:00:39. > :00:47.Good morning, welcome. 2014 is barely under way, and the
:00:48. > :00:52.coalition is fighting over cuts. Nick Legg says Tory plans to balance
:00:53. > :00:55.the books would hit the poorest hardest. He will not say what he
:00:56. > :01:00.will cut. That is the top story. Chris Grayling called for a
:01:01. > :01:04.completely new deal with Europe as he battles will rings from the
:01:05. > :01:09.European Court of Human Rights. He joins me.
:01:10. > :01:11.Labour promises to shift house-building up a gear, but how
:01:12. > :01:14.will they In the East Midlands: the man who
:01:15. > :01:24.lost ?20,000, gambling on be serious. Have cuts left to the
:01:25. > :01:40.service being overstretched? With me for the duration, a top trio
:01:41. > :01:44.of political pundits, Helen Lewis, Jan and Ganesh and Nick Watt. They
:01:45. > :01:51.will be tweeting faster than France or long scoots through Paris. Nick
:01:52. > :01:56.Clegg sticks to his New Year resolution to sock it to the Tories,
:01:57. > :02:01.the is how he described Tory plans for another 12 billion of cuts on
:02:02. > :02:05.welfare after the next election. You cannot say, as the Conservatives
:02:06. > :02:08.are, that we are all in it together and then say that the welfare will
:02:09. > :02:12.not make any additional contributions from their taxes if
:02:13. > :02:15.there is a Conservative government after 2015 in the ongoing effort to
:02:16. > :02:23.balance the books. We are not even going to ask that very wealthy
:02:24. > :02:28.people who have retired who have benefits, paid for by the
:02:29. > :02:32.hard-pressed taxpayers, will make a sacrifice. The Conservatives appear
:02:33. > :02:37.to be saying only the working age pork will be asked to make
:02:38. > :02:40.additional sacrifices to fill the remaining buckle in the public
:02:41. > :02:46.finances. Nick Legg eating up on the Tories
:02:47. > :02:53.a, happens almost every day. I understand it is called aggressive
:02:54. > :02:59.differentiation. Will it work for them? It has not for the past two
:03:00. > :03:04.years. This began around the time of the AV referendum campaign, that is
:03:05. > :03:08.what poisoned the relations between the parties. They have been trying
:03:09. > :03:14.to differentiation since then, they are still at barely 10% in the
:03:15. > :03:20.polls, Nick Clegg's personal ratings are horrendous, so I doubt they will
:03:21. > :03:23.do much before the next election. It is interesting it has been combined
:03:24. > :03:29.with aggressive flirtation with Ed Balls and the Labour Party. There
:03:30. > :03:34.was always going to be some sort of rapprochement between them and the
:03:35. > :03:38.Labour Party, it is in the Labour Party's interests, and it is intent
:03:39. > :03:42.macro's interests, not to be defined as somebody who can only do deals
:03:43. > :03:47.with the centre-right. A colleague of yours, Helen, told me there was
:03:48. > :03:52.more talk behind closed doors in the Labour Party high command, they have
:03:53. > :03:56.to think about winning the election in terms of being the largest party,
:03:57. > :04:00.but not necessarily an overall majority. There is a feeling it was
:04:01. > :04:04.foolish before the last election not to have any thought about what a
:04:05. > :04:10.coalition might be, but the language has changed. Ed Miliband had said, I
:04:11. > :04:17.cannot deal with this man, but now, I have to be prismatic, it is about
:04:18. > :04:20.principles. Even Ed Balls. Nick Clegg had specifically said that Ed
:04:21. > :04:26.Balls was the man in politics that he hated. He said that was just a
:04:27. > :04:32.joke. Of course, it is about principles, not people! When Ed
:04:33. > :04:37.Balls said those nice things about Nick Clegg, he said, I understood
:04:38. > :04:41.the need to get a credible deficit reduction programme, although he
:04:42. > :04:45.said Nick Clegg went too far. The thing about Nick Clegg, he feels
:04:46. > :04:47.liberated, he bears the wounds from the early days of the coalition,
:04:48. > :04:47.liberated, he bears the wounds from the early days of the coalition and
:04:48. > :04:53.the early days of the coalition, and maybe those winds will haunt him all
:04:54. > :04:58.the way to the general election But he feels liberated, he says, we will
:04:59. > :05:01.be the restraining influence on both the Conservatives, who cannot insure
:05:02. > :05:05.that the recovery is fair, and the Labour Party, that do not have
:05:06. > :05:09.economic red ability. He feels relaxed, and that is why he is
:05:10. > :05:18.attacking the Tories and appearing pretty relaxed. He could also be
:05:19. > :05:22.falling into a trap. The Tories think what they suggesting on
:05:23. > :05:26.welfare cuts is possible. The more he attacks it, the more Tories will
:05:27. > :05:32.say, if you gave us an overall majority, he is the one it. He keeps
:05:33. > :05:35.taking these ostensibly on popular positions and it only makes sense
:05:36. > :05:40.when you talk to them behind the scenes, they are going after a tiny
:05:41. > :05:47.slice of the electorate, 20%, who are open to the idea of voting Lib
:05:48. > :05:53.Dem, and their views are a bit more left liberal than the bulk of the
:05:54. > :06:00.public. There is a perverse logic in them aggressively targeting that
:06:01. > :06:03.section of voters. In the end, ten macro's problem, if you do not like
:06:04. > :06:08.what this coalition has been doing, you will not vote for somebody who
:06:09. > :06:16.was part of it, you will vote for the Labour Party. The Tories are too
:06:17. > :06:19.nasty, Labour are to spendthrift, Lib Dem, a quarter of their vote has
:06:20. > :06:26.gone to Labour, and that is what could hand the largest party to
:06:27. > :06:30.Labour. That small number of voters, soft Tory voters, the problem for
:06:31. > :06:34.the Liberal Democrats is, if you fight, as they did, three general
:06:35. > :06:38.elections to the left of the Labour Party, and at the end of the third,
:06:39. > :06:43.you find yourself in Colour Vision with the Conservatives, you have a
:06:44. > :06:51.problem. Chris Grayling is a busy man, he has
:06:52. > :06:55.had to deal with aid riot at HM Prison Oakwood, barristers on strike
:06:56. > :07:06.and unhappy probation officers taking industrial action.
:07:07. > :07:16.Prison works. It ensures that we are protected from murderers, muggers
:07:17. > :07:24.and rapists. It makes many who are tempted to commit crime think twice.
:07:25. > :07:29.Traditional Tory policy on criminal justice and prisons has been tough
:07:30. > :07:34.talking and tough dealing. Not only have they tended to think what they
:07:35. > :07:38.are offering is right, but have had the feeling, you thinking what they
:07:39. > :07:44.thinking. But nearly two decades after Michael Howard's message, his
:07:45. > :07:47.party, in Colour Vision government, is finding prison has to work like
:07:48. > :07:52.everything else within today's financial realities. The Justice
:07:53. > :07:58.Secretary for two years after the election had previous in this field.
:07:59. > :08:04.Ken Clarke. Early on, he signalled a change of direction. Just binding up
:08:05. > :08:09.more and more people for longer without actively seeking to change
:08:10. > :08:18.them is, in my opinion, what you would expect of Victorian England.
:08:19. > :08:25.The key to keeping people out of prison now, it seems, is giving them
:08:26. > :08:29.in a job, on release. Ironically, Ken Clarke was released from his job
:08:30. > :08:36.15 months ago and replaced by Chris Grayling. But here, within HM Prison
:08:37. > :08:39.Liverpool, Timpson has been working since 2009 with chosen offenders to
:08:40. > :08:43.offer training and the chance of a job. Before you ask, they do not
:08:44. > :08:48.teach them keep cutting in a category B prison. The Academy is
:08:49. > :08:54.deliberately meant to look like a company store, not a prison. It
:08:55. > :08:58.helps. You forget where you are at times, it feels weird, going back to
:08:59. > :09:06.a wing at the end of the day. It is different. A different atmosphere.
:09:07. > :09:10.That is why people like it. Timpson have six academies in prisons,
:09:11. > :09:14.training prisoners inside, and outside they offer jobs to
:09:15. > :09:17.ex-offenders, who make up 8% of their staff. It has been hard work
:09:18. > :09:25.persuading some governors that such cooperation can work. I have seen a
:09:26. > :09:28.dramatic change positively, working with prisoners, particularly in the
:09:29. > :09:35.last five years. They understand now what business's expectation is.
