:00:37. > :00:40.Morning folks. Welcome to the Sunday Politics.
:00:41. > :00:43.Fears that Ukraine could face invasion escalate this morning as
:00:44. > :00:47.Russian forces take control of Crimea. President Obama and his
:00:48. > :00:52.European allies tell President Putin to back off. It doesn't sound like
:00:53. > :00:54.he's listening. Shadow Education Secretary Tristram
:00:55. > :00:59.Hunt has started spelling out Labour's plans for schools. So
:01:00. > :01:05.what's the verdict - full marks, or must try harder? He joins us for the
:01:06. > :01:08.Sunday Interview. And all the big political parties
:01:09. > :01:12.are desperate to broaden their appeal. We'll look at some unusual
:01:13. > :01:17.In the East Midlands, ?4,000 to help you insulate your home ` we'll be
:01:18. > :01:20.looking at the government's attempt to relaunch its Green Deal.
:01:21. > :01:24.And the desperate search for more foster carers.
:01:25. > :01:29.and people deal with benefit changes. And tightening household
:01:30. > :01:32.finances. And with me, as always, three
:01:33. > :01:37.journalists who'd make a clean sweep if they were handing out Oscars for
:01:38. > :01:40.political punditry in LA tonight. But just like poor old Leonardo
:01:41. > :01:46.DiCaprio they've never won so much as a Blue Peter badge! Yes, it's
:01:47. > :01:48.Nick Watt, Helen Lewis and Janan Ganesh. Instead of acceptance
:01:49. > :01:53.speeches they'll be tweeting faster than the tears roll down Gwyneth
:01:54. > :01:58.Paltrow's face. Yes, that's as luvvie as we get on this show.
:01:59. > :02:02.Events have been moving quickly in Ukraine this weekend. The interim
:02:03. > :02:04.government in Kiev has put the Ukrainian military on full combat
:02:05. > :02:09.alert after Russia's parliament rubber-stamped the deployment of
:02:10. > :02:12.Russian troops anywhere in Ukraine. Russian troops seem already to be in
:02:13. > :02:14.control of the mainly Russian-speaking Crimea region,
:02:15. > :02:18.where Russia has a massive naval base. President Obama told President
:02:19. > :02:21.Putin that Russia has flouted international law by sending in
:02:22. > :02:28.Russian troops but the Kremlin is taking no notice. This is now
:02:29. > :02:30.turning into the worst stand-off between Russia and the West since
:02:31. > :02:33.the conflict between Georgia and Russia in 2008, though nobody
:02:34. > :02:40.expects any kind of military response from the West. Foreign
:02:41. > :02:43.Secretary William Hague is on his way to Kiev this morning to show his
:02:44. > :02:47.support for the new government, though how long it will survive is
:02:48. > :02:54.another matter. We can speak to our correspondent David Stern, he's in
:02:55. > :02:59.Kiev. As things look from Kiev, can we
:03:00. > :03:08.take it they've lost Crimea, it is now in all essence under Russian
:03:09. > :03:12.control? Yes, well for the moment, Crimea is under Russian control
:03:13. > :03:19.Russian troops in unmarked uniforms have moved throughout the peninsula
:03:20. > :03:26.taking up various positions, also at the Ismis which links Ukraine into
:03:27. > :03:31.Crimea. They've surrounded Ukrainon troops there. Three units have been
:03:32. > :03:36.captured according to a top officials. We can say at the moment
:03:37. > :03:40.Russia controls the peninsula. It should also be said, also they have
:03:41. > :03:44.the support of the ethnic Russian population. The ethnic Russians make
:03:45. > :03:50.up the majority of the population. They are also not entirely in
:03:51. > :03:56.control because there are other groups, namely the Tatar as and the
:03:57. > :04:02.ethnic Ukrainian speakers who are at least at the moment tacitly
:04:03. > :04:09.resisting. We'll see what they'll start to do in the coming days.
:04:10. > :04:14.David, I'm putting up some pictures showing Russian troops digging in on
:04:15. > :04:18.the border between Crimea and Ukraine. I get the sense that is
:04:19. > :04:25.just for show. There is, I would assume, no possibility that the
:04:26. > :04:31.Ukrainians could attempt to retake Crimea by military force? It seems
:04:32. > :04:36.that the Ukrainians are weighing their options right now. Their
:04:37. > :04:40.options are very limited. Any head-to-head conflict with Russia
:04:41. > :04:45.would probably work against the Ukrainians. They seem to be taking
:04:46. > :04:49.more of a long-term gain. They are waiting for the figs's first move.
:04:50. > :04:55.They are trying not to create any excuse that the Russians can stage
:04:56. > :05:00.an even larger incursion into Crimea or elsewhere, for that matter. They
:05:01. > :05:04.also seem to be trying to get international support. It should be
:05:05. > :05:07.said, this is a new Government. It has only been installed this week.
:05:08. > :05:12.They are trying to gain their footing. This is a major crisis
:05:13. > :05:17.They have to count on the loyalty of the army they might have some
:05:18. > :05:20.resistance from solders from the eastern part of the country who are
:05:21. > :05:25.Russian speaking. They probably could count on Ukrainian speakers
:05:26. > :05:30.and people from the centre and west of the country as well as regular
:05:31. > :05:35.Ukrainians. A lot of people are ready to fight to defend Ukrainian
:05:36. > :05:42.Terre Tory. Where does the Kremlin go next? They have Crimea to all
:05:43. > :05:46.intents and purposes. There's a weak Government in Kiev. Do they move to
:05:47. > :05:51.the eastern side of Ukraine which is largely Russian speaking and there's
:05:52. > :05:55.already been some unrest there? That's the big question, that's what
:05:56. > :05:59.everybody's really asking now. Where does this go from here? We've had
:06:00. > :06:04.some unrest in the eastern part of the country. There have been
:06:05. > :06:09.demonstrations and clashes. More ominously, there have been noises
:06:10. > :06:16.from the Kremlin they might actually move into eastern Ukraine. Putin in
:06:17. > :06:20.his conversation with Barack Obama said they might protect their
:06:21. > :06:24.interests there. It should be said, if they do expand, in fact, they've
:06:25. > :06:32.also said they are dead against the new Government seeing it as
:06:33. > :06:36.illegitimate and fascist. It does contain risks. They will have to
:06:37. > :06:41.deal with international reactions. America said there will be a deep
:06:42. > :06:44.reaction to this and it will affect Russia's relations with Ukraine and
:06:45. > :06:50.the international community. They have to deal with the reaction in
:06:51. > :06:55.Ukraine. This may unite Ukrainians behind this new interim Government.
:06:56. > :07:03.Once Russia moves in, they will be seen as an invading force. It plays
:07:04. > :07:11.on historical feelings of Russia being an imperial force.
:07:12. > :07:14.Joining me is MP Mark Field who sits on the security Security and
:07:15. > :07:20.Intelligence Committee in the House of Commons. What should the western
:07:21. > :07:25.response be to these events? I can understand why William Hague is
:07:26. > :07:33.going to Kiev tomorrow to stand side by side whizz whoever's in charge.
:07:34. > :07:42.They need to CEOP sit numbers and also President Putin. The truth is
:07:43. > :07:49.we are all co significant fatries to the Budapest Memorandum of almost 20
:07:50. > :07:53.years ago which was designed to maintain the integrity of the
:07:54. > :07:58.Ukraine and Crimea. There needs to be a discussion along those lines.
:07:59. > :08:06.The difficulty is President Putin has watched events in recent months,
:08:07. > :08:11.in relation to Syria, it is palpable President Obama's focus of attention
:08:12. > :08:14.ask the other side of the Pacific rather than the Atlantic. The vote
:08:15. > :08:19.in the House of Commons, I was very much against the idea of military
:08:20. > :08:24.action or providing weapons to the free Syrian army. My worry is,
:08:25. > :08:30.events proved this, the majority of the other options toed as sad are
:08:31. > :08:36.rather worse. It is clear now we are in a constitutional mess in this
:08:37. > :08:39.country. We cannot even contemplate military action without a
:08:40. > :08:44.parliamentary vote that moves against quick reaction that is
:08:45. > :08:48.required from the executive or, I suspect, there will be very little
:08:49. > :08:55.appetite for any military action from the West over in Ukraine. We
:08:56. > :09:00.are corn tours under the agreement of less than 20 years ago. We may be
:09:01. > :09:04.but we've guaranteed an agreement which it is clear we haven't the
:09:05. > :09:09.power to enforce. You wrote this morning, Britain is a diminished
:09:10. > :09:14.voice. Clams Iley navigating the Syrian conflict we relick wished
:09:15. > :09:20.decisions to the whims of parliamentary approval. That may or
:09:21. > :09:28.may not be but the Kremlin's not watching how we voted on the Syrian
:09:29. > :09:33.issue? In relation to Syria, it was where is the western resolve here.
