:00:08. > :00:11.Good morning from Manchester, where the Labour Party are gathering
:00:12. > :00:14.for their annual conference as British politics adjusts to what
:00:15. > :00:52.the rest of the UK. in Scotland might mean for
:00:53. > :00:58.Scotland's decision to vote 'no means more powers heading north
:00:59. > :01:05.But what about Home Rule for England?
:01:06. > :01:10.Independence for Scotland has been his life's work. Alex Salmond tells
:01:11. > :01:15.us why he is stepping down after losing Thursday's vote. And we've
:01:16. > :01:21.In the East Midlands: people who want to be
:01:22. > :01:24.The councils now calling for more powers from Westminster.
:01:25. > :01:27.And the report which says we have three of the most
:01:28. > :01:45.powers and more freedom to spend. But what is the next devolution step
:01:46. > :01:48.for the capital? With me, the best and brightest political panel in the
:01:49. > :01:52.business, at least that is what they pay me to say every week. Nick Watt,
:01:53. > :01:58.Helen Lewis and, this week, we have done some devolution ourselves to
:01:59. > :02:03.other areas, and we have Sam Coates from the times. The union survived,
:02:04. > :02:06.but only at the cost of more powers for the Scottish parliament and
:02:07. > :02:10.enshrining the formula that gives Scotland a privileged position when
:02:11. > :02:16.it comes to public spending, which has MPs on both sides of the Commons
:02:17. > :02:20.of in arms. The Scottish question has been answered for now. Suddenly,
:02:21. > :02:31.the English question takes centre stage, doesn't it? Absolutely. It
:02:32. > :02:34.has a grubby feel, when that vow was put to the Scottish people, that
:02:35. > :02:40.they hoped would swing the vote there was nothing about English only
:02:41. > :02:44.votes. It was unconditional? The Tory proposal did talk very core
:02:45. > :02:47.justly about looking at the proposals by a former clerk of the
:02:48. > :02:56.House of Commons that looked at this issue. That was very cautious. -
:02:57. > :02:59.cautiously. These proposals will not get through Westminster unless David
:03:00. > :03:03.Cameron addresses the English-only issue. You look at people like Chris
:03:04. > :03:06.Grayling in the Sunday Telegraph. Alistair Darling on the Andrew Marr
:03:07. > :03:10.Show said you could not have a link between what you are giving Holyrood
:03:11. > :03:20.and English-only MPs. Back on says, is welshing on the deal. -- comic he
:03:21. > :03:27.They were furious that he gave away these tax powers and inscribed the
:03:28. > :03:36.Barnett formula. They said they weren't going to vote for it. It is
:03:37. > :03:39.a shameless piece of opportunism. Now they can say that Labour are the
:03:40. > :03:43.ones that don't trust you and don't want to give you more powers. He
:03:44. > :03:47.knows it is going to be a tight timetable. The idea of getting a
:03:48. > :03:51.draft of this out by Burns Night, most people would say, given they
:03:52. > :03:54.had six years to set up Scottish parliament, the idea we will solve
:03:55. > :04:02.these huge constitutional questions in four months is absurd. But they
:04:03. > :04:08.don't care about the constitutional questions, the one they care about
:04:09. > :04:12.is English votes? There is a simple reason they won that. If you look at
:04:13. > :04:17.the MPs in England alone, the Tories have a majority of 59, an
:04:18. > :04:20.overwhelming bias, and if you strip out Wales Scotland and Northern
:04:21. > :04:23.Ireland, so this has become a partisan issue. The question is
:04:24. > :04:29.whether David Cameron can follow through on the promise. He said he
:04:30. > :04:34.would link the two Scottish powers, but it's not clear you will get
:04:35. > :04:38.either before the general election. It's not but the purpose is to cause
:04:39. > :04:45.Labour Party discomfort, and it is. You can see with date -- Ed Miliband
:04:46. > :04:47.this morning, they find it very hard to answer the question, why
:04:48. > :04:53.shouldn't there be English votes for English laws? Ed Miliband this
:04:54. > :04:58.morning was saying how London MPs get to vote on London transport and
:04:59. > :05:02.English MPs don't outside of London and it is confusing, but Labour is
:05:03. > :05:06.in a difficult position. They were before the Prime Minister made his
:05:07. > :05:10.announcement. The yes side triumphed in Glasgow, the largest city in
:05:11. > :05:13.Scotland, a Labour heartland, and the Prime Minister is saying that if
:05:14. > :05:18.Labour don't agree to this by the time of the general election, he is
:05:19. > :05:21.handing a gift to the SNP, that that would be the party that the natural
:05:22. > :05:27.Labour voters would vote for to see off the plan. It's not just Tory
:05:28. > :05:29.backbenchers. There are Labour backbenchers saying there should be
:05:30. > :05:33.in which bodes for English laws Even people in the Shadow Cabinet
:05:34. > :05:39.think it is right. The cases unarguable. If you say her chewing a
:05:40. > :05:42.partisan way, you can't sell it to the country. Ed Miliband is on
:05:43. > :05:49.course to have a majority of about 20, and you take the 40 English MPs,
:05:50. > :05:53.and he hasn't got it. This is a coalition government where the
:05:54. > :05:57.Conservatives haven't got really to be in charge, they have put in
:05:58. > :06:02.sweeping laws. Labour should probably take the bullet on this
:06:03. > :06:08.one. Let's leave it for the moment. But don't go away. As they struggle
:06:09. > :06:11.to keep the United Kingdom in one piece, David Cameron, Ed Miliband
:06:12. > :06:12.and Nick Clegg promised to keep something called the Barnett
:06:13. > :06:15.Formula. It wasn't invented in Barnet,
:06:16. > :06:18.but by man called Joel Barnett. And it's how
:06:19. > :06:20.the UK government decides how much public money to spend in Scotland,
:06:21. > :06:22.Wales and Northern Ireland. It's controversial,
:06:23. > :06:24.because it's led to public spending being typically 20% higher
:06:25. > :06:27.in Scotland than in England. Well, some English MPs
:06:28. > :06:29.aren't happy about that. I'm joined now by the
:06:30. > :06:41.Tory MP Dominic Raab. Welcome to the Sunday Politics. How
:06:42. > :06:45.can the Prime Minister scrap the Barnett Formula when he has just
:06:46. > :06:51.about to keep it on the front page of a major Scottish newspaper? If we
:06:52. > :06:55.are going to see financial devolution to Scotland, more powers
:06:56. > :06:58.of tax and spend, it's impossible not to look at the impact on the
:06:59. > :07:02.wider union, and there have been promises made to the Scottish and we
:07:03. > :07:05.should do our best to deliver them, but there have been promises made to
:07:06. > :07:09.the English, Welsh and Northern Irish. If you look at the Barnett
:07:10. > :07:13.Formula which allocates revenue across the UK, it is massively
:07:14. > :07:17.prejudicial to those other parts. We have double the number of ambulance
:07:18. > :07:21.staff and nurses compared to England. The regional breakdown is
:07:22. > :07:25.more stark with double the amount spent on social housing in Scotland
:07:26. > :07:28.than in Yorkshire and the North West and the Midlands. The Welsh do very
:07:29. > :07:33.poorly on social services for the elderly. What are we saying? That
:07:34. > :07:38.they need our children, patients and the elderly are worth less than the
:07:39. > :07:43.Scots? That's not the way to have a sustainable solution. I understand
:07:44. > :07:46.the distribution impact of the Barnett Formula, but Westminster
:07:47. > :07:52.politicians are already held in contempt by a lot of people and to
:07:53. > :07:57.rat on such a public pledge would confirm their worst fears. Your
:07:58. > :08:01.leader would have secured the union on a false prospectus. First of
:08:02. > :08:07.all, it's clear from the Ashcroft poll that the offer made in the
:08:08. > :08:09.Scottish newspaper had zero effect and if anything was
:08:10. > :08:12.counter-productive to the overall result because two thirds of swing
:08:13. > :08:17.voters in the last few days voted for independence. But we can't keep
:08:18. > :08:22.proceeding without looking at the promises made to the English. We
:08:23. > :08:26.said in the referendum that we would have English laws -- English votes
:08:27. > :08:29.on English issues. The Liberal Democrats, in their manifesto,
:08:30. > :08:33.pledged to scrap the Barnett Formula. We have to reconcile all of
:08:34. > :08:37.the promises to all parts of the UK, and Alex Salmond talks about a
:08:38. > :08:43.Westminster stitch up, but what he's trying to do is, with gross double
:08:44. > :08:48.standards, is in French stitch up in rapid time, which would be grossly
:08:49. > :08:54.unfair to the rest of the rest of UK -- is contrive stitch up. What is
:08:55. > :09:00.unfair about the current spending formula? The extra money Scotland
:09:01. > :09:05.gets from Barnet, is covered by the oil revenues it sends to London
:09:06. > :09:08.Scotland is only getting back on spending what it pays in tax. There
:09:09. > :09:15.is no analysis out there that suggests it is the same amount.