:09:36. > :09:40.Timpson do not just employ offenders, but as one ex-prisoner
:09:41. > :09:44.released in February and now managing his own store says, the
:09:45. > :09:51.point is many others will not employ offenders at all. From what I have
:09:52. > :09:55.experienced, on one hand, you have somebody with a criminal conviction,
:09:56. > :09:58.on the other, somebody who does not have one, so it is a case of
:09:59. > :10:03.favouring those who have a clean record. Anybody with a criminal
:10:04. > :10:08.conviction is passed to one side and overlooked. That, amongst myriad
:10:09. > :10:14.other changes to prison and how we deal with prisoners, is on the desk
:10:15. > :10:18.of the man at the top. Ever since Chris Grayling became Secretary of
:10:19. > :10:21.State for Justice, he has wanted to signal a change of direction of
:10:22. > :10:26.policy, and he is in a hurry to make radical reforms across the board,
:10:27. > :10:30.from size and types of prisons to probation services, reoffending
:10:31. > :10:33.rates, legal aid services, and there has been opposition to that from
:10:34. > :10:37.groups who do not agree with him. But what might actually shackle him
:10:38. > :10:40.is none of that. It is the fact that he is in government with a party
:10:41. > :10:44.that does not always agree with him, he has to abide by the rulings of
:10:45. > :10:50.the European Court of Human Rights, and in those famous words, there is
:10:51. > :10:56.no money left. We would like to go further and faster. I would like him
:10:57. > :10:59.too, but we are where we are. If the Liberal Democrats want to be wiped
:11:00. > :11:04.out at the next election based on what they believe, that is fair
:11:05. > :11:09.enough. We accept there has to be savings, but there are areas where
:11:10. > :11:16.we feel that there is ideological driven policy-making going on, and
:11:17. > :11:23.privatising may not save any money at all, and so does not make any
:11:24. > :11:31.sense. The question is, we'll all of that means some of Chris Grayling's
:11:32. > :11:41.reforms need closer inspection? Chris Grayling joins me now.
:11:42. > :11:48.Welcome. We have a lot to cover. If you get your way, your own personal
:11:49. > :11:50.way, will be next Tory manifesto promise to withdraw from the
:11:51. > :11:59.European Convention of human rights? It will contain a promise
:12:00. > :12:03.for radical changes. We have to curtail the role of the European
:12:04. > :12:06.court here, replace our human rights act from the late 1990s, make our
:12:07. > :12:10.Supreme Court our Supreme Court, Supreme Court our Supreme Court
:12:11. > :12:14.they can be no question of decisions over riding it elsewhere, and we
:12:15. > :12:19.have to have a situation where our laws contain a balance of rights and
:12:20. > :12:23.responsibilities. People talk about knowing their rights, but they do
:12:24. > :12:29.not accept they have responsible it is. This is what you said last
:12:30. > :12:38.September, I want to see our Supreme Court being supreme again... That is
:12:39. > :12:42.clear, but let's be honest, the Supreme Court cannot be supreme as
:12:43. > :12:46.long as its decisions can be referred to the European Court in
:12:47. > :12:53.Strasbourg. There is clearly an issue, that was raised recency --
:12:54. > :12:56.recently. We have been working on a detailed reform plan, we will
:12:57. > :13:01.publish that in the not too distant future. What we will set out is a
:13:02. > :13:06.direction of travel for a new Conservative government that will
:13:07. > :13:09.mean wholesale change in this area. You already tried to reform the
:13:10. > :13:16.European Court, who had this declaration in 2012, do you accept
:13:17. > :13:20.that the reform is off the table? There is still a process of reform,
:13:21. > :13:24.but it is not going fast enough and not delivering the kind of change we
:13:25. > :13:26.need. That is why we will bring forward a package that for the
:13:27. > :13:32.different from that and will set a different direction of travel. We
:13:33. > :13:37.are clear across the coalition, we have a different view from our
:13:38. > :13:43.colleagues. You cannot be half pregnant on this, either our
:13:44. > :13:47.decisions from our Supreme Court are subject to the European Cup or not,
:13:48. > :13:52.in which case, we are not part of the European court. I hope you will
:13:53. > :13:55.see from our proposals we have come up with a sensible strategy that
:13:56. > :14:00.deals with this issue once and for all. Can we be part of the
:14:01. > :14:05.Strasbourg court and yet our Supreme Court be supreme? That is by point,
:14:06. > :14:10.we have to curtail the role of the court in the UK. I am clear that is
:14:11. > :14:17.what we will seek to do. It is what we will do for this country. But
:14:18. > :14:20.how? I am not going to announce the package of policies today, but we
:14:21. > :14:24.will go into the next election with a clear strategy that will curtail
:14:25. > :14:31.the role of the European Court of Human Rights in the UK. The
:14:32. > :14:35.decisions have to be taken in Parliament in this country. Are you
:14:36. > :14:37.sure that you have got your own side on this? Look at what the Attorney
:14:38. > :15:03.General says. I would be asking Strasberg a
:15:04. > :15:09.different question to that. If the best in class, he is saying is
:15:10. > :15:12.enough is enough, actually somebody in Strasberg should be asking if
:15:13. > :15:15.this has gone the way it should have done. I would love to see wholesale
:15:16. > :15:19.reform in the court tomorrow, I m reform in the court tomorrow, I'm
:15:20. > :15:24.not sure it is going to happen which is why we are going to the election
:15:25. > :15:30.with a clear plan for this country. Would you want that to be a red line
:15:31. > :15:35.in any coalition agreement? My mission is to win the next election
:15:36. > :15:41.with a majority. But you have to say where your red lines would be. We
:15:42. > :15:43.have been very clear it is an area where we don't agree as parties,
:15:44. > :15:46.have been very clear it is an area where we don't agree as parties but
:15:47. > :15:51.in my view the public in this country are overwhelmingly behind
:15:52. > :15:55.the Conservative party. 95 Conservative MPs have written to the
:15:56. > :15:59.Prime Minister, demanding he gives the House of Commons the authority
:16:00. > :16:04.to veto any aspect of European Union law. Are you one of the people who
:16:05. > :16:09.wanted to sign that letter but you couldn't because you are minister? I
:16:10. > :16:22.haven't been asked to sign the letter. We need a red card system
:16:23. > :16:28.for European law. I'm not convinced my colleagues... I don't think it is
:16:29. > :16:32.realistic to have a situation where one parliament can veto laws across
:16:33. > :16:36.the European Union. I understand the concerns of my colleagues, but when
:16:37. > :16:42.we set out to renegotiate our membership, we have got to deliver
:16:43. > :16:45.renegotiation and deliver a system which is viable, and I'm not
:16:46. > :16:49.convinced we can have a situation where one Parliament can prevent
:16:50. > :16:56.laws across the whole European Union. So you wouldn't have signed
:16:57. > :17:05.this letter? I'm not sure it is the right approach. I support the system
:17:06. > :17:08.I just talked about. Iain Duncan Smith has suggested EU migrants
:17:09. > :17:12.coming to work in this country should have to wait for two years
:17:13. > :17:19.before they qualify for welfare benefits, do you agree? Yes, I think
:17:20. > :17:23.there should be an assumption that before you can move from one country
:17:24. > :17:28.to another, before you can start to take back from that country's social
:17:29. > :17:34.welfare system, you should have made a contribution to it. I spent two
:17:35. > :17:37.and a half years working in Brussels trying to get the European
:17:38. > :17:42.Commission to accept the need for change. There is a groundswell of
:17:43. > :17:46.opinion out there which is behind Iain Duncan Smith in what he is
:17:47. > :17:50.saying. I think we should push for a clear system that says people should
:17:51. > :17:56.be able to move from one country to get a job, but to move to another
:17:57. > :18:04.country to live off the state is not acceptable. You are planning a new
:18:05. > :18:07.2000 capacity mega prison and other smaller presence which will be run
:18:08. > :18:14.by private firms. After what has happened with G4S, why would you do
:18:15. > :18:20.that? No decision has been made about whether it will be public or
:18:21. > :18:28.private. What do you think it will be? I'm not sure yet. There is no
:18:29. > :18:33.clear correlation over public and private prisons and whether there
:18:34. > :18:38.are problems or otherwise. Oakwood is in its early stages, it has had
:18:39. > :18:43.teething problems at the start, but the rate of disturbance there is
:18:44. > :18:49.only typical for an average prison of its category. If you take an
:18:50. > :18:56.example of Parc prison in Wales a big private run prison, run by G4S,
:18:57. > :19:00.when it was first launched under the last government it had teething
:19:01. > :19:05.problems of the same kind as Oakwood and is now regarded as one of the
:19:06. > :19:10.best performing prisons. Why would you give it to a private company
:19:11. > :19:16.then? We have only just got planning permission for the so we will not be
:19:17. > :19:22.thinking about this for another few years. Some of the companies who run
:19:23. > :19:29.prisons are under investigation with dreadful track records. In the case
:19:30. > :19:33.of G4S, what we have experienced is acceptable and they have not been
:19:34. > :19:37.able to go ahead with a number of contracts they might have otherwise
:19:38. > :19:44.got. They are having to prove to the Government they are fit to win
:19:45. > :19:48.contracts from the Government again. They are having to pay compensation
:19:49. > :19:53.to the Government and the taxpayer. What has happened is unacceptable.
