:00:37. > :00:42.David Cameron slaps down two of his most senior Cabinet ministers
:00:43. > :00:46.over their public row about Islamist extremism in schools.
:00:47. > :00:53.And it?s HER special advisor that has to resign.
:00:54. > :00:56.We'll talk to the Shadow Education Secretary live.
:00:57. > :01:00.Should this man become the next President of the EU Commission?
:01:01. > :01:03.David Cameron has staked a lot on stopping Luxembourg Federalist
:01:04. > :01:13.But could the arch europhile yet get the top job?
:01:14. > :01:15.Here's to the quarter of a million votes.
:01:16. > :01:20.And we'll find out why this political party is celebrating with
:01:21. > :01:23.a pint down the pub and how their success may have cost UKIP two MEPs.
:01:24. > :01:29.We're live at the Showground with the town's new MP and
:01:30. > :01:42.Has Boris Johnson deserted the suburbs and become a zone one man?
:01:43. > :01:45.And with me our panel of top political journalists,
:01:46. > :01:48.who are always squabbling among themselves, Nick Watt, Polly Toynbee
:01:49. > :01:50.and Janan Ganesh, who will be tweeting throughout the programme
:01:51. > :01:55.This morning's political news is dominated
:01:56. > :01:58.by the very public fall-out of Home Secretary Theresa May and
:01:59. > :02:02.The high viz blue on blue spat between two senior
:02:03. > :02:04.Conservatives centred around the Government's approach to tackling
:02:05. > :02:11.The row burst into the open ahead of the publication tomorrow of
:02:12. > :02:15.investigations into the so-called Trojan Horse plot in Birmingham
:02:16. > :02:18.where it is alleged several state schools have been covertly taken
:02:19. > :02:25.Mr Gove told The Times last week he was concerned that the Home Office
:02:26. > :02:28.was unwilling to tackle extremism at its roots.
:02:29. > :02:32.He said a robust response was needed to drain the swamp.
:02:33. > :02:33.In response, Mrs May's special advisor tweeted,
:02:34. > :02:36."why is the Department for Education wanting to blame other people
:02:37. > :02:43.Lord knows what more they have overlooked on the subject of the
:02:44. > :02:50.An angry David Cameron ordered a speedy inquiry.
:02:51. > :02:53.Last night, Mr Gove apologised to the Prime Minister, while Ms May's
:02:54. > :02:58.Speaking on the BBC earlier this morning
:02:59. > :03:04.this is what Foreign Secretary, William Hague, had to say.
:03:05. > :03:06.There's been a disciplinary matter within the Government,
:03:07. > :03:09.which the Prime Minister has dealt with in a very firm, clear way.
:03:10. > :03:11.There will be discipline in the Government.
:03:12. > :03:17.The main thing is the issue itself - tackling extremism in schools.
:03:18. > :03:23.The Government will be very clear, very robust about anything that s
:03:24. > :03:42.put children at risk - risk to their safety or learning.
:03:43. > :03:52.Let's look at the positive of this. Theresa May 's people of saying she
:03:53. > :03:59.has come off worse in theirs. Yelena Kushi is no more guilty than Michael
:04:00. > :04:07.Gove he was guilty of indiscretion. She is no more guilty. Even during
:04:08. > :04:12.13 years of new Labour 's psychodrama, I cannot remember an
:04:13. > :04:22.act of hostility quite as naked as direct as publishing on a website
:04:23. > :04:25.and intergovernmental letter. It suggests quite a lot of
:04:26. > :04:31.conservatives do not think they will win next time. Why would there be a
:04:32. > :04:37.leadership spat going on like this unless they thought there was a
:04:38. > :04:42.vacancy? Inside the Cabinet, Theresa May is getting quite a bashing. In
:04:43. > :04:48.the Sunday Times, someone has reported she is the date from hell.
:04:49. > :04:53.She sidles up to people and is nakedly ambitious. I think that is
:04:54. > :04:58.interesting. On the whole, nobody will understand the finesse
:04:59. > :05:04.differences of opinion. It is not serious, it is not serious, it is
:05:05. > :05:09.tactical. It'll be puzzling for most people and will probably fizzle out.
:05:10. > :05:15.Has the Prime Minister slapped it down or will it rumble on? On the
:05:16. > :05:21.politics of it, it will not fizzle out. What you have is Theresa May is
:05:22. > :05:25.deadly serious about replacing David Cameron, not dislodging him but
:05:26. > :05:30.replacing him if there is a vacancy. Michael Gove is deadly serious in
:05:31. > :05:35.ensuring George Osborne succeeds David Cameron. It will be that
:05:36. > :05:38.ongoing political rivalry. What is really interesting about this is the
:05:39. > :05:44.Prime Minister is absolutely fed up with both of them. He is fed up with
:05:45. > :05:49.Michael Gove full-size gearing of message. He had the row with Nick
:05:50. > :05:55.Clegg and he had a row with Theresa May. He named Charles Barr and
:05:56. > :06:03.criticised him in a lunch with the times. White brother he is the
:06:04. > :06:12.Security adviser at the Home Office. -- he is the security advisor. He is
:06:13. > :06:17.fed up with Theresa May for mounting an unannounced leader bid. What
:06:18. > :06:24.separates Theresa May from Michael Gove on dealing with extremism? The
:06:25. > :06:28.view from Michael Gove is that it shows no interest in Islamic
:06:29. > :06:34.extremism until it manifests in violent form. Theresa May is
:06:35. > :06:39.criticised for rolling back the programme which the previous Labour
:06:40. > :06:43.government introduced to do with the previous Labour government
:06:44. > :06:49.introduced to do with the Home Office has been made by other people
:06:50. > :06:55.and made when the Home Office was not run by Theresa May but previous
:06:56. > :06:56.home secretaries, even dating back to the Conservative government in
:06:57. > :07:02.the 1990s. It is about the laxity of the Government. Michael Gove has
:07:03. > :07:08.used extraordinary inflammatory language talking about draining the
:07:09. > :07:12.swamp. I think Theresa May 's view is you can very easily inflamed
:07:13. > :07:19.those emotions and create many more extremists the process. Michael Gove
:07:20. > :07:23.would say that his approach is entirely consistent with the speech
:07:24. > :07:26.the Prime Minister made to the Munich Security conference in 2 11
:07:27. > :07:28.when the Prime Minister talked about how extremists
:07:29. > :07:45.warp the grape great religion of Islam. The Birmingham school system
:07:46. > :07:50.is going to be one of the most reported systems in Europe.
:07:51. > :07:53.Joining me now from Kent is Shadow Education Secretary Tristram Hunt.
:07:54. > :08:03.Should parents of Birmingham children be worried that some of
:08:04. > :08:08.their schools are in the grip of an Islamist takeover? I think parents
:08:09. > :08:11.in Birmingham schools will be very disappointed by the political
:08:12. > :08:15.infighting going on in the Government. The briefings, the
:08:16. > :08:21.resignations, the apologies. The real apology that Michael Gove needs
:08:22. > :08:25.to deliver it to the pupil -- the pupils and parents of Birmingham.