:09:16. > :09:20.Having voted to stay in the UK. Let me give you the figures. Last year
:09:21. > :09:28.revenues were 4.5 billion, and the Barnett Formula was worth 4.5
:09:29. > :09:31.billion to Scotland. It is awash. A huge amount of British taxpayer
:09:32. > :09:35.investment has gone into extracting North Sea oil, and if we move to a
:09:36. > :09:39.more federal system, we would need to look at things like the
:09:40. > :09:43.allocation of resources, but the Barnett Formula has been lambasted
:09:44. > :09:47.as a national embarrassment and grossly unfair by its Labour Party
:09:48. > :09:52.architect, Lord Barnett. So what we need is to change this mechanism so
:09:53. > :09:56.it is based on need. The irony is, when the Scots allocate Avenue to
:09:57. > :10:00.the -- revenue to their local authorities, it's done on a needs
:10:01. > :10:05.basis, and what is good for Scotland must be good for the rest of
:10:06. > :10:09.Britain. One final question. The Prime Minister is now making his
:10:10. > :10:12.promise of more home rule for Scotland conditional on English
:10:13. > :10:16.votes for English laws. Why didn't he spell out the condition when he
:10:17. > :10:20.made his bow to the Scottish people? Why has this condition been tacked
:10:21. > :10:26.on by the Prime Minister? In the heat of the referendum debate lots
:10:27. > :10:31.of things were said, but the truth is that Parliament must also look at
:10:32. > :10:35.this and make its views known, and English MPs as well. You will find
:10:36. > :10:38.that conservative as well as a lot of Labour MPs would say, we cannot
:10:39. > :10:44.just rush through a deal that is unsustainable. It has to be good for
:10:45. > :10:47.all parts of Britain. Yes, we should deliver on our promises for more
:10:48. > :10:51.devolution to Scotland, but let s deliver on promises to be English,
:10:52. > :10:55.and Northern Irish. Why are they locked out of the debate? Let's
:10:56. > :10:57.leave it there. Thank you for joining us.
:10:58. > :10:59.The man responsible for taking Scottish nationalism from
:11:00. > :11:02.the political fringes to within touching distance of victory, Alex
:11:03. > :11:04.Salmond, has a flair for dramatic announcements, and he gave us
:11:05. > :11:07.another on Friday when he revealed he's to stand
:11:08. > :11:11.Friends and foes have paid tribute to his extraordinary career.
:11:12. > :11:13.In a moment I'll be speaking to Alex Salmond,
:11:14. > :11:16.but first here's Adam Fleming with the story of the vote that broke
:11:17. > :11:38.The BBC's HQ on the Clyde, the whole place converted into a studio for
:11:39. > :11:42.Scotland's big night. You know what you need for big events, big
:11:43. > :11:45.screens, and there are loads of them here. That one is three stories
:11:46. > :11:49.high, and this is the one Jeremy Vine uses for his graphics. The
:11:50. > :11:54.other thing that is massive is the turnout in the referendum, it is
:11:55. > :11:59.enormous. It was around 85% of the electorate, that is 4 million ballot
:12:00. > :12:12.papers. First to declare Clackmannanshire. No, 19,000. 1 ,000
:12:13. > :12:17.and 36. The first Noel of the night, and there were plenty more. -- the
:12:18. > :12:21.first no vote. The better together campaigners were over the moon, like
:12:22. > :12:26.Jim Murphy, who had campaigned in 100 different towns. I don't want to
:12:27. > :12:36.sound schmaltzy, but it makes you think more of Scotland. It makes you
:12:37. > :12:39.small tree. Yes, 194,779. Around five a.m., the Yes campaign
:12:40. > :12:45.applauded as they won Scotland's biggest city, Glasgow. Dundee went
:12:46. > :12:48.their way as well, but just for areas out of 32 opted for
:12:49. > :12:53.independence. How many copies have you had? This is my second cup of
:12:54. > :12:58.tea on the morning -- how many copies. He was enjoying the
:12:59. > :13:03.refreshments on offer, but the yes campaigners were not in a happy
:13:04. > :13:07.place. We are in the bowels of one of the parts of the British
:13:08. > :13:12.establishment that, I've got to say, has probably done its job in this
:13:13. > :13:17.referendum, because I think the BBC has been critical in shoring up the
:13:18. > :13:22.establishment and have supported the no campaign as best as they could.
:13:23. > :13:27.But there was no arguing with the numbers, and by sunrise, the BBC
:13:28. > :13:33.called it. Scotland has voted no in this referendum on independence The
:13:34. > :13:36.result, in Fife, has taken the no campaign over the line and the
:13:37. > :13:43.official result of this referendum is a no. There we go, on a screen
:13:44. > :13:47.three stories high, Scotland has said no to independence. As soon as
:13:48. > :13:52.the newsprint was driving north of the border, the focus shifted south
:13:53. > :13:56.as the Prime Minister pledged more devolution for Scotland but only if
:13:57. > :13:58.it happened everywhere else as well. Just as Scotland will vote
:13:59. > :14:03.separately in the Scottish Parliament on their issues of tax,
:14:04. > :14:07.spending on welfare, so to England, as well as Wales and Northern
:14:08. > :14:12.Ireland, should be able to vote on these issues, and all this must take
:14:13. > :14:17.place in tandem with and at the same pace as the settlement for Scotland.
:14:18. > :14:26.It began to dawn on us all that we might end up doing this again. See
:14:27. > :14:29.you for an English referendum soon? Northern Ireland. There could be
:14:30. > :14:37.another one in Scotland. But not next weekend? Give me a break. There
:14:38. > :14:41.was no break for Nick, because Alex Salmond came up with one last twist,
:14:42. > :14:47.his resignation was as leader, my time is nearly over. But the
:14:48. > :14:54.Scotland, the campaign continues, and the dream shall never die. So,
:14:55. > :14:56.the referendum settled, the Constitution in flux, and a leader
:14:57. > :15:06.gone. All in a night work. Alex Salmond is to stand down as
:15:07. > :15:10.First Minister of Scotland. He shows no signs of going quietly. Last
:15:11. > :15:14.night, I spoke to the SNP leader in Aberdeen and began by asking him if
:15:15. > :15:19.it was always his intention to resign if he lost the referendum. I
:15:20. > :15:22.certainly have thought about it Andrew. But for most of the
:15:23. > :15:28.referendum campaign I thought we were going to win. So, I was...
:15:29. > :15:33.Yeah, maybe a few months back I considered it. But I only finally
:15:34. > :15:40.made up my mind on Friday lunch time. Did you agonise over the
:15:41. > :15:50.decision to stand down? I'm not really an agonising person. When you
:15:51. > :15:56.get beaten in a referendum, you have to consider standing down as a real
:15:57. > :16:00.possibility. Taking responsibility and politics has gone out of fashion
:16:01. > :16:04.but there is an aspect, if you need a campaign, and I was the leader of
:16:05. > :16:08.the Yes Campaign, and you don't win, you have to contemplate if you are
:16:09. > :16:11.the best person to lead future political campaigns. In my
:16:12. > :16:16.judgement, it was time for the SNP and the broader yes movement, the
:16:17. > :16:21.National movement of Scotland, they would benefit from new leadership.
:16:22. > :16:24.In your heart of hearts, through the campaign, as referendum on day
:16:25. > :16:30.approached, you did think you were going to win? Yes, I did. I thought
:16:31. > :16:38.for most of the last month of the campaign, we were in with a real
:16:39. > :16:42.chance. In the last week I thought we had pulled ahead. I thought the
:16:43. > :16:48.decisive aspect wasn't so much the fear mongering, the scaremongering,
:16:49. > :16:50.the kitchen sink being thrown at Scotland by orchestration from
:16:51. > :16:54.Downing Street, I thought the real thing was the pledge, the vow, the
:16:55. > :16:59.offer of something else. A lot of people that had been moving across
:17:00. > :17:03.to independence saw within that a reason to say, well, we can get
:17:04. > :17:10.something anyway without the perceived risks that were being
:17:11. > :17:17.festooned upon them. You were only five points away from your dream.
:17:18. > :17:22.You won Scotland's largest city There is now the prospect of more
:17:23. > :17:28.power. Why not stay and be an enhanced First Minister? Well, it is
:17:29. > :17:33.a good phrase. I'm not going away, though. I'm still going to be part
:17:34. > :17:36.of the political process. In Scotland, if people in Aberdeenshire
:17:37. > :17:42.wish to keep electing me, that is what I will do. But I don't have to
:17:43. > :17:46.be First Minister of Scotland, leader of the Yes Campaign, to see
:17:47. > :17:51.that achieved. The SNP is a strong and powerful leadership team. There
:17:52. > :17:55.are a number of people that would do a fantastic job as leader of the
:17:56. > :18:01.party and First Minister. I've been leader of the party for the last 24
:18:02. > :18:05.years, I think it is time to give somebody else a shot. There are many
:18:06. > :18:09.able-bodied people that will do that well. -- many able people that will
:18:10. > :18:16.do that well. I'm still part of the national movement, arguing to take
:18:17. > :18:20.this forward. I think you are right, the question, one of the irony is
:18:21. > :18:23.developing so quickly after the referendum, it might be those that
:18:24. > :18:30.lost on Thursday end up as the political winners and those that won
:18:31. > :18:34.end up as the losers. When we met just for the vote, a couple of days
:18:35. > :18:37.before the vote, you said to me that there was very little you would
:18:38. > :18:44.change about the campaign strategy. Is that still your view? Yes. There
:18:45. > :18:50.are one or two things, like any campaign, there is no such thing as
:18:51. > :18:55.a pitcher campaign. I would refer not to dwell on such things. I will
:18:56. > :18:59.leave of my book, which will be called 100 Days, coming out before
:19:00. > :19:03.Christmas. Once you read that, I will probably reveal the things I
:19:04. > :19:07.would have changed. Basically, broadly, this was an extraordinary
:19:08. > :19:11.campaign. Not just a political campaign, but a campaign involving
:19:12. > :19:16.the grassroots of Scotland in an energising, empowering way, the like
:19:17. > :19:19.of which in on of us have witnessed. It was an extraordinary phenomenon
:19:20. > :19:25.of grassroots campaigning, which carried the Yes Campaign so far
:19:26. > :19:36.almost to victory. If Rupert Murdoch put his Scottish Sun behind you
:19:37. > :19:44.would have that made the difference? If ifs and ands were pots and
:19:45. > :19:48.pans... Why did he not? I would not say that, you have form with him
:19:49. > :19:55.that I do not have. I'm not sure about that. I was very encouraged.
