16. > :08:23.Bercow did not step in to stop the wall of noise. It was guaranteed a
:08:24. > :08:26.good happen to a Labour politician. It's painful to remove him because
:08:27. > :08:34.he had a Parliamentary following and he will kick up a fuss. I think he's
:08:35. > :08:38.much more pragmatic on issues like business than Ed Miliband. I'm told
:08:39. > :08:45.he wasn't keen on the energy price freeze. The problem with Ed Balls,
:08:46. > :08:48.to have the first words that you say, the Chancellor is in denial,
:08:49. > :08:54.after he is presiding over growth, it means nobody is listening to you.
:08:55. > :08:58.Who would replace him? Certainly not Alistair Darling, the side of the
:08:59. > :09:02.referendum and even afterwards. Ed Balls did get a roasting in the
:09:03. > :09:05.press and on Twitter. He seemed to disappear from public view following
:09:06. > :09:08.the Autumn Statement. But a little bird tells me he managed one
:09:09. > :09:12.interview this morning before he went off to an all-important piano
:09:13. > :09:16.recital this afternoon. Watch out, Jools Holland, he could be after
:09:17. > :09:21.your job. How bad was his performance on Thursday? Here is the
:09:22. > :09:28.Shadow Chancellor in action. The Chancellor is incomplete denial
:09:29. > :09:32.about the central facts that are defining this government in office.
:09:33. > :09:42.He used to say he would balance the books in 2015. Now he wants us to
:09:43. > :09:50.congratulate him for saying he will do it in 2019, Mr Speaker. With this
:09:51. > :09:54.government, it is clearly not just the badgers that move the goalposts.
:09:55. > :10:07.No mention of the universal credit in the statement. IDS, in deep
:10:08. > :10:10.shambles, Mr Speaker. Chris Leslie is the Shadow Chief Secretary to the
:10:11. > :10:18.Treasury. He is Ed Balls's deputy, in other words. Why do more and more
:10:19. > :10:23.of your Labour colleagues think that your boss is below the water line?
:10:24. > :10:28.I'm not sure I accept the premise of your suggestion. I don't think my
:10:29. > :10:32.colleagues believe that George Osborne has a superior argument. I
:10:33. > :10:36.think Ed Balls will certainly trying his best, loud and clear, to make
:10:37. > :10:39.the case there is a cost of living crisis in this country and the
:10:40. > :10:44.Chancellor doesn't understand this. That was essentially the heat of the
:10:45. > :10:48.debate on the Autumn Statement day. One leading Labour MPs said to me
:10:49. > :10:52.that Ed Balls is always looking back, fixated with the rear-view
:10:53. > :10:56.mirror, that was the exact quote. A Labour MP told Sky News, Labour has
:10:57. > :11:02.a strong argument to make, unfortunately it was not made well
:11:03. > :11:10.in the chamber today. Quoting the Daily Mail, this is two poor
:11:11. > :11:17.performances. A quote that I can't use because it uses too many four
:11:18. > :11:21.letter words. Baroness Armstrong, speaking at Progress, a former
:11:22. > :11:24.Labour Cabinet minister, we are not sufficiently concerned about public
:11:25. > :11:28.spending, how we would pay for what we are talking about. Quite a
:11:29. > :11:34.battering? There were two sets of quotes you were giving. The couple
:11:35. > :11:38.were about the strategy for tackling public expenditure. I think it's
:11:39. > :11:43.fair that we talk about that. The rest were pretty unattributed,
:11:44. > :11:55.nameless sources. You have never given and of the record briefing? We
:11:56. > :11:58.have conversations off camera, but I don't think you have a wealth of
:11:59. > :12:04.evidence to say that somehow Ed Balls's arguments were wrong. He was
:12:05. > :12:08.making the point that, ultimately, it is a government that does not
:12:09. > :12:12.have its finger on the pulse about what most of your viewers are
:12:13. > :12:16.concerned about, that wages are being squeezed and prices are
:12:17. > :12:19.getting higher and higher. You have had time to study the Autumn
:12:20. > :12:29.Statement. What part of it does Labour disagree with? It is a very
:12:30. > :12:32.big question. I think the overall strategy the Autumn Statement is
:12:33. > :12:36.setting out does not deal with the fundamental problems in the economy.
:12:37. > :12:40.What measures do you disagree with? A lot of it is the absence of
:12:41. > :12:43.measures we would have put in if we were doing the Autumn Statement. If
:12:44. > :12:47.you are going to deal with the cost of living crisis, you have got to
:12:48. > :12:52.get productivity levels up in our society. One of the best ways of
:12:53. > :12:56.doing that is on infrastructure. We believe in bringing forward 's
:12:57. > :13:01.investment and housing, getting some of the fundamentals right in our
:13:02. > :13:13.economy. By planting, the business lending we have to do. We have seen
:13:14. > :13:16.a lamentable failing. There are big structural reforms that we need.
:13:17. > :13:21.Ultimately, the public are concerned about the cost of living crisis.
:13:22. > :13:25.That has got to be childcare help, a 10p starting rate of tax. Above
:13:26. > :13:30.all, and energy price freeze, which still this government are refusing
:13:31. > :13:36.to do. On Friday, you told me you supported the principle of a welfare
:13:37. > :13:39.cap. But you change bling claim the Chancellor's cap included pensions.
:13:40. > :13:45.You have now seen the figures, and it does not include pensions,
:13:46. > :13:50.correct? We do want a welfare cap. The government have said they are
:13:51. > :13:54.going to put more detail on this in the March budget. But it does not
:13:55. > :14:00.include pensions? We think they have a short term approach to the welfare
:14:01. > :14:04.cap. They put in some pension benefits. The state pension is not
:14:05. > :14:10.in the short-term plan because, as we believe, a triple lock is a good
:14:11. > :14:13.idea. In the longer term, if you are talking about structural welfare
:14:14. > :14:15.issues, you do have to think about pensions because they have to be
:14:16. > :14:20.sustainable if we are living longer. I think that is about the
:14:21. > :14:26.careful management. Let me show you what Ed Balls said on this programme
:14:27. > :14:29.at the start of the summer. As for pensioners, I think this is a real
:14:30. > :14:34.question. George Osborne is going to announce his cap in two weeks time.
:14:35. > :14:38.I don't know if he will exclude pension spending or including. Our
:14:39. > :14:43.plan is to include it. Pension spending would be included in the
:14:44. > :14:47.welfare cap? That is our plan, exactly what I just said. Over the
:14:48. > :14:53.long-term, if you have a serious welfare cap structural welfare
:14:54. > :14:56.issues, over 20, 30, 40 year period, you can't say that we will
:14:57. > :15:03.not work and pensions as part of that. Pensions would be part of the
:15:04. > :15:11.Labour cap? In the longer term. What is the longer term? If you win 2015?
:15:12. > :15:14.We want to stick with the triple lock on the pension, that is the
:15:15. > :15:18.Government approach to their short-term welfare cap. In the
:15:19. > :15:24.longer term, for example, on the winter fuel allowance, we should not
:15:25. > :15:28.necessarily be... There are lots of benefits... I understand that, I am
:15:29. > :15:33.talking about the basic state pension, is that part of your
:15:34. > :15:43.welfare cap or not? In a 20, 30, 40 year frame... Even you will not be
:15:44. > :15:48.around in government, then. You are writing me off already. You have to
:15:49. > :15:51.focus on welfare changes, pensions have to be affordable as part of
:15:52. > :15:56.that. It's dangerous to say, well, if you are going to have a serious
:15:57. > :16:01.welfare cap, we should not look at pensions cost. It would be
:16:02. > :16:07.irresponsible. Will pensions be part of the cap from 2015 until 2020 if
:16:08. > :16:15.Labour is in power? In our long-term cap we have to make sure... I'm
:16:16. > :16:17.talking about 2015-16. We haven't seen the proposition the Government
:16:18. > :16:30.has put before us. You claim people of ?1600 worse off
:16:31. > :16:35.under the coalition. That is true when you compare to pay and prices.