:08:26. > :08:29.There was a potential threat of radicalisation. He fell to act for
:08:30. > :08:34.four years. The Labour Party is asking, when did he know the fact
:08:35. > :08:39.that radicalisation could have been taking place? What has been going on
:08:40. > :08:43.for the last four years? What we in the Labour Party want to see if much
:08:44. > :08:47.stronger systems of local oversight and accountability to situations
:08:48. > :08:52.like this do not arise again. Is there, in your view, if some of the
:08:53. > :09:02.Birmingham schools, an Islamist takeover? What we have seen in the
:09:03. > :09:06.leaked Ofsted report so far is fears about cultural isolation and an
:09:07. > :09:11.overconcentration on Islamic teaching within the curriculum. We
:09:12. > :09:15.want young people to celebrate their cultural identity, celebrate
:09:16. > :09:20.themselves as Muslims. We also want them to have an education which
:09:21. > :09:24.makes them succeed in multicultural 21st-century Birmingham. We want to
:09:25. > :09:31.be quite tough on moves towards gender segregation, a restricted
:09:32. > :09:36.curriculum. Birmingham is a multicultural city. We need an
:09:37. > :09:41.education system which celebrates that. What is wrong with gender
:09:42. > :09:48.segregation? You went to an all boys school. Where you have gender
:09:49. > :09:54.segregation, we have had a long tradition in Catholic schooling
:09:55. > :09:59.Where you have a state education system, which is about gender
:10:00. > :10:02.equality between boys and girls and there is an unofficial policy of
:10:03. > :10:07.gender segregation, that is unacceptable. We should not be
:10:08. > :10:13.tarring communities with the same brush in terms of radicalisation. We
:10:14. > :10:20.do want to see a successful, multicultural education. Two years
:10:21. > :10:24.ago, Ofsted rated Parkview as outstanding. Now it looks like
:10:25. > :10:30.tomorrow it is going into special measures. What is it up to? I do
:10:31. > :10:35.think there is an issue for Ofsted that you can go from outstanding to
:10:36. > :10:40.inadequate so quickly. That is why we are asking for a new criteria to
:10:41. > :10:47.be introduced to look at a broad and balanced curriculum. We have healthy
:10:48. > :10:51.sex and relationship education. There is a real issue this morning
:10:52. > :10:54.as the BBC has been reporting on the night for the Department of
:10:55. > :10:58.Education. We are hearing that some of those involved in the schools
:10:59. > :11:01.were not allowed to open a free school on security grounds. They
:11:02. > :11:07.were allowed to allow one of the schools to be taken over as an
:11:08. > :11:10.academy. We have a lack of oversight and accountability in schools within
:11:11. > :11:14.Birmingham. What the Labour Party wants is a local director of school
:11:15. > :11:23.standards to make sure we challenge underperformance and make sure we
:11:24. > :11:30.get in confronting Islamic extremism when it was in power? I was speaking
:11:31. > :11:35.to Hazel blears and she was very clear about the prevent programme
:11:36. > :11:43.which they rolled out when in office. A very atomised and
:11:44. > :11:51.fragmented school system where every school is looked at from behind a
:11:52. > :11:56.desk in Whitehall and he put that together and you do have an
:11:57. > :12:09.increased risk of chances of radicalisation. You have attacked Mr
:12:10. > :12:17.Gove for gross negligence. Was it the same -- you attacked Mr Gove for
:12:18. > :12:22.gross negligence. We are dealing with a government which has been in
:12:23. > :12:26.since 2010. The Government needs to hold the executive to account. We
:12:27. > :12:34.note the Department Michael Gove was warned by a senior and respected
:12:35. > :12:41.head teacher about fears over radicalism. What did he know and
:12:42. > :12:44.what did he act upon? We are hearing more reports of conversations about
:12:45. > :12:48.fears, about radicalisation, taking over some of the governing bodies of
:12:49. > :12:55.schools. We need to know what ministers did. Let me continue. You
:12:56. > :13:04.mention the capital to prevent strategy. Was it gross negligence
:13:05. > :13:08.for Labour to regularly consult a man who once headed a group
:13:09. > :13:14.dedicated to making Britain an Islamic state and wrote a book about
:13:15. > :13:18.schools full of Taliban style decrees. I think the events in
:13:19. > :13:25.Birmingham are enormously significant. About the nature of
:13:26. > :13:29.multiculturalism, the nature of education, the role of civic
:13:30. > :13:32.education, the role of faith schools. I will say to you this
:13:33. > :13:37.morning that Birmingham City Council, Ofsted, the Labour Party,
:13:38. > :13:48.the Department for Education were all involved in this conversation.
:13:49. > :13:51.In 2010, ministers were warned about potential radicalisation of schools
:13:52. > :13:57.and they fell to act. We need to know why, for years on, they allowed
:13:58. > :14:02.this situation to exacerbate. When you look at the record of labour and
:14:03. > :14:06.this government 's record, there are plenty of examples where both of you
:14:07. > :14:10.fail to act. Would it not be better to drop the party politics and get
:14:11. > :14:27.together to confront this problem for the sake of the children?
:14:28. > :14:32.have come forward with the Bishop of Birmingham talking about faith in
:14:33. > :14:36.schools. If you have a minister failing to do their job, if you have
:14:37. > :14:40.a minister being given warnings in 2010 and failing to act on them for
:14:41. > :14:43.four years, the opposition has a role to hold the executive to
:14:44. > :14:48.account. This is about the safety and standards of teaching for pupils
:14:49. > :14:52.in Birmingham schools. It is about a great education for these young
:14:53. > :14:57.people so they can succeed in a modern, multicultural Britain. Do
:14:58. > :15:04.you agree with your Shadow Cabinet colleague, Rachel Reeves, that
:15:05. > :16:32.Labour' as core voters are abandoning the party? She was
:16:33. > :16:35.Labour' as core voters are the European Union. I am clear what
:16:36. > :16:40.I want to achieve for Britain's future, to secure Britain's placed
:16:41. > :16:44.in a reformed European Union and I have a strategy for delivering
:16:45. > :16:47.that, a strategy for dealing with an issue which I think if we walk away
:16:48. > :16:49.from it would see Britain drift towards the exits.
:16:50. > :16:52.We've been joined from Berlin by the German MEP Elmar Brok who is
:16:53. > :16:56.a senior figure in the EPP - that's the party backing Mr Juncker.
:16:57. > :17:01.He's also Chairman of the Union of European Federalists.
:17:02. > :17:04.And in our Newcastle newsroom is the former Conservative MEP Martin
:17:05. > :17:07.Callanan who until last month led the European Conservatives
:17:08. > :17:16.and Reformists group in Brussels. Welcome to you both.
:17:17. > :17:23.The United Kingdom, Sweden, Hungary, they don't want Mr Junker, the new
:17:24. > :17:31.Italian Prime Minister doesn't look keen either, should he bow out
:17:32. > :17:36.gracefully? First of all, he wants to have Mr Junker but he wants to
:17:37. > :17:43.have his conditions. Will he become president of the European Council, a
:17:44. > :17:48.high representative? It is a discussion to be had in the next
:17:49. > :17:53.three or four weeks until the European Parliament can elect the
:17:54. > :17:57.president of the European Council after the proposal of the European
:17:58. > :18:02.Council, which has to be done after consultation with the Parliament in
:18:03. > :18:10.the light of the European elections and by a majority vote. If not Mr
:18:11. > :18:14.Junker, then who? There are many available candidates, I am not going
:18:15. > :18:22.to mention them in front of someone so esteemed as Elmar Brok. Give us
:18:23. > :18:27.one name that you would prefer? The prime Minister of Sweden, Christine
:18:28. > :18:33.Lagarde, the minister from Lithuania, these are people who have
:18:34. > :18:40.a record of old reform. Junker is the ultimate Europe insider. We need
:18:41. > :18:45.radical inform. We need to respond to the message the electorate gave
:18:46. > :18:50.us in the elections -- radical reform. Junker said he had to lie in
:18:51. > :18:54.public, he allowed the security services to conduct a dirty tricks
:18:55. > :18:59.campaign against his opponent. This is not who we want leading the
:19:00. > :19:02.European Commission. Elmar Brok since the European voters have sent
:19:03. > :19:06.a message to the parliament that they are not happy with the status
:19:07. > :19:13.quo, why would you want a man who is synonymous with the status quo?