:19:56. > :19:59.The coverage, not in the other papers, The Times, which was
:20:00. > :20:04.extremely hostile to Scottish independence, but the coverage in
:20:05. > :20:12.the Scottish Sun was fair, balanced and we certainly got a very fair
:20:13. > :20:16.kick of the ball. In newspapers I would settle for no editorial line
:20:17. > :20:19.and just balanced coverage. We certainly got that from the Scottish
:20:20. > :20:26.Sun and that was an encouragement. I think you saw from his tweets,
:20:27. > :20:35.certainly in his heart he would have liked to have seen a move forward in
:20:36. > :20:40.Scotland and I like that. He said if you lost, that was it, referendum
:20:41. > :20:46.wise, for a generation, which he defined as about 20 years. Is that
:20:47. > :20:50.still your view? Yes, it is. It has always been my view. It's a personal
:20:51. > :20:55.view. There are always things that can change in politics. If the UK
:20:56. > :20:58.moved out of the European Union for example, that would be the sort of
:20:59. > :21:02.circumstance. Some people would argue with Westminster parties, and
:21:03. > :21:08.I'm actually not surprised that they are reneging on commitments, I am
:21:09. > :21:11.just surprised by the speed they are doing it. They seem to be totally
:21:12. > :21:17.shameless in these matters. You don't think they will meet the vow?
:21:18. > :21:21.You don't think there will keep to their vow? They are not, for that
:21:22. > :21:26.essential reason you saw developing on Friday. The Prime Minister wants
:21:27. > :21:29.to link change in Scotland to change in England. He wants to do that
:21:30. > :21:34.because he has difficulty in carrying his backbenchers on this
:21:35. > :21:37.and they are under pressure from UKIP. The Labour leadership are
:21:38. > :21:40.frightened of any changes in England which leave them without a majority
:21:41. > :21:46.in the House of Commons on English matters. I would not call it an
:21:47. > :21:52.irresistible force and immovable object, one is resistible and one is
:21:53. > :21:55.movable. They are at loggerheads. The vow, I think, was something
:21:56. > :21:57.cooked up in desperation for the last few days of the campaign. I
:21:58. > :22:04.think everybody in Scotland now engines that. -- recognises that. It
:22:05. > :22:09.was the people that were persuaded to vote no that word tricked,
:22:10. > :22:15.effectively. They are the ones that are really angry. Ed Miliband and
:22:16. > :22:21.David Cameron, if they are watching this, I would be more worried about
:22:22. > :22:28.the anger of the no voters than the opinion of the Yes Vote on that
:22:29. > :22:34.matter. If independence is on the back burner for now, what would you
:22:35. > :22:40.advise your successor's strategy for the SNP to be? I would advise him or
:22:41. > :22:47.her not to listen to advice from their predecessor. A new leader
:22:48. > :22:52.brings forward a new strategy. I think this is, for the SNP, a very
:22:53. > :22:58.favourable political time. There have been 5000 new members joined
:22:59. > :23:01.since Thursday. That is about a 25% increase in the party membership in
:23:02. > :23:14.the space of a few days. More than that, I think this is an opportunity
:23:15. > :23:17.for the SNP. But my goal is the opportunity for Scotland. I would
:23:18. > :23:24.repeat I am not retiring from politics. I'm standing down as First
:23:25. > :23:27.Minister of Scotland. On Friday coming back to the north-east of
:23:28. > :23:34.Scotland, I passed through Dundee, which voted yes by a stud --
:23:35. > :23:38.substantial margin. There was a line of a song I couldn't get out of my
:23:39. > :23:46.head, and old Jacobite song, rewritten by Robert Burns, the last
:23:47. > :23:54.line is, so, tremble falls wakes, in the midst of your glee, you've not
:23:55. > :23:57.seen the last of my bonnets and me. So you are staying a member of the
:23:58. > :24:02.Scottish Parliament, shall we see you again in the House of Commons?
:24:03. > :24:09.What does the future hold for you? Membership of Scottish Parliament is
:24:10. > :24:13.dependent on the good folk of Aberdeenshire east. If they choose
:24:14. > :24:18.to elect me, I will be delighted to serve. I've always loved being a
:24:19. > :24:21.constituency member of Parliament, I have known some front line
:24:22. > :24:25.politicians that regarded that as a chore. I'm not saying they didn t do
:24:26. > :24:31.it properly, I am sure they did But I love it. You get distilled wisdom
:24:32. > :24:34.from being a constituency member of Parliament that helps you keep your
:24:35. > :24:38.feet on the ground and have a good observation as to what matters to
:24:39. > :24:43.people. I have no difficulty with being a constituent member of
:24:44. > :24:55.Parliament. Can you promise me it will never be Lord Salmond? Yes
:24:56. > :25:02.Thanks for joining us. Great pleasure, thank you. Now, the
:25:03. > :25:06.independence referendum is over the next big electoral test is a general
:25:07. > :25:12.election. It is just over seven months away. In a moment I will be
:25:13. > :25:16.talking to Chuka Umunna, but what are the political views of the men
:25:17. > :25:21.and women fighting to win seats for the Labour Party? The Sunday
:25:22. > :25:26.Politics has commissioned an exclusive survey of the
:25:27. > :25:28.Parliamentary candidates. Six out of seven Labour candidates
:25:29. > :25:33.say that the level of public spending during their last period of
:25:34. > :25:37.office was about right. 40% of them want a Labour government to raise
:25:38. > :25:42.taxes to reduce the budget deficit. 18% favour cutting spending. On
:25:43. > :25:47.immigration, just 15% think that the number coming to Britain is too
:25:48. > :25:51.high. Only 7% say we generous to immigrants. Three in ten candidates
:25:52. > :25:55.believe the party relationship with trade unions is not close enough.
:25:56. > :26:00.Not that we spoke to think it is too close. Or than half of the
:26:01. > :26:04.candidates say want to scrap the nuclear deterrent, Trident. Four in
:26:05. > :26:09.five want to nationalise the railways. If they are after a change
:26:10. > :26:18.of leader, Yvette Cooper was their preferred choice. Chuka Umunna came
:26:19. > :26:22.in fourth. And he joins me now for the Sunday interview.
:26:23. > :26:29.Why is Labour choosing so many left-wing candidates? I don't think
:26:30. > :26:32.I accept the characterisation of candidates being left wing. I don't
:26:33. > :26:37.think your viewers see politics in terms of what is left and right I
:26:38. > :26:41.think they see it in terms of what is right and wrong. Obviously, many
:26:42. > :26:44.of the things we have been talking about, how we ensure that the next
:26:45. > :26:47.generation can do better than the last, how we raise the wages of your
:26:48. > :26:52.viewers, who are currently working very hard but not making a wage they
:26:53. > :26:56.can live off, that is what they are talking about and that is what the
:26:57. > :27:00.public will judge them on. But they want to raise taxes, they don't want
:27:01. > :27:02.to cut public spending, they want to re-nationalise the railways, they
:27:03. > :27:06.don't think there is too much immigration, they want to scrap
:27:07. > :27:11.Trident. These are all positions clearly to the left of current party
:27:12. > :27:15.policy. But that is your characterisation. If you look at our
:27:16. > :27:19.policy to increase the top rate of tax to 50% for people earning over
:27:20. > :27:21.?150,000, that is a central position. It is something that
:27:22. > :27:30.enjoys the support of the majority of the public. Trident? If you talk
:27:31. > :27:33.to the British public about immigration, yes, there are concerns
:27:34. > :27:37.about the numbers coming in and out, yes people want to see integration,
:27:38. > :27:40.yes, people want to see people putting a contribution before they
:27:41. > :27:45.take out, the people recognise, if you look at our multicultural
:27:46. > :27:48.nation, we have derived a lot of benefits from immigration. I don't
:27:49. > :27:54.think your characterisation of those positions, that is your view... It's
:27:55. > :28:00.not, it is their view. They are saying... You describe it... You
:28:01. > :28:03.described those positions as left wing positions. I am saying to you
:28:04. > :28:08.that I actually think a lot of those positions are centrist positions
:28:09. > :28:12.that would enjoy the support of the majority of your viewers. I don t
:28:13. > :28:16.think your viewers think the idea of the broadest shoulders bearing the
:28:17. > :28:21.heaviest burden in forms of tax are going to see it as a way out,
:28:22. > :28:24.radical principle. They want to scrap Trident, not party policy It
:28:25. > :28:34.isn't. I think that 73... Well, we will
:28:35. > :28:38.have 400 Parliamentary candidates at the time of the next general
:28:39. > :28:43.election, not including current MPs. This is 73 out of over 400 of them.