:09:34. > :09:37.The truth ask Putin's position is considerably less strong. In
:09:38. > :09:43.diplomatic terms. He had a victory in Syria in relation to chemical
:09:44. > :09:51.weapons and in relation to the West's relationship with Iran. Putin
:09:52. > :09:56.is a vital inter locking figure In demographic and economic terms,
:09:57. > :10:01.Russia's in very deep trouble. The oil price started to fall to any
:10:02. > :10:05.degree, oil and gas price, given the importance of mineral wealth and
:10:06. > :10:12.exports for the Russian economy Putin would be in a lot of trouble.
:10:13. > :10:17.It requires an engagement from the EU and the EU are intending to look
:10:18. > :10:21.at their internal economic problems and will be smarting from the
:10:22. > :10:25.failure within a matter of hours of the deal they tried to broker only
:10:26. > :10:30.nine days' ago. You say if Mr Putin decides to
:10:31. > :10:34.increase the stakes and moves into the east, takes over the whole
:10:35. > :10:39.place, our Government, you say, will find itself with another colossal
:10:40. > :10:44.international headache. Some people watching this will be thinking,
:10:45. > :10:49.what's it got to do with us? It s a long way away from Britain. We
:10:50. > :10:55.haven't a dog in this fight? We have in this regard for the longer term
:10:56. > :10:59.here. I think if there were to be some military action in Ukraine the
:11:00. > :11:03.sense of Russia taking over, it could have a major impact on the
:11:04. > :11:08.global economy in very quick order. You should not deny that. There will
:11:09. > :11:13.be move to have sanctions against Russia. The escalation of that will
:11:14. > :11:21.be difficult. The other fact is looking at our internal affairs and
:11:22. > :11:27.reform, partners, the Baltic states, Finland, Poland, the Czech Republic,
:11:28. > :11:32.they will be looking at a resurgent Russia now and think they'll need to
:11:33. > :11:37.hold as tightly as possible to the EU institutions and the power of
:11:38. > :11:45.Germany at the centre of that. This whole appetite for the reforms
:11:46. > :11:50.politically and economically will be closed very much within a matter of
:11:51. > :11:53.a short period of time. It has longer term implications. Mark
:11:54. > :12:03.Field, thank you. We're joined now by BBC News night's
:12:04. > :12:08.Diplomatic Editor Mark Urban. Is there any prospect of a western
:12:09. > :12:17.military response? Clearly at the moment, it is nil. The boat has
:12:18. > :12:22.sailed with the Crimean. It has been per performed by Russian forces It
:12:23. > :12:27.is now a matter of coordinating a plate cal line. European foreign
:12:28. > :12:32.ministers tomorrow. To say what will our future limits be? Where could we
:12:33. > :12:38.possibly draw red lines? To try to think a couple of steps down this,
:12:39. > :12:42.what happens if Russia interrupts energy supplies to EU member states
:12:43. > :12:46.ornate owe countries? These are the important steps they have to think
:12:47. > :12:51.about. It is quite clear we are in a different world here now. Also,
:12:52. > :12:55.Ukraine is facing a urgent foreign exchange crisis. Within literally a
:12:56. > :13:00.few weeks they could run out of money. All of these are rushing
:13:01. > :13:07.towards decision makers very fast. There is an interim and I suggestion
:13:08. > :13:11.unstable Government in Kiev. Crimea semi-to be under Russian control.
:13:12. > :13:13.There are clashes between the reformers and Russian nationals in
:13:14. > :13:19.the east of the country. What does Mr Putin do next? He has lots of
:13:20. > :13:23.options, of course. He has this carte blanch carte blanch from his
:13:24. > :13:30.Parliament to go in to the rest of Ukraine if he wants to. His military
:13:31. > :13:35.deployment suggests the one bite at a time, just Crimea to start with.
:13:36. > :13:39.See what response comes from the Ukrainian Government. Of course so
:13:40. > :13:43.far, there hasn't been a coherent response. The really worrying thing
:13:44. > :13:48.about recent months, not just recent days, are the indications that the
:13:49. > :13:56.future of Ukraine as a unitary state is now in doubt. Look at it from the
:13:57. > :14:01.other side of the equation. The President when faced with
:14:02. > :14:06.demonstrations, many extremists he was unable to deal with that. Now we
:14:07. > :14:10.have the other side, if you like, the Russian speakers, the other side
:14:11. > :14:16.of the fight, Russian nationalists showing they can get away with
:14:17. > :14:24.unilateral action more or less with impunity. The Ukrainian chiefs have
:14:25. > :14:28.been sacked. I think there are considerable questions now as to
:14:29. > :14:34.whether Ukraine is falling apart and, if that happens, we're into a
:14:35. > :14:39.Yugoslav-type situation which will continue posing very serious
:14:40. > :14:47.questions for the EU and NATO for months or years to come. So, Janan,
:14:48. > :14:53.Ukraine is over? Where the west to concede to the Russian in Crimea, it
:14:54. > :15:01.would perversely be a net loss for Russia. You'd assume the rest of
:15:02. > :15:07.Ukraine would become an un unambiguously a member of the the
:15:08. > :15:13.EU, maybe NATO. On top of that a Russian dream of Eurasion dream
:15:14. > :15:18.they will look at Putin's behaviour and is a, no, thanks, we'll head
:15:19. > :15:31.towards the EU. It is a short-term victory for Putin which backfires on
:15:32. > :15:39.his broader goals in Well, many people said if he grabs Crimea, he
:15:40. > :15:43.loses Ukraine, which is your point. We have seen violent demonstrations
:15:44. > :15:48.in the big eastern cities in Ukraine yesterday. People taking control of
:15:49. > :15:53.certain buildings. The risk is there of spreading beyond Crimea. I think
:15:54. > :15:56.the lack of any unified or visible response from Ukrainian armed
:15:57. > :16:00.forces... They allowed Russian troops to walk into the bases in
:16:01. > :16:04.Crimea. They have supposedly gone on red alert but they have done
:16:05. > :16:08.absolutely nothing. We don't see them deploying from barracks. There
:16:09. > :16:16.are serious questions about whether they would just fall apart. Putin is
:16:17. > :16:20.not going to let them split away. I would have thought he would like the
:16:21. > :16:26.entire Ukraine to come into the Russian ambit. Barack Obama is
:16:27. > :16:31.saying this will not stand. He has a 90 minute conversation with Vladimir
:16:32. > :16:35.Putin and what is his response? I am suspending my cooperation in the
:16:36. > :16:42.run-up to the Sochi Summit. What is the EU doing? Nothing. There is
:16:43. > :16:45.nothing they can do and Putin knows there are a series of lines that he
:16:46. > :16:53.is able to cross and get away with it. Why should Berlin, London,
:16:54. > :16:57.Washington be surprised by the strength of Vladimir Putin's
:16:58. > :17:02.reaction? It was never going to let Ukraine just fall into the arms of
:17:03. > :17:07.the EU. That is the interesting point. And who does he listen to?
:17:08. > :17:10.Paddy Ashdown was saying sent Angela Merkel because she is the only
:17:11. > :17:14.person who can talk to him and I find that response worrying. We need
:17:15. > :17:18.to speak with a united voice but nobody knows what we should be
:17:19. > :17:23.saying. Military intervention is out for the West so we go to economic
:17:24. > :17:30.sanctions. Doesn't Vladimir Putin just say, oh, you want sanctions? I
:17:31. > :17:33.have turned off the gas tap. Yes, it is move and countermove, and it is
:17:34. > :17:38.difficult to predict where it will end up. In all these meetings that
:17:39. > :18:12.are being held, they do think a step or two ahead and try and set out
:18:13. > :18:14.clear lines. Thank you for coming in this morning.
:18:15. > :18:16.Labour has been struggling since 2010 to decide exactly how to take
:18:17. > :18:18.education secretary Michael Gove, one of the boldest reformers of the
:18:19. > :18:20.coalition and most divisive figures. Ed Miliband appointed TV historian
:18:21. > :18:23.Tristram Hunt and many thought Labour had found the man to teach
:18:24. > :18:25.Michael Gove a lesson. But how much do we really know about the party's
:18:26. > :18:28.plans for England's schools? Wales, Scotland and Northern Ireland are a
:18:29. > :18:31.devolved matter. Child has been back to school to find out. A politician
:18:32. > :18:32.once told me, do you know why education secretaries changed
:18:33. > :18:35.schools? Because they can. Michael Gove might dispute the motive but he
:18:36. > :18:37.is changing schools, like this one. The changes he is ringing in our
:18:38. > :18:39.encouraging them to be academies, free from local authorities to
:18:40. > :18:42.control their own budgets, ushering in free schools, focusing on
:18:43. > :18:44.toughening exams and making them the core of the curriculum with less
:18:45. > :18:49.coursework, and offering heads more discretion on tougher discipline.