:19:14. > :19:23.First of all what Martin has said is wrong. He has not done tricks
:19:24. > :19:30.against his opponents. He was very clear on that. He is also the man
:19:31. > :19:35.who was always for changes. He made dramatic changes as head of the Euro
:19:36. > :19:39.group, came out of the economic crisis which was a result of the
:19:40. > :19:42.financial crisis, made politics possible, to stop this incredible
:19:43. > :19:47.financial sector influence of our states. I believe he is a man who
:19:48. > :19:52.works on the programme which Mrs Merkel and others have decided in
:19:53. > :19:57.Dublin, for the reform of the European Union, less government But
:19:58. > :20:01.we need Europe more and he is not a man from the 80s. He is a man of
:20:02. > :20:05.this century and in this century he made his own policy. He is the
:20:06. > :20:09.winner of the European elections, he has a majority will stop Mrs
:20:10. > :20:14.LANguard is not running because she knows she will not get the majority
:20:15. > :20:21.in the European Parliament. -- Christine Lagarde is not running. It
:20:22. > :20:28.is the Council of minister is that decides. No, the European Parliament
:20:29. > :20:32.has the final word. The European Council can make a proposal by
:20:33. > :20:33.majority in the light of the European elections after
:20:34. > :20:38.consultation with the European Parliament. The council cannot get a
:20:39. > :20:45.candidate against the will of the European Parliament. Mr Junker has a
:20:46. > :20:49.majority in the European Parliament. Theoretically he is right, the
:20:50. > :20:52.Parliament has do vote on the candidates proposed by the council.
:20:53. > :20:57.I want to challenge the view that somehow he won the European
:20:58. > :21:01.elections. There is no provision for Jean Claude Junker to stand in the
:21:02. > :21:05.elections. He is saying that the EEP party got the most number of seats
:21:06. > :21:09.in the Parliament but none of the electorate knew they were taking
:21:10. > :21:12.part in this election. How many people who voted Labour in the
:21:13. > :21:17.United Kingdom realised that their vote would count towards a German
:21:18. > :21:24.socialist to be a candidate for the commission of presidency is a
:21:25. > :21:27.nonsensical proposal. The elections were 28 individual elections with
:21:28. > :21:31.hundreds of parties across Europe. To try to claim there is a
:21:32. > :21:33.democratic mandate for somebody nobody has heard from Luxembourg to
:21:34. > :21:51.take over the commission is a nonsense. People should know him, if
:21:52. > :21:54.I should say that ironically. Newspapers talking about members of
:21:55. > :22:04.the family of his wife with Nazi links... What is the answer to
:22:05. > :22:06.Martin Callinan's point? I think it is clear that British Conservatives
:22:07. > :22:11.have no candidate because they are not a broad European family, they
:22:12. > :22:15.have not impacted on the selection of top candidates but it is a form
:22:16. > :22:22.of isolation of the British Tory Party. The Prime Minister said if Mr
:22:23. > :22:26.Junker is appointed it could lead to Britain drifting towards the EU
:22:27. > :22:31.exit, is that credible? Is it melodramatic? It is true that we
:22:32. > :22:35.want to renegotiate the relationship. We want some serious
:22:36. > :22:40.reform in Europe so the people who vote in a referendum will be able to
:22:41. > :22:46.vote to stay in if that is what they want. We need a bold reformer,
:22:47. > :22:52.somebody prepared to engage. That is not anti the interests of the UK. We
:22:53. > :22:54.need to recognise there is a problem with public perception of the
:22:55. > :22:57.European Union. Elmar Brok is proud to be one of the last bastions of
:22:58. > :23:01.federalism that that is not where most of the public opinion is in
:23:02. > :23:07.Europe. I understand why he wants his man installed but we need to
:23:08. > :23:13.take into account the message of the letter -- the electorate. 25% of the
:23:14. > :23:19.publishing of France were prepared to vote for an openly racist party.
:23:20. > :23:25.We can't just ignore the signal that the electorate were sending us. If
:23:26. > :23:29.enthusiasm for federalism was at an all-time low, it would be a slap in
:23:30. > :23:36.the face for the voters of Europe to have a federalist as the president,
:23:37. > :23:41.would it not? 70, 80% of the members of the European Parliament, selected
:23:42. > :23:45.by their people, are pro-Europeans. These are the winners of the
:23:46. > :23:48.European elections. Even in France, a majority of voters have voted
:23:49. > :23:52.pro-European and that should be clear, not to make this a populist
:23:53. > :24:04.thing which is not only to do with Europe. And we want to have a Europe
:24:05. > :24:10.which is strong, the member states should do their things. We do not
:24:11. > :24:14.want to have a European centralism, we do not want a European state
:24:15. > :24:18.This is not at stake. Let's talk about the question of better
:24:19. > :24:22.governance, let's talk about what was wrong in the past, we have to
:24:23. > :24:27.become better, to change our programme in that question. That
:24:28. > :24:34.should be the way we lead to come to positive results. Thank you for
:24:35. > :24:37.that. Before we go, there is a British commissioner that needs to
:24:38. > :24:43.be appointed to Brussels, do you like the sound of that? These are
:24:44. > :24:48.matters for the Prime Minister, I am sure he has many excellent
:24:49. > :24:56.candidates. Do you like the sound of it? Like previous British
:24:57. > :25:00.commissioners, Chris Patten, Neil clinic, I have just lost an election
:25:01. > :25:06.-- Neil Kinnock for the everybody who is asked would serve, I'm sure.
:25:07. > :25:09.Just days ago UKIP were celebrating topping the poll in the European
:25:10. > :25:16.They're claiming they'd have had two more MEPs
:25:17. > :25:19.and the Greens two fewer had another party not confused the electorate.
:25:20. > :25:21.What's more UKIP say it's the fault of the body
:25:22. > :25:24.which was set up to oversee elections - the Electoral Commission
:25:25. > :25:37.This is a party celebrating success at the European elections. They
:25:38. > :25:43.didn't win a single MEP but nationally polled 250,000 votes
:25:44. > :25:47.They are an independence from Europe, mostly people who were once
:25:48. > :26:06.in UKIP, and that is rather the point. They may look like capers,
:26:07. > :26:14.drink like capers, sound like capers -- -- sound like kippers, but they
:26:15. > :26:17.are not. The name and the logo were displayed on this banner when the
:26:18. > :26:23.party launched its campaign. UKIP suggest the look, the wording and
:26:24. > :26:29.the inclusion of UK in now confused voters, and are looking at rewriting
:26:30. > :26:32.such a wrong. The way that seats are allocated in a European election
:26:33. > :26:38.under a proportional representation system is using this formula. It was
:26:39. > :26:45.invented by a Belgian mathematician in 1878 and it is essentially this.
:26:46. > :26:49.When all of the votes have been tallied up, the one with the most
:26:50. > :26:52.seats gets the first MEPC in a region. The others are allocated
:26:53. > :27:02.using votes cast divided by the number of seats gained plus one --
:27:03. > :27:07.first MEP seat in a region. UKIP were concerned with South West and
:27:08. > :27:11.London. There they say, when the last MEP seats were being allocated,
:27:12. > :27:15.if everyone who had voted for an independence from Europe had meant
:27:16. > :27:19.to vote for UKIP and you tallied their votes up, and added them to
:27:20. > :27:27.UKIP, UKIP would have been up one in each region and the greens would
:27:28. > :27:30.have lost them. Whether you can prove that voters did that by
:27:31. > :27:38.mistake is a very different matter. UKIP may have to just chalk it up to
:27:39. > :27:42.experience. It has happened before, back in the European elections of
:27:43. > :27:48.1994. Then in England under the first past the post system. This
:27:49. > :27:50.man, Richard Huggett, decided to stand as a little Democrat and
:27:51. > :27:57.polled a significant number of votes. The Liberal Democrat
:27:58. > :28:04.candidate at the time is now an MP. Many people voted and afterwards
:28:05. > :28:08.realised that they had bubbly voted for -- probably voted for a little
:28:09. > :28:15.Democrat, not a Liberal Democrat as they had been intending to do -
:28:16. > :28:23.bubbly voted for a literal Democrat -- probably voted.