:28:44. > :28:49.I think we also need to treat the survey with a bit of caution. They
:28:50. > :28:52.are not representative? You are basically quoting the results of a
:28:53. > :28:56.small percentage of our Parliamentary candidates. It's
:28:57. > :29:01.pretty safe to say when you look at their views, they might be right or
:29:02. > :29:05.wrong, that's not my point, it's fairly safe to say that new Labour
:29:06. > :29:13.is dead? Again, I don't think people see things in terms of gold -- old
:29:14. > :29:16.or new Labour. We are standing at a Labour Party. We are a great
:29:17. > :29:21.country, but we have big challenges. We want to make sure that people can
:29:22. > :29:25.achieve their dreams and aspirations in this country. Too many people are
:29:26. > :29:28.not in that position. Too many people worry about the prospects of
:29:29. > :29:32.their children. Too many people do not earn a wage they can live off.
:29:33. > :29:36.Too many people are worried about the change. We have to make sure we
:29:37. > :29:39.are giving people a stake in the future. That is a Labour thing, you
:29:40. > :29:42.want to call it old or new come I don't care. It's a choice between
:29:43. > :29:53.Labour and the Conservatives in terms of who runs the next
:29:54. > :29:55.government. That one of your candidate we spoke to things that
:29:56. > :29:58.the party's relationship with the unions is to close. 30% of them
:29:59. > :30:02.think it should be closer. You have spoken to 73 out of 400 candidates.
:30:03. > :30:08.Why should the others be any different? It's a fairly
:30:09. > :30:12.representative Sample. Many people working on this set are the member
:30:13. > :30:14.of the union, the National union of journalists. People that came here
:30:15. > :30:19.to this Conference would have been brought here by trade union members.
:30:20. > :30:24.Do you think the relationship should be closer? I think it is where it
:30:25. > :30:28.should be. It should not be closer? I think that trade unions help
:30:29. > :30:34.create wealth in our country. If you look at some other success stories
:30:35. > :30:38.we are in the north-west, GM Vauxhall is there because you have
:30:39. > :30:42.trade unions working in partnership with government and local employees
:30:43. > :30:46.to make sure we kept producing cars. I'm not asking if unions are good or
:30:47. > :30:50.bad, I'm asking if Labour should be closer. You are presupposing, by the
:30:51. > :30:57.tone of your question, that our relationship is a problem. Let's
:30:58. > :31:02.turn to the English question. Why do you need a constitutional
:31:03. > :31:04.conversation where you have to discuss whether English people
:31:05. > :31:08.voting on English matters is unfair? We want to give the regions
:31:09. > :31:12.and cities in England more voice, but let's get it into perspective,
:31:13. > :31:20.we have had a situation where the Scottish people, as desired buying
:31:21. > :31:25.rich people, have to remain part of the UK -- by English people. What is
:31:26. > :31:29.the answer to the question? I don't want to get to a situation where
:31:30. > :31:31.people have voted for solidarity where you have a prime ministers
:31:32. > :31:37.talking about dividing up the UK Parliament. Let me put this point
:31:38. > :31:42.you. Most Scottish voters think it is unfair that Scottish MPs get to
:31:43. > :31:47.vote on English matters. That comes out in Scottish polls. Why don't you
:31:48. > :31:51.see it as unfair? If the Scots see it as unfair, why don't you? This is
:31:52. > :31:54.an age-old conundrum that has been around for 100 years and it's not so
:31:55. > :31:58.simple. You're talking about making a fundamental change to the British
:31:59. > :32:04.constitution on a whim. It's not just an issue, in respect of
:32:05. > :32:09.Scottish MPs. As a London MP, I can vote on matters relating to the
:32:10. > :32:13.transport of England and transport is a devolved matter in London. In
:32:14. > :32:16.Wales, there are a number of competencies that Welsh MPs can vote
:32:17. > :32:21.on and they've been devolved to them. So with all of these different
:32:22. > :32:24.votes, you will exclude different MPs? I think the solution is not
:32:25. > :32:27.necessarily to obsess about what is happening between MPs in
:32:28. > :32:32.Westminster. That turns people politics. We need to devolve more. I
:32:33. > :32:37.think we should be giving the cities and regions of England more autonomy
:32:38. > :32:41.in the way that we are doing in Scotland, but I've got to say,
:32:42. > :32:44.Andrew, it's dishonourable and in bad faith for the Prime Minister to
:32:45. > :32:49.now seek to link what he agreed before the referendum to this issue
:32:50. > :32:53.of English votes for English MPs. That is totally dishonourable and in
:32:54. > :32:58.bad faith. You have promised to devolve more tax powers to Scotland.
:32:59. > :33:01.What would they be? This is being decided at the moment. I cannot give
:33:02. > :33:06.you the exact detail of what the tax powers would be. Could you give us a
:33:07. > :33:10.rough idea? There is a White Paper being produced before November and
:33:11. > :33:16.there will be draft legislation put forward in January. Your leader has
:33:17. > :33:19.vowed that this will happen. And you haven't got a policy? You can't tell
:33:20. > :33:24.us what the tax powers will be? I can't tell you on this programme
:33:25. > :33:27.right now. But we have accepted the principle on further devolution on
:33:28. > :33:32.tax, spending on welfare and we will have further details in due course.
:33:33. > :33:36.Your leader promised to maintain the Barnett Formula for the foreseeable
:33:37. > :33:40.future. Why is that fair when it enshrines more per capita spending
:33:41. > :33:44.for Scotland than it does for Wales, which is poorer, and more than many
:33:45. > :33:50.of the poorer regions in England get? Why is that fair? We have said
:33:51. > :33:52.that in terms of looking at go - local government spending playing
:33:53. > :33:56.out in this Parliament, we have looked at what the government has
:33:57. > :33:59.done which is having already deprived communities having money
:34:00. > :34:03.taken away from them and wealthier communities are getting more. We
:34:04. > :34:09.accept that the Barnett Formula has worked well. How has it works well?
:34:10. > :34:14.There is a cross parliamentary consensus as they don't know what to
:34:15. > :34:21.do about it. Why has it works well, when Wales, clearly loses out? I'm
:34:22. > :34:23.not sure by I accept that when you look at overall underspend --
:34:24. > :34:30.government spending. It is per capita spending in Scotland, which
:34:31. > :34:34.is way ahead of per capita spending in Wales, but per capita incomes in
:34:35. > :34:39.Scotland are way ahead of Wales Why is that fair Labour politician? We
:34:40. > :34:43.have said we want to have more equitable distribution. You haven't,
:34:44. > :34:47.you have said you will keep the Barnett Formula. I'm not sure
:34:48. > :34:51.necessarily punishing Scotland is the way to go. The way that this
:34:52. > :34:55.debate is going, what message does it send to the Scottish people? I
:34:56. > :35:00.want to be clear, I am delighted with the result we have got. The
:35:01. > :35:04.unity and solidarity where maintaining across the nations of
:35:05. > :35:07.the United Kingdom. All of this separatist talk, setting up
:35:08. > :35:10.different nations of the UK against each other goes completely against
:35:11. > :35:14.what we've all been campaigning for over the last two years, and we
:35:15. > :35:17.shouldn't have any truck with it. Coming onto the announcement on the
:35:18. > :35:23.minimum wage, you would increase it by ?1 50 to take it to ?8, which
:35:24. > :35:27.would be over five years. That is all you are going to do over five
:35:28. > :35:35.years. Have you worked out how much of this increase will be clawed back
:35:36. > :35:41.in taxation and fewer benefits? Work has been done on it. How much? I
:35:42. > :35:46.can't give you an exact figure. The policy pays for itself. The way we
:35:47. > :35:49.have looked at this, we looked at the government figures, and if
:35:50. > :35:54.people are earning more, they would therefore be paying more in income
:35:55. > :35:57.tax and they will be receiving less in benefit and will pay out less in
:35:58. > :36:01.tax credits, so we are confident that this will pay for itself. I'm
:36:02. > :36:06.not asking about the pavement, I'm asking what it means for low paid
:36:07. > :36:10.workers will stop they will get an extra 30p per hour -- about the
:36:11. > :36:15.payment. How much of the 30p to they get to keep? In terms of what they
:36:16. > :36:20.get in the first instance, somebody on the minimum wage now, with our
:36:21. > :36:24.proposal, would get in the region of ?3000 a year more than they are at
:36:25. > :36:33.the moment. That is before tax and benefits. How much do they keep I
:36:34. > :36:36.cannot give you an exact figure Why don't you give me an exact figure if
:36:37. > :36:39.you've done the modelling? We are talking about some of the lowest
:36:40. > :36:42.paid people in the country, and I would suggest to you that going down
:36:43. > :36:50.this route, they would face a marginal rate of tax of 50 or 6 %
:36:51. > :36:53.and they will not keep most of this increase you are talking about. I
:36:54. > :36:58.don't accept your figures. But you haven't got any of your own. I just
:36:59. > :37:03.don't have any in my head I can give you right now. Don't you think out
:37:04. > :37:06.policies before you announce them? Of course we think our policies
:37:07. > :37:09.before we announce them but we are confident people have more in their
:37:10. > :37:12.pocket and will be better off with the changes proposed, and we are
:37:13. > :37:16.also seeking to incentivise employers to pay a living wage as
:37:17. > :37:20.well. At the end of the day, as I said, the economy is recovering
:37:21. > :37:24.great, but we know, at the moment, it's still not delivering for a huge
:37:25. > :37:27.number of your viewers and we're determined to do something about it.