:19:54. > :20:05.So why would you give them a 20 0 capacity mega prison? Or anyone like
:20:06. > :20:10.them? It cannot be said that every private company is bad. In addition
:20:11. > :20:14.to problems at Oakwood, you are quite unique now in your position
:20:15. > :20:19.that you have managed to get the barristers out on strike the first
:20:20. > :20:25.time since history began. What happens if the bar refuses to do
:20:26. > :20:31.work at your new rates of legal aid and the courts grind to a halt? I
:20:32. > :20:36.don't believe that will happen. When the barristers came out on strike,
:20:37. > :20:40.three quarters of Crown Courts were operating normally, 95% of
:20:41. > :20:45.magistrates courts were operating normally. We are having to take
:20:46. > :20:49.difficult decisions across government, I have no desire to cut
:20:50. > :20:55.back lately but we are spending over ?2 billion on legal aid at the
:20:56. > :21:01.moment at a time when budgets are becoming tougher. You issued
:21:02. > :21:07.misleading figures about criminal barristers, you said that 25% of
:21:08. > :21:13.them earn over ?100,000 per year but that is their turnover, including
:21:14. > :21:18.VAT. 33% of that money goes on their expenses, they have to pay for their
:21:19. > :21:24.own pensions and insurance. People are not getting wealthy out of doing
:21:25. > :21:30.this work. I don't publish figures, our statisticians do, with caveats
:21:31. > :21:33.in place explaining the situation. Where you have high-cost cases,
:21:34. > :21:38.where we have taken the most difficult decisions, we have tried
:21:39. > :21:48.hard in taking difficult decisions to focus the impact higher up the
:21:49. > :21:54.income scale. But do you accept their take-home pay is not 100,000?
:21:55. > :21:58.I accept they have to take out other costs, although some things like
:21:59. > :22:10.travelling to the court, you and I and everyone else has to pay for
:22:11. > :22:15.travelling to work. That is net of VAT. We have had a variety of
:22:16. > :22:22.figures published, some are and some are not. Let's be clear, the gross
:22:23. > :22:27.figures for fees from legal payments include 20% VAT. On a week when even
:22:28. > :22:37.a cabinet minister can be fitted up by the police, don't we all need
:22:38. > :22:40.well-financed legal aid? There is no chance that as a result
:22:41. > :22:52.well-financed legal aid? There is no changes people will end up in court
:22:53. > :22:55.unable to defend themselves. We have said in exceptional circumstances,
:22:56. > :22:59.if you haven't got any money to pay, we will support you, but there is no
:23:00. > :23:05.question of anyone ended up in court, facing a criminal charge
:23:06. > :23:10.where they haven't got a lawyer to defend them. Let's look at how so
:23:11. > :23:16.many dangerous criminals have managed to avoid jail. Here are the
:23:17. > :23:26.figures for 2012. Half the people for sexual assault found guilty, not
:23:27. > :23:32.jailed. I thought you were meant to be tough on crime? Those figures
:23:33. > :23:37.predate my time, but since 2010 the number of those people going to jail
:23:38. > :23:42.has been increasing steadily. If you put the figures for 2010 on there,
:23:43. > :23:48.you would see a significant change. We will never be in a position where
:23:49. > :23:52.everybody who commits violence will end up in jail. The courts will
:23:53. > :23:56.often decided to his more appropriate to give a community
:23:57. > :24:01.sentence, but the trend is towards longer sentences and more people
:24:02. > :24:08.going to jail. That maybe but it is even quite hard to get sent to jail
:24:09. > :24:13.if you do these things a lot, again and again. In 2012 one criminal
:24:14. > :24:23.avoided being sent to jail despite having more than 300 offences to his
:24:24. > :24:28.name. 36,000 avoided going to jail despite 15 previous offences. That
:24:29. > :24:33.is why we are taking steps to toughen up the system. Last autumn
:24:34. > :24:38.we scrapped repeat cautions. You could find people getting dozens. As
:24:39. > :24:41.of last autumn, we have scrapped repeat cautions. If you commit the
:24:42. > :24:46.same offence twice within a two year same offence twice within a two-year
:24:47. > :24:52.period you will go to court. You still might end up not going to
:24:53. > :24:57.jail. More and more people are going to jail. I cannot just magic another
:24:58. > :25:02.34,000 prison places. You haven t 34,000 prison places. You haven't
:25:03. > :25:07.got room to put bad people in jail? The courts will take the decisions,
:25:08. > :25:13.and it is for them to take the decisions and not me, that two men
:25:14. > :25:19.in a bar fight do not merit a jail sentence. These figures contain a
:25:20. > :25:24.huge amount of offences from the most minor of offences to the most
:25:25. > :25:28.despicable. Something is wrong if you can commit 300 offences and
:25:29. > :25:34.still not end up in jail. That's right, and we are taking steps so
:25:35. > :25:40.this cannot happen any more. Nick Clegg said this morning you are
:25:41. > :25:49.going to make 12 billion of welfare cuts on the back of this, he is
:25:50. > :25:57.right, isn't he? People on the lowest incomes are often not paying
:25:58. > :26:02.tax at all, the rich... But these cuts will fall disproportionately on
:26:03. > :26:09.average earners, correct? Let's look at the proposal to limit housing
:26:10. > :26:16.benefit for under 25s. Until today, after people have left school or
:26:17. > :26:20.college, the live for a time with their parents. For some, that is not
:26:21. > :26:24.possible and we will have to take that into account, but we have said
:26:25. > :26:28.there is a strong case for saying you will not get housing benefit
:26:29. > :26:32.until you are some years down the road and have properly established
:26:33. > :26:40.yourselves in work. And by definition these people are on lower
:26:41. > :26:45.than average salaries. Give me a case in which those on the higher
:26:46. > :26:50.tax band will contribute to the cuts. We have already put in place
:26:51. > :26:54.tax changes so that the highest tax rate is already higher than it was
:26:55. > :27:04.in every year of the last government. The amount of tax...
:27:05. > :27:09.There is no more expected of the rich. We will clearly look at future
:27:10. > :27:12.policy and work out how best to distribute the tax burden in this
:27:13. > :27:18.country and it is not for me to second-guess George Osborne's future
:27:19. > :27:23.plans, but we need to look at for example housing benefit for the
:27:24. > :27:29.under 25s. Is it right for those who are not working for the state to
:27:30. > :27:34.provide accommodation for them? Thank you for being with us.
:27:35. > :27:37.All three major parties at Westminster agree there's an urgent
:27:38. > :27:40.need to build more homes for Britain's growing population. But
:27:41. > :27:43.how they get built, and where, looks set to become a major battle ground
:27:44. > :27:45.in the run-up to the next general election.