:28:24. > :28:30.Mr Sanders got some consolation In 1998, laws came into rule on
:28:31. > :28:33.so-called spoiler tactics and the Electoral Commission was
:28:34. > :28:36.established. The Electoral Commission are based on the seventh
:28:37. > :28:40.floor of this building and they did look into this issue prior to
:28:41. > :28:43.voting. They have given us a statement that reveals the
:28:44. > :28:47.conclusion they came to, part of which says, we decided that the name
:28:48. > :28:53.of the party, and its description are sufficiently different to those
:28:54. > :28:57.registered by the UK Independence Party, UKIP, to mean, in our
:28:58. > :29:00.opinion, that voters were not likely to be confused if they appeared on
:29:01. > :29:08.the same ballot paper. Pretty conclusive stuff. Back at the pub,
:29:09. > :29:12.were an independence from Europe just being crafty, or do UKIP need
:29:13. > :29:18.to wake up and smell the flowers? We attack them in all areas. An
:29:19. > :29:21.independent study for Anglo Netherlands because I was involved
:29:22. > :29:26.in the Dutch -- with the Dutch member of Parliament and the
:29:27. > :29:31.description was UK Independence now, nobody has a monopoly on the word
:29:32. > :29:38.independence. I have been fighting for independence since I started in
:29:39. > :29:41.1994, before I joined UKIP. The party tell me they will stand again
:29:42. > :29:48.at the general election next year. The ironies not lost on them or the
:29:49. > :29:49.major parties of UKIP complaining that a smaller party has been taking
:29:50. > :29:58.votes of them. Joining me now to discuss
:29:59. > :30:02.this story is Gawain Towler. He's the UKIP candidate for the
:30:03. > :30:05.South West region, who failed to get And in our Bristol studios is
:30:06. > :30:21.the victorious Green MEP for How many of the 23,000 votes that
:30:22. > :30:25.were cast for the Independence party were meant for you? Impossible to
:30:26. > :30:31.tell. I want to congratulate Molly for getting elected. They are the
:30:32. > :30:38.breaks. I do not think there is a purpose in complaining about boats
:30:39. > :30:46.that are cast. Do you think you would have one otherwise? Yes, I do.
:30:47. > :30:49.You have to look at the would have one otherwise? Yes, I do.
:30:50. > :30:52.You have to look boats for parties people have not heard of and those
:30:53. > :30:59.with a long tradition that people have heard of. I do not think there
:31:00. > :31:05.is any doubt. If you saw the spoiled ballot papers, the amount of people
:31:06. > :31:11.who had voted at the top and the bottom, most people are not anoraks,
:31:12. > :31:26.they say, they are the people I want. They know what they are after.
:31:27. > :31:34.I think it is at least told. It is said you owe your seat to And
:31:35. > :31:38.Independence Party. It is strange for a man to say he could represent
:31:39. > :31:45.people in the south-west better than me. There has been outpouring of
:31:46. > :31:52.delight that a Green MP has finally been elected. A number of people
:31:53. > :31:55.have been saying they have been voting all their lives and it is the
:31:56. > :32:01.first time they have elected anybody. I am glad to represent them
:32:02. > :32:07.in a significant legislature. What would you say to that? I find it
:32:08. > :32:14.strange. I am perfectly happy for her to be elected. I feel the
:32:15. > :32:21.electoral commission has questions to answer. But, congratulations to
:32:22. > :32:24.Molly. Why do you want an extra seat for the Greens in the European
:32:25. > :32:31.Parliament but your national share of the vote actually fell. We did
:32:32. > :32:35.come under pressure nationally. If he is complaining about the role the
:32:36. > :32:40.election commission said we could stand, the rule we were not happy
:32:41. > :32:44.with was the off, ruling which said we were not a main party. We got
:32:45. > :32:51.significantly less media time and that is why our belt actually fell.
:32:52. > :32:59.Not on the Daily Politics or the Sunday Politics, where you were well
:33:00. > :33:07.represented. Was it a problem for UKIP in other parts of the country?
:33:08. > :33:21.Only in London. What do you think happened there? Very much the same.
:33:22. > :33:24.I do not think there is any doubt, the number of people we have had
:33:25. > :33:30.getting in touch saying, I am really sorry, I made a mess, that they
:33:31. > :33:34.voted for the wrong party. They are the breaks. Politics is politics.
:33:35. > :33:42.What I would like to see and what is reasonable, and I hope Molly would
:33:43. > :33:46.agree, there needs to be a reform - a serious reform of the Electoral
:33:47. > :33:51.Commission. There is no appeal process. They say it is not
:33:52. > :33:58.confusing. Lets see if she thinks that. I make it a policy never to
:33:59. > :34:02.agree with UKIP. What is important to note, if you look at the votes
:34:03. > :34:06.and the way the votes fell out and the seats fell out in the
:34:07. > :34:11.south-west, it is difficult for an Electoral Commission to turn boats
:34:12. > :34:17.into seats. UKIP got 33% of the vote and 33% of the seats. For them, the
:34:18. > :34:23.system worked very well in the south-west. Nationally, Greens did
:34:24. > :34:28.not get represented as the vote share would require. That is because
:34:29. > :34:32.you get very small number of seats in the different regions and you
:34:33. > :34:36.have to reach a high threshold. The Green Party has a right to complain
:34:37. > :34:39.about the level of seats we have ended up with. White rapper you have
:34:40. > :34:46.complaints about the Electoral Commission? We need to move to a
:34:47. > :34:53.proportional system for elections generally. If we poll around 7% 8%,
:34:54. > :34:58.we should be looking at having 0, 40 seats in the national
:34:59. > :35:00.legislature. We need to consider proportional representation for
:35:01. > :35:05.national elections. Do you accept the ballot paper may have confused
:35:06. > :35:11.some people? I think what happened is that some people in UKIP were
:35:12. > :35:15.very worried. Worried about the rightward move of UKIP and the
:35:16. > :35:21.authoritarian leadership of Nigel Farage. He set up a separate party.
:35:22. > :35:29.That is what happens in politics, particularly when parties are led by
:35:30. > :35:37.demagogues and are not focused on Democratic policy. Do you have any
:35:38. > :35:44.legal redress to this? None whatsoever. Have you had legal
:35:45. > :35:50.advice? I am told there is no redress. We do feel, I am sure Molly
:35:51. > :35:55.does not agree with UKIP on anything so, if we say the sun rises in the
:35:56. > :36:02.morning, she probably will disagree with that. If, at the next election,
:36:03. > :36:10.there is a party called the Grown Party, will she then complain? There
:36:11. > :36:15.needs to be some level of accountability and, without that,
:36:16. > :36:19.one wonders what is going on. We have an organisation with enormous
:36:20. > :36:26.and important power and influence which is setup to stop this of thing
:36:27. > :36:30.going on. It has failed. Not has it has failed. Not present served in
:36:31. > :36:34.Tower Hamlets and there have been massive problems with postal votes.
:36:35. > :36:40.It is failing on almost everything it is supposed to do. Just to go
:36:41. > :36:45.back for a final point from Molly. Should there be a right of appeal to
:36:46. > :36:48.the rulings of the Electoral Commission? You need to have an
:36:49. > :36:50.authoritative body that makes decisions in this area and we have
:36:51. > :37:11.the Electoral Commission. We say goodbye to viewers
:37:12. > :37:16.in Scotland, who leave us now Coming up here in 20 minutes,
:37:17. > :39:16.we'll be discussing extremism are the newly elected MP for Newark.