:37:28. > :37:31.The status quo is not an option And even joining me. Twice in three
:37:32. > :37:35.days. You can't have too much of a good thing. I am mad. He said that,
:37:36. > :37:37.not me. It's just gone 11.35, you're
:37:38. > :37:39.watching the Sunday Politics. We say goodbye to viewers in Scotland
:37:40. > :37:42.who leave us now for Coming up here in twenty minutes,
:37:43. > :37:47.we'll be joined by John Prescott to talk about the challenge facing
:37:48. > :37:49.Labour as their conference starts In the East Midlands:
:37:50. > :38:00.the Sunday Politics where you are. A no vote in Scotland, but big
:38:01. > :38:04.changes on the way for us all. We've got all the reaction
:38:05. > :38:08.and we're at the Labour conference The most important lesson that we
:38:09. > :38:13.need to learn from Scotland is not that people are looking for some
:38:14. > :38:16.sort of top`down answers from Westminster government, I think the
:38:17. > :38:19.biggest thing that we heard loud and clear from Scotland is that people
:38:20. > :38:22.are just a bit fed up of Westminster politics, and politics as usual
:38:23. > :38:26.and not being listened to. And they've been
:38:27. > :38:27.a contentious issue in the past, but now a report claims we
:38:28. > :38:31.have three of the most polltting power stations in Europe. Is it time
:38:32. > :38:36.to give up on burning coal? Hello, I'm Marie Ashby and tackling
:38:37. > :38:39.all the burning issues of the week, my guests, the Conservative MP
:38:40. > :38:42.for Sherwood, Mark Spencer `nd Kat is the Green Party organiser
:38:43. > :38:48.for the East Midlands and w`s the party's lead candidate here
:38:49. > :38:52.in the recent European elections. First let's get your reactions
:38:53. > :38:55.on the story of the moment, the Scottish referendum and calls
:38:56. > :39:11.for more powers for our loc`l Mark, where does this Scotthsh vote
:39:12. > :39:15.leave us in the East Midlands? We should welcome that vote to stay
:39:16. > :39:21.together, it start the debate about what we want to see and how we
:39:22. > :39:25.organise local government, `nd that has been a debate that has long time
:39:26. > :39:30.coming, and I am keen to get stuck into it to change the model we
:39:31. > :39:42.currently have. Has David C`meron promised too much to Scotland? Now,
:39:43. > :39:44.he says we need a fairer system we need Scotland people in control we
:39:45. > :39:46.need to make sure that Englhsh are in control of their destiny and
:39:47. > :39:50.Scottish and control of thehr destiny. Kat, you said you were
:39:51. > :39:58.disappointed that Scotland did not vote for independence. Firstly, I
:39:59. > :40:02.respect their choice, but wd wanted a yes for independence, I understand
:40:03. > :40:08.the Scottish being frustratdd with being governed by a governmdnt that
:40:09. > :40:11.they have not really voted hn, the support for the Conservativd Party
:40:12. > :40:16.is quite limited in Scotland, but nevertheless, they are ruled by
:40:17. > :40:22.them. I hoped that this votd would open up the system of democracy that
:40:23. > :40:26.needs revising. Surely be issues that you are concerned withhn the
:40:27. > :40:31.Green Party, to climate change, that can only be tackled on a global
:40:32. > :40:37.basis, so having more countries will slow that down. I think we need to
:40:38. > :40:40.work together, for example, in the European Union. But we need to make
:40:41. > :40:45.decisions at the lowest, appropriate level, but as for the Green Party
:40:46. > :41:02.wants to promote, so we verx much welcome devolution and I agree it is
:41:03. > :41:03.long coming and we need to look at giving more power for local
:41:04. > :41:06.authorities and regional cotncils. Mark, what with these powers look
:41:07. > :41:08.like in the East Midlands? What could we visualise? It is about
:41:09. > :41:10.passing down power as low as possible. I would like to sde
:41:11. > :41:15.unitary authorities looked `t, more power for the parish and town
:41:16. > :41:18.council, so simplicity, if xou give a council the ability for gritting
:41:19. > :41:22.their own roads, they know the roads in the housing estates bettdr, they
:41:23. > :41:25.now are the challenges are the challenges after clearing the snow,
:41:26. > :41:32.so that is much better than a centralised system. You are agreeing
:41:33. > :41:36.with that. Yes, but I would like to see more planning, more powdrs for
:41:37. > :41:39.public services, schools, the NHS, even income tax, I think it would be
:41:40. > :41:47.an idea that it would be localised. More from you both in a momdnt,
:41:48. > :41:50.and the leader of one of our city councils who wants more
:41:51. > :41:52.control over transport and But let's head across to Manchester
:41:53. > :41:57.now because Labour politici`ns from the East Midlands are gathering
:41:58. > :41:59.there for their party conference. Our Political Editor,
:42:00. > :42:01.John Hess is with them and he's been talking to two senior
:42:02. > :42:04.party figures from our patch. Well, what can the voters
:42:05. > :42:07.of the East Midlands expect from Labour and Ed Miliband at their
:42:08. > :42:09.conference here in Manchestdr? The last
:42:10. > :42:10.before the general election? Joining me is Vernon Coaker
:42:11. > :42:13.and Leonie Mathers, who hopds to be the next MP for Sherwood
:42:14. > :42:16.at the next general election. The one thing about this conference
:42:17. > :42:19.is the shadow of Scotland, that referendum result is already
:42:20. > :42:24.very much like a ghost here, Vernon Coaker, when do we get Labotr's
:42:25. > :42:27.response to that result for English regional government and
:42:28. > :42:32.for more power for English cities? Firstly,
:42:33. > :42:34.this is very good news that Scotland Obviously,
:42:35. > :42:39.that has consequences across the UK But what we want to do is to take
:42:40. > :42:46.a period of time to consider We need to consult with loc`l
:42:47. > :42:50.councils and local people Cities like Nottingham crying
:42:51. > :42:58.out for more powers, it seels. This is to do with Westminster
:42:59. > :43:03.and with the regions and with You cannot rush to conclusions
:43:04. > :43:10.on this. Leonie Mathers,
:43:11. > :43:12.we have been around this cotrse with regional government before, the
:43:13. > :43:15.East Midlands had its own rdgional Yes, and the most important lesson
:43:16. > :43:22.from Scotland is not that pdople are looking for some kind of top`down
:43:23. > :43:26.answers from Westminster government. The biggest thing that we hdard loud
:43:27. > :43:29.and clear from Scotland is that people are bit fed up Westmhnster
:43:30. > :43:32.politics, politics as usual, The worst thing we could do would be
:43:33. > :43:38.to rush headlong into something that We have got to be
:43:39. > :43:50.listening to people. We will hear a lot about
:43:51. > :43:54.bread`and`butter issues at this conference, one issue has bden the
:43:55. > :44:00.minimum wage, up to ?8 per hour is that the kind of issue that would
:44:01. > :44:05.get constituencies over the line for Labour at the next general dlection?
:44:06. > :44:09.Saying we would raise the mhnimum wage to ?8 is incredible, it is the
:44:10. > :44:13.kind of thing that we are looking for, and I think people need to hear
:44:14. > :44:17.much more of that, because `t the end of the day, what people are
:44:18. > :44:22.saying to us, things are re`lly hard, really tough, we had four use
:44:23. > :44:27.of this government, and people are feeling worse off, not bettdr off.
:44:28. > :44:32.Should voters be concerned that in the magazine to the Labour delegates
:44:33. > :44:39.arriving here, the message from Ed Miliband, but of hard`working
:44:40. > :44:41.people, helping hard`working people, but no reference to
:44:42. > :44:48.deficit`reduction? Ed Milib`nd and Ed Balls have made it very clear,
:44:49. > :44:53.there are no commitments to spending that are not costed and looked at.
:44:54. > :44:57.We're here about changing the economy for better, changing the
:44:58. > :45:04.country for better, but doing it in a responsible way, and that is what
:45:05. > :45:12.you will hear in the run`up to the election. This is a key week for Ed
:45:13. > :45:15.Miliband in Manchester. Every week is a key week in trying to get into
:45:16. > :45:18.government, what we are tryhng to offer the country is governlent for
:45:19. > :45:23.all people which is in a position to the Tories that are governing for
:45:24. > :45:25.the few. Education, schools, child welfare and the issue of Scotland
:45:26. > :45:27.will be discussed here in Manchester.
:45:28. > :45:30.Thanks, John and we're joindd in the studio by the leader of Derby City
:45:31. > :45:43.We heard these powers would take time, do you want those powdrs and
:45:44. > :45:47.what powers do you want? If we look across the UK, whether Glasgow are
:45:48. > :45:53.Derby, that cannot be dealt with effectively from Westminster. For
:45:54. > :45:58.MPs, it is difficult to be truly local. Why can you not steal it from
:45:59. > :46:05.Westminster? Well, council leaders like myself, I represent thd city as
:46:06. > :46:10.a council leader, born and bred there, we are closely connected ..