:18:50. > :18:53.And he is in a hurry to put all this in place. But has that shut out any
:18:54. > :18:58.chance for a Labour Government to change it all themselves and do they
:18:59. > :19:04.really want to? Any questions? Visiting a different school, first
:19:05. > :19:07.in line to get a crack at that would-be Labour's third shadow
:19:08. > :19:12.education secretary since 2010, Tristram Hunt. In post, he has not
:19:13. > :19:15.been taken about fine tuning previous direct opposition to free
:19:16. > :19:20.schools and he has also suggested teachers in England would have to be
:19:21. > :19:23.licensed under a Labour Government, allowing the worst to be sacked and
:19:24. > :19:28.offering training and development to others and of course ending
:19:29. > :19:31.coalition plans to allow unqualified teachers into classrooms. Full
:19:32. > :19:43.policy detail is still unmarked work. Your opinion about evolution?
:19:44. > :19:48.What is very clear is that Labour's education policy is still evolving.
:19:49. > :19:52.We are learning that they have some clear water, but we also seem, from
:19:53. > :19:56.the sting at the back, to get the feeling that there is not a great
:19:57. > :20:00.deal of difference from them and the current Government on types of
:20:01. > :20:06.schools and the way education should proceed. -- from listening at the
:20:07. > :20:11.back. So what exactly is different about their policy? What Tristram
:20:12. > :20:16.Hunt's job is to do is to be open and honest about the shared agenda
:20:17. > :20:19.between us and the Tories. There are a lot of areas where there is clear
:20:20. > :20:25.water between us and Tristram Hunt as to turn his back, shared agenda,
:20:26. > :20:30.stop fighting it, and forge our agenda, which I think people will be
:20:31. > :20:35.really interested in. The art of Government, of course, is to balance
:20:36. > :20:39.competing pictures of policy, even inside your own party. It is fair to
:20:40. > :20:44.say that if Labour reflects and draws its own visions of a shared
:20:45. > :20:47.agenda, it might have to square that idea with teaching unions, who are
:20:48. > :20:52.already unhappy with the pace and tone of change that the Government
:20:53. > :20:56.had sketched out. What we sincerely hope is that if Labour were to form
:20:57. > :21:20.the next Government, that they would look at a serious review of
:21:21. > :21:22.accountability measures. That is really what ways on teachers every
:21:23. > :21:24.single day. Actually they would look at restoring the possibility, for
:21:25. > :21:27.example, of local councillors to be able to open schools. That seems
:21:28. > :21:29.eminently sensible. If they are not going to move back from the free
:21:30. > :21:32.schools and academies programme at the very least they need to say that
:21:33. > :21:34.academy chains will be inspected because at the moment they are not.
:21:35. > :21:36.Labour have balls in the air on education and are still throwing
:21:37. > :21:39.around precise policy detail. There are areas that they could grab hold
:21:40. > :21:41.of and seize possession. A focus on the rounding of the people,
:21:42. > :21:43.developing character, the impact of digitalisation on the classroom
:21:44. > :21:46.Also the role and handling of teachers in the system and the
:21:47. > :21:52.interdependence of schools. That is all still to play for. Currently I
:21:53. > :21:55.think the difference between the parties is that the coalition
:21:56. > :22:01.policies, while we do not agree with all of them, are clear and explicit,
:22:02. > :22:08.and Labour's policies are yet to be formulated in a way that everybody
:22:09. > :22:11.can understand clearly. I don't think that Tristram Hunt or Miliband
:22:12. > :22:18.will want to pick unnecessary fights before the election. I think we will
:22:19. > :22:24.have quite a red, pinkish fuzziness around the whole area of policy but
:22:25. > :22:31.after the election there will be grey steel from Tristram Hunt. But
:22:32. > :22:34.if fuzzy policy before the election is the lesson plan, it does rather
:22:35. > :22:39.risk interested voters being left in the dark.
:22:40. > :22:51.Tristram Hunt joins me now for the Sunday interview.
:22:52. > :22:56.Welcome. Thank you. Which of Michael Gove's school reforms would you
:22:57. > :22:59.repeal? We are not interested in throwing a change for the sake of
:23:00. > :23:02.it. When I go round schools, teachers have been through very
:23:03. > :23:06.aggressive changes in the last three years, so when it comes to some of
:23:07. > :23:10.the curriculum reforms we have seen, we are not interested in changing
:23:11. > :23:14.those for the sake of it. Where we are interested in making change is
:23:15. > :23:18.having a focus on technical and vocational education, making sure
:23:19. > :23:23.that the forgotten 15% is properly addressed in our education system.
:23:24. > :23:27.What we saw in your package was an interesting description of how we
:23:28. > :23:31.have seen structural reforms in the names of schools. Academies, free
:23:32. > :23:34.schools, all the rest of it. International evidence is clear that
:23:35. > :23:37.it is the quality of leadership of the headteachers and the quality of
:23:38. > :23:41.teaching in the classroom that transforms the prospects of young
:23:42. > :23:46.people. Instead of tinkering around the names of schools, we focus on
:23:47. > :23:49.teacher quality. Viewers will be shocked to note that this Government
:23:50. > :24:04.approves of unqualified teachers in the classroom. We want to have fully
:24:05. > :24:07.qualified, passionate, motivated teachers in the classroom. It sounds
:24:08. > :24:10.like you might not repeal anything. You might build on it and you might
:24:11. > :24:12.go in a different direction, with more emphasis on technological
:24:13. > :24:14.education but no major repeal of the reforms of Michael Gove? I don't
:24:15. > :24:19.think you want to waste energy on undoing reforms. In certain
:24:20. > :24:24.situations they build on Labour Party policy. We introduced the
:24:25. > :24:28.sponsored academy programmes and we began the Teach First programmes,
:24:29. > :24:34.and we began the London challenge which transformed the educational
:24:35. > :24:38.prospects of children in London We want to roll that out across the
:24:39. > :24:43.country. You have said there will be no more free schools, which Michael
:24:44. > :24:46.Gove introduced, but you will allow parents let academies, which just
:24:47. > :24:56.means free schools by a different name. No, because they will be in
:24:57. > :25:00.certain areas. We want to create new schools with parents. What we have
:25:01. > :25:03.at the moment is a destructive and market-driven approach to
:25:04. > :25:08.education. I was in Stroud on Thursday and plans for a big new
:25:09. > :25:12.school, in an area with surplus places, threatened to destroy the
:25:13. > :25:16.viability of local, rural schools. We want schools to work together in
:25:17. > :25:20.a network of partnership and challenge, rather than this
:25:21. > :25:46.destructive market-driven approach. You say that, but your version of
:25:47. > :25:48.free schools, I think, would only be allowed where there is a shortage of
:25:49. > :25:51.places. That means that where there is an excess of bad schools, parents
:25:52. > :25:54.will have no choice. They still have to send their kids to bad schools.
:25:55. > :25:57.And we have to transform bad schools and that was always the Labour way
:25:58. > :25:58.in Government. At the moment we just have an insertion of new schools.
:25:59. > :26:01.Schools currently underperforming are now underperforming even more.
:26:02. > :26:03.Children only have one chance at education. What about their time in
:26:04. > :26:05.school? Our focus is on the leadership of the headteacher and
:26:06. > :26:08.having quality teachers in the classroom. So they cannot set up new
:26:09. > :26:11.better schools and they have to go to the bad schools. Tony Blair said
:26:12. > :26:13.it should be easier for parents to set up new schools where they are
:26:14. > :26:17.dissatisfied with existing schools. You are not saying that. Even where
:26:18. > :26:20.they are dissatisfied with existing schools, they cannot set up free
:26:21. > :26:26.schools and you are reneging on that. We live in difficult economic
:26:27. > :26:31.circumstances where we have got to focus public finances on the areas
:26:32. > :26:37.of absolute need. We need 250,0 0 new school places. 150,000 in London
:26:38. > :26:45.alone. We have to focus on building new schools and where we have to put
:26:46. > :26:49.them. And secondly... Absolutely not. Focusing on those schools.