:16:36. > :16:40.Can you confirm that calculation does not include the ?700 tax cut
:16:41. > :16:45.from raising the income tax threshold, huge savings on mortgages
:16:46. > :16:49.because of low interest or the freezing of council tax? It doesn't
:16:50. > :16:54.include the tax and benefit changes. If you do want to look at
:16:55. > :17:01.those, last year, the ISS said they could be making people worse off. It
:17:02. > :17:10.might not include those factors. The VAT increase, tax credit cuts, child
:17:11. > :17:14.benefit cuts, they all add up. My understanding is that the ISS
:17:15. > :17:20.figures have said people are ?891 worse off if you look at the tax and
:17:21. > :17:26.benefit changes since 2010. You have to look at wages and prices. The ISS
:17:27. > :17:30.confirmed our approach was broadly the right way of assessing what is
:17:31. > :17:37.happening. The Chancellor was saying, real household disposable
:17:38. > :17:43.incomes are rising. He is completely out of touch. Can you sum up the
:17:44. > :17:48.macro economic policy for Labour? Invest in the future, make sure we
:17:49. > :17:51.have the right approach for the long-term politicking. Tackle the
:17:52. > :17:54.cost of living crisis people are facing.
:17:55. > :18:00.Now, let's talk to the Financial Secretary to the Treasury, Sajid
:18:01. > :18:07.Javid. Discovery, underpinned by rising
:18:08. > :18:12.house prices, increasing personal debt, do you accept that is
:18:13. > :18:17.unsustainable? I accept the OBE are also said the
:18:18. > :18:26.reason why this country is facing more these challenges -- OBR.
:18:27. > :18:32.That is because we went through a Labour recession, the worst we have
:18:33. > :18:38.seen in 100 years. But do you accept that a recovery underpinned by these
:18:39. > :18:43.things I have just read out isn't sustainable? We set out a long-term
:18:44. > :18:49.plan for recovery, and again this week. We have shown with the tough
:18:50. > :18:53.decisions we have made already, the country can enjoy a recovery. There
:18:54. > :18:59.are still a lot of difficult decisions. The biggest risk are
:19:00. > :19:08.Labour's plans. The March projections work at for those -- for
:19:09. > :19:14.both business investment and exports. Suddenly it is expected to
:19:15. > :19:19.rise 5% next year, a 10% turnaround in investment. How is it credible? I
:19:20. > :19:23.have been in business before politics. Any business person
:19:24. > :19:29.listening will know, when you have gone through a recession, the
:19:30. > :19:34.deepest in 100 years, it will hit investment, profits, you can't make
:19:35. > :19:37.plans again until you have confidence in the economy. That is
:19:38. > :19:47.what this country is seeing now under this government. This is an
:19:48. > :19:52.assumption made independently. The fall in business investment is
:19:53. > :19:58.because of the recession. The forecast increases, 5% next year,
:19:59. > :20:04.and so on, it is based on the independent forecast. Based on fact.
:20:05. > :20:13.If you look at the investment plans of companies, this week, the
:20:14. > :20:17.Chancellor went to JCB, Jaguar Land Rover has plans to create more
:20:18. > :20:22.jobs, these investment plans are coming through now because of the
:20:23. > :20:25.confidence generated by this government, such as the cut in
:20:26. > :20:33.corporation tax which Labour would increase. Are the export forecasts
:20:34. > :20:39.more credible? The 15 years, our share of world trade decline.
:20:40. > :20:45.Suddenly starting next year, it stops falling. That's not credible.
:20:46. > :20:53.I worked in finance the 20 years. I have yet to find any forecast which
:20:54. > :20:58.is fully right. Under Labour, we would have forecasts made by Gordon
:20:59. > :21:02.Brown who would announce he would hit all his targets. Now we have an
:21:03. > :21:10.independent system. Do you accept, if exports or
:21:11. > :21:15.business investment do not pick up, then a purely consumer led recovery
:21:16. > :21:19.is not sustainable? We need more than a consumer led recovery. We
:21:20. > :21:26.need consumer investment to go up. On Xbox, it is noticeable that
:21:27. > :21:31.experts are primarily down because the markets we trade with, the
:21:32. > :21:35.eurozone markets, are depressed. Many have just come out of
:21:36. > :21:43.recession. Or they are still in recession. If you look at exports to
:21:44. > :21:50.non-EU countries, they are up 30%. 120% to China. 100% to Russia.
:21:51. > :21:58.Will you keep the triple lock for the state pension beyond 2015? Yes,
:21:59. > :22:02.long term. That's why it is not part of our welfare cap. Chris Leslie
:22:03. > :22:11.cannot answer that question. It is straightforward.
:22:12. > :22:17.House prices are now rising ten times faster than average earnings.
:22:18. > :22:23.That's not good. House prices are rising, partly reflecting recovery.
:22:24. > :22:27.Ten times faster than average earnings, how can people afford to
:22:28. > :22:32.buy homes if it carries on? What you would hope, this is the evidence, if
:22:33. > :22:39.you look at the plans of the month companies, they are planning new
:22:40. > :22:43.homes which will mean that, as this demand spurs that investment, more
:22:44. > :22:47.homes will come about. We need to give people the means to buy those
:22:48. > :23:35.homes. We have introduced the help to buy scheme. I accept the OBR says
:23:36. > :23:51.it will start rising again but as household debt rises again Petr Cech
:23:52. > :23:56.reduces, -- as household debt reduces, we need to make sure there
:23:57. > :24:01.are checks in place. Wages have not been rising in real terms for quite
:24:02. > :24:16.some time. Over the next five years, even as the economy grows, by about
:24:17. > :24:22.15% according the OBR to the OBR -- but people will not benefit. These
:24:23. > :24:28.hard-working families will not share in the recovery. What is the best
:24:29. > :24:33.way to help those families? The government doesn't set wages. What
:24:34. > :24:42.we can do is influence the overall economy. We don't have a magic
:24:43. > :24:46.lever. Wages have been stagnating for five years. When will people get
:24:47. > :24:53.a proper salary? The best way for wage growth is a growing economy,
:24:54. > :24:58.more jobs. We have more people employed in Britain today than at
:24:59. > :25:04.any time in our history. The biggest risk to recovery is if we let Labour
:25:05. > :25:07.into the Treasury with more spending and more debt. Which got us into
:25:08. > :25:15.this trouble. By whatever measure you care to choose, would people be
:25:16. > :25:22.better off come the 20 15th election than they were in 2010? Yes, they
:25:23. > :25:27.will be. Look at jobs. Already more people employed than at any other
:25:28. > :25:31.time in history. Will they be better off? The best way for anyone to
:25:32. > :25:38.raise their living standards is access to a growing job market. But
:25:39. > :25:46.will they be better off? I believe people will be. Compared to 2010.
:25:47. > :25:49.Yes. In terms of take-home pay. This is a credible measure.