:46:11. > :46:21.Mark is connected to his colmunity in Sherwood, I would say. C`ncers
:46:22. > :46:23.`` councillors. We are one of the `` councillors. We are one of the
:46:24. > :46:30.most centralised Western democracies... What exactly do you
:46:31. > :46:33.want to do with these powers? In 2006, the Secretary of Statd for
:46:34. > :46:36.community and local governmdnts David Miliband propose some double
:46:37. > :46:41.devolution proposals, and that was about taking power along with
:46:42. > :46:46.financing from the centre and giving it to local communities, cotncils,
:46:47. > :46:50.and for the councils to pass it down to local amenities and local
:46:51. > :46:54.neighbourhoods. Great progrdss was made in that, communities lhke the
:46:55. > :47:00.one eyebrow present in Derbx, they set up community forums and
:47:01. > :47:06.boards... I still do not know what you would achieve with thesd powers?
:47:07. > :47:10.We can deal with strategic powers, like dealing with congestion, social
:47:11. > :47:17.inequality, health inequality issues, bringing regeneration,
:47:18. > :47:20.driving forward... Employment. Mark, these three cities have Labour
:47:21. > :47:26.councils, would you as a Conservative MP be happy to give
:47:27. > :47:31.more powers to councils likd Ranjit's? I would like to go much
:47:32. > :47:36.lower, go to parish councils, town councils, those are the way forward,
:47:37. > :47:40.to give them responsibility for what matters to them, like cleanhng
:47:41. > :47:45.streets in your town, you could operate that with a town cotncil,
:47:46. > :47:54.and smaller details. You were a County Council, are the councils up
:47:55. > :47:57.to the job? The calibre of councils compared to MPs? There are some very
:47:58. > :48:03.good councils, some very poor councils. There are good MPs and bad
:48:04. > :48:07.MPs. Strategically, we could look at changing the model and going to
:48:08. > :48:13.unitary verities and passing more power as low down the structure as
:48:14. > :48:16.possible to the parish and the council. Should councils like Derby,
:48:17. > :48:24.Leicester, Nottingham have lore showers? Yes, I agree with Lark
:48:25. > :48:28.here. The lowest level posshble I would like to see powers. Wd would
:48:29. > :48:33.like to support the system that is bottom up. That would include those
:48:34. > :48:40.that have the opportunity to deselect somebody, I think the
:48:41. > :48:48.top`down system is not servhng this and we have lost the local needs
:48:49. > :48:53.being met. If we talk about councils being up to the job, planning,
:48:54. > :48:59.economic development could they deal with that? Absolutely. They knew the
:49:00. > :49:02.needs of the community, thex know the facilities and the businesses. I
:49:03. > :49:08.would give far more power on this level. You have got to work together
:49:09. > :49:13.on some of the more strateghc decisions. They work at a hhgh
:49:14. > :49:17.level, like development of the 453 only happened with Nottingh`m
:49:18. > :49:22.working with Derby and with coming together and lobbying government to
:49:23. > :49:25.get that cash. I have never heard of a council or politician not wanting
:49:26. > :49:29.more powers, do people want these powers? Is there evidence that
:49:30. > :49:38.working people want you to have more power in the first place? The
:49:39. > :49:43.previous government... The previous government introduced radic`l issues
:49:44. > :49:46.on devolution, but without hncreased powers and without increased
:49:47. > :49:52.financing, it becomes a talking shop. It has been very frustrating
:49:53. > :49:58.as a counsellor that this government has spent in its fifth term, its
:49:59. > :50:02.fifth year in term of officd... In Nottingham, they voted against a
:50:03. > :50:07.city mayor, Leicester went for one, so people have said they don't want
:50:08. > :50:11.more powers locally. The whole of Hucknall town, there was a rumour
:50:12. > :50:14.that the city council wanted to take over, and the majority of pdople
:50:15. > :50:17.came back and said we would rather have a Hucknall town council that
:50:18. > :50:21.would be under the control of the County Council and Ashfield district
:50:22. > :50:38.Council. People are thirsty for that power to go as low as possible. When
:50:39. > :50:41.I talked to be local residents with community walkabouts, there is a
:50:42. > :50:42.real appetite for the residdnts to want more say in running local
:50:43. > :50:44.services and that is the future Last word on this from Consdrvative
:50:45. > :50:47.councillor for Bingham, Francis Purdue`Horan who twdeted me
:50:48. > :50:50.yesterday to say he wishes to confirm categorically that he has no
:50:51. > :50:52.immediate plans to stand for the post of First Minister
:50:53. > :50:54.of the East Midlands. And tomorrow night on BBC One,
:50:55. > :50:58.Inside Out will be taking a closer look at how devolution
:50:59. > :51:01.would work in the East Midl`nds I'll be reporting from Rutl`nd
:51:02. > :51:03.and from East Midlands Airport. That's BBC One,
:51:04. > :51:05.tomorrow night at 7.30. Let's take a look
:51:06. > :51:07.at some environmental issues now and protestors are gathering all
:51:08. > :51:10.over the world today to call Meanwhile,
:51:11. > :51:13.here in the East Midlands, ` report claims we have three of the worst
:51:14. > :51:16.polluting power stations in Europe. The coal`fired power stations
:51:17. > :51:18.at Ratcliffe on Soar, Markh`m and West Burton are a seriots danger
:51:19. > :51:21.to health and should be closed down immediately according to a
:51:22. > :51:24.coalition of environmental groups. But can we afford to shut down our
:51:25. > :51:27.coal`fired power stations and what's It is a well`known landmark
:51:28. > :51:33.in the East Midlands. Ratcliffe on Soar is one
:51:34. > :51:36.of three coal`fired power stations But it is the dirtiest form
:51:37. > :51:41.of energy and has long been On this occasion,
:51:42. > :51:46.hundreds of protesters pulldd down Now Nottinghamshire's three power
:51:47. > :51:52.stations have been named and shamed by environmental groups
:51:53. > :51:59.called Europe's Dirty 30. The report found that coal`fired
:52:00. > :52:02.power stations produced just under a third
:52:03. > :52:05.of the UK electricity supplx last year, but was responsible for nearly
:52:06. > :52:10.two thirds of carbon emissions. It claims that the resulting air
:52:11. > :52:14.pollution causes 1,600 deaths per year and cheap coal has meant
:52:15. > :52:21.output has gone up and not down Environmentalists want
:52:22. > :52:24.the old coal`fired power st`tions Five have closed
:52:25. > :52:29.in the last two years and more are Even someone like John Unwin,
:52:30. > :52:36.once a miner, now working at Sibson Discovery Centre says
:52:37. > :52:40.the writing is on the wall. Coal is a fossil fuel at thd end
:52:41. > :52:44.of the day. Try as you can, with the best of
:52:45. > :52:47.energy available, you're just going It is time to replace it, btt it
:52:48. > :52:55.will take time to get peopld used to EDF which operates two of the three
:52:56. > :53:00.power stations in Nottinghalshire says that both stations meet current
:53:01. > :53:05.European limits on air emissions. In 2016,
:53:06. > :53:08.the Industrial Emissions Directive will require existing plans to
:53:09. > :53:13.comply with new emissions lhmits. This will require the plants to
:53:14. > :53:20.be fitted with new technology. Carbon taxes on energy
:53:21. > :53:23.companies like EDF and E.ON are designed to encourage them to
:53:24. > :53:27.invest in clean power, but LPs from the three major parties and
:53:28. > :53:31.business leaders want the government to ease up on charges to give the
:53:32. > :53:39.economy a better chance to recover. We can talk it through
:53:40. > :53:41.because the job is already done .. Barry Randall runs a landsc`ping
:53:42. > :53:47.gardening company in Leicestershire. He thinks that a freeze
:53:48. > :53:51.on green taxes might slow High heating bills nearly ptt him
:53:52. > :53:56.out of business Inevitably, the bigger comp`nies
:53:57. > :54:02.are the bigger polluters, they are It will just filter down
:54:03. > :54:07.and everyone will just be affected I don't think there is any way
:54:08. > :54:12.around that The government is committed to
:54:13. > :54:17.reducing carbon emissions bx 20 0. It says it says it is well
:54:18. > :54:20.on the way to meeting that target. Environmentalists say that progress
:54:21. > :54:24.is too slow, but there is growing pressure
:54:25. > :54:27.for a rethink on carbon taxds by those who see them as too hhgh and a
:54:28. > :54:44.threat to the UK's competithveness. Kat, on the face of it, it hs a
:54:45. > :54:48.worrying report, but we heard the businessmen in that report saying
:54:49. > :54:53.supporting green energy means prices would go up? This is incorrdct, if
:54:54. > :54:57.we face climate change, this is a huge catastrophe. We, our children,
:54:58. > :55:02.our grandchildren will have to face this. That would be very costly not
:55:03. > :55:09.only in money terms but in human lives, actually, so we cannot afford
:55:10. > :55:12.to wait any longer. Plus looking economically in areas where they
:55:13. > :55:18.have invested greatly instantaneous energies, it has created a lot of
:55:19. > :55:23.jobs. Solar energy has prodtced more jobs than the entire fossil fuel
:55:24. > :55:28.industry together, so it makes economic sense also. Do you say
:55:29. > :55:32.alternative energy like sol`r and wind power are not more expdnsive or
:55:33. > :55:37.they are more expensive? Thdy might be more expensive in the short`term
:55:38. > :55:42.but in the long term we had to do something. Some reports say
:55:43. > :55:45.alternative energy could be twice as expensive. That is incorrect, we
:55:46. > :55:53.have seen it in Germany and the price increase in Germany w`s more
:55:54. > :55:59.down to the poor management. There is a lot of scaremongering. Mark,
:56:00. > :56:02.all scare talk? It is ironic being lectured by somebody from Gdrmany
:56:03. > :56:08.about coal`fired power stathons when they are building more and faster
:56:09. > :56:13.than we are! We had to get the balance right, we cannot give
:56:14. > :56:17.competitors in Europe and advantage with cheaper energy, we havd to take
:56:18. > :56:19.the rest of Europe with this if we want to get greener, but thd
:56:20. > :56:23.government is responsible for keeping the lights on and if we
:56:24. > :56:28.abandoned the coal`fired power stations, the lights would go out.