:26:50. > :26:54.Making sure we turned them around, just as we did in Government. We
:26:55. > :26:58.have had a remarkable degree of waste under the free school
:26:59. > :27:03.programme. If you think of the free school in Derby, the Academy in
:27:04. > :27:06.Bradford, and as we saw in the Telegraph on Friday, the free
:27:07. > :27:09.schools in Suffolk, a great deal of waste of public money on
:27:10. > :27:13.underperforming free schools. That is not the Labour way. We focus on
:27:14. > :27:18.making sure that kids in schools at the moment get the best possible
:27:19. > :27:24.education. Except that in your own backyard, in Stoke, only 34% of
:27:25. > :27:32.secondary school pupils attend a good or outstanding school. 148 out
:27:33. > :27:35.of 150 of the worst performing local authorities and it is
:27:36. > :27:40.Labour-controlled. Still terrible schools and yet you say parents
:27:41. > :27:44.should not have the freedom to start a better school. We have great
:27:45. > :27:47.schools in Stoke-on-Trent as well. We face challenges, just as
:27:48. > :27:53.Wolverhampton does and the Isle of Wight and Lincolnshire. Just like
:27:54. > :27:57.large parts of the country. What is the solution to that? Making sure we
:27:58. > :28:02.share excellence among the existing schools and making sure we have
:28:03. > :28:05.quality leadership in schools. Those schools in Stoke-on-Trent are all
:28:06. > :28:09.academies. It is not a question only of structure but of leadership. It
:28:10. > :28:12.is also a question of going back to the responsibility of parents to
:28:13. > :28:16.make sure their kids are school ready when they get to school. To
:28:17. > :28:51.make sure they are reading to their children in the evening. We can t
:28:52. > :28:53.put it all on teachers. Parents have responsibilities. I understand that
:28:54. > :28:56.but you have told me Labour's policy would not be to set up new schools
:28:57. > :28:58.which parents hope will be better. Parents continue to send their kids
:28:59. > :29:01.to bad schools in areas like Stoke. Labour has had plenty of time to
:29:02. > :29:04.sort out these schools in Stoke and they are still among the worst
:29:05. > :29:06.performing in the country. You are condemning these parents to having
:29:07. > :29:09.to send their kids to bad schools. Where we have seen the sett ing up
:29:10. > :29:12.of Derby, Suffolk, we have seen that is not the simple solution. Is
:29:13. > :29:14.simply setting up a new is not a successful model. What works is good
:29:15. > :29:17.leadership. I was in Birmingham on Friday at a failing comprehensive is
:29:18. > :29:19.not a successful model. What works is good leadership. I was in
:29:20. > :29:22.Birmingham on Friday at a failing comprehensive school and now people
:29:23. > :29:24.are queueing round the block to get into it. You can turn around schools
:29:25. > :29:26.with the right leadership, passionate and motivated teachers,
:29:27. > :29:31.and parents engaged with the learning outcome of their kids. In
:29:32. > :29:36.the last few years of the Labour Government, only four kids from your
:29:37. > :29:39.this Government would set up the new school. In Birmingham, they got in a
:29:40. > :29:41.great headmaster and turned the school around and now people are
:29:42. > :29:44.queueing round the block to get into it. You can turnaround schools with
:29:45. > :29:46.the right leadership, passionate and motivated teachers, and parents
:29:47. > :29:48.engaged with the learning outcome of their kids. In the last few years of
:29:49. > :29:51.a Labour Government, only four kids from your area of and you had plenty
:29:52. > :29:55.of chances to put this right but only four got to the two and you had
:29:56. > :30:00.plenty of chances to put this right but only four got to the two leading
:30:01. > :30:04.universities. Traditionally young people could leave school at 16 and
:30:05. > :30:07.walking two jobs in the potteries, the steel industry, the
:30:08. > :30:10.traditionally young people could leave school at 16 and walking two
:30:11. > :30:16.jobs in the potteries, the steel industry, the but also to get an
:30:17. > :30:23.apprenticeship at Jaguar Land Rover, JCB, Rolls-Royce. That is why
:30:24. > :30:29.Ed Miliband's focus on the forgotten 15%, which we have just not seen
:30:30. > :30:40.from this Government, focusing on technical and vocational pathways,
:30:41. > :30:56.is fundamental to Your headmaster was guiles Slaughter. Was he a good
:30:57. > :31:03.teacher? He He never taught me. Over 90% of teeners in the private
:31:04. > :31:07.sector are qualified. They look for not simply teachers with qualified
:31:08. > :31:11.teacher status. Teachers with MAs. Teachers who are improving them
:31:12. > :31:20.cephalitis. Becoming better educators.
:31:21. > :31:20.cephalitis. Becoming better teaching. You were taught by
:31:21. > :31:26.unqualified teachers. Your parents paid over ?15,000 a year for you
:31:27. > :31:30.being taught by unqualified teachers. Why did you make such a
:31:31. > :31:34.big deal of it? Because we've seen right around the world those
:31:35. > :31:41.education systems which focus on having the most qualified teachers
:31:42. > :31:48.perform the best. It cannot be right that anyone can simply turn up, as
:31:49. > :31:51.at the moment, have schools at veritising for unqualified teachers
:31:52. > :31:58.teaching in the classroom. We want the best qualified teachers with the
:31:59. > :32:04.deepest subject knowledge, for the passion in learning for their kids.
:32:05. > :32:08.It is absurd we are having arguments about this. Simply having a paper
:32:09. > :32:14.qualification doesn't make you a great teacher. Let me take you to
:32:15. > :32:20.Brighton college. It is gone from the 147th to the 18 18th best
:32:21. > :32:34.private school in the land. Fllt the headmaster says:
:32:35. > :32:47.This is the top Sundaytimes school of the year. The school in derby
:32:48. > :32:50.where this Government allowed unqualified teaching assist taints.
:32:51. > :32:54.We had teachers who could barely speak English. That is because if
:32:55. > :32:58.you have unqualified teachers you end up with a dangerous situation.
:32:59. > :33:03.The problem with that school was not unqualified teachers. People were
:33:04. > :33:08.running that school who were unfit to run a school. We have an issue
:33:09. > :33:12.about discipline and behaviour management in some of our schools.
:33:13. > :33:16.Some of the skills teachers gain through qualifications and learning
:33:17. > :33:21.is how to manage classes and get the best out of kids at every stage. It
:33:22. > :33:27.doesn't end with a qualified teacher status. That's just the beginning.
:33:28. > :33:31.We want our teachers to have continue it will development. It is
:33:32. > :33:37.not good enough to have your initial teacher trainingaged work through
:33:38. > :33:42.your career for 30 years. You need continual learning. Learning how to
:33:43. > :33:47.deal with digital technology. Refresh your subject knowledge. As
:33:48. > :33:53.an historian I help teachers. You've taught as an unqualified teacher.
:33:54. > :33:59.Not in charge of a subject group. I give the odd lecture. I'm-y to go to
:34:00. > :34:03.as many schools as possible. I don't blame you. It is uplifting. Would
:34:04. > :34:11.you sack all unqualified teachers? We'd want them all to gain teacher
:34:12. > :34:16.status. What if they say no? If they are not interested in improving
:34:17. > :34:24.skills and deepening their knowledge they should not be in the classroom.
:34:25. > :34:28.If a free school or academy hired a teach thinking they are a great
:34:29. > :34:34.teacher but unqualified, if they are then forced by you to fire them,
:34:35. > :34:37.they will be in breach of the law. They are being urged by us to make
:34:38. > :34:43.sure they have qualified teacher status. We've lots of unqualified
:34:44. > :34:47.teachers as long as they are on the pathway to making sure they are
:34:48. > :34:52.qualified. But if they say they don't want to do this, will you fire
:34:53. > :34:56.them? It is not an unreasonable suggestion is that the teachers in
:34:57. > :35:00.charge of our young people have qualifications to teach and inspire
:35:01. > :35:06.our young people particularly when we face global competition from
:35:07. > :35:11.Shanghai, Korea and so on. The head teacher of Brighton college finds
:35:12. > :35:16.incredibly inspeechational teachers who don't' necessarily have a
:35:17. > :35:24.teaching qualifications. It is a different skill to teach ten young
:35:25. > :35:28.nice boys and girls in Brighton to teaches 20 or 30 quids with
:35:29. > :35:32.challenging circumstances, special educational needs, different
:35:33. > :35:37.ability. Being a teacher at Brighton college is an easy gig in comparison
:35:38. > :35:43.to other schools. Where we want teachers to have a capacity to teach
:35:44. > :35:51.properly. Do you think Tristram could ever lead the Labour Party? I
:35:52. > :35:55.think Ed is a great leader, the reforms yesterday were a real sign
:35:56. > :35:58.for his leadership. And the fact David Owen, the man with a
:35:59. > :36:04.pre-history with our party is back with us. It is great. Even Gideon
:36:05. > :36:13.had to change his name to George. Have you thought of switching to
:36:14. > :36:18.Tommy or Tony? Maybe not Tony! Michael Foot was called Dingle Foot.
:36:19. > :36:22.I love the Labour because it accepts everybody from me to Len McCluskey.
:36:23. > :36:26.We are a big, broad happy family on our way to Government. Thank you
:36:27. > :36:32.very much. You're watching The Sunday Politics.
:36:33. > :36:37.We say goodbye to viewers in Scotland who leave us for Sunday
:36:38. > :36:45.politics Scotland. In over 20 minutes I'll look at
:36:46. > :36:50.In the East Midlands, could you turn someone's life around? The desperate
:36:51. > :36:54.plea for more people to come forward as foster carers.