:25:50. > :25:54.Now, what do you think the Education Secretary, Michael Gove, was like at
:25:55. > :25:57.school? Hard-working? Hand always up? Top of the class? Well, if he
:25:58. > :26:01.wasn't passionate about education then, he is now. In fact, since he
:26:02. > :26:08.took office, it seems he hasn't stopped working very hard indeed.
:26:09. > :26:11.When the coalition came to power, Michael Gove evoked Mao, saying they
:26:12. > :26:15.were on a long march to reform education. Just like Mao, they faced
:26:16. > :26:21.a baby boom, so pledged ?5 billion for new school places. They extended
:26:22. > :26:25.Labour's academy programme. There's now about 3,000 in England. But
:26:26. > :26:28.then, they marched even further, creating free schools run by
:26:29. > :26:35.parents, funded by taxpayers. 174 have opened so far. The schools
:26:36. > :26:38.admission code was changed, to give parents more choice.
:26:39. > :26:41.And a pupil premium was introduced, currently, an extra ?900 funding for
:26:42. > :26:46.each disadvantaged child. An overhaul of the national
:26:47. > :26:50.curriculum provoked criticism. Chairman Gove mocked detractors as
:26:51. > :26:56."bad academia". But exam reforms didn't quite go to plan. Although
:26:57. > :27:00.GCSEs got harder, plans to replace A-levels had to be abandoned.
:27:01. > :27:05.Ultimately, the true test of these reforms will be what happens in the
:27:06. > :27:09.classroom. The person in charge of making sure those classrooms are up
:27:10. > :27:11.to scratch in England is the Chief Inspector Of Schools, head of
:27:12. > :27:17.Ofsted, Michael Wilshaw, who joins me now.
:27:18. > :27:22.Over the past 15 years, we have doubled spending on schools even
:27:23. > :27:27.allowing for inflation. By international standards, we are
:27:28. > :27:32.stagnating, why? I said last year that mediocrity had settled into the
:27:33. > :27:43.system. Too many children were coasting in schools, which is why we
:27:44. > :27:49.changed the grading structure, we removed that awful word,
:27:50. > :27:52.satisfactory. Saying that good is now the only acceptable standard and
:27:53. > :27:55.schools had a limited time in which to get to that. We are seeing
:27:56. > :28:00.gradually, it is difficult to say this in the week we have had the
:28:01. > :28:07.OECD report. Things have gradually improved. I will come onto that in a
:28:08. > :28:12.minute. Explain this. International comparisons show us flat-lining or
:28:13. > :28:17.even falling in some subjects, including science. For 20 years, our
:28:18. > :28:22.domestic exam results just got better and better. Was this a piece
:28:23. > :28:26.of fiction fed to us by the educational establishment, was there
:28:27. > :28:32.a cover-up? There is no question there has grade inflation. I speak
:28:33. > :28:37.as an ex-headteacher who saw that in examinations. Perceptual state is
:28:38. > :28:47.actually doing something about that. Most good heads will say that is
:28:48. > :28:52.about time. We have to be credible. Do politicians and educationalists
:28:53. > :28:57.conspire in this grade inflation? It might suit politicians to say things
:28:58. > :29:01.are going up every year. As a head, I knew a lot of the exams youngsters
:29:02. > :29:10.were sitting were not up to scratch. The latest OECD study places us 36th
:29:11. > :29:16.for maths, 23rd reading, slipping down to 21st in science. Yet,
:29:17. > :29:21.Ofsted, your organisation, designates 80% of schools as good or
:29:22. > :29:26.outstanding. That's another fiction. This year, we have. If we see this
:29:27. > :29:28.level of progress, it has been a remarkable progress over the last
:29:29. > :29:35.years since we changed our grading structure, then... In a year,
:29:36. > :29:41.absolutely. We have better teachers coming into our school system.
:29:42. > :29:44.Better leaders. Better schools. The big challenge for our country is
:29:45. > :29:45.making sure that progress is maintained which will eventually
:29:46. > :29:56.translate into better outcomes. These figures are pretty much
:29:57. > :30:00.up-to-date. Are you saying within a year 80% of the schools are good
:30:01. > :30:06.enough? All of the schools we upgraded have had better grades in
:30:07. > :30:10.GCSE and grade 2. We have to make sure that is maintained. The
:30:11. > :30:14.Government has based its reforms on similar reforms in Sweden. In
:30:15. > :30:18.opposition they were endlessly going to Stockholm to find out how it was
:30:19. > :30:25.done. Swedish schools are doing even worse than ours in the tables. Why
:30:26. > :30:30.are we copying failure? The secretary of state believes, and I
:30:31. > :30:35.actually believe, as somebody who has come from an academy model, that
:30:36. > :30:38.if you hand power and resources, you hand autonomy to the people on the
:30:39. > :30:43.ground, to the people in the classroom, in the corridors, in the
:30:44. > :30:48.playgrounds, things work. If you allow the great monoliths that used
:30:49. > :30:53.to have responsibility for education in the past to take control again,
:30:54. > :30:56.you will see a reverse in standards. You have got to actually empower
:30:57. > :31:01.those people that make the difference. That is why autonomy and
:31:02. > :31:04.freedom is important. We spent a lot of money moving what were local
:31:05. > :31:08.authority schools to become academies and new free school czar
:31:09. > :31:12.being set up as well. When the academies are pretty much the same
:31:13. > :31:16.level of autonomy, the free school is maybe a little bit more, the
:31:17. > :31:20.evidence we have had so far is that they don't really perform any better
:31:21. > :31:26.than local authority schools? Indeed, Encore GCSE subjects, they
:31:27. > :31:29.might even be doing worse? These are early days. We will say more about
:31:30. > :31:33.this on weapons they when we produce the annual report. The sponsored
:31:34. > :31:37.academies that took over the worst schools in the country, in the most
:31:38. > :31:43.difficult circumstances, in the most disadvantaged communities, are doing
:31:44. > :31:50.much better now. What about GCSE? They are doing GCSE equivalents, the
:31:51. > :31:55.lass academic subjects question my cull OK, but they are doing better
:31:56. > :32:00.than previous schools. If you look at the top performing nations in the
:32:01. > :32:10.world, they focus on the quality of teaching. The best graduates coming
:32:11. > :32:13.to education. They professionally develop them. They make sure they
:32:14. > :32:18.spot the brightest talents and get them into positions as soon as
:32:19. > :32:24.possible. We have got to do the same if we are going to catch up with
:32:25. > :32:28.those jurisdictions. This isn't just a British problem. It seems to be a
:32:29. > :32:31.European problem. The East Asian countries now dominate the top of
:32:32. > :32:36.the tables. What's the most important lesson we should learn
:32:37. > :32:40.from East Asia? Attitudes to work. We need to make sure that we invest
:32:41. > :32:46.in good teachers, good leaders. We have to make sure that students have
:32:47. > :32:51.the right attitudes to work. It's no good getting good people into the
:32:52. > :32:54.classroom and then seeing them part of teaching by bad behaviour,
:32:55. > :33:02.disaffected youngsters and poor leadership. We see young teachers
:33:03. > :33:06.doing well for a time and then being put off teaching and leaving from
:33:07. > :33:09.that sort of culture in our schools. Are you a cheerleader for government
:33:10. > :33:14.education policy rather than independent inspectors? I am
:33:15. > :33:20.independent, Ofsted is independent. I believe we are saying the right
:33:21. > :33:24.things on standards. The Association of teachers and lecturers say you
:33:25. > :33:28.are an arm of government. The NUT has called for your resignation.