:56:29. > :56:34.In Germany they have a long`term plan to go away from coal, so in
:56:35. > :56:42.Germany, they have managed. In 2012... Why are they building more
:56:43. > :56:45.coal`fired power stations? Because they are phasing out nuclear, it is
:56:46. > :56:48.a short`term plan, and I do not agree with it, however, the
:56:49. > :56:55.long`term plan is to move away from coal. In the renewables sector, they
:56:56. > :57:01.have produced in 2012, five times as much energy than are 16 nuclear
:57:02. > :57:05.power stations combined. Thdse are real figures that are managdable. If
:57:06. > :57:09.you look at the Danes, they went down the route of wind power and
:57:10. > :57:34.increase the edge of coal they burnt. They had to use coal in order
:57:35. > :57:37.to plug the gaps when the whnds didn't blow. We have to get that
:57:38. > :57:39.energy balance back. Mark, xou are on the government's green w`tchdog,
:57:40. > :57:42.what does it do? You always said you would be the greenest ever, how is
:57:43. > :57:45.it going? We're making good progress in reducing carbon emissions. We are
:57:46. > :57:47.in a race with the rest of the world. If you are charging over the
:57:48. > :57:50.hill and leaving everyone bdhind you, all that you do is you export
:57:51. > :57:55.your carbon to another country. Is fracking be answered? Now, ht is
:57:56. > :57:59.not. We will run out of fossil fuels, sooner or later, that is a
:58:00. > :58:03.fact. You need to invest in renewable energy, and to sax that we
:58:04. > :58:09.cannot do it too fast, for 30 years, we have said this needs to happen,
:58:10. > :58:14.30 years, and our grandchildren we owe it to them, climate change is
:58:15. > :58:24.happening, that is a fact. Will this be a big issue in the next general
:58:25. > :58:30.election? Carbon capture is coming, it would be a big issue. Thd other
:58:31. > :58:32.thing is, you mentioned that renewables may come and go,
:58:33. > :58:36.depending on the weather, for example, you mentioned Denm`rk, we
:58:37. > :58:40.have got a system, a Europe`n wide grid for you can work with the
:58:41. > :58:49.renewables in order to manage that if it is sunny in Spain and windy
:58:50. > :58:52.here, we can equally benefit from it, so we need to work together Do
:58:53. > :58:54.think that Paris will see the lights go out to help London? ! We have to
:58:55. > :58:56.leave that there are. Time for a round`up of some
:58:57. > :58:59.of the other political storhes in the East Midlands this wdek,
:59:00. > :59:01.here's Rob Pittam, with 60 Seconds. A company criticised
:59:02. > :59:04.for how it takes patients to and from hospital in the
:59:05. > :59:06.East Midlands says improvemdnts to Arriva Transport Solutions carries
:59:07. > :59:09.nonemergency patients in Nottinghamshire,
:59:10. > :59:10.Leicestershire and Rutland. The Care Quality Commission says
:59:11. > :59:13.the service fails in three of five areas, but the company says it has
:59:14. > :59:20.now increased staff and vehhcles. Labour's East Midlands MP Glenis
:59:21. > :59:22.Wilmott is leading Europe's moves to clamp down on scandals involving
:59:23. > :59:26.medical devices. Brussels wants new legislathon
:59:27. > :59:29.after scares involving breast The Nottinghamshire Police `nd
:59:30. > :59:34.Crime Commissioner Paddy Tipping wants an independent review
:59:35. > :59:38.of allegations of abuse The police are investigating claims
:59:39. > :59:43.of physical and sexual abusd And Ashfield in Nottinghamshire
:59:44. > :59:49.looks the best place to get yours The district council there has won
:59:50. > :59:54.a seventh Gold award from the RSPCA for its dedication to reuniting lost
:59:55. > :00:11.pooches with their owners. One council that doesn't nedd powers
:00:12. > :00:15.to get the job done! Kat, there is a general election coming up, will you
:00:16. > :00:20.be standing as an MP and whdre? I hope to, at the moment Green Party
:00:21. > :00:25.members are voting on it, so it is up to them. I had to stand hn
:00:26. > :00:28.Nottingham East or Nottingh`m North. There is a slight hitch, thd fact
:00:29. > :00:46.you were born in Germany and do not have a UK passport, that is causing
:00:47. > :00:48.some problems? It is currently with the Home Office, I hope that my
:00:49. > :00:51.citizenship comes through in time, I meet the requirement, I havd litter
:00:52. > :00:53.for 15 years. It is strange that she cannot stand? and stand, in Sherwood
:00:54. > :00:57.against the Conservative mayor's policy No
:00:58. > :01:05.more time I'm afraid. Andrew, back to you.
:01:06. > :01:08.Welcome back the to Labour conference, where we're joined
:01:09. > :01:11.by the latest hot new stand-up comedian on the Manchester circuit.
:01:12. > :01:17.I speak of course of former Deputy Prime Minister John Prescott.
:01:18. > :01:18.In between giving tub-thumping speeches to rally
:01:19. > :01:21.the party faithful this week, he's appearing at the Comedy Store.
:01:22. > :01:25.He was also of course the man behind the last attempt to solve
:01:26. > :01:36.Our political panel is with me as well. John, we have got Scottish
:01:37. > :01:39.votes for Scottish laws, and more Scottish votes for Scottish laws,
:01:40. > :01:44.why not English votes for English laws? That's an English parliament
:01:45. > :01:48.in a major constitutional change and that is what has started. I
:01:49. > :01:52.certainly don't agree with that I campaign for powers to be given to
:01:53. > :01:56.the regions. When I first tested it in the Northeast, I lost. Why?
:01:57. > :02:00.Because they said they were not the same powers you are giving to
:02:01. > :02:08.Scotland. So, basically, we must do that, decentralised, not just with a
:02:09. > :02:11.Westminster Parliament. As you know, in 32 years I produce the
:02:12. > :02:16.alternative. You've kept that for 32 years? I took it off my shelf and
:02:17. > :02:22.everybody was talking about it now, but they weren't in 1982. This was
:02:23. > :02:28.my five plan. 200 meetings all around the country -- five-year
:02:29. > :02:32.plan. You wrote this morning, not 35 years ago, that this was a plot to
:02:33. > :02:36.turn Westminster into a Tory dominated English parliament. But if
:02:37. > :02:41.that is how England had voted, it's not a plot, it's democracy. You can
:02:42. > :02:45.get reform in a more federal structure, and even English
:02:46. > :02:48.parliament does fit into the federal structure and that is what the
:02:49. > :02:53.Liberals say, but you need a fairer representation. It might be quite
:02:54. > :02:57.radical, and we could get rid of the Lord's, and have representation in
:02:58. > :03:04.the region there. It can't be done in two weeks. Alex Salmond, he's
:03:05. > :03:07.assuming he has been sold out, and it was less than a week ago they
:03:08. > :03:12.remain the announcement. We have to get it carried out will stop but
:03:13. > :03:17.don't connect it to the English parliament that fixes it in their
:03:18. > :03:20.favour. It may be pretty low politics from David Cameron to come
:03:21. > :03:27.up with something that was not in the vowel -- a bow on the front page
:03:28. > :03:29.of the daily record, but if they do not agree with what he said at the
:03:30. > :03:34.time of the general election, he will say two in which voters, if you
:03:35. > :03:37.want real protection in England vote Conservative, and if you want
:03:38. > :03:41.Scottish MPs deciding on your level of taxation, vote Labour. He is
:03:42. > :03:45.scared to death of UKIP may have been saying it for a while. In the
:03:46. > :03:50.constitutional changes have to see what is fair and equitable, the same
:03:51. > :03:53.with the Barnett fallen -- formula. But what you have to do is get a
:03:54. > :03:57.fair system. It takes time to discuss it. I was doing a 32 years
:03:58. > :04:01.ago and nobody wanted to know. We had better start a debate, and don't
:04:02. > :04:07.mixed up the constitutional type of English parliament with what we are
:04:08. > :04:13.promising in Scotland. It is about trust and politics. So the turnout
:04:14. > :04:17.of the north-east regional assembly and they voted against it. The
:04:18. > :04:20.turnout that the police and crime commissioners was low. How'd you get
:04:21. > :04:24.people interested in the process and it doesn't feel like a conversation
:04:25. > :04:27.in smoky rooms and you go back to British people and tell them what
:04:28. > :04:32.you decided? If you look at the turnout in Scotland whether they
:04:33. > :04:35.were interested in, now it is phenomenally interesting. It is
:04:36. > :04:39.about real power, having real influence. What they said to me in
:04:40. > :04:42.the north-east, they said we know you have an idea for devolution and
:04:43. > :04:46.you will give us assemblies but it doesn't have the power of Scotland,
:04:47. > :04:49.but now we are talking about equity, similar distribution of
:04:50. > :04:53.power and similar resources. The English people are entitled to that.