:36:55. > :36:59.It does in a way surprise me that not so many people are wanting to
:37:00. > :37:06.foster or adopt children. So yeah, I think more people should.
:37:07. > :37:10.Just have a look at how much loft insulation you've got up here.
:37:11. > :37:14.??WHIT E And ?4,000 cashback for insulating your home ` we'll be
:37:15. > :37:17.looking at a new lease of life for a scheme designed to give us all lower
:37:18. > :37:21.electricity bills. ?? I'm Marie Ashby, and my guests
:37:22. > :37:23.this week, the Liberal Democrat Parliamentary candidate for
:37:24. > :37:25.Ashfield, and on Nottinghamshire County Council Jason Zadrozny, and
:37:26. > :37:32.Labour's MP for Nottingham South, Lilian Greenwood.
:37:33. > :37:35.But first, it's been a big week in the battle over council cuts, with
:37:36. > :37:39.two of our councils approving controversial budgets. There were
:37:40. > :37:41.protests at County Hall in West Bridgford, as Nottinghamshire County
:37:42. > :37:46.Council approved ?80 million of cuts. The new budget withdraws
:37:47. > :37:51.funding to Nottingham Playhouse, homeless groups and youth services.
:37:52. > :38:01.Leicester City Council is looking to cut ?40 million and 100 jobs, and
:38:02. > :38:05.services are being hit there too. Jason, you are a County Council in
:38:06. > :38:10.Nottinghamshire. Did you accept these cuts have to be made? I think
:38:11. > :38:15.we agreed with it might of money that needed to be saved, but
:38:16. > :38:20.certainly my group and almost every opposition councillor for their work
:38:21. > :38:25.other ways to do it. Alternative budget showed that. So we could have
:38:26. > :38:29.saved some of those vital front`line services without making such big
:38:30. > :38:34.changes to people's lives. But how could they have not make those
:38:35. > :38:38.changes? You need to actually put your shoulder to the wheel and be
:38:39. > :38:44.more creative. The alternate budgets look at ways of outsourcing some of
:38:45. > :38:47.the back office things, planning services, and saving money there.
:38:48. > :38:54.And they are already doing things like that? Some of it, but that
:38:55. > :38:58.cancelled times over `` terms of over half ?1 billion per year. A
:38:59. > :39:05.Labour authority cutting grants to the homeless. Surely there must have
:39:06. > :39:09.been some other way of doing this. These are cuts that absolutely
:39:10. > :39:12.nobody would want, and I know lots of Labour councillors are struggling
:39:13. > :39:18.with this, but the Government has cut the amount of money available by
:39:19. > :39:22.40% in this Parliament and made really unfair cuts. The councils
:39:23. > :39:28.with the most deprivation have been cut the most. In Nottinghamshire
:39:29. > :39:32.County they have lost ?63 per person compared with some of the least
:39:33. > :39:34.deprived areas like summary and Nottinghamshire which have lost
:39:35. > :39:41.about half that amount. The blame lies very squarely with the Lib Dems
:39:42. > :39:48.and Tories and Government. Of course Lilian would say that. Those other
:39:49. > :39:51.councils we talk about had much less to take away from in the first
:39:52. > :39:57.place. The reason Nottinghamshire had a bigger chunk taken away was
:39:58. > :39:59.that it is so reliant on grants. For year after year they have asked for
:40:00. > :40:05.grants instead of diversifying their ink constraint. We have different ``
:40:06. > :40:07.good services we could have charged for.
:40:08. > :40:11.Well, next, there's been a desperate plea for more people to come forward
:40:12. > :40:14.as foster carers, to help some of the most vulnerable children in
:40:15. > :40:18.society. Councils say the number of young people being put into care has
:40:19. > :40:20.rocketed in the wake of child abuse scandals. Our political editor John
:40:21. > :40:23.Hess has been meeting foster carers and people whose lives have been
:40:24. > :40:28.turned around by being placed with a new family.
:40:29. > :40:32.and people whose lives have been Saying thanks, 19`year`old Naomi
:40:33. > :40:37.Maher makes a Chinese Lockhart for a foster mother. She is back home in
:40:38. > :40:41.to ensure after the opportunity of a lifetime food to visit western
:40:42. > :40:47.China. `` love heart. She is also back home to her foster parents.
:40:48. > :40:51.When I first came into care I went to maybe five or six different
:40:52. > :40:56.placements in quite a short period of time, which I guess for anybody
:40:57. > :41:01.could be quite daunting and quite confusing. So I think when I finally
:41:02. > :41:07.came here it was much better for my emotional well`being to be in a
:41:08. > :41:11.stable family. Eleanor Morrison has been Naomi's
:41:12. > :41:17.foster mother for 12 years. I always wanted a big family. I had three
:41:18. > :41:22.children, and so we decided that we could offer something else to some
:41:23. > :41:27.other children. Naomi's step is university, but not every child in
:41:28. > :41:30.care finds a ready`made foster home. In Nottinghamshire there is a real
:41:31. > :41:33.shortage. For councils like Nottinghamshire
:41:34. > :41:38.facing severe budget pressures, this is why it needs to find war foster
:41:39. > :41:42.parents, because the cost of the Council of putting a child in
:41:43. > :41:50.council residential care is almost 2,100 pounds per week impaired to
:41:51. > :41:55.?447 per week, the cost to the Council of putting a child in a
:41:56. > :41:58.foster home. It was the repercussions of the Baby
:41:59. > :42:01.Peter child cruelty case in north London that forced a national of a
:42:02. > :42:10.national overhaul in council all asleep towards child protection.
:42:11. > :42:12.More children are now in care. For Kate Foale, the politician in
:42:13. > :42:18.charge of children's care services, but finds `` means finding more
:42:19. > :42:24.foster parents. There are 400 more children in care than there were
:42:25. > :42:28.four or five years ago. We must the acute budget pressures as well on
:42:29. > :42:36.residential care. `` that must be. Yes, the absolute best place for
:42:37. > :42:40.children is in a loving, caring foster home or adoptive home. Not
:42:41. > :42:44.only is it cheaper, it is much better for them.
:42:45. > :42:47.If only finding foster parents was as easy as picking flowers. The
:42:48. > :42:54.County Council needs 25 extra carers each year. Lisa Creasey is one of
:42:55. > :42:58.them. She and her husband started fostering four years ago. You meet
:42:59. > :43:01.with somebody from the Social Services, you talk about the reasons
:43:02. > :43:07.why you would like to foster, and you spend quite a few weeks, weekly
:43:08. > :43:11.visits, having a social work are coming to see you running through
:43:12. > :43:16.everything, your background, your family's needs, it is quite a
:43:17. > :43:22.lengthy process, and sometimes it can feel quite personal. But as a
:43:23. > :43:28.potential foster carer you want to feel that you are safe to be looking
:43:29. > :43:33.at these children. This is the Chinese word for love.
:43:34. > :43:36.Naomi is starting out her life as a young adult, thanks to foster
:43:37. > :43:41.parents who gave her a warm, loving home when she needed it most. It
:43:42. > :43:47.surprises me that not so many people are wanting to foster or adopt
:43:48. > :43:49.children. So yes, I think more people should.
:43:50. > :43:53.Well, we're joined from our London studio now by Dr Lucy Peake from the
:43:54. > :43:57.Fostering Network ` Lucy, hi, we heard in John's report that there's
:43:58. > :44:05.been this big rise in young people being taken into care. Are
:44:06. > :44:07.politicians doing enough? Avec in general politicians
:44:08. > :44:12.understand the needs of children who are coming into care and the need to
:44:13. > :44:18.recruit more foster care was to look after them. But the financial
:44:19. > :44:22.packages are in place `` must be in place, to support those foster
:44:23. > :44:25.carers who are providing the care to those vulnerable children. So it is
:44:26. > :44:30.about finances to ensure that we recruit your `` right people, but
:44:31. > :44:35.also support those foster carers once they are doing the job. It
:44:36. > :44:40.makes sense to invest in this wisely, because it is so much
:44:41. > :44:44.cheaper for someone to go into foster care than to go into a home.
:44:45. > :44:49.I was a foster carer for three or four years. I always felt the County
:44:50. > :44:53.Council did not invest enough to make people feel like it was
:44:54. > :44:57.something they could do, training and support, and if they can save
:44:58. > :44:59.some money as well they can reinvest that in exactly those things so
:45:00. > :45:03.people can feel confident about offering some support and love in
:45:04. > :45:08.terms of a family for somebody who needs it. And we do more, though Tom
:45:09. > :45:14.when we have been talking about cuts in budgets? Is back can we do more?