:33:29. > :33:32.Another wants to abolish or Inspectorate. Have you become a
:33:33. > :33:37.pariah amongst teaching unions? If we are challenging schools to become
:33:38. > :33:43.better, that is our job, we will carry on doing that. I am not going
:33:44. > :33:46.to preside over the status quo. We will challenge the system to do
:33:47. > :33:50.better, we will challenge schools and colleges to do better. We will
:33:51. > :33:54.also challenge government when we think they are going wrong. Many
:33:55. > :33:57.people in the education establishment think your primary
:33:58. > :34:04.purpose is to do the Government's bidding by shepherding schools into
:34:05. > :34:09.becoming academies. Not true at all. You are a big supporter of
:34:10. > :34:12.academies? Yes, I believe the people that do the business in schools are
:34:13. > :34:16.the people that are free to do what is necessary to raise standards. I
:34:17. > :34:24.am a big supporter of autonomy in the school system. But where we see
:34:25. > :34:30.academies Vale, where we see free schools fail, we will say so. The
:34:31. > :34:36.study does not find much evidence that competition and choice raise
:34:37. > :34:39.standards, but it does go with you and say that strong school
:34:40. > :34:43.leadership, coupled with autonomy, can make a difference. Can somebody
:34:44. > :34:48.with no experience in education be in charge of a school? A lot of hot
:34:49. > :34:51.air has been expounded on the issue of whether teachers should be
:34:52. > :34:54.qualified or not. If qualified teacher status was the gold
:34:55. > :35:03.standard, why is it that one in three teachers, one in three lessons
:35:04. > :35:07.that will observe are not good enough. Taught by qualified
:35:08. > :35:11.teachers. I've not yet met a headteacher that has not appointed
:35:12. > :35:15.by qualified staff when they cannot get qualified teachers. Their job is
:35:16. > :35:19.to make sure they get accredited as soon as possible and come up to
:35:20. > :35:24.scratch in the classroom. Do you support the use of unqualified
:35:25. > :35:28.teachers? I do. I have done it. If I could not get a maths, physics or
:35:29. > :35:30.modern languages teacher and I thought somebody straight from
:35:31. > :35:33.university, without qualified teachers start this, that they could
:35:34. > :35:37.communicate well with youngsters, I would get that person into the
:35:38. > :35:42.classroom and get them accredited if they delivered the goods. If we are
:35:43. > :35:45.going to allow schools to have more autonomy and not be accountable to
:35:46. > :35:51.local authorities, free schools academies, don't you have to do...
:35:52. > :35:55.New entrants will be coming into the market, the educational marketplace.
:35:56. > :36:03.Do you not have to act more quickly when it is clear, and there has been
:36:04. > :36:07.examined recently, where it is clearly going badly wrong and
:36:08. > :36:11.children's education at risk? Absolutely. I made a point to the
:36:12. > :36:14.secretary of state and it is something I will talk more about
:36:15. > :36:17.over the coming year. We need to be in school is much more often. If a
:36:18. > :36:22.school fails at the moment, or underperforms, goes into this new
:36:23. > :36:27.category, Her Majesty 's inspectors stay with that institution until it
:36:28. > :36:32.improves. Sometimes we don't see a school for five or seven years. That
:36:33. > :36:35.is wrong. My argument is that Ofsted should pay a much greater part in
:36:36. > :36:40.monitoring the performance of schools between those inspections.
:36:41. > :36:46.Are you enjoying it? It is a tough job. Are you enjoying it? This is a
:36:47. > :36:52.tough job, but I enjoy it. Sometimes.
:36:53. > :36:56.You are watching Sunday Politics. Coming up in just over 20 minutes,
:36:57. > :37:13.Diane Abbott will be joining us. And we
:37:14. > :37:21.Will it be a Merry Christmas or are hundreds facing a cold winter at
:37:22. > :37:29.food banks? We hear from a businessman. We are taking our
:37:30. > :37:32.employees from 75 to 180, we are on course for our plan regardless of
:37:33. > :37:34.the 0 course for our plan regardless of
:37:35. > :37:40.the recession. Who is making their shopping is Fairtrade? It is not
:37:41. > :37:44.expensive than normal products. I would if it was cheaper. I believe
:37:45. > :37:46.in helping third 0 would if it was cheaper. I believe
:37:47. > :37:50.in helping third World countries and supporting local communities. Hello,
:37:51. > :37:53.I'm Marie Ashby and my guests today are two of the region's most high
:37:54. > :37:56.profile MPs. Anna Soubry is the Conservative MP for Broxtowe and a
:37:57. > :38:00.defence minister and the Nottingham East MP, Chris Leslie, who's
:38:01. > :38:04.Labour's shadow Treasury spokesman. Well, we're all winding down for
:38:05. > :38:08.Christmas and for our MPs, not long to go. You break up a week on
:38:09. > :38:15.Friday. And next year you've only got 145 days in the House of
:38:16. > :38:24.Commons. Sitting days. We feel strongly about this. We work all of
:38:25. > :38:29.the time. I work seven days a week. I am sure that Chris does. It is a
:38:30. > :38:34.great myth that if the house isn't sitting, we are not working.
:38:35. > :38:40.Tomorrow I was meant to be doing defence questions but the house is
:38:41. > :38:45.sitting to pay tribute to Nelson Mandela. We have this flexibility
:38:46. > :38:51.and early on Chris said we will be re`called in the summer. It used to
:38:52. > :38:56.be the case when there was not so much scrutiny that some MPs would go
:38:57. > :39:01.to the Bahamas for a month. Nowadays, especially with smart
:39:02. > :39:07.technology, people can drop as e`mails all of the time. And we see
:39:08. > :39:11.it in real`time. Even though Parliament will not be sitting over
:39:12. > :39:24.Christmas, we are going through the e`mails, up cases. So, what will you
:39:25. > :39:30.be doing? Constituency work. It is a combination, some of it is not as
:39:31. > :39:34.great as other bits. There are parts of the constituency work which I
:39:35. > :39:42.enjoy doing, casework getting results. It is so rewarding and it
:39:43. > :39:49.is fantastic. On the frontbenchers, we have this battle of ideas which
:39:50. > :39:55.never stops. We are on duty rotor through the holiday season. Margaret
:39:56. > :40:00.Beckett told us it was the lightest schedule she has seen for
:40:01. > :40:05.legislation. That is different. This is the first five`year parliament we
:40:06. > :40:10.have had, I do not think the government have brought enough
:40:11. > :40:17.legislation forward. More marginal deceit, it tends to be the more
:40:18. > :40:22.stuff you get which means the more work `` marginal the seat. The
:40:23. > :40:31.workload is not the same in the marginals. Chris has more experience
:40:32. > :40:37.of Parliament than I do but the number of e`mails is phenomenal. I
:40:38. > :40:38.get the picture that 0 number of e`mails is phenomenal. I
:40:39. > :40:38.get the picture that you are 0 number of e`mails is phenomenal. I
:40:39. > :40:49.get the picture that you are working hard. It is one of the big set
:40:50. > :40:52.pieces of the Autumn statement. And George Osborne used it to paint a
:40:53. > :40:55.rosy picture of the economy, with growth forecasts up and borrowing
:40:56. > :40:58.coming down. But Labour says ordinary people aren't benefiting
:40:59. > :41:02.from any growth. So how does it feel for those on different sides of the
:41:03. > :41:07.economic divide here in the East Midlands?