:27:46. > :27:47.Although 16% more house-builds were started in 2012/13 than the previous
:27:48. > :27:55.year, the number actually completed fell by 8% - the lowest level in
:27:56. > :27:58.peacetime since 1920. The Office for National Statistics estimates that
:27:59. > :28:05.between now and 2021 we should expect 220,000 new households to be
:28:06. > :28:08.created every year. At his party's conference last autumn, Ed Miliband
:28:09. > :28:16.promised a Labour government would massively increase house-building. I
:28:17. > :28:21.will have a clear aim but by the end of the parliament, Britain will be
:28:22. > :28:26.building 200,000 homes per year more than at any time for a
:28:27. > :28:29.generation. That is how we make Britain better than this. The Labour
:28:30. > :28:32.leader also says he'd give urban councils a "right to grow" so rural
:28:33. > :28:37.neighbours can't block expansion and force developers with unused land to
:28:38. > :28:40.use it or lose it. The Government has been pursuing its own ideas
:28:41. > :28:44.including loan guarantees for developers and a new homes bonus to
:28:45. > :28:47.boost new house-building. But David Cameron could have trouble keeping
:28:48. > :28:49.his supporters on side - this week the senior backbencher Nadhim Zahawi
:28:50. > :28:56.criticised planning reforms for causing "physical harm" to the
:28:57. > :28:59.countryside. Nick Clegg meanwhile prefers a radical solution - brand
:29:00. > :29:13.new garden cities in the south east of England. In a speech tomorrow,
:29:14. > :29:16.Labour's shadow housing minister Emma Reynolds will give more details
:29:17. > :29:19.of how Labour would boost house-building, and she joins me
:29:20. > :29:24.now. It is not the politicians to blame, it is the lack of
:29:25. > :29:30.house-builders? We want a vibrant building industry, and at the moment
:29:31. > :29:34.that industry is dominated by big house-builders. I want to see a more
:29:35. > :29:40.diverse and competitive industry, where self build plays a greater
:29:41. > :29:46.role. In France over 60% of new homes are built by self builders,
:29:47. > :29:51.but small builders build more homes as well. 25 years ago they were
:29:52. > :29:55.building two thirds of new homes, now they are not building even a
:29:56. > :29:59.third of new homes. That's because land policies have been so
:30:00. > :30:04.restrictive that it is only the big companies who can afford to buy the
:30:05. > :30:08.land, so little land is being released for house building. I
:30:09. > :30:12.agree, there are some fundamental structural problems with the land
:30:13. > :30:15.market and that is why we have said there doesn't just need to be
:30:16. > :30:21.tinkering around the edges, there needs to be real reforms to make
:30:22. > :30:24.sure that small builders and self build and custom-built have access
:30:25. > :30:29.to land. They are saying they have problems with access to land and
:30:30. > :30:36.finance. At the end of the day it will not be self, small builders who
:30:37. > :30:41.reach your target, it will be big builders. I think it is pretty
:30:42. > :30:49.shameful that in Western Europe the new houses built in the UK are
:30:50. > :30:54.smaller than our neighbours. But isn't not the land problem? France
:30:55. > :31:02.is 2.8 times bigger in land mass and we are and that is not a problem for
:31:03. > :31:07.them. There is a perception we are going to build on the countryside,
:31:08. > :31:16.but not even 10% is on the countryside. There is enough for us
:31:17. > :31:20.to have our golf courses. There is enough other land for us to build on
:31:21. > :31:24.that is not golf courses. The planning minister has said he wants
:31:25. > :31:28.to build our National Parks, I am not suggesting that. The single
:31:29. > :31:34.biggest land border is the public sector. It is not. There are great
:31:35. > :31:39.opportunities for releasing public land, that is why I have been asking
:31:40. > :31:44.the government, they say they are going to release and of public land
:31:45. > :31:48.for tens of thousands of new homes to be built, but they say they are
:31:49. > :31:54.not monitoring how many houses are being built on the site. When your
:31:55. > :32:00.leader says to landowners, housing development owners, either use the
:32:01. > :32:07.land or lose it, in what way will they lose it? Will you confiscated?
:32:08. > :32:11.This is about strengthening the hand of local authorities, and they say
:32:12. > :32:14.to us that in some cases, house-builders are sitting on land.
:32:15. > :32:21.In those cases, we would give the power to local authorities to
:32:22. > :32:27.escalate fees. This would be the compulsory purchase orders, a matter
:32:28. > :32:34.of last resort, and you would hope that by strengthening the hand of
:32:35. > :32:37.local authorities, you could get the house-builders to start building the
:32:38. > :32:43.homes that people want. Would you compulsory purchase it? We would
:32:44. > :32:49.give the local authority as a last resort, after escalating the fees,
:32:50. > :32:52.the possibility and flexible it is to use the compulsory purchase
:32:53. > :32:56.orders to sell the land on to a house builder who wants to build
:32:57. > :33:00.houses that we need. Can you name one report that has come back in
:33:01. > :33:03.recent years that shows that hoarding of land by house-builders
:33:04. > :33:08.is a major problem? The IMF, the Conservative mayor of London and the
:33:09. > :33:11.Local Government Association are telling us that there is a problem
:33:12. > :33:15.with land hoarding. Therefore, we have said, where there is land with
:33:16. > :33:22.planning permission, and if plots are being sat on... Boris Johnson
:33:23. > :33:25.says there are 180,000 plots in London being sat on. We need to make
:33:26. > :33:33.sure the house-builders are building the homes that young families need.
:33:34. > :33:35.They get planning permission and sell it on to the developer. There
:33:36. > :33:38.is a whole degree of complicity, but is a whole degree of complicity but
:33:39. > :33:44.there is another problem before that. That is around transparency
:33:45. > :33:48.about land options. There is agricultural land that
:33:49. > :33:54.house-builders have land options on, and we do not know where that is.
:33:55. > :34:00.Where there is a need for housing, and the biggest demand is in the
:34:01. > :34:05.south-east of England, that is where many local authorities are most
:34:06. > :34:09.reluctant to do it, will you in central government take powers to
:34:10. > :34:16.force these authorities to give it? We have talked about the right to
:34:17. > :34:24.grow, we were in Stevenage recently. What we have said is we
:34:25. > :34:27.want to strengthen the hand of local authorities like Stevenage so they
:34:28. > :34:30.are not blocked every step of the way. They need 16,000 new homes,
:34:31. > :34:33.are not blocked every step of the way. They need 16,000 new homes but
:34:34. > :34:37.they do not have the land supply. What about the authorities that do
:34:38. > :34:41.not want to do it? They should be forced to sit down and agree with
:34:42. > :34:45.the neighbouring authority. In Stevenage, it is estimated at
:34:46. > :34:48.?500,000 has been spent on legal fees because North Hertfordshire is
:34:49. > :34:54.blocking Stevenage every step of the way. Michael Lyons says the national
:34:55. > :35:01.interest will have to take President over local interest. Voice cannot
:35:02. > :35:07.mean a veto. The local community in Stevenage is crying out for new
:35:08. > :35:10.homes. Do you agree? There has to be land available for new homes to be
:35:11. > :35:16.built, and in areas like Oxford, Luton and Stevenage... Do you agree
:35:17. > :35:38.with Michael Lyons? The national interest does have to be served,
:35:39. > :35:44.will put the five new towns? We have asked him to look at how we can
:35:45. > :35:48.incentivise local authorities to come forward with sites for new
:35:49. > :35:54.towns. You cannot tell us where they are going to be? I cannot. We will
:35:55. > :36:00.have to wait for him. When you look at the historic figures overall, not
:36:01. > :36:03.at the moment, Private Housing building is only just beginning to
:36:04. > :36:06.recover, but it has been pretty steady for a while. The big
:36:07. > :36:10.difference between house-building now and in the past, since Mrs
:36:11. > :36:14.Thatcher came to power a and including the Tony Blair government,
:36:15. > :36:19.we did not build council houses. Almost none. Will the next Labour
:36:20. > :36:25.government embark on a major council has programme? We inherited housing
:36:26. > :36:32.stock back in 1997... This is important. Will the next Labour
:36:33. > :36:36.government embark on a major council has programme? We have called on
:36:37. > :36:40.this government to bring forward investment in social housing. We
:36:41. > :36:45.want to see an investment programme in social housing, I cannot give you
:36:46. > :36:49.the figures now. We are 18 months away from the election. Will the
:36:50. > :36:55.next Labour government embark on a major council house Northern
:36:56. > :36:58.programme? I want to see a council house building programme, because
:36:59. > :37:07.there is a big shortage of council homes. That is a guess? Yes. We got
:37:08. > :37:13.there in the end. -- that is a yes? We will be talking to Patrick homes
:37:14. > :37:16.in the West Midlands in a moment. You are watching the Sunday
:37:17. > :37:19.Politics. Coming up in just over 20 minutes, I will look at the week
:37:20. > :37:35.ahead with our political In the East Midlands: Does
:37:36. > :37:39.technology make it too easy to gamble? We hear from a man who lost
:37:40. > :37:46.bags and is using his mobile phone to place bets. I started gambling on
:37:47. > :37:52.my phone. It meant betting was more available to me, any time of day.
:37:53. > :37:56.We're talking between ?10,000 and ?15,000. And what do you want
:37:57. > :38:03.politicians to concentrate on this year, for some it is the economy.
:38:04. > :38:08.Trade is disappearing. We need help. We need a boost.
:38:09. > :38:13.And sharing their resolutions with us, Conservative MP for Sherwood,
:38:14. > :38:18.Mark Spencer, and Labour's Liz Kendall, the MP for Leicester West.
:38:19. > :38:22.The New Year has kicked off as the old one ended with bad news from our
:38:23. > :38:26.local councils as they look to balance their budgets. This week,
:38:27. > :38:30.Leicestershire County Council announced 700 jobs would go and
:38:31. > :38:35.Derby City Council says it was losing 350 staff. It comes on top of
:38:36. > :38:40.planned job losses at Nottinghamshire County Council of
:38:41. > :38:45.750 and unions warning up to 1500 could go in Derbyshire. The plans
:38:46. > :38:50.also means severe cuts in services at all of the councils. Mark
:38:51. > :38:54.Spencer, all of the councils, both Labour and Conservative, are blaming
:38:55. > :38:59.cuts imposed by your government. Are you comfortable with this level of
:39:00. > :39:02.job losses? It is huge. Some of those councils need to be smarter in
:39:03. > :39:06.the way they approach this problem. They look `` they need to find
:39:07. > :39:11.better ways of solving the problems they save `` face. Nottinghamshire
:39:12. > :39:16.County Council is a good example, they are losing jobs but at the same
:39:17. > :39:19.time, they have cut the number of council meetings. The councils have
:39:20. > :39:22.not cut their allowances. I think we can get smarter and we can look at
:39:23. > :39:25.the way they are doing those budgets. There are ways in which
:39:26. > :39:29.they can mitigate some of the pressure they are under. But what do
:39:30. > :39:33.you say to all of those thousands of people who are going to be losing
:39:34. > :39:38.their jobs? Could these losses be avoided? Some of those losses could
:39:39. > :39:41.be avoided if they were better managed councils, if I'm honest.