:39:17. > :39:19.What does that feel like? It is a great honour and I was absolutely
:39:20. > :39:24.delighted. It has been a hard`fought campaign. I have been campahgning
:39:25. > :39:28.since November so I did not just turn up for the by`election. It has
:39:29. > :39:34.been a long road so I am delighted, very happy, and I want to work hard
:39:35. > :39:39.and repay the trust local pdople here have put into me. Norm`lly
:39:40. > :39:45.young MPs into the House of Commons as one of a big class. The class of
:39:46. > :39:49.2014 is won and that's me! So hopefully it is good for Newark as
:39:50. > :39:54.well. Hopefully we will havd more profile than we would otherwise have
:39:55. > :39:59.had. You are not the new MP for Newark. How does that feel? Of
:40:00. > :40:03.course we campaigned and intended to win. Coming second is never as good
:40:04. > :40:08.as coming first, but, at thd same time, we increased our shardd by a
:40:09. > :40:16.factor of six and halved thd Conservative majority and what we
:40:17. > :40:19.showed, importantly, is that those who vote UKIP in Euro electhons a
:40:20. > :40:21.very high proportion of thel are prepared to come forward to
:40:22. > :40:26.Westminster elections and vote UKIP again. But you still didn't win We
:40:27. > :40:30.didn't win but we are clearly the main first challenger to thd Tories
:40:31. > :40:34.in Tory seats, and of coursd previous by`election experidnce
:40:35. > :40:37.shows we are the main first challenger to Labour in Labour
:40:38. > :40:46.seats, and that will take us through to success in 2015. They ard right,
:40:47. > :40:51.aren't they, Vernon? Well, we will put forward what we believe and we
:40:52. > :40:55.will take on the Tories and expose them for the failings of thd
:40:56. > :40:59.Government as we see them and we will also expose Europe and hold
:41:00. > :41:03.UKIP to account for the polhcies they promote. Just a few daxs ago,
:41:04. > :41:09.for example, the UKIP leader saying they are in favour of gramm`r
:41:10. > :41:15.schools. I think when peopld start to pick apart UKIP they will be ..
:41:16. > :41:21.But a hugely disappointing result for Labour? We brought forw`rd
:41:22. > :41:27.hugely important local issuds. The local MP will have to see where he
:41:28. > :41:34.stands with respect to things like Newark Hospital and the A
:41:35. > :41:39.department. We will hold Robert Jenrette to account to see whether
:41:40. > :41:47.he delivers on the promises they have made. So, all eyes on xou, as I
:41:48. > :41:53.said. You going to deliver? well, yes, to me, the election was local
:41:54. > :41:57.people having a choice as to who they wanted to be their constituency
:41:58. > :42:02.MP and who they thought was the most credible person to represent their
:42:03. > :42:08.area. Where do you stand on the East Coast line? I said in the c`mpaign
:42:09. > :42:15.infrastructure is the key and the infrastructure of the town, so road,
:42:16. > :42:19.rail and broadband. I said H am not ideological on the east coast line.
:42:20. > :42:23.I want the best possible service for passengers and if we can get fares
:42:24. > :42:27.down and increase the number of services on the line, as yot see,
:42:28. > :42:31.for example, on the West Co`st Main Line, where investment in rolling
:42:32. > :42:35.stock has been around 300 mhllion in recent years compared to 30 or 0 on
:42:36. > :42:38.the East Coast Main Line, so if we could get that in the process of
:42:39. > :42:52.returning it to private owndrship, I think that is the best thing to
:42:53. > :42:54.people up here in Newark and the surrounding area, Roger. Is that
:42:55. > :42:55.something you overlooked in your campaign? Concentrating on
:42:56. > :42:59.immigration? In any by`election campaign, you have national issues
:43:00. > :43:03.and local issues. It would be a huge mistake to ignore either. I would
:43:04. > :43:09.have been committed to camp`igning to getting the A back. We talked
:43:10. > :43:14.about flood defences and local schools, local transport and
:43:15. > :43:20.infrastructure. So, yes, we focused on local as well as national issues.
:43:21. > :43:24.Where did you go wrong here, Vernon? Because you had a local candidate
:43:25. > :43:27.but he just wasn't getting the message through? I thought we fought
:43:28. > :43:35.a campaign on the local isstes, as you said. What we actually put
:43:36. > :43:39.forward was what we thought were policies which were important to the
:43:40. > :43:42.people of Newark, and come the general election and next ydar, when
:43:43. > :43:45.people are making decisions about who they want to run the cotntry,
:43:46. > :43:51.rather than making protests and voting Tory to prevent UKIP from
:43:52. > :43:57.winning, as we saw in a locked. . But a lot of Lib Dem voters did vote
:43:58. > :44:02.UKIP, didn't they? Sorry, a lot of Lib Dem voters voted Tory. They
:44:03. > :44:06.voted Tory in order to prevdnt UKIP winning and I think that is
:44:07. > :44:11.significant. That is worrying, though. They could do that `gain!
:44:12. > :44:15.When you start to make choices about who you want to run the country and
:44:16. > :44:19.who you want to walk into 10 Downing Street, that will make people
:44:20. > :44:22.realise and think about where they place their vote, and clearly, they
:44:23. > :44:27.won't want to see Nigel Far`ge walking into Downing Street, or
:44:28. > :44:30.indeed, getting members of Parliament into Parliament where
:44:31. > :44:34.they are going to talk about the sorts of things we have heard them
:44:35. > :44:39.talking about on integration. Well, you know that it would have been
:44:40. > :44:45.extremely unpopular talking about immigration in your party. Where you
:44:46. > :44:50.let down by Nigel Farage? D`vid Cameron came here ten times to
:44:51. > :44:55.support his candidate. Nigel Farage only came twice. That tells me they
:44:56. > :45:04.cared a bit more about the seat I was delighted... He was not on
:45:05. > :45:08.holiday! May I answer the qtestion, if you don't mind! I was delighted
:45:09. > :45:16.he came when he did and we had a day `` we had a fantastic pre`election
:45:17. > :45:19.talk. He is a figure who colmands enormous media attention. You
:45:20. > :45:27.described him as box office in the Telegraph. But is that not ` problem
:45:28. > :45:30.for candidates like yourself? He is the leader of our party and our
:45:31. > :45:36.delegation in Brussels and our group in Brussels and he has lots of
:45:37. > :45:40.pulls on his time. It's been quite a show
:45:41. > :45:43.the last few weeks here in Newark. But what has the town got ott
:45:44. > :45:46.of a by`election? Our political editor, John Hess
:45:47. > :45:48.looks back at how the country's top politicians
:45:49. > :45:55.have been falling over our It feels as though the circts has
:45:56. > :45:58.finally left town and it can all be swept away, but how easy will it be
:45:59. > :46:04.to sweep away those election pledges? Newark has two railway
:46:05. > :46:09.stations. Northgate, with its fast links to King's Cross, making London
:46:10. > :46:16.128 miles away in just over an hour's journey, and then thdre is
:46:17. > :46:22.the Cinderella service, the Castle line. Just under an hour to cover
:46:23. > :46:26.just 40 miles! But is this railway Cinderella about to go to the ball?
:46:27. > :46:31.The train service is not up to scratch. We should be improving our
:46:32. > :46:33.services between Lincoln and Nottingham and Newark, making sure
:46:34. > :46:38.they are more regular and that there is a direct service to Notthngham.
:46:39. > :46:44.It is all about securing Newark s economic future and the whole of the
:46:45. > :46:50.East Midlands. The future of the hospital was another local campaign
:46:51. > :46:54.issue. Would Accident Emergency be reinstated? The Labour Leaddr, Ed
:46:55. > :46:58.Miliband, toured the wards. People are deeply worried about thd
:46:59. > :47:03.downgrading of the A here. Labour is pledging to have 48 hour access
:47:04. > :47:07.with your GP and that is good for health services but it is also good
:47:08. > :47:12.for the hospital as well, bdcause you get people coming to thd
:47:13. > :47:18.hospital, and I heard this today, you cannot get proper access. Jeremy
:47:19. > :47:22.Hunt also came here and within a week the head of NHS England
:47:23. > :47:26.announced a significant polhcy change. Services will no longer be
:47:27. > :47:29.shifted to because that is `s a matter of course. Instead, smaller
:47:30. > :47:35.hospitals will have enhanced services. Is that another shgn of
:47:36. > :47:40.the by`election affect? How are you going to improve the area's schools?