:45:15. > :45:18.I think that is one of the challenges that local authorities
:45:19. > :45:24.are facing, but it is also about telling people that they could beat
:45:25. > :45:31.foster carers. It is open to anyone over 21, whether they are unemployed
:45:32. > :45:35.or employed. `` whether they could be foster carers. It is about
:45:36. > :45:43.whether you can offer a loving home to a child but has support needs. It
:45:44. > :45:47.is the `` import that people know there is support available, both
:45:48. > :45:50.financial and training and help. If you are taking on a child from a
:45:51. > :45:55.difficult ground, you want to be wanted you do that. So is there
:45:56. > :46:00.enough money going into this? The Government has said there is no
:46:01. > :46:05.hierarchy of care, but we can see that more Government funding goes
:46:06. > :46:12.into adoption than fostering. So we are keen to say, let us put the
:46:13. > :46:17.money to support fostering as well. There is a huge disparity as well on
:46:18. > :46:20.the amount spent on adoption, I think it is ?50 million, and I think
:46:21. > :46:25.three quarters of a million on fostering. That is at national
:46:26. > :46:28.level. Local authorities are working really hard to continue to recruit
:46:29. > :46:35.foster carers. The challenge as you said is that the are more children
:46:36. > :46:39.coming into care, and also a churn within the foster carer population,
:46:40. > :46:42.so some are retiring and local authorities therefore need to meet
:46:43. > :46:46.the new demand, but also replace those foster carers who are leaving.
:46:47. > :46:52.What was your experience like, Jason? It was quite positive. When
:46:53. > :46:56.you get elected to County Council you cannot be a foster carer any
:46:57. > :47:00.longer. I always felt there was a little bit too much pressure, I had
:47:01. > :47:05.a young boy brought to me, emergency respite, he was there two years. So
:47:06. > :47:11.there was this need that they did not prepare people for properly. It
:47:12. > :47:15.is an incredibly rewarding process. But I think the County Council 's
:47:16. > :47:18.need to do much more to say, if this is for you we will support you
:47:19. > :47:22.better. One of the things Nottinghamshire County Council told
:47:23. > :47:27.us is that one of the big problems they face is that many people are
:47:28. > :47:31.interested in fostering, but more so in younger children, under four
:47:32. > :47:36.years old for example. But they have so many teenagers who need a home.
:47:37. > :47:41.That is similar across the country. We have a real need to recruit
:47:42. > :47:44.foster carers to look after sibling groups, teenagers and children with
:47:45. > :47:47.disabilities. So it is really important we talk about the
:47:48. > :47:51.different types of foster care are available, and we try and reach out
:47:52. > :47:56.to as many people as possible and encourage them to come forward. How
:47:57. > :48:01.can we make it easier, because obviously it is not an easy thing to
:48:02. > :48:06.do obviously to be a foster parent, there are so many hoops and hurdles
:48:07. > :48:11.to go through. We have to give people the confidence that they can
:48:12. > :48:15.be foster carers, that it is about having energy, being able to listen
:48:16. > :48:19.and empathise, and the fact that you will be able to get support in
:48:20. > :48:24.dealing with children with complex needs or learning disabilities.
:48:25. > :48:27.Everybody's teenagers can be a challenge anyway, so I think it is
:48:28. > :48:30.partly about telling people they can be foster carers, but to come back
:48:31. > :48:36.to the other point we were talking about budgets, we need county
:48:37. > :48:39.councils, people like Jason, to be standing up for Nottinghamshire and
:48:40. > :48:46.saying we need fair funding in our county, because if we are having to
:48:47. > :48:50.deal with cuts you have got to make those numbers add up. So why should
:48:51. > :48:54.people do it, why should somebody decide to become a foster parent?
:48:55. > :48:58.Foster carers come forward because they want to make a difference to
:48:59. > :49:05.children's lives. The about whether you want to make a difference to a
:49:06. > :49:15.child's lives, if so that other foster carers.
:49:16. > :49:17.`` if so talk to other foster carers.
:49:18. > :49:20.Now, from giving children a warm welcome to keeping warm and cutting
:49:21. > :49:23.our fuel bills. The Government is planning a relaunch of its Green
:49:24. > :49:26.Deal, a scheme designed to persuade more people to take up energy`saving
:49:27. > :49:30.measures. It's been criticised for being too complicated in the past
:49:31. > :49:33.and take`up's been rather slow, but changes to be unveiled next month
:49:34. > :49:37.should make it easier for people to get cash help to insulate their
:49:38. > :49:41.homes and cut down on their electricity bills. Des Coleman's
:49:42. > :49:47.been finding out what it all means. I am at a typical house in
:49:48. > :49:53.Leicester. Mike is doing a Green Deal assessment. What is that? Are
:49:54. > :49:55.basically carrying out energy performance certificate, the
:49:56. > :50:01.prerequisite to a Green Deal plan. This property is a solid wall
:50:02. > :50:05.construction, so it is of real revelling `` relevance to a Green
:50:06. > :50:09.Deal. You are from the company that
:50:10. > :50:14.employs Mike. He is giving the property and energy rating, which
:50:15. > :50:19.will typically be a two grams, they being the highest and G being the
:50:20. > :50:25.worst. A solid walled house could save customers up to ?750,000 per
:50:26. > :50:30.year on their fuel bills. How is this pay for? It is paid for with a
:50:31. > :50:36.Green Deal finance loan. How that works is if they are typically `` if
:50:37. > :50:42.their typical electron were 100 pounds per month, it might reduce
:50:43. > :50:46.them `` the bill to around ?60 per month, but the customer would still
:50:47. > :50:51.have to repay the Green Deal load which may be ?20 per month. So
:50:52. > :50:55.together with a Green Deal loan and interest, they may be repaying ?80
:50:56. > :51:00.per month but typically they have saved ?20 per month. What measures
:51:01. > :51:04.are we talking? That a lot of measures available, 45 in total, but
:51:05. > :51:10.the main ones are solid wall insulation, cavity insulation, a new
:51:11. > :51:16.condensing boiler, some of the renewable measures like air source
:51:17. > :51:21.heat pumps. The uptake has not been great. No, it has been slow to begin
:51:22. > :51:24.with, but the Government has put new incentives in place, so for a solid
:51:25. > :51:28.walled house such as this one you could get up to ?4000 cashback once
:51:29. > :51:35.the energy efficiency measures have been installed. Is that actually
:51:36. > :51:38.cashback or part of the loan? It is cashback. Once the energy efficiency
:51:39. > :51:43.measure has been installed, the customer will have a voucher they
:51:44. > :51:47.can redeem, and it will actually be cash they are free to spend in any
:51:48. > :51:53.way they choose. Well, Mike has done his assessment
:51:54. > :51:55.and it seems like this House, for an expenditure of ?9,000 on solid wall
:51:56. > :52:04.insulation and loft insulation, can save around 850 pounds per year and
:52:05. > :52:09.get ?400,000 `` ?4000 cashback. Is this a good enough incentive to get
:52:10. > :52:13.thousands of homes taking it up? This is something you have taken a
:52:14. > :52:19.keen interest in. Were these changes make a difference? We all agreed
:52:20. > :52:22.that energy efficiency is important to bringing down bills. The
:52:23. > :52:27.Government scheme is just simply too complex and not sufficiently
:52:28. > :52:34.affordable. It is about loans at interest rates of six. People will
:52:35. > :52:41.spend more on interest rates than they will on the measures.
:52:42. > :52:53.Unfortunately so far, there has only been about 1,200 people had
:52:54. > :52:59.assessment, and 750 taking it up. It has been almost 150,000 assessments
:53:00. > :53:05.done, 1,700 and take it up and 80% of the 150,000 and have either had
:53:06. > :53:10.further work done, are in the process `` progress of it or are
:53:11. > :53:13.considering it. I spoke to the Department of energy and climate
:53:14. > :53:16.change today and those were the figures they presented. They are
:53:17. > :53:20.really positive about it. It has been going a year, this is a
:53:21. > :53:30.programme that will work for decades. We will make people's homes
:53:31. > :53:35.warmer and bring their bills down. Labour have no other plans to change
:53:36. > :53:39.it, they do not like it, but it is an important issue and we need to
:53:40. > :53:43.bring it right. `` make it right. Jason, your figures do not match up
:53:44. > :53:49.with the figures are and the BBC have had. Lilian has been so badly
:53:50. > :53:58.taken up, but people are worried what will happen if they have two
:53:59. > :54:03.sell the houses in the future. `` Green Deal has been so badly taken
:54:04. > :54:06.up. Our scheme would have lower`cost loans for homes and small
:54:07. > :54:10.businesses, and we will be publishing a green paper on this
:54:11. > :54:14.later this year. We have already taken very strong steps to set out
:54:15. > :54:19.what we would do to help people faced with the high costs of energy.