:39:42. > :39:46.There are ways in which they can protect those front line services,
:39:47. > :39:49.keep those jobs looking after my constituents and other people in the
:39:50. > :39:52.East Midlands, if they just operate a little bit smarter. That is no
:39:53. > :39:58.comfort to people who will lose their jobs. Absolutely. Every one of
:39:59. > :40:02.those job losses is an individual tragedy. The good news is, the
:40:03. > :40:04.economy is expanding and other people are finding jobs. If you are
:40:05. > :40:10.losing yours, that is no consolation. Councils need to be
:40:11. > :40:14.more efficient and that has got to be a good thing. Councils are
:40:15. > :40:19.working really hard to try and make how they work more efficient, by
:40:20. > :40:23.sharing backroom functions, by trying to change the way that
:40:24. > :40:28.services are run, to try and keep up the quality to our constituents
:40:29. > :40:31.would also try and make some personal efficiencies. They are
:40:32. > :40:35.facing huge cuts from central government. One of the things that
:40:36. > :40:40.many councils in this region think is unfair is that whilst some
:40:41. > :40:43.councils like the Prime Minister's own council is seeing Benny any
:40:44. > :40:49.cuts, we are having a much higher burden of cuts in this region. ``
:40:50. > :40:53.barely any cuts. The South is getting off easily, compared to our
:40:54. > :40:58.cats. You need to compare like with like. You need to compare per
:40:59. > :41:00.capita, individual members or persons within that region and how
:41:01. > :41:07.much they get each. If you compare them like that, actually, they are
:41:08. > :41:10.much closer than the analysis shows. West Oxfordshire doesn't have
:41:11. > :41:13.anywhere near the levels of deprivation or demand on services
:41:14. > :41:20.that we have in this region. I think that is the wrong kind of cut that
:41:21. > :41:24.the government is making. You can read more on those council cuts in
:41:25. > :41:28.our political editor's blog on the BBC website.
:41:29. > :41:32.I don't suppose our cash strapped councils would be tempted to turn
:41:33. > :41:35.into gambling to boost their fans but it seems more and more people
:41:36. > :41:39.are getting into debt because technology is making betting
:41:40. > :41:43.easier. This week, the House of Lords will be considering the
:41:44. > :41:45.gambling Bill. We've met a Derbyshire man who has lost
:41:46. > :41:51.thousands of pounds using his mobile phone to place bets.
:41:52. > :41:57.Admit it, we all like a little flutter from time, but what happens
:41:58. > :42:00.when new technology like the mobile phone interactive television or the
:42:01. > :42:06.Internet can transform that flutter into an addiction? Online gambling
:42:07. > :42:12.on his mobile phone wrecked Adam's marriage and plunged into serious
:42:13. > :42:18.debt this 24`year`old upholstery worker. I started gambling on my
:42:19. > :42:21.phone. It meant betting was more available to me at any time of day,
:42:22. > :42:24.it doesn't matter where I was either. If I was going out or
:42:25. > :42:29.something, I didn't have to panic and think I need to be back by this
:42:30. > :42:31.time or I need to get to the bookies for this time because I could just
:42:32. > :42:36.flicked it on my phone and away I went. How much has that cost you? We
:42:37. > :42:44.are talking between ?15,000 to ?20,000. What you need is our new
:42:45. > :42:50.application. Have you tried live streaming? You will love it. The
:42:51. > :42:54.seductive ease of betting online has transformed the gambling industry.
:42:55. > :42:59.More of us are tempted, especially the computer savvy young. If I was
:43:00. > :43:07.feeling a bit down or angry or upset, or anything like that, that
:43:08. > :43:11.is when I turned to it as a release. There are an estimated 500,000
:43:12. > :43:16.gabbling addicts in Britain and yet only 15% of online betting sites
:43:17. > :43:22.come under UK law, because they are based overseas. It is called remote
:43:23. > :43:27.gambling. Happier times, this is Adam's wedding day. He is no father
:43:28. > :43:29.to a young son. I lost a lot of money and I knew was going to be
:43:30. > :43:34.struggling. For some reason, it didn't seem to stop me. That is why
:43:35. > :43:38.there is political concern. Labour want new curbs on high Street
:43:39. > :43:43.betting shops. The government has introduced new laws to regulate
:43:44. > :43:47.so`called remote gambling. If one I was gambling someone had been
:43:48. > :43:52.ringing me up saying, we have noticed on your account in the last
:43:53. > :43:56.two hours you have put ?100 on, is everything OK? I think that would
:43:57. > :44:03.have embarrassed me enough to leave it for a little bit, thinking they
:44:04. > :44:07.are watching what I'm doing. Do you feel as though you are out of that
:44:08. > :44:10.addiction is now? There is always a chance you can slip back into it but
:44:11. > :44:13.I do feel myself, but I do feel myself, that I am more of a
:44:14. > :44:18.controlled gamble again, than a compulsive gambler. Adam watches
:44:19. > :44:22.this week's Parliamentary debate on gambling regulations. He hopes, for
:44:23. > :44:28.his sake and thousands of others, our lawmakers get it right.
:44:29. > :44:33.We are joined by Doctor Mark Griffiths from Nottingham Trent
:44:34. > :44:40.University. We heard Adam's experiences. Is this a common story?
:44:41. > :44:43.I wouldn't use the word common. There are about ?500,000 `500,000
:44:44. > :44:50.adults in the country with this problem. These problems affect other
:44:51. > :44:54.people as well. Saying it is common, the good news is, it's under 1% of
:44:55. > :44:57.the population. Politicians say they are going to address this problem
:44:58. > :45:02.with the gambling Bill. Do you think it will go far enough? The thing
:45:03. > :45:06.about the legislators, they are two steps behind the technology anyway.
:45:07. > :45:11.We, as researchers, are trying to catch up with what the new issues
:45:12. > :45:15.are going to be. There is a lot of debate about bookmakers and yet if
:45:16. > :45:18.you have a mobile phone, you are essentially carrying around a
:45:19. > :45:22.bookmaker with you anyway. Bookmakers are being unfairly
:45:23. > :45:25.treated in the sense they are highly regulated environments and yet
:45:26. > :45:29.online, we have most of the British operators not even operating in
:45:30. > :45:32.Britain because they want to save on tax. What we should be doing is
:45:33. > :45:40.tightening up regulations and making basic gambling safer. What we need
:45:41. > :45:43.to be doing is encouraging the industry itself to do more
:45:44. > :45:48.regulation and look after its customers. Just like the alcohol
:45:49. > :45:52.industry spends a lot of money educating people who drink alcohol.
:45:53. > :45:56.The gambling industry should be doing more to educate its punters.
:45:57. > :45:59.That is happening. The Association of British bookmakers for instance,
:46:00. > :46:03.I helped develop their code of conduct and what they are going to
:46:04. > :46:08.do in bookmakers, they are going to give people the chance to set time
:46:09. > :46:11.and money limits. This is great. You are pre`committing, saying that I
:46:12. > :46:15.don't want to lose more than ?20 in this machine. Those are the things
:46:16. > :46:19.that the operators can do. That is the thing. We worry about the
:46:20. > :46:22.technology which is coming into our homes and workplaces but we can
:46:23. > :46:26.harness the technology to actually help the people that are most
:46:27. > :46:30.needed. Labour brought their own gambling motion into the Commons
:46:31. > :46:35.last week, aimed at curbing the growth of fixed odds betting
:46:36. > :46:39.machines. That was defeated. Yes, we are disappointed. We want to see
:46:40. > :46:42.local councils have more powers to stop too many bookmakers and these
:46:43. > :46:46.machines posturing. We also went to see some things that would do
:46:47. > :46:55.exactly what Marcus talking about, these pop`ups which bring about a
:46:56. > :46:57.stop. The important thing is, technology is developing all the
:46:58. > :47:02.time and we are quite slow at legislators in keeping up with that
:47:03. > :47:06.pace. Does Labour regret relaxing the laws on gambling, as you did?