:47:41. > :47:46.On the eve of the poll, a round table candidate debate at r`dio
:47:47. > :47:52.Nottingham. This election commitment was made about local schools. The
:47:53. > :47:55.school is going to be rebuilt, it is going to be fantastic. I reviewed
:47:56. > :47:59.the plans with the headteacher and we are going to move forward from
:48:00. > :48:06.there. I want to see Magnus have the same treatment and Toothill, because
:48:07. > :48:14.they have another block unddr way and there is clearly more to be
:48:15. > :48:22.done. Michael Gove also camd to talk up plans about rebuilding the
:48:23. > :48:29.town's rundown secondary schools. And this was Nigel Farage on a
:48:30. > :48:35.visit. I get it, I understand it. Over the months to come on Sunday
:48:36. > :48:36.Politics, we will keep an exe on how and when those pledges are
:48:37. > :48:40.fulfilled. In a moment, we'll be finding out
:48:41. > :48:43.what our guests think about that. But first let's go to Tim P`rker,
:48:44. > :49:01.who's down there, I am in amongst the British bulldog
:49:02. > :49:05.festival looking at how to help rescue dogs. They are a passing
:49:06. > :49:09.grade but they can slobber ` bit and my next guest knows all abott that,
:49:10. > :49:16.we both do, because we have already had some of that around our legs
:49:17. > :49:22.this afternoon! Let's talk `bout the effect UKIP has been having,
:49:23. > :49:27.especially recently. Put thdse results into perspective. What does
:49:28. > :49:31.it mean for them? For UKIP, this is actually quite is accessibld result.
:49:32. > :49:35.Nigel Farage has recently come out and said, listen, we did not expect
:49:36. > :49:45.to win. And I think that is probably true. That is not an area conducive
:49:46. > :49:49.`` normally conducive to th`t demographic but I think it has done
:49:50. > :49:54.what they wanted, meaning they were able to show they are seriots
:49:55. > :50:02.contenders for ACT in Westmhnster. Right across the East Midlands, many
:50:03. > :50:12.seats have been divided with Labour in that way. How is the UKIP
:50:13. > :50:14.landscape going to change that? That is the interesting thing. For a long
:50:15. > :50:19.time there was this percepthon that they were pulling from the Tory
:50:20. > :50:22.Party. And what we have seen recently through the Europe`n
:50:23. > :50:27.elections is that that is not only the case, so they have actu`lly been
:50:28. > :50:32.pulling a lot of traditional Labour supporters, which I think w`s
:50:33. > :50:39.unexpected from the party's perspective, so perhaps Labour was
:50:40. > :50:42.not expecting that. One intdresting thing to see will be that in
:50:43. > :50:45.different constituencies, all the parties will have to be prepared to
:50:46. > :50:50.take this challenge from UKHP because they are not sure where this
:50:51. > :50:53.support will come from. We have heard on this programme alrdady that
:50:54. > :51:03.they are the challenger in so many seas. You think that's right? ``
:51:04. > :51:08.seats. It will be interesting to see because they have had a challenge
:51:09. > :51:13.transferring their European success into a general election, but one of
:51:14. > :51:18.the things we see with this data, this survey data, is that they say
:51:19. > :51:22.they will stay loyal in a gdneral election but if that is the case,
:51:23. > :51:26.they will be strong challengers across a number of seats in
:51:27. > :51:30.different parts of the country, including in the north`east and the
:51:31. > :51:34.North West. So it is a bit soon to tell. There is much work to be done
:51:35. > :51:38.in the next year but it could be true. Finally, this makes otr job
:51:39. > :51:44.very difficult in terms of predicting what will happen next. It
:51:45. > :51:48.will be very unpredictable hn the next year. UKIP will have to do a
:51:49. > :51:54.lot of work, particularly on a domestic programme. They have been
:51:55. > :51:58.very successful at deepening amongst groups already likely to support
:51:59. > :52:02.them but if they want to take seats, they need to cut across these
:52:03. > :52:07.groups who traditionally don't favour UKIP, and women in p`rticular
:52:08. > :52:10.will be a challenge for UKIP, so if they can do this, we are gohng to
:52:11. > :52:17.see a very ample addict for situation, which, for peopld like
:52:18. > :52:22.me, means it is very exciting. `` a very unpredictable situation. I m
:52:23. > :52:31.going to go along here and have a go at naming some of these dogs after
:52:32. > :52:36.that! So, talking about the potential way UKIP can make gains.
:52:37. > :52:44.There are plenty of marginal seats where all it takes is anothdr 1 ,000
:52:45. > :52:50.votes and you are in troubld. I am thinking Sherwood, rock Stowe, and
:52:51. > :52:55.the valley, all of those pl`ces It was a by`election and those are in
:52:56. > :52:59.a sense, a test of the government. In Newark 50% of people chose to
:53:00. > :53:04.stick with the Government. H think that is because things are hmproving
:53:05. > :53:08.locally and nationally. We have had almost 8000 jobs created since 010
:53:09. > :53:12.here. The East Midlands is the fastest`growing part of the British
:53:13. > :53:16.economy. Of course there is a way to go but things are improving and the
:53:17. > :53:20.feedback I had on the doorstep is that people don't want to ttrn back
:53:21. > :53:25.the clock and risk the recovery so I do have confidence in my fellow
:53:26. > :53:29.MPs, in the likes of Sherwood. Some of the analysis we have been looking
:53:30. > :53:34.at points to the fact that xou might have, Roger, a problem with women
:53:35. > :53:38.voters. They don't seem to like Nigel Farage. You call him box
:53:39. > :53:43.office, they might disagree. Not all of them, clearly. But in sole of the
:53:44. > :53:51.polls we have seen. You will see they are either preferred bx men or
:53:52. > :53:55.women with any party. We just had 24 UKIP MEPs elected and six of those
:53:56. > :54:00.women, and they are very good women indeed. You probably saw Di`ne James
:54:01. > :54:04.on the coverage of the by`election on the Andrew Neil Show. Shd was
:54:05. > :54:08.superb so I am delighted we are now putting forward very strong and
:54:09. > :54:13.capable women as UKIP MEPs `nd I believe that will appeal to women
:54:14. > :54:17.voters. Woodward talking about the potential for UKIP to get into these
:54:18. > :54:23.marginal seats. `` we were talking. You must be feeling more vulnerable
:54:24. > :54:27.now? Nobody takes this seat for granted and I certainly don't. But
:54:28. > :54:32.for the Labour Party and those seas we have just mentioned, Sherwood,
:54:33. > :54:37.Amber Valley, all of those seats across the Keys Midlands, the Labour
:54:38. > :54:42.Party is working very hard. `` those seats we have mentioned. We will put
:54:43. > :54:46.for the alternatives and hold the Government to account on thd cost of
:54:47. > :54:49.living crisis and the fact that people aren't feeling the bdnefits
:54:50. > :54:53.of the limited growth now t`king place. And, as I said, we whll also
:54:54. > :55:00.expose UKIP for what they are in terms of their policy and what they
:55:01. > :55:06.will do. And we will expose you Just tell me, what seats can you win
:55:07. > :55:10.here in the East Midlands? We talked about marginals. Which ones are you
:55:11. > :55:12.going for? We are developing a targeted strategy for once we
:55:13. > :55:18.consider marginals and UKIP potential, but I am certainly not
:55:19. > :55:23.going to make wild guesses on air. You were rather speaking to Robert
:55:24. > :55:28.as if UKIP only takes Conservative votes. We don't. We take votes
:55:29. > :55:34.across the board. Former Lib Dems, former Labour... You will t`ke them
:55:35. > :55:39.from wherever! We also take votes from those who haven't voted for 20
:55:40. > :55:45.years and they see something they now liked. Your leader described you
:55:46. > :55:53.towards the later end of yotr years. As age got something to do with it?