:41:08. > :41:10.Will it be a Merry Christmas and happy New Year when it comes to jobs
:41:11. > :41:16.and prosperity, one Derbyshire business think so. They are moving
:41:17. > :41:20.to new purpose`built premises and looking to take on workers. The
:41:21. > :41:26.company makes carbon fibre parts for the car industry, we spoke to the
:41:27. > :41:30.owner this time last year and he was pessimistic about the outlook but
:41:31. > :41:40.now he is looking forward to expanding. We have a 6`5p project, a
:41:41. > :41:44.loan from a lending fund and we are paying interest and alone will be
:41:45. > :41:52.spun back into the economy and the council can find reinvestment. We
:41:53. > :41:56.will spend the money on planting equipment and upscaling. The order
:41:57. > :41:59.but is there, we have 0 equipment and upscaling. The order
:42:00. > :42:04.but is there, we have three new customers next year, we have done an
:42:05. > :42:11.exhibition and we have been lucky to win an MoD military application and
:42:12. > :42:11.the facility is three times bigger. We 0
:42:12. > :42:18.the facility is three times bigger. We are taking the staff up to 180.
:42:19. > :42:22.We are on course regardless of the recession. Minor said to the
:42:23. > :42:31.Treasury is keep your hand on the tiller, do not let go. Keep things
:42:32. > :42:38.simple, keep it consistent `` my advice to the Treasury. Not everyone
:42:39. > :42:43.has a positive outlook. At the food bank may have had their busiest
:42:44. > :42:50.week. They are preparing for a busy Christmas and see no sign of a
:42:51. > :42:54.growing economy improving incomes. It can be ordinary families that are
:42:55. > :43:01.finding they haven't got enough to make ends meet. Over the summer
:43:02. > :43:08.holidays, families where children get free school meals could not feed
:43:09. > :43:12.the children. We have had supply teachers who have not had enough
:43:13. > :43:17.work, no work over the summer and their income has dried up. They have
:43:18. > :43:23.not been able to get by. That is working people that are not able to
:43:24. > :43:26.manage. One of the realities is throughout the recession those who
:43:27. > :43:31.have had more money have continued to have an increase in income, those
:43:32. > :43:39.who have not had enough have got worse. One of the huge effects of
:43:40. > :43:43.the recession is the extent to which local authorities have cut local
:43:44. > :43:48.services to support local people and that has had a massive impact on
:43:49. > :43:56.ordinary people who need support and it's been taken away altogether. The
:43:57. > :43:57.Hope Nottingham food bank is in your constituency ` even if 0
:43:58. > :43:59.Hope Nottingham food bank is in your constituency ` even if the economy
:44:00. > :44:02.is improving, there are still hundreds of people relying on
:44:03. > :44:12.charity to eat they're not seeing any benefit in the upturn. No, the
:44:13. > :44:19.reality is we have always had people in society who are not as well off
:44:20. > :44:25.as others and that ever we have had people who are poor, it is the why
:44:26. > :44:32.`` it is why some people come into politics. Food banks have never been
:44:33. > :44:36.busier. With food banks who do a fabulous `` fabulous thing, they
:44:37. > :44:38.also grew under the 0 fabulous `` fabulous thing, they
:44:39. > :44:45.also grew under the last government. Food banks have increased and they
:44:46. > :44:51.are more popular and more widely known. You make it sound like a good
:44:52. > :44:57.thing. They are doing a fantastic job, that is the good thing. Whether
:44:58. > :45:02.there is more need out there is something to debate. You don't solve
:45:03. > :45:11.those problems by not increasing business so... It is about creating
:45:12. > :45:14.jobs. The businessman we saw there is creating jobs, he's getting new
:45:15. > :45:17.premises thanks to government funding ` the economy is growing
:45:18. > :45:20.again, he's happy about it and it's difficult for you to argue
:45:21. > :45:25.otherwise? Let's hope that when we see a recovery that everybody gets a
:45:26. > :45:29.fair crack of the whip. On the Labour side we are concerned there
:45:30. > :45:33.is complacency in the Conservatives, George Osborne doesn't understand
:45:34. > :45:39.that for most people life is harder and the Institute for Fiscal Studies
:45:40. > :45:47.say that household incomes will be squeezed very much more considerably
:45:48. > :45:52.by the next election. But many new workers will feel the benefit. The
:45:53. > :45:57.worry is it is turning out to be a recovery for the few and those who
:45:58. > :46:10.are already wealthy but the cost of living squeeze is continuing. The
:46:11. > :46:12.jobs that are going to be created at that business are not jobs for the
:46:13. > :46:13.rich, 0 that business are not jobs for the
:46:14. > :46:26.rich, they are jobs for ordinary people. Youth unemployment, up 127%.
:46:27. > :46:32.I wasn't interrupting you. We are doing good work on use. We have
:46:33. > :46:37.abolished national insurance for Under`21s. We are talking about
:46:38. > :46:39.hard`working people. There are hard`working people, 0
:46:40. > :46:45.hard`working people. There are hard`working people, supply
:46:46. > :46:51.teachers... People trying to do their job, supply teachers... People
:46:52. > :46:58.who go to food banks tend not to be in jobs. The majority are not in
:46:59. > :47:03.work. We are desperately trying to make sure you are better off in work
:47:04. > :47:05.than not in work, their work programmes to get people back into
:47:06. > :47:07.work and we have invested 0 programmes to get people back into
:47:08. > :47:17.work and we have invested hugely in that. You do not borrow, that is
:47:18. > :47:22.what put us into this position. The money advice and service this week
:47:23. > :47:27.said in Nottingham over 40% of people are struggling to cope with
:47:28. > :47:31.the debts they have got. They are depleting savings at the fastest
:47:32. > :47:39.rate in 40 years and the squeeze is on. They don't feel you are doing
:47:40. > :47:47.enough. In 2010, we were nearly bankrupt. Household debt... We had
:47:48. > :47:52.one of the biggest deficits... We have brought down... We have reduced
:47:53. > :47:57.the deficit by a third and if you look at the plans, we will reduce it
:47:58. > :48:01.further. The economy is improving and people might not be feeling it
:48:02. > :48:07.so much yet in their pockets but in a year as get closer to the
:48:08. > :48:12.election, it looks far better than George Osborne. It is not a problem
:48:13. > :48:16.if the economy is improving. People watching this programme need to ask
:48:17. > :48:22.themselves to they feel as though they are seeing the recovery after
:48:23. > :48:27.three long years, we have not had growth because the Chancellor pulled
:48:28. > :48:31.the rug of confidence. The lack of growth of three years has put the
:48:32. > :48:45.public finances into a deep problem, it has created a crisis.
:48:46. > :48:50.An energy price freeze, bills will go up ?70. You cannot allow the
:48:51. > :48:56.energy companies to go along without their profits being touched. Deal
:48:57. > :49:04.with the energy. We need childcare improvements.
:49:05. > :49:10.As you approach an election, the economy is on the up. It is what you
:49:11. > :49:19.want. In your constituency, people are
:49:20. > :49:25.facing... 15 hours free childcare, you cannot do a part`time job. You
:49:26. > :49:30.have to give people affordable childcare. You still have so many
:49:31. > :49:36.differences. People say your policies are the same.