:47:07. > :47:10.Really, you let it get out of control, perhaps. We put in the
:47:11. > :47:14.first`ever limits of the number of these fixed betting machines. We do
:47:15. > :47:19.need to keep up with the pace of change and technology. We have seen
:47:20. > :47:23.this with all sorts of things, whether it is rise about what is
:47:24. > :47:26.said on Twitter, whether it is gambling, Internet is developing
:47:27. > :47:28.quickly and it would be good to know, what is the next thing we
:47:29. > :47:35.should be thinking about now, so that we can plan ahead? Any of us
:47:36. > :47:38.with kids, all of their lives are going online now. I have three
:47:39. > :47:42.teenagers who spend a disproportionate amount of time on
:47:43. > :47:49.line. BCA convergence of these things. `` we see. I can see video
:47:50. > :47:52.games where people will be gambling within the games. There will be
:47:53. > :47:56.gambling on social networking sites. Parents have to become more
:47:57. > :48:00.educated about what their kids are doing. My kids are the gamblers of
:48:01. > :48:09.tomorrow. If you say that, what can politicians do? Anything... What we
:48:10. > :48:11.have seen with gambling, be used to have dedicated gambling
:48:12. > :48:15.environments. Then it spread to lottery tickets in petrol stations.
:48:16. > :48:19.Now we have single site slot machines over the place. Now, what
:48:20. > :48:25.remote gambling brings us is it takes out gambling, into the home
:48:26. > :48:29.and workplace. It means that the jobs politicians get harder. We have
:48:30. > :48:32.to try and encourage the industry to help us out there. If you are in a
:48:33. > :48:36.bookmakers, you have someone behind the counter who can say, come on,
:48:37. > :48:47.Jim, don't you think you've lost enough? The challenge will come is
:48:48. > :48:51.the international element. Can you do anything with that? We have to
:48:52. > :48:56.get the industry to step up to the plate and take it. I would say to
:48:57. > :48:59.you, that is actually happening. If you look at the major players in
:49:00. > :49:03.this country, they are taking this issue seriously. With technology,
:49:04. > :49:06.particularly if you are using a smart card or online, we can track
:49:07. > :49:12.every single bet that the gambler places. There are two things which
:49:13. > :49:14.we need to do here. Part of the government's legislation that is
:49:15. > :49:18.coming forward, and we supported this, you're trying to make
:49:19. > :49:22.improvements to it is saying there should be a proper regulatory
:49:23. > :49:25.framework, even if you are based abroad. Secondly, I think we do need
:49:26. > :49:29.to educate our young people about what is coming up so they are
:49:30. > :49:32.prepared for the future and parents as well. Nobody here is against
:49:33. > :49:36.people having a bet but we've got to have a system where, if you start to
:49:37. > :49:43.see this problem gambling happening, people can take it break out of it.
:49:44. > :49:55.There is a pause so that... That is important. In academic terms,
:49:56. > :49:58.teenagers are those people who've never known a world without the
:49:59. > :50:04.Internet and they are the adults of tomorrow. As a parent who has been
:50:05. > :50:09.studying this, you must be worried about the future. No, because I am a
:50:10. > :50:12.responsible parent. When my children watch gambling type shows on
:50:13. > :50:16.television, I can say, you've seen some body win but there are always
:50:17. > :50:19.more people losing. What you've got is that this might be happening in
:50:20. > :50:23.homes and parents are not saying anything to their kids. For me,
:50:24. > :50:29.gambling is like... Gambling is off the radar. Kids have sex and alcohol
:50:30. > :50:32.education. I'm saying we should have education about gambling and even
:50:33. > :50:39.now, things like video gaming as well.
:50:40. > :50:43.This New Year promises to be a crucial 12 months in politics with
:50:44. > :50:47.more cuts to come. There is also the elections European Parliament and
:50:48. > :50:53.the battle for votes in our marginal constituencies. So, what are East
:50:54. > :50:56.Midlands politician... What should they be prioritising? We will hear
:50:57. > :51:03.what you think in a moment. Let's hear from the Liberal Democrats in
:51:04. > :51:05.the East Midlands. Residents across the East Midlands have seen Liberal
:51:06. > :51:08.Democrats running councils and they have seen the difference we can
:51:09. > :51:14.make. We've only got 2.2 candidates in Hinckley and Bosworth, it shows
:51:15. > :51:18.the difference we can make. A lot of councils have been quite lazy and
:51:19. > :51:22.they've taken the easiest option, particularly in terms of cuts. That
:51:23. > :51:25.is not always the best. In fact, it is frequently the worst thing to
:51:26. > :51:30.do. Looking at something with a fresh face in a creative way shows
:51:31. > :51:35.that we can have investment and can protect services. To do that,
:51:36. > :51:37.Liberal Democrats need votes. The East Midlands is a funny place was
:51:38. > :51:41.because the Liberal Democrats are the only party that are not
:51:42. > :51:47.represented at Westminster. We've had some recent past. If you look at
:51:48. > :51:50.similar results in the county elections this year and the strength
:51:51. > :51:54.we will have in the European elections, I think we will be back
:51:55. > :51:58.with a bounce in 2015 and we will have MPs that prove that having
:51:59. > :52:02.Liberal Democrats at the heart of government means that you've got a
:52:03. > :52:05.fairer society and a stronger economy. People know you cannot
:52:06. > :52:09.trust Labour with the economy and you cannot trust the Conservatives
:52:10. > :52:13.to be fair. Mark, what will the themes before
:52:14. > :52:18.the Conservatives in the East Midlands this year? For me, jobs,
:52:19. > :52:23.jobs, jobs. People need jobs and we need to keep pushing to make sure
:52:24. > :52:26.that the economic climate allows for businesses to expand and take more
:52:27. > :52:32.people on. If you get a job, it changes everything. I think also,
:52:33. > :52:34.flooding is quite an issue. We have been lucky this time that we've
:52:35. > :52:38.escaped over the last couple of weeks but it keeps raising its head.
:52:39. > :52:43.I'm concentrating on that. What are your aims, Liz? Tackling the
:52:44. > :52:45.problems we've got with unemployment, particularly youth
:52:46. > :52:49.unemployed and long`term unemployed in. We've got to get the banks
:52:50. > :52:53.lending to local businesses again because that is what we really need
:52:54. > :52:58.to drive growth in this region. Also, for us as a party, issues
:52:59. > :53:01.around the NHS and care for the elderly. We've seen problems
:53:02. > :53:06.building up there. We need to address them now. What kind of
:53:07. > :53:11.problems? Problems with our accident and emergency waiting times. More
:53:12. > :53:15.elderly people ending up in hospital when they don't need to. We need a
:53:16. > :53:19.strong economy and a fair society. We got to do those two things
:53:20. > :53:25.together. That could cost you votes, couldn't it? A strike me is
:53:26. > :53:33.vital. You can only do these things if they are `` if things are moving
:53:34. > :53:36.in the right direction. Going in a different direction would put all of
:53:37. > :53:39.that in jeopardy. It is nice to talk about these things that we would
:53:40. > :53:42.like to do but unless you have a strong economy, you cannot do those
:53:43. > :53:45.things. What about the European elections? That is something that
:53:46. > :53:50.Jason didn't mention. How important are they for us in the East
:53:51. > :54:03.Midlands? I think they are pretty important for the media in the West
:54:04. > :54:08.Midlands... You are not a fan? I am sure we will in the Westminster
:54:09. > :54:12.bubble. It's a question of how effective our MEPs. The European
:54:13. > :54:16.Union has a big effect on our lives. It's how effective our MEPs are in
:54:17. > :54:23.dealing with that. I am pro`Europe but I am pro a youth reformed `` I
:54:24. > :54:25.am pro a reformed Europe. I have lots of businesses in my
:54:26. > :54:28.constituency which rely on the market. We need Europe to change to
:54:29. > :54:31.make sure it focuses on the things that matter to people, jobs and
:54:32. > :54:36.growth, and to cut out the waste that is there as well. It will be
:54:37. > :54:39.important. I know people think it is a Westminster political bubble issue
:54:40. > :54:43.but actually, jobs and growth in Europe really affect us all. We
:54:44. > :54:51.heard from the politicians but what do you think? Des Coleman paid a
:54:52. > :54:57.visit to our guests's constituencies.
:54:58. > :55:03.It is a New Year so what do people want from the politicians in 2014?