:55:54. > :55:56.I don't want to be a just! H was the only one with Parliamentary
:55:57. > :56:00.experience and the one with by far the most business experiencd, which
:56:01. > :56:05.is a good thing. Will new stand again? We will be looking after the
:56:06. > :56:08.dust had settled and putting forward appropriate candidates for the
:56:09. > :56:13.seats, so it would not be stitable for me to make that statement.
:56:14. > :56:17.Besides, we have adopted a local constituency... But would you like
:56:18. > :56:28.to stand again? I'm looking forward to moving back to Brussels tomorrow
:56:29. > :56:30.and I'm looking forward to representing the people of Newark in
:56:31. > :56:33.Brussels if not in Westminster. Robert, you have a real taste of
:56:34. > :56:36.what being in the limelight is like with the spotlight on you. Ht all
:56:37. > :56:39.got rather personal as well, saying your background was privileged. How
:56:40. > :56:45.did that all feel? It is politics, isn't it? It shouldn't be btt it is.
:56:46. > :56:49.We fought an unrelenting and positive campaign and unlikd the
:56:50. > :56:52.other parties, we were focused on the local issues, so if you look at
:56:53. > :56:55.the leaflets people are now chucking in their dustbins after the
:56:56. > :57:01.by`election, while others wdre talking about their national issues,
:57:02. > :57:12.we were talking about hospitals the railways... We talked about local
:57:13. > :57:19.issues constantly! You had `lready given `` UKIP our `` had already
:57:20. > :57:25.given up on Newark is Mac you going to stand up?! We felt that there
:57:26. > :57:30.were great things for the country which were great things for Newark
:57:31. > :57:33.as well. Listen to the political man speaking! You haven't actually said
:57:34. > :57:40.whether you are going to st`nd or not. I've replied to that qtestion
:57:41. > :57:45.already and I refer you to ly previous answer! I guess ond of the
:57:46. > :57:51.biggest concerns is the turnout and only 52% turned out to vote, and in
:57:52. > :57:55.a hotly contested seat wherd everything was thrown against. This
:57:56. > :57:59.is what you are up against, isn t it? Everybody would agree that
:58:00. > :58:03.clearly when it comes to trtst in politics, there is a job for all of
:58:04. > :58:08.us to do and we can all agrde on that. This is about trying to, once
:58:09. > :58:12.again, say to people we havd listened and we understand what you
:58:13. > :58:22.are saying and then act upon it But as one of the things UKIP are
:58:23. > :58:26.saying. As I say, not enough... When people listen to what UKIP stand
:58:27. > :58:33.for, I think then they will come to a different conclusion. I'm sorry.
:58:34. > :58:43.We will have to go into our 62nd round `` 60`second round up.
:58:44. > :58:47.The Charnwood MP Stephen Durrell is stepping down from his role as
:58:48. > :58:51.chairman of the Health Select Committee. He says he will have more
:58:52. > :58:55.freedom to debate health policy and laughed at claims that he is
:58:56. > :59:00.preparing for a post Newark by`election reshuffle. The
:59:01. > :59:07.Government's help to buy scheme has been raised as a concern by the
:59:08. > :59:11.North Leicestershire MP. Though he says many have been able to buy
:59:12. > :59:17.under the scheme. John Mann has been an usually quiet, for good reason.
:59:18. > :59:22.He is up a mountain! The experienced climber is scaling the 19,000 foot
:59:23. > :59:29.mountain in Ecuador to raisd money for the British Legion. As tradition
:59:30. > :59:32.now demands, Dennis Skinner interrupted the pomp and
:59:33. > :00:00.circumstance of the opening of Parliament with a well timed quip.
:00:01. > :00:03.count, I went to Newark bushness club and then went to open ` pub!
:00:04. > :00:07.Monday we are opening a prilary school. So it will be a busx time.
:00:08. > :00:12.Wednesday, looking forward to going to the House of Commons. I'l going
:00:13. > :00:19.back to Brussels, looking forward to meeting the other newly elected UKIP
:00:20. > :00:21.MEPs. And a lot of work to be done for Labour. I think that's where we
:00:22. > :00:23.have to leave it. Thank you for my guests. That is it for the Sunday
:00:24. > :01:59.Politics in London. Back to Andrew. about some of the strategies to
:02:00. > :02:04.influence. These strategies are known as gradualism. The idea, like
:02:05. > :02:10.the Muslim Brotherhood in Egypt is to join the institutions of society
:02:11. > :02:17.and influence from within -- from within. It is a gradual approach to
:02:18. > :02:23.Islamicisation society. We have seen that happening in other areas, such
:02:24. > :02:28.as the decision by the Law Society to call it shy and issue it out as
:02:29. > :02:31.guidance for solicitors. They are saying this means that women inherit
:02:32. > :02:40.half of what men saying this means that women inherit
:02:41. > :02:41.and adopted children do not get any inheritance. Apostates do not get
:02:42. > :02:45.any inheritance. These are guidelines being issued by the Law
:02:46. > :02:52.Society by Islamic. It is a medieval take on Islam. That is what is
:02:53. > :02:58.meant. We see the same names popping up again and again in different
:02:59. > :03:02.situations in Birmingham. Is it a planned infiltration? In my
:03:03. > :03:05.profession of you and planned infiltration? In my
:03:06. > :03:08.profession of you having spent 3 years on the leadership of an
:03:09. > :03:21.Islamist organisation, having been involved
:03:22. > :03:21.Islamist organisation, having been and setting up schools, I am very
:03:22. > :03:21.Islamist organisation, having been certain is a deliberate plan to
:03:22. > :03:26.influence the students of this country with a medieval
:03:27. > :03:29.interpretation of my own faith to bring about a medieval, conservative
:03:30. > :03:34.view, and enforce things like segregation on boys and girls within
:03:35. > :03:41.our public institutions. With these things be acceptable if they were
:03:42. > :03:47.explicitly they schools? If they were state. We had state Anglican
:03:48. > :03:52.faith schools. We have state Catholic faith schools as well.