:49:37. > :49:44.There are things you disagree on. We will see what happens after the
:49:45. > :49:47.election. Christmas is traditionally a time of goodwill, which could mean
:49:48. > :49:48.good news for the Fairtrade movement which aims 0
:49:49. > :49:51.good news for the Fairtrade movement which aims to give farmers and
:49:52. > :49:54.workers across the world a better deal. But with cash still short, are
:49:55. > :49:58.people tempted to buy Fairtrade or more inclined to look for a bargain?
:49:59. > :50:00.We've been to Hinckley, a Fairtrade town, to find out. And watch out for
:50:01. > :50:13.the Des Coleman Christmas jumper! A few years ago I was lucky enough
:50:14. > :50:17.to go to Ghana to speak to the Ghana to speak to the Garners who benefit
:50:18. > :50:24.from Fairtrade. Are we in the East Midlands still willing to support
:50:25. > :50:29.it? You own this coffee shop and you serve Fairtrade products.
:50:30. > :50:34.I have been in Hinckley for five years and with self edge trade
:50:35. > :50:36.because we believe in supporting the communities in the third world
:50:37. > :50:45.countries who are less fortunate than ourselves.
:50:46. > :50:50.I have come to meet a group of Fairtrade supporters. We think it's
:50:51. > :50:55.important because we have so much wealth on this side of the world and
:50:56. > :50:58.the producers very often have a raw deal.
:50:59. > :51:02.We know by supporting Fairtrade we are improving conditions for people
:51:03. > :51:07.in developing countries. We might moan about our working
:51:08. > :51:07.environment but they are nothing compared 0 0
:51:08. > :51:11.environment but they are nothing compared to people in developing
:51:12. > :51:16.countries. A common misconception is it is chocolate, tea and coffee.
:51:17. > :51:20.There are many gifts you can buy fair trade and fruit and olive oil
:51:21. > :51:27.and wine. There is more than the average tea and coffee. Are you a
:51:28. > :51:38.supporter of Fairtrade Wine? Yes, very much so!
:51:39. > :51:39.Do you buy Fairtrade? No, they are more expensive than normal
:51:40. > :51:44.practice. I would if they would treat ``
:51:45. > :51:51.cheaper. When it comes to Fairtrade, do you
:51:52. > :51:54.buy them or not? Yes. I believe in helping third World countries and
:51:55. > :51:59.supporting local communities. I do not consciously not buy it but
:52:00. > :52:01.price dictates what you buy these days. 0
:52:02. > :52:03.We're joined by Mathew Hulbert, a Liberal Democrat councillor in
:52:04. > :52:11.Hinckley and Bosworth and the council's Fairtrade champion.
:52:12. > :52:19.What does a Fairtrade champion do? I am the only one in the country.
:52:20. > :52:23.I champion of fair trade at the borough council. I speak up at
:52:24. > :52:30.council meetings, I am part of a forum of volunteers and I speak out
:52:31. > :52:37.and promote that ethical shopping is a great thing to do. A lot of people
:52:38. > :52:40.agree and say it is a great thing to do but when a look at the prices,
:52:41. > :52:48.they say it is not for them. Yes, I think the lady was echoing a
:52:49. > :52:51.misconception which is it is more expensive.
:52:52. > :52:57.Fair trade products are cheaper now, they compete very well with regular
:52:58. > :53:02.products. It used to be that you pay more under products were not as
:53:03. > :53:07.good, the coffee and other things but now the products are good, you
:53:08. > :53:11.pay a competitive price and you are helping people in the developing
:53:12. > :53:20.world. Lots of people have bought into it.
:53:21. > :53:26.Is it a good idea? My thing is that I feel strongly it
:53:27. > :53:30.is obscene when, and we all do it, we wear clothes that have been put
:53:31. > :53:30.together 0 we wear clothes that have been put
:53:31. > :53:34.together by a 0 we wear clothes that have been put
:53:35. > :53:38.together by a child and so Fairtrade clothing, if we could do that would
:53:39. > :53:42.be great. I have done Fairtrade T`shirts. It is quite hard to find
:53:43. > :53:45.and if we could make 0 T`shirts. It is quite hard to find
:53:46. > :53:51.and if we could make advances there, we would see people take that up.
:53:52. > :53:55.There are 2000 Fairtrade products. People think of bananas and tea and
:53:56. > :54:00.coffee. Consumers have a lot of power if
:54:01. > :54:07.they decide to shop in the right way, there is Fairtrade, organic
:54:08. > :54:12.purchasing but also shopping locally. Small business Saturday was
:54:13. > :54:19.yesterday and talking to local firms there is a lot of power consumers
:54:20. > :54:23.have if they think. If they are competitive and the quality is good,
:54:24. > :54:25.more people are aware of it. Some 0
:54:26. > :54:30.more people are aware of it. Some people will pay more if it
:54:31. > :54:39.means they know a child has not made that product.
:54:40. > :54:43.Some of the people were from local business networks in Hinckley who do
:54:44. > :54:47.a fantastic job in promoting local businesses, businesses were people
:54:48. > :54:53.run them from their home and they did a great job. Do you see people
:54:54. > :54:57.buying into this at Christmas and will people pay more if it is
:54:58. > :55:01.Fairtrade? I think so and we saw recently with
:55:02. > :55:05.Children in Need, people are generous in this country. Even
:55:06. > :55:10.though we are living in austerities Britain, people are prepared to help
:55:11. > :55:15.people who are more in need than they are.
:55:16. > :55:19.And we see some of these natural disasters that are reflecting the
:55:20. > :55:25.poorest parts of the world but it is not just about the emergency aid. We
:55:26. > :55:29.have to realise our economy and consumers can affect bringing them
:55:30. > :55:37.up to a more 0 consumers can affect bringing them
:55:38. > :55:41.up to a more sustainable standard. I am a proud supporter of the
:55:42. > :55:46.international aid. We talked about the economy, give us your view of a
:55:47. > :55:50.Lib Dem. I think we are growing in the East
:55:51. > :55:56.Midlands and the economy is growing. Nick Clegg said it this week, he was
:55:57. > :55:56.doing 0 Nick Clegg said it this week, he was
:55:57. > :55:58.doing a better 0 Nick Clegg said it this week, he was
:55:59. > :56:02.doing a better job at Prime Minister's Questions, it is because
:56:03. > :56:06.of the Lib Dems but we have a recovery. The government would not
:56:07. > :56:13.have a majority worried not for the Lib Dems, the pupil premium, taking
:56:14. > :56:18.millions out of tax, Chris is right to say... You are right when you say
:56:19. > :56:25.we need to do more to help the most vulnerable. I agree. So, the
:56:26. > :56:28.recovery is down to the Lib Dems. It is about to part is about two
:56:29. > :56:33.parties coming together in the national interest.
:56:34. > :56:39.We inherited a mess. We have worked well together. I will not score
:56:40. > :56:42.points against the Lib Dems because I enjoy working with the Liberal
:56:43. > :56:51.Democrats in government. I work with Norman Lamb and it is great. Would
:56:52. > :56:57.you work with the Lib Dems? I do not think the Lib Dems will be in play
:56:58. > :57:03.at the next election. There are simile broken promises.
:57:04. > :57:13.Tuition fees... No one is convinced Ed Miliband is a
:57:14. > :57:18.potential future Prime Minister. Labour are really really vicious
:57:19. > :57:24.against the Lib Dems in Parliament. The cost of living is what matters.
:57:25. > :57:26.We are getting on and doing it! Thank you for joining us.