:54:20. > :54:22.You can shake your head, but you look at Nottingham city weather has
:54:23. > :54:30.been huge amounts of work done in our city to tackle energy efficiency
:54:31. > :54:35.for is stop `` where there has been. I have been working on the need for
:54:36. > :54:42.tackling hard to treat properties... But there is a report
:54:43. > :54:48.due to come out from a Nottingham sure `` Nottingham firm that's ``
:54:49. > :54:51.saying that cutting VAT on board as an insulation would be more
:54:52. > :55:04.effective. We tried that in the past. I work for B where they
:55:05. > :55:13.tried VAT holidays on insulation, and they work to a certain level.
:55:14. > :55:15.These things really do work. The Government are investing half ?1
:55:16. > :55:21.billion to subsidise this work to get done more. Maybe it just seems
:55:22. > :55:25.more `` too complicated for people. You have had a scheme in your
:55:26. > :55:30.constituency when the project and select thousands of homes in Clifton
:55:31. > :55:33.hit problems. British Gas announced they were pulling out because of the
:55:34. > :55:37.changes to the way the Government finance schemes like this. What is
:55:38. > :55:47.the latest in Clifton? When the Government announced the changes,
:55:48. > :55:51.British Gas pulled out. The really good news is that the contracts ``
:55:52. > :55:55.the contractors have been working at full pace to get done the work for
:55:56. > :56:01.those people who had already signed up in Clifton North, so we hope
:56:02. > :56:04.people who have already paid their money will get their insulation
:56:05. > :56:06.done, and when people have it done they really appreciate the
:56:07. > :56:14.difference it takes to their bills and have warned their homes fuels.
:56:15. > :56:20.`` their homes feel. There are 3,000 other solid wall on the Clifton
:56:21. > :56:28.estate, and others across the city, the trouble is that eco`has
:56:29. > :56:34.changed, it now cannot be used alongside Green Deal. It costs
:56:35. > :56:36.around maybe 8,000 to ?10,000 to insulate homes, and the sort of
:56:37. > :56:44.people who were in fuel poverty cannot afford these loans. So it is
:56:45. > :56:47.not just Clifton, Derby tell us they have had a similar plan for 7,000
:56:48. > :56:54.homes put on hold cause of similar problems. When you are starting
:56:55. > :56:58.something this massive, and let's face it only took it seriously, only
:56:59. > :57:03.the Lib Dems were championing green courses, but this sort of thing if
:57:04. > :57:08.got right brings people's Bilston, it creates tonnes of jobs and
:57:09. > :57:19.apprenticeships. `` it brings people's bills down. People who were
:57:20. > :57:23.about to change stuck `` start apprenticeships, they are now on
:57:24. > :57:27.hold. We'll have to leave it there. Let's
:57:28. > :57:29.have a look at some of the other stories happening in the East
:57:30. > :57:34.Midlands, in our 60`second round`up. Derby has been named as one of the
:57:35. > :57:36.top 25 places in Europe to invest in by an influential think`tank. The
:57:37. > :57:39.report by fDi Intelligence used measures like economic potential,
:57:40. > :57:46.the ability of its workforce and quality of life.
:57:47. > :57:49.Tory MP Mark Spencer's been taking the bus and the tram to find out
:57:50. > :57:52.what it's like using public transport in his Sherwood
:57:53. > :57:54.constituency. He travelled across his patch, occasionally waiting at
:57:55. > :57:58.the wrong bus stop. We can't even read the timetable
:57:59. > :57:59.correctly so we were stood at the bus stop for too long, freezing
:58:00. > :58:04.cold... He took almost seven hours ` and the
:58:05. > :58:06.comments, by the way, were added by his office.
:58:07. > :58:10.I think it's cost us about ?22 each to do that journey ` but I have to
:58:11. > :58:12.say the whole thing was quite impressive.
:58:13. > :58:15.And finally, Nottingham City Council's Deputy Leader helped to
:58:16. > :58:19.spare the blushes of our political editor John Hess. Graham Chapman
:58:20. > :58:22.lent a helping hand when John's notes blew away ` a rare case of
:58:23. > :58:27.cooperation between press and politicians.
:58:28. > :58:30.Cue the Benny Hill music really there, isn't it? Judging by Mark
:58:31. > :58:32.Spencer's experience though on the trams and the buses, more
:58:33. > :58:40.politicians should be getting out there on public transport, Lilian.
:58:41. > :58:43.Well, I would hope that politicians use public transport themselves
:58:44. > :58:47.anyway. Obviously being an MP for Nottingham that's very easy to do,
:58:48. > :58:51.because we've got such an excellent public transport network.
:58:52. > :58:56.You would say that. How often do you get on the bus, Jason? I don't do it
:58:57. > :59:00.very often. I use the train a fair bit... You don't get on a bus? I
:59:01. > :59:04.don't, I know. And Mark's probably put me off, I was expecting Olive
:59:05. > :59:09.and Blakey to run out there at any moment! I don't think that was his
:59:10. > :59:12.plan, to put you off, I think it was to try and encourage more people to
:59:13. > :59:16.do it, but there you go. Thanks very much indeed, both of
:59:17. > :59:19.you. Next week we've a special report from Afghanistan and the East
:59:20. > :59:22.Midlands troops there ` junior defence minister and Broxtowe MP
:59:23. > :59:26.Anna Soubry joins us in the studio ` and later in the month we're on the
:59:27. > :59:30.road again, with a Europe special from Brussels. We'll be speaking to
:59:31. > :59:34.all of the region's Euro MPs, so if you've got a question for them do
:59:35. > :59:37.let us know. You can contact us by looking for BBC Sunday Politics East
:59:38. > :59:40.Midlands on Facebook, or you can go to our
:59:41. > :59:42.Government to change it. Thank you both for being here. Andrew, back to
:59:43. > :59:55.you. This week grant Shap said he wanted
:59:56. > :00:01.to rebrand the Tories as the workers' party to show it can reach
:00:02. > :00:05.out to blue-collar workers. One Conservative Party MP said they
:00:06. > :00:13.should scrap what he said was their boring old logo. We asked him and
:00:14. > :00:23.two other independent MPs how they'd freshen up their logos.
:00:24. > :00:28.Aspiration's always been our core value. About helping people get on
:00:29. > :00:33.with life. Giving people ladders of opportunity. That's why our symbol
:00:34. > :00:38.must reflect our values of aspiration and why I'm calling for
:00:39. > :00:45.our symbol to be changed from a tree to a ladder which symbolises social
:00:46. > :00:50.mobility and stands up for everything conservatism represents.
:00:51. > :00:55.I like an he will fanned, an animal that never forgets. We're the only
:00:56. > :01:01.party which seems to remember what life was like before the NHS and
:01:02. > :01:04.minimum wage and the global financial crash was caused by too
:01:05. > :01:10.little regulation not too much. We have a leader who can spot the
:01:11. > :01:16.elephant in the room, the lack of women on the Tory frontbench. The
:01:17. > :01:22.republicans in America have had the same idea. Theirs is a suspicious
:01:23. > :01:26.blue. Our would be deepest red. We love our Liberal Democrat bird. Mrs
:01:27. > :01:32.Thatcher called it the dead parrot when we launched it. We won the
:01:33. > :01:37.Eastbourne by-election off the Tories very soon aftered with.
:01:38. > :01:42.Perhaps it feels like we're in a coalition cage but we're escaping
:01:43. > :01:46.that soon. Why does it fly to the right? Most Liberal Democrats would
:01:47. > :01:54.want it to fly to the left. I hope it will soon.
:01:55. > :01:59.Interesting there. Let's stick with the Robert Hall pin one. He was
:02:00. > :02:05.being serious. The others were fun. It is interesting that talking about
:02:06. > :02:11.appealing to the blue collared vote, the upper working class, lower
:02:12. > :02:15.middle class, curiously now neither Mr Cameron nor Mr Miliband has great
:02:16. > :02:23.cut through with these people. But in wanting to be the Workers Party,
:02:24. > :02:29.how do you square that with choosing five old Etonians to draw up four
:02:30. > :02:35.next manifesto. Labour said one of the things was cutting inheritance
:02:36. > :02:38.tax, after all their priorities they went to privilege rather than earned
:02:39. > :02:43.income. Rebranding is not enough. The one question the modernisers
:02:44. > :02:50.never asked themselves when they took party ten years ago is the
:02:51. > :02:53.thing we know as the Conservative Party, salvageable as a brand? I'm
:02:54. > :02:59.beginning to think it isn't. If you look at all public opinion research,
:03:00. > :03:05.there are lots of people in this contrary with Conservative views.