:04:54. > :04:58.They have been robbed of it for too long. Labour has long struggled with
:04:59. > :05:02.what it should do over devolving power to the regions and you came up
:05:03. > :05:06.with regional assemblies. Ed Miliband has a different idea of
:05:07. > :05:10.city regions. Aren't they the same idea of yours but without a
:05:11. > :05:13.democratic accountability? Can we really trust the greater region of
:05:14. > :05:18.Manchester or Birmingham to deliver if there is not the same kind of
:05:19. > :05:23.democratic link with the people I live in whole, and it stops on the
:05:24. > :05:28.boundary of the Pennines -- the city of Hull. We have city regions from
:05:29. > :05:32.Labour because I failed in the north-east to get the assemblies in,
:05:33. > :05:36.and now we have to look at those options. Do you work through city
:05:37. > :05:39.regions? Mainly in the north, I might say. Even the federal
:05:40. > :05:42.structure they talk about my be in the North or Midlands with
:05:43. > :05:47.Birmingham, but there are a number of options and that is where I
:05:48. > :05:51.believe that what the White Paper should do is to put those options
:05:52. > :05:55.in. Instead of having to put them together, state what you want to do
:05:56. > :05:58.in the English regions. Leave it to the legislation, which is what will
:05:59. > :06:03.happen with the Scottish, and once you've agreed it, you do it after.
:06:04. > :06:06.You have to start the radical debate about giving the English regions,
:06:07. > :06:11.not centralised in London, but decentralised. Do you need to have a
:06:12. > :06:16.separate English parliament? Wouldn't it just satisfy the English
:06:17. > :06:21.if you simply said to MPs, when it's in English matter in the House of
:06:22. > :06:24.Commons, stop interfering? I would disagree with that. I would say put
:06:25. > :06:29.the option in the White Paper. The White Paper seems to be talking
:06:30. > :06:32.about Scotland. If you don't put the commitments to what you want to do
:06:33. > :06:37.with the English regions, people might say I'm not supporting that.
:06:38. > :06:41.Put the framework in the White Paper, but a different timetable.
:06:42. > :06:45.Devolution in this country has been to a different timetable, whether
:06:46. > :06:48.it's Wales, Northern Ireland. Start looking fundamentally at it and the
:06:49. > :06:55.Labour Party should be leading the debate. Let's come the no campaign
:06:56. > :07:00.lost Glasgow. The cradle of British socialism. -- let's come to
:07:01. > :07:03.something that happened with the referendum as the no campaign lost
:07:04. > :07:08.Glasgow. Is it a sign that the Labour Party are finding it hard to
:07:09. > :07:12.what -- hold on to their traditional working class vote question mark its
:07:13. > :07:16.different in Manchester. They would say it is a message about
:07:17. > :07:25.decentralisation. If we change the message a bit maybe. We have been
:07:26. > :07:28.thinking that now it is that either the Labour Party to recognise it is
:07:29. > :07:32.not the old message and old areas that will win it. I remember
:07:33. > :07:37.covering the 1997 referendum in Scotland and you gave a tub thumping
:07:38. > :07:40.speech in a big hall in Hamilton and you really connected. Obviously it
:07:41. > :07:44.was a different referendum because that was about a parliament, not
:07:45. > :07:48.independence and Alex Salmond was on your side, but you, and Ingush MP,
:07:49. > :07:53.an English minister, connected to the core Labour voters in a way that
:07:54. > :08:01.Ed Miliband is failing to do -- an English MP. You make a fair point.
:08:02. > :08:08.In the big rally, I had to point out I was Welsh. Enough of this. Get on
:08:09. > :08:13.with it. What I was saying there was that I supported you, as I did for
:08:14. > :08:17.30 odd years when Labour MPs were against any thinker Scotland. I
:08:18. > :08:20.support you, but I expect you to come in with your Scottish MPs and
:08:21. > :08:24.make sure the English get their share of the powers and resources
:08:25. > :08:30.and that is what that speech was about, and by God, it's as relevant
:08:31. > :08:35.today as it was then. I haven't got any Scottish MPs, I live in
:08:36. > :08:42.Knightsbridge. Did you get the vote? No. What would you have done? I
:08:43. > :08:49.can't tell you. You would have voted yes, come on. I'm interested. What
:08:50. > :08:56.do you want to hear from the speech by Ed Miliband? People are wondering
:08:57. > :08:59.about where Labour stands. There are many issues we have flown around,
:09:00. > :09:06.and we've done the discussion just now. What he has got to do where he
:09:07. > :09:11.started off on the minimum wage You are trying to deal with those left
:09:12. > :09:14.behind. Those are the bottom. That is the Labour message. The National
:09:15. > :09:18.Health Service is our creation and we have to say it will be saved If
:09:19. > :09:21.you can save all of these bankers with all the money and say you
:09:22. > :09:27.haven't got the money for the NHS, say where we stand. That will be the
:09:28. > :09:30.priority. The third one, housing. I have had a revolutionary idea that
:09:31. > :09:34.you can buy a house without a deposit and without the interest or
:09:35. > :09:39.paying the stamp duty, and you buy it by rent. The government gives
:09:40. > :09:44.?150 billion guaranteed housing for up to 600,000. Get down to ordinary
:09:45. > :09:47.people who can use their rent to buy the house. It's happening in the
:09:48. > :09:50.north-east. Why are they not listening to you? You have said more
:09:51. > :09:55.to connect with ordinary people in three minutes than we will probably
:09:56. > :09:59.hear in an hour. I've been telling them, made, and we have a commission
:10:00. > :10:05.coming out. People don't want commissions, they want action. I
:10:06. > :10:09.say, I know what we do, housing health, the people. That is our
:10:10. > :10:13.language. That is why we are Labour. That a lot of people run away. I
:10:14. > :10:17.think in Glasgow, they wondered about that. If you turn up on the
:10:18. > :10:21.same three platforms, and I know it's a critical thing to say, they
:10:22. > :10:27.think in Scotland it is a coalition. I don't like coalitions. It looks
:10:28. > :10:31.like a coalition, didn't it? Maybe it was saved because Rupert Murdoch
:10:32. > :10:37.started the The Times about the polls and he couldn't even get the
:10:38. > :10:41.sun to say that they wanted. We haven't got time. I wondered how
:10:42. > :10:47.long it would take is to get to repot Murdoch. You beat the record.
:10:48. > :10:50.-- to Rupert Murdoch. Labour is quite behind on the economy, and
:10:51. > :10:54.people are looking at Labour, trying to work out if they can trust you to
:10:55. > :11:00.the stewards of the economy given 2010. Under Labour 's plans there is
:11:01. > :11:05.20 billion of cuts to make in the next Parliament. Will we hear
:11:06. > :11:10.anything about that? It is about the proportion of debt to GDP. I know it
:11:11. > :11:15.sounds historic, but our debt when we came in in 1997 was a proportion
:11:16. > :11:22.of GDP, and you must know this, and that was less than Thatcher's. Why
:11:23. > :11:25.did we get done on debt? You guys run around saying a lot about it,
:11:26. > :11:32.but the fact is it was worse under Thatcher. Thatcher is now seen as a
:11:33. > :11:36.hero. If you look at the debt, it is still a problem. Gordon Brown did an
:11:37. > :11:40.awful lot to solve those problems, but they were still left with us.
:11:41. > :11:44.What we have to have is a sensible discussion like we had on devolution
:11:45. > :11:48.and now we are talking about finances. Let's look at the public
:11:49. > :11:51.sector debt and the price we pay. We need to be putting the record
:11:52. > :11:55.straight. The problem is they tell me, John, we have to look to the
:11:56. > :11:58.future not the past. We are getting screwed on the past and we have to
:11:59. > :12:05.change it and perhaps Gordon Brown coming in could do something.
:12:06. > :12:09.Finishing on the future, when we did a poll of the Labour candidates you
:12:10. > :12:13.were watching on the big screen when it came up that their favourite
:12:14. > :12:24.to succeed Ed Miliband was Yvette Cooper, why did you shout no! That
:12:25. > :12:26.is alive. -- alive. -- that is not true. I know resistance is not
:12:27. > :12:43.strong. What did that mean? You can't get away with anything at
:12:44. > :12:48.a Conference, John. I was dropping comments them to pick up everywhere,
:12:49. > :12:54.I do not wear -- nowhere they got that one from. Good to have you
:12:55. > :12:58.back. Round of applause for former Deputy Prime Minister. That's it for
:12:59. > :13:00.today. Don't applaud them, they are useless.
:13:01. > :13:05.my guests. I'll be back here at Labour conference for the Daily
:13:06. > :13:09.11:30am tomorrow when we'll bring you live coverage of the speech by
:13:10. > :13:14.We're here all week, and next Sunday you can find us in Birmingham for
:13:15. > :13:22.Remember if it's Sunday, it's the Sunday Politics.