:57:27. > :57:30.Happy Christmas. Time for a round`up of some of the
:57:31. > :57:38.other political stories in the East Midlands this week, here's Rob
:57:39. > :57:45.Pittam with 60 seconds: a former UKIP candidate for Derbyshire police
:57:46. > :57:48.and crime commission has resigned from the party.
:57:49. > :57:56.He says it is moving too far to the right. It is a claim denied by UKIP.
:57:57. > :57:59.We are attracting votes from former Tories and Labour and former Lib
:58:00. > :58:02.Dems. And especially where attracting
:58:03. > :58:06.votes from people who have not bothered to vote for a decade. The
:58:07. > :58:15.badger cull is under scrutiny in a debate called by Chris Williamson.
:58:16. > :58:18.He's been against the cult and has tabled a Westminster debate. And
:58:19. > :58:20.Leicester City Council has been given a kick in the pants from the
:58:21. > :58:23.plain English 0 given a kick in the pants from the
:58:24. > :58:26.plain English campaign for a notice on controlling dogs would set a
:58:27. > :58:31.person who habitually as a dog in his possession shall be taken to be
:58:32. > :58:35.in charge of the dog at any time unless at that time some other
:58:36. > :58:44.person is in charge of the dog. The council said it the criticism.
:58:45. > :58:51.`` it accepts the criticism. We live in hope. You could not make it up.
:58:52. > :58:55.Christmas is around the corner. What is top of the agenda? 2014, some of
:58:56. > :59:00.those difficult decisions we have taken will bear fruit more, the
:59:01. > :59:06.economy will grow, there's still a lot to be done.
:59:07. > :59:14.It is looking better than 2010. We will see the growth and add a
:59:15. > :59:19.greater rate. An optimistic look. I wish I was so optimistic. I worry it
:59:20. > :59:26.is complacent, there's a lot more to be done to help those who are the
:59:27. > :59:30.least well off in society and ordinary working people who see
:59:31. > :59:34.earnings going down while prices rise.
:59:35. > :59:40.New years resolutions? Yes, I have broken them.
:59:41. > :59:45.They are there to be broken. Stop smoking and I didn't. I finally
:59:46. > :59:52.stopped five`year is ago. I had no chocolate for a year but more
:59:53. > :59:56.Fairtrade this year. That's the Sunday Politics in the
:59:57. > :59:58.East Midlands, thanks to our guests Anna and Chris. From all the team
:59:59. > :00:10.here have a very Merry Tomorrow, the House of Commons will
:00:11. > :00:24.pay its tributes to Nelson Mandela. Our nation has lost its greatest
:00:25. > :00:49.son. Our people have lost a father. The first thing I ever did that
:00:50. > :00:50.involved an issue or policy, or politics, was protest against
:00:51. > :01:03.apartheid. I think his greatest legacy, to
:01:04. > :01:12.South Africa and to the world, is the emphasis which he has always put
:01:13. > :01:20.on the need for a conciliation, on the importance of human rights. He
:01:21. > :01:25.also made us understand that we can change the world. We can change the
:01:26. > :01:30.world by changing attitudes, by changing perceptions. For this
:01:31. > :01:40.reason, I would like to pay him tribute as a great human being, who
:01:41. > :01:49.raised the standard of humanity. Thank you for the gift of Madiba.
:01:50. > :01:59.Thank you for what he has enabled us to know we can become.
:02:00. > :02:08.We are joined now by the Labour MP Diane Abbott. You met Mr Mandela not
:02:09. > :02:14.one after he was released from prison in 1990. He went as an
:02:15. > :02:18.election observer for the first one person, one-vote in South Africa. I
:02:19. > :02:21.would guess, of all the people you met in your life, you must have been
:02:22. > :02:27.the most impressive and biggest influence? He was extraordinary. He
:02:28. > :02:31.had just come out of prison, 28 years in reason. He had seen a lot
:02:32. > :02:37.of his colleagues tortured, blown up and killed. He was entirely without
:02:38. > :02:42.bitterness. That is what came across. That was key to his
:02:43. > :02:47.achievement, to achieve a peaceful transition. Everybody thought that
:02:48. > :02:50.if you have black majority rule, you might have a bloodbath. It's down to
:02:51. > :02:55.Nelson Mandela but didn't happen. I remember FW de Klerk saying that
:02:56. > :03:04.Mandela was the key to getting a peaceful transition. Absolutely the
:03:05. > :03:10.key, an amazing man. London was one of the centres, people talked about
:03:11. > :03:13.it as being the other centre of the anti-apartheid struggle. That
:03:14. > :03:18.anti-apartheid struggle in London, it had an effect on black politics
:03:19. > :03:23.in Britain? Oh, yes. If you were black and politically active at the
:03:24. > :03:27.time, the apartheid struggle, the struggle against white supremacy in
:03:28. > :03:31.South Africa, was very important. Whatever your colour, the
:03:32. > :03:37.anti-apartheid struggle, for our generation, was the political
:03:38. > :03:40.campaign. We have the 50th anniversary of Kennedy's
:03:41. > :03:44.assassination. Mr Mandela's death. We are kind of running out of people
:03:45. > :03:48.that inspired us? I will never forget where I was when I saw him
:03:49. > :03:54.come out of prison, hand-in-hand with the women, I might add. If you
:03:55. > :03:58.have spent your whole teenage years and 20 is boycotting, marching,
:03:59. > :04:06.picketing, to see him actually come out was amazing. Do you think it was
:04:07. > :04:13.more exciting to meet you or the Spice Girls? I think the Spice
:04:14. > :04:16.Girls. What did the Labour backbenchers think about Ed Balls's
:04:17. > :04:21.performance after the Autumn Statement? Luck, Ed Balls is a
:04:22. > :04:25.brilliant man, but I think even he would say that it was not his best
:04:26. > :04:29.performance. But if you look at the polls, the public liked the points
:04:30. > :04:34.he made. The backbenchers were quiet, there was something wrong? I
:04:35. > :04:39.noticed that. It was like a wall of sound, deliberately. They know that
:04:40. > :04:43.under pressure his stamina might come back and it is difficult for
:04:44. > :04:49.him. That is what they were trying to incite. I have had experience
:04:50. > :04:52.first hand, a look at all of these anonymous and sometimes not
:04:53. > :05:04.anonymous quotes in the media. The spinning has begun against him? This
:05:05. > :05:08.is the party of brotherly love, no matter what the Tories say, we can
:05:09. > :05:14.say worse about each other. How could it be that two former aides to
:05:15. > :05:19.Gordon Brown do not like each other? Far be it from me to say. If he
:05:20. > :05:24.wanted to do it, and I'm not saying he does, is Mr Miliband ruthless
:05:25. > :05:28.enough to get rid of Ed Balls? I mean, he got rid of you, he got rid
:05:29. > :05:33.of his brother? One thing you should not do is under estimate Ed
:05:34. > :05:38.Miliband's capacity for ruthlessness. If he feels it is the
:05:39. > :05:41.right thing to do, he will do it. It's not just a matter of... Ed
:05:42. > :05:46.Balls is a big, powerful personality. He's great to interview
:05:47. > :05:50.because he is across his subject, you can have a really good argument
:05:51. > :05:55.with him, a man that knows his brief, his facts. But it's not just
:05:56. > :06:01.about the personality. There is a kind of sense that Labour needs to
:06:02. > :06:05.look forwards more on economic policy. Of course, the standard of