:03:06. > :03:10.They won't vote Tory or contemplate the possibility of voting Tory. Can
:03:11. > :03:16.we get over the electoral problems by relaunching as a different
:03:17. > :03:21.pro-business, pro-worker party. That means new name, new logo. It will
:03:22. > :03:26.mean new people as well. If you say you're on the sides of what Thatcher
:03:27. > :03:30.called the strivers, the people themselves want to see you have
:03:31. > :03:35.strivers in the people who run your party so you know what we've been
:03:36. > :03:40.through, the struggles we've had. How many of the six drawing up the
:03:41. > :03:46.manifesto have had ever a mortgage. The one who's not an old Etonian
:03:47. > :03:51.went to St Paul's. He's a day schoolboy! It is interesting and it
:03:52. > :03:56.was funny you mentioned an elephant. Don't think of an elephant as the
:03:57. > :04:00.title of that book. Calling it the Workers Party draws attention to the
:04:01. > :04:05.Tories biggest electoral weakness. The idea they are a class apart Out
:04:06. > :04:10.of touch. I think it is interesting, they have identified their elections
:04:11. > :04:19.are won or lost by this particular demo graphic of the C 1, and C .
:04:20. > :04:24.Mrs Thatcher got them by the shed load, Tony Blair got them. His
:04:25. > :04:30.failure in 2010 is the reason David Cameron didn't win an overall
:04:31. > :04:34.majority. I'm disappointed with the ladder. You should have a hammer or
:04:35. > :04:39.sickle! The Conservatives have a terrible brand problem. You heard
:04:40. > :04:43.them explaining why they did badly in the Wythenshawe by-election,
:04:44. > :04:47.saying there's quite a large council estate there In 1961, I think the
:04:48. > :04:53.Conservatives won a by-election back then, they were getting through to
:04:54. > :04:56.those sort of voters. There is not a single Conservative councillor in
:04:57. > :05:03.Manchester. They have this terrible problem. You're right for them to
:05:04. > :05:08.pick up on the five Etonians writing their manifesto. David Cameron sir
:05:09. > :05:16.rounding himself with his own. He doesn't have to do that. I seas
:05:17. > :05:24.things like isn't Robert Halpen great. He decides and has his own.
:05:25. > :05:28.He has some more slightly common people from St Paul's! One of the
:05:29. > :05:33.ways the Conservatives hoped to broaden their appeal is the tougher
:05:34. > :05:39.line on immigration. We learned net immigration is rising substantially.
:05:40. > :05:45.Back up over 200,000. Nigel Farage of UKIP wrapped up the rhetoric In
:05:46. > :05:55.scores of our cities and market towns, this country, in a short
:05:56. > :06:01.space of time, has become N'Zonzi rkable whether it is --
:06:02. > :06:07.unrecognisable. Whether it is the impact on local schools and
:06:08. > :06:11.hospitals. In many parts of England you don't hear English spoken, this
:06:12. > :06:17.is not the kind of the community we want to leave to our children and
:06:18. > :06:23.grandchildren. Helen, maybe people, I assume, will love the sentiments.
:06:24. > :06:30.Others will say, this is getting... It is going down a dangerous road.
:06:31. > :06:37.Nigel Farage's wife is German and he shares a flat with Godfully Bloom,
:06:38. > :06:44.nobody knows what he's saying half of the time. You can handle the
:06:45. > :06:54.letters from Yorkshire. Alex Salmond does not make his case on Scotland
:06:55. > :07:01.for the Scottish. Let's put aside whether the policy's right or wrong.
:07:02. > :07:08.How bad, by the Tories own lights, is the fact the net figure for
:07:09. > :07:13.immigration went up 60,000? It looks really bad. If I was a Tory
:07:14. > :07:18.strategist, I'd be philosophical about it. Immigration, even if they
:07:19. > :07:23.were meeting the target, I don't think the public would believe it.
:07:24. > :07:28.It is like crime a few years ago, the crime rates had been declining
:07:29. > :07:34.for the best part of 20 years but the fear of crime remains high.
:07:35. > :07:38.There's such a degree of cynicism that regardless of your
:07:39. > :07:43.administrative record in Government, the public will remain hostile to
:07:44. > :07:47.you. This is where Nigel Farage can be potent. He said it is not about
:07:48. > :07:55.numbers. It is about community. It is about people seeing their
:07:56. > :07:59.communities change. And in the Sunday Telegraph, it was said this
:08:00. > :08:03.isn't a dog whistle, a it is a meaty bone for a bull terrier. The problem
:08:04. > :08:08.for the Government on these figures is we know why the net migration
:08:09. > :08:13.figures are not looking good. They got down the non-EU figures but the
:08:14. > :08:19.EU figures are going up. From Italy and Spain as their economies tanked,
:08:20. > :08:24.people came here. If he hadn't made such a big deal of the numbers, the
:08:25. > :08:26.Tories, I mean, you could present this as a huge success story. If you
:08:27. > :08:31.believe immigration was good for the country. You would say it doesn t
:08:32. > :08:34.matter what Labour says, the best and the brightest young people from
:08:35. > :08:39.all over Europe are voting with their feet to come to Britain. But
:08:40. > :08:44.you never hear that case being made and certainly not by Labour. They
:08:45. > :08:47.acknowledge although immigration is best in the abstract for the
:08:48. > :08:52.economy, people don't feel it in their daily lives. There's a huge
:08:53. > :08:56.vacuum for the case where immigration should be in our public
:08:57. > :09:01.life. I remember a time when the economy was in such decline there
:09:02. > :09:06.was a rush to the door in the sixties and seventies. Now we are
:09:07. > :09:11.claiming our economy's doing better than any of the other major
:09:12. > :09:15.economies bar Germany, people want to join in our success. London was a
:09:16. > :09:23.declining city until the mid-eighties. Theresa May cannot be
:09:24. > :09:27.honest. She was proposing a cap on immigration. Not going to happen.
:09:28. > :09:33.Today she is saying maybe people from poorer member states cannot
:09:34. > :09:37.come in until their economies grow. That's future accession states.
:09:38. > :09:41.That's Turkey in ten years' time It is causing divisions with the
:09:42. > :09:46.coalition. She's bashing Vince Cable. You often see Liberal
:09:47. > :09:50.Democrats bashing the Tories. You don't often see a Tory minister bash
:09:51. > :09:54.Vince Cable. She does on the immigration figures. He thought they
:09:55. > :10:00.were good news. Last week, Vince responded to the news by saying it
:10:01. > :10:04.was a policy he was happy for the gift to flunk. The problem was going
:10:05. > :10:09.for a cap. There are six moving parts. UK citizens leaving, coming
:10:10. > :10:16.back. EU citizens leaving and coming back and then third party nationals.
:10:17. > :10:23.And students coming to study. Of course. You only have control over
:10:24. > :10:31.the EU citizens. Have you to clamp down on ace strayian, Chinese or
:10:32. > :10:39.American graduates. They should have gone for the Australian points
:10:40. > :10:47.system. I don't have a pure cap on numbers just background etc. Tim
:10:48. > :10:50.Farran said in the European election either vogue Liberal Democrat or
:10:51. > :10:55.UKIP. He turned that to his advantage. It is hopeful but he s
:10:56. > :11:05.come up with a way to spin this Labour has his special conference.
:11:06. > :11:11.Was it or was it not an event? Not sure it was the biggest moment in
:11:12. > :11:17.the party since 1918. But things fell apart in the special conference
:11:18. > :11:21.in 1981. 2004 got another special conference. Who's on board? David
:11:22. > :11:26.Owen who founded the gang of four. He's not joined but he's given them
:11:27. > :11:31.money. He's not going to sit with them in the Lord's. He's given
:11:32. > :11:38.money. They lost the gang of four. Back comes David Owen. Not historic?
:11:39. > :11:43.Why would he want it to be more significant than it was. There's a
:11:44. > :11:48.tendency to see him taking the fight to his party. Why would he want
:11:49. > :11:55.that? The fact it has not pleased Grant Shapps is not a test to see
:11:56. > :12:06.whether this has worked. It has been described as an historic moment and
:12:07. > :12:11.incremental of what John did. The trade union block voters disappeared
:12:12. > :12:19.a long time ago. They still have 50% of the vote. But 2,000 of union
:12:20. > :12:24.members voting for this guy has gone. It is a reform from 20 years
:12:25. > :12:29.ago. Welcome but not historic. Ed Miliband's stored up trouble. Len
:12:30. > :12:34.McCluskey wants a million new homes and answered to the benefit caps is
:12:35. > :12:39.not reconcilable with the deficit reduction strategy. In five years'
:12:40. > :12:44.time if there is a Labour Government it becomes very difficult. We should
:12:45. > :12:48.keep an eye on it? Always. Labour Party process is never ending.
:12:49. > :12:55.Unlike this programme. That's all from us today. Continuing reports of
:12:56. > :12:59.events in the Ukraine on the BBC News Channel. There's no Daily
:13:00. > :13:04.Politics tomorrow because of cover Arg of the Nelson Mandela memorial
:13:05. > :13:10.service at Westminster Abbey on BBC Two live. We'll be back on the Daily
:13:11. > :13:15.Politics on Tuesday at midday. We'll be back here next week with the Work
:13:16. > :13:18.and Pensions Secretary, Ian Smith. If it is Sunday, it is the Sunday
:13:19. > :13:36.Politics.