:55:04. > :55:08.What do you want from your politicians? Jobs. Leicester is a
:55:09. > :55:15.black spot. A terrible place to find a job. What have you got to say? I
:55:16. > :55:19.want the government to focus on community and look after the
:55:20. > :55:23.community, where they have taken funding away from people like the
:55:24. > :55:26.disabled and special needs. Just make sure that communities have
:55:27. > :55:32.better unity and better looked after? Politicians don't preach what
:55:33. > :55:36.they practice. They are on about people having a 1% rise and
:55:37. > :55:39.feathering their own nests. I don't agree with that. We have to think
:55:40. > :55:46.about our kids as well. They are growing up now. My daughter is going
:55:47. > :55:52.to grow up and expense `` college is extensive. You don't see a sign like
:55:53. > :55:56.that too often, beware the ducks. You can tell we have come to the
:55:57. > :55:59.country. Two North Nottinghamshire, we have come. Let's find out what
:56:00. > :56:08.people want from their politicians here. I think number one is
:56:09. > :56:13.immigration. That is the thing. It does concern people. What do you
:56:14. > :56:19.want politicians to do? All of the local businesses are constricted and
:56:20. > :56:22.are disappearing. I service local businesses, cash registers, and
:56:23. > :56:28.traders disappearing. We need some help, a boost. We need more jobs.
:56:29. > :56:31.Since the pit closed in this time, nothing has replaced it, see we need
:56:32. > :56:36.a replacement of employment so we can get these young children, young
:56:37. > :56:43.girls and boys, back to work. It's important we do that. I've think we
:56:44. > :56:46.`` I think we've extended your constituency boundary their
:56:47. > :56:51.excavation mark that was a woman in your constituency. At the
:56:52. > :56:56.politicians like you tackle this? We have to get to grips with it. It
:56:57. > :57:00.comes up all the time. The state of the economy, welfare reform and
:57:01. > :57:07.immigration are the three I hear on the doorstep. I think we are doing
:57:08. > :57:11.fairly well on those but we need to make more progress as we go forward.
:57:12. > :57:15.People are talking about jobs as well. Jobs are being created, as
:57:16. > :57:24.we've heard this week, and the economy is growing quickly. I still
:57:25. > :57:26.have over 800 young people unemployed and 500 long`term
:57:27. > :57:31.unemployed. That figure is still going up. My recent jobs fair, I had
:57:32. > :57:35.700 people through the door in the day. Jobs are an issue. So too are
:57:36. > :57:40.people 's living standards. People are struggling to make ends meet. We
:57:41. > :57:45.need to do more to get better paid jobs. I think crucially to make sure
:57:46. > :57:48.our young people have skills for the future which they really need. I
:57:49. > :57:53.have some real concerns that we are not focusing on the right things in
:57:54. > :57:58.tins of what is happening in our schools. We need good quality
:57:59. > :58:02.academic education. It's a long list! It is about dealing with the
:58:03. > :58:06.problems and preparing for the future. This is one of the problems
:58:07. > :58:10.of the Labour Party. They've got a long list of things they want to
:58:11. > :58:15.spend money on but not a long list of how they are going to create that
:58:16. > :58:18.cash. 1.3 million jobs since the election in the private sector have
:58:19. > :58:21.been created. We are making good progress. If we followed the advice
:58:22. > :58:28.of Ed balls, we wouldn't be in a position we are in now. We would be
:58:29. > :58:31.in a worse position. `` Ed Balls. You have to have a strong economy to
:58:32. > :58:37.do the nice stuff that we want to do. Heading in the right direction,
:58:38. > :58:41.Liz? I really welcome any good news on jobs and growth. My concern is
:58:42. > :58:44.that the government may be repeating the mistakes of the past because of
:58:45. > :58:50.the growth is driven by debt and credit, not by jobs, in all parts of
:58:51. > :58:54.the country that we need, that will cause problems in the future. Any
:58:55. > :58:57.good news as well come but we have to make sure we have jobs and growth
:58:58. > :59:02.in this region and that it is sustainable for the long`term. Time
:59:03. > :59:03.for a round`up of some of the other political stories in the East
:59:04. > :59:17.Midlands this week. Businesses in the East Midlands have
:59:18. > :59:22.expressed concerns over plans to introduce a 60 mph limit on the M1
:59:23. > :59:27.between Mansfield and Rotherham. The highways agency says it is needed to
:59:28. > :59:31.cut emissions but local chambers of commerce say it will add to journey
:59:32. > :59:35.times and increase costs. One of the regions campaigners as a
:59:36. > :59:39.gong in the New Year 's Honours list. Marilyn Baldwin, who appeared
:59:40. > :59:42.on the programme last year, is campaigning to stop scam mail being
:59:43. > :59:46.delivered to our homes. She was awarded an OBE.
:59:47. > :59:52.Our politicians have been busy bending ministerial years this week.
:59:53. > :59:58.Anna Sebring met the Communities Secretary to ask him to review a
:59:59. > :00:03.decision to allow opencast mining. And the Nottingham North MP, Graham
:00:04. > :00:05.Allen, has met the Education Secretary to discuss what happens
:00:06. > :00:10.next to schools in Nottingham. It comes after six of the city 's
:00:11. > :00:16.secondary schools were found to be failing in a blitz by Ofsted.
:00:17. > :00:21.And next week, we will be hearing from pupils and teachers at one of
:00:22. > :00:22.those Nottingham schools, failed by Ofsted.
:00:23. > :00:33.will not be revoked. And I wouldn't want it to go. Thank you, back to
:00:34. > :00:39.Andrew. Can David Cameron get his way on EU
:00:40. > :00:43.migration? Will he ever be able to satisfy his backbenchers on Europe?
:00:44. > :00:53.Is Ed Miliband trying to change the tone of PMQ 's? More questions for
:00:54. > :00:57.the week ahead. We are joined by Jacob Rees Mogg
:00:58. > :01:02.from his constituency in Somerset. Welcome to the programme. You one of
:01:03. > :01:09.the 95 Tory backbenchers who signed this letter? Suddenly. Laws should
:01:10. > :01:17.be made by our democratically elected representatives, not from
:01:18. > :01:25.Brussels. How could Europe work with a pick and mix in which each
:01:26. > :01:31.national parliament can decide what Brussels can be in charge of? The
:01:32. > :01:34.European Union is a supernatural body that is there for the
:01:35. > :01:42.cooperation amongst member states to do things that they jointly want to
:01:43. > :01:44.do. It ought not be there to force -- to enforce uniform rules on
:01:45. > :01:47.countries that do not want to participate. It is the vision of
:01:48. > :01:52.Europe that people joined when we signed up to it and came in in 1973.
:01:53. > :01:56.signed up to it and came in in 973. It has accreted powers to itself
:01:57. > :02:01.without having the support of the public of the member states. This is
:02:02. > :02:06.just a way of preparing the ground for you to get out of Europe
:02:07. > :02:11.altogether, isn't it? I do not big so. There is a role for an
:02:12. > :02:14.organisation that does some coordination and that has trade
:02:15. > :02:20.agreements within it, I do not think there is a role for a federal state.
:02:21. > :02:25.Europe seems to be dominating the. I remember your leader telling you not
:02:26. > :02:28.to bang on about Europe, your backbench colleagues seem to have
:02:29. > :02:37.ignored that. Would you like to restrict the flow of EU migrants to
:02:38. > :02:40.come to work in this country? Yes. I think we should have control of our
:02:41. > :02:46.own borders, so we can decide who we want to admit for the whole world.
:02:47. > :02:50.What we have at the moment is a restrictive control of people coming
:02:51. > :02:53.from anywhere other than the EU. There is a big decrease in the
:02:54. > :02:59.number of New Zealanders who came in the last quarter for which figures
:03:00. > :03:04.are available, but a huge increase in people coming from the continent.
:03:05. > :03:07.Does it really make sense to stop our second cousins coming so that we
:03:08. > :03:13.can allow people freely to come from the continent? I do not think so, we
:03:14. > :03:16.need to have domestic control of our borders in the interests of the
:03:17. > :03:19.United Kingdom. There are still lots more people coming from the rest of
:03:20. > :03:28.the world than from the European Union. That has been changing. But
:03:29. > :03:32.there are still more. A lot more. The permanent residence coming from
:03:33. > :03:38.the European Union are extremely high. In the period when the Labour
:03:39. > :03:44.Party was in charge, we had to put 5 million people coming here, of whom
:03:45. > :03:51.about 1 billion were from Poland. -- we had 2.5 million people coming
:03:52. > :03:56.here. We have no control over them. Like the clock behind you, you are
:03:57. > :03:59.behind the times on these figures. I have stopped the clock for your
:04:00. > :04:06.benefit, because it was going to chime otherwise! I thought that
:04:07. > :04:16.might be distracting! Only a Tory backbencher could stop a clock!