:06:06. > :06:10.living has been hugely successful for Labour. But it needs more than
:06:11. > :06:13.that on economic policy? I think he has been one of the most effective
:06:14. > :06:19.member 's Shadow Cabinet, and he's always associated with the Brown
:06:20. > :06:22.years, where there is always an element about, you were the guys
:06:23. > :06:26.that got it wrong. I think Ed Miliband will be very tempted to
:06:27. > :06:30.replace him with Alistair Darling. The scenario goes like this,
:06:31. > :06:33.Alistair Darling saves the union and then in September he saves the
:06:34. > :06:38.Labour Party. Ultimately, I don't think he would do it. Talk about
:06:39. > :06:43.shifting tectonic plates, it would, wouldn't it? But it is a step too
:06:44. > :06:51.far. Ed Balls would not be too happy. It is not something you would
:06:52. > :06:58.want to do lightly. That sounds a bit of a threat. Not from you. I
:06:59. > :07:04.can't see Ed Balls magnanimously retreating and say, go on, Alistair
:07:05. > :07:08.Darling, take the job I have been after all career. Where do you put
:07:09. > :07:12.him? Do you make him a middle ranking business or welfare
:07:13. > :07:16.secretary? He wouldn't do that. If you sack him, he would retreat to
:07:17. > :07:22.the backbenchers. He might take up knitting and practices piano scales,
:07:23. > :07:27.or he might have a blood feud with Ed Miliband. I don't know which
:07:28. > :07:31.could be. You look back to when he was schools Secretary, you could
:07:32. > :07:34.feel he was constantly fuming. I think he is better inside the tent,
:07:35. > :07:39.looking out, than the other way around. The thing one Labour
:07:40. > :07:42.strategist said to me was that he is too much looking into the rear-view
:07:43. > :07:46.mirror, when it comes to economic policy. He needs to look ahead
:07:47. > :07:52.through the windscreen. That had some resonance? He was at the centre
:07:53. > :07:57.of Labour's economic policy-making from the mid-90s. So it's hard for
:07:58. > :08:01.him but he has to look forward. There is an interesting comparison
:08:02. > :08:05.with 2009. Gordon Brown got in trouble when he said the choice is
:08:06. > :08:09.between Labour investment and Tory cuts. Everybody knew it was between
:08:10. > :08:13.Labour cuts and Tory cuts. In other words, he was not acknowledging
:08:14. > :08:17.reality. With Ed Balls, OK, we can say it is the wrong sort of
:08:18. > :08:20.recovery, but there is a recovery. Does he not need to absorb that
:08:21. > :08:28.punch and say there is a recovery, then people will listen to him?
:08:29. > :08:30.Possibly. We know that the macroeconomics are looking better.
:08:31. > :08:34.We also know people are not experiencing it as a recovery in
:08:35. > :08:40.living standards. No one, not even Tories, really believe that David
:08:41. > :08:44.Cameron knows what it is like for middle-income people to live normal
:08:45. > :08:47.lives. Living standards is particularly powerful because of the
:08:48. > :08:52.composition of the government? Don't go away. This time last year we
:08:53. > :08:55.ambushed our political panel with a quiz. They didn't come out of it
:08:56. > :08:59.smelling of roses, but they did come out rather smelly.
:09:00. > :09:09.Will the coalition still be in place a year from now? Yes. Definitely. I
:09:10. > :09:17.say definitely as well. From now, one year, will we know the date of
:09:18. > :09:22.the European referendum? Yes. No. I say no as well. How much growth will
:09:23. > :09:28.there be? Less than 1%. Father Christmas is less qualified than me,
:09:29. > :09:36.but I will go for one. I will go for a quarter of that. 0.4%. Sorry, a
:09:37. > :09:42.third of that. I am with you, and 1%. We didn't do too badly. What
:09:43. > :09:48.will growth be next year? I will remind you, the OBR has upgraded to
:09:49. > :09:53.2.4%. Better stick with the OBR, got it wrong last year. Well, they went
:09:54. > :09:58.down in March and then went back in December. I'm going to go under and
:09:59. > :10:05.claim credit where it's higher. I'm going to say 1%. Deliberately get it
:10:06. > :10:08.wrong. Given our record, if we say there is going to be spectacular
:10:09. > :10:15.growth, does it mean we're going to go into recession? There is
:10:16. > :10:20.incentive to be cautious. 2%. 2.4%, because the housing market in London
:10:21. > :10:25.is rocketing. It would be closer to 3% and 2.4, mark my words. We'll Ed
:10:26. > :10:37.Balls be Shadow Chancellor by this time next year? Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes,
:10:38. > :10:40.I value my life. Will UKIP mean the European elections, by which I mean
:10:41. > :10:51.have the highest percentage of the vote? Yes. Second behind Labour.
:10:52. > :10:54.Second behind Labour. Will Alex Salmond win the independence
:10:55. > :11:00.referendum? No, but it will be closer than we think. No, unless
:11:01. > :11:09.they do something catastrophic like let Cameron debate him. Too close to
:11:10. > :11:14.call. Controversial. How many Romanians and Bulgarians will come
:11:15. > :11:21.to Britain in 2014? Far fewer than anyone thinks. The entire population
:11:22. > :11:26.of Romania and Bulgaria, like Nigel Farage thanks. I'll go with that,
:11:27. > :11:32.I'm confident. A change of tone for your magazine. Not many will come,
:11:33. > :11:36.but a lot here already will normalise and be counted into
:11:37. > :11:41.figures. Too many for most right-wing commentators. I think
:11:42. > :11:48.quite a few will come, but not the kind of numbers that made such a
:11:49. > :11:55.huge difference. This time, everybody is open. They do like to
:11:56. > :11:58.speak English, that is the reason they want to come. We'll all three
:11:59. > :12:06.of you still be here by this time next year? Yes. Would you recommend
:12:07. > :12:12.that? Yes, keep them. And he has lovely boots. Shiny red boots. If
:12:13. > :12:21.you can keep affording me, I will be here. I hope so, it sounds like you
:12:22. > :12:28.have a firing squad outside. I hope so, maybe you will find some true
:12:29. > :12:33.talent. Very pragmatic, aren't they? Let me put this to you, I think you
:12:34. > :12:39.will agree. The coalition will not break now, this side of the election
:12:40. > :12:45.next year? There will not be... They will not go their own ways by this
:12:46. > :12:53.time next year? Of next year, maybe just after. Early 2015. This side of
:12:54. > :12:58.the election? What is the UKIP view? I don't think there is an advantage
:12:59. > :13:01.to either of them. If the Lib Dems pulled out, they would look like
:13:02. > :13:05.there were a lodger in the Tory house of government. I think it
:13:06. > :13:09.would suit the Lib Dems to break just before the election. I think
:13:10. > :13:12.that is what Vince Cable wants to do. I don't think it is what Nick
:13:13. > :13:20.Clegg would like to do. The Tories would love it. They would have all
:13:21. > :13:22.of the toys to themselves. Yellow marker they would look like the
:13:23. > :13:26.grown-ups. The problem for Vince Cable is that he's not the force
:13:27. > :13:30.that used to be after his temper tantrum at the Conference.
:13:31. > :13:38.I will be back with the Daily Politics next week. If Santer gives
:13:39. > :13:44.you a diary in your stocking, pencil in Sunday the 20th of January, the
:13:45. > :13:50.first Sunday Politics of 2014. Remember, if it is Sunday, it is the
:13:51. > :13:53.Sunday Politics. Unless it is Christmas. And New Year.