:03:53. > :03:57.Would it be acceptable if these were state Islamic schools? That is a
:03:58. > :04:03.policy question. I am not generally in favour. I would believe in this
:04:04. > :04:10.establishment. I am not a fan of faith schools. I do think the
:04:11. > :04:15.solution is to ban them. I do think these schools should start working
:04:16. > :04:19.out with an engaging with the wider communities and not being insular
:04:20. > :04:22.and looking inwards. It is very important. The Ofsted report is
:04:23. > :04:29.coming out tomorrow. We have already had a taste about what it is saying
:04:30. > :04:34.about some of the schools. Is it a serious problem? It is a very
:04:35. > :04:40.serious problem. It comes from the segregation of children into
:04:41. > :04:44.intensely populated areas where everyone is Muslim virtually. You
:04:45. > :04:49.have to have a system of spreading children between schools. It very
:04:50. > :04:53.often happens, even with a secular school like this. Nearby Catholic or
:04:54. > :04:56.Church of England schools become like-for-like schools and that
:04:57. > :05:01.leaves the rest of the state schools to become all of one faith. I think
:05:02. > :05:05.all of the parties are being quite hypocritical about the profound
:05:06. > :05:10.problem of continuing to have faith schools. You have Orthodox Jewish
:05:11. > :05:13.schools with extraordinary dogma being taught. Indeed very strict
:05:14. > :05:19.Catholic schools with amazing dogma being taught. To somehow only get
:05:20. > :05:23.worried when it is Islamic, when it is Muslim schools, becomes a
:05:24. > :05:27.problem. You have to look at the whole issue and said the state
:05:28. > :05:40.should simply withdraw from the business of faith education. Like
:05:41. > :05:46.France? Yes, a secular school. The overall government policy is to take
:05:47. > :05:51.power away. The dilemma with that is that it comes with dangers. Some
:05:52. > :05:54.schools will be incompetent and some schools will be more than
:05:55. > :05:58.incompetent, they will be maligned in some respects. The one bit of
:05:59. > :06:04.this policy which has never been entirely squared is how do you
:06:05. > :06:07.devolve and retain a basic minimum of educational standards and
:06:08. > :06:13.behavioural standards while doing it? There is an even deeper quandary
:06:14. > :06:16.for Britain. We have prided ourselves on allowing radical views
:06:17. > :06:21.that stop short of violence. We took on Karl Marx and the rest of Europe
:06:22. > :06:24.would not have him. The rest of Europe could not believe how
:06:25. > :06:28.tolerably well of radical preachers in the 1990s. Do we stick with that
:06:29. > :06:36.view? The risks were greater than they were 100 years ago. We do
:06:37. > :06:41.expect, whatever peoples faith, that our children, at the expense of the
:06:42. > :06:46.taxpayer, are educated, not instructed, not indoctrinated,
:06:47. > :06:49.educated. We do expect that and also that boys and girls are treated
:06:50. > :06:53.equally. One of the things the board in Birmingham will be looking at
:06:54. > :06:57.which has Andrew Mitchell on it the former development Secretary,
:06:58. > :07:01.because he is a Birmingham MP full Sutton, they are really concerned
:07:02. > :07:06.about whether the girls are being treated as second-class citizens.
:07:07. > :07:11.There has been a lot of work done on empowerment of girls. Shirley
:07:12. > :07:15.Williams made the point that what Michael Gove has done by creating
:07:16. > :07:18.free schools and academies is undermined the work of local
:07:19. > :07:25.education authorities. They think they are traditional bodies which
:07:26. > :07:31.are not open to reform. One school in Birmingham which is accused of
:07:32. > :07:37.being in trouble is a local education school. They cannot have
:07:38. > :07:42.the other side. Under Michael Gove, they are answerable to the Secretary
:07:43. > :07:47.of State. It is down to Ofsted. Ofsted is giving the schools, not
:07:48. > :07:50.that long ago, outstanding marks. There are big questions about the
:07:51. > :07:55.oversight of schools. Tristan Hunt was trying to answer that point By
:07:56. > :08:02.tapping it cannot all have gone pear shaped in two years. How do you
:08:03. > :08:09.think that will play out? -- it cannot have gone pear shaped. The
:08:10. > :08:13.story was broken in February. It will keep playing out. The report
:08:14. > :08:17.that was due out Ofsted is tomorrow or Monday. Then there is the other
:08:18. > :08:21.report that will look into wider questions, that will come out in
:08:22. > :08:31.July, I think. We are expecting two points. -- reports. We have to look
:08:32. > :08:36.at questions of Ofsted and other institutions in our society, even
:08:37. > :08:44.government departments, where idea of taxing non-violent extremism
:08:45. > :08:49.became a too boot in this country. -- a taboo. They must be rebuffed
:08:50. > :08:55.the challenge, as we would expect racism to be challenged. In the
:08:56. > :09:01.argument between Michael Gove and Theresa May, where do you side? They
:09:02. > :09:05.should be challenged openly and robust leap by civilian society It
:09:06. > :09:14.was settled by the Prime Minister and is government policy. I had a
:09:15. > :09:22.hand in advising or consulting. I think Fiona Cunningham was forced to
:09:23. > :09:36.resign because what she did violates official government policy. It just
:09:37. > :09:46.has not been implemented yet. Will Mr Cameron succeed with Juncke?
:09:47. > :09:50.You'll agree he have to decide whether he will spirit at stopping
:09:51. > :09:54.him or accepting him as commission president and ask in return for a
:09:55. > :09:58.massive commission portfolio for Britain, something like the internal
:09:59. > :10:04.market, which they missed out on last time. It is a diplomatic
:10:05. > :10:10.decision he have to make. It is too late for that he is into deep. If he
:10:11. > :10:19.takes over the job, Cameron is left with egg on its face. From the
:10:20. > :10:21.beginning, he did not have his voice with the weight of the British
:10:22. > :10:28.Conservative Party, with ankle and Arkle, the rest of them. He is
:10:29. > :10:36.reaping -- Angela Merkel, the rest of them. He is reaping that reward.
:10:37. > :10:43.There is a lot of support within Europe. In Germany, there was a lot
:10:44. > :10:49.of opposition to David Cameron getting his way. I know him from
:10:50. > :10:53.Brussels. He is entertaining, you go to dinner with him and he smokes and
:10:54. > :10:57.drinks. He is entertaining but he is the most awful person you could
:10:58. > :11:01.think of having trying to sort of symbolise a new European Union. I
:11:02. > :11:04.remember I was there join the Luxembourg presidency in 2005 when
:11:05. > :11:07.the voters in France and the Netherlands voted no to the European
:11:08. > :11:13.constitution, what was his response to that? Let's carry on with the
:11:14. > :11:20.ratification process of this treaty that has been comprehensively
:11:21. > :11:25.rejected by voters. He did not say the final bit of that sentence. You
:11:26. > :11:29.can see why Eurosceptics want him. He has blown a raspy at all the
:11:30. > :11:31.people who have protested at the elections with the way the European
:11:32. > :11:54.Union is going. -- blown a Rasberry. This is your most popular... What
:11:55. > :12:07.has come in most recently is doing really well. This is yours. There we
:12:08. > :12:11.go. Cheers! By our people so cynical? They always go for a drink
:12:12. > :12:21.at 11am and they pull their own pipes. I see them every day. -- pts.
:12:22. > :12:25.Is there anything Mr Clegg can do is to mark the idea is to define
:12:26. > :12:29.clearly a liberal brand, or at least I hope it is. It is not good enough
:12:30. > :12:33.for us to say the Liberal Democrats challenge the Tories on this, on the
:12:34. > :12:38.fairer society, and challenge the Labour Party on a strong economy. We
:12:39. > :12:44.need to define what we stand for. That is what I call a liberal brand,
:12:45. > :12:47.assertive liberalism. I have been there myself and I think that is
:12:48. > :12:55.what he will be speaking about. Standing up for liberal values, to
:12:56. > :12:59.finding -- defining what they are. Disestablishment in getting younger
:13:00. > :13:04.people re-engage with politics. The overwhelming number are actually
:13:05. > :13:09.liberal. We only have about 20 seconds. I suggest to you it is too
:13:10. > :13:15.late. Sign up with the one principle on which he stood is Europe. -- the
:13:16. > :13:23.one principle on which he stood if Europe. That is why he has been
:13:24. > :13:28.doing so badly. He cannot get out of the hole he is in. If you fight
:13:29. > :13:32.three general elections to the left of Labour and on the third when you
:13:33. > :13:50.are in coalition with the Tories, you have got a problem. I will be
:13:51. > :14:18.back next week. Remember if it is Sunday, it is the Sunday Politics.
:14:19. > :14:20.What's the hardest thing about being a foster parent?
:14:21. > :14:23.You're constantly trying to build the elusive trust.
:14:24. > :14:26.It's like a big old question mark in your heart.
:14:27. > :14:29.I just try and do the best I can for them while they're with me
:14:30. > :14:32.Join Lorraine Pascale as she looks at stories of fostering...
:14:33. > :14:35.I wasn't happy at all, but now I am. ..including her own.
:14:36. > :14:38.Nice to know finally where I came to the world.