:04:17. > :04:22.Helen, when you at this up, it is preparing to get out, is it not? We
:04:23. > :04:25.have had this one bill about a referendum that seems to have tied
:04:26. > :04:32.us up in knots for months on end. If Parliament could scrutinise every
:04:33. > :04:36.piece of EU legislation, we would never get anything else done. It
:04:37. > :04:42.would be incredible. Even Chris Grayling said earlier that you can
:04:43. > :04:48.not have a national veto on anything that the EU proposes. I am surprised
:04:49. > :04:51.that Jacob Rees Mogg is talking about dismantling one of Margaret
:04:52. > :04:57.Thatcher's most important legacies, the creation of the single market,
:04:58. > :05:01.and the person sent there to dream it up under Margaret Thatcher said
:05:02. > :05:05.the only way you can run this sensibly is by not having national
:05:06. > :05:09.vetoes, because if you have that, guess what will happen? The French
:05:10. > :05:13.will impose lots of protectionist measures. It was Margaret
:05:14. > :05:17.Thatcher's idea that national parliaments should never veto. How
:05:18. > :05:29.could you fly in the face of the lady? Even the great lady makes
:05:30. > :05:31.mistakes. Excuse me, Jacob Rees Mogg says even Margaret Thatcher makes
:05:32. > :05:38.mistakes! No wonder the clock has stopped! Even be near divine
:05:39. > :05:46.Margaret made a mistake! But on the single market, it has been used as
:05:47. > :05:49.an excuse for massive origination of domestic affairs. We should be
:05:50. > :05:53.interested in free trade in Europe and allowing people to export and
:05:54. > :05:58.import freely, not to have uniform regulations, as per the single
:05:59. > :06:04.market, because what that allows is thought unelected bureaucrats to
:06:05. > :06:07.determine the regular vision. We want the British people to decide
:06:08. > :06:11.the rules for themselves. If this makes the single market not work,
:06:12. > :06:17.that is not the problem, because we can still have free trade, which is
:06:18. > :06:23.more important. If David Cameron is watching this, I am sure he is, it
:06:24. > :06:28.will be nice for you to come on and give us an interview, he must be
:06:29. > :06:34.worried. He is beginning to think, I am losing control. It is a clever
:06:35. > :06:40.letter, the tone is ingratiating and pleasant, every time, you have stood
:06:41. > :06:44.up to Brussels, you have achieved something, but the content is
:06:45. > :06:49.dramatic. If you want Parliament to have a veto, you want to leave the
:06:50. > :06:53.EU, because the definition is accepting the primacy of European
:06:54. > :06:58.law. The MPs should be clear about that. It is almost a year since the
:06:59. > :07:03.Europe speech in which David Cameron committed to the referendum. The
:07:04. > :07:08.political objective was to put that issue to bed until the next
:07:09. > :07:12.election. It has failed. David Cameron is going to have to pull off
:07:13. > :07:16.a major miracle in any renegotiations to satisfy all of
:07:17. > :07:23.this. Yes, it makes me think how much luckier he has been in
:07:24. > :07:26.coalition with the Liberal Democrats, because there is a bit of
:07:27. > :07:31.the Tory party that is irreconcilable to what he wants to
:07:32. > :07:34.do. The Conservative MPs are making these demands just as David Cameron
:07:35. > :07:39.is seeing the debate goes his way in Europe. Angela Merkel has looked
:07:40. > :07:44.over the cliff and said, do I want the UK out? No, they are a
:07:45. > :07:49.counterbalance to France. France one the UK to leave, but they do not,
:07:50. > :07:55.because they do not want to lose the only realistic military power Tom
:07:56. > :08:01.other than themselves. Just when the debate is going David Cameron's way,
:08:02. > :08:06.Jacob Rees Mogg would take us out. Let me move on to another subject.
:08:07. > :08:12.That is nonsense. The debate is not beginning to go David Cameron's way.
:08:13. > :08:15.We are having before us on Monday a bill about European citizenship and
:08:16. > :08:22.spending British taxpayers money so that Europe can go and say we are
:08:23. > :08:28.all EU citizens, but we signed up to being a part of a multinational
:08:29. > :08:31.organisation. The spin that it is going the way of the leader of a
:08:32. > :08:35.political party is one that has been used before, it was said of John
:08:36. > :08:40.Major, it was untrue then and it is now. It is, for the continuing
:08:41. > :08:50.deeper integration of the European Union. I want to ask a quick
:08:51. > :08:53.question. Chris Grayling said to us that the Tories would devise a way
:08:54. > :08:58.in which the British Supreme Court would be supreme in the proper
:08:59. > :09:01.meaning of that, but we could still be within the European Court of
:09:02. > :09:09.Human Rights. Can that circle be squared? I have no idea, the Lord
:09:10. > :09:13.Chancellor is an able man, and I am sure he is good at squaring circles.
:09:14. > :09:18.I am not worried about whether we remain in the convention or not.
:09:19. > :09:24.I am not worried about whether we remain in the convention or not PMQ
:09:25. > :09:30.'s, we saw a bit about this week, Paul Gorgons had died, so the house
:09:31. > :09:33.was more subdued, but he wants a more subdued and serious prime
:09:34. > :09:38.ministers questions. Let's remind ourselves what it was like until
:09:39. > :09:42.now. What is clear is that he is
:09:43. > :09:47.floundering around and he has no answer to the Labour Party's energy
:09:48. > :09:51.price freeze. The difference is John Major is a good man, the Right
:09:52. > :09:57.Honourable gentleman is acting like a conman. Across the medical
:09:58. > :10:01.profession, they say there is a crisis in accident and emergency,
:10:02. > :10:07.and we have a Prime Minister saying, crisis, what crisis? How out of
:10:08. > :10:12.touch can hate the? You do not need it to be Christmas to know when you
:10:13. > :10:20.are sitting next to a turkey. It is not a bad line. Is Ed Miliband
:10:21. > :10:25.trying to change the tone of prime ministers questions? Is he right to
:10:26. > :10:27.do so? The important point is this was a special prime ministers
:10:28. > :10:33.questions, because everybody was really sad and by the death of Paul
:10:34. > :10:38.Goggins and in the country, the legacy of the floods. That was the
:10:39. > :10:43.first question that Ed Miliband asked about, so that cast a pall
:10:44. > :10:47.over proceedings. When it suits him, Ed Miliband would like to take a
:10:48. > :10:52.more statesman-like stance, but will it last? That is how David Cameron
:10:53. > :10:56.started. His first prime ministers questions, he said to Tony Blair, I
:10:57. > :11:02.would like to support you on education, and he did in a vote
:11:03. > :11:06.which meant Tony Blair could see off a naughty operation from Gordon
:11:07. > :11:12.Brown. But it did not last, they are parties with different visions.
:11:13. > :11:18.Jacob Rees Mogg, would you like to see it more subdued? I like a bit of
:11:19. > :11:23.Punch and Judy. You need to have fierce debate and people putting
:11:24. > :11:27.their views passionately, it is excellent. I am not good at it, I
:11:28. > :11:31.sit there quite quietly, but it is great fun, very exciting, and it is
:11:32. > :11:39.the most watched bit of the House of Commons each week. If it got as dull
:11:40. > :11:44.as ditchwater, nobody would pay attention. Three cheers for Punch
:11:45. > :11:49.and Judy. Ed Miliband is going to make a major speech on the economy
:11:50. > :11:53.this week. You can now define the general approach. We had it from
:11:54. > :12:00.Emma Reynolds, we have seen it over energy prices, this market is bust,
:12:01. > :12:05.the market is not working properly, and that will therefore justify
:12:06. > :12:11.substantial government intervention. Intervention which does not
:12:12. > :12:13.necessarily cost money. It is the deletion and reorganising
:12:14. > :12:16.industries. It constitutes an answer to the question which has been
:12:17. > :12:20.hounding him, what is the point of the Labour Party when there is no
:12:21. > :12:24.money left? He says, you do not spend a huge amount fiscally, but
:12:25. > :12:29.you arrange markets to achieve socially just outcomes without
:12:30. > :12:34.expenditure. It is quite serious stance. I am not sure it will
:12:35. > :12:40.survive the rigours of an election campaign, but it is an answer. Is
:12:41. > :12:44.that an approach, to use broken markets, to justify substantial
:12:45. > :12:49.state intervention? Yes, and the other big plank is infrastructure
:12:50. > :12:52.spending. The Lib Dems would not be against capital investment for info
:12:53. > :12:57.structure will stop Emma Reynolds talking about house-building, the
:12:58. > :13:01.idea of pumping money into the economy through infrastructure is
:13:02. > :13:06.something that the Labour Party will look at. Jacob Rees Mogg, you once
:13:07. > :13:12.thought Somerset should have its own time zone, and today, you have
:13:13. > :13:19.delivered on that promise! Live on the Sunday Politics! I try to
:13:20. > :13:23.deliver on my promises! That is all for today, the Daily
:13:24. > :13:28.Politics is on BBC Two every day this week, just before lunch. I
:13:29. > :13:33.aren't back next Sunday here on BBC One at 11am. -- I am back. If it is
:13:34. > :13:39.Sunday, it is the Sunday Politics.